Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou 8F (Read 264835 times)

Mr. Sacchi · « **Reply #510 on:** June 13, 2012, 06:49:44 PM »

Quote from: Parallaxal on June 13, 2012, 06:23:37 PM

I'm not sure if it's in one of the links in the first post, but I could upload it later when I get home if you still haven't found it by then.

(You are asking for the character portraits, right?)

Yup, I'm asking for them portraits.

Though I just checked the second charagraph pack and Pocket Wars is in there, so no need for that upload, thanks anyway.

(And thanks for Raikaria for making me look.)

@EDIT

Well, apparently the cheat tables aren't working for me, so I can't set my encounter rate to 0 when I wanna fight a boss to preserve resources.

What gives? >_>

I have no name · « **Reply #511 on:** June 13, 2012, 08:06:36 PM »

What have I done :V (again)

Quote from: Headphones Sacchi on June 13, 2012, 06:49:44 PM

Well, apparently the cheat tables aren't working for me, so I can't set my encounter rate to 0 when I wanna fight a boss to preserve resources.

I couldn't get the cheat tables working either, but the memory address where the encounter rate is stored is 00171580 on Vista and 00181580 on Win 7.

No I don't know why it's different, but all Win 7 addresses are exactly 10000 higher than the corresponding address on Vista.

Mr. Sacchi · « **Reply #512 on:** June 13, 2012, 08:14:24 PM »

Didn't work for me, but when I actually decided to stop being lazy and went to find the encounter rate value, at least on Win7 Ultimate, it seems to be 0121580

Soo... 50000 lower than vista and 60000 than Win7, what?

I have no name · « **Reply #513 on:** June 13, 2012, 08:20:14 PM »

That just means it might not be OS based.
My sample size is 2 anyway :V

Raikaria · « **Reply #514 on:** June 13, 2012, 08:55:42 PM »

Finished up floor 1 of my draft run. At this point in the game, Tenshi, Kanako, Utusho, Yuuka and Sukia are practically useless, due to their SP costs, or the fact Remi outdamages them massively after a Curse.

Ironically, in terms of raw damage potential, due to not having Patchouli, I'm actually lower due to SP limitations at this point. Of course this will change as I proceed throughout the game, in terms of raw damage, I think I have the most out of Pesco, Para and myself. [I have Double Master Spark, Throwing Mt Atlas, and several other major nukes]. But by that point damage will not be my worry, it'll be surviveing to nuke before I get destroyed myself.

Beat Meiling at around Lv 4~6 [Cirno 6, others 5 or 4], and Chen after a return to Gensokyo after. Ironically, I found Meiling HARDER. Meling was just more durable than Chen, and because of my lack of damage at that point outside of a Tepes Boosted Remillia... I did get a Poision off from Wriggle, however.

Chen went down very fast. I just Speedbuffed Sanae with Aya, Tepes with Remi, cure the afflications, speedbuff Remi, and then Miricle Fruit on Cirno who spammed Diamond Blizzard. A switch to Sukia later to blow all her SP on a single Throwing Atlas and Chen died from Gungir spam. At this point Tenshi isn't as good a tank as Remi, simply due to her lower HP and inabilty to use State of Enlightenment.

[Also leveled Rinnosuke once to confirm something I never bothered to check. Apparently, he's a lady according to that level-up goddess!]

koakoa · « **Reply #515 on:** June 13, 2012, 09:48:44 PM »

Oi, this is withhelde from I have no name's and Ozzy's draft.

I really feel comfortable with my picks and probably am going to pull some wacky builds with my 12 (Tenshi, Iku, Kanako, Marisa, Mokou, Remilia, Orin, Rumia, Sakuya, Suwako, Reisen, and Reimu).

When I return home on Monday night, I'll likely stream my entire run through in a week on my account (http://www.twich.tv/withhelde).

Parallaxal · « **Reply #516 on:** June 13, 2012, 10:10:52 PM »

I haven't actually started playing because I've been too busy picking out just the right portraits for my team.

Ozzy · « **Reply #517 on:** June 14, 2012, 12:41:18 AM »

Quote from: Serela on June 13, 2012, 03:32:08 PM

Eirin and Wriggle should be built tankily. Well, so should Sanae, but that goes more without saying (I think... but seriously, she needs the MND so she doesn't fall over when healing). This team looks pretty painful to use, honestly, while still being doable. You've got passable tanks and healers and sources of damage, but it'll be a bit of a thing. Wriggle's poison will help you out a lot, I think. She was amazing when I used her. I do also recommend offensive Komachi, she doesn't lose much in the tank department and isn't exactly a tank anyway; she can't stay out for that long unless Minoriko healspammed her, who you don't have. She's good for not going down when you do switch her in, though.

