Maidens of the Kaleidoscope
~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: WHMZakeri on January 19, 2011, 05:26:55 PM
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Welcome, to the Moriya Shrine.
We hope you enjoy the festival. We welcome you to the first game of the year 2011, and we are glad you decided to spend this cold winter evening at our place! Remember, Nuclear Energy is the future of Gensokyan Technology, and in fact, is not a conspiracy. Thank you, and have a wonder week!
---Living---
7. Affinity
10. VgameT
12. Bardiche - Remilia Scarlet
---Dead---
9. Bob - Hong Meiling Lynched Day one.
5. Inaba Tewi - Hatate himekaido Killed Night one.
8. Schezo - Iku Nagae Lynched Day two.
2. Hanged Hourai - Reisen Inaba (Doctor) Killed Night two.
11. huh what - Alice Margatroid (Cult) Misfired upon, Day three
13. Roukanken - Sakuya Izayoi Lynched Day three
1. reVelske - Tewi Inaba (Anti-cult) Killed Night three
3. Anarchy PX - Mystia Lorelai Yuyuko-Dolled, Day four
4. Robotic Doll.S - Komachi Onazuka Lynched, Day four
6. NeoSerela Serpentarius - Youmu Kompaku (One-shot Vig) Killed Night four
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Rules:
1. Nights will last upwards of 24-48 hours, depending on several factors. My whim being one of them.
2. Days will last exactly 72 hours. Day 1 will last 48 hours after confirmation.
3. Once a majority is reached, I will ignore all subsequent votes and unvotes and the day will end with that person's death. You may talk during twilight.
4. Do not discuss this game outside of the thread unless you are given a quicktopic link. Daytalk is allowed.
5. Once dead, you are Dead. You are allowed one bah post, no more no less.
6. You may not delete or Edit you previous posts. If you must make a change, please doublepost.
7. Do not attempt to use the way my Role PMs are writen to prove someone's innocence. It probably wouldn't work anyways.
7.5. After 48 hours without a post, not counting night (But counting from the previous day if nessecery) They are open to being prodded. Please tell me and I will do so if they need it. If they do not respond within 24 hours of the prod, I will replace them. Please post in thread if you expect to be gone for more than one or two days.
8. You can grab my attention in thread with bold. Example: Mod: I like Vanilla Icecream!
9. No posting Screenshots.
10. Any post claiming to break the rules will be treated as having broken the rules.
11. The Color Orange is mine. Just be glad I'm not using Chocobo Yellow.
12. Votes are to be marked in bold and with double #s. Example: ##Vote: Zakeri
12.3. Unvotes will be marked similarly. Example: ##Unvote: Zakeri. Failure to do this will result in me ignoring your vote. Failing to unvote also means that you are unable to vote someone else.
12.5. You may vote "No lynch" which will result in a no lynch if it has the most votes or holds a majority.
12.8. All Vote Ties are resolved by Haiku. Most interesting Haiku will be graded by my friends, family, and people I don't even know. They do not need to be about anything in particular.
13. No new information on this rule can be viewed at this time If deadline occurs with no majority, the one with the most votes at the time will be lynched.
All role PMs have been sent. If there are mistaking is a mistake in your PM, please notify me. If you did not receive a role, and your name is listed in the topic under "Living" Please send me a PM regarding the discrepancy.
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Mod: I like choco-cuppacino, with swirls of caramel and sprinkled with hazelnuts icecream!
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Confirmed.
Second game now, yay!
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One plus one = one on a bun
Confirmed.
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Yeah.
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I know the borderlines we drew between us~♫
Keep the votes down, keep the innocents safe.
I know our antebellum innocence
was never meant to see the light of our victory~♪
How much would I give to be confirmed~♫
How many will we lynch to win this game~?
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I am 12 and what is this ???
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/confirmed
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I'm confirmed as something really confirmed.
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My body is ready. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDq4URXOPlU)
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Confirmed!
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Followin the Ruuru will be easy
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Please refrain from changing your username while the game is in progress, even for the confirmation phase.
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By my stars and garters.
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Confirmed.
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I am 78% Certain that everyone has confirmed.
Day one Begins
Day one ends at 12:30, Jan. 22nd (Sat.).
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@mod: use my proper name on the playerlist
Vote Schezo
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Oops
##Vote: Schezo
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Curse you Hourai for always killing me on your spellcard.
##Vote: Hanged Hourai
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*Shifty eyes* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T55ArHjeR1c)
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10. Any post claiming to break the rules will be treated as having broken the rules.
##Break: Rules
##Repeatedly
##With a sledgehammer
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And it has began!....I'm tired....
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BAD GRAMMAR AAAAAAAAAAAA
##Vote: Robotic Doll.S
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First Count of Day One
Schezo (L-6) Inaba Tewi
Hanged Hourai (L-6) Schezo
Robotic Doll.S (L-6) NeoSerela
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to fix that.
All mistakes in the player list have been corrected.
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So this is Mafia. I assume what you do is arbitrarily vote someone and get them to defend themselves.
In the same spirit,
##Vote: Schezo
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12. Bardiche - Remilia Scarlet
hmmmmm
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Hmm, I have no idea what to add, especially since now I know what RVS is...
I don't know, do I roll a dice?
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I suppose I'll do this.
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This is boring.
##Vote PX
Do what? Absolutely nothing?
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##Vote: Bob
No-one stares at me like that! >:<
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hmmmmm
hmmmmmmm
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*Slaps huh what*
##Vote: Doll
Bad grammar, of course.
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Why the need to copy somebody else's jokevote for the exact same reason? Not feeling original?
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*rolls the dice*
Roll comes up Bardiche. Twice.
##Unvote: Doll
##Vote: Bardiche
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##vote: PhoeniX Wrong
as according to LEBS (lynch everyone with bad sigs)
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##Vote: PhoeniX Wrong
I suppose!
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##Vote: PX
Finishing the unfinished job from last game.
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I vote the only one that's hasn't been voted yet that I'm familiar with in mafia, Roukan!
Wait, there's also Neo, Pesco and huhwhat.....
Well, I don't know....
##Vote: Roukan I guess.
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Given that it is common knowledge Bardiche is playing as The Eternally Young Scarlet Moon, is there any particular significance for that, or anything you'd like to share regarding that?
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Hey guys, stop wagoning on my current RVS target. I voted him first and only I can constantly nitpick at him over stupid things. (Though VgT's case is pretty solid.)
also something about four votes. I'm honestly not interested in going after somebody for pushing PX to lynch-whatever after all the ridiculousness that brought us last game, but it would be nice to see something happen around here. So.
##Unvote
##Vote: Doll
Why are you claiming not to know how to participate in the RVS or decide on a randomvote when you succesfully did so in your first game?
Not to mention that your post was also came off as if it was an attempt to seemingly draw attention to your cluelessness. Reads like refuge in audacity in regards to newbie meta to me.
Ninja'd by Doll waffling over a jokevote of all things. Hasn't really changed my mind about that.
Ninja'd by Bob too but I want to get this post out before I get ninja'd a third time.
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##Unvote
##Vote: Bob
Why do you care?
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Oh wait. Before somebody calls me out on hurr misreps, I guess what happened last game was because of the way Bardiche said while jokevoting, not because of how he pushed the person he was voting to whatever votes. My mistake.
Ughhh, I am not thinking clearly right now. <_< Well then.
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blargh why is it that i ignore this topic for a while because nobody is posting and when i decide to post something i get ninja'd like a million times. Okay, so uh, the Bob thing.
... I honestly think we should just ignore Bardiche's role for now. If he had anything to say about it, he would have responded to my post where I pointed it out with more than just "hmmmmm". Trying to outguess the mod on whether or not Remilia would be scum is just going to lead to fence-sitting and we really don't need to have him out his role for scum to see. There is really no point in pressing him on it, really.
Pretty much agree with Pesco on this one, but I want Doll to respond to my post before I consider switching, as to at least get some more discussion going.
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actually no that's stupid what am i thinking
##Unvote
##Vote: Bob
aside from what's already been said, his lack of any sort of vote down doesn't look that great either, he's focusing more on roles than lynching i think
I will post something more coherent/not retarded tomorrow when I'm not tired.
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I care because that is the only other solid information I have about other players. Though, due to the fact pursing this comes dangerously close to rolefishing, I'm not going to be aggressive. Part of it was it jog some real discussion, but I can see the more veteran members picking at some subtler stuff, so let's dance.
Cut by Huh What: Don't get hung up on style, I don't see anything to raise my ire yet. Be patient.
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Before somebody calls me out on hurr misreps, I guess what happened last game was because of the way Bardiche said while jokevoting, not because of how he pushed the person he was voting to whatever votes.
I have no idea what this sentence is supposed to mean
I'd vote bardiche for not belonging in moriya shrine mafia but I guess rvs is already over, lame. ain't no scarlet devil mansion on the youkai mountain come on now people
oh good 200 new posts by huh what while I came up with that sweet joke. huh what you are trying way too hard. "Bob's spending more time thinking about roles than voting" well yeah because he's made One Post so far and it contained one sentence, which was "yo what's up with that public role." jesus dude
Whoops I guess that's two posts now, whatever
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Looking over the last game, I didn't really participate in RVS as I didn't really randomly vote someone. My first was a reaction vote, my second was another reaction vote and my third one was just joining a bandwagon at the last hour. This is my first true RV and well, I have hard time choosing random without instruments for it.
Also going back to reading my post, I forgot Affinity....
##Unvote: Roukan
##Vote: Affinity Since I forgot him.
But wait, wasn't he mafia in the last game....oh well *shrug*
FakeEdit: Gah! Warning - while you were typing 3 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
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Whoops, forgot to add a response to my last post for the three posts that came while I was typing......
I have nothing to add really but I do wonder about Bardiche's role reveal...Is it a mistake by Whitemage?
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Second Count of Day One
Schezo (L-6) Inaba Tewi Hanged Hourai
Hanged Hourai (L-6) Schezo
Robotic Doll.S (L-6) NeoSerela PheoniX Wrong Huh what
PheoniX Wrong (L-4) Huh what VgameT Affinity reVelske
Bob (L-4) Roukanken Inaba Tewi huh what
Bardiche (L-6} PheoniX Wrong
Roukanken (L-7) Robotic Doll.S
Affinity (L-6) Robotic Doll.S
With 13 alive, it takes 7 to fix that.
You have, by my count, 32 hours to decide
A new rule has been added.
...Is it a mistake by Whitemage?
All mistakes in the player list have been corrected.
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Well that's..I don't know. *shrug*
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What has happened while I was away? Nothing has happened since I was away. goddammit serious votes start now.
Bard's role being public knowledge is a nulltell. Bastard mod, doesn't specify whether he's town/scum, we're wasting time talking about it, blah blah blah.
doll what are you doing
'LET'S VOTE PEOPLE WHO ARE GOOD AT THE GAME BECAUSE THEY MIGHT BE SCUM!'
Yes, but they might also be TOWN. Killing off good players just because they're good is bad play, and also the fact you're jumping around voting for good players on no reasoning is bad.
But the grand prize is Bob for ROLEFISHROLEFISHROLEFISH. It's not even the aggressive rolefishing that misguided Townies do, it's the sort of subtle backstepping after he's been caught doing it with lines like
Though, due to the fact pursing this comes dangerously close to rolefishing, I'm not going to be aggressive.
Also, what were you expecting Bard do say even if he did speak about it? If he's Town, he might lie in order to keep himself out of being a target if he's a PR; if he's Scum, he'll come up with something to make him look too valuable to be lynched. Either way, why would you take him as telling the truth, and therefore what use is there in even asking him?
Don't like VgT for calling out HW on the Bob case, especially because Pesco was the one to bring it up first. Doesn't putting actual effort and thought into the case ring more like a Townie [what HW did] than a one-line post with a vote [what Pesco did]?
Vote stays where it is for now.
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goddammit serious votes start now.
Hurrah.
##VOTE: huh what
Slamming Doll over jokevotes, hurr durr. We already know Doll takes the train to derptown every now and again. Calling Bob out for "rolefishing" is also patently stupid because you posted your own curiousity regarding my role before, which I duly responded to. Yes, Bob does raise a frown, but not much so because "Hey Bard ROLECLAIM ON YOUR SECOND POST KTHXPLZ", but because "HEY NOTHING RAISES MY IRE, LET'S SIT BACK YAY".
But that's just because I hate blatantly admitting you're going to lurk and wait for stuff to happen.
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I want to get more people in on this. I don't want them to be lurking around, watching while we forget about them.
##Unvote: Schezo
##Vote: NeoSerela
I have no reason to believe you're town or that you're scum. But rather, I want more people's input on the game.
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goddammit serious votes start now.
I have no reason to believe you're town or that you're scum.
T_T
Day 1 is far too early for lurker hunting. More importantly, why are you asking other people to give their opinions while not giving any yourself?
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I'm not going to be aggressive.
Which means you're not going to scumhunt. This wait-and-see approach is scummy because you're letting other people lead the game. As scum, you wouldn't have to take much responsibility for being wrong if it turned out that way. The holding back on voting is just as bad. The day will likely end in a mad dash for the biggest wagon. If you're not on one of them near the end, you've got a bigger sway on who gets lynched. I can't be allowing that sort of thing to happen when I don't have any reason to believe you're town.
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Clearly, Rou, Doll is claiming third party.
MAN, READ BETWEEN THE LINES
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Hanged Hourai* Man I gotta get the names RIGHT on these jokes.
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Both huh what and bob have something against them. Though I see huh what as trying to be proactive for town, he went and jumped on bob for a reason he pointed out himself and just wasn't as subtle about it.
Bob on the other hand is just taking a sit a wait approach, making him a liability for the town and could easily sway a bandwagon his way since the day is nearing an end and we don't have much to work with still.
##Unvote:
##Vote:Bob
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Schezo got any words other than what I said?
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"Bob's spending more time thinking about roles than voting" well yeah because he's made One Post so far and it contained one sentence, which was "yo what's up with that public role." jesus dude
Instead of being pro-active and getting a vote out/trying to scumhunt even if there was little on the table, he was passive and pressing a point that highly favors scum if information about it is revealed. Said information would also just result in a bunch of null tells for town. There is really no way that his actions benefit us. Yes, the role was public, but I had already pointed it out and there wasn't really much more to discuss about it.
Slamming Doll over jokevotes, hurr durr. We already know Doll takes the train to derptown every now and again.
I don't see what exactly was wrong with voting Doll over a jokevote? The reasoning might have been a bit weak I guess, but at the time I was posting that absolutely nothing was going on and I wanted to get at least some kind of serious vote out. Then of course Bob ninja'd me and serious discussion started right then anyway because I have bad timing. <_< I don't think it was -that- horrible for the first attempt at a serious vote in the game, anyway.
Calling Bob out for "rolefishing" is also patently stupid because you posted your own curiousity regarding my role before, which I duly responded to.
My post was not intended to really ask for information about the role so much and point it out, since somebody had to sooner or later. The hmmmm was a joke, I thought that was pretty obvious but I guess now?
(Also, to add to what Pesco said about Schezo, it seems that his comments on me are parroted from Bard as well. I don't really like this. Is Schezo a new player or something? I have never even seen him post in general until now, not sure.)
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"but I guess now" should say "but I guess not"
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(Yeah I am new to this game.)
I think what Bob is afraid of, or what have you, is if we mislynched a power role that would have put him at a disadvantage since we know that having a bastard mod has already put the game into someones hand. I can't really say much more until we get more commentary back from what Bob thinks about this though.
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... But that makes no sense. Nobody has proposed lynching Bardiche at all so far, and there currently is not much reason to do so. (Though I would like him to explain his case on me a bit better.)
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When did I bring Bardiche into that? Or are you just in general as to what has happened commenting?
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I think what Bob is afraid of, or what have you, is if we mislynched a power role that would have put him at a disadvantage
The way you said this implied that you thought Bob wanted information about Bardiche's apparent power role to make sure the power role didn't get lynched. Or something.
I don't know, I'm kind of having a hard time understanding your post.
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What I meant was he didn't want to vote in general for fear of lynching a power role.
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I only voted Affinity as a joke, since I forgot about him when I joke voted you. Also, I was just commenting at the end that he was mafia last game, so my vote would most likely be wrong *shrug*
So this is serious votes now? ....Well I have no idea, I'll just keep the joke vote until I can vote someone with definite certainty.
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T_T
Day 1 is far too early for lurker hunting. More importantly, why are you asking other people to give their opinions while not giving any yourself?
Because I'm totally new at this. :ohdear:
I need more time to think this through before I say something dumb. :ohdear:
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Which means you're not going to scumhunt. This wait-and-see approach is scummy because you're letting other people lead the game. As scum, you wouldn't have to take much responsibility for being wrong if it turned out that way. The holding back on voting is just as bad. The day will likely end in a mad dash for the biggest wagon. If you're not on one of them near the end, you've got a bigger sway on who gets lynched. I can't be allowing that sort of thing to happen when I don't have any reason to believe you're town.
Allow me to elucidate, aggressive would refer to me regarding the pursuit of Bard outing additional information; not implying to being passive through the entirety of the game. Furthermore, I plain do not subscribe to random voting, calling out that I'm holding back seems like jumping the gun at this juncture. Likewise, I have no particular reason to think that you might be town Pesco.
Bard's said all he'll say at this point regarding the role, so no use looking at that now.
Rou: Let's serious up, part of what I said was to get out of random voting, figured asking about it would attract enough attention.
Hourai: You're not going to somehow divine something, just asking people questions is a pretty good way to start.
##Vote: Inaba Tewi
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that's a sick omgus vote bro, well played
I only voted Affinity as a joke, since I forgot about him when I joke voted you. Also, I was just commenting at the end that he was mafia last game, so my vote would most likely be wrong *shrug*
So this is serious votes now? ....Well I have no idea, I'll just keep the joke vote until I can vote someone with definite certainty.
That isn't how probability works, my friend. Also it's cool to not have any Sweet Ideas to throw out but I'm not sure why you want to leave your vote parked on someone you don't actually think is scum. Speaking of which, ##unvote.
fffuck my break is already over, I'll phonepost with some thoughts a lil later hopefully
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Ok, I'll give this a go.
huh what, you voted for Bob because he was somewhat passive, but he is more proactive and trying to help than some of the other players like VgT, who hasn't really done much.
ninja'd by VgT
Ok, I guess VgT is just nitpicking at Doll right now. But he's right.
So back to my original thought, why go after Bob when you say he's wait-and-see, while others have been less active than him?
And Bob, what do you have to say about what huh what said about you? Your last post didn't address this point.
he was passive and pressing a point that highly favors scum if information about it is revealed. Said information would also just result in a bunch of null tells for town. There is really no way that his actions benefit us
I guess I'm cutting some slack for Affinity and Neo, but I expect to see their input soon.
##Unvote
I really hope I didn't just point a shotgun at myself. :ohdear:
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Being passive while rolefishing is worse than just being passive, though in all honesty I'm not sure who else is being passive here. Perhaps you're mixing that up with what is probably downright lurking?
Also, back when I voted Bob, VgT hadn't even made a serious post, and when he did, he was still giving more input than Bob had, really. Not seeing how VgT has been passive at all, he did attempt to pressure me it seemed, though it wasn't with a vote.
I don't like Bob's OMGUS on Pesco, btw. I don't think he even said why he's voting Pesco beyond that he has no reason to believe Pesco is town (well durr, townies have no reason to believe anybody other than themself is town at this point in the game).
Additionally - not liking Doll for making no sense with his votes and active lurking, and also stating that he too seems to intend to be passive.
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Fuck and piss I deleted my post halfway through typing it. Trying again
huh what: Your weird cluster of posts last night rubbed me the wrong way. You seemed oversensitive about how people were going to respond to you and then you had a weird waffle about Bob right afterwards. The players most worried about how the other players perceive them are not usually the town. You kind of shaped up after you went to bed but I still got my eyes on you, buddy.
Doll: not sure why you thought it ws necessary to switch your joke vote from Rou to Affinity. Then you tried to justify or defend the second jokevote or something? And then you went "I got nothing, but I'm leaving my vote where it is." When do you plan on playing the game? Cuz right now you haven't done anything pro-town.
Bob: That vote was pretty bad. What exactly are you contributing there? I'mma ##vote: Bob for making a ridiculous OMGUS vote with absolutely no rationale or scumhunting attached. That is awful.
shit phone has textfield limit
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Third Count of Day One
Schezo (L-7) Inaba Tewi, Hanged Hourai
Hanged Hourai (L-7) Schezo
Robotic Doll.S (L-6) NeoSerela, PheoniX Wrong, Huh what
PheoniX Wrong (L-4) Huh what, VgameT, Affinity, reVelske
Bob (L-3) Roukanken, Inaba Tewi, huh what, Schezo
Bardiche (L-6} PheoniX Wrong
Roukanken (L-7) Robotic Doll.S
Affinity (L-6) Robotic Doll.S
Huh What (L-6) Bardiche
NeoSerela (L-6) Hanged Hourai
Inaba Tewi (L-6) Bob
13 Alive, 7 to lynch
there are 16 hours left in the day.
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Affinity and reV: You both jumped on PX right after me, making you the 3rd and 4th votes respectively, and then haven't posted since. So, that's cool.
(note: not actually cool, please come play mafia)
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I was just correcting Rou's wrong assumption, since he accused me of choosing Affinity's cause he was a good player.
As for keeping my vote on Affinity, well, I guess I can unvote...
##Unvote: Affinity
As to huhwhat, I'm passive because, well, I'm not really good at being aggressive. Sigh.
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People are still jumping on easy targets for easy reasons without really considering exactly how such things are scummy especially when done by newbies. The success rate of rolefishing is too ludicrously low early game to be worth doing so blatantly, and it seems to be a reasonable thing to do to pass the time for newer players who don't really have much experience at this game. Thus, I can't see what all this opportunistic hubbub on Bob really is; he can be either scum or town. Of course, there's a contradiction between what he said about 'not random voting' and OMGUSing pesco all the same, which raises eyebrows, but still it's not exactly scummy (e.g doesn't lead to anything; could be used as scum to pass the time in the worst possible manner but there are many others at the moment who are 'passing the time')
The people I am more interested in for now are Schezo, huhwhat and Rou. Schezo is the most suspicious for the classic bandwagon jump + parrot thing, which serves to close in on a lynch while being as silent as possible (not done well). Schezo, do you have anything else on anyone else?
huhwhat is suspicious for tripping over himself regarding rolefishing; saying that 'we should honestly not talk about Bard's role' as if replying to an honest mistake and then later going 'oh yeah Bob is scummy for that', which rubs me off the wrong way.
Roukanken also seems rather wonky; he mildly defends huhwhat even though he hasn't replied to VgT yet here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg532819.html#msg532819) and arbitrarily decides that newbies would only go for agressive role-fishing as if all newbies were one and the same, which smells of easy jumping. He even admits himself that such a rolefish would be pointless in the first place... so how is it actively scummy?
##Vote: Schezo
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huhwhat is suspicious for tripping over himself regarding rolefishing; saying that 'we should honestly not talk about Bard's role' as if replying to an honest mistake and then later going 'oh yeah Bob is scummy for that', which rubs me off the wrong way.
How can saying both of those things in the same post be considered as "later"? When I said I "Pretty much agree with Pesco on this one", I intended to imply that I found Bob scummy for the rolefishing (since Pesco had voted Bob for it).
Unless you're going by vote times, in which case I intended to switch to Bob when I posted that (provided he didn't start looking better), but I also wanted to see Doll respond to me (except I realized I didn't need my vote sitting on Doll for him to do that and switched it like 10 minutes later after realizing how stupid that was). Still, I did not post a quip about Bob only to go back and accuse him later like you claim.
The success rate of rolefishing is too ludicrously low early game to be worth doing so blatantly, and it seems to be a reasonable thing to do to pass the time for newer players who don't really have much experience at this game.
Not really agreeing with this defense. I personally can see new!scum choosing to open up the game by trying to get role information out of somebody so that their team is more prepared, if they do not realize that they'll probably be caught for rolefishing. Plus, with Bard's rolename essentially being confirmed, it would seem like low-hanging fruit for the taking, and curiosity regarding it would also be easier to pass off as townie.
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(note: not actually cool, please come play mafia)
I'm playing Mafia by observing you people arguing over pointless crap. Don't let me stop you though, do continue. I'll let you know when I have an opinion, until then: Reply hazy, ask again later.
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Now from what reVelske said just now is curious because he decides to not do anything at all to aid the town in trying to get some actual discussion going that will prove useful later on. He calls our current discussions pointless crap yet does nothing to add to it and also admitted to active lurking, so whenever he does post his opinion, it better be insightful. I will have to wait for your commentary to convince me now that you aren't scum. However, bringing your opinion too late will probably sway a bandwagon into getting a random lynch and leaving us with less to work with on day 2.
Until then I'll keep my vote where it is for now.
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that is not how you play mafia, unless you are bad
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uhh that was in response to reV btw
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First off, ##Unvote
On to the Bob case, gets caught trying to fish out a role, and he tries to back off and wait for another wagon. Don't like that at all. And his last post just looks like an omgus post, while saying nothing at all.
Schezo, your original comments make absolutely no sense. In addition to your parrot + wagon, what you say afterwards looks like you're trying to defend the person you're voting for? By the way, ReV just commented on the current topics by calling them crap, and even though he admits to lurking, he's not trying to shrink off into the shadows. And based on how he did last game, even though his methods are not loved in the slightest, he does bring good comments.
##Vote: Schezo
Fakeedit: Also, jumping on easy targets
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Do you mean your jumping on a easy target or that Rev and Schezo are jumping on easy target?
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Schezo is
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Mod: VgT unvoted here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533124.html#msg533124), and voted for Bob here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533198.html#msg533198), but neither were obvious. the most current vote count does not reflect this.
The rationale from voting Pesco comes from the subtlety of the tone. I thought he was jumping of the gun in accusing me of lurking, withholding my vote, attempting a masterstroke for bandwagon manipulation, and predicting a mad dash for votes when the day was not even half over. The fact Schezo nearly mimcked this, including the rush for time, even before the day was half over (again) is glaring, and has surpassed Pesco is suspiciousness. Furthermore, Schz hasn't responded to accusations, and half-gives rV a free ride for cruising on by in his latest post, not to mention it contributed next to nothing.
Also, I knew I'd reap the whirlwind for asking Bard. I was prepared to get nothing, or even get lied to. Due to this, I did not commit myself to that line of thought. I'm not shirking responsibility, because I sure am getting whacked for sticking out.
And Bob, what do you have to say about what huh what said about you? Your last post didn't address this point.
I guess I'm cutting some slack for lurkers (even if they are good), but I expect to see their input soon.
Pesco's and Huhwhat's reasoning is effectively the same. Their points are valid, but, not necessarily correct, I could be the scum they say I am, or I could just be a misguided town with a strike against me.
And regarding Free Rides: Don't.
##Unvote
##Vote:Schezo
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I agree with the reasons and rationale behind voting Schezo. I don't have much more to contribute without just copying someone else, it's all been said before. So I guess I'm going to jump on.
##Vote: Schezo
I still want to see what Neo is going to contribute to this. That little box next to your name was green for a while.
