Generic F11 Mafia - Game Over

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

JOB? I dunno.
Anyway, let me play LoM in peacereading brb.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

JOB PMed me yesterday telling me that he was going to be on V/LA for two days. He also mentioned saying this in thread, but... he didn't, so yeah.

[ActionDan]

Thank you HW, that day is sorely needed.  Been upset lately since one of my parent's afflictions, Asain Parent Syndrome, flared up again.  Being forced to sleep now in order not to miss waking up at 6am to get to a chess tournament in philly.  Hopefully I'll find some way to get internet access tomorrow (I'm not sure if I'll be allowed to bring my laptop).

[Shadoweh]

JOB PMed me yesterday telling me that he was going to be on V/LA for two days. He also mentioned saying this in thread, but... he didn't, so yeah.

Oh, yeah he did mention it in thread, he just didn't use the words V/LA. I was hoping it was Zakeri. >___>

[J.O.B]

 :V
I got it back earlier than I expected.
I'm back and ready to roll. Just let me read first.

[J.O.B]

I was expecting more posts :V

I don't really know what to make of the argument between Shadoweh-Conq>Dormio. I thought they were all town. But I'm actually feeling less confident with Shadoweh now.
I can't put my finger on why though.

Serela is still not doing much. I'll wait on Dan for a bit. Zak needs to post.

Also can we have a votecount?

[J.O.B]

tl;dr I don't know what to say :V

[Shadoweh]

I don't really know what to make of the argument between Shadoweh-Conq>Dormio. I thought they were all town. But I'm actually feeling less confident with Shadoweh now.
I can't put my finger on why though.

Because I have more votes on me. :V
If we're all town where the scum be at?

[J.O.B]

At least I didn't come in and accidental hammer you like in Vanilla Mafia 2 :V

I don't think I want that happening again :V

[J.O.B]

Unless you're scum of course.

In that case it would've been lucky :V

[Shadoweh]

<_< I'd prefer you not vote me at all, you know.

[J.O.B]

Well obviously :V
But it's not your decision. It's mine.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

So I have no idea how to words, and I suffered from mild food poisoning or something as I was writing this post. Whatever.

I think of it more as removing control of the wagons from those who have proven they are not good at them. Not only did you lynch town, the general consensus of thought has been you lynched town and gained no knowledge from it.

So you are now the general consensus? Tell me who, outside of yourself, has said that we have gained no knowledge from PX's lynch.

This in itself is a deflection of guilt. You're saying it's okay because other people were voting him. You were wrong. The lack of guilt from any of you for throwing a lynch away also angers me. We only have two mislynches before suddenly we're in LYLO.

I'm saying that I thought that PX was scummy, and that other people must have as well since he got enough votes to be lynched. What of it?

And? That's a statement of fact. We should be hunting on the flipped wagon, not on random people who were voting possible scum. There IS scum there. I can understand why you wouldn't want to be confirmed scum though.

Another fact is that you say that you believed Zakeri to be town once he said that the whole Graveyard thing was not trolling. Which means that, in your perspective, your vote was on town at the end of the day. I like how that works. :derp:

It is almost like I hadn't decided if I wanted to vote Conq or not. I honestly can't say if another's case would have changed my mind, I get nervous when people agree with me. But this also comes from the viewpoint of attacking me for possibly attacking someone who is a suspect from the viewpoint that they're town. The same thing as with Zakeri. So what if I had voted Conqueror? Maybe someone's case would have pointed out him spelling 'I am scum' with the first words of all his posts or something. 

Except you expressed willingness to lynch him yesterday, have continued to do so today, and even made a case on him. You just did that thing where you failed to place a vote on him at all. In addition to this, you kind of voteparked on Zakeri yesterday, as well as failing to place your vote anywhere else today. This makes me think that you're being opportunistic in regards to Conq.

It means I think I was pushing town now. I accept no guilt for unflipped suspect lurkers. You don't seem to either, despite having clearly stated you were also willing to lynch him yesterday.

What I'm saying is that I think that your entire reasoning for voting Zakeri was complete bs.

Thank you for reminding me you spent the early game attacking Schezo with JOB. :V Your reasoning for voting him was he was trying to get you to vote for a townie named PX. Funny how that worked out in the end.

I voted for him because I felt that he was trying to direct my vote, what of it?

His lynch was viable all day. His lynch never stopped being viable. Yet by the end I informed PX that he was town and there was no possibility of lynching him for being scum in my mind. I will maintain he was a better target to get out of the game then PX was.

