GOD DAMNIT CHAORE Mafia (A.k.a. Mafia RPG!) - GAME OVER, SCUM WIN.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

He did, didn't he?

SD: I don't mean this offensively, but is it really necessary to make a post implying that you hate various players of this game when you were not even in it and, as far as I gather, have not even been in very many games yourself? :|

[Bardiche]

What is going on in this thread, why are we raging.

[Chaore]

Eh, I guess Chaore isn't going to make an end-game post?

well i was, but neo kinda linked all there is.

unless you guys want me to toss out awards and stuff. i could do that!

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

@ Bard: D4 starts on page 15, if you want to find out for yourself.

[Hanged Hourai]

unless you guys want me to toss out awards and stuff. i could do that!

Well I don't see why not~

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Bardiche should win an award for actually crumbing Musicboxman, I think that's hilarious.

[PX]

I should win an award for not only ALMOST killing both scum, but for actually killing both cops

[Seian Verian]

SD: I don't mean this offensively, but is it really necessary to make a post implying that you hate various players of this game when you were not even in it and, as far as I gather, have not even been in very many games yourself? :|

Going by a strict definition of the word "necessary"? No, I suppose not. I wouldn't use the word "various" either, as I believe the number is rather small for that term. And no, I haven't been in many games myself. And I'm not remotely going to claim that I did remotely well in any way shape or form either. But that really doesn't change the sheer amount of horrible that was blatantly obvious even to someone who personally doesn't HAVE any appreciable skill in Mafia.

[Bardiche]

Yeah I read it.

So basically reVelske is angry and insulted people didn't automatically assume that No, Rev Would Never Lie To Us and, in a game based around deceiving, insinuated he was a liar...

... meanwhile observers are raging at Mudkips as well...

... and the mod is completely absent while some people consider if the setup was really balanced?

Did I catch everything now? Man, you guys. Rev, chill the heck down. This is a game where you're meant to lie and deceive if you are scum. It is not weird people will assume that whatever extremist views you have (and yes, not lying ever is an extremist view to me) would be abandoned in favour of the game, since you choose to play a game based around lying.

I can understand one rage, but your rage, Rev? No, totally uncalled for. You can't blame people for not believing you are the shining pinnacle of honesty never before seen in the world; the world isn't that nice, and neither is this game.


@Huhwhat: Well I figured I should crumble, even though I took the rule as ridiculous and assumed no use out of it. It's a Mafia tradition to do role madness with bastard modding and screw over one or two people by making them vanilla. It's like everyone got a toy but you, except the mod tries to make you think you got a toy.

But just in case a sixtuple killer was around, I wanted to crumble it.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Aside from kips, I don't think people were that rage-incudingly horrible this game, honestly. Conqueror and Sect were not actually that bad for newbies in my opinion (I enjoyed reading Sect's posts even if I did suspect him), and while PX and reV were pretty ehhhh, they weren't unforgivably terrible to the extent that their play should draw ire.

@ Bard: The mod is around, I believe. Serela posted a link to the mod quicktopic at least, which has the set-up.

[Serp]

I'm not trying to rub my principle in people's face if that's what it's coming across as, I'm merely defending my principle and explaining why the hell am I raging so hard about this, and I understand perfectly that people don't have to be playing "my" game, but the frustration does really set in after a while.

"Your" game seems to be to mildly disadvantage yourself as scum so you have a trump card to play as town.  Whether your reasons are more noble than that or not, it's still not sportsmanlike.  If you're too busy playing "your" game to play by the etiquette of ours, you probably shouldn't be signing up in the first place.

[Doll.S CUBE]

Hmm, I'm wondering, how does role claim work?

[Bardiche]

Hmm, I'm wondering, how does role claim work?

You tell others what your role is.

Or you bullshit a claim.

Scum usually does the latter. Town should sometimes. We had an actual role madness game, everyone a role... except one guy was "vanilla". When he claimed he got lynched immediately.