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Bob and Schezo are at L-3 by my count. The speed of it bothers me a lot. Hourai's #71 and the vote followup from Bob feels wrong.
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#71, I was just trying to contribute so I actually had something to say.
And as for my vote, I see the rationale behind voting Schezo, regardless of who went before me.
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Pesco: Bob is at L-2, actually. Zakeri didn't count VgT's vote. Also, what exactly feels wrong to you about Hourai's #71? I can think of a fair deal of incorrect assumptions he seemed to make in it, but it'd be nice to at least know what you're getting at since I can't read minds.
In all honesty, the speed the Schezo wagon has been increasing is a little disturbing in my opinion, since Affinity's vote on him is the only one that really makes sense to me. It is a bit irritating that Schezo has not returned to defend himself, however. Hourai's vote is especially suspect, as if it is an attempt to close up distance between the wagons. In fact Hourai has been meh in general so far since his only other contribution other than lurkerprods was a bit of somewhat illogical pressure on me and VgT that he let up pretty easily.
Bob: Is there any particular reason you didn't explain your Pesco vote at the time you voted him?
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Bob your vote against me if really weak. You have gone back and forth on yourself, such as when you voted Tewi because of your "subltiy of your tone (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533346.html#msg533346) and, just seeming like a vote, when you did not earlier mention anything about it here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533104.html#msg533104) Then you decide to just bandwagon me because of what Affinity said earlier. You're just trying to alleviate the pressure off you and go after someone else.
Then, Hourai decides to just jump right on without even giving any reason whatsoever than just "the reasons and rationale behind voting me." (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533368.html#msg533368) Why don't you just put forth a little evidence because without it, it doesn't really mean much and you could just be quick voting an easy target to get a fast lynch.
My vote is staying where it is, on Bob, because he's shown to be the most scummy at this point.
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edit: Ninja'd since Tewi. so I didn't adress huh what's statements. My point still stands on Hourai.
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Aw crud. I knew I would make a noob mistake sooner or later.
And Schezo, POINTING THE FINGER WITHOUT EVEN DEFENDING YOURSELF AGAIN.
Step up your game, bro.
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I think Hourai just can't think of anything to say and really did agree with what Bob said, I know I was like that and still is too :P
But the way he joined the bandwagon...was I like that? I know I was accused of joining the bandwagon...
Also, where are you Neo? You haven't said anything since the jokevote on me.
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Dangitt, I never said I agreed with Bob.
Affinity's vote on him is the only one that really makes sense to me.
Wutcha know? It makes sense to me too.
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*Looks at Hourai's post* Oh, your right. I just thought you agreed with Bob because since your post came after his one.
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Fine can of fish. It looks like I'm going to be unfunnied for nine days. So do I have to get my own replacement, or is the court going to provide one for me?
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... I'm pretty sure unfunnied members can post in Rumia's Party Games. Unless I missed something.
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On further review, I can't even find any instance of you getting unfunnied from your recent posting history. Confused.
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Dude, I promise that I'm not making this up.
I know when to draw lines for this kind of stuff.
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Also, I have no idea what a unfunny entails. Someone else clear this up? I don't want a replacement if I don't need one.
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I'm pretty sure it just means you can't post in CPMC.
But it would probably be best to talk about this in a seperate thread, as not to clog up the game.
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Right, nevermind, back on track with the game.
\o/
So Schezo... any defense?
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#71 had a weak prod at Bob. There was no scumhunting intent behind it as it didn't pressure Bob in any way. When Affinity comes with the next best thing, he takes it right away without any analysis. Hourai talked nothing on Schezo before, what was the buildup of evidence? So what if you agree. Anyone would agree with a case that doesn't paint them as scum. Why do you agree?
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#71, I was asking questions to just get a feel for everything. No ill intents toward anyone.
As for why I'm voting Schezo, we've pretty much asked him for any kind of defense, and he hasn't come up with one at at all.
*suspicious*
And then when we see the pressure start to be directed towards me before, Schezo goes for it too. Take the pressure off himself.
POINTING THE FINGER, STILL NO DEFENSE AT ALL.
All these things make me very wary of him. Which is why I'm voting for him.
Also, Neo, where are you? I do not want Neo to cruise past D1 without doing anything at all.
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Also, I knew I'd reap the whirlwind for asking Bard. I was prepared to get nothing, or even get lied to. Due to this, I did not commit myself to that line of thought. I'm not shirking responsibility, because I sure am getting whacked for sticking out.
So you asked about Bard's role with the expectation that you would not actually receive any sort of meaningful result? "I will do a useless thing, which will draw everyone's attention toward me with no actual benefit." Maybe not the best plan.
Affinity: I don't get what you mean by 'pass the time.' AFAIK the point of the game is to find and lynch the scum? 'Pass the time' sounds like the equivalent of making a post without adding anything new to the discussion, which is something people probably shouldn't be doing.
reVelske: uh no seriously "you're all idiots and I have nothing to say" is not helpful, if you're unwilling to make a useful post or even give an opinion on the current vote leaders you are probably scum hth
I think what Bob is afraid of, or what have you, is if we mislynched a power role that would have put him at a disadvantage since we know that having a bastard mod has already put the game into someones hand. I can't really say much more until we get more commentary back from what Bob thinks about this though.
I kind of can't make sense of this. You were voting for Bob at the time, so you obviously found him scummy; why would scum not want us to lynch a power role? Like, what exactly is the logic behind this statement? Actually a lot of the things you say don't really make sense :G
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You're all idiots and I have nothing to say. :V
@Hourai: Schezo is a pile of useless confusion, but how's any of what you're accusing him of actually scummy?
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I'm not entirely convinced he's scum. But if the dude can't make an argument on why he should stay in the game, then the dude should not stay in the game. Regardless of affiliation.
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it is not helpful for town players to die, unless you are not part of the town
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That is not what you use your vote for.
##Non-Existant Second Vote: Hourai
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::)
I haven't seen a shred of evidence that make me think he's town. I said I wasn't entirely convinced, but I do think he errs on the side of scum.
That was just bad wording before, there's no way to be entirely convinced.
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Honestly tempted to vote Hourai right now, but would rather not tie up the wagons since I (probably) won't be around for deadline. Aside from what myself and others have already said, this moon logic of "there's no evidence that he's town so I'm going to vote him regardless of whether he's probably scum or town" when there's no real actual "evidence" anyone is town right now is downright awful. Doesn't help that the lack of conviction in his votes is kind of reminding me of Serela from PoS.
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Well what would you suggest since there's no way to prove innocence? Someone is going to get lynched today. Grace us with your insight.
Meanwhile, I'm going to stick to my guns and vote for the guy who I think is scummy.
And if this is about you personally thinking Schezo's innocent, I'm not the only one voting for him.
And again, why is no one saying anything about Neo? I've seen that little green box light up a few times. That's actually the scummiest thing going on right now.
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Yeah Neo's being a real PoS right now, if you know what I mean :trollface:
It'd be cool to hear from Bob as well.
IMO people are reading Schezo as derp instead of scummy. Derps are fine if they can find a townie and follow. Affinity presented a case on Schezo, Bob's vote is self-preservation. I forget who was second. Your vote is really meh, from everyone's view and your own. Appeal to majority fail.
Using activity times to judge scumminess is a poor reason unless you know the person really well. As in you're a creepy stalker. Or just be able to mindread like me. :V
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And again, why is no one saying anything about Neo? I've seen that little green box light up a few times. That's actually the scummiest thing going on right now.
Neo sux but since he hasn't made a single game-related post (RVS vote doesn't count for anything) I don't think you can read his absence one way or another. There's not we can do other than wait for him to post or get replaced, really. I don't think he would be a good lynch right now, and there's nothing to say about him other than "where's that guy" which you've done for us already, three times.
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Affinity's vote on Schz brought the case to the forefront, sure, but Pesco (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg532975.html#msg532975) and HuhWhat (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg532982.html#msg532982) already pointed it out. Pesco's tunneling on me, trying to paint me as scummy as can be, would obviously raise my ire. The fact that he was already rushing for time at that point is something that struck me as odd. I hadn't put down a vote yet, and Pesco felt like the best choice at that point. (Personal bias be damned.) I am aware of the speed at which the Schz wagon built up, but I think it is best to put my vote on who I think is most suspicious.
Schz, are there any other particular players that strike you as scummy?
Pesco, I can see what you're saying about Hourai's weak scum hunting, however, he feels more like a new guy, and you're playing hardball.
rV: Got an opinion yet?
RomNeo, Romneo, wherefore art thou RomNeo?
Edit: A million cuts:
VgT: Gotta do something to get people to start being serious.
Pesco: You needed something?
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Well what would you suggest since there's no way to prove innocence? Someone is going to get lynched today. Grace us with your insight.
Meanwhile, I'm going to stick to my guns and vote for the guy who I think is scummy.
... But you just said you weren't convinced Schezo was scum yet and wanted him lynched regardless of alignment for not defending himself rather than for being scummy. The closest you actually got to saying the person you were voting for is scum in this recent back-and-forth is the whole "(schezo) errs on the side of scum" thing, but that came off as if you were going "yeah I guess he's kind of scummy" after being pressured about your illogical voting. Again, there is a major lack of conviction behind your opinions.
And if this is about you personally thinking Schezo's innocent, I'm not the only one voting for him.
When did I say that I personally thought Schezo is innocent? Not sure where you're getting that impression. If it's because I'm not voting him, then yeah, I'm probably not going to be voting him when I feel there are scummier players alive, ie Bob and you. It does not help that the content from the latter three people on his wagon has been rather unimpressive.
Oh, something partially related to the end of that last paragraph: Did I ever mention that I think PX voting Schezo in part for putting pressure on a lurker who PX thinks made good contributions last game is illogical and looks a bit like a chainsaw? Because I think that PX voting Schezo in part for putting pressure on a lurker who PX thinks made good contributions last game is illogical and looks a bit like a chainsaw. He needs to post something worthwhile about a player who isn't Schezo, too. No, the Bob-related IIoA about at the top of his only serious post does not count as worthwhile. I am honestly not sure why everybody has overlooked himso far.
Also, Hourai, I just want to point out that your wagon jump on Schezo is pretty much of the same ilk as Schezo's jump on Bob. Why should you be exempt from your own reasons to vote somebody, if you supposedly agree with Affinity so much?
Ninja'd by Bob, but his post doesn't really change my opinions at all.
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Crud monkeys. It's midnight. I'll try to get up early enough to get a decent reply in. >.< Sorry!
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@huhwhat:
Oh, I see what you mean; I thought you were more on Doll the first post when I glanced through the topic; missed the 'agree with pesco part.' As for the rolefishing thing, I have honestly never seen a rolefish work at unnecessary times before; I would imagine that newbie town and scum alike would want to know about the roles of other people without considering the implications equally... Still however, Bob's latest new vote makes me want to do a 180 on him, even among the remarkably fast and dubious votes by everyone else. Schezo seems to sum it up nicely.
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@Bob:
Bob your vote against me if really weak. You have gone back and forth on yourself, such as when you voted Tewi because of your "subltiy of your tone and, just seeming like a vote, when you did not earlier mention anything about it here. Then you decide to just bandwagon me because of what Affinity said earlier. You're just trying to alleviate the pressure off you and go after someone else.
Come to think of it, the evidence for voting Schezo was all there even when Bob voted Tewi, but he only voted after I did. While I was mildly okay with Bob's first vote (in comparison to everyone else not contributing like reV), him changing the explanation for his vote later on, proclaiming his rolefish as a gambit, (e.g I knew that negative attention would happen but I did it anyway) and segueing into a vote on Schezo only after me and PX had voted him is pretty scummy and makes his vote on pesco look like a resting point for a later opportunistic jump; more so than Schezo's. The post above me even adds personal bias to the list of supposed reasons against pesco, which does not add up. I'm not sure why no one paid attention to the above (including Bob), but I would like this answered; since this is a point that wasn't mentioned.
@mod: Can we have a votecount?
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@VgT: By passing the time I meant that scum in general want to lay low without drawing too much attention to themselves, preferably in the least obvious way possible. Not the way to play the game for town, but perhaps it is for scum.
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Affinity: Sure there was probably more personal bias than I'd like to admit in my first vote on Pesco. Last game I played with him, I found that the playstyle rubs me the wrong way. Aggressively painting someone as scum can easily lead to mislynches, and one can easily get away with purposely misleading others with it because they are "scum-hunting". Also, negative attention is not that bad, it helps learn trial by fire in the least.
In hindsight, it is obvious Schz would have been a more logical first vote, but at the time Pesco was asking more than he was: Ended up focusing on Pesco more, and Schz went under the Bobdar.
I'd imagine it seems like I'm changing my reasons for voting Pesco, but I am attempting to lay bare the entirety of my thought process, and every little thing that registers to me regarding that.
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Oh for the
3 pages? I go sleep for a night and there are 3 pages? What is this I don't even.
I'm going to do my best to keep this consise because the last thing we need is more walls and more signs of the attitude Hourai is starting to give off. Being an ass (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533480.html#msg533480) does not improve your chances of finding scum.
OK, so looking at people.
Bob first because my vote's on him right now.
Allow me to elucidate, aggressive would refer to me regarding the pursuit of Bard outing additional information; not implying to being passive through the entirety of the game.
"So just because I'm going to be passive on this one point doesn't mean I'm going to be passive elsewhere, guys! Promise!"
Town do not do shit half-heartedly. Unlike scum they are not trying to produce a case they know is false. They are looking to make something genuine, something believable. Also unlike scum they aren't quite as frightened of getting lynched - because they know they're Town and thus it's wrong to lynch them - and thus Townies should be taking risks and being aggressive rather than letting scum control the tempo of the game.
Rou: Let's serious up, part of what I said was to get out of random voting, figured asking about it would attract enough attention.
Because making a passing reference to something everyone had already seen at this point and not pressing further was sure to produce a useful amount of response. Of course.
Pesco's and Huhwhat's reasoning is effectively the same. Their points are valid, but, not necessarily correct, I could be the scum they say I am, or I could just be a misguided town with a strike against me.
"So I admit that their cases make sense, but really! I'm not scum! I swear!"
negative attention is not that bad
Except that Town would RATHER PAY ATTENTION TO SCUM THAN HAVE TIME WASTED ON THEMSELVES?
Other players of note that have emerged since my last post!
ReV makes me want to cry. 'Sup guys, NOT GOING TO CONTRIBUTE AT ALL TODAY BECAUSE I THINK YOU'RE ALL STUPID'.
Schezo is a headache in that he makes no sense. The problem I have is that there's nothing outright malicious in what he's said - it's derp rather than scummy - and yet four votes fell on him in the space of about 20 posts, one of which was Bob suddenly jumping away from his new OMGUS Pesco case. Compared to Bob, it definitely carries a bigger feel of scum-panic-wagon.
@Affinity:
Roukanken also seems rather wonky; he mildly defends huhwhat even though he hasn't replied to VgT yet here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg532819.html#msg532819) and arbitrarily decides that newbies would only go for agressive role-fishing as if all newbies were one and the same, which smells of easy jumping. He even admits himself that such a rolefish would be pointless in the first place... so how is it actively scummy?
Firstly, 'he's scummy for disagreeing with a line of thought because the target hasn't agreed first!' is a line of reasoning I don't like. Bad logic is bad logic, and if I have a problem with it I don't see why I shouldn't bring it up right away rather than waiting on HW to respond.
Secondly, see what I said above to Bob about being aggressive and being passive. Townies should be basically doing everything whole-hearted because unlike scum they have nothing to hide. If Bob wanted to know about Bard's role honestly, I can't help but think he'd have been more open about it rather than 'Oh btw Bard what's with the whole remilia thi-oh, hey, I'm getting bandwagoned! Never mind.'
Finally, there's always the obvious point of 'scum wants to clog up Town's thought process with useless information and arguing'. Bard's role, again, is a nulltell, but it's out-of-the-ordinary enough that scum could potentially start a stupid argument over it which ends up solving just about nothing.
Hell, in general, I don't like the holier-than-thou attitude of your post. Just the whole 'oh btw all you people who are talking so far are stupid for not considering the case well enough' feel.
Other people who stand out to me? PX for opportunistic jump onto Schezo, Hourai for being the 4th on the wagon and generally serving to flare up tempers [at least my own]. In general I'm convinced the Schezo wagon has bad roots, and I really don't think Schezo's derp is as bad as what other people have done today.
This'll probably be my last post before deadline, so I'm sticking with my vote on Bob.
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Before reposing, should be up by nightfall, I'd like to look a little more into Schz. He hasn't really said much else about anyone other than me, and has not responded to others' prods at him. He initially voted for Bob because I brought up Bard's role and because he thought I would be a liability to town. Pesco, Bard, Huh all came up with similar thoughts, and it isn't unlikely he could have arrived at this conclusion on his own. The predicting a rush for time though
The day will likely end in a mad dash for the biggest wagon.
since the day is nearing an end and we don't have much to work with still.
is something I really don't like. Town shouldn't be rushed. The fact Schz incorporates this line of thought would lend weight to his post is not being original, and would be his first strike. Schz has not addressed this, nor has responded to questions, and has mostly been tunneling on me.
From this side of the Berlin Wall, Schezo is what makes me most suspicious.
Cut by Rou: Relax. As town I took a risk, HuhWhat and Bard's "Hmmm" battle was not clear enough, maybe any public aspect of role would have been something benign enough the Bard would have been willing to share. As Town, I have the least starting information, checking for something small would add to what I know, and would hopefully start generating conversation. And I still don't think negative attention is bad, if enough of a stink is raised, you can see who passed gas in later days.
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@Bob:
How is bad advice scummy? It's not as if townies can't give bad advice, and it's not as if everyone will follow it. Also, how are you not tunneling on Schezo as well?
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Won't be around for the deadline, but in any case, I'm quite torn between the two. Bob could have made a case on Schezo before I voted, but he merely just voted pesco first, shrugged it off with too many interesting but ineffectual and contradictory reasons after the fact and joined a proceeding bandwagon.for mostly unoriginal reasons (the post above mine is original but does not make sense). Schezo went unto the Bob bandwagon copying pesco's reasons, but then turned around after Bob made that votechange with an insight I think rings true. I don't think defending himself would do any good despite what Hourai and Bob seem to be saying; the fact is already done, so why challenge it at all? His strengthening of his vote using Bob's post was pretty good in my opinion and better than any 'defense'. Furthermore, there's the thing about PX and Hourai easily jumping onto Schezo for easy jumping onto Bob, which is very stupid.
So even though Schezo sort of sinned first, I'll go with Bob as my vote, due to the above changes throughout today. Hopefully this means that he's at L-1.
##Unvote
##Vote: Bob
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reVelske: uh no seriously "you're all idiots and I have nothing to say" is not helpful, if you're unwilling to make a useful post or even give an opinion on the current vote leaders you are probably scum hth
I have to sleep, you know, and it's the god damn weekend, let the man get up at 12 and enjoy his day a little at least?
Now from what reVelske said just now is curious because he decides to not do anything at all to aid the town in trying to get some actual discussion going that will prove useful later on.
Oh how you exaggerate so elegantly, my dear. I decided not to do anything? At all? Curious? Is it really? I did say I'm observing, I'm no fan of Day One turd-pelting (aka "scum hunting" for day one as some people would like to think it is), as much as it helps to get things going and promote discussions, I have no desire to join in and would prefer to have something more solid to stand on before I try give people shit speak my mind. If you enjoy arguing shit, do continue, it is, as said, beneficial for the town to some degree, but don't expect everyone to want to join in.
And my opinion will come when I see fit.
it is not helpful for town players to die, unless you are not part of the town
Yes it is, less players in game = higher chance of getting scum next day, this is the first day, the chance of finding a scum is absolutely minimal unless the scums are utter retards, only undesirable outcome would be if we hit a PR.
that is not how you play mafia, unless you are bad
That is not how YOU play mafia, perhaps, how I play it is for me to decide, and considering my own track records, I'd say your definition of "bad" needs to be revise.
Nonetheless, I see absolutely no merit in all the accusations of Bob's "rolefishing" and passiveness, neither with those against his voting actions. On the other hand, I can't say I enjoy Schezo's posts, who seems to be trying hard to soun pro-town whilst adding diddly squat. As much as I would throw him a vote, he did say he was "new", and I have a personal policy of not assist lynching anyone new to the game unless I'm shitsure they are scum, soooo... *slouches back*
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^ Accidentally edited for grammar (and there are still grammar issues), habits, apologies.
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Pls vote yourself rev kthnx
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I like my vote being on PX because he actually defended me, I don't need a fanclub.
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Fourth Count of Day One
Schezo (L-4) Inaba Tewi, Hanged Hourai, Affinity, PhoeniX Wrong, Bob, Hanged Hourai
Hanged Hourai (L-7) Schezo
Robotic Doll.S (L-6) NeoSerela, PheoniX Wrong, Huh what
PheoniX Wrong (L-6) Huh what, VgameT, Affinity, reVelske
Bob (L-1) Roukanken, Inaba Tewi, huh what, Schezo, VgameT, Affinity
Bardiche (L-7} PheoniX Wrong
Roukanken (L-7) Robotic Doll.S
Affinity(L-7) ]Robotic Doll.S
Huh What (L-6) Bardiche
NeoSerela (L-7) Hanged Hourai
Inaba Tewi (L-7) Bob
13 Alive, 7 to lynch
Bob is current at L-1
2.5 Hours Left.
Also, a Gentle reminder to always use the Reply button found at the bottom of top of every page each time you need to add something, including grammar.
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@mod: The nonvotes are impossible to tell apart from the votes in your vote count. Use italics, underline or strikethrough only pls.
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"Bu-b-b-but, Mistress! You said I could relax!"
Remilia shook her head. "But you've relaxed too much. I'm afraid it's time for you to return home." And with that, Bob was sent back to the Scarlet Devil Mansion with rather little fanfare. "...Wait a minute! Why are you using my name?" Remilia shouted in shock. "Dammit, Kanako!"
"That's 'Dammit, Lady Kanako!' to you. Minus two Charisma."
Remilia Fumed a little.
Bob was lynched, and therefore sent home. He was Hong Meiling, Vanilla Townie.
It is now Night 1. Those with actions, please submit them.
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Last night, Inaba Tewi who was actually Hatate Himekaido, Vanilla Townie was killed by the Mafia.
"Now, you lucky survivors, get the chance to take out a lucky Shrine Fortune" A Shelf of many cubbyholes with green and blue tags hanging out of them is wheeled into the front of the Shrine. "Everyone who's still in the game, come on up and pull out a fortune! Who knows? One of you might be really lucky!"
"But first, a Message from the wonderful and lovable Bob, who is no longer with us today."
"No harm; No foul. Still have much to learn. Remember to have fun along the way."
Remilia was the first to step up. She pulls out a fortune briskly and charismatically, and read it aloud.
"Double Lucky!" It read. "Your vote counts twice for this day phase."
The others drew back. It seemed this fortune would be another wrench thrown into the works.
Huh what went next, and pulled out his fortune.
"Double Lucky!" It read. "Your vote counts twice for this day phase."
Huh what was confused, but took some solace from the fact that his vote would not easily be drowned out. Roukanken went up next, and pulled out another fortune.
"Double Lucky!" It read. "Yo(ry
...Everyone had pulled out a fortune, and much to Lady Kanako's shock and dismay, they were all the same one.
"W...Well then! With ... 22 *grk* Votes in play, it takes 12 votes to lynch. Or in other words, with 11 People in play, it takes 6 to Lynch."
Later that day, Lady Kanako would be seen hitting Lady Suwako with a rolled up newspaper shouting "MAKE. SURE. THEY. ARE. ALL. DIFFERENT."
With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to lynch
Day ends January 26th, at 1:30 p.m. EST
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Stuff came up, and I do not have the time nor mental power to commit to playing Mafia right now. I have to replace out.
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And now for something completely different.
##Vote: reVelske
He was around at the end of the day, and yet he didn't give two shits about the conversation that had taken up the entire day. What does he do instead? Dumps his vote on PX where it'll do absolutely nothing.
The other person I'm looking awkwardly at after D1 is Hourai. Spends pretty much the entire day tunnelling Schezo insanely hard, and Pesco had dumped a suspicion vote on him shortly preceding the night kill [true, potentially circumstantial, which is why my vote is currently on reV].
I'm still thinking Schezo is Town. At the very least, he's not done anything that I wouldn't write up as being more than just derpy, but now D2 has hit I'd hope to see more opinions from the people who've been quiet like him. [Save Neo, hope things work out :<]
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Well, your conversation was shit, you people attacked Bob for the apparent "rolefishing" when all he did was show curiosity over the fact that single role was made public, and some accused him of being passive simply because he did not make a RvS vote, now it is somehow my problem that I did not want to jump in something as unwarranted as that? PX vote was a RvS vote, and I have reasoned why I do not wish to jump on either of the wagons and why I have no interesting in flinging shit at people (especially when I don't even have any meta to work off considering I'm still relatively new to the board), sooo... deal with it?
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And hey look, Bardiche actually posted less than me and also did not have his vote on the wagons, but that clearly did not warrant any precious attention from you, ysoselective?
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Pesco had dumped a suspicion vote on him shortly preceding the night kill
So? VgT and I were pressuring Hourai as well and IIRC I even said I wanted to vote Hourai, but we're still alive. NK analysis is silly, there are a number of other reasons Pesco could have died as well. I don't really understand why you're going there.
Will post something more substantial later, I'm a bit tied up as is but wanted to say this because that part of Rou's post kind of bugged me.
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Rev your right in that Bardiche posted less then you but then you did kinda make yourself a target in actually saying you'll be lurking or something like that, where else Bardiche could be gone for other reasons other then lurking like Neo was.
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Also, I wonder why Whitemage mentioned Remilia (Bardiche), huhwhat and Roukan in the post specifically...Were they randomly chosen?
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TBH, there's a difference between choosing to observe and comment only when see fit and choosing to "lurk", buuuuuuut I suppose lurk is lurk regardless of the nature and how one reasons it, in that sense, I find it mildly annoying how Roukan chose to single me out when there are on others are on the same boat.
And Bard has been on the forum towards the end of Day One.
And considering how whitemage wrote that everyone pulled out their fortune, one would be wise to assume it is random and not look too deep into the flavoured text.
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Oh my fuckin god I've typed a post out with my god damn thumbs twice now and both times I've gotten logged out before I finished so it just redirects me to the login page and then the post is gone aarrrrghhghhhghgh
I'm not doin it again so I'll make it when I'm on lunch in an hour but for now here's this
vote: reVelske. you're bad, get dead
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I have to apologize for my weak D1 play. This is the last time I?m going to do this, but I?m going to pull out my newb card. Everyone here is more experienced than me and more familiar, playing hardball. I?m not going to be weak like that anymore.
With that said:
##Vote: Schezo
This entire time, we?ve seen him defenseless. And you guys just write it off as him being a derp/confused. AND MAYBE THAT?S WHAT HE WANTS. He could be a scumbag hiding behind that as a shield, and you guys just fall straight for it. It?s been working perfectly so far.
His derpiness is the perfect natural defense.
