Author Topic: So You Want To Be The Townest Mafia (Thread 1) (Read 127359 times)

Lexicat · « **Reply #90 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:00:12 PM »

/confirm

Reading.

I have no name · « **Reply #91 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:01:10 PM »

I'm always so confused on D1...and coming back from dinner to box discussion sure didn't help.

I really want to know what's in the box. Then again I'm pretty cautious so I definitely don't want to have it at the deadline. Affinity, have you received any information from a mod about the box?

rawr, why do you want the box? Are you pulling a repeat of what you did Midnight Crew Mafia D1, brave the unknown?

Quote from: Serela on March 31, 2012, 10:52:34 PM

I'm gonna go make a sandwich :]

I just had one.

Quote from: Omba on March 31, 2012, 10:16:31 PM

You win a free Minoriko

I don't want a harvest goddess. I want the adorable little ancient kid who's actually older than the snake goddess.

-cuts-

Quote from: BT on March 31, 2012, 10:54:49 PM

Hi there! You kind of disappeared. Nothing to add to the discussion?

I had dinner and then typed this up.

Omba · « **Reply #92 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:05:07 PM »

Quote from: Conqueror on March 31, 2012, 10:44:12 PM

Omba, what do you think should be done if you think the box is a bomb?

I think having each player that gets it pass it to the player they think is the most scummy would be the best solution. The actual outcome of who ends up with the box will essentially be random, but since we don't know what it actually does, that's fine. We're treating it as if it definitely were a bomb, though, so if the last person actually blows up, or at some later point gets lynched or NKed, every throw of the packet will be treated as a vote with intent to lynch (with the receiving person's alignment revealed).
After all, precisely the fact that there's a chance of the player it gets thrown to not showing up before the deadline means that at least every throw after the 24 hour mark has passed has a definite possibility of actually killing the target. Which also means if scum were to try to off someone with the box, they would be forced to either directly dirty their hands (if the thing does blows up) or have someone they'd want to avoid killing if it happens to do something else (since if they then kill him at some later point, they'd still have made what is in essence a lynch vote on someone that then flips town).

--cut 6 times

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #93 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:11:00 PM »

Quote from: Conqueror on March 31, 2012, 10:44:12 PM

Pretty sure the point of this discussion is so that we can take care of what do with the thing ASAP. I like this discussion; it's giving me some potential town reads. ^_^/

Well, like I said, whoever is holding it chucks it at the last second. It's not like box passing can be done privately, so we can all see what happens with it and blame can be appropriated appropriately.
Meanwhile, nobody provides reads on anyone. How am I supposed to find scum in this box-centric environment?

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #94 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:12:10 PM »

Speaking of which. I need to contradict myself after telling you all to stop talking about the box.

@Mod: Is it possible to pass the box to Shadoweh?

Only players may receive Shadoweh's thoughtful present.

Serela · « **Reply #95 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:13:24 PM »

Quote

Which also means if scum were to try to off someone with the box, they would be forced to either directly dirty their hands (if the thing does blows up) or have someone they'd want to avoid killing if it happens to do something else (since if they then kill him at some later point, they'd still have made what is in essence a lynch vote on someone that then flips town).

No Omba, because as long as they can justify their decision they would be fine. Townies are perfectly capable of hitting town with it, after all.

Making the chance it ever lands in scum hands as small as possible is the best way, because they can definitely use it to their advantage and totally get away with it.

Lexicat · « **Reply #96 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:29:21 PM »

Before I get into anything about reads, I want to say something about the box. I'm going to assume the box is a bomb that will kill the holder.

I would like people to avoid focusing on this box as a crutch to replace scumhunting. There has been a lot of talk about what to do with the box in the first few pages, and not a lot else. Scum will love to pounce on this to suggest something and appear townie. All box discussion should be treated as a nulltell for this reason.

That said, here we go:

The mechanism of the box should work as follows, one of two ways:

1)We give the person we think is the most townie the box, and let them cast the hammer vote. They can pass the box and hammer our lynch at the same time, which should in theory prevent any last minute box passing confusion.

2) We determine our lynch, and we pass them the box. They are given the right to self-hammer, and pass the box to someone they think is scum at the same time. If they're town, it works like a vengeful townie. If they're scum... we lynched a scum bag so I think the risk is worth it.