I'm aware of my lack of offensive buffers. I realized that with Ran out of the picture I should have gone for either Iku or Keine. But unfortunately I realized too late. And it just so happens that none of the characters I have have self buffs either, except Maribel. Will this be much of a problem? I thought I heard that it was more important to have defensive buffs than offensive buffs.

Zil · « **Reply #518 on:** June 14, 2012, 12:54:33 AM »

Quote from: Zil on June 11, 2012, 08:30:13 PM

But yeah, I think offensive buffs aren't strictly needed. Defense is much more important.

Was it this perhaps? I've only played through the game once, so don't take my word for it. :derp:

I think it's true though, in most cases. I felt like any boss I could survive against would eventually go down after enough time, so higher damage would just be a time-saver. I've no experience with trying to rush the bosses with lots of damage though, since my team had no offensive buffs aside from Kaguya, but judging from Parallaxal's love of Iku, I'm guessing offense can make a big difference.

Mr. Sacchi · « **Reply #519 on:** June 14, 2012, 01:04:39 AM »

AFAIK, some bosses can burst you down in seconds even with +100% DEF and MND, Flandre with Laevantainn and especially Yuuka with Master Spark as well as Shikieiki with Bar of the Ten Kings spring to mind.

So in these cases, defense is useless and you should try to turn these 1m into 2m if you wanna survive.

Though these three are the only ones I can think of where you should really just kill before you're killed, there's also mokou but...

Vilkni · « **Reply #520 on:** June 14, 2012, 01:21:11 AM »

Funny thing is, Laevantainn is Fire-based, so you can also gear for fire resist along with enough MND/DEF considering it's composite for that case and reduce the damage far more. I agree on Shikieiki considering that spell is non-elemental, though. Yuuka kind of requires huge amounts of MYS resists and HP to survive Master Spark if you can't make it in time, though, to prevent wipes.

Zil · « **Reply #521 on:** June 14, 2012, 01:46:50 AM »

Well, all this business here has inspired me to revive my stupid idea of a final boss run, for better or worse. I want to ask for advice from the more experienced players here, mainly about how I should build certain characters. Given this team:

Yuuka
Reimu
Remilia
Yuyuko
Suika
Eirin
Kaguya
Eiki
Tenshi
Kanako
Utsuho
Maribel

How should I build Yuyuko, Suika, Eirin, Kanako, and Maribel? I haven't used them before so I'm not sure how they work. Any other kinds of advice are welcome as well, of course.

And about those bosses like Flandre and whoever, for some of them you always have the option of just returning to them later. Eiki kinda gets in your way, though personally I never witnessed Bar of the Ten Kings. I guess I might have just been lucky there.

Parallaxal · « **Reply #522 on:** June 14, 2012, 02:28:47 AM »

Suika: ATK

Maribel, Yuyuko, and Kanako: MAG

Eirin: MND, maybe some DEF, depending on which slot you have her sit in

You have a strong tank already with Tenshi, so there's not as much need to make the rest of your team tanky. Tenshi is great at being a stone wall while switching high delay nukers in and out, so you can afford to build characters like Kanako and Shikieiki for pure offense.

Eirin is in kind of a weird spot in that her offense is still sub-par compared to the rest of your team even if you build her pure MAG, so instead you can dedicate her as more of a MND tank while Tenshi focuses on DEF, or use her as a durable support character for more switches and the occasional Hourai Elixir.

As far as offensive buffs go, they're useful because there are quite a few bosses that you want to finish off quickly. I don't care how many group DEF/MND buffs you can cast, I doubt your team can survive for an indefinite period of time against any bosses that self-buffs to the extreme when low on health. Rinnosuke, Yukari, and the main game's final boss all come to mind. And let's not even get started on the Hibachi twins.

In fact, most Plus Disk bosses are of the kill-or-be-killed variety. Baal Avatar will keep gaining bonus ATK and SPD until he dies. No one can really survive multiple Giga Flares from Utsuho. Serpent of Chaos's 3rd form has attacks that can 2 million damage even to Meiling with full DEF/MND buffs. There are so many boss fights in this game where something can go wrong if you just try to grind them out, so I find that nuking them for that final stretch is definitely more than worth it.

Mr. Sacchi · « **Reply #523 on:** June 14, 2012, 04:54:05 AM »

Restarting a run on LoT I finally decided I'm going all the way through this time, no cheat engine (With the exception of encounter rate for bosses to save resources), no NG+. nothing, just going through the game normally.

I finished Floor 1 no problems, Meiling got steamrolled, though Chen did give me a few headaches, she was quickly dispatched as well, floor 2 was annoying with these shadowcats, I had to pretty much hope they didn't Par-Lock my entire party. :/

My fight with Cirno was a huge gamble, at best, if she casted Diamond Blizzard even once I was royally screwed, though I got lucky with her debuffs not landing, so I made it safe and sound, took me two tries to beat her (Got PAR/SPD Debuffed way too much first try, which resulted in her ramming me with Diamond Blizzard and Perfect Freeze over and over for a game over.) and a total of four to get her item.