And now, if indeed Schezo is the scum I think him to be, then that means that at least one of the people who?ve just said that he?s a derp and defended him could be scum themselves. They go along with the whole confused gimmick and the rest of us just believe it.
If we can reach a consensus on Schezo, and he indeed proves to be scum like I think, then we can assume at least one of his defenders is also scum.
This plan has the capability to snuff out a scum and identify others.
I'm town. I have nothing to hide. And I am going to stick with my opinion until proven otherwise. No more weak sauce for me. I am voting with conviction, baby!
*Hanged Hourai steps up his game
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woo OK
reV: You've done absolutely nothing the entire game. Day 1 you did nothing until people called you out on it, then you went "you're all idiots" and continued doing nothing. When pressed you went "what I meant was, you're all fucking idiots, and I'm not saying anything until I feel like it." Well done! Saying that day 1 arguments are helpful and then saying that you're not going to participate in them does not make you look smart. It actually just makes you look extremely scummy.
So you thought that the reasons everyone put forward weren't enough to justify a lynch of Bob or Schezo, but you didn't actually provide any kind of alternative, or do anything to convince people to look at other players. Basically, you were fine with anyone getting lynched, as long as you weren't attached. That's also extremely scummy! Coming back day 2 and pointing out why you thought the case against Bob was not valid after he already flipped town is not the masterstroke you think it is.
We're into Day 2 and you have not made a serious vote for anyone, or stated your opinion on any living player. All your posts are responses to people calling you out on your weak play. What have you done to help the town this game? When are you going to start playing mafia?
That is not how YOU play mafia, perhaps, how I play it is for me to decide, and considering my own track records, I'd say your definition of "bad" needs to be revise.
well considering your track record this game I'd say you're bad lmfao peace
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Got some time now, so here we go.
First things first, despite the pressure I put on him yesterday, I'm beginning to think of Hourai as town, because I cannot possibly think of a reason scum would want to park their vote on Schezo at that point if they knew Bob would flip town. While it could be so that scum!Hourai wouldn't get caught being on a townie wagon, the fact that he was also pushing the Schezo wagon to an extent that it looked like it could possibly tie up with and then surpass Bob's, this seems rather unlikely. His actions are still kind of argh, though, and I would appreciate it if he at least responded to my question to him at the bottom of this post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533496.html#msg533496)
Anyway. I really really do not like reVelske for cheerleading the Schezo wagon at the end of the day yet giving him a pass just for being a newbie, and also not providing any alternatives either even though he hated the Bob case as well. The Bob part specifically comes off as scum trying to get townie cred for being against a popular townie wagon, except it does not work because reV did not explain why he disapproved of the case or even say anything against it until Bob was almost guaranteed to be the day's lynch, which is argh and does nothing to serve town. Another problem with reVelske is that while everybody complained about his lack of contribution D1, even today he still has not provided anything worthwhile about who he thinks we should lynch and is only focusing on how bad he thinks D1 was. Stop living in the past and start hunting scum.
##Vote reVelske
(Fake Edit: Okay, so it turns out VgT pretty much covered most of what I've been wanting to say about Velske. <_< Going to show my work and keep the paragraph above anyway to at least be more specific than "I agree hurr durr".)
Additionally, Schezo's actions from day 1 look a lot worse with Bob's flip, since he did indeed help certify a townie wagon as the day's lynch fairly early on. I'm not too sure why Rou is reading him entirely as a derp (this is essentially a request to Rou for a better explanation). It does not help that a lot of Schezo's opinions from day 1 came off as parroting, so I would like to at least see him to post something today that is not a regurgitation of another person's words.
By the way, everyone is cutting Bardiche way too much slack in my opinion. His only post D1 was voting me for... rather shaky reasons which I already defended against, and then he never came back to respond to the defense. I would appreciate if he could at least explain his motivation for his vote, because his case honestly did not flow that well to me (though this might have just been because I was the target of it).
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this post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533496.html#msg533496)
Like I said earlier, my D1 play was weak and sucky, which I hope you excuse due to me being new. I was doing actions without thinking of the implications.
But now I have more faith in myself and my actions, so I'll be better from now on.
(also, I found the mafia wiki :V)
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Don't really know how to respond, but I'll be holding you to that.
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I don't think you get to write off an entire day's worth of posts like that but you're free to try whatever I guess
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Ok Hourai since you are still so adamant on tunneling in on me, let me say that you still haven't posted a valid reason for why you thing I'm scum. You've just want me to defend myself on stuff that already happened and what will get us nowhere, after jumping onto a bandwagon for no reason you decide that it will be good to just pursue me without even looking at how reVelske is acting really suspicious because he still hasn't contributed anything to this game. Then while you argued with Tewi you didn't give any convictions then , other than the weak one you're giving me right now. After that, Huh What called you out on this even further (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533496.html#msg533496) and you haven't even addressed it.
jeez cut by like 3 people
And at this point I can't really say anything about reVelske then what has already been said and it does look rather suspicious. However I still see Hourai as acting really odd and didn't give an answer to that question IMO.
##Vote: Hanged Hourai
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I'm suspicious that you are scum because you went for an easy jump on Bob, while parroting, and then you go and defend reV right after he admits to lurking and calling the discussion crud.
That's why I think you are scum.
And if you two are indeed in cahoots, then it would be beneficial to turn suspicion on someone who people are already wary of.
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As for what huh what said, I'm going to blame that one being a newb like I said before. But if it's absolutely necessary that I answer it, I will. Just give me a few minutes.
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While I did jump on Bob early, I later came back and gave legitimate for why I thought what I did, while here you are copying reasons people have already said again. Also when did I defend reVelske? For not hammering him here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533272.html#msg533272) while I thought Bob was acting scummier? You're still very suspicious to me and I'll leave my vote on you until you can come up with something better.
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Also, Hourai, I just want to point out that your wagon jump on Schezo is pretty much of the same ilk as Schezo's jump on Bob. Why should you be exempt from your own reasons to vote somebody, if you supposedly agree with Affinity so much?
Seeing as how using a derp is out of the question, I'll do my best for an answer.
Affinity had valid points, like Schezo's parrot + wagon in addition with his silence.
Schezo's only thing on Bob was that he wasn't going on a scum crusade. Which is probably a testament to Bob's own personality rather than his motives.
New reply yadda yadda
But you didn't even put any pressure on him to come up with a reply. You took the wait-and-see, which gives all the more power to scum. Had you put pressure on, then I might have a different opinion.
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While Rev's actions are suspicious, I don't think his scum because he says he was going to lurk and that is just stupid if he was scum as it's bringing undue attention onto him, like now. But then, what if that's what he wants people to think....@.@
Also, I'm convinced Hourai is town now for similar reasons as Rev.
As for who I think are scum, no one particular. Although I have my suspicion on Roukan, VGtame and Schezo but for no real reason except a feeling, so my view is not to be trusted.
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Doll, what have you done all game? Absolutely nothing! You've just thrown jokevotes over lurkers, trying to help everyone, and not helping town at all. Not to mention you have said you were going to be passive, AKA active lurking, like a few others that have taken dirt for doing. Why shouldn't you?
##Vote: Doll
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I said I was going to be passive? When?
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I have to apologize for my weak D1 play. This is the last time I?m going to do this, but I?m going to pull out my newb card.
This entire time, we?ve seen him defenseless. And you guys just write it off as him being a derp/confused. AND MAYBE THAT?S WHAT HE WANTS. He could be a scumbag hiding behind that as a shield, and you guys just fall straight for it. It?s been working perfectly so far.
His derpiness is the perfect natural defense.
there is some serious fuckin' disconnect in this post right here. Hourai your whole 'please ignore how bad I was on day 1' thing is kind of ridiculous and honestly the way you're going at it like you had some intense personal revelation N1 just makes me think you have some kinda outside influence that told you to shape up. An influence like the other members of the scum team am I right
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Saying that day 1 arguments are helpful and then saying that you're not going to participate in them does not make you look smart. It actually just makes you look extremely scummy.
It's a moral choice, as said before, I simply have no interest in throwing baseless accusations around, if you believe that to be scummy, so be it. Don't you think there would've been far better options to stay low profiled than to piss on everyone's battery? Hell, I could just repeat what everyone else said like Schezo to look pro-town, hell, I could just shut up and say nothing like Bardiche to fly under the radar, hell, I could act like I'm still a complete newbie and look completely uncertain about everything like DollS to be more or less ignored. The lack of logic behind believing someone to be scum when they openly wish not to participate in Day One crap is really mind boggling. I do agree that lurking is bad and I have always welcomed lurker-lynch for day one when there is no better option, but to continuously harp on how I've played and accuse me of doing squat is a little too much.
So you thought that the reasons everyone put forward weren't enough to justify a lynch of Bob or Schezo
Wrong, read what i said. I had my suspicions on Schezo, but it seem stupid to have a new player voted off on the first day when they've hardly get to enjoy the game. Besides, I consider it rather beneficial to the town to have one of them lynched when you have two huge wagons like those going regardless of their alignment, as I've stated before, the only BAD thing that could happen is if a PR gets lynch, nothing wrong with a vanilla town lynch.
well considering your track record this game I'd say you're bad lmfao peace
I say you still need your definition revised.
But yeah yeah, I'll get on with some scumhunt sooner or later, when I have both the patience and the time.
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VgameT, what makes you think Hourai is scum particularly? He could be a pro-townie role that discovered something about Schezo with his night power.
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It looks more like tunnel vision than a power role to me.
That said, I'm still leaning town on Hourai because of the whole wagon-tying issue. Honestly not seeing how his motivation is coming off more like he got a push from his scumbuddies than that he just felt like doing better rather than floundering around (because obviously as a townie he'd want to improve himself to better help his alignment too). Though it is irritating how he is trying to convince everyone to ignore his D1 completely.
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In all honesty though, I'm beginning to wonder if Schezo / Hourai may be a town vs town struggle, but ugh Schezo's hop on the Bob wagon doesn't settle well enough with me to completely convince myself. I would like the people who have been passing off Schezo as derptown so far to explain why they are doing so, so that I can at least understand both sides of the argument a little more. Nobody who has said "Schezo is obvderp" whatever has actually explained why, and that bugs me a little.
Speaking of which, has VgT said anything about Schezo so far this game? Because I don't think he has, which is a little bit odd since Schezo was the other big wagon D2. Unless I completely missed something.
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VgameT, what makes you think Hourai is scum particularly? He could be a pro-townie role that discovered something about Schezo with his night power.
uhhhhh I'm not sure what makes you think that about him in particular but given that he was all over Schezo D1 as well that seems kind of unlikely? I mean any living player with a vote out could be a power role who investigated the person they're voting for as scum. It would be weird to actually make that assumption about anyone though. Also,
While Rev's actions are suspicious, I don't think his scum because he says he was going to lurk and that is just stupid if he was scum as it's bringing undue attention onto him, like now
That argument assumes that scum never do anything suspicious or stupid, which isn't the case. This game would be pretty hard if the scum played perfectly. The idea that they make mistakes that allow us to find them is kind of an integral part of the game. If you write off every scummy thing someone does because it makes them look scummy, and scum wouldn't want to look scummy, you're left with nothing to work with. This might be why you only have gut feelings to work off of.
as for Hourai: His D1 play really is bad, especially on a reread. He goes for a lurker vote early on and immediately throws the new player card when called out on it. He blatantly bandwagon-votes Schezo, and when people call him out on it he just goes "oh no I made a noob mistake!!!" Pesco asks him why he thinks Schezo is scummy and he basically says "I don't know, but I want him dead." He follows up with "whoops I mean, there's no way to know he's town, someone has to get lynched, and I think he's scummy" which sidesteps that question entirely.
Multiple people call him out after that, both at the end of D1 and the beginning of D2, which he completely ignores in favor of saying "everything D1 doesn't count because I'm a new player." He then hammers Schezo for not having any defense. Soooo that's pretty ridiculous. I don't think his point about Schezo clearing reV is really valid, either. It's kind of a stretch to say "you gave reV a pass for his post" when Hourai said absolutely nothing about reV D1, instead focusing super hard on Neo for some reason. A lot of the reasons he has for voting Schezo can also apply to himself.
reV: I will probably keep saying you've done nothing until you've, like, done a thing. until then please feel free to keep badly defending yourself and then saying "I'll do a thing when I get around to it guys, really"
cut by jack noir:
I think I said something about him not making sense before, which is still kind of true. To me it seems like he's legitimately trying to bring up points for discussion and hunt scum, even if his actual logic is kind of wonky.
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Catching up on what's happened. Sorry for my absence thus far.
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##VOTE: reVelske
The asshole attitude doesn't do you favours, and although you complain I posted less than you did, I didn't choose to lurk and do nothing openly. If you think a leading train is bad, you should spend every effort to dissuade Town and go for the more likely one. If we all played by your book of Mafia, we would just sit back on D1 and wait for deadline to fall while doing nothing, and honestly, no. You said yourself that lynching lurkers on D1 is a perfectly valid strategy─I don't see why we should excuse your active lurking.
As for the rest.
I see a lot of derps have been passed around and a lot of huh what (d'oh hoh hoh) moments have come to pass. The newbie squad is falling over itself in the derpsicle that was D1, while someone like huh what is following a surprisingly derptastic line of reasoning and he is my second candidate for scum thusfar.
The thing that irks me about huh what is that he first calls attention to my public role and then he slams the guy who inquires about it. Bob was entirely correct in diagnosing that my role was a non-tell, and the rationale behind inquiring about my role is not as bad as Inaba and Huh What would like us to believe.
For one, there was specific attention called to it. Can you blame a man for inquiring about something that was called attention to? Huh What, who fished for information in a subtle manner, has done nothing but drive home the point that Bob must definitely be scum for blatantly rolefishing, and it is a point that is most egregiously short-sighted for someone who's played Mafia so often before. It honestly feels like a trap that's been sprung and hammered home to astounding effect.
Hourai, PX, and Doll honestly need to gather their opinions, analyse why they think someone's scum and come out with solid reasoning, because all this "I agree with person x" justifying a vote is incredibly likely to only cause problems later on.
Schezo's OMGUS isn't particularly impressive and I can definitely see why he should be lynched, but between reVelske's "You're all fucking morons and I don't want to participate in D1" and Huh What's bizarre pursuit of Bob, he only comes in at third rank for me. Also, newbie pass to some rather silly statements like "Bob seems the most scummy to me", without ever providing what exactly is so scummy.
His initial vote for Bob was blatant panic-wagoning with the "end of day is near" comment, and "liability to town" is never a good reason to vote. Calling reVelske "I have no reason to believe you're not scum" (what is up with that reasoning?) and yet keeping his vote on "liability to town" while also defending Bob sort of is just downright bizarre.
In summation:
reVelske, no, just "you are fucking morons" does not excuse letting a bad wagon go by uncontested while admitting you were there, you were active and you were reading along.
Huh What, your reasoning on Bob was bad and you should feel bad.
Schezo, why was Bob "the most scummy" and why do you excuse reVelske, given you were withholding a vote pending his opinion, and his opinion so far has been "you guys are fucking morons"?
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My reasoning for thinking that Rev and Hourai are town are that those "scummy" signs are too obvious and I like to think that people are smart, but then that's just me :P They're not even trying to hide it...
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"They are so scummy that it's impossible they're scum". Do you realise how flawed this reasoning is?
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reVelske, no, just "you are fucking morons" does not excuse letting a bad wagon go by uncontested while admitting you were there, you were active and you were reading along.
AGAIN, don't misinterpret my Day One stance, it's not that I think people are morons, it's just that I simply do not enjoy making something out of nothing and throwing accusations around for the minor things and blowing them out of proportion just to make things happen. And also, AS I'VE EXPLAINED, the double wagon situation is perfectly fine IMHO, and seeing how I did not have a strong case against anyone in particular nor do I have faith in persuading anyone to get off those wagons, it was better to leave the situation be.
People really seem to enjoy simplifying my stance as me calling everyone idiots then making it clear that I'm gonna lurk, that was far from the case, mind not oversimplifying and twisting what I said?
And what's so scummy about what I'm doing anyways? I have reasoned all my actions, if you see some flaw in my reasoning, say so, not simply brushing it all aside and scumpaint me .
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Like I said, I like to think people are smart *shrug*
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And what's so scummy about what I'm doing anyways?
I dunno, replying only to excuse your active lurking with nothing to show for it, and blatant disregard for town's effort to hunt scum while cheerleading bandwagons doesn't sound scummy to you?
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Like I said, I like to think people are smart *shrug*
So beside "these people are scum so much they must be town", do you maybe have any "these people are scum so much they must be scum" to share with us? :V
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Blatantly disregard for town's effort? No?
And it's finally lunch town, I'm busy going through shit, gimme a break, geez.
And as for the wagons, what, would you rather have the entire town agreeing on a single specific lynch at the end of the day? Or have the town scatters its votes everywhere?
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*Lunch TIME, fgsfds. wtf Lunch town.
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You seem like a smart fella, so why do you twist my words?
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I am? Well you seem to have some issue against me "cheerleading" the bandwagons, and I do not quite understand your "Blatantly disregard for town's effort" comment.
Just to double check, am I correct to assume that Hourai and Schezo are new to the game?
And just to continue defending myself on the matter of lurking, my supposedly "imma-gonna-lurk" post is done on my Saturday morning (which is after my evening of gaming and just before I sleep), nothing much took place up till that point aside from all the back and forth between Bob and Bob-haters, as much as I really should've commented on that, I was tired and not really bothered. Most of the activities (page 3 - 4) happened during my sleep, which I responded to after I got up in the morning and the day soon ended. Soo.... there wasn't actually all that much lurking TBH :V
Anyhow, still going through shit.
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Alright, let's see.
First of all, sure, I've been spending most of my posts defending myself rather than actually scum hunting, but what's so wrong about that? Would you rather that I give some half-ass defense and go straight onto some scum hunting mission? I'm certain it would've been more suspect if I only started scumhunting when pressured whilst giving very little defense. Besides, I have perfectly good reasons to have played the way I've played, no reason to keep myself silenced about it.
Now... not that it matters much, but Mod: there's an error on the final Day One vote count, Affinity moved his vote off Schezo so he is suppose to be L4 with Affinity name grayed out.
And Doll, anything to say about not participating in any voting action at the end of Day One?
I'm not a particular fan of huhwhat, Pesco and VgT's votes on Bob, all three were done very early in the game with pretty weak ass reasons and never received any follow-ups towards the end of the day, Pesco and huhwhat attacked Bob for his supposed "passiveness" by misinterpreting his "I'm not going to be aggressive" and his supposed rolefishing attempt (when all I can see is a show of curiosity, which huhwhat has done himself as others have pointed out), VgT initially defended Bob indirectly on that matter by pointing out how huhwhat may be trying a little too hard, but went on to vote for Bob a little while later for the supposed OMGUS and accusing the vote of having "absolutely no rationale or scumhunting attached", considering how weak pesco's reasoning was and how he did not retouch on the subject, I don't see how a counter-vote against Pesco would be any less rational and scumhunty than any other posts at the time. And this is straight after he slapped huhwhat on the wrist for his oversensitivity.
Rouk was the first on the wagon for weak reasoning as well, but unlike the others, he actually continued to bash Bob even towards the end of the day, now despite the fact that I found his end day Bob-bashing (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533523.html#msg533523) to consist mostly of random crappy word-twisting, at least he tried and made some valid points. (still mostly crap)
Now that's out of the way...
Speaking of which, has VgT said anything about Schezo so far this game? Because I don't think he has, which is a little bit odd since Schezo was the other big wagon D2. Unless I completely missed something.
Nothing aside from this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533468.html#msg533468).
Now from what reVelske said just now is curious because he decides to not do anything at all to aid the town in trying to get some actual discussion going that will prove useful later on. He calls our current discussions pointless crap yet does nothing to add to it and also admitted to active lurking, so whenever he does post his opinion, it better be insightful. I will have to wait for your commentary to convince me now that you aren't scum. However, bringing your opinion too late will probably sway a bandwagon into getting a random lynch and leaving us with less to work with on day 2.
Until then I'll keep my vote where it is for now.
I still don't like that and Schezo's general posting mannerism (tone, if you'd like to call it), the above post is the the first pro-active post made by him (which most members managed to do with a single sentence) with of an exaggerated paragraph of crap that looks nothing less than him trying too hard to sound pro-town whilst staying reasonably neutral. His posts lack the aggression and conviction to make them convincing, and most of them are simply weak prods and re-wording of what others have said.
You've just want me to defend myself on stuff that already happened and what will get us nowhere
And that's just plain BULLSHIT.
##vote: Schezo
Not only does he seem suspect, if he does flip scum, the double-wagon at the end of day one will potentially provide a lot more information than what it does now.
With that out of the way...
PX has been MIA for too long, he needs to post.
Hourai just seem like an over-aggressive newbie, I see very little merit in attacking him for it... yet.
Now I just wasted my 2 hours lunch break (which is really 1 hour, but I can sorta stretch it) for this, hope you bastards are at least happy.
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I'm also a little curious to Affinity's lack of reaction to my "lurking", he did made minor mentions about how he's not exactly happy about it, but they were very minor mentions whilst speaking of other subjects.
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@reVelske
Well, I played with you before, reV, so I was used to this attitude. It was not as if anything I would have said would change your conviction of 'being fine about the double wagon', and I can't say I don't understand that either. Your absence didn't affect D1, and so you would be around the same as Doll, effectively starting the game later on D2, which while not comforting, was fine.
One thing I'm curious about your opinion is how Schezo's lack of defense is 'bullshit'. What would you expect to see that matters other than a renewed case on someone else (he gave an original reason on Bob)? And yes, I would rather you not defend yourself and made the post you just made; I was almost going to say how the entire body of posts you made so far were fluff that did not matter.
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I honestly think most of the votes on reVelske were made due to bitter feelings over his posting style, so hopefully that will be over after the voting post he made. I'm interested as to why no one voting reV was voting Doll, since she had almost the same participation without the sincerity behind it.
Hourai, I'm quite alright with his code of conduct so far; going after Schezo solidly while giving a clear train of thought does speak for his towniness, especially the rather easy reV hate at the beginning of the day, even if I feel that his line of query is a little flawed (e.g he DID give an original reason for voting Bob, which I agreed with). He's also following up on D1 suspicions and introducing new points other than OMGUS! and bandwagon jump!, what with Schezo's lack of pressure on anyone, which is pretty much true.
Schezo, I was impressed with his observation that Bob voted for pesco before voting for him when he could have here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533398.html#msg533398), which was more original than most things raised yesterday. However, his sparse posting and rather intermittent pressure, as well as his rather weak OMGUS against Hourai, don't exactly speak well against him, especially when he seems to be playing defensively now without giving any clear views on anyone else. Combine this with the flip, and his bandwagon jump seems more prevalent now.
Schezo, what do you think of people like Doll and reVelske? Anyone else who is second on your scumhunting hierarchy?
However, while Schezo is currently second on my list, Roukanken is first. He has given absolutely no evaluation on Schezo other than the observation that 'he makes no sense' and that 'he's more derp than town'. Other than this he says nothing, and yet questions on why people are... voting him, without referencing anything like the OMGUS and the bandwagon jump. This is especially prevalent at the critical point here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533523.html#msg533523), where one would expect careful weighing of Schezo and Bob, but this was not expressed in the slightest. This singular pressing for Bob's lynch, coupled with the unreasonable, indirect defense of Schezo seems rather off. There is also absolutely nothing on anyone else on D2 other than a he may be he may not on Hourai, in comparison to everyone else. Will probably move to Schezo soon, but for now, I want to pressure Rou. His reasons for his Bob vote are rather... meta-ish as well without consideration for the situation on D1 (e.g newbie scum will aggressively rolefish but not passively apparently because all newbies are obviously the same! Rolefishing automatically clouds town's thought processes too but did that happen? It's more of we are clouding ourselves etc.).
##Vote: Roukanken
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One thing I'm curious about your opinion is how Schezo's lack of defense is 'bullshit'. What would you expect to see that matters other than a renewed case on someone else (he gave an original reason on Bob)? And yes, I would rather you not defend yourself and made the post you just made; I was almost going to say how the entire body of posts you made so far were fluff that did not matter.
I was referring specifically to "what will get us nowhere" part, which I've quoted in bold but that's not very visible. And what I meant was that analyzing posts and actions from the previous days is far from pointless.
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Right, some more reading. Let's see what's happened since my last post.
First, because Zak has been absent, a quick votecount:
reVelske (4): Rou, VgameT, huh what, Bardiche
Schezo(2): Hourai, reVelske
Hourai(1): Schezo
Doll(1): PX
Rou(1): Affinity
Not voting - Neo [;_;], Doll
Now, posts that come to mind:
134 - reV blatantly admits he doesn't give a shit about d1. What I like [read: can't stand] is that he spends so long defending himself and not doing any actual attacking.
138 - Doll stop reading into flavour and start posting some useful stuff kthx.
141 - Hourai is STILL tunneling on Schezo, and with horrible logic like 'maybe he's PRETENDING to be derp!'. If you put it that way, we have no reason to think PX isn't pretending to be derp, or YOU aren't pretending to be derp. Also, what are your opinions on players who are not Schezo?
142 - I like VgT, keeps his stuff short and sweet, and I agree with a lot of it. I like this guy.
143 - Besides the idea that Bob/Schezo is a Town/Town wagon? That is a pretty good reason for scum!Hourai to put his vote there.
As for my opinion on Schezo, in terms of content I decided it mostly on this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533052.html#msg533052). In general, I can't see scum [or indeed scumteam] letting a buddy get away with spouting this sort of nonsense. I'll agree that he needs to step up his game today, but generally I didn't think there was enough against him that seemed genuinely malicious.
More prominently, and as I said here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533523.html#msg533523), I was turned off by the impossible speed the Schezo wagon appeared in. Four Townies do not conveniently come to agreement on the same suspicion within such a short span of time.
144 - 'Sup guys, disregard all the scummy things I did D1 plz'. You can't just ask not to be accountable for your play, Hourai.
147 - I am...uncertain about how to feel about this post.
While pressing Schezo for defense on his earlier actions without any obvious questioning isn't really very Townie, Schezo isn't doing much hunting because of it. Schezo, same question I asked Hourai - opinions on some more players that aren't 'what other people have already said'?
153 - A word comes to mind when I read this. I'm not sure why. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WY_amJ0YZrM)
Seriously though pressing Doll for lurking when you have uh been lurking all game? I am disappoint.
156 - Pre-emptive 'oh boy, it's a reV post, this'll be fun'.
The more I read this the more I am reminded of Kefit and how he always got bandwagoned early on because he didn't give a damn about D1. The problem is that a) Kefit then usually went on to give USEFUL analysis and info in later days and b) Kefit was not such a massive jerk about it.
reV, seriously. People are not more likely to agree with you if you call them stupid every five freaking seconds.
162 - I like the point on HW, admittedly. I'd prefer Hourai, still, but given the way Hourai gets cleared as town because HW can't think of a reason for scum to close up a potential town/town wagon I'd not have trouble believing a HW/Hourai scumpair.
163 - I want to cry.
173 - First of all, sure, I've been spending most of my posts defending myself rather than actually scum hunting, but what's so wrong about that? Would you rather that I give some half-ass defense and go straight onto some scum hunting mission?
