Author Topic: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D? (Maybe so!)  (Read 68125 times)

Stuffman

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Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D? (Maybe so!)
« on: December 18, 2009, 10:02:27 AM »
So.

I'm thinking that I may be able to start running a game again sometime in January, when my living arrangements will (hopefully) finally be sorted out, enabling me to have free time to work on stuff during the week again.

However, I'm wondering if I want to bother restarting D&D. I've had a lot of time to think about it and I've decided it may be too much work for what you get out of it.

D&D has a lot of overhead, and a very systematic way of doing things. Constructing a session involves making sure the party is fighting X monsters while getting Y gold and Z magic items; I have a big checklist to adhere to which can result in a bland and formulaic game. It also requires a detailed map to play because of all the small-scale movement, meaning the players cannot go anywhere that I haven't made a map for, thus running the rails is sometimes a necessity. Furthermore, in battle, the number of small factors and different actions that come into play per turn results in a complex and slow battle system, and it gets even slower because people tend to look away when it's not their turn (and really, I can't blame them).

In short, D&D 4E is a neat tactics game, but given my audience I think employing a more cinematic system is called for. I'd like to get more plot progress per session and have more freeform action, rather than slogging you guys through trivial encounters to make sure you're getting enough XP and loot and such.

Do you feel the same way? Let's talk about what you guys would like to run, since I'll probably be able to start again after the holidays and I could use some time to do a bit of brainstorming.

Here's a couple of system options, offhand;
- We can keep playing D&D if you want to, of course.
- As far as I know, Rabbit's game isn't running anymore, so I could run a game using Tri-Stat/BESM.
- Mutants and Masterminds is another system I'm interested in trying. It's a freeform points-based version of d20, and looks fairly well designed.
- If you know of any interesting systems you'd like me to look at, feel free to recommend them. (I'm not running Maid.)

Since we may be starting a new game, this isn't just for my old players, go ahead and chip in if you'd like to play in one of my games.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 08:45:34 AM by Stuffman »

Rabbit

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2009, 01:08:56 PM »
Time and scheduling issues made running my game with a healthy lineup virtually impossible and then work for uni dragged me down.  I'm sorry about the game but I agree with most of what you've said; D&D can be pretty tough to create a narrative story with.  I kinda get the feeling sometimes that it's what separates the good DMs from the bad ones (no comment on you of course, I think you did fine) - good DMs will be able to create a narrative story with D&D and bad ones will get mired in the d20 mechanics and end up hating the system generally.

If we're going to do a D&D campaign again, or even something completely different, I have some advice to dispense.  I was thinking about running a little game myself, to be honest.

Quote from: Rabbit's Thoughts on Roleplaying
I've said this before, and I'll say it again.  Roleplaying is a social contract between the DM and the players, and I won't deny that I've been as guilty as anyone of breaking it in the past.  A lot, in fact, and it's a constant struggle to remind myself to follow it.  You get as much out of a good RPG as you put into it.  So, here to help people in the future is the triangle of player commitment:

Skill
I'm not saying that newbies aren't welcome.  New people are here to learn and D&D is one of the easiest systems to learn on.  It is the gateway into Roleplaying.  But one of the easiest pitfalls that players fall into is not becoming familiar with your character, mechanics-wise.  You need to have a good understanding, even if it takes you a few sessions, of what your character can and can't do from the perspective of saving time during encounters and not dying during encounters.  Resurrection spells, while they exist, are not cheap.  Players need to know:

- The fundamentals of combat - move, then attack.  Charge if you want to be really fancy.  Something as obscure as the grappling rules you can look up as the situation calls for it.
- Your character's own attack rolls - have them written down.  Draw up a list of all the weapons you carry and what kind of bonuses they have to hit and damage.  It'll save you time and effort later on.
- Your character's abilities - Dailys, Encounters, Unlimiteds.  Keep track of them all because no one else is going to do it for you.  This takes honesty and integrity as well but that's not an issue with this community...is it? :3

My only request is that you do not take this as an insult to your intelligence because it's not.  I know many people who are so, so guilty of neglecting this aspect of themselves if they don't have someone to do it for them.  Stuffs was very nice with his D&D campaign but all you BESM players, if we ever pick up that campaign again I am crackin' the whip!

Understanding
Roleplaying is just that.  You're playing a role.  You are not yourself, you are someone else.  So another area in which I've found that players are lacking a bit is in character development.  A lot of people tend to write up a character background and not much else, and it's not even a very detailed one at that.  I remember when I did my BESM campaign Stuffman actually gave a model character sheet - it wasn't elaborate, richly detailed prose.  It was a document that outlined the basics of who his character was, where she was born, where she grew up, what she liked and disliked, how she approached certain situations.  That's step one.