Youmu... Well, first try she instantly casted Focus and followed up with God Slash of Karma Wind which immediately wiped out my party with the exception of Remilia (And I wasn't even gonna try without Reimu and Patchy.), second try through though and I discovered how reliable both Sakuya's SPD Buffs and Cirno's SPD Debuffs are. By putting an all SP-Recovery items on Sakuya, I was able to cast Lunar Clock on my party about 6~7 times through the whole thing, and with Cirno's Icicle Fall, Youmu was barely attacking at all. It took forever for her to fall, but she eventually did and never casted God Slash, though she did snipe Minoriko halfway through, unfortunately. Overall an easy battle, Myon was giving me more trouble than Youmu herself, and I got her item first try, yay.

Will do 3F and beyond maybe tomorrow, but now that I get how important debuffs and buffs are in this game, I can safely say that this playthrough will be much smoother than the last.

Nerv-Faktor · « **Reply #524 on:** June 14, 2012, 07:35:34 AM »

Quote from: Headphones Sacchi on June 14, 2012, 01:04:39 AM

AFAIK, some bosses can burst you down in seconds even with +100% DEF and MND, Flandre with Laevantainn a[...] springs to mind.

So in these cases, defense is useless and you should try to turn these 1m into 2m if you wanna survive.

I have exactly the opposite experience.
I think it's ridiculously easy to get Flandre's Laevateinn to do close to 0 damage if you have a character with good combined defensive stats und near +100% buffs. It doesn't even have to be Tenshi, in my last playthrough I managed to do that with both Eirin and Yukari while still being at the lower end of the level recommendation.

Raikaria · « **Reply #525 on:** June 14, 2012, 10:16:10 AM »

Got to Cirno at Lv 8~10 [Wriggle being the only 10]. Very quickly nuked her down with the Aya-Sanae-Remi tactic, also hitting nukes with Rin [Who was then promptly OHKO'ed afterwards but I don't care because she was pretty much out of SP after that anyway], Sukia, Marisa's Master Spark and Utusho's Hell Tomahawk for the kill.

I could have done it a lot safer than I did, but I basically just wanted to see what sort of damage benchmarks I was hitting at this point, so I know my limits better for Youmu, who I'm not looking foward to because Tenshi still can't use State of Enlightenment.

Also when I beat Cirno her level-ups reset, and her SP spent and held items vanished. I guess this will happen for the other characters too. That's gonna be painful for Utusho, Yuuka and Kanako. [Or I can just avoid their fights and not have this reset]

But at least I know now. It just means I can't fight Sukia, Utusho, Sanae's Foe, ect, and shouldn't talk to Wriggle or Aya after their quests are done.

Pesco · « **Reply #526 on:** June 14, 2012, 10:24:59 AM »

The resets only happened in one of the early versions. If you're properly patched to 3.01 it shouldn't do that.

Raikaria · « **Reply #527 on:** June 14, 2012, 10:36:56 AM »

Well, my version is 3.01, and the 3.01 english patch works fine on it.

Weird.

Parallaxal · « **Reply #528 on:** June 14, 2012, 01:41:51 PM »

Made it to the 3rd floor with my draft team. Boss fights were fairly uneventful. I mean, I have Yuyuko, how hard can those early fights be?

Random encounters haven't been too bad so far. Keine, Reisen, Sakuya, Suwako, Patchouli, and Ran are all excellent at sweeping floor trash in the early game. However, I do find myself remebering again why I hate those Bronze Sorceresses to no end because no one on my team was fast enough to outspeed them until I was almost done with the 2nd floor. And running into 4 Bronze Sorceresses at once is no fun at all.

It has come to my attention that I have two almost identically good tanks on my team. Keine is the obvious one, but apparently it slipped my mind that Sakuya is more or less just as tanky. The two of them actually have identical HP, DEF, and MND growths. Sakuya levels up ever so slightly faster, but Keine has superior affinities. There's one more thing I've discovered that gives Keine the edge: her skill point costs to level up DEF and MND are actually lower than Sakuya's. Still, it's nice to have two nearly interchangable main tanks, especially since they both fulfill the same role in boss fights: spam party buffs.

Raikaria · « **Reply #529 on:** June 14, 2012, 01:50:00 PM »

I've just reached Floor 3 too.

I actually had some trouble with Youmu, because she decided to instagib Sanae as soon as I casted Divine Wind on Remillia to heal PAR and PSN from Tepes, and then she took Aya out shortly afterwards. This was compounded by Youmu's Ghost Half proccing PSN on both Tenshi and Remillia.