Roleclaim is usually done at LyLo. Anyone insisting you roleclaim without roleclaiming themselves should always be taken with caution. Roleclaim when you're about to be lynched, too; not all mods reveal what your role does, and it's useful to town to know.

Fullclaim also involves divulging who you targeted and why.

[reVelske]

NOOOO, that's NOT what I'm really raging about! FML. /wrist.

For the last time, I rage because I lost my streak of never being town lynched, now it usually wouldn't be so bad, but to end it on such a terrible note and being accused of something that's completely against my principle is like a massive slap on the face. THAT is what I'm raging about. Also, it's partly from the frustration that I am still unable to establish my meta and begin to using it to my advantage, I understand that the attempt itself may very well  never work and I do not really expect people to play how I want them to play, it's totally just a side bonus of playing with such a principle, if I don't get that benefit, tough luck, you know. But it does make it a little frustrating, considering I've manage to establish it with ease on different community.

And also how everyone just wrote kitten off because her action is "pro-town", and nobody seems to relate her playstyle to that of Affinity's from last two game and just how easily he won it all.

"Your" game seems to be to mildly disadvantage yourself as scum so you have a trump card to play as town.  Whether your reasons are more noble than that or not, it's still not sportsmanlike.  If you're too busy playing "your" game to play by the etiquette of ours, you probably shouldn't be signing up in the first place.

Last part was a bit uncalled for, no? I still think you are exaggerating, despite that I can see where you are coming from. The "ettiquette" of yours is no different from the ettiquette of any mafia community, assuming you speak of deception. It certainly does take away scum's main tool of the game, a good example with kitten's final day's play. Despite her constant "pro-town" play with little that can be used to incriminate her, without that final fakeclaim, she'd have been in a whole lot more trouble than how things turned out. I have nothing to argue against that with. It's giving myself a lot more work and, I suppose, putting my faction at a slight disadvantage, but I really don't think it's critical enough to be called "unsportsmanlike". It's as disadvantageous for your faction to join the game as a newbie or as someone who knows that he/she isn't good at deduction and deception.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

When did people say K4U was pro-town? Like I said, I thought she was scummier than you, but was willing to vote you instead because your reactions to her (quite believable) claim came off like floundering scum.

[Kips McKipzerson]

blah blah blah my streak was broke mad.

That's really all I see.

It's a god damned game, You shouldn't get mad is some "streak" was broken.  And I think we all can admit that a little (or a lot) of this game was stupid planning and stupid moves, no? Oh, and to all my haters out there, I love ya. More attention for me. >.>

[reVelske]

@huhwhat: D1-3. I'm pretty certain you've called her pro-town and liked every part of her play sometime during Day 3.

@Kips: You still don't get it do you, refer to the example I've given  earlier and try again, ie. honest man being hanged for accused of being a liar, and fine, maybe it's not so much about the streak as it is about the massive slap I felt.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

@huhwhat: D1-3. I'm pretty certain you've called her pro-town and liked every part of her play sometime during Day 3.

I am fairly confident I never did that.
The only person I recall finding particularly pro-town on D3 was Pesco.

[PX]

Nobody ever voted K4U

Until the end

...ever

[Chaore]

oh okay right then

SHINY AWARDS LIST

Huhwhat/Holywhat- Town Jesus
Back on the third day- Get NK'd the very first night.
x2 CONFIRMATION COMBO- Not only be confirmed townie by death, but also by having -saved town from LYLO- on your return.
Till the end of the Story- Survive till the end of the game after revival.

Hanged Hourai- Town Bi-Polar Cop
He killed me- Immediately identify who killed you in Dead QT.
Sane Man- Only make Sane Investigations.
In the Line of Duty- Die before even getting your investigation.

Pesco- Town Useless NPC
Only good for saving town- Single-handedly pretty much almost win the game by pushing the lynch for the first scum and suggesting Vig on the second.
Jesus Disciple- Die in Jesus' place.
First Post Mindhax- What was that about kitten being lurkscum again...?

