Maidens of the Kaleidoscope

~Beyond the Border~ => Rumia's Party Games => Mystia's Stored Games => Topic started by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 18, 2014, 11:46:21 AM

Title: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 18, 2014, 11:46:21 AM
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/Series_Title.png)
The time had come. Once again, the students of Hakoniwa Academy were to be thrust into a cruel and unforgiving war. However, this time, the atmosphere was different. No longer could any of the students afford to be as carefree as they had been up to this point. This battle had something important on the line, something far more valuable than their very lives.
The fourth Weekly Shonen Jump Popularity Poll had begun.

RULES
0) Whatever the mod says goes. In addition, these rules may be changed at any time.
1) You may not directly quote any communications with the moderator. Paraphrasing is allowed, but run it by the moderator first if you feel that it is too similar to the original content.
2) Play to win and have fun.
3) Days will last for 72 hours. Nights will last for 24.
4) Being prodded 3 times is grounds for a modkill. The first prod will be given after 24 hours of inactivity. Each prod you receive will reduce the amount of time you have before you receive another prod by 6 hours.
5) Failure to follow the rules or any given instructions is grounds for a modkill.
6) Receiving a modkill results in your playerslot losing, regardless of anything and everything else that occurs during the game.
7) Use ##Vote: <Name> to vote. Minor variations will be accepted.
8) Use ##Unvote to unvote. Minor variations will be accepted.
9) Failure to reach a majority will result in no lynch occurring.
10) You may not talk during twilight. Twilight is the time between the hammer and the moderator's flip.
11) You may not talk during the night.
12) You may not speak to anyone else about the game through private or public methods of communication unless you have a role that facilitates such an activity.
13) You may not edit your posts. Use edits by way of post if you must.
14) You may no-lynch TWICE throughout the game. Any further no-lynches will result in a universal loss.
15) Should a situation arise where no faction is able to win, the result will be a universal loss.
16) You may make one post that does not contain any game related information after dying within 24 hours of your death. This is the only exception that will allow you to talk at night. This is the only exception that will allow you to talk while dead.

Absolutely Fabulous:
3) Sky Paladin
7) Shadoweh
13) Bardiche

Totally Unpopular:
0. Dormio - Kamome Tsurubami, The One Closest to being the Main Character(Action-Immune Serial-Killing Paranoid Gun Owner) left the game Night 0!
10) CF7 - Mukae Emukae, Rainbow Rose Transfer Student(Jack of all Kills) was evicted from the game Day 1!
4) Dr Rawr - Medaka Kurokami, Little Princess(Abnormal Backup) was forcibly removed from the game Night 1!
6) NekoNekoRex - Hitomi Hitoyoshi, MILF(Neighbour) was forcibly removed from the game Night 3!
5) Zakeri - Youka Naze, Black-White(Minus Backup) was evicted from the game Day 4!
11) SB - Misogi Kumagawa, Defective Product(Falsifier) was forcibly removed from the game Night 4!
9) ActionDan - Kiruko Tachiarai, Sleeping Lazy(Lethargy) was forcibly removed from the game Night 5!
8) Sacchi Hikaru - Hansode Shiranui, Food Enthusiast(Motivator) was forcibly removed from the game Night 5!
12) BT - Tokemichi Choujabaru, The Judge(Untargetable) was evicted from the game Day 6!
1) Conqueror - Najimi Ajimu, Anshin'in(Hated Dreaming God) was forcibly removed from the game Night 6!

Modkilled:
14) O4rfish - D2
2) Serela - D5

Quote from: Sample Role PM
Welcome, Dormio, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Kamome Tsurubami, The One Closest to being the Main Character(Action-Immune Serial-Killing Paranoid Gun Owner)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Kamome_Tsurubami.png)
You, the Dark Hero, deserve to be the main character instead of that spineless Shonen Jump fanatic. However, as much as you would like to demonstrate how deserving you are of the title 「Main Character」, this popularity poll is not the way to do it. You don't want to be associated with an immature brand like Shonen Jump after all. You'll just let the others fight out this particular battle. There's always next time, after all.

As the one closest to being the main character, you obviously hold several powers in addition to your ability to post in thread and vote:
  • Combat Expert (General): You have the ability to recognize and counter any attack before it even begins and possess inhuman reaction speed to compliment this ability. Naturally, this proves to be exceptionally useful in combat. Your expertise will allow you to get the upper hand on anyone that would attempt to target you and kill them. In addition to this, you may make your very own attempt to kill a player of your choice every night.
  • Kamome System (Abnormality/Minus/Style): The Kamome System is what makes you the strongest student within all of Hakoniwa Academy. Formed by combining your Abnormality 「Spinning Angler」, Minus 「Octopus」, and Style 「Provocations User」, the Kamome System allows you stop anyone in their tracks. The Kamome System will allow you to prevent any and all actions that target you during both the day and night phase from taking effect.

You win when every other player has been eliminated or nothing can prevent this from happening. Best of luck.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 18, 2014, 11:46:32 AM
Day 1 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1076912.html#msg1076912)
Night 1 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077918.html#msg1077918)
Day 2 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078103.html#msg1078103)
Night 2 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079123.html#msg1079123)
Day 3 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079129.html#msg1079129)
Night 3 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079132.html#msg1079132)
Day 4 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079436.html#msg1079436)
Night 4 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1080094.html#msg1080094)
Day 5 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080297.html#msg1080297)
Night 5 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080513.html#msg1080513)
Day 6 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080678.html#msg1080678)
Night 6 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081589.html#msg1081589)
Day 7 begins (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081804.html#msg1081804)
Day 7 ends (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1082190.html#msg1082190)
Winners (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1082191.html#msg1082191)
Quicktopics (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1082192.html#msg1082192)
Role PMs: Town (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1082193.html#msg1082193)
Role PMs: Scum (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1082194.html#msg1082194)
Night Actions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1082195.html#msg1082195)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 18, 2014, 11:50:17 AM
「I have to go?」
「I suppose I never had a chance at winning to begin with anyway...」
SB - Misogi Kumagawa, Defective Product(Falsifier) was forcibly removed from the game Night 4!
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Misogi_Kumagawa.jpg)
Quote
All Fiction (Minus): Your minus, All Fiction, allows you to deny the existence of any parts of reality that inconvenience you. This is great, since that pesky "Dead" status tends to appear on you more than most others. You may message the moderator to use your minus ONCE (1) during a day phase to prevent a lynch from having ever occurred. You must submit this action before the lynch actually occurs. Alternatively, you may use your minus during the night to prevent a player of your choice from acting or being acted upon. You may not use your minus twice during a single day/night phase.

The fifth day of the popularity contest has begun!

"Oh my, where am I this time?"

Votecount
Conqueror (0):
Serela (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Sacchi Hikaru (0):
ActionDan (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: Everybody

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

You have ~72 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140321T23&p0=240&msg=Day+5)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 18, 2014, 01:41:47 PM
From where I stand;

Conqueror - strong town read
Serela - light town read, probably conf town because I think there was a CF7, Zak, and Bard vote at some point on day 1 (and Bard is my scum pick so...)
Sky Paladin - probably town right?
Shadoweh - confirmed town
Sacchi Hikaru - confirmed town by Shadoweh
ActionDan - light town read
BT - light town read but probably town because of bus attempt by Zak, primary lyncher of CF7
Bardiche - scummy

I'll need to ISO Bard tomorrow because I am out of time tonight.  I need to clear up some things. 
My initial scum read on Bard is because 1:  Did not vote for CF7, 2: Bought my vanilla town claim without specific reason.  Shadoweh clarified her reasoning.  Only scum would otherwise know for sure I'm telling the truth.  3 - IIRC was pushing for a Dan lynch yesterday over Zak.  4 - Was neighbours with NNR. 

Anyway it's just my feeling, I didn't ISO Bard yet. Certainly I thought Conqueror was scum but when I ISOd him saw I was painfully wrong.  We have to flips now though so we can make some good associative reads. 

I assume Shadoweh will have some result to share from last night, fingers crossed. 
I assume SB was killed purely because with only one scum left (I hope), he was a functional cop/doc-in-one. 

I recieved an upgrade last night.  I won't reveal the source or the nature of the upgrade at this stage because I want to sleep on it.  If any of our super towns (Shadoweh, Hikari) ask though I will clarify. 

Anyway I want to stress this is just my thoughts and I am going from memory and there was 30+ pages holy crap.  If I got a point wrong, I'm sorry, I just didn't cross check it.  I'll do a more comprehensive job when I wake up.  I just had thirty elderly men with bamboo sticks smashing me on the head for an hour and a half and I'm not my sharpest right now. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Serela on March 18, 2014, 01:44:35 PM
oh, cool

Shadoweh do you have any super cool night results to tell us? Also, who did you target last night Sacchi?

I didn't reread yet and I have work soon but I guess my priorities are Dan>Sacchi???>Bard. Everyone else is town, so. :V Even Bard is only on there in the same state I put him in yesterday, aka "I'd PoE him in 3p LyLo but that's about it".

When you consider we still have TWO MISLYNCHES before we're in lylo, and that's even if there's an extra kill for some strange reason (like Sacchi turning SkyPal into a serial killer!?), we're in a pretty great spot right now.

Cut by 'kay, Sacchi did target SkyPal, and huh, well, Bard voting me intensely d1 was only to be expected and he's not the only town who thought CF7 wasn't scum, but that's not a bad reason to think he's scum. I think I'd still go for powerlurk!Dan first, but maybe Bard should get shifted ahead of nullread Sacchi.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Serela on March 18, 2014, 01:45:48 PM
if bard flips scum too my "this play feels legit" general feelings are garbage and should be ignored in the future unless they have more specific reasons.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: ActionDan on March 18, 2014, 01:48:04 PM
Bard ---> Serela ----> ???
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: ActionDan on March 18, 2014, 01:48:44 PM
Serela and bard should claim if they haven't
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Serela on March 18, 2014, 01:50:44 PM
Actually this feels like it probably softconfirms Sacchi as town since we can rest fairly sure they targetted SkyPal. Oh, right, plus Shadoweh knows their role is true, I forgot that part.

So that puts it between Dan and Bard. I see Dan feels about the same with all the confirmtowns around. :V

Cuts:Maybe I should just go ahead and vote Bard if all these people are coming in gunning for his lynch. We have the mislynches to go around even if a "disaster" like an extra kill occurs and it's hard to imagine anyone other than Dan (or maybe me? but I really doubt it) getting lynched tomorrow.

More Cuts:I've claimed day voteblocker (abnormality) and Bard claimed NNR's neighbor and jailkeeper.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Serela on March 18, 2014, 01:51:30 PM
I should probably say obvtown and not confirmtown, since we don't have actual confirmtowns
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: ActionDan on March 18, 2014, 01:58:08 PM
##vote bard
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: ActionDan on March 18, 2014, 02:02:15 PM
Modify me next sacchi
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Serela on March 18, 2014, 02:03:23 PM
@Dormio: If someone's vote was blocked for the duration of the day phase, would that affect the amount of votes required to lynch?

It didn't affect it during the kingmaker day so I guess dormio is probably restricted to "no"
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 18, 2014, 02:15:50 PM
Quote
Actually this feels like it probably softconfirms Sacchi as town since we can rest fairly sure they targetted SkyPal

I didn't specifically say it was Sacchi, and you'll note I've said Sacchi was confirmed town by Shadoweh.  I may have been upgraded by Conqueror Dreaming God luls. 

Of course, Hikari and the person they targeted will know for sure. 

I'm not voting yet because I want to do an ISO.  Don't just sheep before a case is made!  Please do your own reading as well.  I'm asleep for eight hours, there's plenty of time for you to come up with something better. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 18, 2014, 02:20:19 PM
@Dormio: If someone's vote was blocked for the duration of the day phase, would that affect the amount of votes required to lynch?
No.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Shadoweh on March 18, 2014, 02:57:54 PM
Bard didn't claim JK, Serela, the dead person just flipped JK :V

Having reread and thought about it, I would put BT at a higher level then anyone else seeing as the only 'crime' I would pin against him is 'Made sure CF7 and Zakeri were lynched'. Dan was pushing pretty hard for Zak to be lynched yesterday too.

Silly apologetic mafians. You're suposed to give the townies headaches, don't apologize!
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Shadoweh on March 18, 2014, 02:59:32 PM
Cuts:Maybe I should just go ahead and vote Bard if all these people are coming in gunning for his lynch. We have the mislynches to go around even if a "disaster" like an extra kill occurs and it's hard to imagine anyone other than Dan (or maybe me? but I really doubt it) getting lynched tomorrow.
Why do you say these things. -_- This is also what you said about Oarfish. Have you ever considered thinking before lynching?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Bardiche on March 18, 2014, 03:00:57 PM
Serela, can you clarify where I claimed to be a gaoler?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: BT on March 18, 2014, 03:04:44 PM
##Vote Bardiche

Should habe told SB to crumb his targets in advance based on PM info or somesuch. I'll run over some select interactions when I'm home.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: ActionDan on March 18, 2014, 04:22:47 PM
I don't any claims
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Bardiche on March 18, 2014, 05:49:57 PM
Why do you say these things. -_- This is also what you said about Oarfish. Have you ever considered thinking before lynching?

Remember when Dormio fakeclaimed a restriction after dragging everyone into a QT and Serela was all, "Well I don't even want to think about Dormio scum"? Then I pointed out a flaw in his claim and everybody agreed Dormio should have rightfully won.

I worked hard to pull Town's head out of its arse there and get them to reconsider. When everyone was all, "Let's lynch Sky Pal!" I pointed out that it makes no sense for Scum to claim Vanilla Town and argued hard alongside you, Shadoweh, to get Town to pull its head out of its arse. Now I didn't give any reason. Well, okay. To be fair, scum has been doing nonsensical shit anyway so I would no longer be surprised if Sky Pal is scum claiming VT.

In any case, I'm not feeling like pulling town's head out of its arse again.

I'm Zenkichi Hitoyoshi, Town Neighbour to my mother, and Town Conditional Tracker. Night 1 I tracked Shadoweh, and Shadoweh did not commit the kill. I later decided she was definitely Town due to my result on account of not having targeted anyone, not including herself. My other attempt was roleblocked. My role condition prevented the other use(s). Flavour-wise I have the ability to see through people's eyes so I can see who they visit, if anyone.

Once you lynch me, consider whether Dan's lurking and coasting deserves as much as a Town pass as it currently does. Zakeri claimed his role truthfully (seemingly) and CF7 just refused to play; I'm inclined to think Sky Paladin also claimed his role truthfully and that he committed the kill while Zak was actually using O4rfish's role. Scumplay has been five flavours of retarded. Serela's role PM is probably green but Serela's still scum.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: BT on March 18, 2014, 06:27:04 PM
Why did you target Shadoweh on N1 and who did you attempt to target on N2?

What's stopping you from claiming your condition?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: BT on March 18, 2014, 06:27:38 PM
Did you tell any of this to NNR? Did NNR crumb this in the thread anywhere?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 18, 2014, 06:37:49 PM
Serela is scum. I'll make a bigger post on this later. But first, does anyone seriously think SB wouldn't have blocked Bardiche last night?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Bardiche on March 18, 2014, 06:44:23 PM
Why did you target Shadoweh on N1 and who did you attempt to target on N2?

What's stopping you from claiming your condition?

Because I find Shadoweh impossible to read, I posted this. Are you SERIOUSLY asking me who I attempted to target on N2? N3 I attempted to target Sky Paladin because claiming VT is an easy test when you can Track. What's stopping me from claiming my condition is that I'm specifically not allowed to in my role. Why did you think I suspected SkyPal could be a townie that wasn't allowed to claim his role?

Did you tell any of this to NNR? Did NNR crumb this in the thread anywhere?

Yes, after he died. Fuck telling an unconfirmed party that I'm an investigation power role.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 18, 2014, 06:54:59 PM
Posting this mostly from memory first just to get it out there.

The issue of what the fuck happened with D1 has been bothering me all game. Why didn't CF7 claim when he was at L-1? There was literally no reason for him not to, given we know that at least one person was on the opposing wagon. If Bardiche was scum, that leaves two scumbuddies on the countering wagon, and he just gives up? No. The answer is that the competing wagon was his scumbuddy and he doesn't want to get Serela lynched because there's the chance that he'll also get lynched immediately the next day after getting counterclaimed. Suddenly everything makes sense. Serela's reluctant jump onto CF7, CF7's bad jump onto Serela, Zak's switch from Serela to CF7 even though Zak has been known to bus and doesn't get off his scumbuddies that easily (possibly he saw the number of people defending CF7 and thought Serela would be a bigger target by the end of the day), Zak's confirmation bias case on Serela, Serela defending Zak hard yesterday because with him dead SB would certainly have to die, Serela's super hard push no holds barred on Sky_Paladin D2 which was a mirror of him pushing NNR D2 in FF9 Mafia. And to top all that off, his scumpicks today are horrible. FFS he's still pushing Sacchi as a possible lynch. Funny that his three possible lynch choices match up with the fact that he's stated town has 2 mislynches left.

##Vote: Serela

Will make a bigger case with quotes, but yeah. Serela is the scum.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 18, 2014, 06:58:35 PM
And I repeat, we're not lynching Bard on the grounds that I'm willing to bet real money that SB jailkept Bardiche last night.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: BT on March 18, 2014, 06:59:58 PM
rofl

##Unvote

Rereading.

As for who SB's target was, he was equally likely to hit Serela. That's kind of a bad coincidence.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 18, 2014, 07:05:08 PM
It's unfortunate that he didn't crumb but I think Bardiche would have been the higher priority target given that he was many people's choice for the second.

Forgot something I wanted to bring up. The rawr kill. In Pictures of Birds mafia, Shadoweh and NNR were competing scum wagons D1, and the scum killed the hammerer of the wagon that went through. Zak commented that this obviously meant that the other wagon was town, since otherwise why would they make that kill. I'm thinking he went through that same logic process here to paint a picture of Serela as a town counterwagon.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 18, 2014, 07:09:54 PM
Why didn't CF7 claim when he was at L-1? There was literally no reason for him not to, given we know that at least one person was on the opposing wagon. If Bardiche was scum, that leaves two scumbuddies on the countering wagon, and he just gives up? No.
I personally think this is a strong case for Bard!town anyway.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Shadoweh on March 18, 2014, 07:11:30 PM
NNR clearly didn't know about Bard's results, reading over Day 2.  Which to be honest, is probably a townier move, because crumbing your investigative results for townie cred but then hiding it from your neighbour doesn't make sense. And Bard was pointedly crumbing that he targetted me with something that turned his opinion up on me (so did Sacchi lol you guys make me feel so popular)

For Bardiche to be scum it would also mean the entire scumteam refrained from bussing CF7. And that Bard decided to be friends with his buddies. Which would also be mindblowing. Circumstantially I don't feel like these actions are enough to clear Bard, but I don't really get scum vibes off of him.

I might also be stalling until Dormio gets back to tell me what my magic did.

Remember when Dormio fakeclaimed a restriction after dragging everyone into a QT and Serela was all, "Well I don't even want to think about Dormio scum"? Then I pointed out a flaw in his claim and everybody agreed Dormio should have rightfully won.
Do you feel like Serela should have rightfully won along with you? :D
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 18, 2014, 07:13:21 PM
Oh, oh. Also the fact that Serela kept on apologizing to Sky_Paladin for having a VT pm while thinking he was the scummiest scum to ever scum, when everyone else was like either "no you're fakeclaiming" or "huh maybe this is a town claim" Serela was like "we have to lynch this because"
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 18, 2014, 07:14:12 PM
Shadoweeeeeee come ride the Serelapony.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 18, 2014, 07:16:34 PM
Bardiche stop being defeatist and let's lynch Scumrela.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Shadoweh on March 18, 2014, 07:17:34 PM
Shadoweeeeeee come ride the Serelapony.
LET ME GET MY MAGIC RESULTS FIRST OKAY
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Bardiche on March 18, 2014, 07:17:51 PM
##Vote: Serela

Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Bardiche on March 18, 2014, 07:21:59 PM
Shadoweh: I'm not sure why I would crumb my role to one person in specific when it's already dangerous enough to crumb your role to everybody for fear of scum reprisal? The less people the better and you made clear you picked up on the crumb.

Conqueror: Do you know how much effort caring is when you feel like you put more effort into this game than the rest? Dan is scummy as all get-out and I am baffled people are giving him so much of a free pass. I cleared Serela at some point to myself and I don't remember why. Serela being Scum would explain at least why he suggests to mislynch me first and then go after Dan in an effort to line up lynches.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Shadoweh on March 18, 2014, 07:29:03 PM
The counter question to that is why didn't you do it the other way around? You didn't seem to suspect Neko, why didn't you claim only to him and havve him do the crumbing?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: BT on March 18, 2014, 07:30:03 PM
Why didn't CF7 claim when he was at L-1? There was literally no reason for him not to, given we know that at least one person was on the opposing wagon. If Bardiche was scum, that leaves two scumbuddies on the countering wagon, and he just gives up? No.
I personally think this is a strong case for Bard!town anyway.
It isn't.

(1)

CF7 (7): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, BT, Kingault, Serela, Conqueror, Sky Paladin
Serela (3): Bardiche, Zakeri, CF7

(2)

Timezones. CF7 showed up when most people left and the wagon was pretty much confirmed.

(3)

CF7 was apathetic as fuck.


The rest of the case is fine though. I'll get my own post later today.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: BT on March 18, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
Also: I'm not sure I like how the "double scum wagons" formed because Zak and CF7 basically threw their vote there for no reason. They could have tried for some other wagon if they thought the case would eventually blow over. I also don't FEEL like CF7's lone vote on Serela was a bus, but I'll make sure when I check the timing of those votes again later.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Bardiche on March 18, 2014, 07:34:46 PM
The counter question to that is why didn't you do it the other way around? You didn't seem to suspect Neko, why didn't you claim only to him and havve him do the crumbing?

Because neighbour makes me paranoid as fuck, especially considering investigative + neighbour is pretty damn strong.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: BT on March 18, 2014, 07:36:21 PM
Because neighbour makes me paranoid as fuck, especially considering investigative + neighbour is pretty damn strong.
Wasn't the neighborhood in NHK a perfect counterexample?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: ActionDan on March 18, 2014, 07:53:06 PM
I could obviously vote Serela at any point
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 18, 2014, 10:23:50 PM
It's ISO time~~~  I'm not looking forward to it because Bard's probably in the top three for 'people who have written a lot this game', zzz. 

Before then, some preliminary thoughts on day 5;

Who to lynch - Pre-iso, I think Bard is most scummy.  However, I note that a mislynch of Dan or Serela is a good mislynch and I'm always happy to mislynch unhelpful or afk players unless actually confirmed town.  When I saw both Dan and Serela auto-sheep on Bard, when I'd just said I didn't have a case and wanted to look in depth in the morning, I was so angry.  After so many people tried so hard it just infuriates me that they think flippant behaviour like this is playing properly.  Ugh.  At least one of them is town and can't use the excuse 'right I was scum so it was some strategy' like Serela did last game.  I just can't see scum!Bard not killing Serela before now, except that the tactical kill of SB was practically demanded. 

If I was SB, I would have jailed Bard last night.  Did he crumb it? 
First post;  (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079469.html#msg1079469) not Bard. 
Serela. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079580.html#msg1079580)
Bard. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079591.html#msg1079591)
Serela again. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079640.html#msg1079640)
Not Bard. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079675.html#msg1079675)
Straight out says Bard = town. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079685.html#msg1079685)

Nothing else of consequence.  Conclusion:  He blocked Serela last night. 

***

Bard:
Quote
Night 1 I tracked Shadoweh, and Shadoweh did not commit the kill.
  I assume Shadoweh can corroborate your statement otherwise you would not have said it.  Still waiting on Shadoweh's Dormio magic too, however. 

Conqueror:
Quote
we're not lynching Bard on the grounds that I'm willing to bet real money that SB jailkept Bardiche last night.
  How much money :3
Quote
Why didn't CF7 claim when he was at L-1?
I think that CF7's role was critical for the scum team.  Without him they are stuck to one kill a night.  I can't see how CF7 would have just laid over and died to prevent a Serela counterbus, because what possible scum role is more valuable than extra kills?  If CF7 had died instead of (other theoretical scum) there would be three or four extra dead people today...and it would be LYLO or game over already. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 18, 2014, 10:32:06 PM
I just realised that SB may have defensively jailed somebody like Shadoweh to protect them from a night hit.  It may explain why Shadoweh didn't get a response from Dormio.  Please let me know if I am smoking crack, Shadoweh. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 18, 2014, 10:34:53 PM
Quote
Night 1 I tracked Shadoweh, and Shadoweh did not commit the kill.

Also, if true (confirmed by Shadoweh), possibly confirms Bard town.  CF7 flipped with an 'evade trackers' hit.  However Bard claims restricted use of tracker; conditional tracker + limited use evade seems a bit hit and miss.  I'd appreciate other players thoughts on this.  OK ISO time.  Better grab a coffee. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Shadoweh on March 18, 2014, 10:44:52 PM
Dormio sent me a link to a troll video instead of a result. I think it's safe to say I was roleblocked. >_> It's okay it's not like Conq's global RB ruined my superpower the first time too, I DIDN'T WANT TO BE A PR ANYWAYS

Sky P: Uh, yes I collaborate that I did not kill anyone on Night 1? :V Zakeri had no abilities Night 1, so Bardiche being elsewhere doesn't confirm he's not scum, as nice as that would be.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: BT on March 18, 2014, 10:49:00 PM
Wait, duh, Bard's the only Tracker in the game, the one that warrants the ninja kill on CF7.

##Vote Serela

Derp.

It could be that Sacchi's role opens up other watchers or trackers but even if that's the case I'm inclined to believe the kill is there as a counter to a definite and not a maybe.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 18, 2014, 11:35:10 PM
Conqueror:  How much money :3
I think that CF7's role was critical for the scum team.  Without him they are stuck to one kill a night.  I can't see how CF7 would have just laid over and died to prevent a Serela counterbus, because what possible scum role is more valuable than extra kills?  If CF7 had died instead of (other theoretical scum) there would be three or four extra dead people today...and it would be LYLO or game over already.
If CF7 was the most critical scum role, and he was scumbuddies with Zak and Bard pushing a counterwagon on town Serela, I don't see how he wouldn't have claimed something that town would really not want to lynch.
I also highly doubt CF7 could give extra kills; if so, maybe once in the game, certainly not every night. >_> I imagine in the redacted parts of the PMs there are things about no double killing actions.
The possibility of Shadoweh being protectively jailkept is possible. I think right now both Bardiche and Shadoweh are claiming roleblocked? I'm also keeping in mind there's been no scum roleblocker flip yet though. Feels like a role scum would be certain to have.

The Bard being a tracker cleared by ninja point came to mind but I didn't bring it up because it's not really Slam Dunk since ~*gaming the setup*~. But it's a point in favour of Bard.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 18, 2014, 11:36:19 PM
Oh wait nvm, Bard said his role was prevented by condition. `_`
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Shadoweh on March 18, 2014, 11:51:50 PM
He did, which is why I waited to be cockblocked before confirming it. I do not think scum have a roleblocker, because SB was the scum's roleblock.
If anything I would think the last scum is informational. Or a day-voteblocker that doesn't work in LYLO... :V
Bard or Serela are really the prime suspects imo. I don't even suspect Dan anymore because his hanging around comments were all 'lynch Zak plz'
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 19, 2014, 12:06:04 AM
ISO of Bard;

RVS of NNR (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1076975.html#msg1076975), his neighbour.  Relevant because Bard does not do RVS.  Fourth vote on NNR, why wagon your neighbour?  Because it's convenient if their dead, right?  Possible crumbing for neighbour later; he could say "I knew he was active because he posted in our QT."  Pretty scummy RVS in hindsight lol.  But then, "Goddamn I thought you were huh what."
Switch to SB (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1076982.html#msg1076982) for self vote. 
Inevitable (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077123.html#msg1077123) Serela vote.  Did not countervote King for his self vote despite doing it right after SB.  Irrelevant because King/SB both flipped town. 
Case on Serela. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077304.html#msg1077304)  Crumbs neighbour.  Case is that Serela is still jokeposting. 
//Incidentally, noting Conq and Dan voting Zak with CF7 at L-2.  We know Zak flips red, so town points for you two.  Dan voting Serela. 
//Zak case and vote for Serela. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077433.html#msg1077433)  Attempt by scum to bus on not CF7 or Zak.  Relevant because...
Challenges (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077569.html#msg1077569) Zak for his Serela vote.  Also starts a back and forth between Serela.
Strong (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077746.html#msg1077746) case for Serela lynch. 
Soft (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077800.html#msg1077800) pressure on Shadoweh for her CF7 vote.  Not really sure what to make of this post.  It seems like a lot but not much actual concreteness to it.  Start of back and forth with Conqueror. 
(End Day 1 with vote on Serela, with CF7 and Zakeri). 

CF7 (): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, BT, Kingault, Serela, Conqueror, Sky Paladin, DrRawr
Serela (3): Bardiche, Zakeri, CF7
Zakeri (1): ActionDan
Shadoweh (1): Sacchi Hikaru
Sky Paladin (1): SB

It looks so bad because Bard put his vote there when CF7 was at L-2. 

Very good (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078131.html#msg1078131) analysis post, also ignores the train forming on me.  Scum wouldn't need to avoid it.  This was the post that had me handwaving Bard as town for most of the game.  I also took from this post some inspiration to get away from arguing with NNR and focus on scumhunting, which probably saved me from being lynched day 2. 
//Sky VT claim + hilarity. 
Supports (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078460.html#msg1078460) VT claim, note bolded letters supports Bard's later claim that he can't out the entire contents of his role.  Really town post, argues against a quicklynch because discussion = good.  Bard used this post to defend me so it's kind of beautiful that it'll come back to defend him in the long run :)  You can't buy that sort of karma. 
Catches (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078515.html#msg1078515) a possible scumslip on Serela.  Who are the 'we' you are talking about, right? 
//Relevant.  Sky was at L-1 for a very long time day 2, while scum!Zak was voting for BT.  Zak could have shifted and quickhammered me.  Why didn't he?  I assume he didn't want to get scum credit for quickhammering a towny but it's probably the best argument for scum!Sky <.<;;  Just throwing it out there because...the other people who could have quickhammered were only Bard, Shadoweh, BT, Conqueror and Shadoweh.  So the other scum was probably already on the bus -> NekoNekoRex, ActionDan, Serela, Sacchi Hikaru, O4rfish.  Pretty much confirms one of ActionDan or Serela at this point imo.  JUST LIKE LAST GAME. 
//Day 2 burn out of players, posting of random images etc. 
Destroys (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078887.html#msg1078887) Oarfish for all very credible reasons. 
//Oarfish self destruct. 

O4rfish (4): Bardiche, Shadoweh, Sky Paladin, Sacchi Hikaru
SB (2): O4rfish, Serela
Sky Paladin (1): NekoNekoRex
BT (1): Zakeri
Zakeri (1): ActionDan

^^ Not sure what to make of this.  Bard's vote was early in the day and cut through a lot of bullshit.  Scum!Zak conspiciously absent from Oarfish and SB wagons.  Serela voting with Oarfish on SB.  Bard voting with town.  Probably town. 

(day 4)
Votes for Queen Shadoweh. 
Start (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079581.html#msg1079581) of back and forth with SB.  Main points:  Bard tunnel on Serela.  SB scumreads Serela. 
"Where I'm at" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079637.html#msg1079637) post.  Source of Dan > Zakeri sentiment. 
Start (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079660.html#msg1079660) of back and forth with Sky over who is NNR's scummy neighbour, Bard claims notscumNeighbour.  Okay. 
Zak or Dan, (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079949.html#msg1079949) I care not which you seek. 
//Serela post restriction, better check if she breached it. 
//Queen Shadoweh executes Zakeri, there was much rejoicing. 

Day 1 ignored CF7 wagon.  Handwaving it because he did challenge Zakeri for his Serela vote.  The main problem is that Serela and Zak were the alternative counterwagons to CF7.  So a scum team of Serela/Zak/CF7 had nowhere to go.  A scum team of Bard/CF7/Zak COULD push for a Serela lynch; except that the ones who pushed it were actually Bard and SB.  So this situation seems implausible, while Serela/Zak/CF7 is more realistic. 

I am town clearing Bard.  His indecisiveness over Zak is clearly because he wasn't sure if it was better to get rid of a bottom feeder or somebody he thought was scum, and he wasn't sure which was which.  There was plenty of opportunity for him to get an easy town mislynch on day 2 and MANY reasons for him to not hard-defend Sky as scum. 

***

Dan spent a lot of time wishing for Zak's death.  Probably the closest we'll ever get to town clearing Dan this game. 

I'll probably vote Serela, but I want to hit post now and take a short break. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Serela on March 19, 2014, 12:41:40 AM
Conq, you are seriously acting like my wagon had any chance of actually going through? Look back on it and remember how utterly shit it was >_> Two of the people had voted me over what the mod said and were too lazy to unvote after Dormio took it back, even though it was apparently either the only reason, or mostly the reason they were voting me. Zak was on there from middle of the day before I had actually existed. And then there was CF7's lolvote. There was only one vote that was legit at all, and no one present had any apparent desire to lynch me at all :V

And, uh, no, if you think I'm pushing Sacchi then you haven't read my posts today, like the one where I said he's probably town and maybe even soft-confirmed town.

Quote
Also the fact that Serela kept on apologizing to Sky_Paladin
I apologize to people over stuff "in case you're town" on a regular basis I think, although then again I guess it hasn't happened super recently? It used to be a lot more prevalent. The only one that specifically comes to mind is IHNN getting lynched d1 of 10D Mafia.
>Serela was like "we have to lynch this because"
Um, no. I said the claim was null and that we should lynch SkyPaladin because he had done some scummy shit. I stated this multiple times and, you know, there was a reason he was being brutally wagoned and having people talking about quicklynching him before he claimed. I was -the person- pushing SkyPal's lynch all of d1, are you really arguing me thinking we should lynch SkyPal for the scummy stuff he did, is bad? ;_;

Hi Bard. I was saying you and then Dan because everyone else is town, and most of the game seems to agree on that part (at least until a case against me appeared, I apparently was not so wrong in saying "or maybe I'll get lynched")

Quote
I also highly doubt CF7 could give extra kills; if so, maybe once in the game, certainly not every night. >_> I imagine in the redacted parts of the PMs there are things about no double killing actions.
SB said he asked Dormio and that Dormio said "Yes That's An Extra Kill", although he'd have to get off a fifth night action to use it again and still not be the only scum left, so, the game would be over before a second doublekill is possible.

The reasons for clearing Bard as town are good I think, but the issue is apparently nobody wants to lynch Dan anymore, and I'm not sure who else I would pick. If SkyPaladin is Actually Scum then he did a pretty goddamn glorious job of turning things around post-claim, but I extremely doubt it. Conq I admittedly cleared based on the Dreaming God claim, which might be a retarded move, but I still don't really want to lynch him at all. Shadoweh!scum is a lol prospect and that leads to Sacchi probably being town too? That'd leave BT but dude, bt scum, what

Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 19, 2014, 12:46:28 AM
Quote
Conq I admittedly cleared based on the Dreaming God claim

Actually, was there anything that happened today because of it? 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Mr. Sacchi on March 19, 2014, 12:50:45 AM
For the record, I'm very much awake but currently in the middle of class, I'll be back home in 2-ish hours.

I'll make an Actual Post once I get back, Skypal, is there any reason why you're not telling us about your upgrade or is it just for the sake of ambiguity? If it is then don't bother to claim, unless you're an SK or something.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Mr. Sacchi on March 19, 2014, 12:52:55 AM
And I doubt Conqueror would know what the effect of his Dreaming God ability had on today.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Serela on March 19, 2014, 12:53:46 AM
I think Sky not claiming whatever it is right now is best. We have more scum nightkills to go and no one thinks he's scum at all as far as I can tell.

Anyway I'm going to reread BT at some point (maybe even tonight if I recover from tiredness soon)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Serela on March 19, 2014, 12:55:09 AM
also bard I totally reread and considered your dormio case in Mirai Nikki Mafia I just didn't agree with it and said as much ;_;
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 19, 2014, 12:55:35 AM
Just a bit of flavour, you can see it at the start of the day. Same as D1.

Serela, even if the basis of your wagon was shitty, how many people are going to want to lynch, say, a claimed cop over a claimed roleblocker?
I concede the Sacchi point although I'm more interested in why you thought he was a null possibility in the first place. His claim that you were saying made him town happened yesterday, not today.
re: apologizing, okay, I'm willing to let that point slide because you did it as Kogasa EVEN THOUGH IT'S STILL SOMETHING SCUMMY AND IF YOU THINK SOMEONE IS SCUM YOU SHOULDNT BE ADDRESSING THEM AS IF THEY'RE TOWN.
Yes, I'm going to say it was bad, given that he started looking noticeably better around after the time after the vanilla claim, at which point you were still pushing hard over his lynch and pointing to his D1. Seeing as scum didn't know the true nature of the double day, they'd be pretty behind with CF7's D1 lynch, not to mention the double day, so I can imagine why they wouldn't want to give up on the Sky lynch so easily. As a side note, Zak pushing BT after the Sky wagon fell through is more evidence in favour of BT!town because bussing at that point would just be a Really Bad Move.

Serela, why do you think Dan is scum at this point even. Feels like you're just being lazy.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 19, 2014, 12:55:55 AM
And I doubt Conqueror would know what the effect of his Dreaming God ability had on today.
I asked, there was no effect.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 19, 2014, 12:56:52 AM
Quote
is there any reason why you're not telling us about your upgrade or is it just for the sake of ambiguity

It's just for the sake of ambiguity. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Serela on March 19, 2014, 12:58:07 AM
...I am going to refrain from overreacting as I remember that I'm only supposed to post once every six hours, and just posted three times in a row.

brb getting modkilled or something >_>;;
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 19, 2014, 01:00:10 AM
Oh, that exists. That's going to be a pain.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 19, 2014, 01:03:08 AM
When you get back you can answer that and what you thought was town about Zak's D2 play.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 19, 2014, 01:11:18 AM
SHUT UP THINGS ARE GOING TO HAPPEN WHEN I'M NOT IN CLASS.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Night 5
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 19, 2014, 02:09:21 AM
Because I am so kind and benevolent, I will not kill you. You will, however, be restricted to only ONE post every 6 hours for the remainder of the day and during the next day phase.
Serela has been modkilled.

Day 5 has ended.

It is now Night 5, you have 24 hours to send in any night actions that you may or may not have. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?p0=240&iso=20140320T13&year=2014&month=3&day=20&hour=13&min=0&sec=0&msg=Night%205)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 20, 2014, 12:37:34 AM
Oblivious to the chaos unfolding everywhere else, ActionDan simply yawns.
"It's too loud out here. I'm going back to sleep."
And, with that declaration, ActionDan was never heard from again.
ActionDan - Kiruko Tachiarai, Sleeping Lazy(Lethargy) was forcibly removed from the game Night 5!
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Kiruko_Tachiarai.png)
Quote
Genius Intellect (Abnormality): Your intellect is so great that, had you wished it, you could have easily entered any of the special classes from 10 to 13. However, you are far too lazy to put in the effort required to join any of those classes and would rather sleep in class 1 instead. As a result of your laziness, you will not be able to act during the following two phases after taking any action.