Um...Yes?
The saying goes that the best defense is a good offense. If you're under suspicion, rather than trying to convince people that the reasons they suspect you are wrong, go out and make a case against someone else that is better than theirs. Sitting around and arguing tiny points about why you are Town DOES NOT HELP TOWN.
OK, saying this one last time to see if it gets through. reV, ahead of being a lurker and all that, the reason everyone is so angry at you is that you are acting like an asshole. Seriously man, if you want anyone to take you seriously a) contribute and b) stop being such a jerk.
175 - Again, four votes in eleven posts, which were posted in the space of just over three (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533230.html#msg533230) hours (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533368.html#msg533368). That was enough to turn me off from the Schezo case, and in a generally meh D1 Bob was the best case I saw.
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tl;dr - I will admit from Affinity's point that my personal opinion of reV plays a lot into my vote on him, but I feel there's enough actual meat on the case for him to be worth looking into.
Hourai has only become worse. He reminds me of myself as scum in Patchcon with the overexaggerated opinions and insistence on clarifying my points every post rather than making new ones and never letting go of the case ever. I figure that if reV's on L-2 right now I can afford to put another of my suspects up there.
##Unvote
##Vote: Hanged Hourai
The other person who's flaring up my suspicions is PX. Practically invisible D1, contributed to the horrible horrible HORRIBLE Schezo bandwagon, then jumped on Doll today for a reason that is completely hypocritical.
Super tl;dr - REV STOP RAGING
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First Count of Day Two
ReVelske (L-4) Roukanken, Huh what, Bardiche
Schezo (L-4) Hanged Hourai, ReVelske
Hanged Hourai (L-4) Schezo, Roukanken
Robotic Doll.S (L-5) PhoeniX Wrong
Roukanken (L-5) Affinity
With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to Lynch
Boy, I'm glad I managed to get a votecount in before someone complained I was too slow.
Cut: :(
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134 - reV blatantly admits he doesn't give a shit about d1. What I like [read: can't stand] is that he spends so long defending himself and not doing any actual attacking.
For the last fucking time, no, that's NOT what I said, I do not ENJOY flinging shit around, but I still appreciate how such actions promote activities that can be used later during the game. I. JUST. DON'T. ENJOY. DOING. IT. MYSELF.
And it's easy to reason my choice of actions, I have time for that whilst I work (eg. now), but to go through the thread and actually scumhunt requires a lot more effort and time, that's why I left it for lunch time, in case it was not clear enough.
reV, seriously. People are not more likely to agree with you if you call them stupid every five freaking seconds.
Give some specific examples please, I'm a little oblivious with this supposed "me calling everyone stupid" accusations.
173 - Um...Yes?
The saying goes that the best defense is a good offense. If you're under suspicion, rather than trying to convince people that the reasons they suspect you are wrong, go out and make a case against someone else that is better than theirs. Sitting around and arguing tiny points about why you are Town DOES NOT HELP TOWN.
Oh you people say that now, but I frigging bet you it would've bit me in the ass later with some crap like "reV refused to post anything until he was pressured, clearly he had every intention to lurk the entire game, oh so scummy." I want to make it VERY clear EXACTLY why I played the way I played before I moved onto other things, but it seems like nobody is listening to my explanation anyways.
OK, saying this one last time to see if it gets through. reV, ahead of being a lurker and all that, the reason everyone is so angry at you is that you are acting like an asshole. Seriously man, if you want anyone to take you seriously a) contribute and b) stop being such a jerk.
Yeah no, I really need someone to explain this whole "omg you such a jerk" thing to me, I know my posts are rather arrogant, but to say I act like an asshole does not seem to make any sense to me. Or is calling things "crap" and referring to day one scumhunting "shit flinging" enough to make me an asshole? Sheesh, the bar for assholes is set rather low these days.
And I'm not raging. VgT's choice of words are somewhat upsetting but that's about it? I can tank this shit.
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I only voted Affinity as a joke, since I forgot about him when I joke voted you. Also, I was just commenting at the end that he was mafia last game, so my vote would most likely be wrong *shrug*
So this is serious votes now? ....Well I have no idea, I'll just keep the joke vote until I can vote someone with definite certainty.
I was just correcting Rou's wrong assumption, since he accused me of choosing Affinity's cause he was a good player.
As for keeping my vote on Affinity, well, I guess I can unvote...
##Unvote: Affinity
As to huhwhat, I'm passive because, well, I'm not really good at being aggressive. Sigh.
As for me, I have finals this week, I got kicked out of my room so relatives can sleep in there, my house is fricken cold as hell, and most of these posts come when I'm either sleeping or at school. Speaking of which, I got to go to school now, so I'll be back.
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In general, I can't see scum [or indeed scumteam] letting a buddy get away with spouting this sort of nonsense
Roukan, are you clearing Schezo based on WIFOM. Why are you doing this Roukan. Why are you attacking my bastion of sanity by going so derp. I mean, really, shit, Roukan, what?
For reVelske: the reason I think you're being a jerk about everything is because you come in going what basically amounts to "This current discussion is crap, and I am too good to participate in that". Presenting yourself as being better than others will always make you come off as a prick, no matter how well-intentioned you may be. Day1 bad reasons is part of the game, and saying, "I'm too good to participate in that part of the game" sours the mood towards you. Later saying you don't enjoy that part of the game explains it somewhat, but it doesn't excuse it. Does that sufficiently answer you?
Well you seem to have some issue against me "cheerleading" the bandwagons, and I do not quite understand your "Blatantly disregard for town's effort" comment.
Yes. On D1, you expressed agreement with the reasons for voting Schezo. You refused to vote him, based on giving him the newbie pass and, in your own words, refusal to lynch a newbie before he gets to enjoy the game... and egregiously, you've abandoned that sentiment since. What changed since D1 and right now that you suddenly want to "lynch the newbie"?
Less related to standing case:
"Blatant disregard for town effort" refers to calling our attempts to make something of D1 to be "shit flinging", which doesn't have any positive connotations and some of us want to play the game for fun, not for our efforts to be downgraded by some petty jerk who expresses himself as though he thinks he's better than the rest of us.
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Roukan, are you clearing Schezo based on WIFOM. Why are you doing this Roukan. Why are you attacking my bastion of sanity by going so derp. I mean, really, shit, Roukan, what?
I'm going to admit that reasoning isn't enough on its own especially given his lack of productivity elsewhere, but I can't get over the speed of that wagon. It's just plain unnatural, and I'm convinced there's at least one, maybe even two scum on that wagon. [My suspicions would be Hourai and PX, roughly in that order.]
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@Bard: Fair enough. As mentioned, it's a matter of moral, same with how I refuse to lie in a game of Mafia, but I doubt people here would believe me for that.
As for voting Schezo, did I not mention how the no-newbie-lynch policy only applies to day one? If not, well, that's the case, the most I'd be willing to do is pressure them with votes to hope for a scumslip/bad roleclaim, in the previous scenario, it would've been more decisive than "pressure", so I chose not to do it. And yes, killing a newbie off on Day One would probably kill all the fun for them, considering how the game only really start from Day Two IMHO, I'd imagine it'd be rather unpleasant for them to get lynched so early simply for being newbie.
And as for shit flinging, I'll reword it as "free-trade of insubstantial accusations" then? *shrugs* I simply cannot hide my dislike for it. But no, I don't look down upon anybody who participate them, as explained.
I'm going to admit that reasoning isn't enough on its own especially given his lack of productivity elsewhere, but I can't get over the speed of that wagon. It's just plain unnatural, and I'm convinced there's at least one, maybe even two scum on that wagon. [My suspicions would be Hourai and PX, roughly in that order.]
That seem like one hell of a far-fetched thing to be convinced of. Why would the speed of the wagon-building affect the possibly of scum-presence? Especially considering how each of the voter has reasoned their action and the suspicions concerning Schezo were lost to no-one at that stage of the game. If anything, I'd have said that at least one scum is on Bob's wagon, considering he appears to be far more experienced than Schezo with the game and could potentially be more of a threat to the scums later in the game, a newbie like Schezo should be of absolutely no threat to them aside from being an unpredictable wildcard.
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And why those two, out of all people? Out of all people you pick two of the newbies, Rou.
@reV: Raincheck on response, no time.
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reV: The "shit-flinging" during day 1 forms the basis of the entire game and your complete non-participation in it does not make you look good. Handwaving it away by saying "well I don't like doing it" does not make you look good either. You've said yourself that the discussion is important and that analyzing posts and ideas from day 1 is useful for the town. So basically, you don't like doing the thing that helps the town find scum. Awesome, thanks. To me your rationalization just sounds like "I'm afraid of putting myself into the game early on because I might make a mistake and get lynched." Hey, I wouldn't like getting lynched D1 as scum either.
I don't really know how to make my argument any clearer. Abstaining from doing things that benefit the town makes you look like scum. Spending all of D1 and half of D2 saying "I will not scumhunt now" makes you look like scum. Referring to everyone's arguments as "shit-flinging" makes you look like an asshole. I'd work on both of those things next time you play.
Oh you people say that now, but I frigging bet you it would've bit me in the ass later with some crap like "reV refused to post anything until he was pressured, clearly he had every intention to lurk the entire game, oh so scummy."
in case you haven't been paying attention that is exactly what is happening right now, sooooo
aw don't cut me bro
As for voting Schezo, did I not mention how the no-newbie-lynch policy only applies to day one? If not, well, that's the case, the most I'd be willing to do is pressure them with votes to hope for a scumslip/bad roleclaim, in the previous scenario, it would've been more decisive than "pressure", so I chose not to do it. And yes, killing a newbie off on Day One would probably kill all the fun for them, considering how the game only really start from Day Two IMHO, I'd imagine it'd be rather unpleasant for them to get lynched so early simply for being newbie.
Uh what
So basically you avoided voting for someone you claim to think is scum and instead let the town lynch someone you did not think was scum? Wow good job dude that doesn't make you look completely anti-town or anything
Like, what? "No guys I totally did a bunch of scumhunting but I kept it to myself because it would have been mean to say it!!!" that isn't how the game works, I don't even know what to say to that. Except the thing I already said (you're bad, get dead)
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And why those two, out of all people? Out of all people you pick two of the newbies, Rou.
Hourai's absolutely brutal tunnel vision in combination with absolutely no worthwhile logic. His thought process is honestly 'maybe Schezo's just pretending to be bad!'. Combine that with his 'hey disregard everything I said d1 okay' request and D1 attitude which pissed me off, and I am unimpressed.
PX has offered no discussion on the current affairs and has wasted all his time pressing at another newbie, offering nothing useful to the conversation, being blatantly hypocritical, and most interesting appears to have forgotten entirely about his opinion on Schezo today. He picked up the case yesterday to bring it to L-3 and then...sort of disappeared.
Affinity is the other big member of the rush mob, and there's nothing I can really find with him that's so clear-cut. If Schezo is Town and Scum!Aff was on Schezo to make it a two-Town-horse race, why the need to cement himself as the last vote on Bob (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533545.html#msg533545) and bring more potential suspicion? Besides that he's pressing people and asking questions, two things which those mentioned above aren't really doing at all.
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reV: The "shit-flinging" during day 1 forms the basis of the entire game and your complete non-participation in it does not make you look good. Handwaving it away by saying "well I don't like doing it" does not make you look good either. You've said yourself that the discussion is important and that analyzing posts and ideas from day 1 is useful for the town. So basically, you don't like doing the thing that helps the town find scum. Awesome, thanks. To me your rationalization just sounds like "I'm afraid of putting myself into the game early on because I might make a mistake and get lynched." Hey, I wouldn't like getting lynched D1 as scum either.
How I look based on my moral choice is irrelevant to me, this is who I am, this is how I play, I see myself more than capable of making up for it after Day One (again, perhaps not as easily in a new environment such as MOTK, but I'm working on it), if my action mistranslates to something completely erroneous and absolutely warrants a lynch (which it doesn't unless you really got nothing else to go on), then that's just too darn unfortunate.
Abstaining from doing things that benefit the town makes you look like scum. Spending all of D1 and half of D2 saying "I will not scumhunt now" makes you look like scum. Referring to everyone's arguments as "shit-flinging" makes you look like an asshole. I'd work on both of those things next time you play.
I'm afraid nothing will change, I play how I play, I have no need to put on a deceiving persona just to convince people that I am of a certain alignment when I have perfectly good reasons for doing what I do, even the supposed asshattery.
in case you haven't been paying attention that is exactly what is happening right now, sooooo
In reality, I went on the scumhunt at my own pace when the time allowed me to. Don't you think it would've been worse if I brushed aside all the questions and suspicions without much of an explanation and went on to attack others after a simple apology? Wouldn't it look more like I'm desperately trying to take the pressure off myself by redirecting attention to others?
So basically you avoided voting for someone you claim to think is scum and instead let the town lynch someone you did not think was scum? Wow good job dude that doesn't make you look completely anti-town or anything
Good job over-simplifying it. I don't judge people as "scum" and "not-scum" on Day One unless there are some convincing evidence. They are nothing but gut feelings on weak reasoning that I'd be perfectly willing to discard (not to mention how it was rather impossible to turn the situation around in the mentioned scenario, and things weren't set in stone by the time I went to bed and it was a little too late when i got up). And as stated, there is no bad lynch on Day One unless it's a PR, so even a vanilla death is tolerable, a town lynch will only help to fuel my suspicion on people who participated in the lynching, eg. you.
"No guys I totally did a bunch of scumhunting but I kept it to myself because it would have been mean to say it!!!"
Woo I like that example.
Except I really didn't do much on Day One, and it was a god damn weekend, assuming you have a job, you should know how much that meant! And no, sorry, not prioritizing Mafia game over chillaxing and housework, especially when it's just Day One and you smart individuals are surely more than capable of handling things on your own~
that isn't how the game works, I don't even know what to say to that. Except the thing I already said (you're bad, get dead)
Again, that isn't how the game works FOR YOU. I'm sure we all value ourselves and the game differently.
Oh and...
(http://i52.tinypic.com/4rdk5x.png)
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And in case it's not obvious, this reV-asshattery bashing isn't going to get us and the town anywhere, it sure feels like I'm busy writing an autobiography here. Rather look at the others perhaps? Or is this really the best "scumhunting" you can do on the second day?
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@ Bard: I'm pretty sure I already stated that I wasn't really intended to rolefish so much as just point out its existance (since somebody was going to do so eventually). That said, I don't agree with your implication that I spent the entirety of D1 hammering on Bob for rolefishing - sure, it was how the case got off the ground, but I did not actually spend the rest of the day assaulting Bob over rolefishing issues like you say. While I did find the rolefishing scummy, I mainly kept my vote on him because of how he followed it up with an OMGUS on Pesco and failed to explain it until prodded, which looked pretty argh to me. Most of the other times I brought up his rolefishing in the day were mainly responses to people questioning me about my actions during the original vote. That said, I don't really see how the case on Bob was any worse than the other options on that day. I did consider switching to Hourai since he was starting to look worse than Bob around the time of my #112, but I did not really feel comfortable doing so because it would tie the wagons and I was a bit wary of how awkwardly fast the Schezo wagon was springing up.
However, after a re-read, I do not like Rou for actually doing what Bard accused me of doing D1 as far as Bob rolefishing complaints go, especially considering he barely even gave any other of his D1 suspects more than a single sentence (which looks rather unconvincing) and just continuously went after Bob over the rolefishing issues. Even the post where he first properly jumps on Bob wagon isn't that good, he misreps Doll's jokevotes and parrots what has already been said about Bard's role being a nulltell before jumping on Bob without actually adding anything new to the case beyond some shakily-reasoned meta. His constant defense of Schezo does not look good either considering how poorly he explained it and how much the reasons border on WIFOM (Schezo wasn't actually -that- horrible D1, using the possibility of buddies to clear him as town is argh), and yet he continues to seem completely convinced Schezo is town to the extent that he is completely ignoring the wagon that flipped town in favor of a speed-wagon which never flipped. Sure, I'm not going to deny that the way the Schezo wagon grew looked rather shaky, but it seems a little bit off for Rou to suddenly be throwing around theories such as "two scum were probably on the Schezo wagon" when we don't even know Schezo's alignment yet. After all, it's not completely possible for a couple townies who thought alike to appear and post something around the same time, once you think about it.
...Actually, considering that I'm still not particularly fond of Schezo at this point either (though I guess a town/town struggle between him and Hourai still looks possible), I think Rou's awkward interactions with him and constant tunneling on the Bob case are enough to earn my vote over reVelske, since as horrible has reV was D1 been he is at least trying to produce now. So Rou, what do you think of the people on the flipped Bob wagon which you have been ignoring so much this day?
##Unvote
##Vote Roukanken
Speaking of reV, I'm feeling a little bit better about him now that he's producing (though his refusal to D1 vote Schezo is still a little off), but after his initial vote he reverted to defending himself. It feels like he's talking himself into his own grave, and I want to see him produce more than a constant defense again. He did it for one post, why can't he do it now? Though, he was actually wrong about Rou being the first on the Bob wagon (Rou only pops up first on the votecount because of a jokevote, he was actually the third on), and the passes he gives Rou while bashing me, Pesco and VgT seems kind of undeserved.
Also,
I refuse to lie in a game of Mafia
So reV, what's your alignment? :V
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Suddenly, fifty hours later:
143 - Besides the idea that Bob/Schezo is a Town/Town wagon? That is a pretty good reason for scum!Hourai to put his vote there.
oh hey i missed this
Yeah, I was being kind of dumb when I gave Hourai that pass now that I re-think it over. <_< I think I'll re-read him later today since I'm not really sure where I stand on him.
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And in case it's not obvious, this reV-asshattery bashing isn't going to get us and the town anywhere, it sure feels like I'm busy writing an autobiography here. Rather look at the others perhaps? Or is this really the best "scumhunting" you can do on the second day?
my brain hurts
OK look I'm not going to dig at you anymore, because I think your words and actions pretty much speak for themselves at this point. My vote's staying where it is because you're the scummiest person to me. Since you no longer have anything to respond to you're free to take the initiative and post about people other than yourself, so please do that. Thanks in advance!
Nnnot really following the discussion on the Schezo wagon. Rou's argument is that scum started a second wagon while Bob's was going on for some reason? Given that Bob flipped town, why would they want another wagon to start up?
First things first, despite the pressure I put on him yesterday, I'm beginning to think of Hourai as town, because I cannot possibly think of a reason scum would want to park their vote on Schezo at that point if they knew Bob would flip town.
What would you predict scum would have done, then? You're clearing all the weird stuff Hourai has done because if he did that thing as a scum player, it would be weird. I don't really follow. Relatedly:
Hourai: Remember that one time when people called you scummy and voted for you and then you haven't posted in the thread since? That sure was cool! Please come back!
Robotic Doll: You kind of haven't done anything this game, so that's weird. Mostly you've just been cheerleading and responding to Hourai and reV , who are my two top picks for scum, so that's kind of a Thing. You should probably, like, give some opinions on guys that are based on things that have been posted in the thread instead of wishy-washy gut feelings without a vote to back them up.
man shoot huh what don't cut me to realize the thing I was about to tell you before I told you it. come on man. come ON
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However, after a re-read, I do not like Rou for actually doing what Bard accused me of doing D1 as far as Bob rolefishing complaints go,
I...have no idea what you are accusing me of here. My response to Bard's publicity was
Bard's role being public knowledge is a nulltell. Bastard mod, doesn't specify whether he's town/scum, we're wasting time talking about it, blah blah blah.
Even then, given that by this point it was already a matter of discussion I felt the need to say something, even if that something was 'we shouldn't be wasting time on this'.
it seems a little bit off for Rou to suddenly be throwing around theories such as "two scum were probably on the Schezo wagon" when we don't even know Schezo's alignment yet. After all, it's not completely possible for a couple townies who thought alike to appear and post something around the same time, once you think about it.
I assume you mean 'not completely impossible' here, but besides that, the odds of four townies conveniently coming to the same conclusion and posting within three hours of each other are so low I'm not willing to believe there isn't at least one scum jumping on for good measure, especially since PX and Hourai did so in sentence-long posts basically saying 'yeah, what Affinity said'.
And again, 'one, maybe even two' means more likely one.
So Rou, what do you think of the people on the flipped Bob wagon which you have been ignoring so much this day?
Alright then.
HW - Besides the point Bard raised about 'HW brought up the Bard PR before Bob did and then called out Bob for bringing up the Bard PR', I am honestly not seeing much wrong with huh what. I admit there's a slight shiftiness but it's entirely gut reads and unless something more solid comes up I'm not going to chase him.
VgT - Honestly? I like VgT. He's consise, and I agree with just about everything he says.
Schezo - Is admittedly beginning to look worse and worse as D2 goes on. I am still adamant that scum would not press that hard and fast if Schezo was among them, and I find it difficult to believe all four of the members of the quick wagon are Town.
Affinity - Again, my idea with Affinity is that if he was scum he'd know Bob was Town, and therefore he'd have no reason to draw attention to himself by switching over to him at the last moment. This argument doesn't hold if Schezo is scum, but I've already said why I don't think that's happening about a dozen times.
Rou's argument is that scum started a second wagon while Bob's was going on for some reason? Given that Bob flipped town, why would they want another wagon to start up?
Reduce discussion to a two-horse race, turn it into a dichotomy of 'Vote This Townie Or Vote This Other Townie'. One wagon on its own leads to too much risk of someone who disagrees putting a vote on scum, so pressing town/town is practically a distraction.
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I...have no idea what you are accusing me of here. My response to Bard's publicity was
quote
Even then, given that by this point it was already a matter of discussion I felt the need to say something, even if that something was 'we shouldn't be wasting time on this'.
Basically, from what I understood of Bardiche's post, his case on me is "huh what rolefished, then constantly slammed Bob for the rest of the day with a poor case revolving entirely around his rolefishing" (which I don't think is true as I already explained when responding to Bard, but nevermind that). You did the latter half of that, though I suppose it's my fault for not specifying the hypocrisy part didn't apply here.
Will respond to the other stuff and do my Hourai re-read eventually, there are other things I should be doing at the moment but I wanted to at least get this out to avoid confusion regarding my current vote.
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honestly the way you're going at it like you had some intense personal revelation N1 just makes me think you have some kinda outside influence that told you to shape up. An influence like the other members of the scum team am I right
Yeah. You got me. Well played. I admit it. I admit it everyone.
I found the wiki.
Hourai, PX, and Doll honestly need to gather their opinions, analyse why they think someone's scum and come out with solid reasoning
If my opinion wasn't clear before, let me say it now.
I am definitely suspicious about reV and Schezo being scum buddies.
D1, we see reV admit to his lurking, and Schezo says that he'll look for his reply later.
Wait-and-see, as said before, lets scum lead the game, which would be exactly what he wants.
And for my opinions on other players:
I am suspicious of reV definitely. Here's how the scenario works out in my head
D1, we see reV admit to lurking and then Schezo defends him.
A lot of people get really suspicious and start to voice their opinions on him being scum.
Then at the end of D1, we see Pesco get suspicious and voice his dislike for him.
And Pesco is a strong player. It would be dumb to nightkill a good player who clearly voiced his opinions about reV being scum, so he went and killed the player who was suspicious, yet strong. A preemptive strike.
As for other players, Doll and PX really haven't contributed anything to the game. So I have my eye there.
Huh what and VgT have been very pro-town this game, calling out people and going hunting. So I have some faith in them.
Also, we shan't forget about Neo's empty roll, which could be decreasing our odds of catching a scum.
Remember that one time when people called you scummy and voted for you and then you haven't posted in the thread since? That sure was cool! Please come back!
T_T I go to bed at nine, and I wake up at 5:30, then I go to school until 3. Please don't bash my schedule.
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Well, it seems I can't think straight today. I really can't find anything that isn't already said and I need to prepare for a test today.
So here's a summary of what I think:
I agree with what Rev said about not accusing senselessly but yeah, he really shouldn't be a jerk on it, it just rubs people the wrong way. To those wondering why I think Hourai's town, It's his first post in D2 that really convinced me but I got to admit that him playing the newbie card didn't really help, also Schezo is just a bit suspicious to me with what I think is a panicky defense. Roukan reason against Hourai is somewhat meh with his 'I acted like this when I was scum, so he must be scum' mentality.
Also, to those that will be asking why I didn't vote for Schezo in near the end of D1 if I thought his defense was suspicious, it's because my reasoning is wonky and like I said, I agree with Rev in that I don't want to throw votes senselessly. (Unless it's a jokevote :P)
Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Sigh, this is why I hate posting something long.
Will get back to you guys sometime tonight, maybe.
Warning - while you were typing a new reply has been posted. You may wish to review your post.
ARRRGGG!!!
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reVelske your actions have drawn more attention to yourself just because of your behavior and attitude from day one then say Doll and PX and that seems to be why people started off on you so bad at the beginning of day 2. Of course you haven't helped your case much but you are at least being proactive now and that's probably why we let PX go by without question, who just randomly appears and throws a vote on Doll for the exact same thing he's been doing. I find both of them acting rather odd because Doll does nothing to help out with what's already out there.
PX just keeps rubbing me the wrong way and how he still hasn't contributed anything to this game other than bandwagoning and pressing Doll with little conviction. Yet he seems to constantly slip right under everyone's suspicions because others have been more outspoken and have drawn attention to themselves. I also don't know what post 180 was since he just quoted Doll and didn't say anything about it.
Cut by 3 people: Hourai, we already said that it will just lead us in circles to try and figure out the nightkill because it could have happened for any number of different reasons. I also decided that you seemed scummier than reV just because people liked to jump on him for attitude and how he decided to play the game, whereas you are just acting suspicious.
Doll you haven't even put a vote to your words so you aren't all that convincing.
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Though, he was actually wrong about Rou being the first on the Bob wagon (Rou only pops up first on the votecount because of a jokevote, he was actually the third on), and the passes he gives Rou while bashing me, Pesco and VgT seems kind of undeserved.
I stand corrected, dunno why I mistook Rouk to have been in the initial offense against Bob, in that case it does look rather suspect how Rou, having sat on his RvS vote all Day, decided to show up at the end of the day to bash Bob the way he has.
So reV, what's your alignment? :V
Obviously I will never answer that question or anything that may hint at my alignment in any Mafia game I play.
I agree with Rev in that I don't want to throw votes senselessly. (Unless it's a jokevote :P)
As much as I do not like the fact that you are spending most of your time looking uncertain about everything as always, I do appreciate the fact that someone actually see where I am coming from. Regardless, you have been making effort to put your foot down on matters as of late from what i can see, which is cool I suppose, but you still need a bit more aggression IMHO, and not having placed any vote at the end of Day One does not help your case at all.
@ HH: Cool story bro.
Now, tell me, do you not see any other possible scenarios out there? Take a moment and try come up with something else using other players as well. Is there anything about the scenario you've just described that's any more likely, than say, anything else you could possibly come up with?
lets scum lead the game, which would be exactly what he wants.
That's leading the game? Define lead for me please.
we see Pesco get suspicious and voice his dislike for him.
When?
Now say if you are right, tell me, what possible reason do I have to target Schezo right now when he's still in a relatively comfortable spot? Why don't I attack, say, huhwhat for the whole Bob-bashing, or PX or not being around?