Step two is to be consistent.  Roleplay those characteristics.  The more you practice the more you will find yourself fitting organically with your in-game self and if you find that difficult, well then maybe you can try a new character or suffer some life-changing event that affects your character's outlook.  Talk with your GM in private about your ideas.  Give them a better idea of what your character likes and doesn't like, of what they want and don't want.  I have a little story to relate to you of a Star Wars campaign I'm in:

We have a Jedi character.  Let's call him Jason, for the sake of argument.  Jason is pretty awesome but not in a broken way.  He devises creative ways to use his Force powers, always has a plan for the situation, and seems to single-handedly win combat encounters by himself.  We're all a little jealous of Jason and his one-man army ways but he keeps us alive and lets us continue enjoying the story, plus his player is a really nice guy when you get past the jackass exterior.  No, what really bothers us is that Jason is always getting all the cool plot hooks and interesting events seem to be happening to him behind our backs.  No one else is there so we can't know what's going on but there seem to be an awful lot of one-to-one exchanges between him and various GM characters.

So, on the very last session of the year, one of us finally has the courage to speak out.  Actually, it wasn't me.  But this other player says what we've all been thinking.  Jason is getting an awful lot of airtime.  We're part of the party too, right?  That's when we find out: Jason's player has been emailing our GM once a week every week with thoughts, ideas, or random chatter about his character.  Our campaign has been going on for several months now, with around one session a month, so you can imagine how much information has been accumulated over this period of time.  As a result, our GM has a very good idea of what Jason wants and doesn't want.  He knows Jason almost as well as he knows Jason's player and can see when he does things to advance his character's own personal goals and actively reward him for that.

Now you all don't have to do that and I wouldn't expect anyone in one of my groups to send me a PM every week about their characters, but this is a perfect illustration of how you can get the most out of a game.  The more you tell your GM, the more material he has to work with when writing stories.  You could get derailed from the main plot for ages working out something and that's all well and good because when it comes down to it, the GM's main story will always be there.  He might gently (or not-so-gently) try to lead you back onto the beaten path but at the end of the day wouldn't you want a good story to last forever?

Communication
This ties in with the above two very well.  If you want to do something or try something, or if you have problems, or if you want advice talk to the GM.  Poor communication kills.  Poor communication is why my campaign died.  And scheduling conflicts, and school work, and blah-blah-blah but you get the idea.  Contrary to popular belief most of us (I'm not sure about Purvis, to be honest but...) are not here to kill you or make your life difficult.  I can't vouch for anyone else but it makes me happy when people come and talk to me and say "oh my god, when so-and-so did that thing with the two wands of lighting and the keg of alchemist's fire it was AWESOME" or "I bet so-and-so is going to show up again later.  He's totally not dead."  It also gives me an idea of who's causing trouble or who you want to see more of.  That sort of thing.

So, in conclusion, the more effort you put into your character, both through the mechanics and the writing, the more you will get out of the experience.  I'll say it as many times as I need to.  Oh and, forgive me for slipping in a parting shot, but it's so easy to criticise a system for 'roll-playing' without actually bothering to write your own character or flesh them out.  Only a poor craftsman blames his tools.

Take these as you like.  I'm just giving us something to think about if/as we gear up for another round of games.  If I'm not mistaken most of the Maid RPG campaigns that dominated UGW back in the day have died so we might not have to share the same day.  Who knows?

EDIT: Oh, and in keeping with my current obsession with A Shoggoth on the Roof: OOH!  OOH!  STUFFMAN!  RUN CALL OF CTHULHU!  RUN IT NOW!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 01:13:12 PM by Rabbit »
Too much of a good thing, and it is no longer good.

Pesco

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2009, 01:38:23 PM »
I've been keeping a time slot just for you, Stuffman. I'd be happy to do DnD again (less learning of a new system and PSYCHADELIC BEARS!). If it's something else, I'll still give it a try.

Rabbit

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2009, 03:44:10 PM »
PSYCHADELIC BEARS!

Our Call of Cthulhu game must now include psychadelic bears.

Spoiler:
Not that you should feel pressured to run CoC or anything.  Don't do it if you don't want to.
Too much of a good thing, and it is no longer good.

Stuffman

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2009, 05:20:12 PM »
I don't think anyone would be able to take a game of CoC I ran seriously :V (Also, I'd like you guys to survive more than two sessions).

I don't actually mind doing the work to run D&D, I just kind of got the sense you guys weren't having fun because of how rigid it can be.

Pesco

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2009, 05:22:33 PM »
I liked the systematics and the more traditionalised western fantasy setting.

And I felt pretty snazzy with my own dice macros ;D.

Fightest

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2009, 09:55:31 PM »
I'm curious, but how does this work? Do you use them fancy online tabletop software doohickeys?


Side comment: DnD is not the easiest system to learn on. It's taken leaps and bounds to be thus, though.