"Ahyahyahyahyahya!"
"You guys aren't bad at all."
"You know what, I'll let you have your fun."
"It'll be a nice change to have someone else doing the plotting for once."
Sacchi Hikaru - Hansode Shiranui, Food Enthusiast(Motivator) was forcibly removed from the game Night 5!
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Hansode_Shiranui.jpg)
Quote
Real Eater (Minus): You are the owner of the most disgusting skill in the world, Real Eater. If given the chance to use this ability, you may eat a target player's ability during the night and alter it in an appropriate fashion. Your alterations will begin taking effect when the following day phase starts and last until the next night phase ends.

The sixth day of the popularity contest has begun!

"Maybe I'll be able to see better from up here."

Votecount
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: Everybody

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~73.5 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 12:45:12 AM
Sky P, did you shoot Dan? :V
that thing I said about there being no roleblocker? I take it back because I was roleblocked again.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 12:48:22 AM
I swear Dormio I am going to murder you.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Mr. Sacchi on March 20, 2014, 12:48:29 AM
Blah post:

Welp I'm dead :colonveeplusalpha:

It was real fun playing with you all, I consider this game a personal victory for surviving so long on my first game :3

Good luck to you all!
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 12:57:50 AM
Bardiche should claim if he has any tracker results.

I still don't think it's him from how he handled D2 with the crumbing of his unclaimable ability, plus I really do think he would have handled interactions differently if he were scum with CF7 and Zak. Plus ninja to tracker, but that's not as strong.
Same for Shadoweh, although she could be completely pulling the wool over my eyes again, but I've never seen Shadoweh whiteknight someone as scum.

I guess I'll have to reread Sky and BT again? I hate this game, I've never been this lost so far into a game. Well, there was Angel Beats BUT AT LEAST I HAD A KILL IN THAT GAME SO I COULD MURDER PEOPLE AT NIGHT INSTEAD OF WAITING FOR DAY ACTIONS THAT NEVER HAPPEN.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:02:42 AM
...Except that BT read as town for general play and Sky as well so I might as well just reread everyone when I get to it. Probably some useful stuff from D1 and early interactions with CF7/Zak etc.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:03:59 AM
I am also going to personally strangle whoever is mafia at the end of this game for their choice of night kill. Actually the nightkills alone are probably enough for me to say Sky!town.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:09:24 AM
BT pretty much hard supported Dan and attacked Zak all through the kingmaker issue when they had both claimed. For instance, the bringing up of why Dan's role would make sense for town which I don't think anyone else would have even thought of otherwise. So either he had already committed to a bus by the very start of the day given the kingmaker situation or he's just plain town. Just a note for myself.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:12:53 AM
@mod Will LYLO be announced?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 20, 2014, 01:13:56 AM
@mod Will LYLO be announced?
*YLO will be announced.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:14:32 AM
Okay. Also, I'm still hated today, so if someone "accidentally" hammers me it's a scumclaim.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:20:30 AM
Sky was town clearing Dan yesterday, it wouldn't make sense for him to kill Dan.

So...if anyone wants to claim either of the kills they should do it.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:20:47 AM
*If anyone made any of the kills last night they should claim it.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 20, 2014, 01:22:58 AM
I shot Dan for complicated reason that basically boil down to 'I am not sure which of Conq, Bard or BT are scum'.  So I decided to kill the easy mislynch option.  There wasn't enough day 5 content to make a good choice between those three.  If we had more time on day 5 to get a good secondary option, I would have shot them instead.  Dan probably wasn't the best option but I didn't have the cajones to shoot Conq, who was my final not!Dan pick. 

I re-ISO'd everyone.  I was torn between shooting Conq or Bard last night.  I didn't want to shoot Bard because I'd just town cleared him, but his apathetic response to being put up for lynch on day 5 made me think twice.  Also, Conq said some things on day 5 and made a really bad case on Serela that set off a lot of alarms for me.  I'll go through it in detail in just a moment.  Dan had also named Zak and CF7 as his scum picks early on day 1.  I thought this was too coincidental - he also normally town clears players - and I figured town would be better off without Dan to mislynch, and force the hard decision today (and tomorrow). 

Actually there's a lot I want to write right now but there's one thing on my mind that I can't ignore, so let me get it out and then move on. 

Shadoweh
Quote
that thing I said about there being no roleblocker? I take it back because I was roleblocked again.

How is that possible when there was a scum hit last night?  Is there a game where a single scum player could hit and roleblock at the same time?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:27:56 AM
I thought my case on Serela was pretty good. ;-;

@Mod If there was only one scum left, could they kill and perform another night action on the same night?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 20, 2014, 01:29:18 AM
@Mod If there was only one scum left, could they kill and perform another night action on the same night?
Maybe.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:30:48 AM
Sky claiming the vig shot makes me pretty certain he's not the scum we're looking for. That would be just insane as a scum activated power.

Curiously enough, I'm not sure the last scum is either Bard or BT. Bard's apathy is explainable when you read his defense and how everyone basically wanted to lynch him for a combination of PoE and his D1 defense of CF7. In his position I'd be mildly apathetic too. BT's play is a little volatile but on reread I still see a lot of things I like and even though he boomerangs between his reads a lot there's a bunch of good town clears, some more valid than others.

I think Shadoweh might be the last scum.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:32:56 AM
On the other hand, Shadoweh being sent to a troll video wrt roleblocked is pretty consistent with my constant queries to Dormio asking what my day effect is.  :V
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 20, 2014, 01:39:48 AM
At this stage I kind of want to go with Shadoweh scumslip on account of both CF7 and Zakeri having 'You may not use this ability in conjunction with any of your other abilities' on all of their kill options, making a sabotage impossible.

Unless the player who is doing the sabotaging wants to put their hand up for a free townclear, I guess, but then they have to explain why they sabotaged Shadoweh.  Which would then, not incidentally, townclear Shadoweh. 

***

The other thing I was kicking around last night was that BT is the only player to have claimed a passive only role.  Everybody else, except for Dan and myself, had a 'select target' type role.  So his claim actually doesn't check out.  And when I got upgraded, it was a 'select target'.  And if Dan got upgraded, it would have probably been 'select target'. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 20, 2014, 01:40:56 AM
Correction, NNR also had a passive role.  So I guess my argument doesn't hold water. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 01:42:05 AM
I think Shadoweh might be the last scum.
Shouldn't it be LYLO right now if you're Hated town, Conqueror?

>_> Sky, the roleblocker is nnot going to claim to be roleblocking, plz stop.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 01:43:44 AM
BT's role by nature is immune to being upgraded, so that's a silly thing to hold against him in the first place.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:43:52 AM
Shouldn't it be LYLO right now if you're Hated town, Conqueror?
No, because my hated isn't active in LYLO. See any of Dormio's discussions about Hated roles in LYLO and you'll see that it makes sense.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:46:09 AM
Some mods allow double role use if the scum is the last one remaining. It's not really a solid thing.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:47:27 AM
Shouldn't it be LYLO right now if you're Hated town, Conqueror?
So do you think I'm scum?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 01:48:57 AM
I want to know what you think about Bard, Shadoweh.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 20, 2014, 01:49:23 AM
Votecount
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):
BT (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: Everybody

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~72 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 01:49:47 AM
Actually hold on one second.
(http://i.imgur.com/NyXwtfQ.jpg)
Dormio is telling me my results might be slightly different.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 20, 2014, 01:58:46 AM
I tracked Dan because I thought he was Scum. He didn't go anywhere. Well, except for the next world.

Shadoweh claims being roleblocked. This means one of three things:
1) Scum can roleblock AND kill in the same night.
2) Someone among us lied during the claim period and is actually also a roleblocker. That'd be either Conqueror or BT, now that Sky Paladin has claimed upgrade to a vigilante. Town not claiming roleblock and/or targeting Shadoweh makes me think if this is true, the roleblocker is ITP.
3) Shadoweh is Scum faking a roleblock.

Again, my Track result on N1 indicated Shadoweh did not target anyone outside of herself. Before I go off into speculation land I'd like to ask Shadoweh to fullclaim her role for as much as she is able to.

I'll reread the living players' ISO. I had hoped Serela was the last scum and Dormio was just trolling us by letting another night phase go, but no such luck. >_> Unless Serela was the last Scum and we're now down to hunting an ITP, which is possible given the roleblock that was unexplained.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 20, 2014, 01:59:48 AM
** But still unlikely. I'm gonna assume we've still got a scumbag to weed out and that should be #1 priority.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 02:02:46 AM
God damnit Dormio.

So Dormio has been telling me I get nothing for the past few nights, when what he actually meant was 'You didn't see anyone besides yourself.' >_> This was kind of an important distinction seeing as I watched Bardiche yesterday and didn't see anyone target him. If you're wondering why I didn't target SB, the answer to that is HA HA SHUT UP SHUT UP I CAN MAKE GOOD DECISIONS I DIDN'T LOSE THE GAME FOR US OKAY HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAWAAAAAH

*breathes* So okay, I wasn't roleblocked last night. I just didn't see anyone besides myself. Which is expected. Annoying still but.

Conq: Do I think you could be scum? I certainly think you're the kind of scumbag that would leave me alive for laughs. I'm not sure if you're the kind who would kill NekoNekoRex and Rawr over the current list of alive people. You're certainly the kind that would be arguing that I lynched my own scumbuddy instead of you when you gave me control of the lynch.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 02:05:51 AM
I don't actually have anything stopping me claiming conditions. I'm a Watcher that targets myself. Which isn't as bad as I made it out to be from the start, but still pretty close to useless. Sacchi removed the 'Self' from the equation and made me do a little dance of joy.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 20, 2014, 02:11:37 AM
That explains N1 results. Unless Scum!Shadoweh would target herself on N1 to set up a Self-Watcher claim later on I'm going to assume that means Shadoweh is Town.

That means PoE leaves BT and Conqueror, as Sky Paladin proved the vigilante part of his role. For the sake of sanity I'm going to assume Scum can't kill twice in one night, at least not when they're all isolated and alone. >_>

Going to read interactions between Zak and Conq, and Zak and BT. CF7 interactions can probably be discarded but given how little he posted, not hard to do.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 02:13:32 AM
>Watching Bardiche instead of SB the Jailkeeper
>Tracking Dan Last Night

Oh my god, you have to be kidding me. I swear if you are both town.

Conq: Do I think you could be scum? I certainly think you're the kind of scumbag that would leave me alive for laughs. I'm not sure if you're the kind who would kill NekoNekoRex and Rawr over the current list of alive people. You're certainly the kind that would be arguing that I lynched my own scumbuddy instead of you when you gave me control of the lynch.
Actually, you're probably right about that, I could see myself keeping you alive for laughs. Although it's not the case in this game. :V
Anyway I think that upgrading self-watcher claim is hilarious enough for Dormio to actually put in his setup. So you've gotten basically no results since the start of the game?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 02:15:08 AM
That also means Bardiche is Actually a Tracker. And so...I guess I'll go reread BT to make sure then.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 02:16:35 AM
Well no, clearly I was targetted for the first two nights. I knew Sacchi was the Motivator because he was the only one who targetted me N3. Both him and Bardiche targetted me N1. (I was as surprised as everyone else was when Bard claimed Neighbour >.> )
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 20, 2014, 02:18:09 AM
Ah, alright.  I guess I'll wait until Bard comes in with some result. 

Anyway, Conq, the reason I didn't like your claim on Serela was:  It's easy to get a claim on Serela, like, no effort required.  It's the reason she frustrates me because there's literally no difference between her scum play or her town play.  It's all bad.  So on that end, she's actually a very talented mafia player because she's so hard to pick as scum. 

Second, your claim arrived in bits and pieces. 
"Serela is scum. I'll make a bigger post on this later. "
Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080383.html#msg1080383) is your vote.  "The answer is that the competing wagon was his scumbuddy and he doesn't want to get Serela lynched because there's the chance that he'll also get lynched immediately the next day after getting counterclaimed. Suddenly everything makes sense. "  Basically I disagreed.  So it's unfair of me to say you had a bad claim, but the argumetn you made was wrong and I thought 'This is scum attempting to get the easy mislynch, and next up will be ActionDan'.  Partly this is why I shot Dan, to force the hard conversation today, and because I thought he had a chance at being scum.  Then you finish with "Will make a bigger case with quotes, but yeah. Serela is the scum." but this never appeared.  Maybe because Serela blew herself up before you could do it, but you had many small and one liner posts after then. 

It didn't look like the organised, got-your-shit-together Conqueror that we know and love, so I thought there was a fake reason for it. 

There was something else I wanted to say but I forgot it. 

Oh right.  This is the third 'no effect' from the Dreamer.  I was wondering that we might be getting no dreams if scum!Conqueror was making the hits, and can't dream and hit.  Just now you said 'Some mods allow double role use if the scum is the last one remaining.' so I guess that's out. 

Well that's all :/ 

I'm going to say I'm probably towncleared because what scum would ever hit Dan right?   But it sucks because we had so many modkills, the vote analysis is really weak. 

I mean just using flips:
Day 1
CF7 (): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, BT, Kingault, Serela, Conqueror, Sky Paladin, DrRawr
Serela (3): Bardiche, Zakeri, CF7
Zakeri (1): ActionDan
Shadoweh (1): Sacchi Hikaru
Sky Paladin (1): SB

Serela was not the only valid counterbus.  There was also Shadoweh and Sky_Paladin because those two had towny votes.  Serela was the main counterbus because she attracted a lot of momentum votes due to the role shenanigan incident.  Otherwise we are saying absolutely no scum tried to bus CF7, AND that all three scum voted for Serela and nobody else.   Is it viable? 

Day 2
Last votecount before asplode
O4rfish (4): Bardiche, Shadoweh, Sky Paladin, Sacchi Hikaru
SB (2): O4rfish, Serela
Sky Paladin (1): NekoNekoRex
BT (1): Zakeri
Zakeri (1): ActionDan
Conqueror (1): SB

//Not voting: Conqueror, BT
Zak conspiciously avoided hammering me when he had the motive and opportunity.  Why didn't he do it?  The only reason I can think is scums knew I was vanilla and wanted to try to lynch a power role instead.  So that's why the case on BT from Zak, but it didn't attract any attention, and consolidation onto Oarfish.  That's a split between Bard and Shadoweh. 

Day 4 - lynch of scum!Zak, ultimate bus if scum!Shadoweh. 
Day 5 -
Serela (3) - Bard, Conqueror, BT

:/

Cut by Bard and others:
I'm discounting the possibility of an ITP because there's been no bonus deaths at any point except for last night.  What kind of anti-town ITP has no kill power?

Technical difficulties:  ...

God it's so hard.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 02:22:51 AM
There's actually is a pretty significant difference between Serela's town and scum play, although I've gotten worse at distinguishing it recently. But really, take me word for it that his scum and town play aren't exactly the same. There are some games where he's just so obviously town and some games where he's obviously scum. And then there's games like this one where welp.

The argument I made was wrong in hindsight but at the time I thought it was a slam dunk because it explained everything I as so confused about this game. Re: not getting to post more about Serela: I never got to it; Serela appeared, I responded to his replies, and then he blew himself up. I can't really say anything about this except you suck Serela. I didn't expect Dormio to actually modkill Serela since I thought he was the last scum though.

As for being organized, I'm not actually that organized unless I replace right into a game or I'm scum. Or, I have a really good hold of the game.

As for the no effect, I'm as frustrated as you are.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 20, 2014, 02:23:30 AM
Alright, let me get this straight. 
Bard is confirming Shadoweh as town because she watched herself n1 (Creepy).  And Shadoweh is confirming Bard as town because he targeted her night 1 and didn't die.  We're assuming one of them didn't lie. 

We're assuming BT is probably town because of his pursuit of CF7 and Zak.  And that I am town because of Justice ActionDan. 

That kind of leaves Conqueror out in the open.  Cut by Conqueror.  Welp. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 02:26:50 AM
You know, except for the issue where I'm not scum, but okay. But I do agree that the roles are enough to clear Bardiche and Shadoweh. And I repeat my argument yesterday that if Bardiche is scum, then the Serela counterwagon is all three scum consecutively and CF7 decided not to claim for shits and giggles. Which is just...no.

Which leaves BT the superbusser. >_>
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 02:30:19 AM
I'm not saying it confirms Bard as town. Technically he could be a rolecop who saw that I saw him and wanted to be reassuring. I just don't think he's acting like scum. But I feel that way about all of you. :/ I didn't have time to even read what was going on with Serela before he imploded. I'd like to think I would have said being the counterwagon was enough to lynch Bard instead of him, at least. Dan is certainly a vig kill that people expect. but I told you he wasn't scum. :V

See, the reason I watched Bard over SB was I was kind of still paranoid about SB and thought the scum might still need him as a mislynch. <_< I knew Bard was an investigative role and I thought we were being pretty obvious about that, so I waffled alot on whether they would kill the investigator or the jailkeeper. I mean, in the last game the jailkeeper was the one that lived forever and we all suffered for it.

I just.. Conq's play is scummier then BT's, so it's hard for me to argue that BT is scum because he caught the scum instead of arguing against them. I really don't want to lynch anyone. T_T
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 02:45:32 AM
;-;
Shadoweh you're physically hurting me here by saying my play is scummier than BT's. It's more that BT has played a really good game regardless of his alignment here.

For Day 3, the choice of whether or not to lynch Zak was up to Shadoweh instead of anyone else. It would be similar to huhwhat arguing for Shadoweh's lynch in that kingmaker game.

As for D1, well, read my interactions between CF7 and Zak and conclude if you think the best way for me to defuse a wagon on my scumbuddy was to attacking the scumbuddy bussing him to get him off onto another wagon which I wouldn't end up supporting anyways.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 02:47:21 AM
I'll have to make sure it's BT instead of anyone else, but if that's the case we have the opposite of what happened in Mirai Nikki's LYLO. I guess I'll start at D1 again and bring up stuff I can find.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 02:51:08 AM
As for arguing for Zak's lynch before the kingmaker day, I was doing that long before BT so it annoys me on some level people are saying BT was the one pushing for his lynch. When he did come out for Zak's lynch on D4 it was fairly abruptly and strongly.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 02:54:13 AM
Can't answer to being wrong about CF7 except that I still think the basis for the wagon on him was pretty bad reasoning. It makes sense then that it took off via being bussed by Zakeri/BT.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 02:55:35 AM
I guess rawr could have been killed partially for the BT suspicion.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 02:59:53 AM
Reread my D1 and I guess people could make the case that I was prodding a Zak!scumbuddy since it was an early vote and I then got off it to pursue a vanity wagon. Part of the reason I got off at that point though is because almost everyone except Dan disagreed with me and his followup post had been pretty good imo.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 03:15:38 AM
Hmm. Is it okay if we wait for people like Zak to check in?
Clearly a callout to tell my scumbuddy to post, amirite?

Yeah mmm the most I came up with from this read-through is a bunch of townreads. Just makes me want to stay on CF7. He's still showing a lack of initiative and "rawr is town now, kingault is scum" came way too easily like he was just trying to reach a read quota.

The other people I'd like look at are NNR, Conq and Bard for content that "checks out" but feels a bit off in places. Off the top of my head, Conq's take on CF7 and NNR in #120 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077366.html#msg1077366) (didn't feel like he read some of the CF7 cases, and NNR's vote on SkyPaladin was unique enough), NNR's take of CF7 and Zak in #154 (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077411.html#msg1077411) (not sure what exactly bothers me about the CF7 thing but his opionion on Zak feels like it's using the wrong reasons, like what does "pushes it a bit while not being hyperagressive" even mean, is he even addressing the cases on Zak here and what's he doing if he isn't?) and Bard's comment on Zak in #182 (outright dislike this one, Zak explains his opinion on CF7 well and explains why he chose to vote Serela instead just as clearly, calling it a lazy vote is just scummy). NNR would probably be off the hook if CF7 flips scum despite his thing with worrying about the wagon size.

Sacchi might be worth looking into as well. People pointed out how he's paranoid and that's good (IDR who) but I think he's overdoing it, like he's pointing out every little thing because why not. Take the comment on Bard/Serela for exampe.

There's Dan and rawr too. Shadoweh, how sure are you on these guys? I'm kind of like "eh idk". rawr being proactive is fantastic (seriously) but I'm not sure it's indicative of anything. It kind of felt like he ignored me or other people telling him about CF7 just so he could talk more about me.

Don't find anyone else interesting.
This is probably the most interesting BT post I could find. It contains the things that pinged me off about him first on D1; the prods on dan/rawr/sacchi didn't feel sincere.

There's a lot of other posts in my and BT's isos about Zak. Mostly me slightly pushing Zak early, BT slightly defending Zak early, a bit more tug and pull, BT dislikes my case on Zak until Zak makes his case on BT, at which point BT reverses his view of Zak.

Dormio should stop trying to fix every little thing going on, it's ultimately worse than letting the players deal with their own mistakes because it results in mod intervention like this. ::) I could claim that Oar just got a lot more townie.
Scum mad that Dormio clarified Oarfish's claim?

Okay, reading through all of this is just exhausting. I'll say for now that anyone who thinks I would have had an aversion to bussing CF7 scum in that position on D1 (e.g. already a major wagon before I had made a real content post) should read any of my scum games. I don't hard defend buddies who are going to go down that fast. It's suicidal, and it gets zero cred like I said. I wouldn't even do it for meta breaking reasons. The only reason I defended Pyoa Aaaa in C7D was because I had defended him long before he became a wagon and it would look horrible if I suddenly switched; I didn't have to do that with CF7. Yadda Yadda CF7 extra kill but Zak did bus early, even if he got off to make a counterwagon.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 03:16:32 AM
*BT dislikes my push on Zak. I never really had a strong case on Zak. Not even on the day he was lynched, I guess.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 03:19:48 AM
I guess I should reread Bard to make sure I'm not confirmation-biasing on a town!BT but I've thought Bard's general play to be townie for a while even without the claim stuff.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 03:25:39 AM
Okay, I should probably stop posting here for a while.

Some things:

Bard, why did you think Dan was still scum yesterday? I mean, sure, his content was low, but he did support Zak and CF7 lynches early. It would be the weakest bus ever to suspect your buddies and not vote them or any of the counterwagons.
BT, explain again why you wanted CF7 lynched on D1? I reread the discussion and again the most I'm getting is "lacks initiative," so I'm wondering how you distinguished that from lazy!town CF7, if you were thinking that way. Also, why did you change your opinion on Zak?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 03:27:13 AM
Rather, this.
My vote is somewhere between an inquiry and a suspicion. I want to see what his thought process was behind the defense. I don't like how he makes a point of refuting the accusation but doesn't actually go anywhere with it, or do anything else until he was prodded.
I don't see what's scummy about refuting an accusation and not going anywhere if there's nowhere to go that early in the game. It's something that Raikaria gets attacked for doing both as town and scum, so I'm wondering what you were thinking with this query.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 03:29:56 AM
I'm inclined to think Sky Paladin also claimed his role truthfully and that he committed the kill while Zak was actually using O4rfish's role. Scumplay has been five flavours of retarded.
I don't see this wild accusation coming from scum about to be lynched (as that what it seemed like before I came in with my Serela case). Also I agree with the fact that scumplay has been five flavours of retarded. I still don't know what CF7 was doing. Admittedly one of the reasons I came into today going ???? about Shadoweh is that I considered that both CF7 and Zak were staging conversations with Shadoweh as they were about to be lynched and that's why CF7 decided not to fucking claim for some reason, but I don't think that's the case now.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 03:43:47 AM
;-;
Shadoweh you're physically hurting me here by saying my play is scummier than BT's. It's more that BT has played a really good game regardless of his alignment here.
For Day 3, the choice of whether or not to lynch Zak was up to Shadoweh instead of anyone else. It would be similar to huhwhat arguing for Shadoweh's lynch in that kingmaker game.
As for D1, well, read my interactions between CF7 and Zak and conclude if you think the best way for me to defuse a wagon on my scumbuddy was to attacking the scumbuddy bussing him to get him off onto another wagon which I wouldn't end up supporting anyways.
REMEMBER THAT TIME YOU TOLD ME I WAS SCUMMY FOR SAYING THE SCUM WAS SCUM AND VOTED ME. >:< AND THEN YOU LAUGHED AT ME FOR IT
holy crap stop posting okay. This is why I feel guilty every time I look at you as scummy (and for once you backed it up with reasons why your play is decent :V) When huh what did that he was uh, definitely trying to superbus me. I don't think BT had quite the push as he did. As for Day 1, I didn't actually remember you attacking Zak so I'm going to read it <_< I'm posting this now so there's someone besides Conqueror on this page.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 03:58:39 AM
I supose moving off of Zak to jump onto me instead of Serela at that point isn't very bus happy. Meanwhile BT wasn't there for most of Day 1 due to inactivity, which isn't his fault but could explain him never having time to move away from his comfy wagon spot. I just don't know at this point.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 04:01:09 AM
Actually I do know that I think BT's activity has been dropping off and I just don't want to commit to being wrong. A kitten told me once that attacking the scum that isn't being wagoned over the scum that's open for free bussing is a towntell. So it's probably not Conq.

##Vote: BT

Note to others: Do not vote for Conq, he will be lynched at 2 votes instead of 3, if you want to lynch him instead just state intent.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 20, 2014, 04:04:36 AM
I could vote for BT because I don't like his performance post day 1, but I can't fathom why Zak made a case on him day 2.  Like this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080336.html#msg1080336) kind of thing, only to be replaced by a Serela vote as soon as Conq makes a case. 

Re-ISO time I guess. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 04:08:01 AM
What does BT's vote on Bardiche have to do with anything ?_?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 04:12:28 AM
As much as I think it's BT and not Bard or someone else, I'd rather wait to make a firm decision until I can reread this game with a calm mind tomorrow since I'm a bit on edge right now. Plus BT's responses etc etc.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 04:12:54 AM
Plus I hate being wrong. Almost as much as I hate being lynched.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 04:15:32 AM
I don't know what Sky meant to point out by BT's Bard vote but in light of everything it looks like an easy momentum-driven push towards the person who was looking most likely to be lynched that day.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 20, 2014, 04:23:57 AM
Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078769.html#msg1078769) BT is supporting Kingault/Oarfish.  Actually, he's been supporting King for quite some time, until Oarfish actually relies on him for it. 
BT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079023.html#msg1079023) puts out a pretty decent content post at that time, simultaneously questioning Oarfish and Zak.  He finishes it with a dismantling (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079039.html#msg1079039) of Oarfish. 
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079061.html#msg1079061) post is full of effort and genuine questioning of Zak's intent.  He also picks up some things that I don't think scum would notice, like 'he doesn't review CF7's newer posts and doesn't revote from Serela to CF7'. 
Zak shenanigans finishing with his death...BT's been chasing Zak for a long time.  It's not your average bus.  He was on a hunt.  Town imo. 

What was bad about the Bard vote was that he didn't put a reason for it and just sheeped somebody (me), then as soon an actual claim appeared sheeped on to Serela.  After BT worked so hard it seems strange for him to flip around like that.  That said, he was suspecting Bard also on day 4, so.  Maybe that's why. 

We haven't seen anything from BT yet today but I'm hard pressed to vote for him now.  Conq looks like he is trying hard.  I keep coming back to Bard vs Conq. 

I don't know what to think about Shadoweh changing her results because of confuse!Dormio.  Conq, you said something about getting strange messages back too, right?  If so, that probably checks out. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 04:32:26 AM
Actually, that does remind me of something, although this is getting dangerously close to modgaming. Shadoweh, you said that Dormio linked you to a troll video when you asked him about your result? Did you ask him if you were roleblocked? I mean otherwise I assume you would have just gotten a normal result wrt your watch as in "no one visited etc."

Dormio sent me amusing messages in response to me asking about where my day effects were.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 04:37:11 AM
BT had been suspecting Bard for all of the previous day before the Bard vote (and he made posts to that effect), so it's not an unexpected vote. I think it's an opportunistic one though.

The thing about a bus from BT is that I'd expect it to be thorough, not half-assed. It's why I read him as town all game, actually. I'll need to go over it again though like I said. Maybe I'll go meta digging.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 04:53:52 AM
Actually, that does remind me of something, although this is getting dangerously close to modgaming. Shadoweh, you said that Dormio linked you to a troll video when you asked him about your result? Did you ask him if you were roleblocked? I mean otherwise I assume you would have just gotten a normal result wrt your watch as in "no one visited etc."

Dormio sent me amusing messages in response to me asking about where my day effects were.
I assumed I would just have gotten a normal result too, hence thinking I was roleblocked. I'd rather not spell out my mod communications but I didn't ask for clarification until today. Frankly I was happier thinking that my watch was roleblocked and that it didn't matter who I targetted. <_<
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 20, 2014, 06:24:54 AM
Votecount
BT (1): Shadoweh
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: Conqueror, Sky Paladin, BT, Bardiche

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~67.5 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 08:40:08 AM
Wtf let me post. I'm in classes for a while. Wait warmly.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 10:09:07 AM
It's just one vote, don't be a baby.
It's not like I can stay awake longer then two seconds to put one down anyways.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 11:50:45 AM
Well it's not like I'm not giving any weight to this day phase. I'm assuming Serela was town and there's no ITP, and even then we have a chance of losing with a mislynch and misfire. Not taking my chances.

Anywho, SkyPal's Dan kill is a pretty big gamble if he's scum or ITP, since even if he's aware of the cred he gets from getting rid of a "mislynch"... eh, I guess I'd just rather think it's not worth it in most if not all cases. The initial "I didn't know who out of Bard/Conq/BT were scum so I just shot the mislynch" just seems really town to me okay? Okay.

I'm also pretty sure Conq is town since the early hated claim strongly implies that he's actually hated. He could be hated dreaming scum, but in that case the scumteam is comprised of a string of special kills, a backup (sort of an unstable wildcard) and a useless towncred role (sort of a nothing wildcard). It doesn't seem like a healthy setup at all and there's also how I actually think Conq is town this game based on play.

That leaves the two info roles, which make a lot more sense on the scumteam anyway. I'm pretty certain Shadoweh, Bard and I aren't all on the same town. If I ever die, I'd probably advocate that SkyPal shoots Bard and not Shadoweh. Zak's apology to at the time Obvtown Shadoweh (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1080093.html#msg1080093) is strong enough for me to say that. If it weren't for that it would have been tough, since I'd say Bard is scum based on play and Shadoweh's scum based on roles (moreso than Bard - full elaboration on this to come if I'm actually lynched today).

I'll get to reading the last few pages now, but I'll probably be voting Bard today.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 11:53:56 AM
Oh, yeah, one preemptive question - Shadoweh, what made you think you were roleblocked?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 12:01:28 PM
There's also something I didn't mention - Bard's special restriction is pretty suspect, since it's fairly possible (and likey, based on information from flipped scum roles) the scumteam really CAN'T kill and use actions together and the restriction (along with Dan's death now) is meant to cover for that. I'm pretty sure Bard's a tracking neighbor, but that restriction, man.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 12:33:56 PM
Okay the roleblock thing is clearer now.

BT, explain again why you wanted CF7 lynched on D1? I reread the discussion and again the most I'm getting is "lacks initiative," so I'm wondering how you distinguished that from lazy!town CF7, if you were thinking that way. Also, why did you change your opinion on Zak?
First part: gladly. Second part is answered in the reply to SkyPal.

CF7 was bullshitting content. First, the "inquiry" was because I thought he was just going to sit there being snide and deflecting NNR's post without actually naming suspects, like, you know, he didn't care. It is something Raikaria does, but I often forget that even when I'm dealing with Raikaria, to be honest. This isn't Raikaria anyway. After that initial thing the vote turned serious because his suspicion of rawr was scummy, even when meta is concerned. He basically went for rawr because he "seemed weird" without looking at his posts thoroughly, a fact which shined through in his response. It's something weak-normal scum players try to take advantage of, except weak players won't know what to say when they're called out on it. So the vote there was because I thought he took advantage of rawr being weird and the whole thing was bullshit. Once it's clear it was a bad idea to go for rawr he just concludes that rawr looks town now and instead tries to take advantage of Kingault's weak vote on an advanced position on his wagon, not even having the guts to place his vote there lest people get even angrier at him. The whole thing just felt textbook scum.

By the way, unrelated, I still don't get it, what's so jarring to you about CF7 not claiming? People do that. It's a thing that happens. Specifically when they've given up and think there's literally no reason to humor anyone with a fakeclaim. The wagon was final when he showed up. He had no reason to claim. It would have been WEIRD to me HAD HE CLAIMED.

If I'm talking about the accusations of retarded scum play, I guess Zak wanted to preserve the extra kill thinking he wouldn't be lynched the next day or something. Hell if I know, Bard entered D4 with a bunch of other cases and Zak barely even arrived. The motivation was kind of lacking once it turned out Zak was actually being gunned for a lynch. If memory serves.

One last thing - why do you think Bard is town on play? I think he's scum on play. I never made the complete case, so I guess I'll try doing that today.

What was bad about the Bard vote was that he didn't put a reason for it and just sheeped somebody (me), then as soon an actual claim appeared sheeped on to Serela.  After BT worked so hard it seems strange for him to flip around like that.  That said, he was suspecting Bard also on day 4, so.  Maybe that's why. 
Yes, that is why. >_> I thought it was Bard and Zak for a while and my scumread on Bard was even stronger than the one on Zak until Zak decided to claim foregoing the extra shot he had and some other things, plus people wanted to lynch Zak first. I quicklynch when I'm sure of my choice. I thought the game was going to end yesterday, except Conq showed up with what I thought was a really good case and roleshens supported Bard being town, so I just defected in a flash. Interesting note - that roleshen reasoning is dead now since Shadoweh could be the justification behind the ninja kill, not Bard. Works the other way around too, but I think it's Bard.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 12:49:00 PM
This is kind of useless, but Bard would probably be a scum tracker, not a scum rolecop, since he would've decided it a good idea to claim tracker after copping Shadoweh as self-watcher. Not solid, but this isn't important anyway. Just for setup power play, since tracker would be much weaker, especially when Sacchi existed, but hey.

My answer about "why'd you change your mind on Zak" wasn't complete so I'll complete it - I did think he was town, except I was starting to collect a bunch of townreads and his case on me felt kind of off (by the way, I'm pretty sure the way I took apart his case later is a strong point in my favor, if anyone's looking for those) (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079071.html#msg1079071) so I decided to read him and that's when I made the "I still think his play is town but look at these connections" case. I still wasn't sure, but it was still my best suspicion behind Bard. Then Zak claimed and I decided he was just going to be scum and that was that.

Uh, what else do I have to say about myself? I guess I'm kind of annoyed with people suddenly saying how they're unhappy with my play/activity. I could have been more invested, but I thought I contributed my fair share in this game, plus I lynched the scum. This isn't really a defense, it just kind of annoyed me hearing it.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 20, 2014, 12:59:43 PM
I'm too busy to post a full post right now but I think;
There's no requirement for a watcher and a tracker, even if they are conditional.  So I think it's actually 1 v 1 Shadoweh/Bard. 

Bard didn't present a useful track result all game, but Shadoweh was able to town clear Hikaru who independently got towncleared by me when I was upgraded. 

More to come. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 20, 2014, 01:01:50 PM
I meant to say, "I thought Bard's condition was 'Ability lost of NNR dies' " but he just claimed a check on Dan. 

I'm struggling to think of a realistic restriction that would allow this. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 01:05:08 PM
Yeah, there's also that. Shadoweh's been an all-around Town Shadoweh all game with all its glory. I'm not sure why I'm not just voting Bard right now. Maybe to force me to make that case so my vote goes with the case. It is a mystery.

CUT: Restrictions are various and endless, but I still don't know a lot of plausible restrictions that give you sporadic role use and don't let you claim them.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 01:24:35 PM
Oh, yeah, one preemptive question - Shadoweh, what made you think you were roleblocked?
I dunno, what would you think? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaoySOGlZ_U)
I don't know how a Self-Watcher and a Conditional Tracker could possibly be counterclaims to each other. I think you're grasping too hard at roleclears.
I think it would be weird if there was a ninja solely so I couldn't watch the scum as they murder me. It's not like I could be doc'd and survive, our doc was a JK.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 01:46:59 PM
You're blinding yourself if you think this isn't par for the course with me or if you think I'm grasping at anything. I know what I want and I know what I'm saying. It's still okay for thete to be a janitor just in case, though I agree that it's weaker. What intetests me more is what Bard claimed his ability is? Abnormal? This is hard with a phone. Didn't someone say they had something special that isn't a minus and isn't abnormal?

Also something I remembered I have to check is who SB claimed to JK when and what Bard claimed happened to his action each cycle. A note to self.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 01:54:49 PM
Oh, the grasping is at Sky P for saying me and Bard are in a 1 vs 1.
Conqueror said he has a Not Equal. Incidentally, my action is General.
Bard claimed Abnormal. SB claimed to have roleblocked Bard Day 3. We have no idea who his last night JK is, other then not me and not Bard. (I bet it was Dan)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 02:04:30 PM
D3? All that matters to me is whether it's the same night Zak said he used Oar's role or not. I think so, in which case Bard might be clear. I hope the world isn't broken.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 20, 2014, 03:47:46 PM
Zak interactions are few. At least from Zak's side, which I'm focusing on.

Zak with BT is the case on BT during Day 2. This comes after Zak's admission that he has a hard time pushing people as Scum due to not bothering to find out alignments much. The interesting part is that Zak in his next post drops the case, citing his reads on BT being somewhat reversed. "Reversed enough" not to be a priority. He has this case he is perfectly willing to drop without expounding much on the why.

And that's it. His connections to Conq are lacklustre (explaining scum playstyle a bit and other pleasantries), and his connections to Shadoweh and Sky Paladin are non-existent.

A case of Bard!Scum on roles alone is absurd. How am I supposed to defend from speculation about my role and the setup? A case of Bard!Scum based on play assumes I neglected to bus CF7 on Day 1 and instead stuck out my neck by not jumping on the easy case, and that on Day 2 I went hard against my neighbour and argued with him for the sake of saving a Townie when I could've as well latched on. I don't consider hopping onto someone's wagon favourable. The only one of who I'm sure is making a 100% Townie-motivated Day 1 case is myself. Therefore, the best odds of catching scum are by following my own suspicions. And I stand by that I didn't think of CF7 as true blue Scum because the way he behaved was so stupidly retarded it just made no sense.

Zak claimed to have used O4rfish's power on the Night after O4rfish's death. O4rfish got himself Modkilled on Day 2, so Zak said he used it on (skipping N2/D3 due to Conq) N3.

I admit I'm feeling lost because I'm in that bogmire where everyone is Scum and yet not. I'm assuming Shadoweh is Town because I like to think so. GUT!! and self-targeting Scum is silly. I'm honestly looking for Scum between Conq and BT.

So what does a Scum!Conq benefit from the way he dealt with D5? Unless he was setting me up for a mislynch today or tomorrow and was supremely confident I would not/could not track him, I just don't see it. Like, he has literally no reason.

So there's Scum!BT. The rolefish (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1080000.html#msg1080000) here is something that's catching my eye now on a reverse ISO. I think it's significant, because a lone Scum in the current situation'd need as much info as he can. That Sacchi died on the following Night is significant, because it shows Scum was genuinely worried about the motivator. I postulate that Scum!BT was worried about the motivator powers, and since he's claimed Ascetic would be ineligible to ever receive one. Similarly I don't quite like his Day 5 performance given a promise of content (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080336.html#msg1080336), followed by another one (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080397.html#msg1080397). I'll grant that real life time exists and such, but.