And again, just to bring up the minor question I imposed in one of my earlier posts, Hourai, this is your first Mafia game, correct? I'm merely curious.
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That's leading the game? Define lead for me please.
Wait-and-see lets others lead the game, so as scum, they wouldn't have to be responsible for any "bad" turnouts that would occur.
Now, tell me, do you not see any other possible scenarios out there? Take a moment and try come up with something else using other players as well. Is there anything about the scenario you've just described that's any more likely, than say, anything else you could possibly come up with?
Yes, there could be other stories, but that is how I choose to think of those events.
When?
#126, he voices his distaste for you, which can be very easily translated into suspicion.
Now say if you are right, tell me, what possible reason do I have to target Schezo right now when he's still in a relatively comfortable spot? Why don't I attack, say, huhwhat for the whole Bob-bashing, or PX or not being around?
If you are scum, then it would be too easy to deflect onto one of your previous aggressors or take the easy route and go for someone who others think is suspicious. People would call you out on that.
Targeting Schezo makes it so that you look somewhat normal, he has some suspicion, but not enough to make it a bandwagon.
Also, it makes myself look bad since I'm voting for him too.
And again, just to bring up the minor question I imposed in one of my earlier posts, Hourai, this is your first Mafia game, correct? I'm merely curious.
Yes. But I do not want to employ the newbie excuse anymore.
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D1, we see reV admit to lurking and then Schezo defends him.
A lot of people get really suspicious and start to voice their opinions on him being scum.
Then at the end of D1, we see Pesco get suspicious and voice his dislike for him.
And Pesco is a strong player. It would be dumb to nightkill a good player who clearly voiced his opinions about reV being scum, so he went and killed the player who was suspicious, yet strong. A preemptive strike.
Right, except:
a) I'm not seeing any sort of defense in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533272.html#msg533272). Saying "your next post will have to convince me that you're not scum" isn't exactly a defense.
b) Pesco also voices his dislike for you at the end of D1.
Also, seriously, I'd like to know: Your case on Schezo was that he had no defense and that he could be hiding behind a guise of stupidity. In the same post you ask everyone to forget about your actions on D1 because you're a new player. How do you expect anyone to reconcile those two statements? As far as I can tell, by your own logic, you're a pretty good scum candidate.
To those wondering why I think Hourai's town, It's his first post in D2 that really convinced me but I got to admit that him playing the newbie card didn't really help
His first post is the one that had him declare the newbie card, though? So that post was enough to convince you that he was town despite your misgivings about that? Why?
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And back, time to read everything and reread it again.
Schez: That post was responding to Doll's 154
Reading through, this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533398.html#msg533398) and this follow up (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533403.html#msg533403) change my opinions a bit. Hourai chasing down a tunnel after a train with Schezo on it with his explanations definitely make me want to vote for him like huh what said.
Cut to 113 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533484.html#msg533484). What? huh what brings up a good point and you just fling shit back at him? At least huh what explained his post, so how about you respond to him? Oh wait, you said to excuse your derpy D1 play. My response.
NO
Schezo 147 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg534866.html#msg534866) made me feel indecisive. He brings up a good point or two against Hourai, but reV's offense with this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535160.html#msg535160) is entirely true.
New posts! Oh Hourai, what the hell. Not once this entire game have you mentioned reV AT ALL. And now you're saying he's suspicious? Jumping wagons, are you now? And you're still not providing reasons. Schezo is going down the scum meter because he's starting to do good posts though.
On to other people.
reV, I've played with before, and I hate his attitude, so I'm used to it. Not to mention he's providing legitimate, although controversial, reasons for his actions. His 165]http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535123.html#msg535123]165 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535123.html#msg535123) answers everyone's questions, and I don't see a problem with it. Then he goes on the offense.
Reading on, all the problems on reV are on his different playstyle and his attitude. And I don't have a problem with either.
Doll: You still haven't looked better to me. You're not helping any cases, and it seems to me that you're trying to defend everyone. That is not pro-town at all. You're leading yourself and everyone else nowhere.
Meanwhile, cutting this post short so I don't get cut by more people, and I'll post a follow up within... 6 hours.
Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
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New posts! Oh Hourai, what the hell. Not once this entire game have you mentioned reV AT ALL. And now you're saying he's suspicious? Jumping wagons, are you now?
If you didn't notice, there were like 3 people who were asking my opinion on a person other than Schezo, so yeah. Not to mention I still have my vote on Schezo, so don't accuse me of jumping wagons.
Right, except:
a) I'm not seeing any sort of defense in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533272.html#msg533272). Saying "your next post will have to convince me that you're not scum" isn't exactly a defense.
b) Pesco also voices his dislike for you at the end of D1.
a) Waiting is about as close to defending as a person can get without saying, "That's ok, nothing wrong with that."
b) Pesco's suspicion was based off me following up Bob on his vote. And as we all know, they were both town.
Also, seriously, I'd like to know: Your case on Schezo was that he had no defense and that he could be hiding behind a guise of stupidity. In the same post you ask everyone to forget about your actions on D1 because you're a new player. How do you expect anyone to reconcile those two statements? As far as I can tell, by your own logic, you're a pretty good scum candidate.
Schezo has had experience playing mafia, and therefore, should have known to throw up a defense. I was asking for leniency, but if you don't want to give it, then that's fine. If you want to grill me for asking help on a game new to me, then fine.
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#126, he voices his distaste for you, which can be very easily translated into suspicion.
Oh that was no distaste, that was totally his way of expressing his love for me TBH, I was dubbed pescofriend when I joined and made my first post for a good reason! (Right? Right.)
If you are scum, then it would be too easy to deflect onto one of your previous aggressors or take the easy route and go for someone who others think is suspicious. People would call you out on that.
And if YOU are scum, you erratic choice of actions will make perfectly good sense! You MUST be scum then, right? Right. Pls vote yourself Hourai kthnx.
Targeting Schezo makes it so that you look somewhat normal, he has some suspicion, but not enough to make it a bandwagon.
Considering how most people have displayed suspicions over Schezo, I'd say there is a pretty good chance for his wagon to be built up, or rather, it hardly worth the risk of busing a scum teamie.
And wait, hold on a sec, Schezo ISN'T new?
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Wasn't he in the last game?
*checks*
Guess not. Thought he was.
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Hi, this is my first ever game of Mafia and what's this?
I don't have time right now to make another post so, I'll be back later.
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a) Waiting is about as close to defending as a person can get without saying, "That's ok, nothing wrong with that."
b) Pesco's suspicion was based off me following up Bob on his vote. And as we all know, they were both town.
a) Uhhhhh, I disagree, but OK you're free to define terms however you like.
b) That's not true at all. In this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533456.html#msg533456) and this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533472.html#msg533472) he questions you about your vote on Schezo, and in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533479.html#msg533479) he seems to be expressing displeasure at your response.
PX also makes a pretty vaild point. You didn't have anything to say about reV's actions during D1, and during D2 your case on Schezo was just that he had no defense and could be hiding behind a 'derpshield.' You don't mention anything about reV until this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg534879.html#msg534879), which is right after huh what and I have voted him. Like, reV does not even exist to you until that post in D2, where you seem to just assume he's scum? You call out Schezo for 'defending' reV but you don't actually say that you find reV or reV's actions scummy. What the hell?
Schezo has had experience playing mafia, and therefore, should have known to throw up a defense. I was asking for leniency, but if you don't want to give it, then that's fine. If you want to grill me for asking help on a game new to me, then fine.
I'm not going to be 'lenient', because you can be a new player and still be scum. In fact, I would argue that new scum is more likely to make stupid mistakes than new town, because the new scum is very worried about getting lynched. Also, there's a difference between asking for help in a new game and asking for what amounts to a 'do-over'. It's one thing to ask stuff like "I don't understand what those terms mean" or "how does not posting at all during day 1 make you anti-town?" and another to say "I have consulted a wiki and somehow determined that my day 1 play was not good, so please ignore all of it."
cut: girls, girls, don't fight. you're both pretty.
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Second Count of Day Two
ReVelske (L-5) Roukanken, Huh what, Bardiche
Schezo (L-4) Hanged Hourai, ReVelske
Hanged Hourai (L-4) Schezo, Roukanken
Robotic Doll.S (L-5) PhoeniX Wrong
Roukanken (L-4) Affinity, Huh what
With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to Lynch
Still more than two days left.
Also, if you're following along and think "Wouldn't it be cool to join in on this bloodsport" There's still one role waiting for a replacement.
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oh haha I forgot to put pound signs before my vote here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg534788.html#msg534788) so I guess it didn't count or something? Whoops. ##vote: reVelske Also, how much time is left in the day?
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Meanwhile, cutting this post short so I don't get cut by more people, and I'll post a follow up within... 6 hours.
Did I say six hours? I'll push that back to tomorrow. Anyways, Doll looks more like a lost cat confusing itself and everything around it. Not really scummy, but not pro-town. Hourai gets my vote.
##Unvote
##Vote: Hourai
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Roukan reason against Hourai is somewhat meh with his 'I acted like this when I was scum, so he must be scum' mentality.
I had specified already that he was TUNNELING INSANELY HARD on Schezo, jumped onto the bandwagon without much comment, and has been spouting some godawful logic since then.
PX has...stepped up his game considerably in 200 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535682.html#msg535682). It irks me slightly about his sudden burst of literacy, but the point he makes about Hourai conveniently not talking about reV and suddenly having suspicions on him seems pretty justified. Strengthened by the fact that despite all these words Hourai still hasn't moved his vote from Schezo.
I probably like Schezo 196 more than I should. It just has a feel of genuine effort to me.
Keeping my vote as is. Will support a reV lynch, but not a Schezo, and obviously I think Rou is a pretty cool guy.
cut: girls, girls, don't fight. you're both pretty.
am i pretty too ;_;
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The reVelske vs. VgameT thing seems regurgitated to the point of redundancy; I will suppose that reV voted Schezo and that people don't like reV for not participating in D1 and the Schezo vote on D2 (and not on D1) and such are the main points here, so...
Since Roukanken seems to have shifted a vote to Hanged Hourai which I can certainly understand (but not agree with; his reasons such as badlogic and bandwagon jumping don't address Hourai's finer points.), and that much of his alignment is dependent on his Schezo flip, I suppose I will pursue him at a later date (there's nothing more for him to defend against anyways that's not related to Schezo). There is some evidence of further wavering on Schezo (e.g saying he 'looks worse as D2 goes on' and then 'he seems to be putting in effort later'), but meh. Again, I still do not believe that the speed of the Schezo wagon is any reason to disregard him entirely on basis of WIFOM, but that will be left to the flips.
Doll seems to be telling us who he thinks is town, but not so much about who is scum, which is worrying. She needs to vote fast; else she seems worth pursuing on D3.
Surprisingly, I find that I agree with Hourai more than most people seem to. In any case, I do agree with his observation that Schezo is primarily playing a wait-and-see game with minimal pressure and maximum active lurking (IIoA), a scum winning strategy, which seems like a sharp and original observation that scum need not make. His contradictions and other diversions are... regrettable, but I still see much active conviction in his Schezo vote, especially when Schezo seems to be playing with the flow without answering his accusations. There's also much consistency between D1 and D2, so much so that I think he seems the most credible of the wagon jumpers at this moment. I'm pretty much not willing to join the Hourai wagon given his active scumhunting, despite the tunneling which I can vaguely see as scummy to some.
PX's point on him tunnel-visioning is debatable, but the fact remains that PX has not himself talked about reV once at all, which feels kinda weird, but yeah. Having a solid, original opinion on Hourai is certainly welcome, but what happened to your Schezo vote from a day ago? Where did all that suspicion go?
Schezo, I feel as if I'm willing to switch to right now. Despite the original Bob thing he pointed out yesterday, his play today seems to be lackluster; he does not answer much to Hourai's posts and relies on blanket items like 'he's tunneling on me without much original reason' (but he has, you are certainly not being very active in your case against Hourai, which you should address a little) Much of the flak Hourai seems to be getting is from other people, even, which feels odd. Also, there's no connection between posts 196 and 150, which worries me and feels like passive vote-resting. He does provide a few quips on PX and Doll, but nothing concrete (feels like information instead of analysis), but that's it... Since he's pretty connected to so many people (most of all Rou, to some extent PX), I feel that he's in the end the best lynch today.
##Unvote
##Vote: Schezo
Schezo, I would like a rehash of your case against Hourai, subtracting the fact that he's going after you and that he doesn't seem to be going for anyone else (but he's been saying things about other players, almost as much as you have). Your opinion on him certainly needs to be updated.
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Third Count of Day Two
ReVelske (L-4) Roukanken, Huh what, Bardiche, VgameT
Schezo (L-3) Hanged Hourai, ReVelske, Affinity
Hanged Hourai (L-3) Schezo, Roukanken, PhoeniX Wrong
Robotic Doll.S (L-6) PhoeniX Wrong
Roukanken (L-5) Affinity, Huh what
With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to Lynch
18.5 Hours left in the day.
It snuck up on us huh? I'd apologize for not updating earlier in the day, but apparently few others have.
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Let's see, Hourai: I now have seen another qualm about Hourai that I didn't mention earlier. He tried to an extent to push Pesco's questioning of him off onto reVelke earlier when all that Pesco said to reV was vote. However Pesco had been planning on going after Hourai the next day, implied by this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533479.html#msg533479), so Hourai thinks he's slick for playing it off as reV who was going to receive it from Pesco when he danced around his questions from here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533456.html#msg533456) and here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533472.html#msg533472)
b) Pesco's suspicion was based off me following up Bob on his vote. And as we all know, they were both town.
So when he later addresses it, he only does so halfway, conveniently leaving out the major part Pesco was getting onto him for, dancing around questions/ not giving valid reasons.
I don't like it, and how his own logic of catching scum can apply to him. He also refuses to point out anything in 198 that may apply to any other person besides me and that randomness he just threw at reV.
Doll, you still haven't come up with a response and you're the next on who I'll go after, after Hourai.
Affinity: I don't see any other players he's been saying anything about, besides reV, barely, so would you mind posting an example of this?
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*Gets some chili and cornbread. Watches a few Bad Apple!! videos. Finally gets around to reading mafia.*
Yikes.
Let's see, Hourai: I now have seen another qualm about Hourai that I didn't mention earlier. He tried to an extent to push Pesco's questioning of him off onto reVelke earlier when all that Pesco said to reV was vote. However Pesco had been planning on going after Hourai the next day, implied by this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533479.html#msg533479), so Hourai thinks he's slick for playing it off as reV who was going to receive it from Pesco when he danced around his questions from here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533456.html#msg533456) and here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533472.html#msg533472)
Ok, after a lot of thinking. I have this to say:
I have no defense for that argument in particular. I said before that if you want to grill me for it, then go ahead. But, it is a logical fallacy to assume since I had one bad defense in the past, then all my arguments about you now are worthless.
And also, what is your opinion on reV? All you've said about him was basically one post, #196, which summed up says, "you've drawn attention to yourself."
Again, no pressure on him at all. Why do you let him off the hook so easily? Do you think he is at least suspicious?
It's this sort of stuff that you repeatedly do that makes me think you are scum.
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I didn't necessarily let reV off the hook so easily, but since he now has been making some legitimate comments, and some insightful ones at that, he doesn't seem as much worth pursuing as you and Doll.
As for the logical assumption that it's a fallacy to assume your bad defense in the past proves your points invalid, this also could be a scum mistake that you made and got called out on. Did you consider that? Adding the fact that I didn't even mention that all your points were invalid makes you seem even more suspicious because I was just pointing out something odd you did, and you were quick to the defense.
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I didn't necessarily let reV off the hook so easily, but since he now has been making some legitimate comments, and some insightful ones at that, he doesn't seem as much worth pursuing as you and Doll.
But do you think he is worth pursuing? Are you suspicious of him?
As for the logical assumption that it's a fallacy to assume your bad defense in the past proves your points invalid, this also could be a scum mistake that you made and got called out on. Did you consider that? Adding the fact that I didn't even mention that all your points were invalid makes you seem even more suspicious because I was just pointing out something odd you did, and you were quick to the defense.
Not really, since I'm not scum.
I'm quick to defend because if you didn't notice, I have 3 votes. So yes, I was doing a preemptive move because in all likelihood, someone would come along and try and poke holes in them.
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I have no defense for that argument in particular. I said before that if you want to grill me for it, then go ahead. But, it is a logical fallacy to assume since I had one bad defense in the past, then all my arguments about you now are worthless.
one of your arguments (in fact, the argument that you've pressed the most) is that he had no defense. I guess that doesn't make your argument invalid but it does make you look like a complete hypocrite yet again.
I'm very willing to switch my vote over to Hourai. I gotta get back to work but when I get home I'll reread the thread and try to say some stuff about some of the more 'lurky' members in this game as well.
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Schezo has gone down the scum meter somewhat since he's starting to post legitimate posts. However, I'd like him and Hourai both to take less about each other and more about others.
As for reV, he's posting less defense and more scum hunting. I'd like to see his opinions on Schezo now though. Also, a reason why I'm letting his D1 "activity" go is because I'm guilty of the same thing. Go lynch me :V
*New post*
Why do you think reV and Schezo are the scumteam, Hourai? All I see you've done to justify that is a flimsy night kill analysis, and that gets nobody anywhere.
VgT: Good thing the VgT/reV crap stopped. Otherwise, he's making concise points, and pursuing them. Looks good in my books.
*Rereads Day 1*
Wow, Day 1 can almost be partly summarized as a big derpfest.
Okay, looking through D1 again, Hourai went Doll, then tunneled Schezo. Not really looking better, considering he's telling us to ignore all that.
HW makes a good point slamming Rou (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535411.html#msg535411) and otherwise has been pretty good.
Rou is defending his actions on Schezo based off meta, so there's no point in pushing now. Only some more flips can tell how sound his words are. However, you are guilty of slamming Bob over rolefishing.
Bard looks as good as HW and VgT
Also, I see HW's green light is on, so I'll wait for his post before I say more
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So, do you guys want me to follow my suspicion and vote someone no matter if the reason for the suspicion is shaky at best?
Sigh, I just don't want to make a mistake.
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You're not going to find a rock solid, "Oh! This person is obviously scum so now I vote them!" case at any time in mafia so you just start interpreting the facts that are laid out on the table and find what fits together in your head. You also use your vote to help figure stuff out, like when people are put under pressure and what they may or may not be hiding. There's enough happening in this game that you can get an opinion formed by yourself on people, so just do that.
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If you're unsure, make yourself sure. Try sounding confident, and get others on your side. If you're unsure of yourself, nobody is going to listen to you, and you're basically a filler.
-
Something!
VgT - Honestly? I like VgT. He's consise, and I agree with just about everything he says.
Might be needless nitpicking since it happened during ED1, but whatever happened to your slight suspicion of him from earlygame? Was it just because he seemed to drop the pressure on me that you claimed to dislike? You didn't actually say anything positive about him on D1, so this opinion feels like a complete 180 to me.
Affinity - Again, my idea with Affinity is that if he was scum he'd know Bob was Town, and therefore he'd have no reason to draw attention to himself by switching over to him at the last moment. This argument doesn't hold if Schezo is scum, but I've already said why I don't think that's happening about a dozen times.
This... honestly seems like you're clearing him over WIFOM. What is it about Affinity's action that makes it look townie-ish rather than a null tell, provided that Schezo is town like he is in your hypothetical scenario? Sure, the voteswitch might draw slight attention on principle, but it is not nearly enough to support an entire case on Affinity, and if both wagons are townie, then it's not going to cast him in a particularly good or bad light after Schezo's flip since it provides no tactical advantage to scum yet could be an attempt to come across as having more believably existant opinions. So how does this boil down to more than a WIFOM-y null tell as is, especially in your hypothetical scenario that Schezo will flip town? The only way I can see it possibly giving us information on Affinity's alignment is if Schezo flips scum, but you still seem to be clearing him over the fast wagon that never flipped, sooo.
Now that I have that out of the way,
--- Results of Hourai re-read:
* Personally feeling that Hourai's questioning #71 had townie intent, although he came off incredibly misguided. It does, however, seem odd that he never chose to follow up on them, and how he never elaborated on why he thought VgT was active lurking when I said I disagreed. It seems somewhat like there's a huge gap between his #71 and his #87 where he votes Schezo that he never filled, and comes off as if he is ditching his past opinions to jump on Schezo's wagon. Not too fond of this, although I would rather wait for a Schezo flip before actually declaring it scummy.
* His flipflop from "I want Schezo dead regardless of alignment" to "I guess Schezo is kind of scummy" to "I think Schezo is scum" over the span of three of his own posts still bugs me, and it does not help that he never responded to me when I pressed him on it. What was up with that, Hourai?
* Tunneling on Schezo with double standards is pretty ehhh, but doesn't seem too uncharacteristic for a newbie (I seem to recall going after my d1 target throughout the entirety of d2 for the exact same reasons myself, but whatever), and at least comes off as believable since his case on Schezo isn't really that poor. It is irritating that he never addressed why he was letting himself off on a double standard while pressuring Schezo over jumping on a wagon while adding nothing, though.
* Not an issue with Hourai himself, but:
In any case, I do agree with his observation that Schezo is primarily playing a wait-and-see game with minimal pressure and maximum active lurking (IIoA), a scum winning strategy, which seems like a sharp and original observation that scum need not make.
Okay, I don't know if I was just not very thorough at all when re-reading, but I never actually saw Hourai make this observation. Sure, Hourai said that Schezo is scummy for failing to put proper pressure on reVelske, but I cannot seem to find a post where he goes that in-depth or even brings active lurking / IIoA into the matter. Could you link me to what you are talking about? (Or maybe you just interpreted his posts in a different manner, I don't know.)
--- Results of Schezo re-read:
* Probably been said a million times by now, but man his post #58 looks really bad in light of Bob's flip. He sets the townie wagon into motion, adds nothing new to the case, votes somebody for being a "liability for the town", and has his entire post consist of parroting Bard and Pesco. All of this is bad for reasons I should not need to explain, but basically it looks like he's scum going for an easy wagon jump. It is also notable that he never mentioned the suspicion he appeared to have on me in that post ever again, which is a little odd.
* His defense of Bob (which makes no sense since he was voting Bob as well) reads... really oddly to me and seems like Schezo is pretty much stating the obvious. "Townies don't want to lynch power roles!" Well, durr. I also think the post reads a little like he expected Bob to be town, which is awful considering the vote.
* Hourai vote reads as... a rather weak OMGUS, actually, and it seems as if he is trying to dodge having to defend himself completely in #147. Yes, Schezo, Hourai wanted you to defend yourself, but it's not like you can't scumhunt and defend yourself at the same time, so the "Hourai is pressuring people into defending themselves and getting town nowhere" argument is pretty bad.
* The end of #150 is basically saying "I'm going to keep voting Hourai until he switches off of me" which is ughhh. Using threats to stop people from pressuring you in lieu of an actual defense, much?
Looking at the two side by side, I think I would much rather see Schezo lynched. Hourai had a couple of bad screw-ups, sure, but Schezo's mistakes are not only more plentiful, but also more downright scummy than Hourai's which often come off as if they could just as easily be newbie derp. The case on Schezo is also a lot more concrete as well, as we have a townie flip on the wagon he jumped while we do not have such a luxury when attempting to read Hourai.
##Unvote
##Vote Schezo as a tie-breaker, since it doesn't seem like a Rou lynch is happening today and I might not be around for the deadline
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whoops instead of doing the thing I said I was going to do I'm just going to hammer hourai more sorry guys
oh but first this popped up on my reread
I'm not a particular fan of huhwhat, Pesco and VgT's votes on Bob, all three were done very early in the game with pretty weak ass reasons and never received any follow-ups towards the end of the day
everyone shits on you due to your lack of scumhunting and the first thing you do is call out the person who was nightkilled lmfao
anyways, Hourai is just super bad. I'm going to run through what he did D1 because I think it's kind of funny.
Votes him here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533368.html#msg533368). Reasoning: "I agree with the reasons and rationale behind voting Schezo. I don't have much more to contribute without just copying someone else, it's all been said before. So I guess I'm going to jump on."
Pesco says: "Bob and Schezo are at L-3 by my count. The speed of it bothers me a lot. Hourai's #71 and the vote followup from Bob feels wrong."
Hourai responds (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533394.html#msg533394): "I see the rationale behind voting Schezo, regardless of who went before me."
huh what says: "It is a bit irritating that Schezo has not returned to defend himself, however." Schezo posts, Hourai says (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533403.html#msg533403) "And Schezo, POINTING THE FINGER WITHOUT EVEN DEFENDING YOURSELF AGAIN. "
Doll says: "I think Hourai just can't think of anything to say and really did agree with what Bob said"
Hourai says (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533412.html#msg533412): "Dangitt, I never said I agreed with Bob." He then calls Schezo out (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533435.html#msg533435) for lack of defense again (note: Schezo has not posted since the the first time Hourai called him out about defense)
Pesco says: "Hourai talked nothing on Schezo before, what was the buildup of evidence? So what if you agree. Why do you agree?"
Hourai says (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533465.html#msg533465): "No defense. And then when we see the pressure start to be directed towards me before, Schezo goes for it too. Take the pressure off himself. POINTING THE FINGER, STILL NO DEFENSE AT ALL." (Note: Schezo has not posted since the last two times Hourai called him out about defense)
Pesco says: "Schezo is a pile of useless confusion, but how's any of what you're accusing him of actually scummy?"
Hourai says (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533474.html#msg533474): "I'm not entirely convinced he's scum. But if the dude can't make an argument on why he should stay in the game, then the dude should not stay in the game. Regardless of affiliation." He follows up: "I haven't seen a shred of evidence that make me think he's town. I said I wasn't entirely convinced, but I do think he errs on the side of scum." Further followup: "I'm going to stick to my guns and vote for the guy who I think is scummy."
So basically his case on Schezo was "I agree with the other guys" and then when huh what said something about defense he took that and ran with it. When asked to elaborate why he agreed with everyone else, he said "no defense." When asked why that made Schezo scummy, he evaded the question entirely, and then said "I find him scummy." Oh, and this is especially hilarious: here's what Hourai made a point of saying he wasn't agreeing with Bob about:
Furthermore, Schz hasn't responded to accusations, and half-gives rV a free ride for cruising on by in his latest post, not to mention it contributed next to nothing. [...] And regarding Free Rides: Don't.
Day 2 he says "please don't make me defend what I did day 1 because I'm a new player. I think Schezo is scum because he has no defense and may be hiding behind his derpiness." huh what, Schezo, and I all strongly call out reV for his lurking. Hourai immediately posts (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg534879.html#msg534879) "I'm suspicious that you are scum because you went for an easy jump on Bob, while parroting, and then you go and defend reV right after he admits to lurking and calling the discussion crud." He has never mentioned reV before this. He makes a point about how the Pesco nightkill could have been because Pesco was suspicious of reV; when it was pointed out that Pesco was also suspicious of him, his response was "I have no defense for that."