Zakeri- Town Defense Attorney
Cop-Friendly- Avoid managing to mess up Bi-polar's investigation.
Dead Man's Innocence- Have you investigation target die the following night.
I'm vanilla- Summarily get left with absolutely nothing for D3. Ain't it sad?

Kitten4u- Mafia Vote Thief
THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE- Be the last remaining Mafia.
Ninja Kitty- Lurk the entire game. Get away with it.
Friend of Jesus- Decide to let Jesus live after all. Get rewarded by having him support your victory.

reVelske- Town Paladin
Restraining Order- Miss with your ability.
Tank is Down- End the game with your death.

Schezo- Mafia Godfather
Sunsetter- Get the sun dropped on you.
Serial Killer, The real threat!- Try to take advantage of the threat of a third party.
wait what- Get lynched for trying to take advantage of the threat of a third party.

Sect- Town Useless NPC
Tastes like Cherries!- Go as heavy handed with your flavor as possible. If only you stayed in.

Conqueror- Town Useless NPC
Ghost Detective- Piece the entire game together in the Dead QT.
MANIPUL8- B)

iliekmudkips- Town Useless NPC
mudkipz- Like mudkips.

Golden PX- Town Sniper
Town MVP...not.- Get set up to shoot the final scum...only to change targets at the last second.
Cop Killer- Kill all the cops. All of them.
Suicidal Maniac- Offer to kill yourself.
Fake Serial Killer- Shoot the gun. Be the serial killer. Except not.

Bardiche- Town Musicboxman
6x Hammer Vote Combo- Crumb your role in a way no one would ever expect. Seriously, how do you come up with this.
Under the Heat- Attract all the investigations. All of them. Wait, Didn't I do this joke already...?

Neoserela- Town Co-Moderator.
Good Co-Mod, Best Friend- Be the best Vote count bitch there ever was. Love ya!

and that I think, Is all I have to say to wrap this game up. o7

[Kitten4u]

Ninja Kitty- Lurk the entire game. Get away with it.

B-but.   I didn't even lurk that much more than I normally would. 

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

I got a good chuckle out of the acheivements/awards, good job on those. Probably the best thing to come out of this game.

[Pesco]

If bofh could be arsed to even post here, he'd say mudkips is banned from mafia. I know I've got an aye on that call from his protege. Mudkips kindly go learn to play elsewhere before coming back here ever again.

Still not on campus yet for those guys waiting for me. Dunno if I can even get there with potential protest action going on.

[Serp]

reV, you admit that your principles require you to sacrifice your performance in the current game to get an advantage in later games.  That goes about as directly against the spirit of the game as is possible.  In a competitive game like Mafia, you should be doing your best to win in every single game.  To willfully fail to do so is borderline trolling.

[reVelske]

Principles are very much a part of someone assuming it isn't some lack-lusting makeshift piece of crap that one can toss aside whenever, it isn't what you can call willful or purposeful sacrifice made to disadvantage anyone else, on the contrary, it is there with the best of intentions for everyone else. Regardless, my point is that is is a PART of a person, an attribute, no different from, say, a personal who has an inability to be conclusive, someone who is always two-minded about everything, someone who has a difficult time trusting other (oh hi paranoia), someone whose complicated thought cycle always leads them to come to really far-fetched and unrealistic deduction/conclusion. It's just who they are, who we are. People's personalities and attributes will inevitably affect the overall effectiveness of scumhunting depending on what they are exposed to, a principle is no different in that respective.

[Affinity]

If I remember correctly, SD, you asked for a replacement during LyLO and left town to die due to 'emotional pressure', which kind of voids any kind of credibility you might have on commenting this game.

ReVelske, lying... I suppose, is pretty much a fundumental part of Mafia, no matter what your principles might tell you.  You are free to play the game with whatever handicaps you impose on yourself, but the thing is that you cannot blame anyone else or rage about how everyone else isn't believing you... since the majority believe that lying is a fundamental part of the game, especially as scum, and mafia is all about the majority. 

