DEFCON Mafia Thread 2 (Game Over)

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

You talk with me enough to know that I use the word disgusting pretty liberally don't you?

[I have no name]

I won a mafia game in 33 hours once

I won a game in 15 minutes once.

I switched into a game here that my faction won within an hour or so

Silly Edible that's NG+  :V

[Pesco]

I switched into a game here that my faction won within an hour or so

That game wasn't mafia though

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Pretty sure we've had IRC mafia games lasting less than 30 seconds.

[Edible]

That game wasn't mafia though

Details.

(I can't even remember what it was tbh)

[ActionDan]

just saying, if you intentionally lurk and post minimal content as scum and most people find it reasonable you could be town then that says a lot about you as a mafia player

this goes for more people than just dan

I do remember the second time you played with me and thought I was playing like some guy from GL (or was it DL)

[PX]

Well speedrunning is less for having the best finish time ever and more for beating your own time.  Also people do it because they like the game.

WR or go home

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I do remember the second time you played with me and thought I was playing like some guy from GL (or was it DL)

That wasn't due to play level so much as an anon guess based on context + memories of MSR

though you were actually playing well that game so yeah what the fuck happened basically

[Shadoweh]

I've lost an Assassin in the Court game in less then 1 minute, do I win?!?!

People don't actually have a problem with lurkers, you know, just ones that don't seem to be posting anything when they do post, like if your only contribution in two days is:

how can anyone vote PX after that post.

And then you don't post again until the next day, it doesn't make people think you're scum, it makes them think you don't care about the game. Meanwhile you have Dormoe who was posting walls everywhere. In what was a Kingmaker situation, it's not surprising that Zak picked the person that looked like he was actually playing the game to win.

The flip-out about Dormio not playing to give everyone a draw is really uncalled for. :/ If you had read his other Serial Killer game you would have known he would play to win for himself, alone. In the opinion of alot of people a win on your own counts for more then a win for everyone. Who wants to win as a Serial Killer with three other people anyways?

[WHMZakeri]

The simple fact is Dormio won because he wanted it the most.

I gave up and town lost
Dan went halvsies and scum lost
Dormio didn't settle for anything, and he won.

I think we could all learn from his example.

[ActionDan]

I flipped out on Dormio for insulting me after he had just won the game.

I don't stand for that.

His opinion that draws are 'pussy shit' is another matter.  That's only childish.

[ActionDan]

The simple fact is Dormio won because he wanted it the most.

I gave up and town lost
Dan went halvsies and scum lost
Dormio didn't settle for anything, and he won.

I think we could all learn from his example.

I estimated my chances of solo victory at less than 50%.  After I asked both Pesco and Conq whether what I was about to do was playing towards my wincon, Conq answered in the affirmative and Pesco didn't mind. 

I simply played towards achieving a higher expected payoff.  I did so for myself and my scumteam. 

There is nothing to learn here other than both you and Dormio are irrational and untrustworthy players.

[ActionDan]

maybe I should spell it out since It's totally lost on many of you guys.

Had I not revealed and asked for the draw, I'd be faced at best with

Dormio, Massaca, Zak, and me.  Dormio, gauranteed to lose would nuke one.  While town then immediately no-lynches and hopes Dormio nightkills scum.  That's a 1/3 chance to win for me.

[Hero999]

maybe I should spell it out since It's totally lost on many of you guys.

Had I not revealed and asked for the draw, I'd be faced at best with

Dormio, Massaca, Zak, and me.  Dormio, gauranteed to lose would nuke one.  While town then immediately no-lynches and hopes Dormio nightkills scum.  That's a 1/3 chance to win for me.

And that is still a chance for "win".
Looking at it from a winning angle you still had a chance.
You gave it up for a compromise.
Dormio didn't and pushed for his win. He did everything even filling two pages of words by himself.
As well as luck, can't deny the luck of coinflip.
But seriously?
Zak basically chose the guy with more conviction to win.
You gave it up.
That is basically what I'm seeing here. So your point about 1/3 chance of winning? You gave it up completely when you revealed whatever it was you revealed. I wasn't really following the thread so I don't know. But this is getting ridiculous.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

You were in a pretty good spot anyway Dan considering you had the airbase fakeclaim and 0 suspicion on you. I think you had a pretty good chance.
Also, as for saying stuff immediately after I won, I was actually planning on posting complaints about you, PX, and Rawr at the end of the game after like the second day or something. Just saying.

His opinion that draws are 'pussy shit' is another matter.  That's only childish.

To me, a game like mafia that isn't based solely on individual play ending in a draw is nothing but a waste of time.

Anyway, you should really just chill out.

[ActionDan]

You were in a pretty good spot anyway Dan considering you had the airbase fakeclaim and 0 suspicion on you. I think you had a pretty good chance.
Also, as for saying stuff immediately after I won, I was actually planning on posting complaints about you, PX, and Rawr at the end of the game after like the second day or something. Just saying.
To me, a game like mafia that isn't based solely on individual play ending in a draw is nothing but a waste of time.