Every single thing he does is either stolen from someone else or contradicts something else he's already said. Every reason he uses to vote Schezo can also be used to vote against himself. He's spent the entire game focused on Schezo, to the point of pretty much ignoring every other player (aside from reV, who he uses only as a tool to go after Schezo more.)
jesus I need to fuckin' go to bed. sorry this post is so long. let's just wrap it up here: ##unvote, vote: Hanged Hourai.
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Might be needless nitpicking since it happened during ED1, but whatever happened to your slight suspicion of him from earlygame? Was it just because he seemed to drop the pressure on me that you claimed to dislike? You didn't actually say anything positive about him on D1, so this opinion feels like a complete 180 to me.
He made the point about 'hey HW called out Bob first' that Bard made later (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535110.html#msg535110), and I was caught up in d1 derp and was busy thinking BUT WAIT NO PESCO IS BAD BECAUSE HE VOTED FIRST. And I admit I was tunneling very hard on Bob d1 and wasn't paying as much attention as I could have.
In short, it was a shitty d1 point and in retrospect was worth jack shit.
This... honestly seems like you're clearing him over WIFOM. What is it about Affinity's action that makes it look townie-ish rather than a null tell, provided that Schezo is town like he is in your hypothetical scenario? Sure, the voteswitch might draw slight attention on principle, but it is not nearly enough to support an entire case on Affinity, and if both wagons are townie, then it's not going to cast him in a particularly good or bad light after Schezo's flip since it provides no tactical advantage to scum yet could be an attempt to come across as having more believably existant opinions. So how does this boil down to more than a WIFOM-y null tell as is, especially in your hypothetical scenario that Schezo will flip town? The only way I can see it possibly giving us information on Affinity's alignment is if Schezo flips scum, but you still seem to be clearing him over the fast wagon that never flipped, sooo.
The simple fact that if it's a Town/Town wagon, Scum!Aff jumping wagons at the last second is entirely pointless. Either way, a Townie's going to get lynched, so why make that unnecessary push for Bob when it was already guaranteed to be one or the other?
Then there's the possibility of Aff!Scum and Schezo!Scum. But even disregarding what I said earlier about the wagon, I find it hard to believe Aff and Schezo are in cahoots given that Affinity's tied Schezo up for the lynch here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg536113.html#msg536113).
Again, it's the only hard piece of evidence I had on him either way. Everything else about him read as sort of a null-tell - nothing I could put a word to, and with no real evidence pointing towards him as scummy I'm not seeing a reason to point a case at him. I don't agree with what he says, but for the most part it seems to have been genuinely thought out rather than used manipulatively.
Honestly, I think VgT's laid out the Hourai case about as well as can be laid out. I'm sticking to my guns here and holding to Hourai. Last check, both the Hourai and Schezo wagons were at L-2, and the only people not on the wagons are Doll, Bard, and the absent Neo.
On that point, Mod: At what point will Neo be modkilled if you can't find a replacement?
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@huhwhat:
Okay, I don't know if I was just not very thorough at all when re-reading, but I never actually saw Hourai make this observation. Sure, Hourai said that Schezo is scummy for failing to put proper pressure on reVelske, but I cannot seem to find a post where he goes that in-depth or even brings active lurking / IIoA into the matter.
I don't see how you can go very in-depth into something like improper pressure. 'Wait-and-see' and 'insufficient pressure' raised by Hourai at around here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg534900.html#msg534900) pretty much means IIoA and active lurking combined. I might be biased since this point doesn't seem to have been raised before, but yeah, I think that's what he meant. Admittedly, my faith in Hourai seems to be wholly placed on this point and the activeness he has been putting onto the Schezo case; I'm not really looking at his other more questionable reasons and bad play about 'defense'.
---
@Schezo:
Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535561.html#msg535561). Not really substantial but around the levels of many others like PX.
---
While Schezo seems to be stepping up his play slightly with some token reasons for his votes, I still don't like the way he went about it for the reasons above. The quip he did on Hourai seems too little too late, and while I see some following-up, I still see more towniness in Hourai. So yeah, keeping my vote. Can't elaborate more due to limited time but yeah.
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Can't get a moment's rest, can I?
Regarding reVelske, I express happiness. He has currently stopped going predominantly for his own defence and has moved on to the loftier goal of hunting down the filthy scums.
On that subject matter, it still saddens me that Schezo once again takes the lead, and I admit displeasure if this becomes an issue again tomorrow. Town cannot possibly have only one candidate pushed to the front and escape from the noose.
If I go read Schezo's posts in isolation, I admit pleasure at him pointing out Huh What's hypocrisy in voting Bob, but then he... would rather vote Bob for being a liability rather than scummy, and because the "day is nearing an end"... which was absolutely false at the time. I cannot imagine why he would jump on the easier Bob case in light of the observation that Huh What used a double-standard to vote, and it is this that turns my pleasure into displeasure.
The thing that irks me is that he then proceeds to explain Bob's actions, which seems innocuous at first but quickly descends into something worse─he's feeding us his own interpretation, instead of letting Bob explain himself. I should have caught this sooner.
The damning point comes after reVelske's post, in which Schezo continues to refuse to move off of "liability for town" and onto "scummy"─reV marks the second time Schezo looks to someone else and says they are suspicious. His accusation to Bob in #91, that Bob is trying to "quick-lynch" is laughable at best.
The start of Day2 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg534892.html#msg534892) isn't much better, because he claims to have explained why he jumped on Bob, but surprise! He didn't. He only said that it was scummy that Bob wanted the attention off himself, which is honestly a bogus point because whom of us want to be the spotlight of a lynch mob's attention?
I find him more suspicious than Hourai, for all that Hourai's participation has been lackluster. Of the few posts Hourai makes, few really come to mind as memorable, but at the very least they also leave no sour taste on a re-read. I see she made a valid point here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg534879.html#msg534879).
In summation.
##UNVOTE
##VOTE: Schezo
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Third Count of Day Two
ReVelske (L-5) Roukanken, Huh what, Bardiche, VgameT
Schezo (L-1) Hanged Hourai, ReVelske, Affinity, Huh what, Bardiche
Hanged Hourai (L-2) Schezo, Roukanken, PhoeniX Wrong, VgameT
Robotic Doll.S (L-6) PhoeniX Wrong
Roukanken (L-6) Affinity, Huh what
Not Voting: NeoSerela, Robotic Doll.S
With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to Lynch
3 hours left.
Schezo is at L-1
If I cannot find a replacement for NeoSerela, he will be modkilled at the beginning of day three. This will give me the most amount of time to find a replacement while not impeding town's progress.
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everyone shits on you due to your lack of scumhunting and the first thing you do is call out the person who was nightkilled lmfao
If I'm gonna mention you and huhwhat, might as well mention everyone who was involved, don't see what's so hilarious about that.
Still particularly uncomfortable with Schezo's general neutral feel in his posts, especially those that addresses me, the previous few posts he made about Hourai was the only bits of aggression he has truly shown this entire game, and this is when both him and Hourai got their backs against the wall more or less. I still think his lynch will be a lot more beneficial to the town than that of Hourai, who may be erratic, nonsensical and scummy, but if he does flip town, we are pretty much taken back to square one and left with not much additional information to work with.
I am no longer following all the anti-Hourai/Schezo stuff, I don't see anything of value to come out of that anymore, one of them has to go tonight. Now Instead paying that any more attention than it deserves, I'd say people should start looking at the experienced/pro-active players:
Bard - gone MIA once again.
Affinity - appearance has been sporadic but has done nothing that could possibly incriminate him aside from his strange last minute switch at the end of Day One.
Rouk - Confessed his love for VgT twice. Shares opinion with VgT, bashes Hourai hard whilst clearing Schezo as a derp and clearing Affinity with a silly WIFOM, and his end of day one attack on Bob still seem rather suspect and feels a little forced. Slight feud with Rouk.
VgT - Clears Schezo as a derp too (not directly, but hints at it), bashes Hourai hard.
huhwhat - WIFOM clear hourai earlier, though suggests how he's gradually starting to look worse, doesn't seem to have as much conviction against Schezo as, say, VgT's and Rouk's on Hourai, but do push for a Schezo lynch. Slight feud with Rouk.
PX - Apparently the head of my fanclub, doesn't show all that much opinion about Hourai, bashes Schezo.
Nothing truly incriminating on any of them yet, but that will thankfully change by tomorrow, Schezo lynch still looks more useful for that purpose than Hourai's though.
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Nevermind about MIA Bard. -_-
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Mod: Just saying that VgT shifted to Hourai back here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg537154.html#msg537154) Only one post in it and I still really don't like the Schezo lynch.
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And with that, Deadline passed.
Schezo took a bow, and lifted away his costume.
"I want to thank everyone for this game.
I tried hard to follow, I've only myself to blame.
Well now, I get low and I get high
And if I can't get either, I really try
Got the wings of heaven on my shoes
I'm a dancin' man and I just can't lose
You know it's all right, it's okay
I'll live to see another day
We can try to understand
Gensokyo Time's effect on man"
Schezo was Iku Nagae, Mafia Goon
Please send in your night actions.
-
Last night Hanged Hourai, who was actually Reisen Udongein Inaba, Town Doctor Was killed.
Serpentarius replaces NeoSerela
And now, a Message from our dearly departed Schezo
"I had a pleasant time with my first game, and enjoyed playing with you all.
I thought I might have been able to pull out until day 3 but you all saw to that. I have a lot to learn from this game and I hope I can improve for later on."
And now, it's time for Shrine Fortune!
Oh, but be very careful! It doesn't seem like anyone's fortune is on the rise!
It looks like very few of you will be lucky today...
And with that, everyone still in the game drew their fortune.
1. reVelske: Kind of lucky - You will find a beautiful flower if you keep your eyes on the road in front of you.
3. Anarchy PX: Not really lucky Be wary of bee stings today.
4. Robotic Doll.S: Mildly lucky If you dance today, you're likely to receive a compliment!
6. Serpentarius Almost lucky If you donate 50 cents, you will find two quarters on the ground.
7. Affinity Bad Luck be careful of risky deals.
10. VgameT Sort of lucky Something might fall into your lap when you least expect it!
11. huh what Very Unlucky you will not find the love of your life this week.
12. Bardiche Super Lucky! The mod will call you by your player name for the rest of the day.
13. Roukanken Poor luck There is nothing behind you, so keep looking forward.
"Suwako!"
"I didn't do anything!" the frog goddess cried frantically.
"Why weren't they fortunes written with powers on them?"
"I don't know! I swear I didn't write any of them!" Spin spin
"You were the only one-wait, that spinning...?"
Suwako turned to see what caught Kanako's eye. Hina was there.
"Hina, did you have anything to do with those fortunes?"
"Yes!" She plainly admitted. "I sensed great misfortune at the shrine, so I gathered it up."
"I see..."
Later, at the river leading from the Shrine Lake, Hina was tied up and placed into a rather appropriately sized boat.
"Umm..." Hina began nervously. "What are you doing to me?"
"It's only proper" Lady Yasaka replied. "To send the Nagashi-bina down the river."
"But, I'm not really a doll, I'm a godess. I just lead the Nagashi-bina!" Hina's protested.
"Have a nice trip." Kanako said pleasently, waving.
"Wait! Doesn't this lead to a waterfall?" Hina asked, fear plain in her voice.
"See you next fall." Kanako said in a voice combining the earlier pleasantry with a sing-song attitude and a dash of death threat.
Day 3 Ends Sunday, Jan. 30th, at 3:00 p.m. EST.
With 9 alive, Majority takes 5.
-
Well, this is awkward.
It's now I find that I've talked myself up the wrong tree. I won't make any effort to defend myself here, on the simple point that I honestly believed what I said. What I will honestly do, though, is admit I was barking up the wrong tree. Again.
The odds of Hourai being scum as well are pretty much miniscule to the point where they can be negated. The presence of the third reVelske wagon as an option to jump on instead makes it even harder to think Hourai is scum [much to my chagrin, admittedly]. (Irrelevant because Hourai is dead now.)
This allows us to form decent opinions of two groups of people - the ones who near the end of the day tied the votes between Schezo and Hourai [very scummy] and the ones who likewise put Schezo back into the lead [very Townie].
As such, I'm pretty much handing passes to Affinity, Huh What and Bard unless something horrible happens against them. Of these three Affinity's is probably the least trustworthy given
- a) The fact he jumped onto Bob to prevent a Schezo lynch D1
- b) Meta knowledge of Scum!Affinity having a preference when it comes to bussing buddies [see JK9].
HW and Bard, though, I'm generally feeling very good about in light of these facts.
As for people whose votes served to make Schezo safe, we have one reeeeeally big offender. One who I'd agreed with up until now, but now that I've been proven wrong so has he as well. Maybe this will come across as a 180, but in light of the facts I'm gonna have to
##Vote: VgameT
A three-step guide to understanding this case!
1. Look up VgT's recent posts.
2. See that he's made no worthwhile mention of the Schezo case AT ALL. Seriously, he doesn't even REFER to the case for the entire of D2. The closest he gets to mentioning Schezo is saying one of his lines doesn't make sense here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533468.html#msg533468), while he offers nothing else of any use on it.
3. Also notice that he has been tunneling entirely on reV and Hourai, and was present on Bob d1 with a 'hey look OMGUS' vote.
I also want to see a good meaty post from Serp now, given that Neo has left us absolutely nothing to just him by for the last two days.
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##Vote: Roukan
Explanation will have to wait, food and gaming takes priority, but I really don't have the patience to wait before placing this damn vote.
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EBWOP: 'Nothing to judge him by', I mean. -_-
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##Vote Roukanken
My entire D2 case still stands, except now that we have Schezo's flip we know that his choice to pursue the Schezo wagon over the townie wagon that flipped was essentially a giant chainsaw.
There's not really much more to say.
I do, however, like what Rou said about VgT. I'd also like to point out that after I broke the tie in Schezo's favor, VgT was the one responsible for tying the wagons back up again with his Hourai vote. I actually meant to re-read VgT overnight but never got around to that, so yeah, he's pretty much my second choice for the day, might even switch my vote if he looks worse on re-read.
Will post something with more substance to it eventually, but I want to place my vote down while I can since I might not be the most active today (in case it wasn't obvious what my stances would be today already).
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Well, I missed voting for Schezo (slept early, wole up too early, forgot about mafia, slept again, woke up and then I remembered about it, by which it was too late) so I guess I have to settle for second most suspicious person on my list, which is:
##Vote: Roukan
I'm not good at long explanations so here's a summary of why:
Your pursuit of Hourai in that thinking him scum instead of a power role and dismissing Schezo altogether put you in a bad light and now that we know who's who, this puts you in a really bad light, which is just kind of mild light to me, but oh well *shrug*
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Ah, what a twist. Well, the surviving can be split into 3 groups: Those voting Hourai, those voting Schezo, and the nulltells (Elidibs and Doll). One scum is guaranteed to be in the Hourai group, and the other scum is more likely in the Schezo Group, although it being in the null is an okay possibility.
Of those in the Hourai group, VgT is very suspicious due to what Roukan said, with a few amendments. His D1 play was a call on Bob's OMGUS vote, and a few opinions. D2 was just the full reV thing, him jumping on hourai every chance he got, and defending Schezo every chance he could.
Rou: You clearing Schezo based on WIFOM doesn't help you now. However, I refuse to believe that the 2 remaining scum would get caught in the same wagon, and your vote came first, so unless something makes you more scummy.
Anyways, I'm waiting to see how VgT will respond to these posts.
Also, cut by HW
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One scum is guaranteed to be in the Hourai group, and the other scum is more likely in the Schezo Group, although it being in the null is an okay possibility.
What's your reasoning on this, exactly? What makes you so sure that both weren't on Hourai, for example?
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As has been stated, those who worked against the Schezo wagon are most likely to be scum. Considering how fluid the voting was right up until Schezo reached L-1, I don't think that scum expected Schezo to be the day's lynch, and none of the votes on Schezo strike me as flimsy enough to be an obvious bus, so I think that scum were trying to get Hourai lynched. This makes RDS's non-vote look somewhat better, although he really needs to start taking some real stances soon (and I suppose his Rou vote just now counts as such).
Between Rou, PX, and VgameT, I see that Rou moved his vote from reV to Hourai rather early, even before it was clear that Hourai would be the townie wagon running against Schezo's - in fact, if Rou had kept his vote where it was, then reV would have remained in the lead over Schezo (three votes over two), and this is when reV was looking like a very attractive bandwagon. So unless reV is scum with Rou, I don't see scum intent in Rou's Hourai vote alone.
VgameT's general reasoning all game has been pretty solid, making me nod along with his statements during my re-read (though this might be largely because I wasn't especially convinced by the Schezo wagon either during my initial read). However, the fact that he voted Hourai and tied him with Schezo (four versus four votes, with only Bardiche's vote to follow) so late in the day is about as alarming as any vote can be. Extremely suspicious as far as pure wagon analysis goes, but his reasoning hasn't seemed scummy to me, so it could just be coincidence. Still my close 2nd choice as far as suspicion goes.
PX tops my list due to putting Hourai in the lead over Schezo (and Rou, for that matter) at a critical point (three votes over Schezo's two), without being backed up by very good reasoning. His vote against Schezo D1 doesn't carry much weight at all, since it was the only vote against Schezo at the time, and I doubt he could have predicted that Schezo would draw two more votes and become a serious lynch option so early. And his vote against Hourai is unconvincing - strikes me more as a strategic vote than a sincere one.
##Vote: PhoeniX Wrong
Would prefer one of these three to be lynched, but my priorities as things stand are as I've indicated here.
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His vote against Schezo D1 doesn't carry much weight at all, since it was the only vote against Schezo at the time
...What? You're thinking of Affinity. PX was the second on the wagon I believe, which looks a bit better to me actually.
Working on a post.
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aaaaahahahahaha christ I'm retarded apparently, well done me
I'm at work right now so I don't have time for a thread reread but I can at least respond to dudes so the game doesn't get held up. obviously I need to rethink my approach but that'll have to happen later tonight.
I pretty much mentally wrote off Schezo because I was very confident about reV and Hourai being scum, and both of them were voting him. That was obviously a mistake, but there you go. I voted for the dude I thought was scum. If the things that I said about Hourai D2 were incorrect, nobody brought it up :X
Of those in the Hourai group, VgT is very suspicious due to what Roukan said, with a few amendments. His D1 play was a call on Bob's OMGUS vote, and a few opinions. D2 was just the full reV thing, him jumping on hourai every chance he got, and defending Schezo every chance he could.
Rou's point was that I didn't mention Schezo at all, though? I'm not sure where you see me defending Schezo. Otherwise, yes, those are some things that I did. Was there something you wanted to say about those things or is that just IIoA? If anything Rou seemed to be defending Schezo an awful lot.
balls, I'm over on my lunch. I'll be back!
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I said Rou defended Schezo based on a flimsy WIFOM reason (which is now invalid), so he's very discredited. But his vote came out first, so he's got a little more credit than you. And you just grabbed Hourai's points and threw them back at him, completely ignoring that they were slightly valid against Schezo.
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VgameT : Roukanken
Roukanken : ReVelske, huh what, Doll.S,
Phoenix Wrong : Serpentarius
Roukan is already at L-2, for whom it matters.
This votecount will be made pretty sometime tomorrow morning.
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PX in general seems far more on the ball than he was yesterday. Almost disturbingly so. The fact he more or less stole most of his content today (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg538515.html#msg538515) from me (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg538422.html#msg538422) doesn't help. Not to mention his apparently prophylactic knowledge that there's only one scum on the Hourai wagon and the other was a bus. PX, I still want to see you clarify how you're so sure of that, and even better - if you think there's a scum on the Schezo wagon, who and why?
My problem is that I can't decide what's scummier - defending a buddy, or doing your best to act as if he doesn't exist. In terms of useful thoughtful content I'd prefer VgT as Town, but obviously this isn't a popularity contest. I find it hard to believe a strong and experienced player could conveniently not mention a leading case at all, but at the same time PX's sudden burst of...is it even competence? It worries me.
I would not find a PX/VgT scumpair impossible to believe at this juncture. I'd certainly find it easier to believe than my other theories like 'Affinity decided to bus his partner at just about the most crucial moment possible'.
Would like to see a proper response from VgT before I consider changing my vote.
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I know for sure that I'm town, so I find it nearly impossible that all 3 scum would be in the exact same wagon. It just doesn't work that way unless it's a newbie scum squad, and that's pretty much impossible at this point.
In all honesty, I wanted both Hourai and Schezo dead, due to intuition telling me one of them had to be scum. Oh the irony.
Yes, having my vote parked on Hourai turned out bad, and my Schezo D1 case was horrible, but Affinity claims the first vote on Schezo.
As for the bussing thing, it could be wrong. I said before that there's a chance that either of the 2 nulltells to be scum, but there's no way to prove that without someone dying.
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Okay let's try sum some thoughts up.
The one thing that absolutely puzzles me is the amounts of derps Rouk has delivered through out the game: Pathetic attempt of an attack on Bob at the end of Day One (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533523.html#msg533523) + WIFOM clear on Schezo and Affinity and repeat emphasis on the WIFOM reasoning as if it's solid fact (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535510.html#msg535510). Bard has pointed them out to him but Rouk seems to remain oblivious to it all. Is he usually this derp? He certainly doesn't give off that impression the previous game I've played him (where he was a disinterested scum), so I'm just curious, can anyone tell me if he derps like this in previous games he play?
Another thing that bothers me slightly (also something I count towards his derpiness) was how he tried to buddy-up to VgT on Day Two, TWICE, when airing opinions about the players. I can understand showing general agreement to another player, but... "I like VgT, keeps his stuff short and sweet, and I agree with a lot of it. I like this guy."? And then "VgT - Honestly? I like VgT. He's consise, and I agree with just about everything he says."? Why would you possibly want to do that? If anything, it draws negative attention, and wasn't it YOU who said "Except that Town would RATHER PAY ATTENTION TO SCUM THAN HAVE TIME WASTED ON THEMSELVES?" when Bob said that not all negative attentions are bad?
TBH, my vote on Rouk is mainly due to the derps, but now that I think about it, it hardly translates to scumminess except for the fact that I feel that his display of stupidity is a little forced and staged, for what purpose? I can't really decide. Soooo... yeah, if someone can shed some light on his usual playstyle, it'd be appreciated.
NOW, onto other things.
I believe we should rely more on Day One's voting distribution to determine who the scums are rather than Day Two, since the Day Two votes carry a lot of busing potentials, and I'm sure everyone can agree that at least one person on Bob's wagon is a scum (Roukanken vs huhwhat vs VgameT vs Affinity).
VgT... the Rouk without the derp, everything he's done has been pretty logical TBH, aggressive, constant pressure on his targets, logical. Only fault I see with him is that he's too single-minded with his targets and too content with ignoring everyone else, but I'm happy to write that off simply as his playstyle. It may not be all that smart to write off Schezo as a derp the way he did, but at least he never tried to excuse it with some ridiculous reasons. Still on the suspect list but I just don't see anything that can truly incriminate him more than anyone else.
Nothing really noteworthy about huhwhat, he's played the counter-Rouk the entire Day Two, issue with him is that he never seemed to be all too convinced about Schezo, he repeated a couple times that the possibility of Schezo being town is there, yet still expressed his willingness to vote for him, reasoning it to benefit the town more than Hourai-lynch and only end up jumping on the wagon towards the end of the Day... He has certainly left himself with room to go for Hourai (stating how Hourai was gradually looking worse despite how he cleared Hourai with a WIFOM earlier), soooo.... I dunno, I definitely see the possibility of him being the scum and going for the safer solution at the end of Day Two, but... I dunno.
Affinity: End of Day One wagon jump, enough said? Of course not. The guy has been reasonably neutral through out the game, everything he says seem perfectly logical, good analysis, good questions raised, everything seem perfectly pro-town, but he's just been so unaggressive (yeah yeah no such word), his comments of both Hourai and Schezo in Day Two always seem to involve a slap then a pat on the back. I'm just getting a really bad vibe about it all, maybe it's just because he's playing similarly to his previous game where he was a scum, his logical posts and his busing of his scumbuddy had him sail comfortably into victory.
And, with the others...
DollS once again chose not to place any vote in Day Two, as suspect as he is now, I'm happy to ignore his lack of participation, reason? He's far less of a threat to the town than the other potential scum (assuming there is another), and judging from the logical night kills, I'd like to think there's an experienced player in the scum team that's making these decision. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying DollS is too stupid to be making these night kills, it's just that personal, I expect him to be night killing based on some other criteria judging from his playstyle.
PX is meh, nothing much to be said about him, everything he did makes good enough sense but none of his actions really clear him as town though. Except for him being the second the jump on Schezo's wagon on Day One, but that could just be him not expecting the wagon to really build up enough to threaten that of Bob's.
I still need to reread on Bard, though I feel good about the way he has played in general, well, a little better than the rest at least.
So to conclude:
Everyone looks like fucking scums. Though I'm starting to feel worse about Affinity than Rouk.
Let's see what people has to say about my analysis, what have I missed, what am I wrong about, etc.
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No change in voting
There are 44 Hours left in the day.
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Nothing really noteworthy about huhwhat, he's played the counter-Rouk the entire Day Two, issue with him is that he never seemed to be all too convinced about Schezo, he repeated a couple times that the possibility of Schezo being town is there, yet still expressed his willingness to vote for him, reasoning it to benefit the town more than Hourai-lynch and only end up jumping on the wagon towards the end of the Day...
I wanted to focus on Rou D2 after I changed my mind about you since I thought I was onto something regarding him. This does not mean I did not find Schezo scummy (in fact, I'm pretty sure I even went after him a bit in my first post), I just wanted a Rou lynch more, hence why I switched to my second choice when it became obvious that wasn't going to happen.
If you're talking about D1, then I was hesistant to jump onto Schezo there due to his alignment hinging entirely on Bob's flip as well as the speed his wagon came up. (Plus, Bob looked worse to me.) After Bob flipped all of that was pretty much null, as it showed that the Schezo had indeed jumped on a townie and also that the turning point that caused Schezo to become a fastly growing rival wagon was a vote from a townie (Bob).
Still not liking either Rou or VgT after a re-read. I would not be very surprised if they scum together, actually, what with Rou actively shilling VgT throughout D2. Being one of the later jumpers onto the Bob wagon does not do him favors either. VgT's #160 does not look very good after the recent flips, he lays out a decent case on the now-flipped Hourai which actually seems more convincing than the dirt he has on reV, yet he continues to cling to the reV wagon until Schezo (flipped scum) starts looking to be the most likely lynch, where he ties up the two wagons. I suppose this could be interpreted as VgT taking his vote off reV now that reV contributed, but if he intended to do that, he could have done so in #199 (since reV had started producing by then). Because of this, the timing of his switch onto the Hourai wagon looks a lot like an attempt to get a scumbuddy out of a jam, which isn't good. He also gave pretty much ignored Schezo aside from a line or so saying that he felt Schezo was genuinely trying to scumhunt. I suppose I should have asked this earlier, but now that Schezo has flipped, I'm especially curious, since VgT never gave examples when saying so. VgT, what about Schezo's supposed scumhunting felt genuine enough for you to give him a pass?