Express intent to lynch the dude you claim is town over the guy that you've been saying is bad all day whilst failing to provide an actual case.
Proceed to use the fact that you were on another person that you think was town's wagon instead of the person that got flipped to explain how right you are and how we should all listen to you, since the people that voted for PX are dumb. :V
After all, you've pretty much said that your only problem with him was that you disliked how he made a similar case to one that he used in Graveyard, yet you were still voting for him at the end of D1.

I don't think you think I'm scum. The amount of conceding you do to me in this conversation admits you think most of your points are misunderstandings on your part. Keep choo chooing that mislynch scum.

Oh, I do believe that you're scum. I shall reorganize my thoughts on you, since it's probably been all jumbled up in this exchange.

• Votepark on Zakeri whilst expressing willingness to lynch other people.
• Rubbish reasoning for voting Zakeri, "You're trolling me by using the same case that you did in another game, aren't you?", and going with this for the entire day.
• Opportunism on Conq.
• Attempts to control today's lynch because she was so totally right about PX and Schezo being town. Note that she deflects my point about her town read of Schezo coming from him defending himself by simply reiterating my reasoning for attacking Schezo earlier in the day.
• Failure to produce a vote for a large portion of today, combined with voteparking yesterday.

Oh, and by the way, since when did Serela become townie to you anyway?

[Conqueror]

I'm not sure what you mean by leading people on with questions. There are always certain answers I'm looking for. I'm not trying to rig the questions other then to see if the person responds the way I think they would as a townie. That includes the 'trap question' you pointed at earlier.

If you frame questions a certain way you're going to get certain answers out of it. It looked to me like you were overly invested in the answers.

Anyway, after reading a bit and calming down, I'd still rather lynch Serela than Shadoweh or anyone else.  I'd feel better about the Shadoweh wagon if the people voting her would show up and post. :V Meanwhile, you have Serela, who still feels like he's reading past half the game, and a lot of people have voiced suspicion of him but no one has been willing to vote him.

I feel like I missing responding to something.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I'd feel better about the Shadoweh wagon if the people voting her would show up and post. :V

Aren't you one of those people? :V

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Wait no you aren't holy crap I'm tired or something.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I do agree, though.
Serela, Zakeri, Conq and Dan should post more.

[Shadoweh]

Dear not reading the game Dormio:
First of all, there hasn't been a single drop of information taken from the lynch, or the nightkill. Secondly.

The PX lynch feels useless in terms of gathering info. At least my lynch would have resolved something that everyone hadn't already guessed was true, anyway.

Except you expressed willingness to lynch him yesterday, have continued to do so today, and even made a case on him. You just did that thing where you failed to place a vote on him at all. In addition to this, you kind of voteparked on Zakeri yesterday, as well as failing to place your vote anywhere else today. This makes me think that you're being opportunistic in regards to Conq.

Now it's voteparking? Trying to drive someone to a lynch who isn't town to me at the time is voteparking now? Again these attacks are made to mean nothing when tomorrow the named people are still unflipped possible scum. 'Failing' to vote isn't scummy either. In fact if I were being opportunistic with Conq I would have voted him when Serela did to make him a compelling wagon for people like JOB.

What I'm saying is that I think that your entire reasoning for voting Zakeri was complete bs.

It was cool enough yesterday for you to support lynching him.

Express intent to lynch the dude you claim is town over the guy that you've been saying is bad all day whilst failing to provide an actual case.
Proceed to use the fact that you were on another person that you think was town's wagon instead of the person that got flipped to explain how right you are and how we should all listen to you, since the people that voted for PX are dumb. :V
After all, you've pretty much said that your only problem with him was that you disliked how he made a similar case to one that he used in Graveyard, yet you were still voting for him at the end of D1.

It's hard to make 'actual cases' as you term them, on people who don't post often. However I don't think my thoughts on Zakeri were lacking. My 'only problem' was that he used a post that looked like a joke post with reasoning taken from another game and was presenting it at 100% serious. I'm not sure what exactly about his vote change that struck me as town but it strikes to me of his stronger townie moments. The people voting for PX were still dumb. Except for the one(s) that were scum. Aren't you happy I think you're playing well instead of a foolish townie?

Oh, I do believe that you're scum. I shall reorganize my thoughts on you, since it's probably been all jumbled up in this exchange.

• Votepark on Zakeri whilst expressing willingness to lynch other people.

<--- Not a votepark and people kinda have to be willing to lynch more then one person on Day 1, yo.

• Rubbish reasoning for voting Zakeri, "You're trolling me by using the same case that you did in another game, aren't you?", and going with this for the entire day.

<-- That reason is 100% legit and I would vote him again. He made one other post in which he expressed no scum reads except Shadoweh. Although his sudden concern about his read on you twinges me and I'd look at him again if you flip scum.