Pesco

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2009, 09:58:22 PM »
I'm curious, but how does this work? Do you use them fancy online tabletop software doohickeys?

We used MapTools.

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2009, 10:15:43 PM »
We used MapTools.

Aah, I hear good things about it. Well, I'm interested.

UncertainJakutten

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2009, 10:16:31 PM »
I'd be interested if it were 3.5e, but as far as I know you always run 4e, right?


Stuffman

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2009, 01:06:23 AM »
3.5E is another option. Actually, it would probably be easier for me as I know a lot more about 3.5E than 4E, and it tends to play faster. It's not much fun to play for core melee types though, and the tactical aspect kind of falls apart because the game's balance is unsalvagable. Still, it's better for a game that's less combat-focused than 4E.

Pesco

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2009, 05:53:19 AM »
Gonna need the books for 3.5e if that's what we end up doing.

Also, hows the PvP options for 3.5?

Stuffman

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2009, 06:31:47 AM »
Actually, that's a key design point of 3.5; players and monsters play by the same rules and everything is compatible, so for instance, a monster can level up in a class, and as such, players can play as any humanoid monster race. A player and a monster of the same level are considered roughly equal, therefore NPCs and other players function normally in combat against each other.

Meanwhile in 4E, all this was abandoned and monster stats and abilities are purely arbitrary, and they play by different rules. That part of 4E was a total design failure...

tl;dr - Yes you can do PvP. (However, interparty conflict generally marks the collapse of a campaign, so I'm not sure why you would want to do that.)

Pesco

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2009, 06:55:05 AM »
PvP as a side event. Or maybe if one of the party suddenly starts joining the other team, they'd have to regain Friendship Through Defeat ;D.

Seian Verian

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2009, 07:18:41 AM »
D&D? Sounds interesting... Well, even if you don't actually do D&D, but whatever. I already go to D&D every Friday (granted, I just started...) and I've been really into RPing since I discovered it early this year (Late February. As in, so late that I just usually say I started in March)

Anyway, it doesn't matter to me what system is used. I'm more used to freeform than anything else, and many of the characters I have probably wouldn't work well in anything stat-based, but at the same time, I do have some that would probably be easy to transition, so in the end, I can probably deal with whatever. Just please don't put us into utterly hopeless situations, I like my characters not dead thank you very much :V

Stuffman

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2009, 07:27:25 AM »
Okay, so how do you guys feel about a 3.5E game then?

I have a PDF of every book. Every single one.

Note that if we play it I will be applying liberal handwavium in making awful classes and races less awful, so you should hopefully be able to play whatever you want and remain relevant.

Pesco

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2009, 07:50:26 AM »
/in for the Sunday-after-lunch (EST?) time slot

Seian Verian

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2009, 07:53:18 AM »
As I said, just about anything could probably work for me. So like Pesco, I'm /in :P I have tons and tons of free time, so it doesn't matter much when it happens.

Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2009, 07:56:15 AM »
I miss 3.5, haven't gotten to play since I moved away from my old group. Schedule's pretty much wide-open (though I do typically keep late-but-not-nocturnal hours CST) until early January, not sure what it'll look like when school starts up again but weekends are still pretty much free for sure.

Stuffman

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2009, 08:05:31 AM »
Alright cool, 3.5 it is.

It's a new game, so I'm gonna reset the roster. Everyone who's interested go ahead and post, and if it's more than I can manage we'll figure something out.

I'll start thinking of a setting. It's a broken game from the outset, so we're gonna do something a little more crazy this time. :V

I'll hand out books once I know what I'm doing. Obviously it's gonna be a pain to distribute every book to every person, so once I know what kind of character you want to run I'll just get you the relevant material so you can make your picks.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 08:07:58 AM by Stuffman »

Jana

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2009, 08:06:25 AM »
I'd be interested if my timing wasn't so up in the air. I don't know how my living arrangements are gonna make for playing games online, but I'll keep poking my head in here. (Maybe I could finally learn how to play a stat-based RP...)

Seian Verian

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2009, 08:08:14 AM »
It's very well established that I'm interested, just posting anyway since you said to go on and do so :V

Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2009, 08:20:22 AM »
It's very well established that I'm interested, just posting anyway since you said to go on and do so :V

Yep, same.

Since I haven't played with you all before, just me in tabletop gaming in brief: I'm definitely much more adept at crunch than fluff, so while I certainly try not* to forgo RP altogether, I usually end up being a little quiet and letting those more adept have the spotlight. (I think it may be an extension of the fact that my creativity in general seems to come in broad strokes with only the occasional smattering of detail.) I lean very mildly powergame-y in D&D; my builds will usually be at least somewhat optimized but within the character concept, and I do actively try to avoid the really broken shit. (... except for my softspot for Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, though I haven't actually played it. >_> At least it's not Incantatrix?)