Meanwhile, as I stated in post #189 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535411.html#msg535411), Rou looks horrible for attacking Bob all D1 over a weak case revolving around rolefishing without even taking any of the other points against Bob into consideration, as well as clearing Schezo over some WIFOM while attacking the people on Schezo's wagon rather than the people on the D1 wagon that had actually flipped town. Now that Schezo has flipped scum, this comes off as a blatant chainsaw on the players who attacked a scumbuddy, and as far as buddy-defending is convercned, the blatant attacks on Hourai and awkward-looking clears on Schezo seem more damning than VgT's two or so lines about Schezo looking like he's trying to play pro-town, or at least to me they do. Would give Rou the slight edge in scumminess because of this, and will keep my vote on him for now.
As for PX, I admit I haven't been paying too much attention to him this game, but I feel checking him out is at least worth it after Serp's post.
...Meh, he seems pretty iffy to me. While his vote on Schezo on D1 does feel rather townie (had it not been for him, it's possible the D1 Schezo wagon would have never kicked off past Affinity's vote), his change of heart on D2 just feels plain weird. Even though Bob flipped worse and Schezo should look scummier than before, he gave up on his Schezo case entire and instead hammered on the rival townie wagon. Going after an easy target (Doll) on the sides doesn't look very great either, and a lack of content so far today that isn't parroting others or "multiple scum on the same wagon"-related silliness does nothing to ease my suspicions. I wouldn't prioritize PX as high as Rou and VgT on the list of people I think are scum, but I'm wary of him.
tl;dr Both Rou and VgT are good lynch candidates in my opinion, but Rou still has the slight edge due to how horrible his interactions with the Schezo wagon looked. Wouldn't want to see VgT live past tomorrow though, bar something amazing happening.
While Affinity's jump onto Bob does look pretty bad on paper, I don't consider it as scummy as it seems at first. Bob already looked like he was guaranteed to be the day's lynch, scum!Affinity would have had nothing to gain but suspicion by jumping from a scum wagon to a townie wagon when it already seemed that the townie was going to be lynched, and probably would have been more cautious. May need to look into this more later, though, in case I totally missed something.
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If you're talking about D1, then I was hesistant to jump onto Schezo there due to his alignment hinging entirely on Bob's flip as well as the speed his wagon came up. (Plus, Bob looked worse to me.) After Bob flipped all of that was pretty much null, as it showed that the Schezo had indeed jumped on a townie and also that the turning point that caused Schezo to become a fastly growing rival wagon was a vote from a townie (Bob).
I meant the D2 hesitation with your Schezo vote.
I suppose this could be interpreted as VgT taking his vote off reV now that reV contributed, but if he intended to do that, he could have done so in #199 (since reV had started producing by then).
Regarding VgT, it looked to me like he was simply letting emotion dictate his judgment, which people tend to do when you have someone with my playstyle floating around (I would know, wouldn't I? :D), and his general aggression does make him appear like someone who's impulsive enough to be that silly (i.e. stupid). Though, same with Roukan, can someone confirm his past playstyle? Does he usually play with such aggression and show such single-mindedness?
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So Rou, is that honestly your entire case on VgameT? Of all the things there are to say, your entirely case honestly breaks down into "doesn't mention Schezo" and "tunnels hard"?
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Some stuffs before I go do a reread.
In all honesty, I wanted both Hourai and Schezo dead, due to intuition telling me one of them had to be scum. Oh the irony.
If you did, you sure had a strange way of showing it; your post here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535682.html#msg535682) says "Schezo is going down the scum meter because he's starting to do good posts though" and your last real post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg536774.html#msg536774) D2 says "Schezo has gone down the scum meter somewhat since he's starting to post legitimate posts." Feel free to continue calling other people out for defending Schezo, though.
(stuff about vote timing and reason for saying schezo looked pro-town)
As of post #160 reV was still posting nothing but defense. My case on him was basically "abstaining from scumhunting during all of D1 and all of D2 thusfar is extremely scummy," so given that he still hadn't scumhunted, I felt that leaving my vote on him was the way to go. His defense didn't do anything for me, and we got into a back-and-forth thing where all of his responses just made me more convinced that he was scum. I eventually realized that if we kept going at it, it was just going to be me going AAAAA and reV responding to everything I said, which wasn't going to get us anywhere (and the rest of the town seemed to have already made their minds up about him one way or another) so I stopped.
#160 was basically a response for Doll; I originally noticed the thing I brought up #155 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535038.html#msg535038) and then Doll asked me why I thought Hourai was scummy, so I was like "that's a good question, I should reread Hourai and see what's up with that. haha man what the fuck Hourai." Hourai didn't respond to everyone until I had decided to stop hammering reV, and then I got stuck in the same loop I had with reV (Hourai posts a response to me or other players and I go "haha what the fuck Hourai," causing him to respond again, etc.) By the end of the day it was obvious that nobody else thought reV was worth pursuing, and by that point I had heard enough out of Hourai to consider him scum, so I voted him. I do agree the timing was unfortunate, though, especially given the circumstances. Again, though, at that point I was super convinced that Hourai and reV were the best lynch candidates, and both of them were going after Schezo, so I basically just went "innocent by association" and didn't even think to look into him. That was obviously also a mistake :X
As for why I said I thought Schezo was OK in #160: I thought his point about Hourai in #91 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533398.html#msg533398) was pretty good, and then his followup case in #147 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg534866.html#msg534866) seemed pretty good as well. At that point in the game I was mostly just seeing Hourai going after Schezo, and Hourai's logic made my brain explode, so that probably contributed as well. Seeing Schezo go "you haven't answered other people's questions for you" and seeing Hourai respond "that's because it happened D1, which I asked everyone to forget" kind of made me go "well, that's a point in Schezo's favor."
umm in other news where are bard and affinity
oh there you are bard. hi bard! ok where's affinity
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Rou: Hey, here's a list of all the times you defended Schezo.
#121 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533523.html#msg533523) - "The problem I have is that there's nothing outright malicious in what he's said - it's derp rather than scummy - and yet four votes fell on him in the space of about 20 posts, one of which was Bob suddenly jumping away from his new OMGUS Pesco case. Compared to Bob, it definitely carries a bigger feel of scum-panic-wagon. In general I'm convinced the Schezo wagon has bad roots, and I really don't think Schezo's derp is as bad as what other people have done today."
#133 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg534723.html#msg534723) - "I'm still thinking Schezo is Town. At the very least, he's not done anything that I wouldn't write up as being more than just derpy."
#177 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535198.html#msg535198) - "As for my opinion on Schezo, in terms of content I decided it mostly on this post. In general, I can't see scum [or indeed scumteam] letting a buddy get away with spouting this sort of nonsense. I'll agree that he needs to step up his game today, but generally I didn't think there was enough against him that seemed genuinely malicious."
"More prominently, and as I said here, I was turned off by the impossible speed the Schezo wagon appeared in. Four Townies do not conveniently come to agreement on the same suspicion within such a short span of time." Also calls out PX for "contributed to the horrible horrible HORRIBLE Schezo bandwagon"
#182 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535278.html#msg535278) - "I'm going to admit that reasoning isn't enough on its own especially given his lack of productivity elsewhere, but I can't get over the speed of that wagon. It's just plain unnatural, and I'm convinced there's at least one, maybe even two scum on that wagon."
#192 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535510.html#msg535510) - "I am still adamant that scum would not press that hard and fast if Schezo was among them, and I find it difficult to believe all four of the members of the quick wagon are Town."
#209 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535986.html#msg535986) - "I probably like Schezo 196 more than I should. It just has a feel of genuine effort to me."
#229 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg537310.html#msg537310) - "Only one post in it and I still really don't like the Schezo lynch." (last post of D2)
Almost every post you made between the start of the wagon D1 and the lynch D2 was in support of Schezo. #209 is especially weird, since it's just straight-up cheerleading. You named PX as your second pick for scum here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535278.html#msg535278) and blasted him again here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535325.html#msg535325), but then when he made it clear that he wasn't going after Schezo, you say "PX has...stepped up his game considerably" and then you never mention him again. Basically, what the fuck, dude? You sure went balls-out trying to get people to not pursue the dude who flipped scum. I'd really like to see you respond to the things people are saying about you.
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Honestly, I don't have a clue what exactly you want me to say. What is there to say other than that I honestly believed that scum wouldn't allow four players to bandwagon a buddy in the space of three hours? I'm not approving of the way people discard it as WIFOM, because it isn't. It involves unnecessarily putting a buddy in danger of being lynched when already the discussion was between Huh what and Bob. We know there's at least one townie in that pair and therefore there's no reason for scum to bring a buddy into the fight as well. The jumping of votes just rung as disgustingly co-ordinated.
That is my defense. That is all I have to offer, and I'm not saying any more on the subject for the sake of repeating myself. I don't know what to say other than 'yes, I really am as stupid as I say I am'.
As for VgT - yes, that is my whole case. I find convenient ignorance more damning than defense, personally.
I had a lot of choice words I nearly posted here, but I'll leave it for postgame where it belongs. For now, let me just say that I'm not going to waste breath defending myself from facts. Now, if you don't mind, I've held myself back from an event I'm meant to be running in real life for 25 minutes to write this.
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huh what: Yes, I was mistaken about PX's vote on Schezo being the first. Not sure whether that's much better, though. Keep in mind that Bob was at four votes, so putting a scumbuddy at 2 wouldn't exactly qualify as a serious bus.
VgameT: I don't really like to condone meta games, but... Yeah, that's pretty much exactly Rou's meta, picking one case and tunneling on it until forced to stop. I haven't seen enough of him as scum to say what his scum meta is, and of course the thing with meta is that it can always be feigned, but the fact that Rou jumped on Hourai so early, rather than switching at some strategic moment when Schezo was under threat, is what makes me view his vote on the apparently townie wagon as not extremely scummy. His defense of Schezo could make sense as pulling for the wagon that he believed would result in a scum flip.
As far as lynch priorities go, I'm pretty annoyed at the way that RDS has basically disappeared again, but I suppose it's better to follow up on our scum flip lead than to just policy lynch a player that seems to be allergic to opinions. Lynch priorities remain the same. I think people need to take a closer look at PX, and if that's not an option, I'd still prefer a VgameT lynch to a Roukanken one.
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In short, I would like to say again that the reason I switched to Bob on D1 is because of Schezo's surprisingly original points on Bob's weird folly with pesco and his late bandwagon jump (he voted pesco when he could have started the case on Schezo) here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg533398.html#msg533398), which made much more sense to me at that time than Bob's vote on Schezo which was just copy-pasting; thus I switched to Bob. At least, that was my thinking, but after the flip my opinion of Schezo went steadily downhill on D2.
As for today, Roukanken is bad for obvious reasons; too obvious perhaps, but this is somewhat counterbalanced by him not specifically pointing out how any of Schezo's posts were any good (unlike mine for example), , and him almost totally reliant on the fact that the bandwagon on him went up too fast, which has nothing to do with Schezo at all. Perhaps the momentum of his actions on Bob carried onto the next day; it would have been hard to change his vote at all on D2 to Schezo... thus I think his current behavior fits scum behavior quite logically, despite the blatancy of all of it. There were also many different reasonable, null-tellish reasons to vote for Hourai, but Roukanken seems have the worst cut of all of them, sticking to the main thing about tunneling on Hourai illogically with minimal views on others, Preferred lynch for today, and nothing that seems defensible, especially when he seems to be the only one going for a untelegraphed PX/VgT scumpair which feels easy and not thought out well. I'm not comfortable with him surviving past today no matter what happens.
VgameT seems fine in comparison; I don't agree with his reasons for voting Hourai either but they certainly seem more thought out here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg537154.html#msg537154), despite his vote being in a more damning position.. The distinction between derp and scum wasn't made clear in that analysis (hard to do), and I don't like the point about Hourai calling Schezo out on defending reV for no reason as scummy (not talking about reV doesn't affect the point imo), but that seems to be about it .
PX pretty much dropped under the radar for me due to his assault on Hourai here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg536774.html#msg536774), which on the whole seemed rather good when coming from him. To add onto Serp's points, however, he does seem to have suddenly revised his opinions on Schezo and even Hourai from D1 to D3 multiple times without precedent *says that Hourai's things against Schezo were 'slightly valid' without raising anything of that sort yesterday', and has mysteriously avoided going after Rou today when he said that he agreed with huhwhat on his Rou bashing in the post on top due to being an' early vote'. This needs to be clarified. Thus, for now,
##Vote: PX
##Kill: Roukanken (since around the number of people required for the lynch have voiced support for the wagon, and since much of the things on Rou doesn't seem defensible. Personally, I think he's a WIFOM we can't afford; a second lynch today would be useful in clearing up stuff and forcing scum to make stances on the off-chance Roukanken is town. And yes, I claim town one-shot dayvig).
-
well then
Will probably be switching to VgT after Rou dies.
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##Kill: Roukanken
Affinity called the energies within his body, and raised he hands to the sky. In the distance, a gleam appeared, as an Onbashira, blessed by Kanako herself, descends. Roukanken helplessly looks upward, but there is nothing he can do but cringe in anticipation of the blow. As expected, there was a large WHAM. The log had almost fully imbedded itself into the ground.
It took roukanken a few moments to realize that while he had indeed felt the impact, it was only indirectly. He opened his eyes, and glanced to his left. There it stood, massive, and harmless. The Onbashira then began to tip over sideways.
well then
Will probably be switching to VgT after Rou dies.
Huh what had casually turned his back towards what was the assumed wreckage. Unknowing of the log's traveling path, he made a casual comment about Rou's supposed death. The log the fell over knocked poor huh what into the ground, where he currently laid unconscious. The godesses brought him into the Shrine to recover while the game continued.
Huh what was Alice Margatroid, Cult Member
VoteCount has been reset.
You have 22 hours left in the day.
With 8 Alive, 5 is the majority.
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WHY
WHY
WHYYYYY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HUu4pZ3bKU)
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...A vig that kills the first person to mention the shot? That's just mean.
And now there's apparently a cult involved in all of this, too. Magical. :[
OK, now that we're set to at best hit MYLO and at worst be stuck in an unwinnable fight between Cult and Scum I'd REALLY not like to die now. Death would've been okay if it still left us at 5/2, but 3towniesmax/2scum/1cultistminimum is just too much for me to roll over and die on. Vote count's been reset, and given I'd rather not die I'm going to support a wagon I can agree with.
##Vote: PX
Lack of presence D1, total hypocrisy and uselessness followed by being far too verbose today reeks of scum coaching, making absurd impossible guarantees on no basis ('only one scum on the Hourai wagon, guys!'), being present on the Hourai wagon for lousy reasons and generally being nonsupportive and stealing his ideas from other people.
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WhiteMageChocobo: I understand where you're coming from but I find it impossible to believe that huh what's cultbuddies would allow him to be accidentally dayvigged.
Rou: what happened to your case on me all of a sudden?
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Rou: what happened to your case on me all of a sudden?
No-one is supporting it, I have less than 24 hours until the lynch, and given that we are now running very low on time [and quite possibly Townies] I would rather we lynched a player I didn't know was Town. Hence, moving to the other wagon I can support.
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WhiteMageChocobo: I understand where you're coming from but I find it impossible to believe that huh what's cultbuddies would allow him to be accidentally dayvigged.
What?
Okay I dunno what's going on anymore so I'm just gonna sit here and twiddle my thumbs.
Guess Affinity cleared? ##Unvote
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*guess affinity is cleared
Well, I'm still confident with my theory that at least one person on Bob's wagon is a scum, doesn't look like the cult is associated with scums, and since Affinity is cleared, it has to be Rouk or VgT.
##vote: Rouk
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Well, I'm still confident with my theory that at least one person on Bob's wagon is a scum, doesn't look like the cult is associated with scums, and since Affinity is cleared, it has to be Rouk or VgT.
Hanged Hourai (L-2) Schezo, Roukanken, PhoeniX Wrong, VgameT
Why not PX? Not a big fan of dichotomies, myself.
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I said Bob's wagon, Hourai/Schezo wagons are hard to read into due to potential busing.
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##VOTE: Roukanken
Your case on VgameT doesn't reek of honest scumhunting, not after all the effort you went through to try and get Schezo's alternative lynched. Jumping on PX with an equally lackluster case just reeks of a lack of effort and I honestly cannot imagine town caught in an "OHSHI" moment to put so little effort into convincing us why we should vote another. Wordswordswords? Screw that, concise mode here.
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Schezo (L-4) Inaba Tewi, Hanged Hourai, Affinity, PhoeniX Wrong, Bob, Hanged Hourai
Well, just to disprove you even more Rou, you suspected that there was scum in the Schezo D1 wagon. You missed completely. You have no power behind your words now. Also, you mentioned in the first post of D3 that you gave free passes to Affinity, Bard, and HW. What about reV? Or Doll?
Also Doll, I'd like to see a long post by you, so we can see your exact opinion on things instead of a summary.
followed by being far too verbose today reeks of scum coaching
...
making absurd impossible guarantees on no basis ('only one scum on the Hourai wagon, guys!')
...See above quote
Anyways, good job on jumping on the only other person with a case on them.
##Vote: Roukanken
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Really, I have nothing new to add that you guys haven't already said but the revelation of cultists is a shocker.....There should be at maximum of two cultist still, what with it being day 3...
Also, I haven't really been paying much attention to this and will re-read everything some other time in the future to provide a better opinion of things.
My vote is still on Roukan though.
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@Doll: Votecount has been reset... so you would have to vote again.
PX has been hilariously hypocritical today considering that he's jumping as much on an easy wagon as Rou has, and that '...' feels way too smug regarding that still needs explanation (why one person on Hourai wagon etc.) As much as I'm liking him less and less, I'm still going for Roukanken today for the above reasons; going for PX was too little too late.
##Vote: Roukanken. L-1, if I'm not wrong.
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And my vote lynches him.
##Vote:Roukan
Anyway, I'll be re-reading it soon, maybe sometimes tonight....
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PX: Roukanken
Roukanken: Everybody else (ReVelske, Bardiche, PX, Affinity, Robotic Doll.S)
Roukanken Has been lynched. At Bardiche's request, Roukanken had quietly teleported away from the shrine. This was because he was Sakuya Izayoi - Vanilla Town
Those with Night Actions left, please send them in.
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ReVelske, who was Tewi Inaba, Anti-Cult, was killed last night.
I have an important announcement to make. This message comes directly from the Maid that was sent home yesterday evening.
"I appear to have dropped a....personal item in the midst of my departure. If anyone should come across a...pad-like object, I would humbly request you forward it to the Scarlet Devil Mansion immediately. No questions will be answered on this item's use or worth."
If you find this object, please return it to Remilia Scarlet, or myself, and we will see to it it is delivered to the SDM.
But before that, We have shrine fortune! *whisper whisper* What do you mean we don't have shrine fortune?
"I did it two days in a row, Kanako! Why can't you do it this time?"
"Because I'm suppose to be overseeing the game! It's my job to update the vote count!"
"Yeah, and you're not even good at that. At least send some of that time sitting around helping out."
The two continue to bicker. It's probably best you all just start the day as normal.
With 6 Alive, it takes 4 to reach consensus.
Day 4 ends at Feb. 3rd, 4:30 p.m. EST.
Also, take caution. Lylo has arrived.
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So, Doll, why the ninja-hammer?
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Affinity, I have reason to suspect you. Please fullclaim.
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Technically, your the last one to vote for Roukan, Bardiche, as I have already voted for Roukan in post 236 but I apparently needed to send my vote again after the vig kill. *shrug*
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##VOTE: Doll
That is not answering the question. Have some more incentive. Why the ninja hammer, Doll?
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.....What ninja hammer mean exactly?
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@Serpentarius: I am Sanae Kotiya, townie one-shot dayvig,and I targeted Roukanken on D3 but ended up killing huhwhat. Other than that, I have no powers. Also, Sanae would like to wish everyone a Happy Chinese New Year, but she came from Japan, sadly.
---
Main thing about reread is that I'm quite suspicious of Doll not being anywhere on the D1 and D2 wagons, but bravely going for Roukanken the entire D3 as if enlightened, and D3 seems to be the only day on which there was no scum on any main wagon (as far as we know), and when Roukanken was somewhat the clear lynch due to past actions. I'm also weary about him not having any solid opinions at all throughout the game and being a general wild card. While PX's opinions do keep changing, Doll never even seemed to really have one... Thus, I would be willing to go for Doll today, though I would rather make this decision if it wasn't LyLO. Doll's reread results would come in handy now (though she doesn't seem to have done one).
PX strongly went for Schezo from early D2 when it was not really needed, which is quite a good thing for him, but his ever-changing opinions as pointed out on D3, inconsistent with D2 actions, makes him look strange. Would again, want more opinions from him before I judge any further.
Bardiche, I express great wariness due to the fact that in tthis post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg537255.html#msg537255), he doesn't seem to follow up at all to his huhwhat suspicion here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535110.html#msg535110), where he was 'second in rank'. I can understand if the things against huhwhat slowly lost its relevance on D2 due to them being on D1, but for Schezo to suddenly spring from third to first ahead of huhwhat without the latter being mentioned seems like a suspicious bus. I notice that Bardiche has never been present on a crucial bandwagon-changing moment and always seems to make his eventual votes late on the bandwagon, especially on D1 and D2.; answers to this would be nice.
##Vote: Bardiche
VgT I have nothing on, and I'll have to wait on Serp.
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Hourai and Schezo were leading. If I voted Hourai, Hourai would've been lynched instead.
What would I gain from bussing Schezo, again? That I went after the one most vocally criticising the Schezo wagon was a natural switch.
Doll keeps beating around the bush and this evasiveness is not at all townie-like. Answer the damn question.
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No seriously, what does ninja hammer mean, I thought it was taking the last vote at first but the way your implying it, it's something else.
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Alright, looks like it's time to put my money where my mouth is. Firstly, my reason for being suspicious of Affinity is that I have an ability that I believe is a vig as well. However, I'm not using mine on him, because this game is just bastardly enough that I could believe multiple town vig roles in play.
Secondly, because it looks like some folks are trying to lurk through LyLo:
##Whisper: PX
Now let's see if this thing is a Yuyuko doll. Would be appropriate for Youmu to have, after all.
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Sorry to disappoint bu-... did you say Yuyuko?! Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, fly away!!!!!!!!!!
*Role Claims as Mystia Lorelei, the Night Swall Sparrow. AKA Vanilla townie*
Hmmm... I was planning on a big post, but I'll just wait and do that on my next one. Got to prepare for the New Year
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One reread done on Bardiche and Affinity, and I can honestly say I have no suspicion on Affinity being scum. Reading through all his points, he makes clear sense, and the *misfired* kill vig cements his townness.
Bardiche, you would have everything to gain from busing Schezo. If you killed Hourai, who not only ended up town but the doctor, then the Schezo lynch D3 would clearly put you in suspicion as you were the defining tie-breaker. Not to mention that killing Schezo essentially gave you a free ride in D3. In fact, the only one who mentioned you at all was reV, and he said he was going to reread. We never got his results.
@Doll: Please, opinions.
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Serpentarius pulled an Undescribed (yet Fatal) Object from the depths of his coat, and whispered softly into it.
##Whisper: PX
The object rumbled and a layer of dirt shook off. Under it, you could see that it was a doll, with bright pink hair, and a blue Kimono. The doll faced itself towards PX, and opened it's mouth in a puppet fashion. Five large, Pink laser blasts fanned out and spread from the doll's mouth, piercing and blasting PX into the depths of the Shrine.
In the doll's wear from the years, the use of it caused it to crumble into wooden pieces, joints and bits of cloth.
PhoeniX Wrong was Mystia Lorelai, Vanilla Townie.
Votecount has been reset.
With 5 Alive, It takes 3 to Lynch
Town is still in Lylo.
Approximately 42 hours are left in the day.
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Whelp, came into Day 4 expecting to get lynched and lose, but this works.
*shrug* (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQfEmMTLl8Y)
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First Votecount of Day Four
Not Voting: Robotic Doll.S, Serpentarius, Affinity, VgameT, Bardiche
you have 29.5 hours left in the day
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Sorry for not being around. Been busy with work and school. Guess I should read the rest of ya'll now. Also this is a bad fuckin time for everyone to have the same avatar, god damn
Doll: Really hasn't done much of anything. Was a little oversensitive early D1 when people got on him about his jokevotes, but after that didn't contribue anything for the first 2 days. This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535055.html#msg535055) is kind of weird because Hourai actually did turn out to be a power role. Saying he would have voted Schezo (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg538508.html#msg538508) isn't so good. He did say he felt Schezo was suspicious in D2, but there was no conviction behind it, so being absent at the climax of the day and then saying "no yeah I would have voted the now-confirmed scum, I just didn't at the time" is fishy. Immediately jumping on the Rou wagon also doesn't look good considering his flip, and the early hammer also isn't good. Promising a reread here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg540567.html#msg540567) and then turning around and ending the day early isn't cool, especially considering that reread still hasn't shown up today. How about doing that now? Like, before the day ends?
Affinity: Seems OK. Kind of pops in and out intermittently but his logic is all solid as far as I can tell. His vig power is weird, but I guess we can't really ask him "did you know how your power worked" and expect a trustworthy answer. It's probably safe to say he's not part of the cult (assuming it has more than one member) at least.
Bard: Given that we're in LYLO now's probably a good time to claim. What are you? Also, Affinity makes a pretty valid point; you were all over huh what here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535110.html#msg535110) but you dropped that case after that, never really mentioning him again. What gives?
Serp: Not much to work with given the circumstances. Your reasoning was initially pretty heavily based on the Hourai wagon, though. Rou and PX both flipped town, so does that make me scum? Given that we're in LYLO there has to be another scum player, so who's your pick? I'd like to see your thoughts now that the Hourai wagon's pretty much all dead.
I guess right now my picks for the 2 remaining scum are Doll and either Bard or Serp, leaning a lil' more towards Bard. Doll for 2nd mafia player, Bard for 2nd cult player? I'd like to see posts from all 3 of those guys before I start tossing a vote around, though.
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I never said I didn't have time, I said I was late. By three hours too (or was it more or less then that....).
Also, just a feeling but I suspect Bardiche to maybe be the cult leader but I'm just basing it off his role reveal in the beginning, so whatever. *shrug*
Anyway, I don't really have the will look closely at the posts today, sigh....My avatar ;.;
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While I understand that Bard had to choose between the Hourai and the Schezo wagon at the end of D2, none of the posts between the one where you suspected huhwhat and the end post really addressed that ever again, even when huhwhat posted his response. Since it was about D1 actions, it could have been a dead point by then, but still. As for hammering, superficial townie credit isn't out of possibility, since Rou could have easily been implicated that way, leading to a dead D3. This combined with the fact that you were nowhere and inactive on the D1 wagon (e.g huhwhat) and that you had rather unoriginal reasons you had for voting Schezo on D2 make you a little suspicious than everyone else except Doll, especially since in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg535110.html#msg535110) all you had to say about him was that 'his OMGUS didn't look good, placing him on the backburner.
Of course, this isn't anything in comparison with Doll's conduct throughout the game. His vote was nowhere for D1 and D2, just happened to hammer Roukanken D3, and never really did do that reread he promised. The fact that this is LyLO makes me wary about lynching him, but I guess there isn't much better to do than that, but yeah, he needs to go due to him being the only one without some redeemable grace here. Serp vigging PX is a decidedly town play since scum would probably have wanted him as an easy target; and VgT has good points on a superficial reread despite being bad by votecounts alone. So....