• Attempts to control today's lynch because she was so totally right about PX and Schezo being town. Note that she deflects my point about her town read of Schezo coming from him defending himself by simply reiterating my reasoning for attacking Schezo earlier in the day.

<--- I have done what I've always done. 24 hours of prodding suspicions, 24 hours of accusing. The accusing stage looks like it gets to go on longer today. My town read of Schezo was at the start of the game and had nothing to do with him defending himself you lying fox so shut your scummy misrepping mouth.

• Failure to produce a vote for a large portion of today, combined with voteparking yesterday.

<-- Votes are boring. Not voting is not scummy after Day 1. Still not a votepark. and using the word FAILED is attributing negative connotations the action doesn't need.
[/list]

Oh, and by the way, since when did Serela become townie to you anyway?

Since about the last post he made that makes him sound like he's drowning. Conqueror, how est reading past half the game of text walls exactly scummy for someone like Serela, and what is your opinion of his last post? Also why won't you help me lynch Dormio god damnit.

[Shadoweh]

Yknow, maybe we should stop posting text-walls at each other so the rest of the players can actually read the game to catch up. >_>

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Yknow, maybe we should stop posting text-walls at each other so the rest of the players can actually read the game to catch up. >_>

Other players?!?! You mean it's not just you and I?

[J.O.B]

Other players?!?! You mean it's not just you and I?

I feel forgotten

[J.O.B]

Also Shadoweh, in case you couldn't tell. The fact that I'm not so sure of you being townie means I would reconsider you first to be scum, other the other three.
Speaking of which ##FoS:Shadoweh
I don't like the willingness to drag this argument out between you and Dormio. IMO Dormio is using valid points which you are just trying to throw back on him with bad points. Taking meta into account I know you should be able to do better than this, which makes me feel you are just doing it to drag it out instead of proving your innocence.

Also we gain information from any flip, regardless of alignment. Maybe you didn't get any information because you knew it already (aka Shadoweh scum)?
In fact, one thing I noticed is that both the people who argued with me ended up dead. If this is supposed to be scum's way of getting the attention onto me for an easy lynch then boy did it work well :V

[J.O.B]

@Shadoweh (and to an extent, Huhwhat) asking about who was on V/LA:

I'm posting to mention that I will have limited access for the next 2 days. So I might not be on at all during this time.

I did mention it :V

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Tally IX: The Votecount of the "Superior Yoghurt Flavor"
Shadoweh (3): WHMZakeri, ActionDan, Tamamo no dorMae (L-1)
ActionDan (1): J.O.B
Serela (1): MySTKing
Tamamo no dorMae (1): Shadoweh
WHMZakeri (1): Serela

Not Voting: Nobody!
With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.
About 29 hours remain in the day.

Shadoweh is at L-1!
WHMZakeri has been prodded.

[ActionDan]

Woot! 6 hour loss. 

next game starts at 7 and I need to eat something.

tl:dr version of what I'll be saying tonight (since I still olny have about 2/5)

Shadoweh has been painting a picture since she posted her "reads" on D1.  Dormio magically becomes unvotable whilst Job is one of four Shadoweh is considering to vote, even though at that point Shadoweh had never stated Dormio was a town read while Job had been given at least a town lean.   Meanwhile Conq gets bad-mouthed because... Shadoweh doesn't trust him for whatever reason.  Same with the vague "Dan seems too quiet" thrown my way.  The reason I asked about Schezo is that if you are REALLY letting activity times since somebody last posted affect your judgement it should be applied equally.   Your "Schezo posted so much in the first 24 hours" is a ridiculous reason to shoo away the next 24 hours of inactivity.   After you put me as red, your feeble attempt to justify the read was "Dan feels like he's going after people that look bad after the flip".   Riiiiggghhht.  Going after Zak and you?  First, Zak actually looked like the person who was most likely to get lynched yesterday.  If Px hadn't voted himself and switched to Job, Dormio had expressed intent to switch to Zak, which might have happened before I switched to Px (which I would have done considering the wrong VC and then the 25 min warning which happened minutes before I got to computer class).  Second, You were not on Px and had called Px town.  Were you supposed to look bad?  OR are you talking about the possible Zak lynch.... because you looking BAD from that had it gone through means you are assuming that zak is town... a priori.