So, I was left without my speed buffs and heals. I think I was down to Remi, Tenshi, Sukia, Wriggle, Kanako, Marisa and Yuka at the end of the fight. I did manage to kill off Youmu and her Ghost half pretty much at the same time, however [I was focusing on Youmu, but AoE killed Myon]

Floor 3 is going OK right now. The way I do floor 3 is fully explore it before going onto 4, gives me an excuse to grind. Marisa and Cirno are trashclearing well. I then explore F4, then go beat up the bosses... not counting the dolls.

Decided to build some SP on Utusho and Kanako so they are useable before endgame. Even lategame, Utusho's SP costs are horrific, Kanako can fight somewhat now, but she needs some SP too. I'm probobly going to need them against Alice after all, if only to buy time for Wriggle's Poisions to whittle down Healing Light...

But I should have State of Englightenment by then. Although in all fairness Remi's probobly goning to be the main tank for Alice, because Tenshi will be using her Sword to try and disspell the defensive buffs on Healing Light.

Pesco · « **Reply #530 on:** June 14, 2012, 01:55:09 PM »

I am clearly behind. This needs to be fixed immediately.

Parallaxal · « **Reply #531 on:** June 14, 2012, 05:01:54 PM »

Went up against Rumia, the first boss I couldn't cheese with instant death attacks. I had to settle for Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana chunking her for 6k damage instead.

Moonlight Ray does about 50 damage to Keine without buffs, and 0 damage after buffs. I think she'll be fine for now. The real test is how well she can tank Yuugi's Supernatural Phenomenon, although that will take a while to get there.

I really hate those stupid little tengu.

Pesco · « **Reply #532 on:** June 14, 2012, 05:14:24 PM »

Mokou has turned out to be quite a nice slot 2 so far even without building her for it. It's not so much that she can take a hit, just that she does happen to have the TP to stick around even if mobs get a turn in. Mokou also appears to be quite fast for a mage.

Pure ATK Komachi with no items currently has the highest offensive stat in my team. On paper with the modifiers on her biggest nuke, it's pretty cost effective and fast.

Currently not having enough SKP to put Yukari and Rinno's TP to respectable levels for proper tanking.

Nerv-Faktor · « **Reply #533 on:** June 14, 2012, 05:30:52 PM »

Quote from: Pesco on June 14, 2012, 05:14:24 PM

Currently not having enough SKP to put Yukari and Rinno's TP to respectable levels for proper tanking.

The drop of the 2 St. Elmo's Fires on 5F and 6F is a +8 TP item. Consider getting those for them.

Raikaria · « **Reply #534 on:** June 14, 2012, 05:39:39 PM »

Quote from: Nerv-Faktor on June 14, 2012, 05:30:52 PM

The drop of the 2 St. Elmo's Fires on 5F and 6F is a +8 TP item. Consider getting those for them.

I have never got those drops and didn't know they existed.

BRB noteing this down for Yuuka and her 5 Base TP.

Also I join your hate for those freaking small Tengu. Aya's not fast enough to outspeed them yet, and even then, they resist Wind. They also have this wonderful habit of double-tackleing Cirno or Marisa, who, as my main trashclearers, forces me to go back.

Sukia is proveing a useful slot 2 right now when it's called, simply because she has pretty nice HP. Obviously she's not ideal, and once Tenshi can use SofE Remillia will be slot 2 in boss fights...

Pesco · « **Reply #535 on:** June 14, 2012, 05:52:38 PM »

I'll do the equips changeups once I'm there. On top of redoing the boss fights until the drops appear as well.

I have no name · « **Reply #536 on:** June 14, 2012, 07:24:18 PM »

The draft I'm in has a ban on instant death moves on bosses :V

Also, I have Chen and Mystia, probably the 2 fastest characters in the game. I don't see failing to outspeed enemies being a problem until the 10th floor.

Raikaria · « **Reply #537 on:** June 14, 2012, 07:32:29 PM »

Quote from: I have no name on June 14, 2012, 07:24:18 PM

The draft I'm in has a ban on instant death moves on bosses :V

Also, I have Chen and Mystia, probably the 2 best trash clearers in the game. I don't see failing to powergrind on enemies being a problem until the 10th floor.

Fixed it for ya.

Pesco · « **Reply #538 on:** June 14, 2012, 07:50:57 PM »

The powergrinding option with Chen and Mystia on your team is very true. It's viable enough for me to farm for Bomb Rings, and Black Onyxes on 3F and 4F.

Parallaxal · « **Reply #539 on:** June 14, 2012, 08:13:06 PM »

Quote from: I have no name on June 14, 2012, 07:24:18 PM

The draft I'm in has a ban on instant death moves on bosses :V

Seems kind of pointless to me. If you can't beat the bosses of the first 2 floors with a full party of any 12 characters, I don't really see how you could survive the rest of this game.