So, I'd like to hear opinions on these two ideas, but beyond that box talk should be treated null. As a matter of fact, the only scumtell I will tolerate surrounding the box is people saying that we should use it as an "extra lynch", since I see that as a scum motivated move to try and control where the box goes, instead of having it delegated.

Dr Rawr · « **Reply #97 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:33:13 PM »

I was being totally serious about wanting the box. Why? because it may contain firetrucks, candy, or even minoriko. If affinity doesnt pass it to me, i will be VERY disappointed.

Serela who cares who you want to hold the box? It doesnt matter unless you have the box.

Also cut

What, so you want to cut our day to 48 hours? Both those options dont sounds very good. Neither of them involve me getting the box....

Lexicat · « **Reply #98 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:36:00 PM »

Er, upon inspection it appears that the Box Deadline is shorter than the day deadline.

I still think the two options presented are the best ones. It eliminates confusion and gives a definite pass, instead of this Hot Potatoe nonsense that will clearly go awry.. Anyone who thinks a complex solution involving multiple passes will work is deluding themseleves, since scum will assuredly screw it up to avoid getting killed.

Dr Rawr · « **Reply #99 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:36:58 PM »

Why would you want to cut the day to 48hours though?

Serela · « **Reply #100 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:37:26 PM »

I think both of those ideas are bleh because we lose 44 hours out of D1 and do not get to use results of box flip and reactions to such to help choose the d1 lynch.

~~DrRawr stop being ridiculous ugh.~~ Because it'd be nice if a bunch of people could agree on which townie to give the box at some point instead of it being 100% up to Affinity (or whoever he passes it to, etc).

Also LLD got it half-right and half-wrong. Hot Potato is bad, cutting the day short is also bad for aforementioned reasons, if whoever can just pass it to someone who is not present a minute or two before the deadline then it should be fine. Even scum have things they have to do IRL sometimes.

Shadoweh · « **Reply #101 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:41:34 PM »

RVS Makes Second Votecounts Hard

Shadoweh (1): Dormio
Affinity (1): Dr. Rawr
Dormio (1): Omba
Kitten4u (2): Chaore, capt.h
Dr. Rawr (1): I have no name
capt.h (2) : Action Dan, Serela
Chaore: (0)
Omba (1): Conqueror
I have no name (1): BT

Not voting: Mr. Bob, Lady Lambdadelta, Dorian G, Affinity, Kitten4u

Holding the Box: Affinity

With 15 alive, it takes 8 to lynch.
There are 92 hours remaining.
Day End Countdown

Box Timer: 44:33:29
Box Timer Countdown

Serela · « **Reply #102 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:43:12 PM »

They also don't work at all because this game has a Twilight Phase.

Lexicat · « **Reply #103 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:43:31 PM »

Quote from: ActionDan on March 31, 2012, 08:29:58 PM

##Vote: Capt.h

It's about time you rolled scum. +confirm posts seem nervous.

About Box: Don't pass it yet. Leave it with affinity at least for a while. the box is most likely either turns someone into a bomb or blows up in the person's face. (Or it's some modified SK daykill power shamelessly stolen from EPICMAFIA)

On that note. I suggest giving it to the scummiest person at the time of countdown. /2cents

I have a few issues with this post.

Firstly, the appeal to probability vote compounded with a feeble attempt at justifying it to be something more than that. What about Capt.H's confirm post appeared nervous to you Dan?

Secondly, while I've stated that box speculation is inherently null, (and obviously I find the vote/reasoning to be the main suspicious part of this post), the last line of your post has me a little on edge. How do we determine the "scummiest" player in your eyes? To different people will come different "scummiest" players. I only see this as an attempt to cause discord, with people arguing over who to give the box two, and spending less time scumhunting.

Can you explain how as a group, we can determine the "scummiest" player? Further, isn't that the intent behind a lynch mechanic?

Lexicat · « **Reply #104 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:43:57 PM »

Mod: Can players pass the box in Twilight phase?

Yes.

Kitten4u · « **Reply #105 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:51:34 PM »

I'm of the opinion that the box will explode in the holder's face and kill them. Using it as a second lynch would be really nice if we could get the town organized enough in time. A few games have had 48 hour D1s so I don't see why we couldn't pull it off. Thinking Affinity should just hold onto it until then unless he has reason to believe he won't be around since he'd have to be held accountable for the choice if he's scum, and if he's town he'd be working toward's town's best interests. In other words, I'm not particularly worried about who decides the box lynch. If the lynchee tosses it to someone else they're probably scum anyway. 1 for 1 trades aren't bad for town. Ideally the lynchee should be able to claim like anyone about to get lynched does, but with a short limit it may not be feasible. I dunno, we'll see what happens. If worst comes to worst I suppose Affinity could use it as a second vig.