He voted me:
Quote
? on: March 18, 2014, 05:04:44 pm ?
Then questioned me about my role use and lack of condition claim at:
Quote
? on: March 18, 2014, 08:27:04 pm ?
and continues to be posting until:
Quote
? on: March 18, 2014, 09:36:21 pm ?
After this, there is a gap until:
Quote
? on: March 19, 2014, 12:49:00 am ?
when he votes Serela with no previous mention of Serela that Day Phase. The significance I want to point out here is that between 5 PM and 8:25 PM, there was a lot of time for BT to have written a case. He chooses not to, but hangs around for an hour posting short posts without building a case of anything. Three hours later, he votes Serela instead. If BT is Town-aligned, then why did he not spend a moment of that time trying to point Town in the direction of Scum through arguments and such? My answer: BT isn't Town, and he didn't particularly care a lot who gets lynched. But he couldn't justify staying on a claimed Tracker.

In fact I hardly see BT mentioning Serela anywhere in the thread and I'm on Day 2 already. His vote on Serela seemed very laissez-faire and #YOLOFUCKIT #shotsfired #forthewin, so my suspicions are heavily on BT right now.

Another point of interest: The quicklynch of SkyPal (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078298.html#msg1078298). The content being so "scum-motivated" is an interesting point in the face of BT clearing SkyPal later. In this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079071.html#msg1079071) he even backpedals a bit from "up for quicklynch, content scum-motivated" to "I was afraid he was Town"; how does this work, suggesting quicklynches on people you're considering may be Town?

It just seems two extremes that I can't reconcile in my head.

##Vote: BT


The other considerations are:
Sky Paladin. This one is absurd to consider given Dan's kill.
Shadoweh. That assumes Scum picked up on my crumb and went #YOLO and ignored it. Too unlikely.
Conqueror. Assumes Scum!Conq thought it a brilliant idea to brush forward and get Town to lynch Serela instead of me, when he stood to gain a lot from my lynch (dead investigation role).

So yeah, I don't see any reasonable option other than BT. PoE is further aided by the scummy behaviour as outlined above.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 20, 2014, 04:12:13 PM
With regards to, "Bard's role (restriction) can't be true!"

You're proposing that Ninja Kill is put in specifically to prevent Shadoweh from seeing who kills her, unless the stars align and a) Sacchi targeted Shadoweh and b) Shadoweh correctly guessed the night kill afterwards and c) Scum actually use the ninja kill there. Shadoweh saying her power is a "General" means no one can inherit so basically the only situation in which a ninja kill would be useful according to your argument is if the above scenario happens and the stars align.

How about instead of gaming the setup you play the game and look over my case on BT, consider its points, and/or make a case on someone else instead?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 20, 2014, 05:00:24 PM
I won't have a chance to go back and recheck everybody's ability and what they said they did until around twenty hours from now, which is a bit late in the phase.  If somebody else could do it that would be great. 

Some minor points;

Shadoweh should have known that she wasn't sabotaged last night, or the night before.  When Hikaru targeted me for the upgrade, there was a special proviso:  The upgrade was only available for that day phase and that night phase, meaning I don't have a shot available tonight.  This means that Shadoweh would only have had her regular abilities night 5 and night 4.  Please cross check :/

It also means SB didn't jail Shadoweh, and probably put Serela in the clink.  Alas. 

Night kill analysis:
Bard never crumbed in advance who he was tracking/if his track was available.  This makes it impossible to verify his claim really, except for the night 1 business with Shadoweh.  Bard, can you do a track tonight?  I know you can't outright state the restrictions, but perhaps you can give us enough that we can guess the sequence. 

I would have expected a hit on Bard or Shadoweh before Hikaru, because those are the two roles that have the ability to detect and catch a scum.  Scum would have known that Conqueror's dream hadn't been the cause of my upgrade because Dan didn't get an upgrade too, so would have known that Hikaru hadn't buffed Shadoweh, so her long distance watching was not available. 

So, why not Bard? 
1 - Scums considered confirmed town a higher kill priority than a tracker that could find and kill them (I think this is very unlikely with two more night phases before LYLO). 
2 - Scums suspected Shadoweh was somehow still watching Bard and couldn't risk the hit (plausible). 
3 - Bard is actually scum. 
4 - Scums considered the danger of Hikaru randomly upgrading players was too powerful to ignore OR Hikaru had stopped upgrading scum!Shadoweh so his lifespan had been used up. 

***

So, why not Shadoweh?
I speculated in my lonely vanilla town quicktopic that Shadoweh or Bard should have been last night's hits.  After Hikaru, Shadoweh was the next best guess for town, because she knew about Hikaru's power but didn't kill him off right away.  Also, scums would have to consider that Shadoweh's lynch of Zak was pretty much a big gold super town clear, except for the scenario of scum!Shadoweh ultrabussing her buddy. 
If they knew that town!Shadoweh couldn't watch, they could risk hitting somebody other than her.  Otherwise, she was too bigger priority target to ignore (other than Bard). 
Ignoring both Bard and Shadoweh kind of suggests, to me, that one of them is scum...unless...they assumed Hikaru had given me the upgrade (which he did) and that there was no Watcher.  In that case they could get the shot off on Hikaru risk free. 
So Shadoweh wasn't hit because...
1 - They considered a confirmed town (Hikaru) as a higher priority target (unlikely with 2 days before LYLO). 
2 - They knew last night was their window to kill off a valuable power role (likely). 
3 - Shadoweh is the scum. 

On the balance of things, I have to consider Shadoweh as town, mainly because she did execute Zak when she very plausibly could have executed Dan and gotten clean away with it. 

For why not BT/Conqueror, it's largely the same argument.  Neither have high evidence gathering roles so they aren't a priority target.  And as for me, they didn't know what my upgrade was or even if I would use it effectively. 
So it's just a 1- there was a higher priority target/there was a scum. 

***

What I want when I wake up is a list of who took what action so we can try and look for some kind of hole, if there is one.  Scum probably have to shoot me tonight leaving you with three and LYLO. 
Its 2 am I gotta go to bed. 

Cut by: 
Nice case Bard.  I'll reread it when I'm awake. 





Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 05:40:46 PM
I was upgraded on Night 3, meaning I had my better ability Night 4, geez.
You're making your case under the assumption scum knew what my role was when I never claimed it until toDay. >_> I'm p sure people thought I was a Rolecop before, and everyone's been trueclaiming, which doesn't make that very good at finding scum. If BT is scum he'd be immune.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 07:29:39 PM
No one hammer. BT, did you ever fullclaim?

BT's flail posting right now just really seems similar to what I was doing earlier in the day.

I think the point on BT not making a case in the span of 3 hours is a bit silly. Sometimes I stay away from posting in mafia all day because either I don't have the time to fully commit to a full case or I just don't feel like posting in mafia. The rest of the case contains points I've been musing over and I'm still thinking about them.

As for why I find CF7 not claiming to be weird: I tend to assume a minimum competence for scum play. Clearly I was wrong.

Reasons why I found Bard town on play will be coming once I reread Bard.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 07:36:13 PM
I'd also kinda expect scum!BT to be pushing full force for my lynch right now.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 20, 2014, 08:03:14 PM
Votecount
BT (2): Shadoweh, Bardiche
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: Conqueror, Sky Paladin, BT

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~54 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 08:11:37 PM
I was going to make a post saying I'm still considering my course of action but I just realized something, so I'll be placing my vote now.

##Vote Bardiche

I wanted to do a full unbiased reread of the thread and compile full summaries of everyone's play instead of focusing on Bard, but that's mostly because there was a pretty big obstacle in the way - yeah, the Ninja Kill is still there, but I figure it's there both for the optional watcher and the optional backup tracker via rawr. No, what bothered me was SB's action to JK Bard on N3, since there was no reason for Zak to claim to have used Oar's role on SB if it didn't actually happen, meaning the last scum took the NK and succeeded, killing NNR.

Except there WAS a reason.

Zak was going to claim a backup role with access to both CF7's and Oar's action, except he was doing the NK so no such action was performed. His only available excuse when it came his time to claim was that he used Oar's action, because the other option was using CF7's action, though he chose neither because he was doing the NK.

The question is - why take the NK when you could just use the extra kill while the other scum uses the NK? I'm... not sure. I'm really not sure. But it at least doesn't seem as bizarre as I thought. I'm confident enough in my reads to overlook it. ACTUALLY, thinking about it more, I'm confident enough that this DID, IN FACT, happen, since why else would Zak use Oar's role over the extra nightkill? They wanted the other scum to use their action, for whatever reason.

CUT: you missed Bard's vote.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 20, 2014, 08:13:39 PM
CUT: you missed Bard's vote.
You can't prove that.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 08:17:30 PM
No one hammer. BT, did you ever fullclaim?
I claimed Tokemichi Choujabaru, The Judge. I claimed to be "an ascetic". I'm going to say it now - I would have probably said "Ascetic" in my second post in the game or "The Judge(Ascetic)" when I fullclaimed earlier, but there's more to it than that. I'm still mulling over whether I should reveal it or not. I'll reach a decision by the end of the day.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 20, 2014, 08:56:18 PM
Quote
The question is - why take the NK when you could just use the extra kill while the other scum uses the NK?

What extra kill? Did I miss something?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 09:01:17 PM
...The one that was mentioned in the thread a couple times, the one CF7 kill that had no added affect. I'm going to zoom through your posts to see if you seriously missed it. >_>

Or maybe you missed it as scum and THAT'S why N3 happened. But that's ridiculous since it implies the entire team didn't think to clarify their own roles so let's say no.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 09:02:38 PM
So what you're saying is, SB, that you asked Dormio if one of the kill abilities in CF7's flip indicated that Scum had an extra kill? And Dormio confirmed this to be true?
I asked him what the second ability was and he said it was a vig shot, or something like that. idr the exact conversation.
:o
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 20, 2014, 09:03:47 PM
I asked Dormio about that while you were busy slamming me for "minutae", and he said "maybe".

Quote
<REDACTED> (General): <REDACTED>
Remodeling (Abnormality): Your abnormality allows you to remodel others, or even yourself, to gain new abilities or enhance existing ones. Lately the introduction of all these minuses have caused you to remodel yourself so that you possess one yourself, but you certainly wouldn't mind having more. Every time a player with a minus is killed, you will experiment on their corpse until you figure out how their minus works so that you can take it for yourself.
Ice Fire (Minus): Ice Fire is the first minus you've gained by remodelling yourself. During the night, you may use your control over ice and fire to kill a player of your choice. You may not use this ability in conjunction with any of your other abilities. <REDACTED>

This is Zak's flip. Are you going to say Zak also had an additional night kill in his role PM.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 09:07:59 PM
Zak absorbed CF7's ability to make colorful kills. We were talking about the absurdity of scum not using the extra kill on N3. I'm pretty sure you were one of the people who said scum had some retarded plays in this game.

I'm not slamming you just for minutae because I'm not done slamming you just yet. In fact, have a quote wall I was going to post before this distraction:

Zak interactions are few. At least from Zak's side, which I'm focusing on.
Bad practice. You're missing out on a lot of implausible scumbuddy interactions by looking at less than 10% of them.

Zak with BT is the case on BT during Day 2. This comes after Zak's admission that he has a hard time pushing people as Scum due to not bothering to find out alignments much. The interesting part is that Zak in his next post drops the case, citing his reads on BT being somewhat reversed. "Reversed enough" not to be a priority. He has this case he is perfectly willing to drop without expounding much on the why.
I gave him the equivalent of a boot to the face with my response to the case and he proceeded to bugger off. What does this tell us except I felt like grilling my supposed scumbuddy and undermining their only serious case?

And that's it. His connections to Conq are lacklustre (explaining scum playstyle a bit and other pleasantries), and his connections to Shadoweh and Sky Paladin are non-existent.
Shadoweh's connections to Zakeri, Conq's connections to Zakeri, SpyPal's connections to Zakeri and my connections to Zakeri, on the other hand, sure do exist.

A case of Bard!Scum on roles alone is absurd. How am I supposed to defend from speculation about my role and the setup? A case of Bard!Scum based on play assumes I neglected to bus CF7 on Day 1 and instead stuck out my neck by not jumping on the easy case, and that on Day 2 I went hard against my neighbour and argued with him for the sake of saving a Townie when I could've as well latched on.
The other version: you try pushing substandard Serela in hopes that it'll take off in place of the CF7 wagon which will wither and roll over due to lack of content. Didn't happen, shoot, what'cha gonna do. You didn't stick out your neck that much - you just gave the occasional "CF7's probably still a newbie wagon, it's easy, the wagon's bad" line without addressing CF7 or the people on the wagon while clamping on Serela like nothing else was nearly as important. A case on Scum Bard sure does have this in it.

Yeah, you defended SkyPal, so? What's the groudbreaking news there?

And I stand by that I didn't think of CF7 as true blue Scum because the way he behaved was so stupidly retarded it just made no sense.
You know who else behaved stupidly retarded? Kingault. Didn't stop you from grilling him while passing CF7 over some simple ED1 post. Stupid and retarded does not a mafioso make, anyway.

So there's Scum!BT. The rolefish (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1080000.html#msg1080000) here is something that's catching my eye now on a reverse ISO. I think it's significant, because a lone Scum in the current situation'd need as much info as he can. That Sacchi died on the following Night is significant, because it shows Scum was genuinely worried about the motivator. I postulate that Scum!BT was worried about the motivator powers, and since he's claimed Ascetic would be ineligible to ever receive one.
You don't even bother seeing this thought process through to the end. Let's say I'm scum and I was concerned. What did I gain from knowing that it's temporary and not permanent? That only makes it less of an issue. The role query isn't actually significant to any of this and you're forcing meaning into it even though I plainly said it was out of curiosity. Townies get curious too. I'm sure it's in my meta somewhere.

The significance I want to point out here is that between 5 PM and 8:25 PM, there was a lot of time for BT to have written a case. He chooses not to, but hangs around for an hour posting short posts without building a case of anything. Three hours later, he votes Serela instead. If BT is Town-aligned, then why did he not spend a moment of that time trying to point Town in the direction of Scum through arguments and such? My answer: BT isn't Town, and he didn't particularly care a lot who gets lynched. But he couldn't justify staying on a claimed Tracker.
Oh man.

Dude did not play optimally.

The answer:

Not Town.

I "stayed on the claimed tracker" earlier than that too and I would have stayed on the claimed tracker it if I wasn't parcitipating in the discussion and thinking things through, but I guess that's not important. It's kind of a detriment to how you're trying to paint me, after all.

In fact I hardly see BT mentioning Serela anywhere in the thread and I'm on Day 2 already. His vote on Serela seemed very laissez-faire and #YOLOFUCKIT #shotsfired #forthewin, so my suspicions are heavily on BT right now.
This has never happened to BT ever, or any other player for that matter. Sheeping is the devil.

Another point of interest: The quicklynch of SkyPal (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078298.html#msg1078298). The content being so "scum-motivated" is an interesting point in the face of BT clearing SkyPal later. In this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079071.html#msg1079071) he even backpedals a bit from "up for quicklynch, content scum-motivated" to "I was afraid he was Town"; how does this work, suggesting quicklynches on people you're considering may be Town?
You're actually taking things out of chronological order. I thought his play was scummy but I was still doubtful. Then came the walls which I was convinced were too misguided to be town at the time, painting people scummy and flinging accusations left and right, reminiscent of Scum SkyPal, expert bullshitter. Then came the VT claim and I came to the conclusion that the whiteknights in the thread - you're in there - might be right.

How about instead of gaming the setup you play the game and look over my case on BT, consider its points, and/or make a case on someone else instead?
2/3 done. Analysis time.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 20, 2014, 09:14:15 PM
Let's look at the more sane way of reading flips:

Zak flipped with a power that allows him to kill.
CF7 flipped with four powers that allowed him to kill.
The wording on both is "you may use this power on a player to kill them". CF7's ability only has an extra "you regain use of this ability after you've used all other ones", but all his kill powers do.
CONCLUSION: The Scum Nightkill isn't a factional ability but a power each of the Scum have that they can use. Since both scum PMs include: "you may not use this in conjunction with other abilities", we can therefore safely assume that Scum CANNOT kill and use a power role in the same night.
ADDENDUM CONCLUSION: Both kill abilities are incredibly similarly worded. There is no reason to assume one is an additional night kill and the other is not, aside from arbitrariness.



Cut by BT being passive aggressive. "Oh no, Bard made a case on me, TIME TO BE PASSIVE AGGRESSIVE". I swear, MOTK people just can't handle playing Mafia.

Requesting modkill, I'm out of this shit.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 09:18:57 PM
Stop being dumb. It's not like people don't occasionally get passive aggressive in mafia. If it makes you feel any better, I'm not happy about it. This game doesn't need another modkill, seriously.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 09:20:38 PM
In fact, the post isn't even that bad.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 20, 2014, 09:23:59 PM
I'm not playing Mafia so you people can go throw hissy fits any time I vote people. I want to play a game of Mafia, not deal with passive-aggressive bullshit any time I do. I think it's a shitty attitude to take being voted as some personal attack that warrants passive-aggressive nonsense, and I'm having none of it. I'd rather lose and exit, and you can deal with another Day phase of this crap on your own.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 09:27:17 PM
My god. Both of you step away from the thread for a little while. Bard, stay in the game.

I have no idea what this argument about the extra nightkills is going on about. We can assume SB was telling the truth about one of CF7's abilities giving an extra nightkill, although I'll ask Dormio just to be sure.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 09:29:12 PM
This entire role business feels too sloppy to come from a scum Bard. And both of you tone it down a bit.

I'm going to go reread Shadoweh again. Not watching SB on the night THE JAILKEEPER DIED just feels all around unlikely to me. I mean god, SB was basically a fullcop at that stage.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 09:32:59 PM
@mod
Quote
Your minus, Raff-Rafflesia Twisted Version Type「Bondage」, allows you to defile the very earth and shape it to your liking. During the night you may use this minus to trap a player of your choice and kill them. You may only use this ability once. You may not use this ability in conjunction with any of your other abilities. You will regain the use of this ability once if you have used every ability at your disposal.
Does this ability do anything other than the ability to kill a player of the person's choice? Would it be possible for this ability to be used alongside a kill from another mafia team member?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 09:37:53 PM
I had assumed that Zak's kill ability that flipped in his role pm was part of his original pm, although it's possible that his role pm changed to include it after CF7 died.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 09:40:09 PM
Bard or Serela are really the prime suspects imo. I don't even suspect Dan anymore because his hanging around comments were all 'lynch Zak plz'
Curious, why did you think Bard was a prime suspect yesterday? The posts before that pretty much showed that you thought Bard was town.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 20, 2014, 10:27:27 PM
@mod Does this ability do anything other than the ability to kill a player of the person's choice? Would it be possible for this ability to be used alongside a kill from another mafia team member?
If it did anything other than killing the target of the player's choice, it would be stated explicitly in the description.
Maybe.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 10:44:05 PM
Bard, considering the part where you got mad at Serela for taking your attacks on him as personal attacks, please don't be hypocritical and take someone who thinks you're scum/is scum trying to lynch you as someone personally attacking you.

I just got in the door going to read BT flail etc
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 11:12:17 PM
Zak claimed to do alot of things. If we're going with the idea that Bardiche was scum with Zakeri, it would mean Zak performed his vig shot on NNR and Bardiche was blocked on the kill, on N3. This would imply that somehow Zak decided not to use an extra kill on Night 1 and the scum team thought rolecopping/tracking me was more important then sweet double murders. We still have no guarentee it's an extra kill at all though. I rather suspect Zakeri was just the one going on the kills. One would think he would pick better targets with the nightkill powers he had at his disposal, considering if not the extra, it means he used the ninja/strongarm.

Conq: I thought Serela was pretty damn town too and I was still considering supporting a wagon on him yesterDay. I'm p sure I said we should lynch between them even. And screw you for trying to frame not picking someone you have no guarentee is actually town and who isn't a cop as the 100% only target considering I had night-action proof that Bard was likely an investigative role.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 11:15:46 PM
Conq: I thought Serela was pretty damn town too and I was still considering supporting a wagon on him yesterDay. I'm p sure I said we should lynch between them even. And screw you for trying to frame not picking someone you have no guarentee is actually town and who isn't a cop as the 100% only target considering I had night-action proof that Bard was likely an investigative role.
I just think it's weird. I can't help this, this game is confusing and I've had varying town reads on everyone here right now throughout the game.
Reading back though I can't find anything actually wrong with Shadoweh's play. There's a bit of a drop off after the D1 scum lynch but that would be expected from Shadoweh!town in that position. Her D1 reaction to me trying to wagon her still feels genuine. And there's the resistance to the Sky wagon on D2. It could be a repeat of Chaore white knighting Bob in Shadoweh's functional vanilla game but she hasn't gone back on it.

BT, you should probably fullclaim.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 20, 2014, 11:16:06 PM
Bard holy crap man.  People make cases on each other all the time, some of them for great reasons, some of them for wrong reasons.  Go back and read day 2 where I had to endure NNR's bad case and then being mod counter claimed.  I mean I wasn't even claiming against you today, I was just putting some thoughts in the thread because I'm busy for a big chunk of this phase and I just want to put anything out that helps people to think. 

Nobody reported anything about what was done, guys...

Shadoweh, you checked yourself n1 yeah?  You saw Hikaru and Bard.  Night 2 skipped. Night 3?  Night 4?  Night 5?
SB jailed Sky n1, Bard n3, ??? night 4
Bard tracked Shadoweh n1, n2 skip, n3 ???, n4 ???, n5 Dan why. 

***

Guys all of CF7's abilities say 'this is a scum kill' and 'you cant use this ability and any other ability'.  This is nothing new.  bonus scum kills always have some kind of 'cannot place factional kill and this kill' constraints.  The issue of why Zak didn't use his CF7 copy:
"Remodeling (Abnormality): Your abnormality allows you to remodel others, or even yourself, to gain new abilities or enhance existing ones. Lately the introduction of all these minuses have caused you to remodel yourself so that you possess one yourself, but you certainly wouldn't mind having more. Every time a player with a minus is killed, you will experiment on their corpse until you figure out how their minus works so that you can take it for yourself."

I think means 'can copy from nightkill only' and can't be used on lynch.  Note lack of 'cant use this ability and make a hit that night'. 

***

Shadoweh I appreciate that you may think my ideas are bad or dumb, but at least I am trying to solve this mess.  We won't get a result by making a decision then arguing about it afterwards.  I'm convinced theres' enough information in thread, we can go backand check the roles, I'm just so dam nbusy today.

Gotta go to work :C
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 11:19:19 PM
It would actually be helpful if everyone reclaimed all their night actions/abilities. The info is scattered throughout the thread and it's just easier to have it out in the open, plus a lot of the claims came out piecemeal.

I don't have any night abilities. I only have the hated modifier and the dreaming god ability, both of which are Not Equals. For the dreaming god, I sent in an ordered list during confirmation. No actions since then.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 11:21:41 PM
*by drop off I don't mean in terms of physical posts since she actually posts more after D1. I dunno, it's just a feeling thing. :v Probably because this game had way too many posts in general.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 11:24:41 PM
Shadoweh, you checked yourself n1 yeah?  You saw Hikaru and Bard.  Night 2 skipped. Night 3?  Night 4?  Night 5?
SB jailed Sky n1, Bard n3, ??? night 4
Bard tracked Shadoweh n1, n2 skip, n3 ???, n4 ???, n5 Dan why. 
If you're going to ask why Bard tracked Dan, one has to ask why you thought he was scummy enough to shoot too :p

N1: Sacchi and Bard target me. N2: I COULD HAVE BEEN SPECIAL N3: Sacchi targets me N4: No one targetted Bard N5: No one targetted me
N1: Bard tracks me, sees me target myself N2: skip N3: Roleblawked N4: Tracks Sky P fails due to ??? N5: Tracks Dan, Dan went to heaven.
The SB actions are correct. BT however says he has something unclaimed.

Also:
Day 1: Nothing, Day2: Conq causes Weird day/night block that skips Day 3. Day 4: Conq causes Kingmaker. Day 5: ??? Day 6: ???
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 11:28:44 PM
Oh, right, those. To clarify: D1, D5, and D6 have been blanks.
D2 was N2 skip.
D3 was D3 skip.
D4 was kingmaker.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 11:30:25 PM
Eh fuckit, I don't think I'll be on the wrong end of a bullet if I survive the day anyway and I just lost a big chunk of my motivation.

I'm actually The Judge(Untargetable). I claimed ascetic because I'm immune to non-killing abilities. I'm also immune to killing abilities, but I saw no reason to spoil that surprise.

I was actually musing about my play on D2 for reasons I won't delve into, so this is fresh in my mind.
This is me referring to how on D2 I was a little annoyed at my inability to control obvtown-being-ness, which made me want to analyze my own play. Annoyed because I had a death wish and wanted to be shot.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 11:31:47 PM
I mentioned this in one of my posts earlier today, why Shadoweh is scum based on roles. Because the town would have three protective roles... sort of. It's iffy but it's there.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 20, 2014, 11:33:35 PM
Votecount
BT (2): Shadoweh, Bardiche
Bardiche (1): BT
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):

Not voting: Conqueror, Sky Paladin

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~50.5 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 11:35:48 PM
This, by the way, is probably a strong justification for why Dan's role is in the game at all. Think what happens if the strongman kill offs my role and onto rawr's, which also happens to absorb the voteblocker. It's like an automatic town win no matter what. It IS an automatic town win. So Dan's role fixed that.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 11:40:58 PM
Oh god, what. So your ability is an abnormality then?
Forgot to claim my character. Najimi Ajimu.
Shadoweh, did you ever claim your character?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 11:42:14 PM
*by drop off I don't mean in terms of physical posts since she actually posts more after D1. I dunno, it's just a feeling thing. :v Probably because this game had way too many posts in general.
I 'dropped off' a little after the Sky Paladin wagon changed to Oarfish because arguing with people about Sacchi's action that I didn't want to fullclaim and having their response be 'maybe vanilla townies explode on contact like Kuribohs' made me want to kill myself, and Kingault/Oarfish's slot was questionable enough that I was okay with the lynch. If you're going to ask why my posts dropped off on Kingmaker day when I literally didn't have to post anything but pictures of me playing checkers..

You're being super cheeky, you know. I Believe in Bardiche Town due to both his claim checking out and his reason for supporting Sky P town checking out with the condition he's claimed. If BT flips town I hope you finally kill me because I'm just going to auto-vote you tomorrow.

Cut: >_> You mean three PASSIVE roles, right. I don't consider mine protective. Also you are basically claiming Paperblade's role from Mirai Nikki. Being an investigation immune bp doesn't make me any less inclined to lynch you.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 11:43:29 PM
Oh god, what. So your ability is an abnormality then?
Forgot to claim my character. Najimi Ajimu.
Shadoweh, did you ever claim your character?
My character is Medaka Scrooge McDuck. We have a very loving and identical philosophy.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 11:46:12 PM
Oh god, what. So your ability is an abnormality then?
Yeah, I said so a few days ago.

You're being super cheeky, you know. I Believe in Bardiche Town due to both his claim checking out and his reason for supporting Sky P town checking out with the condition he's claimed.
Elaborate.

Cut: >_> You mean three PASSIVE roles, right. I don't consider mine protective. Also you are basically claiming Paperblade's role from Mirai Nikki. Being an investigation immune bp doesn't make me any less inclined to lynch you.
I consider watcher a protective role, though I said "sort of" because it's a butchered role if true. I thought a JK and BP were enough, so.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 11:51:00 PM
goddammit shadoweh im pretty sure that isn't from medaka box

Also, you're overreacting to me saying you dropped off. I've already said it was a side effect of everyone else posting way too much. I'm posting from the hip right now because I started to reread the entire mess and it was too much for me.

I can't help being cheeky, it's in my nature. I'm still not mafia though. I believe in Sky's D2 play coming from a town activated vt vig. And I believe in Bard's play being frustrated town, plus ninja/tracker etc. I really want to believe that you're town because then I can just hammer BT and end this fucking game. But you keep making these pokes at me. I mean, I know I'd be paranoid of me if I were in your situation. But I'm totally not as scheming as you're making me out to be.

I WANT TO BELIEVE SHADOWEH.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 20, 2014, 11:52:36 PM
Bardiche claimed that he had a condition that he couldn't claim for his ability, which is why he thought Sky had an ability he couldn't claim.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 11:54:03 PM
Part of my reluctance to ever not vote Bard is the frightening prospect of one of you two being scum. Seriously. SkyPal's not even in the running lest the world blows up.

CUT: Oh, right.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 20, 2014, 11:57:22 PM
Thinking it over again, I'm still confident that it's one of Bard and Shadoweh. If I'm not hammered overnight, I'll do my best to analyze those two tomorrow.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 20, 2014, 11:58:56 PM
I'm not overreacting. I am literally beyond reproach this game. I am going to start taking your attempts to throw shit at me as desperate scumclaims to find a crazy last lynch. I am your Townie Queen God and Master and you can kiss my obvtown scum-slaying-despite-your-best-efforts ass.

Watcher would be protective if I could do anything normally besides WATCH MYSELF DIE.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 12:03:50 AM
repository of claims:

abnormal backup
neighbor (abnormality)
jailkeeper 1x gov (minus)
role use limiter (abnormality)
motivator (minus)
some weird double effect role (minus)
voteblocker (abnormality)

jan/strongman/ninja (minus)
minus backup (abnormality)


self-watcher --> watcher(general)
tracker neighbor (abnormal)
vt --> vig (????)
untargetable (abnormal)
hated dreaming god (not equal)


I'm not overreacting. I am literally beyond reproach this game. I am going to start taking your attempts to throw shit at me as desperate scumclaims to find a crazy last lynch. I am your Townie Queen God and Master and you can kiss my obvtown scum-slaying-despite-your-best-efforts ass.
Okay. If my attempting to converse with you and get a townread on you is a desperate scumclaim, then move your vote off of BT and onto me. Seriously, Shadoweh, what the fuck.

Also, fullclaim your actual character because I want to flavour game Dormio's setup.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 12:09:56 AM
Also, on a serious note, Shadoweh. If I were scum I wouldn't have left you alive until LYLO just for the sake of trolling you. I make kills to control the flow of the game and push the narrative I want. In C7D I only tried pushing you as a mislynch because you forced the 1v1 with me; I was originally going to go for Schezo.

There are so many kills I would have done differently if I were scum here. The SB kill would be necessary for any scum, and the Sacchi kill is understandable even if I might have gone for Shadoweh in that situation. But killing NNR when he was tunneling uselessly isn't the sort of kill I'd make. I would have killed you that night, partially because you were townie, but more importantly NNR read me as town while you didn't.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 21, 2014, 12:11:07 AM
Let me spell it out for you: It was vitally important for the scumteam that Zakeri lived through Day 4. If Zakeri had lived, scum would have killed SB and Zakeri would have gotten his governor shot. With no known vigilante to counter this, Zakeri would have been guarenteed to waste at least one more day, removing attention from the fact that he was left alive in the first place, even if his vig shot didn't go through. I'm also the one who continued to press him to claim why he didn't vig, instead of saying we should resolve it the next day. Calling me scum at this point implies that as a scum player I'm a fucking idiot who can't plot out role connections. Which is obviously not true because I pointed out this possibly happening as one of the reasons I lynched Zak in the end.

You're looking for Mogana Kikaijima, the Swimming Miser. My power is based around how I spend all night watching my money. Because it's all about the benjamines baby.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 12:13:29 AM
Let me spell it out for you: It was vitally important for the scumteam that Zakeri lived through Day 4. If Zakeri had lived, scum would have killed SB and Zakeri would have gotten his governor shot. With no known vigilante to counter this, Zakeri would have been guarenteed to waste at least one more day, removing attention from the fact that he was left alive in the first place, even if his vig shot didn't go through.
Okay, you know you could have just said this earlier instead of passive aggressively telling me how scummy I was for doubting you.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 12:15:52 AM
the only person who suggested leaving Zak alive was Serela ftr
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 21, 2014, 12:16:41 AM
I will probably not wait for deadline but if the day is boring I might randomly lynch Serela someone.
Zakeri should probably come convince me who he's going to shoot that's worth risking leaving him alive when literally everyone wants him dead? Combined with the risk of leaving him alive to possibly inherit SB's power as scum (why did no one mention this btw?) Also Zak did crumb his role in his first post, like a good Zakeri. :>
>:<
That wasn't passive aggressive, that was outright hostility at the ridiculousness of the accusations piled against me today and realizing I have been too nice in letting them slide. I am TOWN and I'm not getting lynched out of weird role-based paranoia from anyone, you, BT or Sky included.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 12:21:26 AM
the ridiculousness of the accusations piled against me today and realizing I have been too nice in letting them slide. I am TOWN
This is all of my town games where I'm lynched.

Granted this game is mostly Attack of the PoE. I bet SB's laughing.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 12:22:24 AM
Almost started rereading Sky but then I realized I was considering that scum had an extra night kill that they decided to use on...Dan of all people.

I'll do one more reread of Bardiche.

BT, what do you think about Shadoweh's claim that she's obvtown via not letting Zak survive a day to govern himself?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 12:25:05 AM
BT, what do you think about Shadoweh's claim that she's obvtown via not letting Zak survive a day to govern himself?
She's probably right.

Like, yeah, pretty much that. My insistence on naming her with Bard as my choices is mostly because they're both info roles and your role would be hilarious on the scumteam. And I'm not touching SkyPal. He's town. Not listening.

What's your main gripe with not lynching Bard? I'm not feeling the Do Not Lynch vibes like you and Shadoweh (I think?) and I still don't really know why (it's not because I'm scum).
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 12:26:37 AM
It's not only that. I think a lot of her play is obvtown, including all of her interactions with Zak, though that's one of the things I wanted to make sure I'm right about later.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 21, 2014, 12:27:56 AM
Because Lynching Scum Isn't Enough(tm)

BT: I'm sorry I don't have much else to throw at you, other then a vague niggling at your posts. Sky P has been town to me for awhile (and isn't doing that thing where he votes anything that moves, A+), Bard is the yin to my yang, and Conq is playing with my heart strings probably still town?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 12:31:38 AM
What's your main gripe with not lynching Bard? I'm not feeling the Do Not Lynch vibes like you and Shadoweh (I think?) and I still don't really know why (it's not because I'm scum).
Seriously, I'll be extremely sad if I'm lynched and SkyPal dies and you two crossvote into submission and Bard scumhammers and leaves all the while requesting modkill. If I'm going down, at least I want to know what's going to happen on this front.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 21, 2014, 12:45:03 AM
If a Bard/Conq/Shadoweh LYLO happens I might hammer myself for the atrocity of it all.
As the scum's informational role, it wouldn't make sense for him to crumb his results, OR to out himself as more then a neighbour. Vanilla neighbour and then killing me since I wasn't inclined to tell on him was a viable strategy. It also doesn't make sense otherwise for him to randomly claim that thing about conditional abilities if he didn't believe it was a thing people had, similar to how Sky thought there were more vanilla townies.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 12:49:06 AM
He crumbed his results?

Don't see what's wrong with outing another portion of his role after a while. It's pretty neutral as far as I can tell.

He might actually have a conditional ability. Or it's just a creative solution for covering for the fact he can't use it with the night kill. Either way...
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 12:51:58 AM
Well, I'm pretty sure I don't think it's Shadoweh anymore.

I understood the general suspicion of Bardiche for the past few days. The CF7 hard defense, picking Zak as scum on the kingmaker day but only as second or third priority, picking at small details. There are just small things that make me think Bard is town. The killing of NNR N3 when Bardiche would know he was a neighbor. The frustration and defeatism on D5, although I guess that could technically go both ways it feels like something scum!Bard wouldn't do. The defense of Sky isn't as strong since if he was going to claim his conditional tracking ability later people would have questioned why he didn't think Sky also had an unclaimable ability, but scum was far enough behind on D2 already. Other stuff which I'm going to try and organize into another post when I finally finish up this Bardiche reread.

I don't understand the jist of your post #153. You're saying Bard is scum because Zak going on the NK means that the other scum used their role? Yeah, but how do we know that Zak went on the nightkill?

Counterpoint to a scum!Bard not crumbing his informational results: Bard did crumb a nightkill in Zombies. >_>
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 21, 2014, 12:55:14 AM
NNR and BT's votes on the wagon feel legit at least and I'd be unlikely to support anything against them, except a doc. Not sure about Shadimeh, who is ever a wildcard to me because her levels of effort vary wildly among games. I've been trying to get a read on her during the night but I'm still not sure. Reading posts is hard. My efforts are wasted. ;_;
It was in his first post that day even. :V
Conq: Zakeri had the Jack of all Kills powers and nothing else. Can you tell me why you think he wasn't going on the kill?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 21, 2014, 12:57:34 AM
Bard plz stop being modkilled and come actually defend yourself if you're not going to marry me I'm not going to be your white knightfu.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 01:01:48 AM
Conq: Zakeri had the Jack of all Kills powers and nothing else. Can you tell me why you think he wasn't going on the kill?
Well, if you put it that way :v. I meant more to ask BT why that would support Bard!scum though since if we look at it that way it's just logical for Zak to make the kill either way?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 01:02:38 AM
I don't understand the jist of your post #153. You're saying Bard is scum because Zak going on the NK means that the other scum used their role? Yeah, but how do we know that Zak went on the nightkill?
No no, basically, now I'm unsure, but I thought for sure scum had an extra nightkill and just neglected to use it. Meanwhile it appeared that Zak targeted SB with Oar's ability while Bard got JK'd by SB. The post you're talking about addresses an "obstacle", mainly, Bard can't be scum if he was blocked and Zak used his role and a scum nightkill connected on NNR. :V But I found a solution to both problems - why Zak neglected the extra kill and why Bard CAN be scum - that Zak was the one to take the kill. I guess my explanation was kind of backwards. It probably still is.

By the way, I'd argue that Bard shot NNR because he was being an annoying neighbor. Seriously. Like, fuck, the rawr kill wasn't any better. The defeatism in D5 I thought was a given since the game seemed pretty much settled.

It was in his first post that day even. :V
What, the 'get a read on her' thing? 3subtle5me, if that's even a crumb.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 21, 2014, 01:05:25 AM
Votecount
BT (2): Shadoweh, Bardiche
Bardiche (1): BT
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):

Not voting: Conqueror, Sky Paladin

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~49 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 21, 2014, 01:06:13 AM
"get a read on her during the night" plus his results being inconclusive (because I targetted myself) is pretty clear imo?
The only person who said Zak used Oarfish's role is Zakeri. I don't understand why this was ever taken seriously.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 01:08:05 AM
Because I took it at face value, since I saw no reason why Zak would constrict himself and risk being caught in a lie.

The reason was because, if he performed the kill, he had to claim SOMETHING and it couldn't have been a vig shot since there wasn't a kill to claim.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 01:09:50 AM
I'm going to go get dinner and after that I'm going to try and find some of Bardiche's scum games.

Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 21, 2014, 01:25:08 AM
##Unvote
Geez why can't you just be obvscum and make this easy. I supose we don't need to lynch this early and I'm starting to have doubts after this wallfest.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 21, 2014, 01:45:05 AM
But I found a solution to both problems - why Zak neglected the extra kill and why Bard CAN be scum - that Zak was the one to take the kill. I guess my explanation was kind of backwards. It probably still is.
Scum extra kill that was conveniently forgotten or foregone sounds too silly to me, I can't accept it.

Are we forgetting Zak went on to say, "whoops that was a lie i actually tried to vig SkyPal N1"?

I don't even know what to "defend" against. "Didn't join CF7 wagon", well no shit. GLaDOS didn't join a DiEnd wagon. I regularly don't jump onto D1 wagons I don't believe in. This isn't Scum!Bard. This is me being me. I honestly don't know what to say to the accusation of "you're being you".
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 21, 2014, 07:28:40 AM
Just trolololing past briefly, I've got 3 minutes. 

Town players dont say 'modkill plz', they use one of the many creative ways to modkill themselves, of which we have seen two examples in this very game.  You could also self vote I guess.  Anyway I'm not impressed by such theatrics.  Sigh gotta go. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 21, 2014, 07:36:44 AM
what I mean to say is
dont give up

if you have to quit

get a replacement. YOu dont need to kill your slot.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 21, 2014, 02:24:06 PM
OK back for a couple hours.  Let's dance some more. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 21, 2014, 02:57:13 PM
I still got lots of reading to do but day 1 reread is truly awful for Bard. 

At this stage I am voting Bard in my heart.  I will probably actually vote when I've finished my analysis. 

Key posts from day 1:
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077123.html#msg1077123) "Ascetics roleclaiming is null as far as I care."
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077304.html#msg1077304) I read this post as 'attempt to derail CF7 train'. 
Zak (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077310.html#msg1077310) Scum request for vig of BT. 
Conqueror (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077366.html#msg1077366) legit vote on Zak, no reason to counterwagon a scum buddy.  supports (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077411.html#msg1077411) his vote. 
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077569.html#msg1077569) not voting Zakeri when he really should have. 
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077578.html#msg1077578) over reacting. 
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077746.html#msg1077746) conspiciously avoiding CF7 and Zakeri, tunneling on Serela in spite of shenanigans. 
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077800.html#msg1077800) still no analysis of CF7, failed to follow up on great points on Zak. 
Conqueror (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077854.html#msg1077854) accidentally crumbing Dreaming God lol.

I see a lot of town clear posts from Conqueror, and a lot of scummy posts from Bard.  More to come. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 21, 2014, 04:42:51 PM
Lol @ Sky Pal saying "townies get themselves modkilled instead of requesting it". Sorry, I'm not making Dormio's life (especially) hard, so I'm not Town?

The Day 1 reread is filled with nonsense. I'm going to assume the wall of report actually means "I think this is scummy":
There's nothing wrong with reading an RVS ascetic claim as being null, as that's what it is. Immediately claiming Miller and/or Ascetic isn't indicative of alignment.
Page 4 does not a wagon make. I don't think anyone on the wagon at that time thought CF7 was seriously going to be the lynch of the day, and claiming I was attempting to "derail" the train takes out of context the timing. That's just slandering me for making a case at the end of RVS, and it's a terrible argument.
Whether I "should have" voted Zakeri or not is a nonsense argument again. I made clear what I thought was bad about Serela. Prodvoting Zakeri wasn't needed at that stage.
There's nothing scummy about being annoyed people can't be civil about having made a case on them. Brushing people's feelings aside as "theatrics" may be OK in your book, I think it's very unsympathetic.
"Conspicuously avoiding" is also a nonsense argument as I had made my feelings about CF7 abundantly clear and needed not rehash CF7's actions. It's not a tunnel when you're actively looking at other people as well and considering whether or not they are scum.

In fact, tunnelling in a Mafia game (http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Tunneling) doesn't mean what you think it does:
Quote
Tunneling is the act of focusing solely on one person to lynch, generally while ignoring the other players.
"While ignoring the other players" isn't a condition that's satisfied and continuous attempts to paint in negative light that I pushed hard for Serela is getting rather annoying. It'd be less annoying if it was scummy to do so but I think you guys are just severely exaggerating what happened because you're misguided on what "tunnelling" means. I've pointed out multiple times that I had clear opinions on others and paid attention to stuff outside Serela. I admit I prioritised Serela as I genuinely believed he was Scum, but having priorities doesn't mean you're tunnelling and ignoring everything else in the game.

This is entirely a playstyle argument.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 21, 2014, 04:43:14 PM
I appreciate what you did before, Conqueror, but it wasn't quite as in depth as I had hoped. 

1) Conqueror - Dreaming God etc
2) Serela - ??, vote blocker, modkilled day 5
3) Sky Paladin - Myouri Unzen, vanilla town/bonus vigilante
4) Dr Rawr - Medaka Kurokami, Little Princess(Abnormal Backup) was forcibly removed from the game Night 1!
5) Zakeri - Youka Naze, Black-White(Minus Backup) was evicted from the game Day 4!
6) NekoNekoRex - Hitomi Hitoyoshi, MILF(Neighbour) was forcibly removed from the game Night 3!
7) Shadoweh - Mogana Kikaijima, the Swimming Miser, Watcher.
) Sacchi Hikaru - Hansode Shiranui, Food Enthusiast(Motivator)
9) ActionDan - Kiruko Tachiarai, Sleeping Lazy(Lethargy)
10) CF7 - Mukae Emukae, Rainbow Rose Transfer Student(Jack of all Kills) was evicted from the game Day 1!
11) SB - Misogi Kumagawa, Defective Product(Falsifier) was forcibly removed from the game Night 4!
12) BT - Tokemichi Choujabaru, Abnormal action immune.
13) Bardiche - Zenkichi Hitoyoshi, Town Neighbour, and Town Conditional Tracker
14) O4rfish - Gagamaru Chougasaki, Unexpected Accident(Action Reflector), modkilled day 2

Claims and actions in chronological order (the order they were stated)
Day 1
BT claims Ascetic. 
Conqueror claims Hated. 
Serela claims Voteblocker. 
Serela uses Voteblocker (confirmed fail on BT). 
Day 2
Sky claims Vanilla. 
BT flavor claims Tokemichi Choujabaru, The Judge.
Oarfish claims Mimic action from self to other. 
SB claims Governor. 
Day 3/skip
Day 4
Conqueror claims Dreamer. 
ActionDan claims 'present receiver'.
Serela voteblock SB (confirmed). 
Shadoweh: States she knows Hikaru's role. 
Bardiche claims neighbour. 
ActionDan claims Lethargy. 
Zak claims Minus Backup: Claims copied actions targeting SB on night 3 and send to SB. 
SB claims jailed Sky n1, Bard n3. 
BT claims Abnormal.
Hikaru claims Motivator.
Zak claims shoot Sky n1 (which is plausible and actually explains why he 'didnt' shoot).
Day 5
Bardiche claims Zenkichi Hitoyoshi, Town Neighbour, and Town Conditional Tracker.
Day 6
Shadoweh claims target self n1, target self n3, target bard n4, target self n5
Bard claims target Shadoweh n1, target Sky/roleblocked n3, unavailable action n4, target Dan n5
BT claims action immune

***

Night 1
Oarfish: mimics to Serela. 
Conqueror: Blank
SB:  Jail Sky. 
Zak:  Hit Sky (janitor hit imo). 
Bard targets Shadoweh
Shadoweh targets self
Hikaru targets Shadoweh

Night 2
Conqueror:  Skip next day phase. 

Night 3
SB Jail Bard
Bard track blocked omitted stating who he attempted to track until pressured, claims attempt on Sky N3. 
Hikaru targets Shadoweh
Shadoweh target self

Night 4
Bard track unavailable for *reasons*
Shadoweh watches Bard

Night 5
Sky vig Dan
Shadoweh watches self
Bard track Dan

To do:
Best of three because we have two lynches left
BT picks Bard and Shadoweh
Sky picks Bard and Conq

Conq hated - must lynch today?

Odd posts while reading
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077123.html#msg1077123) "Ascetics roleclaiming is null as far as I care."
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077304.html#msg1077304) I read this post as 'attempt to derail CF7 train'. 
Zak (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077310.html#msg1077310) Scum request for vig of BT. 
Conqueror (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077366.html#msg1077366) legit vote on Zak, no reason to counterwagon a scum buddy.  supports (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077411.html#msg1077411) his vote. 
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077569.html#msg1077569) not voting Zakeri when he really should have. 
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077578.html#msg1077578) over reacting. 
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077746.html#msg1077746) conspiciously avoiding CF7 and Zakeri, tunneling on Serela in spite of shenanigans. 
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077800.html#msg1077800) still no analysis of CF7, failed to follow up on great points on Zak.  Arguing between Kingault and Serela (both town). 
Conqueror (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077854.html#msg1077854) accidentally crumbing Dreaming God lol.
Conqueror (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077875.html#msg1077875) choosing and backing up decision to lynch CF7 over Serela. 
Day 2 was much better for Bard.
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078460.html#msg1078460) unnecessarily defending Sky.  I mean, all of Bard's day 2 posts are super town.  Starts with ignoring the Sky/SB bus and goes for King.  Keeps his vote on King/Oarfish as the slot progressively descents into madness.  Except that day 1 - tunnel Serela.  Day 2 - tunnel Oarfish. 

Day 4
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079660.html#msg1079660) weird exchange where it looked like Bard was about to push for a Sky neighbourclaim lynch. 

This very confusing exchange starts with Bard's response to Shadoweh's role's list:
Bardiche: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079682.html#msg1079682) "Also, Shadoweh: Unless you think Sacchi or Zakeri is a roleblocker, there's at least one lie in that list."  First mention of possible roleblock existence. 
SB (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079687.html#msg1079687) gives away that he knows a role block happened but it was not necessarily scum. 
BT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079694.html#msg1079694) legitimately confused.  Shows that Bard/BT not on the same team, useful how..?
Shadoweh (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079741.html#msg1079741) attributes the roleblock to Zak...why?   I went back and read these pages so many times and never saw it.  It would be a scumslip and lynch if Zak had flipped with a roleblock though because we know it was SB, it's just strange. 
Shadoweh (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079749.html#msg1079749) going on.  Like I really don't get it.  At what point did we know that Bard or NNR had been roleblocked?  I must have missed it, because, I don't see how Shadoweh knew that the neighbour topic was knocked out.  I'm trying to write the sequence of claims and I keep clutching nothing.  Bard didn't say anything about being blocked. 
Bardiche (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080369.html#msg1080369) overreacting to pressure.  Claims Zenkichi Hitoyoshi, Town Neighbour, and Town Conditional Tracker.  (I just thought it odd that he felt obliged to put Town in there twice.  Nobody else claimed xyz town). 

***

Ok I think I'll go with this. 

Quote
Night 1 I tracked Shadoweh, and Shadoweh did not commit the kill.I later decided she was definitely Town due to my result on account of not having targeted anyone, not including herself.

Bard claims n1 target Shadoweh, N2 skipped, N3 roleblocked, n4 unavailable due to *reasons*.  But
Quote
My role condition prevented the other use(s)

It's ONE MISSING USE.  You couldn't use it N4 if your story is true.  Then you used it again N5 to track Dan.  You should at least know how many times you couldn't use your ability. 

It's one v one because Shadoweh targeted herself night 1, which is how she could verify Hikaru.  Also, please note the wording Bard used:  "Did not commit the kill."  It's not the same as "Did not do any actions." 

On day 6, Bard said (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080718.html#msg1080718):
"Again, my Track result on N1 indicated Shadoweh did not target anyone outside of herself."
So, that's a changed night result. 

Here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080732.html#msg1080732) we establish from Shadoweh that Bard definitely did target her night 1, so why didn't Bard report it?

So from this, I'm pretty confident Bard is the last scum.  But it's rocking 2 am so I'll let you guys look over it and I'll read again in the morning. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 21, 2014, 04:49:28 PM
Quote
Best of three because we have two lynches left

So this point is; treating today as LYLO is not entirely correct because we have two shots left.  Yes cut by Bard Im tired. 

I figure if we can't come to a clean decision, we can each put forward our two scum picks.  Then we lynch the one that comes up most often today, then we lynch the next most common.  We get 2 chances out of 3 imo. 

Quote
Conq hated - must lynch today?

Does hated work in LYLO?   If so then town!Conq means auto game over on day 7.  If so, we have to probably consider that we must lynch Conqueror if we can't clearly decide on the last scum. 

I mean does hated *generally* work in LYLO.  Scum/town Conq both have to say that they are not hated in LYLO. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 21, 2014, 04:52:14 PM
My actions list is incomplete because I'm so tired I missed a bunch of stuff I think. 

I just want to know if Bard claimed tracker that watched Shadoweh came before Shadoweh saying she watched herself night 1.  I can't see it. 

I hate doing mafia after midnight but it's the only chance I get buu.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 21, 2014, 04:55:44 PM
OH right. 

"not including herself"

I realise the comma confused me. 

Bard said, "I later decided she was definitely Town due to my result on account of not having targeted anyone, not including herself."

I read 'not including herself' as 'did not target others, did not target self'.  But you meant 'did not target anybody except self'.  Sigh.

Well that notwithstanding

How do you screw up knowing how many times you used your ability?
How do you not tell us in advance if you can/cannot track that phase, or at least crumb?

I think you're being irresponsible and your attitude of pressure = explode looks a lot like Dormio in justice juice mafia, when his defence was literally to swear at players until they unvoted. 

I'm too exhausted.  See you tomorrow. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 21, 2014, 04:59:40 PM
Sky feels
Shadoweh - town 90%
Bard - scummy
BT - town 80%
Conq - town 80%

I can't pick between BT and Conq easily.  Rereading the entire game, I get a great feeling from Conq's posts.  BT makes me frown because he mostly wanted to kill me for the first part of the game but his arguments are solid and both Conq and BT do engage in battle of wills, whereas Bard for the most part only went to battle with Serela and Oarfish.  I feel like Bards' interactions are less common and less meaningful. 

I'd lynch Bard but if we're wrong I'm honestly not sure between Conq and BT. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 21, 2014, 05:04:40 PM
I spent some time going through previous games because I have this discussion a lot.

If you notice (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,15570.msg1023590.html#msg1023590), Conq has the same comment about my "one-track pursuit" in Mirai Nikki Mafia, and I was Town that game. Everyone also accused me of tunnelling as GLaDOS on Day 1. And I was Town that game.

I regularly don't like popular wagons (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13051.msg861951.html#msg861951), and Dormio flipped Scum that game. And I flipped Town. This happens more often (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9126.msg613953.html#msg613953), too. The fact that I am stubborn cannot be denied, and I tend to believe in my own reasoning a lot more than that of others, for good or for worse.

"Bard, you avoided CF7," and damn right I did, because gut and my reasoning did not let me think CF7 was the Scum We're All Looking For. I get you guys want to insist me thinking lowly of CF7 indicates I'm Scum, but the fact of the matter is that I hold Scum to a higher standard, and CF7 did not meet that standard.

BT says at the end I'm tunnelling him (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,11974.msg788966.html#msg788966), and again, I flip Town that game.

When the opposite happened once (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,10962.msg732463.html#msg732463), I flipped Scum.

Honestly, whether or not I tunnel on someone isn't that indicative of alignment. The above is all WIFOM by now since I cite biased examples (and I'm half-expecting someone to jump in and call this post scummy but whatever), but the point I mean to make is that every time people accuse me of tunnelling, and more often than not I flip Town when I flip. Contrarily, whenever I do spread my sights wide, that's still no guarantee I won't flip Scum. There's very little I can say about "Bard tunnelled Serela, omg scummy" when I think the past can establish that I enjoy prioritising my time on whoever I think is scummiest rather than spending it on a lot of people, as I like direction more than wishywashy "I think all these people are scummy :V"
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 21, 2014, 05:09:22 PM
Sky, what the fuck are you talking about.
Bard claimed to have tracked me night 1. I claim to have seen him night 1. This is called 'confirming each other's actions'. Why are you so bad at understanding role actions ;_;
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 21, 2014, 05:11:36 PM
Also Conq already stated that he doesn't have Hated in LYLO. >:T
I'm going to work and hopefully not passing out immediately on getting home so etc
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 21, 2014, 05:14:38 PM
This (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079660.html#msg1079660) is me being tongue-in-cheek over your use of language. And consider my point of view: If you're someone's neighbour and there may be any kind of counter-claim to that uuuh, of course you'd want that person dead? Scum hijacking QTs isn't new.

Quote
It's ONE MISSING USE.  You couldn't use it N4 if your story is true.  Then you used it again N5 to track Dan.  You should at least know how many times you couldn't use your ability. 

In case it wasn't obvious: I don't want to specify how many use(s) I have of anything, or if I am limited to a set amount of uses, or anything, BECAUSE I AM NOT ALLOWED TO EXPLAIN MY CONDITION. What exactly is so scummy about that? You are suggesting here that Scum!Bard cooked up a fake Tracker claim really early in the game, but then would just forget his fakeclaim/have it incomplete? Bro, when I fakeclaim, I ensure I've got it all down pat. I don't do things in halves.

Quote
How do you not tell us in advance if you can/cannot track that phase, or at least crumb?

Because Scum don't need to know, and Town only needs to know what my results are. Isn't that obvious? Why the hell would I want to tell Scum, "Hey guys, you can do whatever tonight, it's totally cool; I can't use my ability"? What benefit does Town have from knowing whether or not I can Track? It doesn't do anything for you. "But Bard," I hear you say. "We can verify the truth of your words!" Given how inattentive most people are I'm amazed no one can think of what the condition is.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 05:18:32 PM
Uh, Conq claimed his hated status disappears in *YLO. He'd have no reason to lie about that as town.

I'm not sure what you're trying to catch Bard on but it's probably the wrong approach. Shadoweh saw Bard target her on N1. Whether he's a tracker or a rolecop or whatever, it doesn't really matter, but he learned that she targeted herself then.

I started reading the thread again about an hour ago but I stopped almost immediately. I have strong town reads on everyone except Bard, who I think is scum. Shadoweh's CF7 campaign, interactions with Zak and overall play are just town, SkyPal is a confirmed situational vig which seems to fit the setup well and seems overwhelmingly genuine with some of the things he's saying, Conq is... complicated, I could be wrong but I really don't think so. What I did manage to read of the thread just reinforces that -

##Unvote
##Vote: CF7

Rolefishing.
/shrug
I just asked a question.

@Kingault: Were you trying to achieve anything specifically with your self-vote? Just wondering, as SB already did it before you.
Also, Conq here does the same thing, let's all vote him for it.
@Zak.
Both questions are implying some self-profit from self-voting. And both are questioning reasons for self-voting. Somehow mine is scummy and Conq's is not.
++Conq - CF7 trying to excuse his actions by highlighting someone else's, not very likely to come from a weak scum player to a buddy.

Kind kind of want to ask Conq if he's is permanently hated or not. But then again that is rolefishing and that's bad, as you said it. So i won't. But he's very likely town, if his claim is true, because hated doesn't really make sense as scum role. On other hand it's not provable  unless we lynch him.
++Conq - Trying to be protown by sharing a role-based conclusion that he knows is true. Even tacks on a waffle and way out at the end, in case Conq needed the lynch boot in the future.

What would be a townie way for him to handle the pressure?

##Unvote
##Vote: Zakeri

++Conq - Calling out a buddy for his bad bus is lol. Conq was trying to steer clear of CF7 in the very same post so it'd be kind of jarring if he used that fact to vote the other buddy instead.

(this is up to around the middle of day 1)

So I'm pretty happy with my vote. I swear I will make an organized case eventually.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 21, 2014, 05:23:47 PM
I think the frustrating part is where everyone complains that my results have been completely useless, but the only reason everyone can assume Shadoweh is telling the truth is because I Tracked her targeting herself, and Shadoweh claims having Watched herself. My result confirms Shadoweh is speaking the truth.

Honestly, what do you think? Scum Team is JACK OF ALL TRADES, AMAZING BACKUP and "Lol Bard, you get Track which is useful on SB and Sacchi and no one outside of that lol, also you get paired with a neighbour :3"? That doesn't make any sense.

I think the complaint about me "overreacting = scummy" is stupid. The last time I was in this situation I had to fight tooth and nail to get people to drop their confirmation bias and lynch the Scum Dormio. I spent a lot of hours and effort in it, and the end result is that everyone praised Dormio and said Town had deserved to lose. I put in all that effort to be told I deserved to lose. Serela literally said, "You got lucky," after I had spent the better part of two hours combing over every bit of Dormio's posts for something that could convince Town I wasn't Scum and that he, in fact, was. That's not luck. That's putting in effort and refusing to lose.

So yes, I get de-motivated when it feels like I need to do everything all over again, and further when the last time I put so much effort into ensuring the Town win, everyone trampled all over it and felt that we hadn't deserved that victory. I deserved that goddamn victory.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 05:43:10 PM
I don't even know what to "defend" against. "Didn't join CF7 wagon", well no shit. GLaDOS didn't join a DiEnd wagon. I regularly don't jump onto D1 wagons I don't believe in. This isn't Scum!Bard. This is me being me. I honestly don't know what to say to the accusation of "you're being you".
If you really want to make that comparison, GLaDOS didn't even say anything about DiEnd, because they legitimately didn't care. That's not like the gut/impression you're claiming you got from CF7 which I'm calling out as fake.

"Bard, you avoided CF7," and damn right I did, because gut and my reasoning did not let me think CF7 was the Scum We're All Looking For. I get you guys want to insist me thinking lowly of CF7 indicates I'm Scum, but the fact of the matter is that I hold Scum to a higher standard, and CF7 did not meet that standard.
Kingault did? I don't buy the "I was wrong about CF7, I guess I need to reverse the way I think" argument you pulled when you voted King because that's not how mafia players play, that's opportunism. You still have your own way of scumhunting and Kingault was derping around, claiming out in the open that he doesn't care to be lynched and doesn't care at all. What impression did you get from CF7 but not from King? Fool me once fool me twice.

Honestly, what do you think? Scum Team is JACK OF ALL TRADES, AMAZING BACKUP and "Lol Bard, you get Track which is useful on SB and Sacchi and no one outside of that lol, also you get paired with a neighbour :3"? That doesn't make any sense.
Jack of all colorful kills, you mean. Mafia would have no information role. I'd think they'd at least have something more than "special kills" and "backup".
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 08:28:53 PM
Meta hunt was useless because Bard apparently hasn't been scum in forever. Did find a town game on SF where he got pissed off and requested modkill though, so there's that.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 08:33:14 PM
The problem is that I just find a lot of Bard's posts right now genuine. A lot of it could be genuine frustration from either alignment, I suppose.

Bard, I think the role argument is that you'd either be a scum tracker or a scum rolecop (since you'd be able to guess that Shadoweh self-targetted from that result).

I'm mulling over the role argument in my head whether it makes sense for BT to be a full town untargetable that rawr would inherit on death. Actually, rawr wouldn't even be able to inherit it, since untargetable means he'd be sticking around forever.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 08:38:31 PM
@Bard, BT: Answer, in your own words, why you think I'm town. I mean, I know I'm town, but I figure you two would be looking more my way in a LYLO situation instead of completely locking onto each other. It makes me nervous.

What I like about BT's LYLO play here: he's jumping around a lot, taking in new information, making conclusions from that. He sounds as confused as the rest of us. Bard, this is what I find off about your LYLO play here. You basically decided on BT scum from the start of LYLO and have stuck with it since then. I mean, that's fine if you're right, but today was the first day you started looking at possible BT!scum.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 08:44:30 PM
Oh, right. One thing I wanted to ask Bard.

Bard, I know you said that Shadoweh was a hard read for you, but why her instead of so many other people given her position on the D1 CF7 wagon?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 09:02:26 PM
The problem is that I just find a lot of Bard's posts right now genuine. A lot of it could be genuine frustration from either alignment, I suppose.
I have this problem too (I'm not actually 120% sure about this - only 110%) but I don't think we're talking about the same posts. The latest posts were pretty much what I expected from Scum Bard. They all give the impression that he's mostly interested in defense ever since he settled his reads.

I'm mulling over the role argument in my head whether it makes sense for BT to be a full town untargetable that rawr would inherit on death. Actually, rawr wouldn't even be able to inherit it, since untargetable means he'd be sticking around forever.
-Lynch
-Strongman

I actually forgot about the easy option (lynch) when I was talking about the purpose of Dan's role earlier. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080959.html#msg1080959)

@Bard, BT: Answer, in your own words, why you think I'm town. I mean, I know I'm town, but I figure you two would be looking more my way in a LYLO situation instead of completely locking onto each other. It makes me nervous.
Problem: I don't remember.

I mean, it's a role based on a bunch of instances during the game where I went "yeah, Conq is probably town" for varying reasons, and I forgot those reasons over time. I could probably remember if I went over all of your posts. I could do that. I think one of the reasons had something to do with the way you handled discussion.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 09:03:19 PM
a read*, not a role
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 09:08:28 PM
Goddammit Dormio. Can you move that post from that topic to this topic?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 09:09:02 PM
Zakeri, if your top scumpicks are in order of mention CF7, Sky Paladin and Serela, then why is your vote on Serela? It honestly reads like a votepark considering you're voting him "until he develops reads [...]" on basically others. That's an extremely lazy vote if you can just abandon it once Serela does develop reads.
Bard's comment on Zak in #182 (outright dislike this one, Zak explains his opinion on CF7 well and explains why he chose to vote Serela instead just as clearly, calling it a lazy vote is just scummy).

Early poke at Zak from Bard after Zak switches to Serela. BT attacks Bard for the poke. Not sure if these interactions are telling either way but no one's brought them up yet so I'm posting them here.

Some back and forth between me and BT about CF7, we've gone over this already. Bard, me and a few others ask for reasons why CF7 should be being wagoned.

CF7 should claim when he gets on.
I'm thinking BT would have given CF7 something to claim aside from "LOL NOT CLAIMING" after this if they were scum together. Bard's complaint about CF7 being completely incompetent at not claiming could be him getting mad at a scumbuddy.


Votecount
CF7 (4): NekoNekoRex, Shadoweh, BT, Kingault
Serela (3): Bardiche, Zakeri, CF7
Sky Paladin (2): Sacchi Hikaru, Serela
NekoNekoRex (1): SB
BT (1): DrRawr
Kingault (1): Sky Paladin
Zakeri (1): ActionDan
Shadoweh (1): Conqueror
Dr Rawr (0):
ActionDan (0):
SB (0):
Sacchi Hikaru (0):
Conqueror (0):
Bardiche (0):

If the scumteam is Bard/Zak/CF7 it means the entire counterwagon to CF7 early was scum. It's possible I suppose given the way CF7 jumped onto that wagon. There was a point after that when the Serela wagon and the CF7 wagon were tied at 5 votes each.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 09:14:21 PM
Start of D2, Bard and Zak both opine that CF7 was being bussed given the speed and lack of counerwagon.

Zak opens D2 with a strong attack on BT. I'm back to mulling over whether Zak thought it would be a good idea to bus BT given the position that scum was in (bad) especially with the double day.

I'll continue rereading this later. I think I might want to lynch Bard.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 09:18:19 PM
-Strongman
Is it even possible to strongman an untargettable? I actually think not being able to strongman your role is a point in your favour, because strongmanning what is essentially a full bp only to have it be inherited is rough. If the untargettable got lynched, well it would still be an issue but at least you lynched one of them. The counterargument to "full bp op" is that if scum inherited SB's governor you'd have "scum governor op" so that makes some sort of sense.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 09:20:55 PM
Early poke at Zak from Bard after Zak switches to Serela. BT attacks Bard for the poke. Not sure if these interactions are telling either way but no one's brought them up yet so I'm posting them here.
I noticed it and I have a pretty good expalantion too.

Think about what Zak was doing - getting off CF7 to vote Serela instead. It was really weak and, from the third buddy's perspective, probably looked horrible. So they had a colored opinion on Zak's voteswitch and saw the need to point it out (and do nothing about it).

Meanwhile, Zak's post looked fine to me, since CF7's wagon was going to hit a lull because dude wasn't posting. So at the time I attacked Bard for attacking something that looked completely reasonable to me. One explanation was that he's scum, but another explanation is that they're both scum. :D

Start of D2, Bard and Zak both opine that CF7 was being bussed given the speed and lack of counerwagon.
I think you (or someone else) agreed at the time and, I'm pretty sure I ended up not doing it, but I wanted to post that I found it annoying and there wasn't any guarantee of bussing and that people shouldn't be starting there for scumhunting anyway.

What should be pointed out now, though, is how Bard mentions it, then talks about King and appoints him as the busser. And mentions Zak later in a really minor way. More could have been done to look at the wagon if them were the sentiments.

Is it even possible to strongman an untargettable? I actually think not being able to strongman your role is a point in your favour, because strongmanning what is essentially a full bp only to have it be inherited is rough. If the untargettable got lynched, well it would still be an issue but at least you lynched one of them. The counterargument to "full bp op" is that if scum inherited SB's governor you'd have "scum governor op" so that makes some sort of sense.
I'm not sure. We could ask Dormio who would win in Untargetable versus Strongman but I don't know what the significance of that would be - lynch is the more likely scenario anyway.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 21, 2014, 09:32:54 PM
Votecount
BT (1): Bardiche
Bardiche (1): BT
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):

Not voting: Conqueror, Sky Paladin, Shadoweh

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~28.5 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 21, 2014, 09:38:01 PM
Missed Shadoweh's unvote.

I'll take a screenshot if I have to. You can't run away from your crimes.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 21, 2014, 09:39:39 PM
Again, I have no idea what you're talking about.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 21, 2014, 10:21:15 PM
What I like about BT's LYLO play here: he's jumping around a lot, taking in new information, making conclusions from that. He sounds as confused as the rest of us. Bard, this is what I find off about your LYLO play here. You basically decided on BT scum from the start of LYLO and have stuck with it since then. I mean, that's fine if you're right, but today was the first day you started looking at possible BT!scum.

It's LYLO?

@MOD: I thought LYLO would be announced?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 21, 2014, 10:22:00 PM
@MOD: I thought LYLO would be announced?
*YLO will be announced.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 10:22:11 PM
My bad, it's not LYLO. But it feels like it.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 21, 2014, 11:07:45 PM
But yeah, I think you're Town because Scum!Conq arguing not to lynch me yesterday was silly when he could've just ridden it out.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 21, 2014, 11:08:08 PM
I'll go consider how scummy everyone else is if for some reason BT flips green.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 21, 2014, 11:14:39 PM
;-;

Quick question while you're here then:
Bard, I know you said that Shadoweh was a hard read for you, but why her instead of so many other people given her position on the D1 CF7 wagon?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 21, 2014, 11:33:26 PM
Because it's Shadoweh, and I wanted to be sure.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 21, 2014, 11:55:14 PM
Is it even possible to strongman an untargettable? I actually think not being able to strongman your role is a point in your favour, because strongmanning what is essentially a full bp only to have it be inherited is rough. If the untargettable got lynched, well it would still be an issue but at least you lynched one of them. The counterargument to "full bp op" is that if scum inherited SB's governor you'd have "scum governor op" so that makes some sort of sense.
Conq, don't you think it's actually worse for the scumteam if there are two unkillable townies?
In point of fact. I know Sky P's been trying, but I've been mulling over the Mystery of the Setup myself all day. We've been failing to take into account Rawr's role, and it's kind of important to do so because alot of this setup is balanced entirely around Rawr's existence. I present to you the problem of:

Rawrzilla, The Bulletproof Untargettable Serial Killer

(http://i.imgur.com/0Z57tQW.png)

So, when I said Rawr's role was garbage earlier, I was wrong. I was terribly, terribly wrong. Rawr's role is broken. Mainly because of the fact that Zakeri's role is an Abnormality, meaning Rawr could back up p much everyone's roles. As you can see in said clearly drawn illustration, as early as Day 3, if the stars align and we lynch Zakeri first, someone dies N1, BT is lynched Day 2 and say, Sky P kills CF7, Rawr becomes bulletproof with four kills. I don't know about you, but to me, that seems a little wrong. In this circumstance, if Bard is the scum, his recourse is assumedly to bend over and kiss his ass goodbye, followed by getting Dormio banned from hosting mafia forever.

I would go so far as to say the reason that Zakeri is a backup to CF7's kills is so the scumteam has two strongarms to kill Rawr with, both one early game and one on Day 5 when their kill types reset and Rawr might have claimed to have literally all the roles. It of course also counters SB, and BT if he's town. There are alot of really broken combinations that get countered by the scum as we know them. Zak + BT + SB makes Rawr a Bulletproof Untargetable Jailkeeper, who can still be killed by the JoaK, but a Bard scum alone would be shit out of luck again. BT + Bardiche makes a BP Tracker, countered by the double ninjas.

Looking at this from a checks and balances perspective: Town had two chances to have a Vig. Either through Sacchi targetting Sky P, or through Rawr absorbing the right roles. Two chances is a good enough reason imo to give at least one scum Bulletproof. If Bard is scum, Town had two chances at catching the scum through NK's, either through Sacchi and my role, or through Rawr absorbing his Tracker. If BT is scum, Town has three ways, which can be countered by all three scum, as well as whatever Bard's condition is. The question there is which is more likely, for scum to have to strongarm BT only to immediately be unable to strongarm the UberRawrmench, or for the only town informational role worth a damn to have a backup in case it goes south, ensuring town always has something?

I supose it's possible that Dormio and K4U both missed the way BT's role would interact with Rawr but.. I kind of think they wouldn't? It would be awkward if after losing two of the scumteam with Rawr alive the third's best option was to eat bullets and kill himself. I want to vote BT. I supose I will let everyone else see the way my mind works when I'm working first.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 22, 2014, 12:14:01 AM
I love you, but Zak's role works once per person, so if the factional kill counts per mafioso, rawr would get two kills, three if he gets SkyPal and Sacchi can enchant ALL of his actions (which isn't as broken as it sounds because he'd be picking only one of them anyway). There's also Dan's role which helps turn rawr useless if such a thing happens. I know, it's super swingy, I noticed how rawr absorbs Zak too, but I'm not sure whether I'm town or scum actually changes much. In fact, because of how this game and backups work it makes little difference if a role is town or scum - because it immediately turns into "started on town / started on scum".
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 22, 2014, 12:17:09 AM
I'll agree that having one untargetable townie and another backup untargetable townie is weird, but I'm town, so. Blame Dormio.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 22, 2014, 12:20:50 AM
Wait.

Quote from: Zakky
Remodeling (Abnormality): Your abnormality allows you to remodel others, or even yourself, to gain new abilities or enhance existing ones. Lately the introduction of all these minuses have caused you to remodel yourself so that you possess one yourself, but you certainly wouldn't mind having more. Every time a player with a minus is killed, you will experiment on their corpse until you figure out how their minus works so that you can take it for yourself.
Quote from: RAWRZILLA
The End (Abnormality): You are, what some people would call, a genius. You have mastered every skill you have come across by having simply observed them. These abnormalities are no different. You will gain access to every abnormality that is eliminated from the popularity contest.
@mod: is this important?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 22, 2014, 12:21:48 AM
Quote
Sky, what the fuck are you talking about.

The things I think and say at two am don't always follow any kind of rational rules.

Quote
Bard claimed to have tracked me night 1. I claim to have seen him night 1. This is called 'confirming each other's actions'. Why are you so bad at understanding role actions ;_;

That's actually not correct.  Bard said he saw you target yourself.  You said you saw him target you.  Now, let's consider that if one of you are scum, that's not confirming at all.  Especially if Shadoweh was scum, saying "I saw Bard target me" after you already knew Bard targeted you (because he said it) doesn't actually confirm that you watched yourself.  It just confirms that you can read the thread and make a logical conclusion.  So I wanted to go back and check.  Did Bard really see you target yourself?  Or did he just come to that conclusion based on what he read.  Did you really watch yourself or did you just say that you did because somebody said that they saw you do it? 

I was unable to work out where the existence of a roleblock on day 4 came from.  It seemed that you pulled 'Bard or Zak was roleblocked on night 3' from thin air and I wanted to know how you knew it.  Bard gave no indication he was roleblocked that I could see, until day 5 when he was asked who he tracked night 3 (he claimed tracking me).  Day 4 was the perfect time to talk about it but I couldn't see anything from him. 

On a related note I wonder what would have happened if Hikaru had targeted himself. 

Quote
Also Conq already stated that he doesn't have Hated in LYLO.

Of course he said it.  Otherwise we would have to lynch him.  My question was, is hated *normally* present in LYLO?  I've never seen a hated/loved last til LYLO.  I am assuming vote modifying/lynch cancelling effects are void on LYLO, but I would rather not assume when I can ask the remaining players what they think.  It's great that you trust Conq.  I don't trust any of you even though I'm sure some of you are town because town can sometimes just be plain wrong. 

Quote
"But Bard," I hear you say. "We can verify the truth of your words!"

Pretty much this.  You believed I was vanilla town night 3 so I don't understand why you would have tracked me when you should have tracked one of the players you suspected e.g. Serela or Zak.  When players act inconsistently, I have to ask 'why'.  I want to know if the 'because' is that they are scum.  It is not unreasonable to ask. 

Bard tracked n1, n3/blocked, n5.  So I wanted to say, okay, the restriction is cannot track two nights in a row.  But when I asked if you could track night 6 you ignored or refused to answer.  Saying if you can, or cannot track IN ADVANCE on the night before LYLO actually is harmless, because scum!Bard on day 7 would say "I saw player xyz hit" or "I watched player xyz and they didn't make the hit" and town!Bard would say exactly the same thing.  Scum are never going to hit you night 6.  They are going to hit me as confirmed town and maaaaaaybe Shadoweh as psuedo-confirmed town.  Even if we (say) lynched Conq or BT today, it'll still be Bard, Shadoweh, and (one other), with Bard having a useless track result because we don't have another day phase to lynch him if he lied. 

I also don't buy the explanation that you can't crumb who you were targeting or say if you can/cannot track in advance because of restrictions, yet you can still talk openly about your actual results and talk about your role. 

Quote
Conq claimed his hated status disappears in *YLO. He'd have no reason to lie about that as town.

Town!Conq that is hated in LYLO must say he is unhated in LYLO, otherwise scum will autohammer him and it's game over.  Town!Conq that is NOT hated in LYLO would have to consider saying 'I am hated in LYLO' to invite a scum autohammer that fails, but risk being lynched day 6 for being a liability. 

Quote
I think the complaint about me "overreacting = scummy" is stupid.

I will partially repeat what BT said, but essentially I feel that you are counterattacking players who challenge you instead of scumhunting or defending properly.  You're using WIFOM and appeal to authority and those are logical fallacies, so I have to ignore it.  Example:  You say that what you are doing is not tunneling and that even if you are tunneling it's not scummy.  Your defending by attacking minor points that are based on your opinion.  It's very weak. 

Many cuts.  Hitting post and reading.  I like Shadoweh's picture. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 22, 2014, 12:24:55 AM
@mod: is this important?
Being killed and being eliminated from the popularity contest are equivalent from my perspective.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 22, 2014, 12:27:21 AM
I'm told I can one use the ability once per person, and with CF7 dead it's easy to tell why.
Yeah okay. For a second I had no idea where I read about the 'once per person' thing, but it's not in the PM, so I guess they asked.