Similarly, you go "I think Schezo/Dan arguement had something to do with Schezo's death".  Every picture needs a frame.  That "arguement" was a try to explain to Schezo what I thought of his earlier spat with Dormio.  On the same note Schezo's death is pretty good for a Scum!Shadoweh.  Since you spare no quips telling us that you look at Job funny (when he's not town to you) only because Schezo/Px were "screaming" his name, let me remind you that Schezo's last words were that he thought you were scummy.  Px also had a scum read on you, although he wasn't screaming it.  Moreover the way you phrased "you lynched someone I thought was town and killed someone I knew was town" is self-centered.  Scum are capable of killing off their town reads to get fresh starts for the new day.  Your attack on Conq earlier for being the town leader of the Px wagon makes no sense when you simultaneously ignore Dormio's vote on Px (which on a re-read during the night I found oppurtunistic) and tell Conq "well if it's not you, it's someone else, go look at the others and make a case, but you are most likely the scum on the wagon."

All your cases tell me is why you THINK someone MIGHT be scum, but I don't see any specifics as to ACTIONS they did that WERE SCUMMY.  What did Pesco call this? Shit-flinging.

More shall come later (Dormio/Shadoweh) but I'm straving.

[Shadoweh]

I blanked that 3 votes is L-1 today.
I don't even have a real wagon. The only person who's given any reason to be voting me is Dormio. I refuse to be Lynched by Lurkers, this is embarrassing. This would have been our deciding wagon right now if I hadn't asked for an extension. Pathetic.

*deep breaths*
The rest of us are too spread out. I will concede that Dormio being able to keep up with me in a WoT War is a sign of towniness for him. Regardless, no one else is interested in his lynch and I have a vested interest in us lynching someone who has a chance of flipping scum IE NOT ME. Since my lynch is the one on the line I'm going to make the first omg bandwagon hopping concession and.. I can't believe he cut me before I voted him. God damnit Dan.

##Unvote
##Vote: Action Dan

Well before I read his post which is already infuriating me, I'll talk about why Dan. Let's compare something neat.

Tally IX: The Votecount of the "Superior Yoghurt Flavor"
Shadoweh (3): WHMZakeri, ActionDan, Tamamo no dorMae (L-1)

Reads:
Scum: Shadoweh
Scummy: Zak, Dormio

Your partners on my wagon are the other people you think are scummy, Dan. I must be scum partners with the moon at this point. And you should just be better then posting a vote and leaving knowing you were going to be gone that long. Also I don't like you. :p In fact I'm going to respond to your post seperately as this is more important.

If this exchange with Dan convinces me otherwise I would choose Zakeri over Serela, half because between the two I think he's more likely to be scum, and half because if he gets modkilled as town and I'm lynched today scum wins. You all also have no interest in voting Conqueror, I have no time to try for another push onto him at this point.

Also, since I am apparently the scummiest thing on earth today, I should show you my claim.

OH GOD WHY
I mean confirmations!

I claimed my soul crushing pm in my first post. I am a Vanilla Town. I think I should stop inning to any form of 'normal' game, it doesn't seem to take well to me.

I don't like the willingness to drag this argument out between you and Dormio. IMO Dormio is using valid points which you are just trying to throw back on him with bad points. Taking meta into account I know you should be able to do better than this, which makes me feel you are just doing it to drag it out instead of proving your innocence.

JOB, stop it. Winning or losing an argument doesn't make the winner town or the loser scum. Taking meta into account isn't something you're capable of doing if that's your conclusion. I am not getting enough sleep to be scum and I am far too lazy as scum to get involved in a post war. What you're doing is ignoring voting based on your own conclusions (see: your vote on Dan) and deciding whose case you agree with so you can vote based on reasoning that sounds good to you. You have to learn to make your own decisions. Does Shadoweh sound like scum? Does Dormio sound like town? Could they both be town and we should be looking elsewhere? You don't have to pick a side to be right.

Also we gain information from any flip, regardless of alignment. Maybe you didn't get any information because you knew it already (aka Shadoweh scum)?

Do tell us what information you have gleaned from the town flips, beyond that Schezo and PX were town. Tell how this information is useful to you in tracking down the actual scum. Your assertation that I didn't gain anything because I already knew their alignments is correct, however.

[Shadoweh]

Actually, before I address anything about that post, I'm going to take this point aside because it pisses me off the most.

All your cases tell me is why you THINK someone MIGHT be scum, but I don't see any specifics as to ACTIONS they did that WERE SCUMMY.  What did Pesco call this? Shit-flinging.

Because Pesco was able to read me so well. I could fucking kill you for this line alone.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

My laptop is doing that thing where it's on the verge of blowing up again, so low activity.
And what is up with only two people posting in twenty four hours. :/
Anyway.

First of all, there hasn't been a single drop of information taken from the lynch, or the nightkill. Secondly.