I'm against ending the day at the 48 hour mark. If it's a bomb we're getting a flip on D1, which is the best thing ever.

@capth: In this case, passing to avoid being killed is not a good town strategy for the same reason refusing to hammer a bomb is a bad town strategy.

I've been cut a million times, so I'm going to post this and post reads shortly.

Dr Rawr · « **Reply #106 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:54:35 PM »

I have no name · « **Reply #107 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:57:09 PM »

Affinity isn't going to give up the box because it has Minoriko.

Dormio, even if you could pass the box to Shadoweh, if it is a bomb, we don't need a dead mod. Just look how that turned out for Yukkuri Mafia.

Hot Potato is an interesting idea. Although the more players that have it, the more likely someone is going to screw up the plan. So I think the best course of action is 1 pass, should Affinity decide to give up his free Minoriko. (I could use an extra Labyrinth of Touhou healer...)

@Lambdadelta, you say all box talk should be treated as null, except your ideas and treating it as an extra lynch. Why? I honestly think the box is a dud, but I'm not confident enough in this idea to stake my townie life on it.

##Unvote
Sure, pass rawr the box. Him and Serela are probably my best town reads at the moment. Going to wait for more content to plunk down another vote though.

Players who haven't posted yet, of which there are 3 of you, thoughts on things thus far?

^ lol

Serela · « **Reply #108 on:** March 31, 2012, 11:58:07 PM »

Quote

In this case, passing to avoid being killed is not a good town strategy for the same reason refusing to hammer a bomb is a bad town strategy

Not really, if, for example, I got given the box right before it blew up, I'd go "HELL YEAH I HAVE A VIG" and try to exact righteous townie justice on someone.

Or, at the least, what I'm trying to say is that you can't expect a town to not try and use it to vig someone as opposed to letting it blow up on themselves. It's a bit different then not hammering a bomb, because whoever else ends up hammering the bomb would also be town, while in this case you can actually hit scum.

cut by PFFFFFBBTBTTT :getdown:

Lexicat · « **Reply #109 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:00:54 AM »

IHNN: Do you understand what "null" means in this context? I mean that no real reads should be drawn from it. Not that it's unimportant.

If you had read my post, I explained why using it as a second lynch should be considered an exception (and even then, it's not that strong of a tell).

So please, IHNN, go read my post again and answer your own questions. If you're still confused, I'll do my best to assist you, but I'm afraid there isn't much else I can do.

Serela · « **Reply #110 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:03:22 AM »

Anyway Rawr has barely done anything but beg for the box all game, I think it's silly that several people have a big town read on him. It's possible he's just scum that wants to ensure they get to choose who dies at the deadline, because he can get away with doing something silly like this. And because it wouldn't be questionable at all if he threw the box at someone despite implying he doesn't want to.

That being said I have a null read on him right now, I'm not trying to argue he's scum. It's just that there's no real reason I can see to pass him off as town. Only WIFOM reasons.

Thankfully I trust in Affinity to not give him the box, but better safe then sorry.

I have no name · « **Reply #111 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:05:09 AM »

Quote from: Lady Lambdadelta on April 01, 2012, 12:00:54 AM

IHNN: Do you understand what "null" means in this context? I mean that no real reads should be drawn from it.

I misinterpreted 'null' as box discussion gives diplomatic immunity, as opposed to don't use it to determine town/scum. Basically null from the target player's perspective as opposed to the targeting player's perspective.

Dr Rawr · « **Reply #112 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:06:53 AM »

Quote from: Serela on April 01, 2012, 12:03:22 AM

:wikipedia:

implying all your posts havent involved boxes.

ActionDan · « **Reply #113 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:07:18 AM »

I think the best option is to use the bomb as a second lynch. LLD, it's not like a town holder of the box won't be influenced by scum anyway when passing it at the last second, be they the designated lynch or no.