##Vote: Doll
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Doll: cool, dude. Might want to get that reread done in the next ~20 hours (or before you get lynched) if you're not scum. Also, what about Bard's PR makes you think cult over mafia?
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I guess nobody cares about the game at this point?
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Alright, here goes nothing. Either the scumteam is VgameT and Doll, or else Schezo was being bussed. And if scum's strategy was to bus Schezo, that makes VgameT's place on the Hourai wagon less damning. So, Doll it is.
##Vote: Doll
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I've stopped caring, I admit, the moment people began to derp about with their OMG BARD IS CULTMASTER, or OMG BARD IS BUSSING EVEN THOUGH HE COULD'VE LYNCHED SOMEONE ELSE and we'd be in LYLO with Schezo, and still a possibility town'd not lynch him.
Then Doll ninja hammers, goes derpderp and refuses to answer and Affinity is being very uncharacteristic in going for the OBVDerp.
In fact, I'd call that scummy. I'm not used to Affinity voting so dumbly. ##VOTE: Affinity
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Calling Serp's vig of a lurker is also GNHRNRFGH. Wouldn't it've been a MUCH better use of vigilantism to just. Y'know. Vig the scummiest person around?
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That's precisely what I was doing. Remember that PX was my preferred lynch for yesterday, too. Anyway I'm less convinced that the town was given two vigs after PX's flip, so I'd be willing to hammer Affinity as well, if another vote shows up in the time we have left.
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Schezo flipped mafia, I'm saying you could be cult. I'm working under the assumption that they're opposed to one another (or at least not in contact/don't know each other's player roster.) moreover, if Doll isn't scum, the game is over in about 20 minutes. Why are you sidestepping what people are asking of you? Why not claim?
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EBWOP: that was aimed at Bard.
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How about you full-claim instead of demanding I do so? It's LYLO, after all.
I'm Ranmilia Scarlet, vanilla town.
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I'm only half an hour late :ohdear:
Robotic Doll.S: Affinity, Serpentarius
Affinity: Bardiche
Not voting: Robotic Doll.S, VgameT
Robotic Doll.S Was Lynched. He wasKomachi Onazuka, Mafia Goon
Please send in your night actions if you have them.
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Serpentarius was Killed last night. He was Youmu Kompaku, Town one-shot vig.
With three alive, you need two to agree on a lynch.
Day 5 ends Feb 7th, 3:30 p.m. EST
This is the very last day, give it your best!
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preeeeeetty tempted to just vote bard and call it a day but I guess I'll ask
a) if you were vanilla town why be cagey about your PR
b) seriously, why'd you completely drop your case on huh what
c) what's with this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg544827.html#msg544827), seriously. like, you voted doll for the exact same reason earlier in the day. what the fuck dude. "Affinity voted for a guy for the same reason I did, therefore, I will now vote Affinity instead of the guy." your action makes absolutely no sense, unless you were trying to set up a reason to go after affinity after doll was lynched or something.
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A) What PR. You guys are the ones who want to see more out of my role than there really is. "Oh look Bard's name is made public THIS MUST BE SOMETHING SPECIAL". Not interested in a back and fro of IS BARD BEING HONEST ABOUT HIS ROLE? especially when no one else was required to roleclaim during LYLO.
B) For one, he's dead. For two, I focused on either of the two choices who were gonna be lynched that day. I said this before. I didn't find it worth my efforts to talk about him again later because I was more concerned with other business and my shady feelings of huh what had diminished/I stopped caring.
C) I wanted Doll to respond to my question. Clearly. Since he was just dodging the question before, I voted him in hopes of him answering. Affinity going for such an obvious case just doesn't jive with his usual modus operandi, although I guess I was wrong there now because Doll mysteriously happened to be scum. Um.
Yeah, clearly I was setting up a reason to go after Affinity, this dastardly scheme has been PIERCED and I do not know what to do now that my master plan has been laid bare.
So, why didn't you vote anyone in the last day?
Also, if you're town? Then voting cult would be really retarded.
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So, why didn't you vote anyone in the last day?
I was waiting for responses to my post. Then 2 people voted Doll, who was my preferred lynch. I didn't want to hammer him because I was still waiting for responses.
Also, if you're town? Then voting cult would be really retarded.
ummmm wat
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@Bard: While it is true that I usually go for the not-so-obvious cases, the thing is that Doll did not once vote scum in the entire game, had no opinions (not even one-liners of note), avoided the wagons that really mattered (e.g Bob on D1, Schezo on D2), and happily threw down a solid vote on Roukanken D3 when doing no such thing on previous days, which is really bad.... even for me. He just did not have the eagerness and 'energy' of, say, Hourai, who went after Schezo with gusto even though a number of his premises were flawed.. I don't believe that my meta should prevent me from going after who I think is scummy, and I don't like you misrepping my case to 'easy lynch' when I did provide some reasons for that vote.
Also, are you role-claiming cult? And... what did you hope to get out of Doll with that ninja hammer question? It seemed likely to generate a nulltell.
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You said earlier you wanted to vote me because you suspected I was cult leader, Vgame. That's what I meant. If you think I am cult leader, you should vote Affinity <_<; >_>;
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Bard, do you roleclaim cult leader?
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No, I claimed vanilla town, as per the previous day. My "role" is that I am undeniably Remilia Scarlet. Without a shadow of a doubt. Beyond certainty.
I have no damn clue how this should serve the game in any way.
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Beyond certainty? In a Mafia game? Are you sure?
I would like VgT to roleclaim before I make my vote.
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My name was declared/added to the list at the start of the game, no? I'd say that's undeniable proof that I am miss Scarlet.
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You said earlier you wanted to vote me because you suspected I was cult leader, Vgame. That's what I meant. If you think I am cult leader, you should vote Affinity <_<; >_>;
again, ummmmmmmmm, wat
why
Affinity: Cirno, vanilla town.
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Yeah no seriously, you specifically said it would be stupid for town to vote cult. How do you know this, and why would that be stupid?
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the silence speaks volumes
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Really not much I can think of doing this point. Disregarding roles, I would have to say that my choice for today is pretty much Bard; for his awful D4 and psuedo-chainsaw of Doll, and some slight inconsistencies regarding opinions on huhwhat on D2. Going after Schezo last minute on D2 over Hourai is probably the only thing that's really town about him, but considering the way it wasted D3 with everyone's pursuit for Roukanken, perhaps it's not that unfeasible a bus after all. There wasn't really an explanation as to why Hourai was town in anyway. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,8255.msg537255.html#msg537255)
On the other hand I'm more greatly satisfied by VgT's content and explanations despite being late on the Hourai wagon; e.g the reason why he went for Hourai instead of Schezo is pretty much acceptable, etc. Also, since VgT had made his opinions on others clear on D4, while Bard just prodded Doll for a useless question and after that jumped on me without much fanfare, I suppose, yeah, Bard looks worse.
##Vote: Bard
(Tag Fix)
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There are no inconsistencies on my opinion on huhwhat. If two people are tied and someone needs to tiebreak, I'm not going to mire on about how suspicious huhwhat is and leave my vote on him. That is downright stupid logick.
##VOTE: Affinity
Affinity's participation on D1 has been a vote on Schezo, and then jumping on Bob instead so Bob got lynched. Votes Roukanken in D2 for not spending enough time on Schezo (did you already know he was scum? :)), and tying Roukanken to Schezo rather fiercely.
His claim for going Bob instead of Schezo is laughable, given his very first post chides people for jumping on easy cases without considering how it could be scummy, and yet he takes Bob's newbie mistakes at face value for scummitude.
VgameT is my only other alternative, but Affinity feels weird. Gut >> Logic.
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Bardiche (L-1) Affinity
Affinity (L-1) Bardiche
Not voting: VgameT
There are 24 hours left in the day.
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Yeahhh I pretty much planned on voting Bard from the get-go but I figured I'd give him a chance to make a case and respond to me. Sadly I was not impressed.
if affinity is scum he probably deserves to win more than we do anyways cuz we sucked this game lmfao
##vote: Bardiche
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Yeahhh I pretty much planned on voting Bard from the get-go but I figured I'd give him a chance to make a case and respond to me. Sadly I was not impressed.
if affinity is scum he probably deserves to win more than we do anyways cuz we sucked this game lmfao
##vote: Bardiche
Nope, you lose.
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Bardiche was Lynched. He was Remilia Scarlet - Unhidden Townie
"Wait, seriously?" said VgameT who was Cirno, Vanilla Townie.
"Hey, what happened to that cult thing, anyway?" Said Affinity, who was Sanae Kotiya, Shaky-handed Mafia day-vig.
"It was just me." Said Huh what, dejectedly. "Hourai, the doctor, I figured out on my own, was actually a Hypnotist. Anyone he protected was recruited, unless they were mafia.
"Oh." Said Revelske from nowhere. "Then that means I won, since the cults been dead for a while." he then patted Affinity on the back. "Well, I guess I have a lot to thank you for them."
"Um, right." Affinity replied.
And then everyone, mod included, shuffled their feet back to the Mafia Sign-ups thread.
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Well then.
That was pretty interesting, actually. I found the circumstances regarding my death to be rather amusing considering everything that had happened to me (behind the scenes) over the course of the game.
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I hope I'm allowed to post here...
Anyways, that was a fun thread to watch. I've also partaken in mafia games myself. I've got two questions though: Wheres the signup for the next one, And what classes are what?
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I was the cult leader? W.T.F.
And yes, day 2, I protected Affinity. But seeing as how he was already mafia... I died that night anyway since I couldn't protect myself.
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huh what, when I accidentally recruited you, were you aware that it was me who did it?
Heh, sorry about that.
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There was no Aya you bastard mod ;_;
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I win. o/
So is there even anything special about the cult? Aside from simply being the 3rd faction? And Hourai is the cult leader? And he can recruit people? What?
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@ Hourai: The flavor didn't tell me who the recruiter was, but my main two guesses were a player who could read the cult quicktopic but not respond, or a doc who unknowingly recruited their targets, due to the flavor. It eventually became evident it was the latter, so I pretty much figured out it was you after your flip (plus the flavor hinted towards Reisen anyway).
I had actually guessed Affinity was your N2 target and was pretty much calling him as scum because of that, but I chose not to attempt to press him (actually, I'm fairly sure I shilled him D3 in hopes that he would be less likely to NK me, as I was the only one who could work for my win condition at that point) due to a misconception about my role - it was not until after I already died that the mod told me the game would continue if all scum were lynched. I had assumed that killing all scum would result in me getting endgamed.
... Though, I kind of doubt I would have gotten him lynched if I had tried.
Also, I was really surprised by Doll's flip. I had expected VgT to be the third scum.
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See? Gut > logic. Told you Affinity was being uncharacteristic by taking easy cases.
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Cult leader who doesn't know he's cult leader. :V
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See? Gut > logic. Told you Affinity was being uncharacteristic by taking easy cases.
I'm holding you to that the next time I use FPMH.
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@hw
I see.
Also, I would like to say,
LOOK AT THE NEW GUY, TUNNELING IN ON SCUM WHILE GETTING NIGHTKILLED BEFORE HE DID TOO MUCH DAMAGE TO TOWN WHILE BEING TOWN. :smug:
And,
Schezo=mafia
Doll=mafia
It's the derpshield, baby. :smug:
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Seriously though, this game was really bastardized to scum favor. Even though I took the train to derptown day one and expected to die, we got a random dayvig and daytime contact.
I wonder though if Hourai had more cultists, would they have been able to contact each other? So recruited cult could contact but Hourai didn't know about their contacts or anything?
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If Hourai had recruited somebody else, then they would have been given access to the cult QT.
But he didn't, so it was pretty much just me talking to myself (and Zakeri, post-death).
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I was sure VgT was the final scum when he kept hounding Bard about pointing out that town hunting for cult in 3P LYLO was dumb. Hunting for cult in 3P LYLO is stupid because it means you're not hunting for scum! A town-cultist or town-cult-leader ending may or may not result in a victory for that townie (whether or not they win as a townie is another matter entirely, but a win's a win), but a town-scum ending will result in a loss for that townie, and an uncertain thing is always preferable to a guaranteed loss. I have no idea how VgT missed this when he had been a clear thinker throughout the rest of the game (from what I had seen, at least). Did you think it was a 2-scum game, and if so, what explanation were you prepared to offer for Serp's death?
reVelske: I have come to understand that you hail from a different demographic, and I'm willing to grant you a small pass because it's your first game here, but there's an old adage that applies rather well to Mafia: When in Rome, do as the Romans do. Your Day 1 on the whole and responses to anything anyone ever asked about regarding your Day 1 were seriously uncool, and it made me less want to see you lynched as it did not want to see you play in the same game as me. "This is my playstyle" is not a valid excuse for actively anti-town play; otherwise people could just vote with an RNG and claim "this is my playstyle!" and it would be the easiest thing in the world for scum to hide behind. I am all for succinctness on Day 1 (more so than most of the people here, in fact! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,2250.0.html)), but producing absolutely nothing? C'mon, man. Kudos for getting better as the game went on, though.
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AFFINITY, SUPER-BUSSER, STRIKES AGAIN.
Points for gutsy play on that part, Aff. But yeah, I think I need a break from these games until I learn to take them less seriously. I did hella bad this time round and nearly had a D3 public braekdown again. >_>
Kilga: This is reV's second game, I'm fairly sure. He was in JK9.
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oic
Well, point still stands on the whole. I'm still willing to offer the leeway for new players because there's been so many of them recently anyway.
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Seriously though, this game was really bastardized to scum favor.
Yeah, town basically got only 1 PR that didn't show up till midgame. Also, no cop? :<
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Oh, something I never got.
If Bard was supposedly the cult leader, why would he have chosen to recruit me? He thought I was scum, so that honestly doesn't make very much sense, and I never really got why people were accusing him of cult-leading because of this.
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Scum thread (Boring): http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/LsPUPccdtwg
Cult Thread (Not as boring): http://www.quicktopic.com/45/H/CKbXq7GA2TMK
Role discussion:
Reisen Udongein Inaba - Hypnotist (Doctor/Unknowing Clan Recruiter)
Tewi Inaba - Clan Hater (Wins only when it?s impossible for the Clan to win)
Remilia Scarlet - Unmistakable Identity (Same Role as last game)
Youmu Konpaku - Unknown One Shot Vig (Will hint that they may sumbit the name of one person they think is scum during the game) (Yuyuko Doll Reference)
Mystia-Hatate - Townies
Sanae - Maggie's Gun (In addition to NightKill, Has one Day Kill that can be used to target any player. The Next person who posts is killed instead.)
Komachi and Iku - Goons
I actually didn't throw in a whole lot of roles because I was too worried about it becoming too unbalenced. Plus, I couldn't really think of any good roles to add that wouldn't end up just inside jokes that I could share with nobody. I stole Shaky-handed Vig from some other forum (Which is why it's called Maggie's Gun.) It's designed to more often than not kill someone who's talkitive and not lurking, so even though I intended it to be Anti-mafia, the role itself still helps them more often than not.
You are Reisen Udon-noodle Inaba ? Townie Doctor. You may claim it?s only tuna and kombu, but I know your game, sis.
Using your Lunatic Red Eyes, you can cause people to believe they are completely invincible from nightkills. Belief is a powerful thing, even more so in Gensokyo. Whoever you target for the night, will not be nightkilled that night. Unfortunately, there are limits on your hypnotism. First, it only works once. You may not target the same person more than once, and a second attempt to protect someone will not work. Second, it doesn?t work looking in the mirror. You may not protect yourself under any circumstance. Finally, there may be people out there who are immune to your hypnotism, although they are very few.
You are town. You win when all opposing faction are exterminated.
I made these conditions unabashedly hoping that whoever got the role would target as many townies as they possible could. Unfortunately, before Hourai died, the only targets were Huh what, and Affinity (Affinity didn't convert because he was mafia.)
Suddenly, Something Amazing Happened!
You saw a deep, red light, and suddenly the image of a white rabbit formed! Its shinning glow was spectacular. You could almost feel the warmth radiating from the image, and somehow you knew nothing could hurt you that night.
Now that it is morning, however, that light has disappeared, and you ache to feel it again. You decided to keep a little shrine of the white rabbit in your room. You know no one else will think you?re sane if they found out, unless they too were chosen by the white rabbit. You decided to only speak with them.
Your alignment has been changed. You are now a Cultist. You win when all opposing factions are destroyed and the town?s members are equal to or less than your own numbers.
Huh what was able to tell almost immediately that he was recruited by a Hypnotist role just from this. To be fair, I might have been transparent with the "Nothing could hurt you" part.
You are Tewi Inaba ? Cult Destroyer. Just your luck, huh?
You know there?s a cult out there. You hear them all the time mumbling, and worshiping you. You of all people. The whole reason why you reserve your good luck is because few others deserve it, and now you?ve got these folks following you everywhere. You?re only goal in this game is to rid the shrine of these ?Followers of the White Rabbit.?
You are Anti-Cult. You win when the Cult can no longer achieve it?s own win condition. This win condition does not end the game. Once you have won, you will be notified, but not taken out of the game. As long as you are alive, you count towards the Town?s win condition.
Needless to say, ReVelske was immune to recruitment as well. Also, he technically wasn't a pro-town role, but he also wasn't a direct target for town either.
You are Remilia Scarlet ? Townie Pretends She?s Wearing a Backpack ? At least that?s what it looks like when you hold your hands like that.
You are the Great and Wonderful Remilia Scarlet. Absolutely no one can mistake your beauty ? at least not with serious help from a paper bag. Or maybe by making their home within the confines of the underside of a large rock. Even then, if you tried to hide your identity, the Goddesses of the shrine will just tell everyone anyway since they?re still bitter over having to remake tonight?s dinner simply because they forgot to not put any garlic in it.
You are town. You win when all opposing faction are exterminated.
Exact same role and alignment as the first Moriya Shrine game. Twis hoping I would get some mindscrew out of this, and it kind of looks like it worked in the last day.
You are Youmu Kompaku ? Half Townie, Half Human, Half Spirit, Half Baked. You were almost fully baked, but luckily Lady Yuyuko realized her mistake when the potatoes didn?t start trimming the bushes.
You are a Vanilla Townie. You have no speci-wait a minute here. What?s this thing? It looks really cute. You pick it up without even hesitating. What?s the tag say? Anything? ?Whisper the name of someone you don?t like?? What could that possibly mean? Well whatever. Let?s just hurry up so we can start the game. You can activate this ability, whatever is should be, by using the command ?##Whisper: [Player Name]? at any time during the day or night, in PM or in Thread.
You are town. You win when all opposing faction are exterminated.
Both Neo Serela, and Serpentarius knew this was a Vig role. Serela even tried to use it just before Serp replaced in to kill Rou.
You are Sanae Kotiya ? Goddess of the Wind. Some may say you are going mad with the power of a goddess. They?re mistaken however. You?re actually quite happy with it.
In addition to the Scum Night kill, you are also able to activate a single daykill. You may use your new, yet everyday practiced ability of the Divinity within your soul to kill anyone of your choosing. You may activate your great and awesome power by using the command, in thread ?##Kill: [Target Player]?. This ability will be disabled in Lylo, and attempting to use it then will result in a spanking, young lady.
Like I said above, I stole this role from another forum, but it never got used in any of the games it appeared in (One due to forum shifting, and the inability to continue, and another due to anti-bastard modding.) so I just once wanted to see it play out. In the second game, this role was used by a pair of caught scum. One used it on an Obv town, and the other posted right after to high-five. It would have been hilarious if the back up mod had let it go through like it was suppose to. Also, imagine if Affinity had made a typo in the same post and corrected it.
I said this would be a role light game, but I still tried to take the bastard mod status and have fun with it.
Also, Hatate Himekaido is indeed a regular vanilla townie, no matter what I said about your win condition. :D
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Yeah, town basically got only 1 PR that didn't show up till midgame. Also, no cop? :<
Yes who was the noobscum that decided Pesco was worth N1 NK? Which of you dumbasses thought I was Satori? :V
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Oh yeah, the other thing I meant to mention. Shame on everyone that was around for the first use of the Remilia role for not saying anything about it. It may have worked differently, but it would have at least quelled questions about why the name was there.
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I don't think we can access the first Moriya Shrine game to reread.
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That doesn't mean no one could have explained what it was before! <_<
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Hourai is not the best of players and not likely to be listened to by anyone.
And then Schezo was lynched. :smug:
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Is the smugness really necessary? You may have been right, but a lot of the jumps on the Schezo wagon were not based on your points and instead from original research, and you had also made yourself look rather scummy as well (or at least, scummy enough to get 3 townies voting for you).
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Yeah, it's really not deserved at all.
So let me get this straight, in my pursuit of scum, I made myself look scummy. Which then made other towns look scummy when I flipped. :colonveeplusalpha:
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Yes, but only because your pursuit of scum was just off in logic and made people want to fall on you.
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Ow. Rough setup. Kudos to Affinity for pulling it off, though, despite two newish partners. In a setup without cops, superbussing is quite powerful.
Anyway, I'm glad Pesco grabbed me to replace in here. It reminded me that I've got a game on the way too, so I've been working on my own setup.
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@Kilga; I actually planned to claim Cult Leader at some point, but when it was so ill received that you SHOULD NOT HUNT THIRD PARTIES AT LYLO, I figured I would just be honest.
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Your Day 1 on the whole and responses to anything anyone ever asked about regarding your Day 1 were seriously uncool, and it made me less want to see you lynched as it did not want to see you play in the same game as me. "This is my playstyle" is not a valid excuse for actively anti-town play
Again, it's not so much a flat-out refusal to contribute on day one, it's more of a case of refusal to make a big deal out of minor points simply for the sake of argument/getting things moving, it has nothing to do with where I play and who I play with. I DO contribute when there are points I find interesting, and TBH, I WOULD'VE said something about all the attacks on Bob if it wasn't the damn weekend. Whereas normally people get through day one by questioning every little detail, I usually go through by being a jerk and watching people's reactions. If people honestly take such great offense over my choice of playstyle, then I'm more than happy to not participate from now on, I have no intention to make this unenjoyable for others.
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Whooops ლ(╹◡╹ლ)
Kilga: Sorry dude, I have absolutely no idea how a cult is supposed to work. I didn't put more thought into it than "anti-town units must be lynched for town victory." Your point about the Serp nightkill is completely valid, but unfortunately it didn't occur to me :X The idea of there being a single cult member also did not really occur to me, nor did the idea of the doctor being a recruiter. I just kind of rolled along with me 2/2 theory, and nobody said anything to me about it, so it stuck in my mind. Bard making points about the cult made me think he knew something I didn't, and his vanilla town roleclaim combined with him completely ignoring my repeated requests to explain what he was talking about made me vote him. He just felt super evasive to me. I didn't suspect Affinity at all, so well played him :>
I agree that the setup was harsh, though. Mafia getting a doublekill power combined with a town role unwittingly creating a third faction, and the only thing the town has to combat that is a vig. I've never seen a town vig actually hit scum, so :X I guess we were a step away from winning, though, so whatever. My fault for being a fool!
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Dammit, my goal was just to be alive on the last day. Oh well, at least I got pretty damn far. Being a vanilla townie is boring >.<
Good game guys. Superbus Affinity again! I was just waiting for the last day to end....
I still have yet to be nightkilled....
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Setup was unquestionably in scum's favour, yes.
Typically when people don't roleclaim, it means they're afraid scum might discover their (lack of actual) power. It should never be indicative of scummitude because while it's explicable from both sides.
In my case I very much doubted people'd buy Remilia was a vanilla role and hey look, people doubted it.
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It wasn't a vanilla role.
The role was me telling everybody it was you :]
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...
So basically it was a role that revealed nothing, but intended to stir up chaos?
Devious. Scum had it good this game.
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Bard: yeah, you were pretty much in for some trouble no matter how you handled your role. sux
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Well, this was an interesting game but I'm going to be calling it my last for a long while.
I performed very badly, giving few explanations and even Hourai performed better then me (Although not to a positive light) I think. I couldn't find it in myself accuse people because I hate fake accusations and I knew who the scum were :P
Also, really, what's does ninja hammer mean Bard?
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Pretty sure he was just asking why you came out of nowhere and ended the day early. You had voted Rou earlier, but that's different from hammering someone, and hammering with no real justification rubbed people the wrong way.
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Bard seems indebted to the cult of the white rabbit now.
Yes, scum had it good this game. The only thing town had was a one-shot dayvig; against a doctor and scum who could thin their numbers every night and scum who could dayvig the townies. It's pretty much quite miraculous to end up with a two town - one scum thing on the last day; it's as if town was a fodder for cult. Cult, if formed, could have been a threat due to the information they had (see huhwhat), but sadly that was not the case (I had no idea what to do if Bard was the cult leader). The inexperience of my partners did balance things a bit, I suppose, but yeah. As for my play, I think it was so-so due to a bad D1; Bard got a little of it on his final post, but sadly it was too little too late. I still think the point Schezo raised should have been given greater consideration by town as a reason to jump wagons, but perhaps I overestimated its power (since it was my point).
@Hourai: Sorry for being slightly rude in the quicktopic... But despite what I've said in the quicktopic, I think your constant questioning had a seed of what Mafia townie play is all about and would be so if the reasons weren't so fragmented. You were right that passive play is probably scum play, but that's not enough to convince. Youu are on the right track though; if I were town, i would have thought that you were town too.
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As for other players, reV played extremely well on D3 (which is why I NK'ed) despite it being a pretty much wasted day, but on D2 he was sort of a distraction. D1 was also a rather important one this game so I think he shouldn't have written it off as not worth reading. Doll was a good survivor with token presence that town had no idea how to deal with; but having some opinions would have been cool especially as late as D4. Schezo, never jump on a easy bandwagon in middle position without a good reason, since it's pretty much the ticket to hell in these games. VgT had the best reasons for the wrong wagons; too bad the drive pretty much died out by the last day, and Bard should have been pressing me more since D4...I find that PX is getting steadily better too from the previous games... that's about it. Good game everyone.
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Eh, also, huhwhat, your deductions in that quicktopic were pro.
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I can't tell if that was sarcastic or not.
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huhwhat is the new QT-Donut :V
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Oh, Pesco, before I forget
and so I can increase the ratio of finished mafia games I posted last in.
You are Hatate Himekaido - Inexperienced Game Spoiler
Aya has been known to partake in these games for the soul porpoise of testing her ability to root out the scoop in anything. Ability to catch mafia in the act is translated into the ability to expose lies, so it's your goal for the duration of this game to capture as many mafiosi as possible.
You are a Spoiler. You win when you manage to cause the lynch of more Mafiosi than Aya Shameimaru.
BUNBUNMARU SECRET REPORT: AFFINITY, SCHEZO, AND ROBOTIC DOLL.S REVEALED AS MAFIA IN MORIYA SHRINE'S LATEST GAME.
Hatate ripped the newspaper apart. It was right there on the front page, probably just to mock her.
"Dammit! That shouldn't even count! You weren't even in this game!"