CUT: Ah well.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 22, 2014, 12:35:30 AM
You believed I was vanilla town night 3 so I don't understand why you would have tracked me when you should have tracked one of the players you suspected e.g. Serela or Zak.  When players act inconsistently, I have to ask 'why'. I want to know if the 'because' is that they are scum. It is not unreasonable to ask.
Highlighting, this is a good point.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 22, 2014, 12:40:10 AM
Because if I Tracked you doing shit then obviously you were Actually Lying All Along like NNR had been trying to convince me of in our Neighbour QT. He kept insisting you were Scum in spite of the claim.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 22, 2014, 01:07:48 AM
Zak said that his role was once per person. According to the wording of his PM, Zak lied.
I mean, he was trying to sound less broken so he wouldn't get lynched, so it's not surprising?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 22, 2014, 01:24:52 AM
Remember the reason I'm asking about this is because I am trying hard to find some way to prove you are actually a town tracker, doing towny things, why are you giving me trouble for it?  "But Bard," I hear you say. "We can verify the truth of your words!"  I'm trying to find some reasonable towny behaviour to back you up.  You're not helping. 

For example, where do you mention on day 4 that you were roleblocked?  The closest I can see is in your neighbour claim, here. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079682.html#msg1079682), when you say 'Also, Shadoweh: Unless you think Sacchi or Zakeri is a roleblocker, there's at least one lie in that list.' 

SB immediately picks up on it though and says not sure that the blocker is mafia, which in hindsight, totally gave away who did it before SB claimed. 

As far as I can see, you never actually claimed you were roleblocked night 3 until mid day 5, when SB reports that he roleblocked you.  That's way too late.  I think it's because you suspected there was a jailer because Zak really did hit me night 1, and it failed. 

You weren't sure if your action failed again night 3 because you supposedly targeted me and it would have failed n1 and n3.  You would have had no idea what to think.  Was Sky protected/jailed again?  Or were you blocked?  You couldn't come out and just say "I might have been roleblocked" because that would be admitting you targeted somebody.  But you knew there was a block or a jail in play, so you speculated about it, and SB picked up on it.  You still couldn't know if SB had jailed yourself, or I, until he said so on day 5. 

But a town tracker/neighbour would should have alerted town by saying something like, "Guys I was blocked last night, I can't post in neighbor today" or even "I have an active ability but I was blocked."  You could have crumbed it.  You could have done something.  You are a smart guy and I believe you would have gotten the information out somehow someway in a way that you could refer back to it easily today. 

But you didn't.  So I have to conclude that the reason you are sitting on information, sniping responses and coming up with nothing concrete is that you are really scum. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 22, 2014, 01:35:00 AM
>_> When we were massclaiming Bard said that there was a roleblocker somewhere.
Because he was roleblocked.
You physically hurt me with the pain ;_;
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 22, 2014, 01:52:20 AM
Shadoweh, I am asking Bard to show in his posts the proof that he is acting with town intent.  All I see is you defending him and Bard failing to stand up to pressure.  Where is his town intent? If he deliberately crumbed or hinted at things, it's easy for him to go back and show it.  If what I am saying is false it's easy for Bard to dismantle it.  I am saying he didn't do it and that's the reason he is scummy. 

I mean this;
I asked Bard 'why cant you tell us if you can track tonight' and 'why cant you point to evidence of you crumbing before, or your results' and I get 'cant talk about my role'.  Really?  But you can claim and talk about your neighbour role?  HOW INTERESTING. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 22, 2014, 02:09:58 AM
I'll say it one more time.  Like we were a jury.  OH WAIT WE ARE.   

Did Bard act in a reasonable way on night 3/day 4?

1 - He claims to have tracked me on night 3. 
2 - He alluded to a possible roleblocker on day 4 and stated it on day 5. 

If you were Bard, what would you have done night 3?  What would you have said day 4, having been roleblocked? 

I'm saying that he tracked an unreasonable player and didn't crumb that he was roleblocked.  I also think he is being deliberately unhelpful. 

I mean Shadoweh you super disagree, so maybe you can come up with a case on somebody else that's stronger instead of just crapping on everything I do. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 22, 2014, 02:31:17 AM
So on that note;

Shadoweh, how do you go from Conq is scummier than BT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080738.html#msg1080738) to let's lynch a BT. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080773.html#msg1080773)  That's your case, right?  You don't consider Bard because you believe his tracker claim.  You just feel that Conq is town because he attacked the other scum when the first scum was up for bus - an analysis I agree with. 

So at the very least if we can't agree on who is scum can we get to an agreement on who is town?  We have three to choose from and two picks, so at the very least, if we can rule one of them out, we can still get a good result at the end. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 22, 2014, 03:34:34 AM
It's not that I believe his tracker claim. I believe his behavior is consistent with someone who is a conditional tracker, but that's incidental to me just feeling like he's town. I do not think it was scummy of him to crumb that he visited me. I do not think he would have killed his prob-vanilla neighbour when his partner was hungry for Minuses. I do think that his reasoning for wanting to track you is sound, he wanted to confirm you as town/scum For Sure. I'm sorry that you feel like I'm shitting on your efforts, I can tell you're very convinced of what you're saying. I just think the evidence points against it.

I also think I made a pretty good case for BT being scum right there. >:T I mean if you want you can add how BT is sure Zak's role works once per person, which if he were town he would probably not believe Zakeri told the truth about that. I imagine that might even be a scumslip, some of Zakeri's role is REDACTED but it wouldn't be to the scum.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 22, 2014, 03:35:48 AM
Votecount
BT (1): Bardiche
Bardiche (1): BT
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):

Not voting: Conqueror, Sky Paladin, Shadoweh

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~22.5 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 05:08:52 AM
I mean, I understand the role argument. It's a solid argument. But mods have done OP shit before. And I've never lynched someone solely off of role shenanigans so I'm scared to start now. I mean, usually it's just reaffirming a read I already had on someone.

Bard's reasoning for tracking Shadoweh and Sky lines up, but Bard has put so much emphasis on his individuality that I'm wondering how much weight he'd put on NNR's insistence on confirming Sky when NNR was basically the only person still pushing Sky at the end of D2. This probably means that I have to go and look at how Bard uses PRs in his past town games.

Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 05:12:58 AM
@Mod Could the abnormal backup use the same ability from the same dead person over different nights? Could the abnormal backup use different abilities from the same dead person over different nights?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 22, 2014, 05:22:38 AM
Sky Paladin, you make my mind boggle.

I said there was a lie in that list because there was a roleblocker in play. I can only have known that because I was roleblocked. I wasn't even testing anything out. I was flat-out saying that there was a roleblocker in play and the only way I would know is if I was roleblocked.

Which I was.

And if I was Scum, wtf would I bother telling Town there's a roleblocker for?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 22, 2014, 05:28:05 AM
And yes, I can talk about my neighbour role. Basically, you're saying I'm scummy because Dormio only didn't allow me to claim the condition to the not-neighbour ability.

Sorry, but this line of reasoning is stupid. Like, seriously stupid. I don't even know why you are even posting this because it's all stupid. I say there's a roleblocker because I was roleblocked. This is how language works. If someone says, "Oh, by the way, there's a roleblocker so unless x or y is the RB someone is lying", it means that they are aware there is a roleblocker. How does one become aware? Because one is the victim of it.

Are you doing this deliberately? I don't get how you just didn't understand that one. It's like, super simple stuff.


Quote
2 - He alluded to a possible roleblocker on day 4 and stated it on day 5. 
Quote
didn't crumb that he was roleblocked.

I'm actually getting really annoyed with how bad you are at reading. I said, flat-out, that there is a roleblocker. How is this "alluding" to a "possible" roleblocker? How can you not understand that me saying, "There is a roleblocker" is equal to "I was roleblocked so I am going to confirm there is a roleblocker".
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 05:31:50 AM
Bard, what did you and NNR talk about in your QT anyway? Paraphrase, obviously. I mostly want to know why you decided to follow NNR's insistence on tracking Sky rather than your own.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 22, 2014, 05:40:20 AM
Conq: I didn't check Sky for NNR, I checked Sky because I wanted to be sure of it myself.

NNR restated his case, added that he'd never be satisfied without a Sky Pal lynch. He also said in the QT he thought O4rfish was scummy as well but that Sky Paladin was the superior choice. He also said it was unlikely they were both Scum.

The QT was just mostly talking about his scumreads and how I felt about things.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 5
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 07:04:02 AM
Finally figured out how to word what's been bouncing around in my head.

N3 I attempted to target Sky Paladin because claiming VT is an easy test when you can Track. What's stopping me from claiming my condition is that I'm specifically not allowed to in my role. Why did you think I suspected SkyPal could be a townie that wasn't allowed to claim his role?
But if you thought he was a townie who couldn't claim his role and had to claim VT instead, wouldn't tracking him not tell you much unless you tracked him to the nightkill or something like that?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 07:05:11 AM
Er, what I mean to say was that from your defense of him D2 I got the impression that you didn't think Sky was VT; he just wasn't allowed to claim the conditions of his role. Did you change your mind on that afterwards when deciding to track him to test his VT claim?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 07:05:57 AM
*When did you change your mind
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 22, 2014, 04:10:36 PM
I'm away for 12 hours and nothing happens, sheesh.  Nobody even said who they would not lynch. 

I'm going to bed, phase change will happen before I get up so I am actually setting my alarm to get up early to vote on a Sunday after I've been out all night so please put some content here to make it worth my time. 

I think this is where we are at. 

Shadoweh:  Wants to lynch BT, ignoring Conq and Bard.  Who is your second option? 
Conq:  Would lynch Bard, and presumably BT. 
Bard:  Would lynch BT, and presumably Conq. 
BT:  Would lynch Bard, and presumably Conq. 
Sky:  Would lynch Bard, and would lynch BT. 

Shadoweh and I both agree that we won't lynch Conqueror so it's really a choice of Bard or BT today.  And then presumably, whichever of Bard or BT we didn't lynch today. 

I guess my fear is that we lynch BT, I'm killed at night, Conquer and Bard crossvote and scum!Shadoweh hammers.  I don't like that Shadoweh's case on BT basically boils down to role shenanigans and setup speculation and we have directly opposed scumreads on Bard.  It's just frustrating for me because it looks like Bard is trying to retroactively apply stuff and only defending specific points instead of doing a general defend and targeted attack. 

I think he's scummy.  I think Conq is town.  I think BT is town.  Shadoweh, if BT flips town, what will you do then? 

***

I am going to bed.  I will be back before phase end to hammer if necessary.  I would prefer to vote Bard but I would also hammer BT.  If there's an awesome case somehow I would also consider voting Shadoweh or Conqueror but there would have to be something incredible because Shadoweh's lynch of Zak is supertown and Conqueror has been consistently tow. 

If there's a phase out before I get back well it's been fun but I can't see scum letting me live, see you in graveyard topic, and good luck town :)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 22, 2014, 04:12:28 PM
Actually

We also have a no lynch option. 

I don't know how that is useful as its still LYLO next day but we have one less mislynch available, but putting it out there in case somebody can see how to use it. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 22, 2014, 04:17:17 PM
We're not no lynching because we gain nothing from it. By the way, you could have just voted right now, but suit yourself.

I'm gonna shower and then force myself to do rereads.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 22, 2014, 04:18:03 PM
We're at odds, so we don't want to no-lynch. It's better to go to 2-1 then 3-1.
Conq, what do you want to do? Sky wants Bard, I want BT, and obviously they want each other. The ball's in your court right now.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 22, 2014, 04:19:13 PM
  Shadoweh, if BT flips town, what will you do then? 
GET NIGHTKILLED.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 22, 2014, 04:20:40 PM
I could have voted but I was like 'why the fuck has nobody said anything for 14 hours when I clearly said people should say stuff' so I just wanted to remind you that, you know, the phase will end so we should actually come to a decision. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 22, 2014, 04:23:26 PM
is there some reason (Shadoweh) that you won't say your second choice?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 22, 2014, 04:30:54 PM
OK I'm out for the night.  See you in eight hours.  There's nine and a half to phase end so there's plenty of time for you to lynch before then so I can go straight back to bed. 

Bonus material:
Last night I was up late doing mafia with you all and it affected my dreams.  I dreamed that Bard had sneaked into my old work place and lied about his military history and stolen one of our subs.  I was telling everybody we can't just believe his record because there was nobody to back it up, nobody had checked his references.  Then I went to work the next day and everything was on fire, and I was all like, guys I told you so.  I could see the fire from my house.  Which is impressive because I'm in Japan and my work place is in Australia. 

Also for some reason Bard looked like Josef Stalin and was totally drunk.  Nobody else appeared in my dreams except for my really old kendo sensei who was pissed that nobody had remembered his birthday.  And now I'm off to see what crazy shit my brain cooks up tonight. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 22, 2014, 04:31:32 PM
I currently think it's between Bard and BT. I have the odd ability however, to waffle and change my mind at a moment's notice. Why would you want the scum, if there is another day, to know what he has to choose from for a better conclusion?

Cut by something amazing.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 22, 2014, 04:32:46 PM
I mean he just came into the naval yard and was like "Hey guys, it's me, I'm taking the sub out" and everyone went "Wait, do you even know how to drive it?" and he was like "Dont worry its not so hard, anybody can do it" so they were like 'sure off you go' and I was "uhhhh shouldn't we at least check his clearance?" and people were like 'naaah if he got this far he must be town.' 

Then BOOM.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 22, 2014, 06:24:30 PM
I have no hopes of posting anything more convincing than Sky's dream case.

Er, what I mean to say was that from your defense of him D2 I got the impression that you didn't think Sky was VT; he just wasn't allowed to claim the conditions of his role. Did you change your mind on that afterwards when deciding to track him to test his VT claim?
Shadoweh do you even have an opinion on this?

I don't even what Serela is doing.

Ooookay looks like time is short and I honestly do not like turning Day 1 into "lynch the newbie", so I hope at least one of you can give a cogent case for why CF7 is a good lynch for the day.

Gonna take some time to re-read Shadoweh and Sky Paladin, and maybe SB for voteparking NNR. Who's like a total bro, I don't get why you'd votepark him. Unless you want to say he's tryhard scum but that seems ridiculous.
Bard neglects to look at the CF7 wagon till the very end. This was after my convo with Conq. If he thought CF7 was town and didn't think anything of the cases and was pushing the Serela counterwagon, he should have been more involved in the CF7 wagon, either by trying to shut it down or by reading the cases and seeing why people want it. He does neither of the two. Instead he analyzes all the other players. CF7 earns the least attention out of all the wagons and non-wagons, town and scum reads alike.

I am good at figuring out stuff.
-_- No please, be more vague, I think it would really help your chances here.
You know, thinking, analysis, comparison.
Do you just like being punchable or are you pleading inability to claim here? If you're claiming something informationable you better be fucking clear, it's beyond the 7th hour right now andd your alt wagon is obvtown.
Okay, sorry.
In that case i won't claim my role as you'll see it in a few hours anyway.
HAMMER DOWN THE WAGON. A wise woman once said, paraphrasing your role takes moments. A good fakeclaim takes a lifetime. Trolling Shadoweh instead of claiming takes WELCOME TO DYING
Sounds a little harsh for a forged conversation.

DEAR EVERYONE FROM YESTERDAY
SUCK MY CHOCOLATE SALTY BALLS.
More of the same. My money goes on "genuine".

Okay that's D1. Go me.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 09:53:30 PM
Okay, where's Dormio at? I swear he avoided answering my questions on purpose.

Things I am going to look over real quickly when I get back.
Adorable Mafia and VA2.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 22, 2014, 09:57:03 PM
@Mod Could the abnormal backup use the same ability from the same dead person over different nights? Could the abnormal backup use different abilities from the same dead person over different nights?
Most restrictions on most abilities are mentioned in the role PM.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 22, 2014, 10:41:21 PM
Shadoweh do you even have an opinion on this?
I haven't thought much about it to be honest. I don't think it's scummy persay since Sky was claiming VT to the max. I'm kind of getting tired of making Bard's excuses for him though, it's just my thoughts on it.

Conq I am getting old and cold and cranky take a side, I am interested in seeing which way you swing, especially if there is a Tomorrow.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 10:51:53 PM
I really really hope there isn't a tomorrow. I don't want there to be a tomorrow because I am done with this game.

I know I've been sorta on the side because I'm pretty lost right now. If we're going by play, I'd lynch Bardiche. His claimed night actions and trajectory of scumreads in the thread just fit claimed scum better. For BT to be scum here, he'd have to have hard bussed from D1, then hard bussed Zak when that option came up, not to mention Zak's hard bussing of him at the start of D2. Plus, I think BT's play in the past few days has been a lot more proactive than Bard's.
The only real reason I'd lynch BT over Bard is because lolsetup. I don't know how much weight to put on this. Untargetable townie that can be inherited is a seriously painful role but BT could have just not claimed it if he knew it would get people looking funny at him. Also, there could be hidden conditions to rawr's role or something, given Dormio's non-answer answer. I just finished Adorable Mafia and BT's busses there were pretty terrible in content compared to how he would have had to bus his buddies in this game. Of course, that's a really old game, but it sprung to mind because of the similarities.

tl;dr I'm leaning Bardiche. I want Bardiche to give an answer to the most recent question I asked him since I think that's a clincher if he can't explain it. If he does have a good explanation I'll go back to waffling in these last few hours.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 22, 2014, 10:57:55 PM
I peek in and find I'm being likened to Iosef Stalin now. I'm not sure what to think, I feel offended I guess by being likened to Stalin.

Quote
Did you change your mind on that afterwards when deciding to track him to test his VT claim?

It was pointed out to me that Sky Paladin said that it wasn't the case that he couldn't claim anything but VT. If I had a track result on him acting after all and it corresponded to that Night's kill target, you can imagine stuff needs to be said. Anyone else targeted? A negative effect points to maliciously lying, a positive effect would be that he indeed couldn't claim.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 11:02:28 PM
This game is way too hard.

Yes, but why track him over someone you thought was more likely to be scum, since you could also get positive/negative results from other people?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 11:03:44 PM
Bard, what was your most recent scumgame?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 11:07:42 PM
Serela, if there is a God, Sky Paladin will turn into a vig and justice will be sweet.
This was amusing, by the way. What are the odds?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 11:10:22 PM
Eh.

I want a summary of the last three pages.

BT, did you ever do anything with this? Next post I saw was you disappearing and saying you were lazy.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 22, 2014, 11:11:27 PM
RE: BT's comment about my lack of care of the CF7 wagon. I didn't think people'd actually lynch CF7 over what started as RVS shenanigans. That's a rarity. By the time I realised I wasn't dreaming and this was real life, well. That's where people go all, "Bard is teh scums for ignoring CF7"

Conq. I've no idea when my most recent game as Scum was. I tracked Sky Paladin because I also had a neighbour who was stubborn and insistent, and after being told repeatedly how dumb I am for not seeing how obvscum Sky Paladin was, I wanted to get as sure of that as I could with my role.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 22, 2014, 11:13:51 PM
That wasn't just a random comment, I had guessed from the 'own brand of justice' that he would become a Vig when motivated. Setup spec Strong. You can put all the words in one post, what are you Dormio?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 22, 2014, 11:14:37 PM
Votecount
BT (1): Bardiche
Bardiche (1): BT
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):

Not voting: Conqueror, Sky Paladin, Shadoweh

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~2.75 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 22, 2014, 11:16:38 PM
Conq: That reminds me that BT was disapproving there first:
Quote
I won't be getting to this after all but I'm honestly surprised we're going for the Kingault slot.
Later on he posts about newbscum[ (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079039.html#msg1079039) and stuff, but BT never puts his vote down either way and is content just cheerleading the wagon.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 22, 2014, 11:18:14 PM
2.75 hours remaining. Can I just go play Payday 2 and forget about all this? With everyone going, "Yeah I wanna vote Bard anyway" and ignoring anything I post (see Sky Pal completely ignoring any rebuttals I give). I feel like I put more effort into responding than people put into reading what I write.

Well, aside from Conq who's apparently scourging all the archives for my play.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 22, 2014, 11:18:43 PM
BT, did you ever do anything with this? Next post I saw was you disappearing and saying you were lazy.
Evidently, no. I wanted to, then I didn't. I wasn't really into it at the time.

RE: BT's comment about my lack of care of the CF7 wagon. I didn't think people'd actually lynch CF7 over what started as RVS shenanigans. That's a rarity. By the time I realised I wasn't dreaming and this was real life, well. That's where people go all, "Bard is teh scums for ignoring CF7"
That's not specifically what I was saying there - you comprehensively covered all of the counterwagons and consolidation options. Yet the CF7 wagon got the "if people want to show me why he's scum" treatment.

It was pointed out to me that Sky Paladin said that it wasn't the case that he couldn't claim anything but VT. If I had a track result on him acting after all and it corresponded to that Night's kill target, you can imagine stuff needs to be said. Anyone else targeted? A negative effect points to maliciously lying, a positive effect would be that he indeed couldn't claim.
Considering you thought Sky was town because of his restriction, it's convenient that you were made aware that that wasn't the case... at some point after. How exactly did this unfold?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 22, 2014, 11:22:34 PM
Considering you thought Sky was town because of his restriction, it's convenient that you were made aware that that wasn't the case... at some point after. How exactly did this unfold?

NekoNekoRex, Neighbour QT, utterly convinced Sky Paladin is lying scum due to interactions (or lack thereof) with CF7 wagon.

I didn't think he was Town because of the restriction, I thought he was Town because the claim sounded genuine. The part where the mod goes "there are no VTs" and Sky claims "I'm a VT" seemed solvable by "restricted into claiming VT"─it sounded better at the time than "Scum!Sky Paladin was afraid of counter-claims so claimed VT" as NNR put it.

I was never made aware that it "wasn't the case". It was pointed out to me that there was absolutely nothing supporting my thoughts as Sky Paladin himself stated that it wasn't the case. In the melee of words, that was lost to me.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 11:31:29 PM
Hey BT, are you a third party?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 11:34:21 PM
Nevermind, ignore that. :V
I'm just annoyed at Dormio not flipping modkilled people but Serela was probably town on rethinking.
Also, Shadoweh, clearly I've inherited Dormio's posting quirks.
Next thing you know I'll start posting with line breaks everywhere.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 22, 2014, 11:39:26 PM
Not a third party. Serela PROBABLY is town.

I should have gone to sleep already. If there's anything else you need, ask away.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 11:47:32 PM
##Vote: BT
Gut, plus roles.
:yukkuri:

I realized that the reasoning for the track of Sky_Paladin wasn't as telling as I thought, because he was blocked that night. He could have claimed a track on anyone.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 11:48:06 PM
##Unvote
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 22, 2014, 11:54:43 PM
He could have claimed it on anyone but still had to choose someone. We can look at the choice and see if it fits and it actually happened or it was just chosen because it made sense.

Jeez, that was scary. I'll seriously be unhappy if I'm actually lynched because it would probably fall into the "because I let them slide" lynches in my town resume. It's not even that I haven't done anything today - I did - but I guess I could have done more. Even if it does happen, I have enough faith that everyone but Bard isn't scum and that Bard is. If I'm lynched and then Bard, and he flips town, it's obviously GG. If Bard's lynched and flips town, I'd probably be lynched in LYLO anyway. So I guess it doesn't matter that much! So much for that.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 22, 2014, 11:56:53 PM
If you keep reacting like that I won't have the balls to vote you. :V
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 12:03:04 AM
There's a reason I was looking at Shadoweh earlier today; usually by this point of the game I have pretty strong scum reads on people. But the only reason I really think you're scum is PoE + roles. I've thought your play was town the entire game. Same with Bard. I see how his play right now could be interpreted as scumplaining. But it also just plain looks like someone giving up. It could mean I'm rusty, or maybe this entire situation is just wrong.

The thing is that after reviewing Shadoweh's defense of herself it's pretty rock solid. She could have gotten away with executing Dan, even if everyone wanted to lynch Zak. She had enough cred from the D1 lynch and Zak governing himself would create enough of a distraction that she'd probably be safe. And Zak's interactions with her really do seem like they're not on the same team. That, plus I know Shadoweh doesn't actually believe in hard bussing her teammates D1. :V

Sky, his effort and the way he claimed on D2 just seem town. Plus the vig shot. I wanted to think he was possible third party, but possible third party absolutely would not claim VT if they were looking to be the lynch of the day.

So it's back between Bard and BT for me and I keep going back and forth. Here, have my waffles in print form so you can see why this game is just too hard.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 23, 2014, 12:09:56 AM
If it's needed for LYLO: another strong case for Town Conq is this entire Day 6. Still going.

I think I'll be going now. Hope to wake up to postgame.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 23, 2014, 12:15:57 AM
Damnit Conq I could have quickhammered and ended these waffles :<
I don't have strong scum reads either. Usually when BT is scum I'm writing a novel about how scummy he is, maybe it's because I didn't have a night phase to post it in. Sky is in a class of Town above and beyond and Conq keeps trying to make me think he's scum is probably town on play?

Honestly I hate having to defend myself because no one ever wants to take my word for it as Town, but after Long John Raikaria decided The Naughty Shadoweh was a better choice then the obvscum lurker with the creepy face I feel a little more offended. Almost as offended as I am for still being alive. Over Rawr. And Neko.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 12:17:24 AM
Ok I'm here. 

Bard:  I don't think you are Stalin in any way.  But I'm a Gemini so my subconscious goes down some wickedly malicious rabbit holes.  Last night I didn't have any mafia dreams so I'm a little disappointed.  I was hoping to have a baking class with Shadoweh or something.  Anyway. 

I'm a little...well, let's be honest.  It's really a good compliment to the last remaining scum player that at this hour we still have no good feeling either way.  That's why, one of the reasons I picked Bard for scum was that earlier he was slamming the scum team for 'five flavors of retarded'.  You just don't say that as a respectful opponent.  Unless you are, you know, false-criticising yourself or distancing. 

Reading.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 12:18:07 AM
##Vote: Bardiche
Well, let's hope you're not scum buddying me. I'm notoriously susceptible to buddying.

As for Shadoweh's mystery of the setup.
Judging from Zak's role pm, it looks like his kill ability was in his pm from the start (given his first ability mentions she has a minus of her own). So maybe CF7's kills weren't actually inheritable by Zak, and by extension, rawr. Dormio's nonanswer answer said that most restrictions were shown in that pm, but there's a redacted section, plus maybe some hidden interactions somewhere.
Rawr could have inherited abnormalities in a different form from the original form.
Bardiche could be bulletproof.
I have no answer to why the scumteam has a ninja for what is presumably only a self-watcher, besides Dormio gave the scum JOAT two ninja powers when the only tracker/watcher was Shadoweh's one-shot conditionally activated one.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 12:18:36 AM
*scum JOAT in Rewrite Mafia
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 12:19:56 AM
that first line was aimed at BT
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 12:20:58 AM
I'm probably done for today. I'm going to go eat and hopefully I'll come back to postgame!
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 23, 2014, 12:22:40 AM
I'm probably done for today. I'm going to go eat and hopefully I'll come back to postgame!

I'll have to disappoint you there, but maybe BT'll kill you tonight for solace.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 23, 2014, 12:24:19 AM
He better fucking not kill Conq over me. >:< BT I WILL LYNCH YOU SO HARD IF YOU DON'T NIGHTKILL ME
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: BT on March 23, 2014, 12:26:40 AM
I'M NOT SCUM ;-;

If Bard isn't scum I'll probably just consider self-voting in LYLO out of... fuck.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 23, 2014, 12:31:58 AM
I'M NOT SCUM ;-;

If Bard isn't scum I'll probably just consider self-voting in LYLO out of... fuck.

If you're Town then you owe it to everyone not to fucking self-lynch after shoving me into the mislynch.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 12:32:47 AM
Quote
I have no answer to why the scumteam has a ninja for what is presumably only a self-watcher, besides Dormio gave the scum JOAT two ninja powers when the only tracker/watcher was Shadoweh's one-shot conditionally activated one.

Pretty much this.  It's why I thought 1 v 1 Shadoweh/Bard in the first place.  Only Shadoweh is super town and I can't think of any actual scum role that would self target night 1 except for scum doc. 

Shadoweh keeps saying she'll be nightkilled when it will totally be me :/

Sigh why do we always have this hour and a half drama.  Well that's what I get for shooting the easy mislynch.  Sigh. 

OK. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 12:35:40 AM
Whichever one of you is scum deserves a fucking Oscar.

##Unvote
I'll be back.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 23, 2014, 12:38:06 AM
CONQ
COME ON
STOP WAFFLING ON ME HERE
LETS JUST FUCKING DO THIS

Sky, I don't think us mislynching Dan would be any better :V
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 12:46:41 AM
Yeah I'm just stalling because this is a gamble, you know?  We just want to believe in a world where town try to kill the scum and the scum have to lie. 

Don't think I didn't go over the alternatives a million times.  We all did, I'm sure.  The reason BT so accurate?  Because he knew the scum team.  The reason Conq chasing Zak on day 1?  Because he was just trying to break the votes on CF7 and wanted to discredit the wagon.  Shadoweh just lynched Zak because she could laugh all the way to scum!win.  And despite all my claims on Bard it can all ultimately be explained away by Bard actually is the tracker. 

So in the end town didn't actually mislynch once yet; both Oarfish and Serela blew up before we could hammer them.  Serela blowing herself up in the first twelve hours of the previous day phase hurt us so badly when we could have had a whole extra sixty hours of dragging this out.  If we could do over yesterday I probably would have vigged Conq instead of Dan, but here we are today where I'm sure Conq is town. 

##vote Bardiche

If I'm wrong, I'll be next in the GYard Bard, so you can share your I told you so's with me there. 

It's just a game so I won't take it personally. 

Good luck guys, this is probably the game-over point, one way or the other. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 23, 2014, 12:49:44 AM
Votecount
Bardiche (2): BT, Sky Paladin
BT (1): Bardiche
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):

Not voting: Conqueror, Shadoweh

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~1.2 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 23, 2014, 01:00:29 AM
I like how Sky Paladin just condensed his case on me into "everything he does is believable for Bard as a Tracker, I just don't believe he is".
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 01:06:11 AM
Sadly we are down to the last hour so there's no more time for walls.  We're down to last-minute speculation and random changes of heart.  If we were going to find a golden scumslip, we would have found it when we were scouring the thread many times earlier. 

I don't know for sure, man.  I was sure CF7 was town last game, and he was.  This game I felt it was so-so.  The thing is, I ISO'd everybody left alive except for Shadoweh and they've all come up looking pretty good except you.  And I have wondered, well, probably the scum player is the one that will scrub up best, which is the only reason that I think Conq or Shadoweh could be scum.  But that means leaving logic out the window and just going with meta, and partly I am wondering exactly what sticks out for you that makes me think you're scum. 

It may be playstyle.  It may be confirmation bias.  Or maybe I'm just doing the best I can and just got it plain wrong.  I really don't know, none of us do, but we have to make a choice and you're the best one I've got.  Please make my dreams come true <3
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 23, 2014, 01:07:34 AM
You mean the dreams you'll have during Night 6?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 23, 2014, 01:08:16 AM
I can't make those come true. I'll be dead. Maybe BT can make them come true. Or Conq is actually the Scum all along. Or Dormio is silly and you're actually Vanilla Goon who does power into double kill on being motivated.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:17:59 AM
Mmm, that sure was a nice dinner that I just had without thinking at all about mafia.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:18:24 AM
Hey Bardiche. If you survived today, would you be able to use your tracker power on someone useful?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:19:01 AM
Wait, nvm. That's a pretty useless question. IGNORE
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 23, 2014, 01:21:16 AM
Votecount
Bardiche (2): BT, Sky Paladin
BT (1): Bardiche
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):

Not voting: Conqueror, Shadoweh

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~0.6 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 23, 2014, 01:21:57 AM
jiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii O_O
Conq you already know where my votes is. I want to Rock the Dragon if you know what I mean.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:22:54 AM
I can't make those come true. I'll be dead. Maybe BT can make them come true. Or Conq is actually the Scum all along. Or Dormio is silly and you're actually Vanilla Goon who does power into double kill on being motivated.
I wish you had just gone over the other possibilities earlier instead of ignoring them to just focus on BT. I mean, just seeing how you went over them would have been helpful.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:23:46 AM
But Shadoweh, if BT flips town I might just tableflip my laptop. I DONT KNOW, MAFIA IS HARD.

I have some time so LETS GO REREAD D1 AGAIN AWWW YEAH.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 01:23:59 AM
Quote
Hey Bardiche. If you survived today, would you be able to use your tracker power on someone useful?

The thing is, could we trust it?  If we lynched BT, it'd be Bard, Conq, and Shadoweh tomorrow.  He would probably track you, Conqueror, because he already trusts Shadoweh. 

But scum!Bard and town!Bard would theoretically say the same thing "Conq is scum~"

Cut by well yeah.

Conq it really is your choice.  If you don't want to be the guy that hammers Bard, I'll unvote for you. 

Bonus style points if you're the last scum.  I mean seriously why are we asking you to choose :D 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:25:27 AM
I don't particularly care about hammering, I just want to finish the game today so I can relax and not have to deal with mafia anymore.

You punks are asking me to choose because you decided to sit on different wagons and make me choose like the jerks you are. >:< >:<
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 23, 2014, 01:28:47 AM
HERE'S A HINT FOR WHERE I WILL BE TONIGHT
I WILL BE AT MY HOUSE
WATCHING FOR YOU ASSHOLES TO COME FOR MY MONEY
I have some time so LETS GO REREAD D1 AGAIN AWWW YEAH.
(http://i.imgur.com/8C85fPi.png)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:29:34 AM
But scum!Bard and town!Bard would theoretically say the same thing "Conq is scum~"
There is actually the theoretical third option, "Conq didn't go anywhere," which is what I was thinking when I asked that question to begin with. But it would require...a bunch of unlikely stuff to line up.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 23, 2014, 01:32:23 AM
Conq, are you a third party Dreaming God and you're trying to choose the Townie so you can win tomorrow?
Is that what's going on here? If you're going to win tomorrow just kill Bardiche as he's clearly the tracker here.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 01:33:54 AM
##unvote

....
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:34:24 AM
If I were a third party I wouldn't particularly care about who I lynched as no scum in their right mind would nightkill me.  :V
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:35:24 AM
##Vote: BT
Bard can track me tonight or something. Laffo.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:35:44 AM
##Unvote
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 23, 2014, 01:36:07 AM
I'm pretty sure the scum have not been in their right mind this entire game..
24 MINUTES CONQ

Cut: Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah GIVE ME A SECOND
Cutx2: NO DAMNIT
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 01:36:48 AM
That's true.  They'd have to night kill confirmed town and almost confirmed town over probably town. 

Scum/ITT Conq could have hammered Bard or BT by now.  He's probably indecisive town. 

OK we have 30 minutes.  Lets talk this out and not accident hammer.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:37:07 AM
Okay, going to go with gut that BT saw he had to make the hard push on Bardiche today or he was sunk since in the me vs him 1v1 he was getting lynched.

##Vote: BT
Bardiche, if the game doesn't end, DO NOT NOT USE YOUR POWER BECAUSE "YOU WERE ASSUMING THE LAST SCUM WAS CONQ" or something dumb like that.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Conqueror on March 23, 2014, 01:38:15 AM
I have to go now. Let's hope setup spec wins the day.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 01:40:20 AM
We have a few more minutes.

##vote Bardiche

Because I have to believe town!Bard would actually have defended himself, and this!Bard didn't really do it. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 01:44:14 AM
Guys?  Guys? 

I'm alone here right? 

Sigh.

Don't make me hammer BT with one minute left because everybody just left. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 01:45:07 AM
Oh I see you there, Shadoweh. 15 minutes left. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 23, 2014, 01:45:45 AM
Votecount
BT (2): Bardiche, Conqueror
Bardiche (2): BT, Sky Paladin
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):

Not voting: Shadoweh

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~0.25 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 23, 2014, 01:46:21 AM
Because I have to believe town!Bard would actually have defended himself, and this!Bard didn't really do it.

Are you sure you aren't Scum?

This is what I mean by feeling demotivated from posting. Even if I write countless posts dedicated to explaining why I'm not Scum and defending my actions, people just won't read them and pretend they don't exist.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 23, 2014, 01:47:15 AM
Votecount
BT (2): Bardiche, Conqueror
Bardiche (2): BT, Sky Paladin
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):

Not voting: Shadoweh

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

You have ~0.25 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140323T13&p0=240&msg=Day+6)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 01:50:59 AM
I assume you're writing something and gonna hammer BT after you've said what you've wanted to. 

OK. 

If that's the case and the game isn't over...it's going to be Bard/Shadoweh/Conq. 

Bard, if you really are the tracker, I know you'll make the right choice.  The hard part will be convincing the last remaining towny that you're telling the truth.  Town!you needs to fight harder than this.  You're apathy and letting others fight for you is what got CF7 killed on day 1.  At least you've claimed. 

I always suspected Conq because he wasn't open with his list of dreams.  I would have thought he would have shared that with us if he could. 

Quote
Even if I write countless posts dedicated to explaining why I'm not Scum and defending my actions, people just won't read them and pretend they don't exist.
 
What I saw you do was minimum effort.  You only tried to rebuke some points, and Shadoweh actually hard defended you all day.  I didn't see -you- fight. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 23, 2014, 01:51:33 AM
I mean (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080853.html#msg1080853)
are you really (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081149.html#msg1081149)
going to pretend (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081158.html#msg1081158)
that all these (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081161.html#msg1081161)
posts were never (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081163.html#msg1081163)
made, because (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081245.html#msg1081245)
I didn't bother (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081346.html#msg1081346)
defending myself (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081347.html#msg1081347)
at all? (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081352.html#msg1081352)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 23, 2014, 01:52:55 AM
CAN YOU OR CAN YOU NOT FUCKING TRACK TONIGHT

I asked you a million times.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Shadoweh on March 23, 2014, 01:53:23 AM
Gee try not to sound too confident there Conq. -_-

HEY BT. I HAVE A GREAT NEW AVATAR FOR YOU.
(http://i.imgur.com/XgkeVTy.png)



##VOTE: BT
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 23, 2014, 01:56:02 AM
Because me going through all these previous games to argue that my weaknesses are perpetual weaknesses isn't putting in any effort at all? Should I have not spent any effort on arguing BT = Scum and just go on to defend myself only?

Please tell me what is "effort" to put into. I spent more than I'd like on Day 5 and Day 6 explaining again and again and again how I'm not Scum. I seriously do not know what you want from me considering you hardly ever respond to any posts I make.

Cut by hammer. Still posting.
Sky Paladin, how about you go fucking guess about it.

IF I CAN TRACK TONIGHT, SCUM MUST KILL ME
IF I CANNOT, SCUM CAN KILL SOMEONE ELSE AND MISLYNCH ME

HOLY FUCK SKY PAL WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THERE IS A GODFUCKINGDAMN GOOD REASON FOR NOT FUCKING ACQUIESCING TO YOUR GODDAMN DEMANDS
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 23, 2014, 01:58:19 AM
Anyway game's probably ended anyway. >_> Fuck's sake, too stressful.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 23, 2014, 01:59:10 AM
If there is a tonight I am going to be very frustrated.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Bardiche on March 23, 2014, 01:59:19 AM
Dormio come here and flip him
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 23, 2014, 02:00:18 AM
HAMMER SHUT UP.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Night 6
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 23, 2014, 02:09:08 AM
Final Votecount
BT (3): Bardiche, Conqueror, Shadoweh
Bardiche (2): BT, Sky Paladin
Conqueror (0):
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):

Not voting: Nobody

"You believe that I cannot remain unbiased if I am a participant in the competition?"
"Very well then, to appease your fears, I shall take my leave."
BT - Tokemichi Choujabaru, The Judge(Untargetable) was evicted from the game Day 6!
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Tomekichi_Choujabaru.jpg)
Quote
  • Fairness (Abnormality): You are physically incapable of bias, making you perfectly fair and impossibly impartial. Due to this fact nobody will bother with targeting you, rendering you immune to any and all actions.