Anyway, you should really just chill out.

You claimed I 'threw the game'.  Your words.  That's a ridiculous and unfair assessment of my play.  I see at least half the playerbase here tacitly if not actively agreeing with you.   

I see no reason not to try and defend myself from such outlandish claims and at the same time try to beat some sense into people.  I neither agree nor like playing with people who think winning is everything.  I am doing what I think is right to try to at least challenge a unhealthy game environment. 

[Pesco]

I never said I didn't mind your plan. I said I didnt care. Of course it'd be fine to throw an all-in compromise but it's all your own fault when it backfires. Your talk about 1/3 chance, 50% chance is theoretical stats. In practicality, at 4p LyLo had you not outed yourself you could just kill Dormio and have won via endgame if Dormio kills the other townie or gotten a pretty favourable LyLo where you become vote-king by actually showing some play skill. Game of throws from the scumteam.

[ActionDan]

I never said I didn't mind your plan. I said I didnt care. Of course it'd be fine to throw an all-in compromise but it's all your own fault when it backfires. Your talk about 1/3 chance, 50% chance is theoretical stats. In practicality, at 4p LyLo had you not outed yourself you could just kill Dormio and have won via endgame if Dormio kills the other townie or gotten a pretty favourable LyLo where you become vote-king by actually showing some play skill. Game of throws from the scumteam.

Dormio would have known he was fucked and that scum would kill him.  He'd have nuked one 1/3 during the day, and NKed 1/2left at night.

[Pesco]

You're posting a lot now and still none if it shows that you wanted to win.

[ActionDan]

You're posting a lot now and still none if it shows that you wanted to win.

I want to perform as best I can.  If I'm playing a chess game and I'm in an inferior position and there is an option to draw by the use of perpetual check, I'm taking the draw

[Pesco]

You were in a position to win, you took a draw.

[I have no name]

There was the option to go all out, and the option to go for a draw.
The problem with the draw is it required Dormio to not play to win.
Therefore, the draw option was a loss option and so it was never an option to begin with for playing to win, if you noticed that.  You tried to win, sure, but messed up, got outplayed.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

really next time i'm hosting a mafia game i'm just including a rule saying "a draw means everybody loses"

[Shadoweh]

honestly any option that includes claiming scum in the thread should be a bad option

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Dormio would have known he was fucked and that scum would kill him.  He'd have nuked one 1/3 during the day, and NKed 1/2left at night.

Excluding the fact that I didn't know that the scum knew who I was and that I was completely convinced of Zakeri being the last scum? Sure, whatever.

I neither agree nor like playing with people who think winning is everything.  I am doing what I think is right to try to at least challenge a unhealthy game environment.

So... Don't play to win in a game where the goal is to win? Then what do you play for?
I personally think the current unhealthy game environment comes from apathy which is perpetuated by lurking which is why I planned to call out the lurkers in the post game in the first place.

Anyway, just chill lol.

[ActionDan]

There was the option to go all out, and the option to go for a draw.
The problem with the draw is it required Dormio to not play to win.
Therefore, the draw option was a loss option and so it was never an option to begin with for playing to win, if you noticed that.  You tried to win, sure, but messed up, got outplayed.

I got 'outplayed' by people playing sub optimally.  So hardly outplayed.  Just unlucky
The point is that Dormio playing for a win should have guaranteed his loss.  Had I known Zak was just as irrational as Dormio I would not have gone down that path.

[Raikaria]

Dan, the rules specifically say play to WIN not play to DRAW.

If given the choice, I don't think anyone would be willing to have given you a draw anyway, because of the complete lack of effort you put into the gamy. Frankly you didn't earn the win or a draw, if I was the last townie, I would have sided with the SK 100% simply due to that fact, and the SK would take a win over a draw.

[ActionDan]

Excluding the fact that I didn't know that the scum knew who I was and that I was completely convinced of Zakeri being the last scum? Sure, whatever.
So... Don't play to win in a game where the goal is to win? Then what do you play for?
I personally think the current unhealthy game environment comes from apathy which is perpetuated by lurking which is why I planned to call out the lurkers in the post game in the first place.

Anyway, just chill lol.

Once Shadoweh died everyone would have known you were scum.

I've played competitive chess for years now Dormio.  I think I know a bit more than you about the value of losing wining and drawing.

@Raikaria, see above

[Raikaria]

Excuse me for my point of view about you lurking and the effort you put in when I was pretty much the only townie wanting you lynched and calling out your scummy behavior. I pushed for your lynch pretty hard until Shadoweh looked even scummier to me, and then PX looked even worse.

Clearly I have to work on convincing the town to follow my reasons.

[ActionDan]

I played to my win con.  My posts were meant and tailored to give a vaguely town impression of my alignment while shutting down avenues to discourse with me.   Everyone was quite capable of pressuring me, and asking me questions, as you did.  When I hardly bothered, that was a case enough to push for my lynch, which you did.  The hard part is convincing others to vote with you.

Secondly, what are BT and Neko to you? They seem to get no consideration at all even though they were an integral part of the scum team