Excuse me whilst I go somewhere else to laugh. No information from the lynch? May I inquire so as to how you're getting this information that somebody on the PX wagon must have been scum? I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I highly dislike how you keep emphasizing the fact that you did not get the person you wanted lynched, and therefore everyone should follow you blindly today.
Also, #222. Where did you get this from, if not from Schezo and PX after their deaths? :V

Now it's voteparking? Trying to drive someone to a lynch who isn't town to me at the time is voteparking now? Again these attacks are made to mean nothing when tomorrow the named people are still unflipped possible scum. 'Failing' to vote isn't scummy either. In fact if I were being opportunistic with Conq I would have voted him when Serela did to make him a compelling wagon for people like JOB.

Scum for what? Making a post that you thought was there to troll you. Only he said it was serious and you kind of dropped and ignored him for the rest of the day. Except you didn't drop the vote. What is that if not voteparking?
Care to point out when Serela voted for Conq?

It was cool enough yesterday for you to support lynching him.

Hahaha no. Nice try, though. I believe that I was expressing suspicion of Zakeri for a completely different set of reasons than yours. I do like how you're trying to make it sound as thought I was sheeping to you, though.

It's hard to make 'actual cases' as you term them, on people who don't post often. However I don't think my thoughts on Zakeri were lacking. My 'only problem' was that he used a post that looked like a joke post with reasoning taken from another game and was presenting it at 100% serious. I'm not sure what exactly about his vote change that struck me as town but it strikes to me of his stronger townie moments. The people voting for PX were still dumb. Except for the one(s) that were scum. Aren't you happy I think you're playing well instead of a foolish townie?

"He stopped voting for me, I like him."? :V

Not a votepark and people kinda have to be willing to lynch more then one person on Day 1, yo.

Yep. Because having a singular reason for voting Zakeri that you threw away when he simply stated that it was not a joke post is the best reason to keep your vote on someone for an entire day, right?

That reason is 100% legit and I would vote him again. He made one other post in which he expressed no scum reads except Shadoweh. Although his sudden concern about his read on you twinges me and I'd look at him again if you flip scum.

I have since apologized for assuming Zakeri was trolling me.

Really now?

I have done what I've always done. 24 hours of prodding suspicions, 24 hours of accusing. The accusing stage looks like it gets to go on longer today.

Because "OMG Why didn't you guys listen to me I told you PX and Schezo were town ok now let's lynch Conq because." is so totally prodding, right? :V
And then the accusing, where you make a case on Conq without a vote, is so valid, right? :V

My town read of Schezo was at the start of the game and had nothing to do with him defending himself you lying fox so shut your scummy misrepping mouth.

You have said yourself that your town read of Schezo was based around his large amount of activity early on in the game. Almost all of this was him defending himself. Care to explain how the two are unrelated?

Votes are boring. Not voting is not scummy after Day 1. Still not a votepark. and using the word FAILED is attributing negative connotations the action doesn't need.

Sure it's not. :V
And your need to constantly call me scummy aren't?

Since about the last post he made that makes him sound like he's drowning.

How was that post different from the others?

Also, I have another question for you.

RE: Serela and Dormio. So I guess I'm the only one who considers those two could be insane enough to actually do that together as scum? It doesn't mean anything now since there are better Dormio posts to look at.

Why did you even bother bringing this up?

Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
CUT. GODDAMN IT. MY LAPTOP IS OVERHEATING, HERE.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Why is it that as soon as I say that my laptop is on the verge of blowing up, I manage to fix it? (For how long, noone knows)

[J.O.B]

You have to learn to make your own decisions. Does Shadoweh sound like scum? Does Dormio sound like town? Could they both be town and we should be looking elsewhere? Do tell us what information you have gleaned from the town flips, beyond that Schezo and PX were town. Tell how this information is useful to you in tracking down the actual scum. Your assertation that I didn't gain anything because I already knew their alignments is correct, however.

I do know how to make my own decisions. It ws my decision to FoS you. Not yours, not Dormio's, not Dan's, not Conq's, not anybody's, just mine.
Yes you sound like scum, yes Dormio sounds like town, yes it is "possible" you could both be town but I don't think that is likely.
The information we get from flips is stuff like interactions with the players, seeing if people buddied up to anybody (i.e, you), we get the alignment of the players who flipped (which is precious information). There is a lot you can get from a flip. You're just a lazy scum who already knew it and is complaining about the "little" information we got.
Also that last sentence is a scum claim :V

Oh and I interpreted that "claim" as you getting scum yet again.

Cut by Shadoweh and Dormio.
Cut by Dormio again. Lol