It is now Night 6, you have 26 hours to send in any night actions that you may or may not have. (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140324T15&p0=240)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Night 6
Post by: BT on March 23, 2014, 06:43:57 AM
16) You may make one post that does not contain any game related information after dying within 24 hours of your death. This is the only exception that will allow you to talk at night. This is the only exception that will allow you to talk while dead.
bah!
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 24, 2014, 04:01:56 AM
"I suppose my fun ends here."
"At least this was quite a pleasing distraction from the monotony of eternal life."
Confronted by a shadowy figure, Conqueror simply laughed as she walked off the stage.
Conqueror - Najimi Ajimu, Anshin'in(Hated Dreaming God) was forcibly removed from the game Night 6!
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Najimi_Ajimu1.jpg)
Quote
  • Multiple Skill User (Not Equal): You hold in your possession an insurmountable number of abnormalities and minuses. In fact, you have 7,932,135,441,523,222 Abnormalities and 4,925,916,526,110,643 Minuses, for 12,858,051,967,633,865 skills in total. However, for this particular event, 10 should be more than enough. During the confirmation phase, please send the moderator an ordered list containing the following skills: Life Zero, Count Up, Dead Lock, Alibi Block, Give Up-Down, Hundred Gauntlets, Mirror Juvenile, Lip Service, Standing Ovation, Door to Door.
  • Natural Protection (Not Equal): You exist within everyone's heart. When people calm down and listen to the sounds of their own heartbeat, they are reminded of you. This infuriates them. As a result of this, you take ONE (1) less vote to lynch. This ability does not take effect in LYLO.

It is now LYLO. Town must lynch a non-town entity this day or face entering a situation where the town is unable to win.

The seventh day of the popularity contest has begun!

"How many people are dying today? Two, of course."
When the lynch threshold is reached, the player with the second highest number of votes will also be lynched. In the case of second place being tied, the player that reached that number of votes first will be the additional lynch.
The second lynch has been disabled as the game state has entered LYLO.

Votecount
Sky Paladin (0):
Shadoweh (0):
Bardiche (0):

Not voting: Everybody

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

You have ~76 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140327T19&p0=240&msg=Day+7)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Conqueror on March 24, 2014, 04:03:54 AM
AHAHAHAHAHA FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 04:04:39 AM
I'm a little jealous. 

After last game's debacle, nobody vote right away please >__>;  Let's try and sort this mess out. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 04:11:51 AM
I guess my main thoughts are:

1 - Bard changed his claim after hammer and the post wasn't deleted. 
Quote
HOLY FUCK SKY PAL WHY THE FUCK DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THERE IS A GODFUCKINGDAMN GOOD REASON FOR NOT FUCKING ACQUIESCING TO YOUR GODDAMN DEMANDS

Up until now, Bard always said that the reason he didn't post about his track/not track was because of a post restriction.  However, now it appears that he could have claimed all along, but didn't want to get himself shot.  This was actually the response I was fishing for when I said Bard wasn't defending himself properly.  Unfortunately he didn't say it until after hammer so I couldn't respond to it.  So I don't like it. 

2 - Scum know I want to lynch Bard so I can't see scum!Bard letting me live overnight.  Which means it's probably Shadoweh who assumed I would lynch Bard. 

Well I want to see what Bard has to say before I do any more. 

What did you do last night?  What did you see?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 04:28:11 AM
What the fuck? This is an unwinnable situation for Bard. What the hell were you thinking?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 09:44:47 AM
Geez, I'm not staying awake all morning waiting to find out what's going on in your head here. Don't hammer me while I'm asleep for once. Either of you. <_< Having Bard and Conq fight it out really seems like it would have been an easier sell for both of you. (It certainly would have worked for me.) I suspect this is a Supersonic attack and you're trying to make me hurt myself in my confusion one last time.

Seriously though if I wake up and town lost again I will scream at whichever of you is town.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 12:22:43 PM
>BT did not flip Scum
>Scum left you alive
Yeaaaah, gg Scum, and fuck you.

1 - Bard changed his claim after hammer and the post wasn't deleted. 
Up until now, Bard always said that the reason he didn't post about his track/not track was because of a post restriction.  However, now it appears that he could have claimed all along, but didn't want to get himself shot.  This was actually the response I was fishing for when I said Bard wasn't defending himself properly.  Unfortunately he didn't say it until after hammer so I couldn't respond to it.  So I don't like it. 

I didn't say I didn't post about that because of the restriction. What are you imagining now? Are you saying you're fishing for me giving a response that might have gotten me modkilled?


So from my perspective it's either Shadoweh, who's earnt a golden award for interactions with CF7 and Zakeri, or Sky Paladin, who'd have to be a double-killing Scum on being motivated.

I'm inclined off-hand to say it's Sky Paladin because I Believe In Shadoweh, and I seriously dislike his arguments from the other day with such gems as, "Bard didn't defend himself" and now "I said that because I wanted him to tell me whether or not he could track"; a Sky Paladin as Scum stands everything to gain from knowing the answer to that moreso than a Town Sky Paladin does. I remember he at some point posted a list of possibilities and I want to propose that a Scum!Sky Paladin intentionally left out an option:

Scum were confident they would not be tracked.

If I bought his Vanilla claim, then it's likely I wouldn't want to track him. (It'd be a waste.) After I revealed that I still had intended that Sky Paladin's been intent on fishing about my role and I am distrustful. A double-killing Scum on Motivation sounds absolutely ridiculous but this is Dormio we're talking about, and all of this makes 100% sense in my head.

I'm going to reread both of you before I place any vote.



I didn't do anything tonight.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 12:25:55 PM
Then again, there is no way Shadoweh is scum! and everyone was taken by surprise. Goddammit Shadoweh.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 12:32:23 PM
To be fair, it was pretty obvious by LYLO that I was. >_>
What a coincidence, I didn't see anything tonighht. You couldn't have at least visited me so I'd see where you were?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 12:40:16 PM
If I could've I probably still wouldn't've.

There is no easy mode. Everything is hard mode.

I can say at least the brawl from the other day has made me fiercely dislike Sky Paladin for comments such as these (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081572.html#msg1081572), or things like "despite my claims Bard can be explained away by 'is actually Tracker'" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081544.html#msg1081544). And are you actually being remorseful about shooting the easy mislynch (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081540.html#msg1081540) because instead we had yesterday's rollercoaster?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 12:42:03 PM
I REALLY LOVE MY CHOICE OPTIONS HERE
I TAKE BACK THAT SCUM TEAM IS RETARDED

Because causing two mislynches while giving me a headache meanwhile is impressive. Whoever loses, the last scum wins, imo.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 01:54:23 PM
Sky!scum would have shot Shadoweh last night because Conq/Bard would have been an easy mislynch of Bard. 

I actually think scum!Shadoweh because she felt I would be easily pushed to vote for you, and that's why she hit Conqueror instead of me.  Scum!Bard would hit me, and somehow I'm still alive, so I figured, scum!Bard would claim he tracked either me or Shadoweh and get a false guilty to provoke Sky vs Shadoweh. 

But that didn't happen. 

So I need to decide if Shadoweh really did gambit lynch her scumbuddy, or if this:
Quote
Town must lynch a non-town entity
means something. 

I'm going to reply to your points Bard so take it easy, have some chocolate, and let's enjoy the last few hours of this roller coaster.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 01:55:58 PM
@mod - if there is a no-lynch today, is it 100% chance of town loss?  /Obligatory LYLO speculation. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 24, 2014, 01:58:00 PM
@mod - if there is a no-lynch today, is it 100% chance of town loss?
Town must lynch a non-town entity this day or face entering a situation where the town is unable to win.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 02:02:59 PM
Right, thank you.  Sorry for asking what must seem like a retarded question, I just wanted to rule that out. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 02:04:12 PM
hrrng.  So let me get this straight.  One of you are ITP.  And one of you are scum.  But what kind of ITP doesn't make hits...
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 02:06:01 PM
Unless it's one ITP and no scum, and one of the no-flips (Serela/Oarfish) was scum. 

>__>;;

Look, I don't know.  I'm going to go with 'lynch the scum'. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 02:16:22 PM
Bard, I guess the main reason I was worried about you is because I felt like you were only refuting points that players had made, and not going the extra step to clear yourself.  I also felt that Shadoweh was doing a more credible job of defending you than you were, which was kind of odd.  I also didn't like your comments about wanting to be mod killed and wanting to get out of the game.  Lastly, I felt that your actions were not consistent.  You checked me on night 3 after town clearing me.  You didn't check me night 4 because of mysterious restrictions, and you didn't check me night 5. 
You kept saying that you couldn't discuss why you could/couldn't track.  Conquer and I both asked you in the previous day phase (Conqueror later retracted it) but I feel like a towny player would have jumped at the chance to try to be useful or to clear there name in some way.  At least, that is what I would have done. 

That's kind of how I do my scum tests.  I think "Given the information here, what would town!me have done?" and I try to find the player who deviates most from that. 

I would have tracked Conqueror last night.  I really expected you to say it.  And I would probably have lynched you for it, because that would mean you only couldn't act once in the whole game, which is kind of a non-existent restriction.  Instead you said about the only thing that I could buy, so, we have a game. 

I'm still not sure because it's a choice between Shadoweh killing her buddy but not killing me to win the game, and the choice of yesterday 'BT vs Bard' which is such a sweet, sweet easy option. 

But you did the right thing so now I have to re-read the whole damn game.  Dammit. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 02:41:10 PM
You kept saying that you couldn't discuss why you could/couldn't track.  Conquer and I both asked you in the previous day phase (Conqueror later retracted it) but I feel like a towny player would have jumped at the chance to try to be useful or to clear there name in some way.  At least, that is what I would have done. 

... You would've gotten yourself modkilled in favour of discussing the condition? That doesn't seem townie.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 02:50:32 PM
I feel like you've been pushing me about the modkill point unfairly. Being frustrated with the game and requesting an out isn't indicative of alignment, it's indicative of being frustrated. I get frustrated because I've got shit outside of Mafia games too, and they're not always happy shit.

I think it IS indicative of alignment that you say a "townie would've done something to get themselves modkilled instead of requesting it"─I feel like you were trying to push me into getting myself modkilled to "prove" how townie I am, precisely by doing so when it's already clear I'm frustrated. That's anti-Town, because Town doesn't benefit from modkills; it takes away control and flips, two things Town wants to retain at all points during the game.

There's no ITP, unless you want to argue the ITP could only kill every night once scum died. I'd buy that argument if no one died N6, but someone died, so there's scum.

Quote
hrrng.  So let me get this straight.  One of you are ITP.  And one of you are scum.  But what kind of ITP doesn't make hits...

I don't even how you come up with these gems. Dormio said either lynch non-Town or face unwinnable situation. This means the current situation is winnable. So if we lynch Scum, we win, because IF THERE IS AN ITP, they're not harmful to Town's wincon. If there's a Survivor or something.

Quote
Sky!scum would have shot Shadoweh last night because Conq/Bard would have been an easy mislynch of Bard. 
Quote
2 - Scum know I want to lynch Bard so I can't see scum!Bard letting me live overnight.  Which means it's probably Shadoweh who assumed I would lynch Bard. 
These are WIFOM. I know the second one argues in my favour, but it's still WIFOM and that's why I'm wary of it.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 03:45:28 PM
Quote
... You would've gotten yourself modkilled in favour of discussing the condition? That doesn't seem townie.

Of course I wouldn't have done such a thing.  I thought you were lying about the modkill if you discussed your track/not track capability.  I actually thought that you were using this reason "I will be modkilled" instead of the reason of "I dont want to give away the information to scum", which should have been your first motive.  Because your first stated reason was to avoid modkill instead of to hide information, I questioned your priorities and thought you were faking about a modkill. 

Quote
I think it IS indicative of alignment that you say a "townie would've done something to get themselves modkilled instead of requesting it"

I'll be honest I was pretty pissed with you.  I couldn't believe after how hard I had tried you were saying that.  It was the first time anybody had looked sideways at you and I was "I cannot believe he is throwing the towel in.  Fine, do it!  We think you are scum anyway."  I don't really want anybody modkilled because look how annoying it is.  I missed out vigging Serela for you because of it.  I was totally going to do it, it's in my QT as 'if I ever get to a vigshot like Shadoweh is teasing me, I'm putting it through Serela' and then Serela went pop and THEN I got the vigshot.  WHY.  Does Dormio vapourising him count? 

Anyway, I was angry with you.  I thought you were being a selfish jerk.  And I admit to being frustrated too.  I could see you were really frustrated and angry after hammer but it's not like I can send you *hugs*. 

Quote
I don't even how you come up with these gems.

If you ever see the shit we pull over on Megatokyo, you'll understand how.  Bastard role madness doesn't even begin to describe it.  We are talking some serious Event Horizon level of warp chaos.  Time travel mafia with three different town factions that are also all individual scum teams?  Games where players have 9+ actions and some of them have 20 or higher effective attacks and 30+ night lives?  Night actions where you have to spend lives to get addicted to the life-giving potions or die of starvation...  You have to have a special degree of bent to get through that.  Man, I'm just enjoying playing here where I don't have to network and try to infiltrate all the teams at once, and voting is done in public.  Aaaaaah.  It's so great.  I don't have to lie to everyone.  It's such a relief. 

Anyway;
Quote
These are WIFOM
It's not WIFOM if I am telling you what I would have done :V

But I digress; let me paraphrase from my QT on the previous night phase ramblings.  AKA more WIFOM. 

***
Who is scum?  Is it...
Bard - I'll be dead.  Bard can't allow a confirmed town Sky that wants him dead to contest LYLO with virtual town Shadoweh.
Shadoweh - Unclear.  She knows I think scum!Bard, so she may choose to keep Bard/Sky for the easy LYLO win.  In which case, Conq will die.  She may choose that confirmed town Sky is too big a risk though. 
Conquer - Reverse. Probably will hit Shadoweh actually because of the same Shadoweh scenario.  However I showed distrust of Conqueror near phase end so I think he would choose confirmed town over not confirmed town. 

So that's about a 4/6 chance of death.  Thats actually better odds than I expected since I thought it was nearer 90%.  Or maybe you know, it's just bargaining before loss :/ :/

***

Basically I can't see any realistic sensible situation where scum would have allowed a confirmed town Sky and a confirmed town Shadoweh to last til Lylo when they could have killed Shadoweh off two night phases ago, and the only reason to not hit her is because they were afraid of your tracker.  In which case they should have hit you (not SB), then Shadoweh.  Because they hit SB when it was tactically demanded and they hit NNR tactically to implicate me, and they hit Hikaru because he was confirmed town to Shadoweh and I.  They were tactical hits.  So they should have tactical hit Bard instead of SB, I think, if they were afraid of the tracker. 

So who is not afraid of the tracker - the one person who was already 'cleared' by the tracker; Shadoweh. 

I mean in what situation do scum ignore the confirmed towns and the town power roles and go for the players in the grey?  lalala one of the 'confirmed town' or 'power roles' is actually not a confirmed town/power role. 

Well let's look at that 'confirmed town'. 

Shadoweh;
I want to evaluate if she was forced to lynch Zak or not.  The main argument against it is that we already thought she was towny enough to vote her Kingy.  She didn't have to lynch her scumbuddy.  She could easily have mislynched Dan. 

Sky:
The main argument is that Sky announced 'Hey I got vig upgrade <3' and then shot Dan.  The main reason I shot Dan thinking scum was because he named CF7 and Zak as scums on day 1 which is a bit of a big coincidence.  I figured the only reason he would actually be so accurate is because he actually knew.  This is kind of the same argument against Shadoweh and myself, interestingly, because we both voted for CF7 and I pushed for a Zak lynch.  Except that Shadoweh hard bussed CF7 whereas I thought he was a mislynch~~ I didn't know for sure.  Did Shadoweh? 
Scum Sky would not have announced I got a bonus vigshot.  I would have killed Bard (because tracker hissss) and Shadoweh (confirmed town watcher hisssssssss).  I would have said I had an upgrade and then the next day say I got doc and had covered SB, so sad. 
The second reason for shooting Dan was because I knew if he was town alive in LYLO or the day-before-LYLO, we were going to lynch him and not have the giant dragged out conversation that we had to have. 

On a related note, Dan actually added Bard to his list of scumpicks on day 1 after being prompted by Conqueror, so he does have that going for him. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 03:54:11 PM
Oh right and that whole business with me being a vanilla town on day 2. 

Anyway apparently because I can be upgraded for one night that counts as not vanilla.  Well we can discuss that later~~~

I gave out all the role info I could. I don't have anything that says "If you share this then you and your goldfish will die", otherwise I would totally go "Bard is my PR bro" and we could lynch Shadoweh, feast on her corpse, and live happily ever after in Mother Russia with your stolen sub, you commie bastard.  No, I'm a common or garden variety vanilla town, which is hilarious because in my QT one of the first things I posted was "AHHH THANK GOD VT I CAN HAVE A NICE CALM RELAXING GAME" well that worked out well for me. 

So anyway. 

Let's make a TL;DR

I thought you were scum lying about your role restriction because I didn't believe that it was impossible for you to state if you could/could not track in advance.  And this situation turned out to be true; you posted about it and did not die.  So I will scour through the threads and show where you said this, and if I can't, then you can offer me up a big I told you so. 

Man I need to lay off the coffee.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 04:12:34 PM
Ah right, here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081161.html#msg1081161) it is. 

Quote
Because Scum don't need to know, and Town only needs to know what my results are. Isn't that obvious? Why the hell would I want to tell Scum, "Hey guys, you can do whatever tonight, it's totally cool; I can't use my ability"? What benefit does Town have from knowing whether or not I can Track? It doesn't do anything for you. "But Bard," I hear you say. "We can verify the truth of your words!" Given how inattentive most people are I'm amazed no one can think of what the condition is.

Oh man this crow is fucking delicious om nom nom. 

OK, never mind.  Actually, I'll apologise and you can tell me whatever you want to say. 

Bardiche, I'm sorry I didn't read that post correctly.  It's even worse because I quoted parts of it later.  I completely missed the first sentence and focused straight on the parts of it that I didn't agree with.  I am an idiot who unnecessarily added stress and frustration to your life.  I really am sorry for this screw up. 

BUT WAIT THERES MORE

I did come across this. 

Bard: (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080853.html#msg1080853)
Quote
You're proposing that Ninja Kill is put in specifically to prevent Shadoweh from seeing who kills her, unless the stars align and a) Sacchi targeted Shadoweh and b) Shadoweh correctly guessed the night kill afterwards and c) Scum actually use the ninja kill there. Shadoweh saying her power is a "General" means no one can inherit so basically the only situation in which a ninja kill would be useful according to your argument is if the above scenario happens and the stars align.

So anyway, look at the time, rocking 1 am again.  On a work night.  Up at 7.  Saaaaa. 

Bard, I'm sinking my case on you for tonight and I'll ISO Shadoweh in the morning.  If you're town, great, let's work this out.  If you're scum I guess you should hammer me overnight or something. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 04:20:41 PM
There is no ITP. >_> It just means if we no-lynch, scum wins. Jesus how do you do this.
I am quickly remembering why Sky being scum would be a monumental trip into insanity. Let's make this simple.

##Vote: Bardiche


Sky, if somehow you're scum and you've been posting those walls please hammer now so I can have my jaw drop repeatedly onto the floor.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 04:25:50 PM
No matter which way this goes it ends with me having white-knighted scum in some form. :/ I CAN SEE YOU'RE ONLINE HURRY UP AND FUCKING POST SO I CAN STOP GOING CRAZY OVER WHETHER YOU DID THIS KILL JUST TO SCREW WITH ME SKY.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 04:26:00 PM
This is me not hammering :/  Sorry.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 04:30:28 PM
I'm not saying I will never, ever, not vote Bard. It's just, 2 am here.  I didn't stay up so late for so long and have all my friends die just to throw it all away now. 

Sighduck
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 04:33:08 PM
I feel like I've put town's fate in the hands of a lunatic, and the only reason the lunatic is alive is because both of us saved him. >_> Bard said his track has a condition. I'm guessing 'I can only do itt when I'm not killing people' is the condition there. Alternatively it has a 'can't target scum' for when/if it passes onto Rawr.

Alternatively he lied about it being a track and forgot that he was crumbing Rolecop to me:
Out of these three I'd lynch Dan>Zakeri>Sacchi, but I feel like I should read BT/SB again. Slowly starting to look like everyone is Scum, but I believe in Shadoweh at least. I just can't see her doing anything untoward to people during the night except maybe send angry glares.
Because I can't think why else he would mention me watching him in some way. Sigh. Really shouldn't have lynched BT. I just wanted to believe.

I supose I should actually make the case on Bardiche's gameplay then. It's been quite silly.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 04:42:11 PM
That wasn't a crumb at all, Shadoweh. What.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 04:50:06 PM
Oh, it was just you professing your love and adoration for me while happening to mention how totally innocent I am at night, huh? I'm sure it was suposed to mean nothing. You're only nice to me when you're scum, Bard. The demotivation is pouring off of you, understandably from being in a role madness game where you've probably felt pressured having to unexpectedly fakeclaim since Day 1. Everyone else was trying to figure things out yesterday and you wanted to go play Payday because this is a lost cause to you.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 04:51:44 PM
It's not even a crumb, you're looking at shit that isn't even there, what the hell.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 04:54:42 PM
I'm saying the worst you can do is angry glares because you've talked about them in a Mafia game before, christ. I've been nice to you even without being scum. Lots of times. Are you basing a scum case on me being nice to you?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 05:00:01 PM
In fact, why even would I crumb rol?ec?op after already crumbing Tracker? That doesn't make sense.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 24, 2014, 05:01:09 PM
Make out already

Anyway Bard, I guess that probably means I'm town since otherwise I'd be going hammer gimme back my sub. 

Now I sleep.  Tomorrow I ISO.  Goodnight folks. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 05:02:47 PM
And if I "felt pressured" to fakeclaim since Day 1, why the hell would I pick Tracker as a fakeclaim?

Shadoweh are you scum trying to pressure Sky Pal into quickhammering me for you?

Quote
I did come across this. 

My line of logic there is that the argument for me being a Tracker is that a Ninja Kill in case stars align is just too stupid to even consider. Don't quote out of context.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 05:02:55 PM
I'm still shocked that Conq flipped town after proposing we lynch the Town counterwagon on Day 1. If you'd left him alive there's good odds I would have voted him, you know. >_>
Cut: Bard are you going to pretend you think I'm scum or keep admonishing me? :p Of course I'm not basing it on you being nice to me, that was a joke about how you refuse my proposals every game. I still want to believe Sky just doesn't realize he's won and just needs to hammer to win.

Scum interactions:
Mentions of Bard by CF7: Nope, none here.
Mentions of Bard by Zakeri: Four mentions.
Bard's thing almost looked like a good thing, but I'd hope he'd have let Serela post a little more before revealing that it's obviously not a thing. Still refusing to read Serela after proving how bad I am at it last game.
"Bard's thing sure looked like a thing" <_<
Actually now that I'm not glancing at the thread and instead reading it, I really don't like how Serela ended up using his role because Bard provoked him.
Not really a mention of Bard, he continues on about how Serela is Scummy after all.
Bard and Oarfish are Waltzing with how much they're going in circles around each other. I think it's safe to say that Kingault's poor play is less than half the reason people are voting Oarfish so one of them should probably go ahead and drop that point.
Admonishing without really doing anything about the Oarfish wagon, nat. And the last mention is literally "Hi Bard."

Conclusion: None of what Zak said is alignment indicative of Bard. If he thought the Serela thing was scummy he never seemed to have a scum read on Bard, even after Serela became obvious Town after CF7's lynch. Same with the Oarfish thing. And 'Bard's thing is a thing' is really sad that we let him get away with that. <_<
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 05:05:38 PM
##Vote: Shadoweh

Sky makes an excellent case for him being Town.

Shadoweh, I thought SKy was scummier than you and would have voted him, but given the lack of quickhammer on his side, it's unlikely he's scum then. That leaves you by process of elimination.

>_> Scum Self-Watcher is the most glorious thing ever if you actually trueclaimed, and killing Zak for massive towncred took balls.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 05:07:42 PM
Shadoweh are you scum trying to pressure Sky Pal into quickhammering me for you?
Honey I had all night to do that and waited for you instead. Trust me, I am an expert at giving candy to babies, and rule #1 is not to let the other person post. Are you going to ask me to make sense of your actions now? Tracker or Rolecop, I think you had a good idea that you couldn't just pretend you hadn't done anything.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 05:11:33 PM
Quickvoting Shadoweh flipped scum in balanced game of mafia (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,9126.msg622563.html#msg622563), whereas normally Shadoweh in a LYLO situation doesn't try to force  a quick lynch on LYLO I don't think. Unless you have evidence otherwise but I'm p. sure you're not normally so impulsive, and with Sky Pal talking of lynching me this truly could have been a good attempt to just push the lynch through before he changes his mind through reading and reasoning.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 05:13:50 PM
Kill on Sacchi makes sense now, too; with Shadoweh already knowing what she gets on being powered up and deeming it not useful enough, obviously she'd prevent Town from being powered up further.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 05:25:25 PM
LOL The other person was confirmed town that game, of course I quickvoted the other person. This isn't even impulsive, quickvoting would have been 'oh Sky Paladin you are so handsome and your posts convinced me seven hours ago, let's kill Bardiche for Justice!!!!' Buuuut, if you're really going to question my belief in Vote up or Shut up..

I DON'T ALWAYS GET TO LIVE TO LYLO (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13138.msg872134.html#msg872134)
BUT WHEN I DO I LIKE TO MAKE IT REALLY SHORT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12618.msg834136.html#msg834136)

Votes make you a cop in LYLO. Besides, Sky is just trying to hard to ever be scum. As opposed to your start of trying to lynch Serela just because and sinking into a deep depression the likes of all humanity could not pull you out of.

I'm p sure you killed Sacchi because he was obvtown, btw. I didn't read to see if he was suspicious of you.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 05:26:15 PM
...Oh shit it's like a half hour later then I'm suposed to leave BYE
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 05:28:39 PM
Quote
As opposed to your start of trying to lynch Serela just because and sinking into a deep depression the likes of all humanity could not pull you out of.

I didn't sink into depression until everyone was all, "LET'S LYNCH THE TRACKER". You pretend my depression is game-related when it isn't. I KNOW WE LIKE MAKING SHIT ARGUMENTS, but that one is the most shit yet. Next you'll tell me I'm emotionally unstable because ~Mafia~ instead of ANYTHING that could have happened/be happening outside of it.

Seriously, leave my depression out of it. It has nothing to do with the game.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 24, 2014, 09:02:51 PM
Votecount
Bardiche (1): Shadoweh
Shadoweh (1): Bardiche
Sky Paladin (0):

Not voting: Sky Paladin

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

You have ~59 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140327T19&p0=240&msg=Day+7)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 10:13:56 PM
Geez, I'm sorry. It's not like I know what's going on outside the mafia and you haven't mentioned anything before.
You're still scum though. You're getting mad at me for saying you're scum For The Wrong Reasons. If you really thought I was scum you probably wouldn't be getting mad at me, knowing I was doing my best to fling crap at you so I could win. I do genuinely think as scum people get affected by IRL excuses to not post in the mafia more. As Town it's a good distraction to throw your mind into. As Scum the apathy just makes a person want to lay down and sleep until the game is over.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 24, 2014, 11:34:26 PM
I always get mad at Scum for making shit cases. Your later part of arguments is a Personality Thing. I've posted by far the most in this game, how can you accuse me of being apathetic.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 24, 2014, 11:54:33 PM
I'm not going to check if that's true, but I suspect it isn't. Activity is one thing this game hasn't been lacking in on all sides.
Maybe apathetic is the wrong word. I know you've done some pretty angry things as town, but I don't really believe you as Town would have been so upset yesterday at the prospect of being lynched. For Scum it was a game over out of your control, headed into a next day with literally nothing but people who want to lynch you.

This situation is an act of desperation. Leaving the two 'towniest' people alive in the hopes that they'll have a bout of temporary insanity because quote unquote no one ever leaves the townie people alive, making them suspect each other. I don't remember the term for it anymore but it's the same reason why I claimed the craziest results in Urist Fortress, to make people think they're so crazy they might be true. All it takes is looking over this game and the state we were left in to know it looks nothing like my scumgame. I'd say I'd have taken Conq to LYLO over Sky Paladin, but if I were Actually Scum (tm) Conq would have died 5 days ago.

I'm really just killing time until Sky P wakes back up. And trying to cockblock your admittedly potent AtE of the same flavor that made me never want to lynch you ever.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 12:07:41 AM
Votecount
Bardiche (1): Shadoweh
Shadoweh (1): Bardiche
Sky Paladin (0):

Not voting: Sky Paladin

With 3 alive, it takes 2 to lynch.

You have ~56 hours remaining (http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20140327T19&p0=240&msg=Day+7)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 12:37:15 AM
I've been awake for awhile, I'm reading the games you and Bard posted. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 01:07:53 AM
While I'm reading, do any of you have examples of Bard losing his shit and asking for a modkill (or basically a precedent for his Day 5/Day 6 antics) that I could consider? 

Currently I have to decide which is more likely:
Shadoweh bussed her first scumbuddy day 1 for no real reason then murdered her second scumbuddy a little later because that's just how she rolls
or
Bard thought 'I bet I can convince Sky to lynch Shadoweh' after getting all of his scum team to vote Serela day 1. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 01:13:07 AM
Shadoweh bussing her buddies isn't that unlikely. Scum!Shadoweh'd have less issues explaining herself if she lynched Zakeri instead of anyone else.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 01:21:46 AM
Uhm, the last time I remember him losing it was Diablo Mafia when he and UK got modkilled as Town.
I think you'd be better off comparing to his town game as GlaDOS or in Mirai Nikki. I don't even remember the last time Bard was scum, I'm looking for it now. >_>

I'd have less issues winning if I didn't lynch my buddy too. :p
I'd also be quite silly to limit my own options the way I did. Sacchi was mentioned a few times as a possible lynch, but my own roleclear of him is what put him off the table in the first place. I also had no reason to kill Bard's neighbour who wanted nothing but to tunnel on a townie, but I suspect Bard didn't want to talk in private any longer.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 01:28:28 AM
Considering NNR didn't want to lynch me, why would I want him dead?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 01:31:22 AM
rofl Bard's last scum game is I Don't Want To Remember Angel Beats Mafia (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12964.msg853915.html#msg853915) where he replaced Rawr.
That sure was a game. I'd be pretty mad too if I replaced in to be a Town Mason and found out Rawr had actually claimed masons with his scum partner.

I don't get why you killed him either to be honest. I don't know why you killed RAWR either. I do think it was partially to disguise you and Zakeri staying alive, strong players hiding in the crowd. That's just NOT MY STYLE. I probably would have failed to kill BT. <_<
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 02:20:57 AM
>Kitten4u alive with Shadoweh
Yeah, absolutely not your style.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 02:36:30 AM
Kitten4u replaced into Polaris's slot on the second-last day of ABGoM. There were also something like four confirmed towns because it was an open setup and I literally couldn't kill her and win. However, during the beginning of that game, we tried to kill Kiro, the most obvious town, and then I killed UncertainKitten for trying to lynch me, before my kills were forced by The List of Doom. So yes, that game is a perfect example, thank you Bardiche. <3
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 03:32:10 AM
Regardless, Sky Pal hasn't hammered, and unless he's scum trying to fuck with us you must still be the last scum. I honestly cannot imagine any other outcome.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 03:37:14 AM
I think being meta-self-aware in your way is enough to actively circumvent it. And considering people weren't sold on my Towniness, I'm still your perfect mislynch to keep alive. Especially considering for all that people tout me as a "strong" player, my rate of "scum caught" isn't actually super high.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 03:42:12 AM
Well if we're going to talk about who 'must' be scum from our perspectives we're not going to get very far. You have to be scum from mine. </3
Paladin, are you going to reread old games all day and leave me here to chat with my evil Hubby? Not that I mind getting personal time with Bardiche-chan..
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 03:42:56 AM
Please do not affix atrocious things to my name.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 03:51:52 AM
I finished reading the old games, right now I'm re-reading this one/ISO-ing Shadoweh/re-ISOing Bard. 

For me the thing is;

Well

It's just that both scum voted alongside you.  What do you think?  It looks so bad. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 03:52:28 AM
Why Shadoweh Is Scum:
Tongue in cheek, but obv vanilla fakeclaim softclaim in confirmation phase, scum!!! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1076814.html#msg1076814)

But jokes aside.
Shadoweh declares Townies quickly (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077160.html#msg1077160), whereas the only ones who have any certainty of alignment are masons and Scum. We've established there are no masons. That leaves only one option.
And for all other claims Shadoweh does still admonish CF7 here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077288.html#msg1077288).
And in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077881.html#msg1077881), Shadoweh says that if, "Kingault were my buddy there'd be a lot more honk honk". In other words, Shadoweh's saying that she'd bus her own scumbuddy. CF7 hyper bus is go?
Shadoweh's choice of Day 2 is poorly articulated (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078112.html#msg1078112) other than that she's gunning for someone on the CF7 wagon. And then, until here (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078418.html#msg1078418), Shadoweh doesn't make any mention of SB. Or any wagon analysis. Or any scumhunting. Aside from saying you can be VT.

Fuck, no time. Finishing later.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 03:53:52 AM
I can't think anything other than do you honestly think a Scum!Bard and Scum!Zakeri team would just pile on a counter-wagon to CF7 together? I think they just latched onto the first wagon that a "strong" player made in hopes it'd actually work.

And my case on Serela was pretty damn good. Can't fault them. I still stand by it.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 04:11:11 AM
Your case on Seerela was certainly magical.
Serela posts since my vote on him:
Response to ##JUSTICE!!! (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077126.html#msg1077126)
General speculation on the votecount error and gameplay explanation (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077142.html#msg1077142)
Clarifying the Ascetic role (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077158.html#msg1077158)
Vote on Shadoweh 'mostly joking', silly to have Town read on Serela (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077164.html#msg1077164)

The two posts preceding that are:
Jokevote on ActionDan (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077088.html#msg1077088)
and
Questioning what's strange about Ascetic claim (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077094.html#msg1077094)

Looking at these posts, you can say that exactly 0% of his posts constitute scumhunting or attempting to weed out the liars from the honest. Instead we have jokevote garbage even after the game had sufficiently entered a serious enough stage to get things done. More criminally even after I voted Serela for perpetuating jokevote phase he still puts a vote on Shadoweh "mostly joking". And that it's silly to read Serela as Town.

IDK man, that sounds like a Freudian slip to me and that's fine enough at this stage.
Serela posted, also he dared to ignore me voting him and telling him RVS was over. Seems legit, let's bag this scumbag. (Zak wasn't even sheeping you he was voting Serela over DARING TO USE HIS ROLE after you prodded him so :V)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 04:16:29 AM
I was actually referring to this (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077015.html#msg1077015) vote count from RVS. 

NekoNekoRex (3): Shadoweh, CF7, Zakeri

So I can't use 'There is no way scum would have all voted for the same person' because they evidently did it. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 04:39:53 AM
What do you think is scummier, three people voting together randomly when votes don't matter, or the three people who were left on the counterwagon to scum after everyone else who has flipped town fled the counterwagon? You're comparing two completely different gamestates and equating them. <_<
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 05:05:16 AM
ISO of Shadoweh;
RVS (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1076915.html#msg1076915) NNR.  First votecount of the day:  NekoNekoRex (3): Shadoweh, CF7, Zakeri.  Oh.  Was it really that simple all along? 
Instant (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077229.html#msg1077229) vote on CF7 without explanation.  Like about 90 seconds.  #2 seat on the bus~~~ 
Clarification (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077245.html#msg1077245) of case. 
Gives (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077288.html#msg1077288) CF7 an out. 
//CF7 at L-2.  Zak currently on CF7 bus. 
Mentions (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077430.html#msg1077430) intent to re-investigate CF7 re: King's lazybones vote. 
Adds (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077510.html#msg1077510) more weight to CF7 lynch. 
Response (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077535.html#msg1077535) to CF7.  Questions CF7. 
Weak (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1077787.html#msg1077787) defence of her CF7 vote after Conqueror challenges.  To be fair it's hard to defend apathetic CF7. 
//Challenged by Kingault.
//Conq/Shadoweh chat continues.  Main points; Shadoweh hasn't made a strong case but made points on Kingault and Serela, so is her CF7 vote a vote park?
//Shadoweh prompts claim from CF7. 
(night 1) - will later claim to have watched self/seen Bard. 
(Day 2)
Pursues (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078112.html#msg1078112) SB for his 'CF7 is obvtown' comment. 
Distracted (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078122.html#msg1078122) by tasty Sky wagon. 
Empty content post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078250.html#msg1078250)/information instead of analysis. 
Shadoweh's (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078345.html#msg1078345) solidarity.
Push for Oarfish. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078418.html#msg1078418)
Definition (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078640.html#msg1078640) of reporting lol.  Shadoweh not scumhunting. 
Second (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078818.html#msg1078818) "I'm drinking, not contributing" post in a row. 
//Oarfish explode.  Night 2/Day2 skipped. 
(Night 3) - Shadoweh watches self. 
(Day 4)
Telegraphs (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079567.html#msg1079567) intent to QueenLynch Dan. 
Roles (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079679.html#msg1079679) post.  Pretty accurate. 
Shadoweh (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079741.html#msg1079741) queened with 1v1 lynch option of Zak or Bard?
Reads (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079749.html#msg1079749) Conq, Zak, BT only. 
Speculation (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079832.html#msg1079832) post.  Reasonable. 
//Questions Zak. 
//Questions SB. 
//BT, Sky, Conq all say 'lynch Zak' for his poo claim.
//Dan claims.  Nobody questions it. 
Leaves (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1080010.html#msg1080010) an out for Zak.  Reasonable, though.  Nobody likes being wrong with a one-shot-lynch. 
Tests (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1080023.html#msg1080023) feelings for lynch-a-Conq. 
//Zak sui-claims for no reason. 
Final Shadoweh (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1080089.html#msg1080089) thoughts before blow up Zak. 
(End day 4)
(Night 4) - target self
(Day 5)
//No significant content from Shadoweh except roleblocked
//Serela eplode
(night 5) - target self
(Day 6)
Claim. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080724.html#msg1080724)
Noncontent post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080738.html#msg1080738)
Vote for BT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080773.html#msg1080773) because it's not Sky, Conqueror, or Bard. 
Shadoweh (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080830.html#msg1080830) discredits possibility of ninja to track herself, umm actually should have lynched her here imo. 
Claims action (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080835.html#msg1080835) is 'general'. 
Defends Bard (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080954.html#msg1080954). 
Action analysis post. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080954.html#msg1080954)
Defend self. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1080979.html#msg1080979)
Empty unvote. (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081011.html#msg1081011)
Start (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081159.html#msg1081159) of many defend Bard pots. 
Case on BT (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16601.msg1081253.html#msg1081253) that ultimately is setup spec.  BT flipped town. 
//Hammer BT

***
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 05:16:18 AM
You know, when you ISO someone, it just confirms your own paranoia.
I swear to god if you lynch me I will never let you live it down. The reason I wasn't 'scumhunting' on Day 2 was because I was busy STOPPING A BULLSHIT LYNCH ON YOU BASED ON YOU CLAIMING SOMETHING SCUM WOULDN'T CLAIM. Holy fuck, if you of all people want to lynch me for not lynching you.
My only regret is not continuing to be blissfully drunk today. Look, I made you some cases.