And K4U was pretty much 'active lurking' in a game where pretty much everyone was giving their all; she certainly wasn't that hard to implicate.

As for my way being the best 'objective' way to play scum, no, it certainly is not.  There is the vested interest of keeping your scumbuddies alive as scum, which is the fundamental objective reason for the differences in the content of scum and town in a game with investigative/vig roles; e.g if FFMaster decided to investigate me earlier in JK9, I would have been toast; I did not want Roukanken lynched, etc.  Scum can certainly pretend to be pro-town for a brief amount of time, but they can't be pro-town forever because they would be playing poker with the cops and the trackers if they push for their buddies' lynches without sophistication, which is what I did during JK9.  The aim of town is to spot this sophistication in a convincing way; which has been done in past games (FAV's greatest moment in WTC Mafia, etc.).  There's nothing wrong with using a little meta in your reasoning, but you must balance it with what is on the topic.

[Shadoweh]

Hooray, I finally got to watch a Mafia game from start to finish! Now to see how well I did on the At-Home Game:

Scum: Day 3 - reVelske + Zakeri or Kitten4u.. Zakeri gives reVelske pass for meta reV is not following,
Kitten4u wants to lynch 4 town in a row.. ReVelske + Zakeri for first scum pair
Also reV is acting incredibly silly day 1 unlike past games
Pesco gets wild third place for not trying to annoy people to death
PX for Serial Killer because obviously rite

My scumpair wasn't even scum! I thought reV was scum because he didn't seem to be taking the game seriously until day 3. (Voting Pesco because his face was scummy) Sorry for not believing your doctor claim. Looking back at day 1 after day 3, if you look at Kitten's list she set up 4 proven townies (or 3 +1SK) to be lynched in order. I would never have caught Schezo    Good luck next time town  :3

[Suwako Moriya]

Principles are very much a part of someone assuming it isn't some lack-lusting makeshift piece of crap that one can toss aside whenever, it isn't what you can call willful or purposeful sacrifice made to disadvantage anyone else, on the contrary, it is there with the best of intentions for everyone else. Regardless, my point is that is is a PART of a person, an attribute, no different from, say, a personal who has an inability to be conclusive, someone who is always two-minded about everything, someone who has a difficult time trusting other (oh hi paranoia), someone whose complicated thought cycle always leads them to come to really far-fetched and unrealistic deduction/conclusion. It's just who they are, who we are. People's personalities and attributes will inevitably affect the overall effectiveness of scumhunting depending on what they are exposed to, a principle is no different in that respective.

This does nothing to address Serp's concern that your principles are going against the core rule and mechanic of MotK Mafia, which is to play to win the game you're playing.

If you intentionally sacrifice performance or tactical ground in a current game in the name of getting an advantage in future games, then perhaps this is not the site for you.

[Vibri]

I'm pretty sure he's saying he refuses to tell a lie out of principle, not because it's in any way beneficial to him. I think willfully choosing to play the game at a disadvantage is different than just being bad in some way, since you can try to avoid being paranoid or coming up with unlikely scenarios or whatever, but you're free to play how you like, reV. I think you should take the game less seriously, though. Don't have a panic attack because someone called you a liar and people voted for you, that's dumb.

[Suwako Moriya]

I admit I'm taking this statement at face value, not having the opportunity presently to go over the topic with a fine-toothed comb.

reV, you admit that your principles require you to sacrifice your performance in the current game to get an advantage in later games.  That goes about as directly against the spirit of the game as is possible.

If this statement is factually incorrect, then I will revise my own.

It is also worth noting that the parallel drawn to "newbies put their faction at a tactical disadvantage" is a false one because newbies are still theoretically trying their best to win the game for their team, however misguided they may be. It's a case of making an active choice to hamper your team vs. making an unconscious and mistaken choice that hampers your team.