So we could set up a box vote first. e.g whoever gets a majority gets the box and is expected to hold on to it until the timer runs out. Any funny business ---> they get lynched the normal way. And there shouldn't be any funny business from town because there is still be the possibility that the box contains delicious candy!

As for the box holder, I'd give it capt.h who is a town read for pointing out his town read of Rawr, which more or less mirrored my own thoughts.

I see where serela is coming from at least, or else those posts would be headdesk worthy (well they still are, but less so).

Conq's read depends on his town reads! The mere fact he said 'town' reads is encouraging tho.

Bt is developing into a town read.

The rest are to be determined.

##Unvote
##Box vote: Affinity

Does anyone wanna be the scretarial duties for the Box vote count (I can take over later, but it's a chore right now).

@Bt, LLD - Capt.h's confirm posts looked a lil nervous to me! twas page 2 strong. I felt a lingering uncertainty that usually accompanies scum in ED1.

Lexicat · « **Reply #114 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:08:32 AM »

Quote from: I have no name on April 01, 2012, 12:05:09 AM

I misinterpreted 'null' as box discussion gives diplomatic immunity, as opposed to don't use it to determine town/scum. Basically null from the target player's perspective as opposed to the targeting player's perspective.

Understandable. Do you have any further questions about my post, in light of this?

Cut by Dan: ##Vote:ActionDan

Kitten4u · « **Reply #115 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:10:00 AM »

Sorry Rawr, I don't want you to have the box because I think you'll actually keep it. :V I want to have a wagon to analyze before the NK.

Anyway, I think scum are more likely to blab about box shenanigans than actual reads on people, so I'm looking there. The ones that are most guilty of this in my opinion are Rawr, No Name, and Omba. Rawr is just a thing at this point. I have no idea what to make of him. Rawr, what are your opinions outside of box shenanigans? Not really liking No Name's #91 because it says absolutely nothing. I suppose the next post is a little better. He's getting a ED1 pass because this is how he acted last game. >_>

##Vote Omba

Do you have comments on non-box things?

~~Chaore is obviously scum because I'm town.~~

Serela · « **Reply #116 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:12:27 AM »

##unvote ##vote ActionDan

did you seriously just "box vote" someone who hasn't even posted yet

We want it on town, is Affinity's confirmation post so ~*~MAGICAL~*~ that he's more town then anyone here?

Not only that but you joined the "Dr Rawr is town because

" wagon and aauuughhh whyyyyyy

Serela · « **Reply #117 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:16:08 AM »

Or even regardless of who you want it on I mean affinity hasn't even POSTED

I have no name · « **Reply #118 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:27:17 AM »

I'm talking about box things because I have no real reads on people yet, and because I'm responding to other comments on box things. It's an endless spiral of ~~death~~ boxes.

Dan, the box vote is a decent idea, but I see it mirroring the lynch vote diluting its effectiveness.

Quote from: Kitten4u on April 01, 2012, 12:10:00 AM

He's getting a ED1 pass because this is how he acted last game. >_>

I guess I just start Mafia slow.

Quote from: Kitten4u on April 01, 2012, 12:10:00 AM

Not really liking No Name's #91 because it says absolutely nothing.

Hey, I asked a question (to rawr), and answered a question (from BT).

Speaking of BT, what are your thoughts on current player reads?

ActionDan · « **Reply #119 on:** April 01, 2012, 12:31:16 AM »

Quote from: Lady Lambdadelta on April 01, 2012, 12:08:32 AM

Understandable. Do you have any further questions about my post, in light of this?

Cut by Dan: Vote:ActionDan

I felt that slap.

But I'll turn the other cheek, why the vote?

O silly serela, This vote count that I am proposing is going to be for the person who actually holds the bomb at the end of the timer. I would prefer capt.h to keep it safe and sound until that point. I don't have any outstanding negative feelings about anyone so far so affinity to me is as good as any.

Dr Rawr is town because he seriously wanted that box. It reads as an impatient townie that wants to do something. I saw no ill-intentions. You'd think a newb-scum would be apprehensive and dicuss the bomb matter in a QT to see if it was ok to go around and be all "GIVE BOX TO ME."

Also my town-reads are pretty good when I get them. just sayin.

cuts. Agree that my proposed votecount would dilute the actual votecount. thinking more about it, we could just go off the regular VC, but I worry that inevitably there will be something like 3 wagons tied at 3-4 votes a piece and that would be incredibly annoying.