Shadoweh is Town:
VOTED SCUM. REFUSED TO GET OFF SCUM DESPITE BEING ATTACKED FOR IT BY TOWN-CONQ.
THEN LYNCHED SCUM. ALL BY HERSELF. AFTER PRESSURING HIM INTO CLAIMING MORE THEN 'I CAN VIG TOMORROW' I LITERALLY CONTROLLED THE LYNCH AND USED IT TO LYNCH SCUM. END OF FUCKING STORY.

Bardiche is Scum:
Case on Serela based on because he was scum and he could.
'CF7 is a newbie, do not want to lynch'
From previous thing I quoted, prefered Dan to Zakeri-lynch, Sacchi as third option, possible BT and SB too, fuck let's keep everyone as suspects!

You are talking yourself into ignoring your own feelings and cases because you think I'm trying to outsmart you. I'm not actually that smart. You're here because the only way we can lose this game is if one of us votes the other for being 'Too Confirmed'. This isn't hard. Lynch Bardiche.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 05:23:47 AM
Story of scum!Shadoweh:

Day 1 - votes for NNR and sees both scumbuddies hop on the wagon.  Hisses at them to stop being obvious.  Votes CF7 for awful vote after NNR countervotes him.  Attempts to provoke CF7 to actually do something but he doesn't and so has to die in the bum. 
Night 1 - Kill Rawr because he is null.  Target self with some ability. 
Day 2 - Chases SB, but then Defends Sky_Paladin because "Lets not lynch a vanilla when we could get a role."  Oarfish explodes. 
Night 2 - /skip
day 3/ skip
night 3 - Hits NNR to implicate Sky. 
day 4 - Forced to lynch Zak because of awful role claim/can't get away with lynch of Zak or Dan after all. 
Night 4 - Tactical hit on SB because roleblockercop. 
Day 5 - Serela explode before anything else. 
Night 6 - Tactical hit on Hikaru who is confirmed town and also not upgrading Shadoweh anymore. 
Day 7 - Choosing who to take into LYLO. 
Shadoweh had to choose between Conquer, BT, Bard and Sky.  She knows that both Conqueror and Sky think it's a choice between BT and Bard.  But if town lynches Bard, and she can't hit BT because he is night immune, then LYLO would be Shadoweh, BT, and either Sky or Conqueror.  Sky has ISO'd Conq two times and has come up town, but Conq has also shown distrust of Shadoweh.  Also, Conq is dreaming god - no idea what the next day's dream is.  Randomness can't be planned for. 
If she lynched BT, she could hit whoever she pleased. If she hit Sky, then it would be Bard/Conqueror/Shadoweh.  Conq has shown distrust of Shadoweh and Bard knows he isn't scum.  That's a very risky LYLO for Shadoweh.  If she hits Conqueror, it should have been a straight lynch of Bard by Sky. 

So the least risk option would have been a hit on Conqueror last night. 

***

Story of scum!Bard
Day 1 - RVS vote for NNR.  Hisses at his scumbuddies for voting along with him.  Ironically will revote at phase end.  Tunnel on Serela, try for Serela counterwagon.  Fail. 
Night 1 - Hit Rawr because he is null and it wont go back to anybody.  Targets Shadoweh with non-fatal action of some type, probable roleclop. 
Day 2 - Stops tunneling Serela.  Defends Sky.  Votes Oarfish (explode). 
Skip night 2/day 3. 
Day 4 - Sensible promote of Shadoweh.  Asks for Dan lynch over Zak. 
Night 4 - Tactical hit of SB. 
Day 5 - Serela explode.  Sweet justice. 
Night 5 - Tactical hit of confirmed town Hikaru. 
Day 6 - Lynch of not!me over me. 
Night 7 - Hit Conq because ???

***

Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 05:31:04 AM
Conq would not have voted me. :V You do not know him very well if you think that was him being paranoid. You on the other hand, are unpredictable. I wouldn't want you anywhere near LYLO. (And Conq would have died 5 nights ago so etc.) I don't kill people for being null, I kill them for being threats. You've been spending all day rereading my games and you think between Bard/Conq/BT Town I chose to shoot Rawr? I am loathing you.

Also I asked Sacchi to upgrade you. I'm p sure he would have upgraded me again if I asked him. I thought I might actually die, for once in a lifetime, so someone else was a better choice.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 05:36:50 AM
It's just that I had so much stuff on Bard and you defended him so well I can't see how I can lynch him. 

I actually think the RVS hilarity at the start is more telling than where the votes ended up.  Except, both Bard and you voted for NNR along with Zak and CF7 so I actually think it's null.  I can't use it as a discriminating factor because you both did it.  You both defended me on day 2, so I can't use it as a discriminating factor.  You both voted BT, Bard because he had to, you because of your case. 

What's different is you voted for CF7, he did not.  You lynched Zak, he would have lynched Dan.  Those are the only effective differences before today. 

I need a case on Bard - or Shadoweh - that isn't something both of you did. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 05:43:23 AM
"You voted and lynched scum and he didn't and wouldn't have." GOD DAMNIT SKY
LISTEN TO ME, I AM YOUR AMAZONE WOMB GODDESS HERE. I was wrong and I should have listened to you earlier. And to BT. I make really stupid decisions as town sometimes. But if you're going to tell me the only important difference between our play is one of us was on the scum and one of us wasn't and preface that by sounding like that's not a huge fucking difference. I do not know what would convince you. Even when it comes to defending you, Bard was following my lead and buddying up to me so hard that wedding bells were ringing. Because I am Townie Fucking Obvtown.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 05:56:35 AM
Quote
Even when it comes to defending you, Bard was following my lead and buddying up to me so hard that wedding bells were ringing.

~Timezones~. Had I been the first to catch it I still would have insisted the same. This argument is meaningless since you can't prove it one way or the other.
Just stomping your feet and going "I AM TOWN I AM TOWN" doesn't mean it's true. And it isn't. Besides, "Bardiche is the waifu of my heart" (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078418.html#msg1078418) is pretty fierce buddying on your part. More than any "buddying" I've done to you.

One thing I caught during continued reading:
Shadoweh wants O4rfish dead for suspecting her (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078537.html#msg1078537). It can't get any clearer than that. Referring to this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1078418.html#msg1078418) again, note Shadoweh's case on O4rfish is what seems to be PoE and "I hope O4rfish has a scummy day". Sky Paladin, maybe look beyond the actions and more towards the motivations. Where I plainly pointed out what I thought was scummy about O4rfish and the entire game have consistently been building cases and putting in effort to show my arguments, Shadoweh's been skimping over everything going all "this person is town" and "this person is Scum"─recall CF7. Shadoweh voted him "because everything is terrible" and then stuck with it. Made a post about "looking into CF7 in depth" where CF7 hardly even posted. That's rather inattentive of Town; how do you look at someone "in depth" through, what, three two-liners or so? CF7 hardly posted much if anything.

Last post I made a mention of Shadoweh opening D2 with an arbitrary SB vote (voting the weakest link/easiest mislynch?), when she jumps onto O4rfish (next easy mislynch as a wagon was forming), she doesn't give any reasons as for why O4rfish over SB now.

Also.

Quote
I can't say I've paid any real attention to BT and my angry stares at Conq have turned into blissful snores.
>angry stares
obv shadoweh trying to crumb traqr omggg

Being facetious here but I honestly think this may be why I used that specific term, that I can't imagine Shadoweh doing anything but "angry stares". Because she wrote it herself.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 06:01:35 AM
Also, in this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079526.html#msg1079526) Shadoweh admits that she was just pushing for anyone Not Sky Paladin. If that isn't buddying up hard to you I don't know what is, Sky Pal. In hindsight I can't believe I didn't notice this before and let her get away with it. She further buddies up to Conq here with the "mindlink" nonsense (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079832.html#msg1079832).

I like this post (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,16555.msg1079871.html#msg1079871) best. I think Scum innately have issues finding people genuinely scummy. Shadoweh admits she doesn't find anyone scummy. She finds everyone Town. That's a severe lack of healthy Townie paranoia and I know a bunch of people have issues with making bullshit cases on Town when they know for sure it's a Townie.

I'm going to propose Shadoweh is one of them.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 06:04:30 AM
Shadoweh's attempts at controlling the LYLO here is also just to throw tantrums and be yelling instead of trying to argue and reason why she isn't the Scum but I am. I think it's because she honestly knows I'm not Scum and can't make the case.

Like she hasn't been doing all game. Except on CF7, who was Scum. And she knew it. Because she was his buddy.

Hard bus like fuck. Balls the size of Canada.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 06:12:46 AM
Sure I can. The proof is that I said 'there is a likely way that he can be VT and telling the truth' and pushed it until everyone got off the easily lynched person, and then you came in way after this was achieved to agree that he wouldn't claim VT. So one of us stopped a town lynch from happening, and the other jumped onto the cool kids bandwagon. Too bad if you 'would have' done the same thing. Close only counts in Horseshoes and Hand Grenades.

"Gosh Sky Pal, if this isn't Shadoweh being nice to you I just don't know what is!" I have never had issues calling easy lynches scummy as scum. I find Townies and work my way from there, not crazy Everyone is Scum paranoia. I've also made the case at least three times today, it's as simple as you avoiding calling your partners scummy and then being forced to endure being targetted until today. I'm sorry I decided I didn't want to kill them all with you Bard, but I promised I would catch all the scum this game, and that includes you.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 06:16:38 AM
I've re-ISO'd both of you, just reading only this time. 

I can't make a good case based on role shenanigans except that ages ago I said it was a 1 v 1 versus Shadoweh and Bardiche, and what do you know, it is. 

I can't make a good case based on interactions because Bard has made lots of cases on several different people whereas Shadoweh really only made cases on people who were actually scum. 

I can't make a case based on votes because you both voted along side scums >.>;;

I can't make a case based on playstyle because you both raged at some point. 

So in the end I'm going to go with gut, and I am trying to explain my feelings so that I don't look like an idiot. 

Having re-read your posts, thinking "My name is Bard and I am town" and "My name is Shadoweh and I am town", I feel like Bard has done the most to interrogate and try to solve the mystery.  Even though he was wrong more often than Shadoweh was, the one who seems most genuine and asked sensible questions was Bard.  Maybe it's just because Shadoweh is passive aggressive a lot, and I think that's stalling/scummy. 

Anyway I am sure we can argue back and forth all day and not come to a good decision.  I'm just a vanilla town, what do I know. 

##vote Shadoweh
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Day 7 LYLO
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 06:18:45 AM
HAMMER SHUT UP
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 06:42:08 AM
Final Votecount
Shadoweh (2): Bardiche, Sky Paladin
Bardiche (1): Shadoweh
Sky Paladin (0):

Not voting: Nobody

"Excuse me, but we aren't going to make any money like this."
"If we don't stop whoever is rigging this popularity contest, we'll lose all support from our sponsors."
"Don't you understand that your stupid justice is going to make us all poo-"
Before Shadoweh could finish her argument, she was silenced by Sky Paladin's righteous justice.
Shadoweh - Mogana Kikaijima, Swimming Miser(Watcher) was brought to justice D7!
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Mogana_Kikaijima-1.jpg)
Quote
  • Ex-Treasurer (General): Money can buy you anything and everything. Naturally, as a result of this belief, you take very good care of your own money. Since you're always keeping one eye on your own funds, you will be aware of everyone that dares to visit you during the night.

"Hmph. Good riddance."
"Did she really expect to get away with her wicked ways?"
"Justice will always prevail. No matter what the cost."
Satisfied with the justice that he had just delivered, Sky Paladin failed to notice that somebody was sneaking up behind him.
Sky Paladin - Myouri Unzen, Monster Child(Vanilla Townie) was endgamed D7!
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Myouri_Unzen-1.jpg)

"I... I did it. I won!"
Bardiche simply stood there atop the mountain of corpses he had created.
Though he had the blood of his friends on his hands, he had won.
With nobody left to compete with, he was undoubtedly the most popular character in the series.
Bardiche - Zenkichi Hitoyoshi, Student Council President(Roleclop) won the game D7!
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Zenkichi_Hitoyoshi.png)
Quote
  • <REDACTED> (General): <REDACTED>
  • Blood Ties (General): Though you may not want anything to do with her at times, you still love your mother and maintain a good relationship with her. As a result, you know that Hitomi Hideyoshi is in this game and may communicate with her at any time here (http://quicktopic).
  • Parasite Seeing (Abnormality): Parasite Seeing is an abnormality you gained as a gift from Anshin'in after having lost your eyesight. You can use this abnormality once per night to see what a player of your choice sees through their own eyes, giving you full knowledge of any abilities that they may have. You may not use this ability in conjunction with any of your other abilities.
  • Combat Expert (General): As a result of having been by Medaka's side for many years, you've trained your body to the point where your physical strength easily exceeds a regular human's as well as becoming familiar with various combat disciplines. As a result of this training, you may target a player every night and kill them. You may not use this ability in conjunction with any of your other abilities. <REDACTED>
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Winners
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 06:42:14 AM
Bardiche - Zenkichi Hitoyoshi, Student Council President(Rolecop) has won the game!
CF7 - Mukae Emukae, Rainbow Rose Transfer Student(Jack of all Kills) has won the game!
Zakeri - Youka Naze, Black-White(Minus Backup) has won the game!
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Quicktopics
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 06:42:19 AM
Mod QT (http://quicktopic.com/50/H/vpKbm47CS9F)
Scum QT (http://quicktopic.com/50/H/9YaFBfung2Cw)
Neighbourhood QT (http://quicktopic.com/50/H/V23xSH7yBTe)
Graveyard (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/VfxrrphfRbSU)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Role PMs: Town
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 06:42:25 AM
Gagamaru Chougasaki (♂) - Minus: Can cause all night actions that target himself to also affect someone else (Motivated to stop the action from affecting himself)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Gagamaru Chougasaki, Unexpected Accident(Action Reflector)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Gagamaru_Chougasaki.jpg)
People are treating the popularity contest like a game, toying with the results to meet their own ends. And everybody knows that games are a complete waste of time and the reason for humanity's decline in productivity. And so, you will purge the world of these gamers.
Gagamaru Chougasaki placed 14th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

------

Hansode Shiranui (♀) - Minus: Motivator (Cannot be motivated)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Hansode Shiranui, Food Enthusiast(Motivator)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Hansode_Shiranui.jpg)
Ahyahyahyahyahya! Behind your cheerful demeanour lurks your darker self. Not that anybody is going to see it, you work from the shadows after all. But, lately, somebody else has been intruding on your territory by rigging the popularity polls. You aren't going to let some punks do as they please, you'll teach them who rules Hakoniwa Academy.
Hansode Shiranui placed 8th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

------

Hitomi Hitoyoshi (♀) - Abnormal: Neighbourhood with Zenkichi (Motivated to become a bodyguard for Zenkichi)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Hitomi Hitoyoshi, MILF(Neighbour)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-HitomiHitoyoshi.jpg)
Zenkichi has managed to get himself into a mess again, hasn't he? No matter how much he grows, it seems like your boy just can't keep himself out of trouble. Ah well, you better do your best to help him out and keep him on the right track.
Hitomi Hitoyoshi placed 25th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

------

Kiruko Tachiarai (♀) - Abnormal: Cannot act for a day/night phase after performing an action. (Motivated to be able to act when she would not normally be able to)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Kiruko Tachiarai, Sleeping Lazy(Lethargy)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Kiruko_Tachiarai.png)
Hmm? Is something going on? You're meant to actually do something as the chairwoman of the Election Management Committee? Why can't they just sort it out by themselves and let you rest in peace?
Kiruko Tachiarai placed 15th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

------

Medaka Kurokami (♀) - Abnormal: Abnormal Backup (Motivated to gain motivated version of every ability)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Medaka Kurokami, Little Princess(Abnormal Backup)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Medaka_Kurokami.jpg)
Look at the fools worrying about their popularity rankings. If only they were as popular as you and didn't have to worry. But, alas, not everybody can place... 6th?! What is the meaning of this?!
Medaka Kurokami placed 6th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

------

Mogana Kikaijima(♀) - Special: Self-watcher (Motivated to watch a target of her choice)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Mogana Kikaijima, Swimming Miser(Watcher)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Mogana_Kikaijima-1.jpg)
Money is power. You refuse to take action unless money or friends are involved. This time, it's about the money. The integrity of the popularity contest could potentially affect the show's profits and, in turn, your paycheck. You cannot allow for somebody to put your pay at risk.
Mogana Kikaijima placed 12th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

------

Misogi Kumagawa (♂) - Minus: Jailer/1-Shot Governor (Motivated to become a selective Jailer/Day extender)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Misogi Kumagawa, Defective Product(Falsifier)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Misogi_Kumagawa.jpg)
「What a wonderful event!」
「Finally, even a loser like me can actually win at something.」
「If only the reward was something more valuable...」
「Like being able to decide on the colours of the panties that girls around the world wear every day!」
Misogi Kumagawa placed 1st in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

------

Myouri Unzen (♂) - Abnormal: Vanilla Townie (Motivated to become a Vigilante)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Myouri Unzen, Monster Child(Vanilla Townie)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Myouri_Unzen-1.jpg)
Justice means nothing if you don't go overboard! While what you are doing may not necessarily be right or helping to make the world a better place, you are going to purge the world and deliver your brand of justice to anybody that dares to break the rules.
Myouri Unzen placed 19th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

You have the ability to post in thread and vote.

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

------

Najimi Ajimu (♀) - Not Equal: Dreaming God (Double lynch, Global roleblock, Abnormal roleblock, Minus roleblock, Instant night, Kingmaker, No private communications, Blank, Blank, Blank), Hated (Cannot be motivated)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Najimi Ajimu, Anshin'in(Hated Dreaming God)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Najimi_Ajimu1.jpg)
This popularity poll is a pretty interesting event. It's quite fun to watch everyone's emotions as they compete against each other as they attempt to become the most popular character. And yet, there are people that want to ruin this event by rigging the votes in their own favour. You might just have to make use of a few of your 12,858,051,967,633,865 skills to teach them a lesson or two.
Najimi Ajimu placed 7th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

------

Oudo Miyakonojou (♂) - Abnormal: Vote Blocker (Motivated to steal vote instead)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Oudo Miyakonojou, The King(Vote Manipulator)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Oudo_Miyakonojou.png)
You are the king, and everyone else your humble servant. And yet, how are you not 1st on the popularity poll? It must be the work of some simple minded fools rigging the votes. You will make sure that they are punished for daring to act against you.
Oudo Miyakonojou placed 30th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

------

Tokemichi Choujabaru (♂) - Abnormal: Untargetable (Cannot be motivated)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Tokemichi Choujabaru, The Judge(Untargetable)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Tomekichi_Choujabaru.jpg)
You absolutely cannot allow for anyone to rig the popularity contest. No matter who stands in your path, if you believe them to be acting outside the rules, you will destroy them.
Tokemichi Choujabaru placed 26th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Role PMs: Scum
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 06:42:30 AM
Mukae Emukae (♀) - Minus: 1-Shot Janitor/1-Shot Ninja/1-Shot Hitman/1-Shot Vigilante(Powers will be refreshed once she runs out of shots)(Motivated to use two powers together on the same target)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Mukae Emukae, Rainbow Rose Transfer Student(Jack of all Kills)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Mukae_Emukae.jpg)
You don't really care about this popularity contest, but Zenkichi seems to want to win, so you're going to do everything in your power to make that happen. Maybe senpai will notice you after you've killed everyone else.
Mukae Emukae placed 4th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated or nothing can stop this from happening. Best of luck.

------

Youka Naze (♀) - Abnormal/Minus: Minus Backup (Motivated to gain motivated version of every ability)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Youka Naze, Black-White(Minus Backup)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Youka_Naze.png)
You're not really all that concerned about your position on the popularity poll, you're already pretty high up on it anyway. However, you will not miss the opportunity to study all of these exceptional people.
Youka Naze placed 5th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated or nothing can stop this from happening. Best of luck.

------

Zenkichi Hitoyoshi (♂) - Abnormal: Rolecop (Motivated to also track target)
Welcome, <Playername>, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Zenkichi Hitoyoshi, Student Council President(Rolecop)
(http://i597.photobucket.com/albums/tt56/haeun0719/Medaka%20Box/300px-Zenkichi_Hitoyoshi.png)
You're the main character, so you have to be the most popular. That's just how the world is. You cannot allow for any other outcome, no matter what you have to do in order to make this happen.
Zenkichi Hideyoshi placed 3rd in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.

In addition to your ability to post in thread and vote, you have the following abilities:

You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated or nothing can stop this from happening. Best of luck.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - Night Actions
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 06:42:34 AM
N0 (Dreaming God Results)

Door To Door - Blank
"I wonder if this is nothing but another dream?"
Life Zero - Global Roleblock
"Plus Minus equals Zero."
Hundred Gauntlets - Instant Night
"It never happened to begin with."
Lip Service - Kingmaker
"And here's some fanservice for our viewers."
Alibi Block - Blank
"Oh my, where am I this time?"
Give Up-Down - Blank
"Maybe I'll be able to see better from up here."
Count Up - Double Lynch
"How many people are dying today? Two, of course."
Mirror Juvenile - No Private Communications
"I wonder why people don't want to talk to me."
Standing Ovation - Abnormal Roleblock
"You should know better than to try to peep on a girl."
Dead Lock - Minus Roleblock
"This is boring."

------

N1

1) Conqueror - No Action
2) Serela - No Action
3) Sky Paladin - No Action
4) Dr Rawr - No Action (Dead)
5) Zakeri - Ninja Rawr (Rawr dies)
6) NekoNekoRex - No Action
7) Shadoweh - Watch Self (Sees Sacchi Hikaru and Bardiche visiting)
8) Sacchi Hikaru - Motivate Shadoweh (Shadoweh becomes a regular watcher during N2)
9) ActionDan - No Action
11) SB - Jail Sky Paladin (No Result)
12) BT - No Action
13) Bardiche - Roleclop Shadoweh (Learns Shadoweh is a self-watcher)
14) Kingault - Encounter Serela (No Result)

------

N3

1) Conqueror - No Action
2) Serela - No Action
3) Sky Paladin - No Action
5) Zakeri - Hitman NNR (NNR dies)
6) NekoNekoRex - No Action (Dead)
7) Shadoweh - Watch Self (Sees Sacchi Hikaru visiting)
8) Sacchi Hikaru - Motivates Shadoweh (Shadoweh becomes a regular watcher during N4)
9) ActionDan - No Action
11) SB - Jail Bardiche (Roleblocks Bardiche)
12) BT - No Action
13) Bardiche - Roleclop Conq (Roleblocked)

-------

N4

1) Conqueror - No Action
2) Serela - No Action
3) Sky Paladin - No Action (Becomes a vigilante)
7) Shadoweh - Watch Bardiche (No result)
8) Sacchi Hikaru - Motivates Sky Paladin (Sky Paladin becomes a vigilante)
9) ActionDan - No Action
11) SB - Jail ActionDan (Dead)
12) BT - No Action
13) Bardiche - Kill SB (SB dies)

------

N5

1) Conqueror - No Action
3) Sky Paladin - Kill ActionDan (ActionDan dies)
7) Shadoweh - Watch Self (No result)
8) Sacchi Hikaru - Motivate ActionDan (ActionDan becomes able to act when he otherwise couldn't, dead)
9) ActionDan - No Action (Becomes able to act when he otherwise couldn't, dead)
12) BT - No Action
13) Bardiche - Kill Sacchi Hikaru (Sacchi Hikaru dies)

------

N6

1) Conqueror - No Action (Dead)
3) Sky Paladin - No Action
7) Shadoweh - Watch Self (No result)
13) Bardiche - Kill Conqueror (Conqueror dies)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 25, 2014, 06:43:53 AM
Quote
prism plains: all i want for my birthday is a town win ;_;
도미오: but will you get one
도미오: also is it the 25th in americaland?
prism plains: not in cali for 43 or so minutes
prism plains: watch as town wins but before 12AM
prism plains: oh god damn it
prism plains: hammer dropped as i said that lmao
thanks Sky_Paladin for RUINING MY BIRTHDAY
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: PX on March 25, 2014, 06:44:35 AM
JEY JEY
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 06:46:46 AM
Sorry guys :C

Sky topic ;___; (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/CsY4r74sUET)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Mr. Sacchi on March 25, 2014, 06:47:39 AM
##Motivate: Sky_Paladin.

I give you two choices, shoot yourself or me, either one works.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 25, 2014, 06:49:32 AM
also Bard until it came down to you and Shadoweh (and I knew Shadoweh was town) I was certain your posts were obviously town!Bard so kudos on the acting job.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Conqueror on March 25, 2014, 06:56:55 AM
gg
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Chaore on March 25, 2014, 07:01:07 AM
Sorry guys :C

Sky topic ;___; (http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/CsY4r74sUET)

You were nailing like everything I thought was wrong with Bard's play yesterday.

I BELIEVED IN YOU. ;W;
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 07:07:42 AM
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII LOVE YOU MORE
THEN I EEEEEEEEVER DID BEFORE
IIIIIIII DISCOVERED ALCOGHOLG

AND IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII WILL NEVER TRY
TO BE FRIENDS AGAIN WITH SKY
GET LYNCHED ILL LAUGH
VANILLA GUY
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Mr. Sacchi on March 25, 2014, 07:08:48 AM
Well, as I said in the Dead QT, well played Bard, you fooled me for pretty long.

Also, for the record, I dunno if I'll join other mafia games in the near future, it takes way more commitment than I initially thought, especially in the later parts of the game.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Schezo on March 25, 2014, 07:19:32 AM
well.  that was interesting.

gg
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 07:20:41 AM
Win some, lose some ;____;

Congratulations, Bard and scum team.  Sorry I got it wrong at the end, guys.  GG well played.  I screwed up.  Thanks for running the game, Dormio.  It was really stressful and I really enjoyed it.  I was so sure on Bard but...once again I doubted myself.  I think I need to just put my hands on my head and go lalala. 

Next time if you have a vanilla towny and a motivator role, and the motivator is not 100% guaranteed to upgrade the vanilla town, you don't say 'Every player is 100% guaranteed to have some kind of power role' and 'there are no vanilla townies in the game'.  I mean seriously.  Grarglebargle.  I was wondering on day 7 if they were both town and I was secretly scum. 

I'm out for the next game because Disneyland, I'm all burned out anyway so it's for the best >.>;
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 07:24:14 AM
"I'm prooooobably gonna hammer Shadoweh when I get up but I will actually reread the game first. We've got 60+ hours to go, no need to waste it all now. After all, snap decisions at 2 am when you are sleep deprived and staring at lines of shader code are the best kinds of snap decisions to make, and we all know how making snap decisions with 60 hours of time to go is the best time to make them. "
You intended to lynch me from the start. DORMIO WHEN ARE OYOU POSTING SKY'S REAL RED ROLE PM IM P SURE IS HE SCUM STILL AND BARD AND I WARE WAINNING TOGETHER
I figured out right away you needed a motivate. "Do VT's explode on contacT?" :V You need to liike, not logic yourself to death man like, i am not that kind of townie, you gotta feel whats going on and maybe think the guy hwho wanted to not lync hscum maybe its cause he was ;yike.. scum

Bard you made me so sahd :<
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 07:28:11 AM
Next time if you have a vanilla towny and a motivator role, and the motivator is not 100% guaranteed to upgrade the vanilla town, you don't say 'Every player is 100% guaranteed to have some kind of power role' and 'there are no vanilla townies in the game'.  I mean seriously.  Grarglebargle.
What the fuck?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Conqueror on March 25, 2014, 07:31:12 AM
to be fair i dont think dormio said there were no vt's he just said that "pure vt" was not a pr.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 07:45:38 AM
Never mind.  I guess it doesn't really matter.  The game is done, thank you for running it, I really enjoyed it. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 07:58:07 AM
also ty to both CF7 and Zakeri for being adorable and sending me apologies for giving me headhaackes <3
You're sucm, that's suposed to be your jobs you silly willsies
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 08:06:24 AM
Oh yeah teh thing RE: "No Pure VT's"
Instead of saying that you were in a 1 vs 1 with the mod because you were VT and he said there were not pure VT's.
You should have realized what he was saying was that you were guarenteed to have a power of some sort, because there are no true VT's.
I mean man, I didn't even have yoour role and just saying 'own brand of justice' told me you were a conditional vig dood
If your logic doesn't work with the facts you know, it means the facts you're using are wrong.
Dormio stressed that you weren't reallt VT so much that it felt like cheating.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 08:25:44 AM
Quote from: Ran Yakumo
Quote from: Shadoweh
WHAT THE HELL DOES IT TAKE TO GET KILLED IN THESE DAMN PARTS?!
Something that you're lacking, apparently.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 25, 2014, 08:29:53 AM
would rather be vt in role madness than ascetic

RIP BT I thought you were scum but not because of your posts or anything.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 09:27:13 AM
Forget it iw didnyt want to die! I wantnedi me iand my DEAR HEARTR Badfiche do win. Baaaaaaaaarsi9if9diche inm sorry form aiging you mad eenving if you wre scim im happy 4 uyou! you ddserive a wim after sadness in svum qt i swa it so im glad you fwewled Sky ppppppp
]
HAPPY SCUMG DAY
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 09:31:27 AM
Quote
[20:02:33] <Kazuko_Dormakami> did you like the ninja edit to the rules though
[20:02:37] <Kazuko_Dormakami> wrt no lynches
[20:02:39] <Kazuko_Dormakami> :DDDD
[20:04:01] <Shadoweh> If SB had governed
[20:04:09] <Shadoweh> Would you have changed it to Thrice
[20:04:15] <Kazuko_Dormakami> yes
[20:04:15] <Kazuko_Dormakami> :V
[20:04:25] <Kazuko_Dormakami> it could have potentially been four times
[20:04:26] <Shadoweh> I thought so. You are hilarious sometimes
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: O4rfish on March 25, 2014, 09:53:34 AM
If I made a setup with an inventor or gift giver whose gifts were tailored to each person's flavor, I wouldn't claim to have eliminated vanilla townsfolk simply because of that.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: BT on March 25, 2014, 10:48:31 AM
Having re-read your posts, thinking "My name is Bard and I am town" and "My name is Shadoweh and I am town", I feel like Bard has done the most to interrogate and try to solve the mystery.
This line made me teary-eyed. This never happened to me before.

Take this game as an indication for how NOT to make a decision in LYLO. Bard was "genuine" when it came to pushing his scum agenda, i.e. crying until people prefer to lynch people who actually "genuinely" caught scum and made plays that no scum player on this planet would make (mafiascum is on Mars and mssers are Martians).

Justice has not been served. I'm going to vent in the cave now.

RIP BT I thought you were scum but not because of your posts or anything.
I hate you all.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Vhaltz on March 25, 2014, 11:00:15 AM
If it helps at all I thought you were really obvtown BT

But then I probably would've lynched Conq and Shadoweh because I also thought Bard's frustration with Sky was too genuine to come from scum. I guess using emotion tells on Bard goes out the window after this :V
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 25, 2014, 11:02:03 AM
yea I thought Bard had to be town being bullied by the evil mafia member tbh (though I thought his play in general was solid, not just the emotion.)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Vhaltz on March 25, 2014, 11:13:16 AM
I thought his play in general was solid, not just the emotion

Same, but Bard can put out solid content as both alignments so this isn't really very alignment-telling (hence why I tried to rely on emotion tells instead).

EDIT: Also good luck with your IRL stuff Bard
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 25, 2014, 11:15:08 AM
I dunno, I'm pretty sure that frustration from Bard in regards to Sky Paladin's arguments was pretty legit.
Hell, I was pretty frustrated when I was reading those.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: BT on March 25, 2014, 11:15:36 AM
Well, fuck, I guess that's excusable when you're not playing, but there was no excuse for this outcome to happen considering the huge difference in interactions and consequences for play. I don't play mafia so that the best actor wins. I would have signed up for drama instead.

I'm being kind of harsh, but something went seriously wrong with this endgame. This really needs to get through. Town had Adorable levels of game control until they decided to lynch all of the townies voluntarily. Shadoweh and I were lynched without a case and the Serela wagon was a gift from the heavens because scum did nothing to make it happen.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 25, 2014, 11:20:11 AM
I remembered scum!Bard being more vague as scum - like, he doesn't go into the heart of why he suspects people are posting with scum intent, at least not as viciously as he would as town. It's been ages since I've seen him play scum though.

Cut: "I don't play mafia so that the best actor wins." uhhhh but being the best actor is literally what good scumplay is about, like I'm not gonna deny town dropped the ball on the last two days (even though I thought Bard was town I would've lynched him over Shadoweh just because of her Zak lynch) but don't be the guy who devalues scum's win just because of salt. If anything the best team wins and if town was the best team D6 - D7 wouldn't have happened.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 25, 2014, 11:25:48 AM
ftr if I had randomly been a hidden player who could enter the game at any time I would've thought it was Skypal before Shadoweh voted Bard and he didn't hammer. that's actually probably stupid since scum!Skypal would've just shot Conq or somebody and claimed a different effect from motivation but oh well, "Hindsight is 20/2" - Conqueror

that said, I wasn't paying very close attention, but Bard did play well enough to fool me on a cursory skim and also win the game so that has to count for something.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Kilgamayan on March 25, 2014, 11:26:08 AM
thanks Sky_Paladin for RUINING MY BIRTHDAY

> rooting against Bard as your birthday wish

:C
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: BT on March 25, 2014, 11:28:38 AM
Acting can only get you so far. People eventually look into someone's play and what motivates it.

What's making me say all this is that I feel like this isn't how games are meant to be won. I shouldn't end the game feeling that both sides played subpar. Something something scumhunting. I'm going to regret NOT saying all this every time I look at this game in the future.

EDIT: Thinking SkyPal was scum on D7 was absurd since it would mean scum had a motivated doublekiller, aside from variety kills. So basically two roles based around kills. That's ignoring SkyPal's impossible-to-come-from-scum analyses, but yeah.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 11:30:34 AM
Look.  I knew something was fishy with Bard.  His neighbor died and he wouldn't come clean about what he was going to do, he didn't crumb and there was lots of other things.  But there was no solid 'scumslip' that I could point at.  The best I could do was process of elimination and find the worst player on the assumption that town wants to kill scum.  But I had Shadoweh massively defending Bard the whole time instead of making a case against BT.  I got tired of dredging the same thing up over and over and over.  And then I couldn't find the quote I thought was there so I thought 'did I imagine the whole thing?'

Town loss isn't all my fault.  I wanted to lynch Bard the day before.  There wasn't a case on BT except for 'Rawrzilla'. 

The graveyard quicktopic was full of people raging at me for coming up with crazy shit but crazy shit is all I had because YOU sit in the situation where you go ummm well nobody is making a valid case. 

I wanted to lynch Bard but I gave up because nobody supported me.  Then finally on the last day when I had my chance I didn't trust myself any more.  Dormio if you want to go through and pull out the things I said that you think were retarded go ahead and let's chat. 

My play wasn't great but I tried really hard and I was right up until the very last moment.  In fact if I'd died night 6 nobody would have thought twice about it.  And maybe you'd be laughing at Conqueror now instead. 

I just, there's no scumslip and I don't have a magic guilty.  What am I supposed to do?  What would you have done?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 25, 2014, 11:31:33 AM
> rooting against Bard as your birthday wish

:C
I remember reading a guide to scum where the writer said town believes they "ought to win", I think that applies to the peanut gallery in terms of rooting for players as well. Unless there's a SK.

Acting can only get you so far. People eventually look into someone's play and what motivates it.

What's making me say all this is that I feel like this isn't how games are meant to be won. I shouldn't end the game feeling that both sides played subpar. Something something scumhunting. I'm going to regret NOT saying all this every time I look at this game in the future.
I don't think Bard's play was subpar really, just his buddies. in any case this happens in just about every game here (look at Utena, you can't seriously say my play was good and not just me making shit up on the spot and getting away with it because people just want me to win as scum for some reason) and while it's definitely far from ideal I'm surprised you're only complaining about it now.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Chaore on March 25, 2014, 11:34:11 AM
Cut: "I don't play mafia so that the best actor wins." uhhhh but being the best actor is literally what good scumplay is about, like I'm not gonna deny town dropped the ball on the last two days (even though I thought Bard was town I would've lynched him over Shadoweh just because of her Zak lynch) but don't be the guy who devalues scum's win just because of salt. If anything the best team wins and if town was the best team D6 - D7 wouldn't have happened.

tbh let bt have his salt here, this was a pretty fucking pitiful loss for town and something i'm surprised more people aren't upset about

I just, there's no scumslip and I don't have a magic guilty.  What am I supposed to do?  What would you have done?

i would've voted bard  :justasplanned:
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 11:35:16 AM
You weren't even playing :D
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: BT on March 25, 2014, 11:39:12 AM
Look.  I knew something was fishy with Bard.  His neighbor died and he wouldn't come clean about what he was going to do, he didn't crumb and there was lots of other things.  But there was no solid 'scumslip' that I could point at.  The best I could do was process of elimination and find the worst player on the assumption that town wants to kill scum.  But I had Shadoweh massively defending Bard the whole time instead of making a case against BT.  I got tired of dredging the same thing up over and over and over.  And then I couldn't find the quote I thought was there so I thought 'did I imagine the whole thing?'
There's more to it than that. Example: everything I said on D6.

My play wasn't great but I tried really hard and I was right up until the very last moment.  In fact if I'd died night 6 nobody would have thought twice about it.  And maybe you'd be laughing at Conqueror now instead. 

I just, there's no scumslip and I don't have a magic guilty.  What am I supposed to do?  What would you have done?
Good job making an effort. If people got mad, it's because you did something they wouldn't have done. Look at what they're saying and learn for next time. I'm sure any "feelings" of "anger" towards you will disappear in a flash even if they do exist, and if they don't that's silly.

As for what you could have done - plenty. You learn to know what to look for with time.

I don't think Bard's play was subpar really, just his buddies. in any case this happens in just about every game here (look at Utena, you can't seriously say my play was good and not just me making shit up on the spot and getting away with it because people just want me to win as scum for some reason) and while it's definitely far from ideal I'm surprised you're only complaining about it now.
Fair comparison. Is it surprising I didn't complain about that and I'm complaining about this? Perspective can do a lot. By all accounts town should learn from both games and scum should be happy for managing to somehow worm out of situations that shouldn't have let them win. :V The fact that this happens multiple times just underlines how important all this is? Iunno.