*this was a very important word to not forget to put in in the process of rephrasing like I originally did

In the meantime I'll try to dig up some old builds I never got the chance to use and start playing around with other stuff once we've got some stuff set. Probably won't settle on anything until I see what everyone else I thinking of, I'm always willing to fill in the party holes. =D
« Last Edit: December 19, 2009, 08:30:49 AM by Arashi Kurobara »

Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2009, 08:26:56 AM »
I'm very familiar with the 3.5 ruleset, but not any of the bells and whistles, such as fancy classes or creature types. Winter break just started so hopefully I can join.

Seian Verian

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D?
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2009, 08:55:42 AM »
Oh, forgot to go into details on my playstyle and stuff O_O;

Well... I like to fit existing character ideas I've had to roleplays, and other stuff like it (For example, when playing Elder Scrolls games) As I've already said, some of them might be difficult to transition. But as I also said, I have characters that are entirely workable as well.

When playing, I actually like to go into the roleplay part of it more than just the combat, even though I've always thought of the combat systems in video games and stuff as a key point. I like playing my different characters, with their different personalities. I learn more about them, and about myself as I play. Of course, I also try to do things to make everything more fun, to what degree I can. Of course, I can only do so much when there's a GM watching over the game rather than there being a freeform RP that I can try to push into another direction, but I'll do my best.

On that note, I hope the GM will be open to suggestions on different things. I do tend to get lots of ideas as I roleplay, that especially in something like this, I might not be able to do on my own, and I might end up actually bringing them up. Though granted, for some reason I tend to be strangely reluctant to make suggestions at the same time... Tend to be afraid that anyone who sees it will be like "...What the heck is wrong with you? That's a stupid idea!" x: And even when I do mention them, I'll sometimes be like "...Why did I say it?" and suddenly start wanting to un-say it even when there's absolutely no reason that what I said could be any problem whatsoever <_<;

As far as how my characters work in combat, I'm not sure how well I'll do. I don't tend to go much for "builds" on stuff like this, because it doesn't always work with my character concepts that well. Instead, I try to fit abilities to the characters I'm using. Of course, it doesn't always work out precisely how I might want, due to the limits of how things work on stuff like this, but sometimes, I actually learn more things about my character due to things like that.

Regardless, I'm looking forward to playing this with everyone. It's always interesting to go into a new RP or whatever, and seeing how other people play. Actually, RPing is how I met most of the people I know online, and... Come to think of it, to some extent, real life as well, thanks to the D&D thing I now go to.

...For some reason, I feel like I'm completely forgetting something, even while looking at this, I have no idea why I typed it up :V There are random comments I'm not sure why I made in there, as with everything... Ah well, already did it, whatever. Maybe everyone will think I'm insane. Maybe they'll be right... Well, whatever. *posts*

Pesco

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D? (Maybe so!)
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2009, 09:01:45 AM »
I liekz to be Marisa. Squishy and all about nuking things ;D.

Could give being a support type a go, not sure if I can play a good tank though.

My RP style is very inconsistent :/.

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D? (Maybe so!)
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2009, 09:17:45 AM »
3.5 huh? I've had... not the best of experiences with 3.5, but I'm sure it'll be fine. I'm interested, and would I be able to use material from the Book of Nine Swords? I like playing tanks, and the Crusader makes for a great tank/party support.

RP-wise, I enjoy watching people do cool stuff, and enjoy doing cool stuff as well. I tend to like the odd shenanigans, and prefer it if things weren't too serious some of the time.

Oh. Timeslots. You American folk are on quite the offset, specifically 6 hours BACK IN TIIIIIIIME. I'd really appreciate it if that was kept in account, and that Pesco-suggested after-lunch time slot is actually quite nice, but if you can't, oh well, I guess it's not for me :(.

Stuffman

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D? (Maybe so!)
« Reply #27 on: December 19, 2009, 09:21:20 AM »
The game will run in the same timeslot as before 11 AM EST (4 PM GMT).

And yes, the Tome of Battle is fine. Encouraged in fact, since core fighters are woefully inadequate.

Seian Verian

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Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D? (Maybe so!)
« Reply #28 on: December 19, 2009, 09:31:18 AM »
Er... By the way, this just occurred to me... Am I going to need the rulebooks and stuff? I actually don't have any, and come to think of it, I'm inexperienced enough that it might be a problem. I didn't even realize that druids were Divine spellcasters rather than Arcane until today <_<;

Fightest

  • Fighter than anyone else
Re: Stuffman's weekly game, maybe not D&D? (Maybe so!)
« Reply #29 on: December 19, 2009, 09:55:29 AM »
The game will run in the same timeslot as before 11 AM EST (4 PM GMT).

And yes, the Tome of Battle is fine. Encouraged in fact, since core fighters are woefully inadequate.

Ah, awesome on both accounts.

[edit] It's not that they're inadequate per se... just really boring.