I'm really trying not to salt. It's hard. If anything here comes off as angry/bitchy, sorry.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 25, 2014, 11:39:50 AM
Skypal, best advice I can give you is instead of focusing on how you were wrong, look at the motivations of Bard / Shadoweh now that you know what their alignments actually were, and factor that into how you judge alignments in the future

cuz I know that in God Damn It Chaore, K4U's actions being scum instead of reVelske's didn't make sense to me until I got better at the game and took another look. LYLO calls are hard.

tbh let bt have his salt here, this was a pretty fucking pitiful loss for town and something i'm surprised more people aren't upset about

i would've voted bard  :justasplanned:
God Damn It Chaore

i don't mean to be unreasonable, town fucking up definitely needs to be discussed and learned from, i just think it's dumb to act like bard didn't play well enough to win or whatever, i mean yeah town should've had the game in the bag, but not because bard was super scummy or anything
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 11:43:20 AM
Quote
Look at what they're saying and learn for next time.

Quote
look at the motivations of Bard / Shadoweh now that you know what their alignments actually were

Yeah, I'll do that.  Thank you. 

I'm hurt too :/  I was trusting Bard and Shadoweh so much.  I wanted them to be town.  I had relied on Shadoweh lynching Zak as the pillar of 'she must be town'.  So when I had to question that I realised I didn't have a whole lot left other than that.  I was also suspicious because she never declared her night action before Bard.  The last thing I had was Bard's vote on day 1, but when I ISO'd Shadoweh and saw Zak and CF7 had also voted alongside her, I was T___T damn.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: WHMZakeri on March 25, 2014, 11:59:05 AM
I still wish I survived one more day to get the Governer one shot and abuse it. If only so I could make this loss make more sense.

also ty to both CF7 and Zakeri for being adorable and sending me apologies for giving me headhaackes <3
You're sucm, that's suposed to be your jobs you silly willsies

Doesn't mean I'm not sorry~
Glad to see you're recovering nicely though, and thanks for the new avatar.

My biggest downfall this game was pretty much the same downfall for all of my other games, I'm sorry for being useless but at least I made the game more fun maybe? I hope?

Also for anyone who isn't reading the ScumQT, Bard's frusteration seemed super legit because it was super legit. The key with using AtE as a tell is to try and figure out what the source of emotions is, and that's what Shadoweh was trying to do at the end when she pointed out Bard was getting mad at her for "Finding him scum for the wrong reasons."

Re:Salt - I think that's just the nature of how the game works. It's about a small group covering themselves up and a large group exposing that cover up. It's a war of wits, so of course the side that loses is going to look super dumb after the fact. The important thing is for everyone to come away from it with everyone saying stuff like "These are my problem areas, this is what I need to focus on to do better next game" That's the best way to deal with the anger from losing the game.  That is what's happening though, so I guess I'm happy with it.

Also, it's not really a case of both sides feeling like losers, Bard's play was super good this game, and much better than ours.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Chaore on March 25, 2014, 12:20:33 PM
God Damn It Chaore

i don't mean to be unreasonable, town fucking up definitely needs to be discussed and learned from, i just think it's dumb to act like bard didn't play well enough to win or whatever, i mean yeah town should've had the game in the bag, but not because bard was super scummy or anything

Not really?

Like, I get they're the losing side and salt whatever, whatever, but MOTK has a habit of talking up the winner and thinking that their play is immune to criticism and overall way better than it actually was.

Bard's play at the end was kind of suspect and I think it's fair for BT to call him out on it. The only reason I'm not is because I wasn't playing and picking on Bard's tendency to get overly frustrated is kind of mean.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 12:24:29 PM
Zakeriiiii <3

I'm hurt too :/  I was trusting Bard and Shadoweh so much.  I wanted them to be town.  I had relied on Shadoweh lynching Zak as the pillar of 'she must be town'.  So when I had to question that I realised I didn't have a whole lot left other than that.  I was also suspicious because she never declared her night action before Bard.  The last thing I had was Bard's vote on day 1, but when I ISO'd Shadoweh and saw Zak and CF7 had also voted alongside her, I was T___T damn.
Medaka Box Mafia: Lynching Scum Isn't Enough.

I never had a reason to declare my night action first. Being super helpful and openly claiming unnecessarily is a scumtrait in my opinion, actual Townies shouldn't care about their appearance. Both Conq and Bard commented in the QT's that you preferred logic-based cases to my regular emotion-based posts and I wasn't giving you what you liked.

Bard pulled a miracle and I let him win just as much as you did on different days. I'm sorry BT I can't say it enough T_T

Cut: Making decisions as a stress-free observer and making decisions after seven Mafia Days are completely different anyways. You can't say you wouldn't have doubted yourself and voted me for being TOO RISKY yourself.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 25, 2014, 12:26:16 PM
scum are going to be scummy on some level because they're scum but i'm not trying to play the winner up here, i legitimately do not think bard's play here was bad

e: to be clear good play =/= spotless play
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Kilgamayan on March 25, 2014, 12:35:33 PM
Good scum play is fooling the living townies into thinking you're not scum. Who cares what dead townies and people not playing the game think? Their opinions won't get you lynched.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: BT on March 25, 2014, 12:37:25 PM
Okay, the reason I said "subpar" is because of how out of their control this game was for scum, even at the very end. It's why most of my critique is directed as town right now. Because scum has town to thank for a lot of things. I guess I don't feel like *congratulating* Bard because *I* was never fooled but I know that's clear bias territory, by way of me being able to say that.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 25, 2014, 12:39:57 PM
the best way to play scum is to lynch the people who suspect you, ideally 10 minutes from deadline

bbm knows what i'm talking about :>
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 01:30:00 PM
So what's going on that has me on edge is my grandpa is dying, and my mother's citizenship may be revoked. It's got me on edge.


I wrote a wall with regards to how BT is being a sore loser, but honestly that's not worth it. I do think it's rather shitty. The last time I pulled out a win from behind it was as Town, catching Dormio on lying about his Post Restriction. That game, everyone said Town's play was shit and we hadn't deserved to win, and Serela commented that all my efforts were pointless and I was just "lucky".

I think MOTK has a huge problem with appreciating people's efforts and like to make people feel bad for the outcome of a Mafia game. That's something that needs to be fixed more than any amount of Town play.  Be good sports.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 25, 2014, 02:27:26 PM
Oh man that's horrible.  I hope that this against the odds win in some small way makes things a little rosier.  My brother died a few months back so I do know it's small comfort. 

You played me like a thing that gets played.   At the end of the day the only thing that matters is scum win or town win. 

I said it before but I'll say it again.  Congratulations :)  Now go take care of your family, with my warmest regards. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 25, 2014, 02:40:16 PM
But that WAS true Bard :C If Dormio hadn't messed up his PR town would have lost that game, IIRC, so it was just a PR flubup that let town win. I think the general consensus had been to not lynch Dormio? I don't really remember though, I can't even remember I have a PR long enough to not get modkilled/vig-killed. Last time was also Dormio's game. Isn't it sad? Mosu mosu (bad things happen between me and dormio with prs, apparently)

I hope I didn't really say everything you did was pointless though because obv. townies should try to win, all I remember is I read your cases on Dormio and didn't agree and I thought your play looked scummy, so I never would have voted Dormio until he confirmed himself lying

also Dormio has taught me never to believe him again when he tells me Shadoweh is scum, after I die

Anyway, I think it's dumb to get mad that Bard won and didn't deserve it or something. He didn't win through something stupid like ROLES AMAZING. SkyPal's decision isn't one I'd agree with (PoEing it to Bard in 3p lylo is what I always said I'd do!) but having the people who make smart decisions reliably be dead by lylo is a legit strat.

That being said SkyPal was pretty glorious this game and turned himself into obvtown from obvscum through sheer playing effort. I have to admit his attitudes against Bard for a lot of the last two days made me go "SKYPAL, WHY?!" a lot, though. A lot of Bard's frustration there was sympathized with by me.

e:I edited this post 8 times immediately after making it, adding significant amounts of new content each time, this is what normally happens with my posts and this is why it's amazing this is only the first time I screwed up in mafia and did it
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Bardiche on March 25, 2014, 02:52:15 PM
For what it's worth if I had been in control of the kill N1 I still think Rawr was a good kill because he was obvTown. Due to people regarding me as a "strong" player, I never can afford killing the actual strong players and have to hope to blend in with the crowd. Honestly, I don't think I'm a strong player. I sometimes have a good day and the Miracle happens. (See: Eden of the East Mafia and Zombie Mafia) The rest of the time I'm usually floundering around. I think GLaDOS has been my first mislynch death in a while, though.

As I said in the Scum QT my method is to actually hunt for people I find genuinely detracting to Town. This is why Serela was such a big aim for me as I felt his play was detrimental to the scumhunt effort. ActionDan was partially detrimental by being one-liners, partially because he was a wildcard and I wanted to eliminate chance. BT was what felt most possible, and I think him claiming there was nothing he should've been lynched for is false; at least I can relate, because that's how I actually feel like.

I had hoped to mislynch Sky Paladin, who was my LYLO Designated Mislynch on the grounds of leaps in his logic and disconnect between certain points of his arguments. It never came to that, because Shadoweh was on to me and voted me. I couldn't afford voting Sky Paladin and turning it into a Bard Is Definitely Scum Because Shadoweh Would Have Quicklynched situation situation. I know Shadoweh is hard to influence, so I'd rather gambled on Sky Paladin.

Throughout the game I never expected to win. I was staying in mostly because Dormio willed me to. I do admit it was shitty to react in the way I did to the (perceived) passive-aggressive tones and what I felt was just unfair dickery for being voted by Scum. No matter what circumstances go on, there's a line that should be drawn and I went over that. My feelings were genuine but in this case, I should not have shown them and just stepped away. I sincerely apologise.


Outside of that, Mafia is a game where Scum have to manipulate the Town. When you're not the subject of the manipulation, it's easy to point out all the flaws. I think a lasting problem of online Mafia play is the peanut gallery criticising the players. Another lasting problem is that people don't consider Mafia a party game. It's a deception game that must be won at all costs, and whoever wins, everyone loses. This kind of attitude is poison and why I went on a long hiatus from playing Mafia here. More than "fixing" any kind of Townie reasoning, which is just fine in my opinion, we should look towards evaluating the way we experience the game and deal with the aftermath.

As Sky Paladin pointed out in the thread (correctly): Calling the opposing team shit and degrading their play is just not something you do. For the record I also apologised to Zakeri and CF7 for my attitude towards them. Should not have happened.


I found Sacchi to be by far the strongest player. I literally could not find any angle from which I could say Sacchi was Scum, and that is why the NK happened.


Quote
If Dormio hadn't messed up his PR town would have lost that game, IIRC, so it was just a PR flubup that let town win.

I stand by that it was Bardiche going over all Dormio's posts with a fine comb that let Town win. Dormio goofed up there, but unless someone had pointed it out, Town would still have lost. You're outright denying that a victory was won through stubborn refusal to give up and continuous combing over posts.



Edit: Obviously I will now never play Mafia again and quit while ahead.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Conqueror on March 25, 2014, 03:30:35 PM
Sky made the wrong decision in LYLO sure but he was on Bardiche before that. If I had hammered Bard on D6 instead of waffling onto BT then we wouldn't have gotten to that point. I take no responsibility for Serela's modkill because I didn't get to lynch him like I wanted.

Kudos to Bardiche for effectively using emotion to pull people off of him. Hope things turn out allright on your end.

I see mafia as a party game where we dryly point out each other's past mistakes while daintily eating tea and biscuits. Mistakes were made, see how you can improve on them, slap your opponents heartily on the back, and move on to the next game.

gg
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: BT on March 25, 2014, 04:15:30 PM
Mafia's a mesh of fun and competitiveness. I'll apologize for forgetting about one of those sometimes. GG.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Shadoweh on March 25, 2014, 05:07:42 PM
I stand by that it was Bardiche going over all Dormio's posts with a fine comb that let Town win. Dormio goofed up there, but unless someone had pointed it out, Town would still have lost. You're outright denying that a victory was won through stubborn refusal to give up and continuous combing over posts.
Stubborn refusal to give up sums up alot of victories. It was a Bardiche win~
I don't think I deserved to lose, but in a logic fight I'll probably lose every time. ;-; I'm sorry you were having such a bad time during all this IRL-wise. I would say I made clear how I feel but in retrospect I'm not sure I can actually read my posts..
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: WHMZakeri on March 25, 2014, 05:41:35 PM
The key difference between CF7, Me, and Bardiche was when we gave up. CF7 gave up immediately, I gave up halfway through, and Bard Never gave up.

It's all a matter of willpower.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: SB on March 25, 2014, 06:17:56 PM
I played horribly this game. Welp.

Bard did really well though, so props to him. Setup was cool too I guess.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Vhaltz on March 25, 2014, 06:22:18 PM
Also the role that Conq was given in this game was terrible, pretty much equivalent to any percentage-based role only they don't even know what they do.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Kitten4u on March 25, 2014, 07:25:07 PM
I'll just repeat what I said on IRC last night.  I haven't been lurking in Mafia for awhile because :effort:, but sometimes I lurk in the QTs if I have access to them.  Reading through what was going on there made me skim the game a bit, and once it was down to 5 players I think I was just reading the thread completely.  The entire endgame was played really well by both sides, and everyone on both sides.

Sky, I know you feel bad because of what happened, and I can't really blame you for it because losing sucks, but I think you played better than you think you did.  If nothing else, you managed to look really town to everyone, which is an important skill on its own.  I think your problem is similar to mine in my early games.  You are very easily caught up in paranoia and small things that don't mean anything.  The chances of you finding a genuine scumslip are so astronomically small that it's not even worth looking for them in my opinion.  You will probably not find contradictions (in fact, I find them in townies just as much as scum), you will probably not have some kind of slam dunk case ever.  It's just a matter of weeding through their words to pick out their motivations.  Townies want to lynch all the scum, and the scum want to lynch anyone but the scum (or at the very least, keep at least one scum alive).  Motivations are the best tool you can use for that reason; that single truth is the only unchanging truth in Mafia.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Kilgamayan on March 25, 2014, 08:20:55 PM
You will probably not find contradictions (in fact, I find them in townies just as much as scum)

this is true because you never find them in townies or in scum because you never play :c
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Kitten4u on March 25, 2014, 08:29:24 PM
this is true because you never find them in townies or in scum because you never play :c
Hey, I played a lot in the past.  I'm just retired or something
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Mr. Sacchi on March 25, 2014, 08:47:41 PM
I found Sacchi to be by far the strongest player. I literally could not find any angle from which I could say Sacchi was Scum, and that is why the NK happened.

Oh, you flatter me Bard. Still, thanks, I half-expected scum to leave me alive for being Useless!Town, I guess the game being partially centered around my role helped in the decision though. And for whatever it's worth, good luck on your IRL issues Bard.

I feel like I shouldn't say much about this considering it was my first game, but I can't say that the scum team as a whole - only Bard - deserved the victory, I can't say that Town deserved the loss either but the fumbles D5~LYLO were like  :derp: though I doubt I would've done much better than that. I guess it's partially my fault for waking up late on D5 and not being able to contribute before Serela Self-Destructed.

Despite raging a lot on the Dead QT about Sky, honestly he put in infinitely more effort than I would've, and effort is something I that can't go unnoticed, even if the end result was a loss, I have to congratulate all parties involved, I dunno how much this means coming from a newbie, but for what it's worth, the closest to catching scum I was was my scumread on Zak and being "iffy" on Bard, everyone else looked like town.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 26, 2014, 12:05:43 AM
Also the role that Conq was given in this game was terrible, pretty much equivalent to any percentage-based role only they don't even know what they do.
Dreaming God is a rare exception in that it's a RNG role that isn't implicitly horrible. Day events can add a little interesting stuff here and there, and whilst rng'ing them can lead to questionable results, it's not so bad; honestly, Conq was pretty much VT, but he got to have a little bit of Informed Townie power and to participate in role shenanigans a little, which I think is a really nice way to add roles into a game without worrying about tipping power balances. Although I might feel different if the order of events had ended up different in a more one-side-slanted manner , which would have been possible (albiet unlikely?)

That's from a viewpoint assuming day events would have existed even if no player had been given them, e.g. Shadoweh's game which had daily events through no one's specific doing.

I guess there's also the fact that he was hated, though :V I'm not sure I've ever seen Hated status actually turn into an issue, though, even though it's been used regularly. Dormio's last game where Shadoweh was like triple-hated at one point could have been really lol though
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 26, 2014, 12:17:39 AM
nah dreaming god is shit

i don't see why you can't find a way to give town motivation to use day mechanic abilities while also knowing what they are
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 26, 2014, 12:22:31 AM
That'd be fair but only depending on what the day powers actually are. If you know what they are then the mod is limited in what he can give to you, imo

Plus actually gaming the order of the powers could be a thing if they aren't mostly fairly harmless (like kingmaker), etc, Double Lynch Day and Nightskip are pretty powerful tools.

I don't think it's that bad of a role to not know what they are, knowing what they are is also fine it just affects how you balance it (and probably means the day effects will overall be more tame?)
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: WHMZakeri on March 26, 2014, 12:25:35 AM
I dunno, skipping a full day phase after skipping a full night phase is pretty cool.

Sacchi, that might not sound like much catching one scum and being willing to slam another, but it's actually a lot for one townie. This is a team game after all, even if you can't trust your teammates.

Also, I think it's super cool that we have like 3+ Retired mafiosi that just sit around watching games and coaching the lesser experienced players, like, it's like we have some sort of rich history or something.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Bardiche on March 26, 2014, 12:53:58 AM
>Mostly harmless
>Kingmaker
Oh Serela.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Pesco on March 26, 2014, 01:14:52 AM
Quote
[23:45:57] <oarfish> although Dormio seems to actively put troll roles into his games

Lrn2DtB. Kyuubey was a troll role and I have no regrets of it.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 26, 2014, 01:17:27 AM
I could argue PoS' paranoid gun owner was a troll role ;_;

Kyuubey was glorious, though.

Anyway that irc discussion was mostly about "so why don't you want people to game your setup?" and I wish I was there because I feel the point was never really gotten through to o4rfish ;_; MotK has issues with Going Off The Deep End and killing themselves on it, basically. Several people have learned, though :D
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Vhaltz on March 26, 2014, 01:26:47 AM
If anybody wanted to have day or night phase changes happen at random in their setup they could literally just roll a die to have them happen every time a day phase starts instead of giving it to somebody as a useless PR. "Getting to participate in role shenanigans" is not really a good thing unless you can actually do things the way you want to do them, just like having a vote but having it cast at random instead of where you want it to go.

And in the case that you're going to give out a power like that, then at least make sure that negative modifiers are given to the roles that can actually choose the things they do so that nobody gets a PM that's worse than "you're a VT".
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Conqueror on March 26, 2014, 01:29:12 AM
I remember when  Shadoweh gave Bard the only worse-than-VT-role in an otherwise functional vanilla game, was glorious.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 26, 2014, 01:32:17 AM
The hated part was questionable, yes. However, it might be balanced if you consider claiming dreaming god will probably make some people clear you as town.

Quote
"Getting to participate in role shenanigans" is not really a good thing unless you can actually do things the way you want to do them, just like having a vote but having it cast at random instead of where you want it to
This is a really bad example. "Not knowing what the day effects are is like not being able to control your vote" is taking things waaaaay out of proportion :V Basically, it's okay because It's Better Than VT in terms of "horray rolez" but it doesn't really have a big impact on power balance in comparison to selecting day events by real rng instead.

Role madness games with roles like this are better than role madness games where everyone's powers are actually kinda pretty strong. Balancing power with more power is usually a terrible idea, but it's fun to be able to give everyone -some- kind of alright role. Plus the claim power is -something-, even if it's mostly a meta kind of power.

cut by oh god yeah that was pretty hilari-bad. She immediately changed it to remove the voteless part. >_>;
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 26, 2014, 01:32:44 AM
If you want to say shit about my setup, say it to me while I'm around and I'll explain why I made the choices I did instead of being a whiny little bitch behind my back and making everyone have a bad time.
That is all.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Vhaltz on March 26, 2014, 01:43:07 AM
All I'm saying is that it helps to review that modifiers for setup balance don't end up screwing one particular guy in the game. It might be funny later on but nobody likes getting the short end of the stick while the game is running and everybody else gets cool stuff.

I don't see the reason to take it so personally when I'm leaving it out here instead of trash talking on IRC or whatever.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 26, 2014, 01:48:10 AM
He wasn't talking about you.

You could argue SkyPal was getting the short end of the stick for awhile, by the way :V

Anyway, I have a feeling I'm not the only one who basically handwaved Conq as town for being the Dreaming God, at least until EVERYONE WAS TOWN OH GOD WHY
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 26, 2014, 01:58:36 AM
I decided that by signing up to Dormio's game I was subjecting myself to his version of balance.  There was also oversight in the form of K4U checking the roles. 

I personally disagree with his interpretation on the vanilla/not vanilla scenario but I don't think the game was unbalanced or overpowered in any way because of it.  In the end it is just that - a personal disagreement - and nothing more.  I was happy to play in Dormio's game and ultimately snatch defeat out from the jaws of victory.  Damn it. 

Man I am so bad at using town power roles.  I keep vigging obv town and detective checking people that die at the same time.  Next time watch me roll a doctor and save a scum. 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Conqueror on March 26, 2014, 02:00:39 AM
Dormio is actually talking to oarfish. Way to be ambiguous and make everyone think you're yelling at them Dormio.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 26, 2014, 02:01:21 AM
Next time watch me roll a doctor and save a scum. 
Poor Dormio. Maybe one day he'll be a kevorkian doc and his immense accuracy at targetting scum with it will come in handy.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 26, 2014, 02:02:12 AM
I don't understand doctors. You are meant to target the scum with them right?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Shadoweh on March 26, 2014, 02:03:05 AM
The thing about tying the Day effects to a player is it leaves an easy way to shut them off.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 26, 2014, 02:03:53 AM
And, yeah, Vhaltz that wasn't directed at you.
Although I am the type of guy that absolutely hates whenever anybody says shit about me behind my back.
I'm quite open with my opinions and have no qualms with telling others about them and get very annoyed when the same isn't done for me.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 26, 2014, 02:39:51 AM
dormio sux
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 26, 2014, 03:05:19 AM
u sux (me) :blush:
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: ActionDan on March 26, 2014, 04:52:46 AM
u sux (me) :blush:

go on
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 26, 2014, 05:09:37 AM
I'd Definitely Dormio. all homo
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: O4rfish on March 26, 2014, 05:57:21 AM
"I just don't understand where he's coming from. Why would you want to have a setup where the players are not allowed to figure it out?"
Quote from: Dormio
I think that this is the major point of confusion.
There are several reasons for why I would want to have a setup where the players are not allowed to figure it out.
The first is that I do not consider it to be fun.
Mafia is a game about deceit for scum and trying to uncover the wolf in sheep's clothing for town.
The fun in mafia, in my opinion, is derived from reading people and comparing it with what you know of how they behave in various situations in order to assess whether or not they are lying from your perspective.
You may argue that what you are saying about having a setup that can be figured out is the same thing but I disagree.
Mafia is a game of emotion, it is not one that should be able to be "solved".
Are you saying that mafia would be fun for somebody that played their best, fooled all the townies into thinking that they were town, and then lost anyway due to nothing other than the process of elimination since every other player's role was proven to be real by the moderator?
That's just bullshit and anybody in that position would agree, I'm sure.
Alternatively, if you're aligned with the town, where is the fun in catching scum through nothing but role gaming and the process of elimination?
You get none of the satisfaction of knowing that you managed to catch someone out in their behaviors and actions and then that just leaves the question of what the point of playing mafia in the first place is.
If you think that mafia is a game that can be solved from an objective point of view, I think that games such as solitaire are much better suited for that.
Providing your players with a game and deciding which fun is correct fun ... is just going to lead to frustration.

"I made a complex game with cool roles but I want you to find the scum without talking about the cool roles I made"
Quote from: Dormio
To an extent, yes.
It is my opinion that roles exist to add variety and spice to the game of mafia.
It's rather necessary when you have such a small playerbase like we do and end up playing with the same people over and over again.
Without some sort of variation, the games get very dull and repetitive.
However, as mentioned above, I believe that hunting and lynching scum should be town's main tool in removing the scum from their midst whilst lying and trying to maintain their cover should be the scum's main tool in staying alive.
I feel that roles should not be a replacement to either of these.
Because once those two key elements stop being the focus of the game, then you are no longer playing mafia.

These seem like contradictory motivations, both taken to extremes. I believe you can have a game that limits or obviates rolespec entirely without being boring. If you're trying to avoid scum being found through PoE of mod-confirmed rolespec, seems like there are quite a few different ways to accomplish that. Giving everyone a power role isn't the obvious solution, and neither is creating roles which are designed to subvert expectations or are too original to speculate about.


I assumed that things like transforming roles and hidden information weren't used here, but that was obviously a faulty assumption.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 26, 2014, 07:29:20 AM
Providing your players with a game and deciding which fun is correct fun ... is just going to lead to frustration.
I don't know about you but I'm under the impression that you join mafia to hunt scum, not solve puzzles.

These seem like contradictory motivations, both taken to extremes. I believe you can have a game that limits or obviates rolespec entirely without being boring. If you're trying to avoid scum being found through PoE of mod-confirmed rolespec, seems like there are quite a few different ways to accomplish that. Giving everyone a power role isn't the obvious solution, and neither is creating roles which are designed to subvert expectations or are too original to speculate about.
I have no idea what you're talking about here so my apologies for whatever I've misinterpreted.
Basically what I'm saying there is that it's fun to have a role but no matter what role you have or how many roles exist within the game the roles should never take precedence over actual play.

As for the hidden information bullcrap accusation, what am I meant to say here?
I am not going to confirm the existence of a motivator to every single player because that would be retarded.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Bardiche on March 26, 2014, 12:12:21 PM
So what solutions are there otherwise, O4rfish?ㅎ
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 26, 2014, 01:53:50 PM
Quote
I assumed that things like transforming roles and hidden information weren't used here, but that was obviously a faulty assumption.
This is the first time I've seen a motivator (not that a motivator is bastard in the slightest anyway) and maybe the second time I've seen hidden information that I can remember if SkyPal's VT pm counts as one, which it really shouldn't since it should have been painfully obvious upon receiving it that he could not truly be VT. (I've been playing here roughly 4 years I think?)

Anyway, I think you're really overreacting. You say it's not up to Dormio to decide which one is "fun", but I think most people would agree that what he was trying to avoid is indeed "not fun". People getting carried away with roles is VERY not fun, it's usually pretty irritating, and they tend to get carried away enough that it's just stupid and not even going to have a better chance at catching scum than throwing darts at a board. And even when they don't get that far carried away, it tends to remove the actual mafiaplaying aspect of the game to a significant degree, and then even the people still trying to play normally have less to work with because a decent amount of the players are doing nothing but rolegaming over Actually Playing Mafia.

Roles are fun, having them is fun, many of them ARE there to help you catch scum, but it's important for the mod to try to stop them from having a high chance of being able to take over the game. (Also everything I say is only from MotK situations and are not meant to apply to anywhere else since I've never -played- anywhere else) The players WILL be quick to jump at a chance to let roles take over the game, and they'll probably handle it stupidly and guess everything wrong and give the other faction the win. (It's not always town being dumb and losing to scum. Recently we had a ITP win from purely this when he was the mega-obv-nottown like four days before the game ended.)

Quote
I believe you can have a game that limits or obviates rolespec entirely without being boring.
Limiting rolespec without being boring is basically the entire point of what happened here, and
Quote
Giving everyone a power role isn't the obvious solution, and neither is creating roles which are designed to subvert expectations or are too original to speculate about.
Power roles to everyone isn't a solution, it was just that the point of the setup is also that everyone gets some form of PR; it's kind of nice to /in knowing you're not going to be VT and have a nice chance of landing something that's even pretty cool (hopefully). Creating roles designed to subvert expectations or being too weird to speculate about isn't bad either? I'm not sure whether you're just saying one should stick to the standard list of roles or not, but that'd be pointless and limiting, and most of those are pretty strong (which would be bad)

IMO the best kind of role madness game (unless you specifically are looking for literal Madness, which can be fun every now and then, but MotK gets enough of it as it is) is one where most of the roles are fairly tame (aka have little real power effect on the balance), and there's at least a couple pretty abnormal roles. My previous setup I Wanna Be The Sereliest fit that and so does Dormio's here (to an even larger extent), and IMO Dormio's setup was perfectly fine. Then there's stuff like Shadoweh's mafia where it turned out everyone was actually functional vanilla >:V (It was all Role backups, and Role enablers, and other silly things. It was actually still really interesting since we didn't realize until d3 or d4, and claims made were still powerful things. Plus she also put in an opt-in feature to get a Post Restriction in exchange for nighttalking and had regular day events, a special lurkerkill system, and a post word limit to deal with the current wallposting issues)



aaaaalso by the way
Quote
"I made a complex game with cool roles but I want you to find the scum without talking about the cool roles I made"
Almost all of the roles in this game were very weak, at least in terms of finding scum with, they basically HAD to be Motivated to not suck and half of them still didn't do anything then. So yes, he made a complex game with cool roles, and you still won't be able to find the scum with them even whilst talking about them beyond what you'd get in a "normal", only-a-few-PRs game with mostly VTs, without extra effort on his part. This is Good Role Madness Setup Design imo, even if this setup is even weaker than I'd normally suggest. I mean the VT pm and Zakeri abnormal backup with rawr thing might not be something I'd put in a book of Good Design but they really aren't a big deal either

tl;dr, Role Madness is fun but you probably shouldn't give the players a whole lot more power than they'd have in a setup with two thirds of the town being VT and the others being strong PRs. Otherwise you get Actual Madness, which is only fun to have every now and then (and we get it fairly often already) Especially, especially considering that it usually devolves into people yelling at eachother about the setup and trying to outguess the mod about everything, getting things wrong, and then leading town to smother itself to death through incorrect assumptions about roles.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 26, 2014, 02:17:06 PM
Quote
maybe the second time I've seen hidden information that I can remember if SkyPal's VT pm counts as one, which it really shouldn't since it should have been painfully obvious upon receiving it that he could not truly be VT.

I kind of blurred over the rest of your post but I'm going to dispute the 'it should be obvious' thing and share the pm with you. 

Quote
Welcome, Sky Paladin, to Medaka Box Mafia!
You are Myouri Unzen, Monster Child(Vanilla Townie)
Justice means nothing if you don't go overboard! While what you are doing may not necessarily be right or helping to make the world a better place, you are going to purge the world and deliver your brand of justice to anybody that dares to break the rules.
Myouri Unzen placed 19th in the latest Medaka Box popularity poll.
You have the ability to post in thread and vote.
You win when all threats to your faction have been eliminated. Best of luck.

Obvious how...?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 26, 2014, 02:20:01 PM
This is a role madness game, which implies everyone should have a role. Second, I'm fairly sure Dormio had stated before the game started that everyone will have a role, which modconfirmed it.

edit:Okay, Dormio didn't explicitly state that, nevermind. Role Madness still heavily implies it but I suppose it's not an end-all-be-all enough to assume everyone should immediately realize something's wrong with a VT pm. But yeah, in the future, role madness is supposed to explicitly mean everyone has a role, unless the mod has stated otherwise that it's just "very low amounts of vt".

Although I think it'd be mean to include any VTs in a role madness setup, unless it's the kind where you confirm there's one or two so they're like Innocent Child in actuality.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: ActionDan on March 26, 2014, 02:41:51 PM
I should design another setup
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Sky_Paladin on March 26, 2014, 03:17:23 PM
Serela, what are you actually saying? 
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 26, 2014, 03:23:44 PM
I do not know how to make it any clearer than that. :C
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: O4rfish on March 26, 2014, 03:31:24 PM
So what solutions are there otherwise, O4rfish?ㅎ

Just off the top of my head, you could run a 13-2 game where the scum have X-shot anonymous extra vote.
My upcoming game will be 10-5 with no power roles, 5 days and 4 nights, delayed flips and the graveyard votes for a living player's faction to win.
Popcorn Mafia, or anything where the rules are different. Bard, you were suggesting some Nostradamus Mafia, right?
Heck, if you want everyone to have a role but totally eliminate rolespec, give everyone exactly the same role.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Kilgamayan on March 26, 2014, 03:45:22 PM
the graveyard votes for a living player's faction to win

uh
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: ActionDan on March 26, 2014, 03:56:50 PM
uh

I'm gonna make this work in my next setup
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Schezo on March 26, 2014, 04:11:43 PM
I'm gonna make this work in my next setup
Well then God bless you my man
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Shadoweh on March 26, 2014, 05:43:23 PM
I should design another setup
I'm not inning to be VT again >:C

I believe even Sky Paladin said his role pm looked like a vigilante pm missing the vig shot. :> It just needed a boost!
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Conqueror on March 26, 2014, 06:52:28 PM
Obviously you're all going about this the wrong way.
The way to eliminate rolespec is to mindscrew the players so much that they don't trust any role interactions or role info. Don't want follow the cop? Make half the town secret millers, and then make the cop insane anyway. Don't want Game Winning Night Action Plans? Have everyone's role passively redirect themselves to the target immediately below on the playerlist. If you don't like players making erronous connections via flips, janitor all the lynches and nightkills so you have to base your reads solely on individual play.

The last step is to get banned from hosting mafia forever.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 26, 2014, 08:16:29 PM
I don't know but I get the feeling that some people just don't understand what the actual game of mafia was about in the first place with all the weird setups that people have been running.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Bardiche on March 26, 2014, 08:38:23 PM
Just off the top of my head, you could run a 13-2 game where the scum have X-shot anonymous extra vote.
My upcoming game will be 10-5 with no power roles, 5 days and 4 nights, delayed flips and the graveyard votes for a living player's faction to win.
Popcorn Mafia, or anything where the rules are different. Bard, you were suggesting some Nostradamus Mafia, right?
Heck, if you want everyone to have a role but totally eliminate rolespec, give everyone exactly the same role.

Quote
"I believe you can have a game that limits or obviates rolespec entirely without being boring. If you're trying to avoid scum being found through PoE of mod-confirmed rolespec, seems like there are quite a few different ways to accomplish that."

But x-shot anonymous extra votes don't sound fun in the slightest. That just gives the Scum more power at no gain to the Town.
Delayed flips don't exactly stop rolespec, we rolespec based on living players. Making the Graveyard important eliminates a huge part of Mafia, which is what BT was also butthurt about: The people who aren't fooled by the Mafia get killed or get pushed into mislynch positions. Telling the Mafia that they can't do anything to stop good players from ratting them out is poor game design and doesn't sound fun from a Scum PoV.
I have no idea what Nostradamus Mafia is.

Either way, in these examples you're just putting forth things you think are fun. But if your criticism of Dormio is that he decided what was fun and not boring, then these ideas still work off of the same idea: The mod decides what is fun/interesting and the players fit themselves to that. 13-2 mountainous with Scum having 3+ votes isn't any more fun than Dormio's game just now.

The only time I've ever received a role PM that was literally worse in all ways than being vanilla was this game (http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,12366.0.html). It's also the first and only game where I replaced out during confirmation phase.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Pesco on March 26, 2014, 09:22:24 PM
Did it really have to be Shadoweh's game? :V
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em on March 27, 2014, 12:17:54 AM
Obviously you're all going about this the wrong way.
The way to eliminate rolespec is to mindscrew the players so much that they don't trust any role interactions or role info. Don't want follow the cop? Make half the town secret millers, and then make the cop insane anyway. Don't want Game Winning Night Action Plans? Have everyone's role passively redirect themselves to the target immediately below on the playerlist. If you don't like players making erronous connections via flips, janitor all the lynches and nightkills so you have to base your reads solely on individual play.

The last step is to get banned from hosting mafia forever.
I see you've been talking to Manix on sf
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 27, 2014, 12:20:51 AM
I was only banned from hosting a specific flavor of setup.

I was lucky.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: O4rfish on March 27, 2014, 03:12:25 AM
Either way, in these examples you're just putting forth things you think are fun. But if your criticism of Dormio is that he decided what was fun and not boring, then these ideas still work off of the same idea: The mod decides what is fun/interesting and the players fit themselves to that. 13-2 mountainous with Scum having 3+ votes isn't any more fun than Dormio's game just now.

I was criticizing Dormio for deciding that certain things his players were going to do were not fun, and his implementation in trying to prevent those. If you want to prevent someone from doing something, it's less effective to place obstacles in their way than to remove the option entirely.

Bard, if you think the Medaka Box setup is a better solution to the two constraints of not boring and preventing rolespec than any of these options, I don't know what to tell you other than I disagree.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Serela on March 27, 2014, 03:19:55 AM
O4rfish, your suggestions are basically "don't let people have any roles then", which defeats the purpose of still having nice roles :V You know, it's possible to live in a world where you have cool roles and don't fall into overspeculation land. You just have to be careful about it.

Your criticism is that "The mod thinks certain things wouldn't be fun, and tried to make a setup designed to avoid those not-fun things." This is EXACTLY what a mod's job should always be, albeit in role madness games it's more prevalent because you have to actively make sure to do it.

I guess you think that dormio's implementation was bad but I disagree, or you think that Dormio's idea of what's "Not Fun" is bad, where I also disagree because motk has a long history of that Not Fun stuff ruining many games.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 27, 2014, 04:43:00 AM
You should just relax and accept that I'm awesome, because I am.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: O4rfish on March 27, 2014, 11:05:04 AM
Your criticism is that "The mod thinks certain things wouldn't be fun, and tried to make a setup designed to avoid those not-fun things." This is EXACTLY what a mod's job should always be, albeit in role madness games it's more prevalent because you have to actively make sure to do it.

Serela, I agree that deciding certain things are not desired and then trying to prevent those things is useful. What I am criticizing is the fact that Dormio did not prevent those things from occuring at all, but instead used mechanics that I wasn't expecting and find distasteful. The latter is admittedly subjective, and the former is fact.

Several people here are saying that rolespec is a problem, but not offering solutions other than "be careful" or "run a bastard game"
I think you may have different priorities though. I see the constraint as "be new and interesting rather than boring" not "make cool roles" and not "provide something better than VT"
Bard, Serela, do you consider playing a VT to be boring? If so, would you consider the core mechanic of Mafia to be boring?
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Dormio Ergo Sum on March 27, 2014, 12:32:04 PM
Seriously?
Like, I don't know what the fuck you're on about.
Like are you reading your own words here?
Several people here are saying that rolespec is a problem, but not offering solutions other than "be careful" or "run a bastard game"
Because you are clearly not reading everybody else's.
Nobody has offered "run a bastard game" as a suggestion, why the fuck are you bringing that up?
And what the fuck is wrong with being careful with a setup?
You say it like it's the most incriminating thing in a world.
Making a balanced setup requires care and effort?
Who the fuck knew?
Like. I don't know man. What the fuck are you trying to say here? Because I don't fucking get it.

To be frank, I think you're just mad.
And if you are, take it out on me, not my setup.
Because my setup is fucking awesome and I will fight you if you say otherwise.
Title: Re: Medaka Box Mafia - GAME OVER
Post by: Pesco on March 27, 2014, 12:46:07 PM
Your setup sucks because it lacks firetrucks. Now take it outside.