Path of Radiance Mafia -Game Over-

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

To elaborate, I end up posting hyperbole as town because on MotK that's the only way to get people to acknowledge anything you say if you aren't already a big name player, not counting acknowledgment by way of picking apart your arguments and mislynching you.

Though I'm really just elaborating on this out of personal frustration with it. <_<

[Conqueror]

Shadoweh: I'll rephrase that: what makes you think Serela might be scum this game instead of I mean I can think of plenty of times he's been lynched for being useless. Your vote post only tells me you're voting him for the wagon jump?

As for why he'd reread me I dunno he can say stuff when he can be arsed to post.


Cut by hw: Eh, fair enough. I don't really think it's indicative of Serela scum though because he can also fluff content as town.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Well he's not going to learn if we don't start mislynching him for it every game he's in :T

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Serious response: I don't think he's actually "fluffing content" here. If you want to get meta, then town!Serela does go out of his way to find original points when possible, from my experience.

[Conqueror]

In unrelated news when Bardiche gets here I want to know how on earth he can manage attacking huhwhat for having a bad vote on me and having that as a justification for a vote and then, in the same exact post, attacking me because he doesn't know why I'm calling huhwhat's vote contrived. Do I really need to highlight something it looks like you can see for yourself

Unless I'm misreading what "current newsletters I want to subscribe to" means.

Anyway I'll elaborate on this later I really have to get something done.

[Conqueror]

Hw: I suppose I'll wait for Serela's response then!

[Shadoweh]

Conq: Because his statement about how many votes his target was at sounded like he was looking for a safe place to put his vote instead of on someone he thought was scum.

[Pesco]

Where do your priorities stand in regards to me - Tricksy - Serela?

I want both of them to explain their votes. You're not a town read to me, so you're still suspicious.

When were you feeling Dan as today's lynch? Last I checked you've been pushing me this entire time. You did acknowledge Dan as scummy, but never actually went out of your way to lynch him today.

Quite right because I wanted you lynched at the time. You're being proactive which is better than what Shadoweh is doing.

You're still talking about Conqueror, Dormio, huh what and PX right? At least half of those people you know wouldn't bother to abuse meta-tells and the other half don't really have meta-scum tells to me so much as attitudes that feel townie or scummy. The second line is a meaningless accusation holding me responsible for not elegantly first-post-mind-haxing the entire scum team [this game]. It's a work in progress.

The difference between them, as you would notice if you were astute, was related to which one of them I was voting. I did explain all my townreads, but if you'd read the paragraphs before the tl;dr maybe you'd know that.

I only had Conq and HW in mind when I said that. But it can apply to Dormio and PX as well. The meta-tell of wall-fighting applies to the whole playerbase. It's not an individual thing. Conq and HW are the kind of people I think are smart enough to actively abuse the situation. Dormio and PX would more likely do it as they got caught up in it. The point is, there is no reason to disregard the first big argument of any game as always being town vs town. To further that, only scum would know it's a mess between townies. It's worthless just dismissing it without persuading people to stop wasting their time on a pointless fight.

I keep hearing how yopu're supposed to be a good player, one of the better ones in the active playerbase. Am I wrong to expect that you're capable of scumhunting? Scum don't scumhunt. If you aren't scumhunting, then you are scum and I will vote to lynch you. Scumhunting doesn't only kick in on Day 2. It begins the moment you make your confirmation post.

The difference I read between your two groups is that you'd consider the cases on the people you declared as would lynch. Dan getting a vig without a claim meant you just want him dead no matter what he has to say. There isn't much of a case on Serela yet and you're ready to jump him. What's the pattern here? You don't scumhunt and then push a throwaway vote without even checking the game state thoroughly.

In short Dan is town enough that quickwagons are strange.

This does not compute with how eager you were to lynch him.

[Shadoweh]

If you're going to use reasons like 'You're a good player' again we're not going to get very far in this game. It's certainly not a titled I've ever pushed on myself. I've never been good at Day 1. Frankly on the topic of metafights, I think you're wrong, and that you'd make a superb lynch. You aren't a townread to me, either. I believe I have been scumhunting. 

As for Dan, I changed my mind. This is how I collect reads. I accuse and see how the interactions go. Something in his tone was different in his second post that made me regret my wishes to see him dead. Now I'm going to push Serela until either he's lynched or he does the same.

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

That's completely arbitrary. Seriously why is there presumably at least one scum between us besides because it's three votes in a row?

I just realized I somehow parsed this as "why can't we be scumbuddies".
Sometimes I wonder if I actually read things or if I just glance at a few words and assume what the sentence is saying.
I also wish people would point out my mistakes when I make totally misled posts instead of waiting for me to be stupid a few hours later.

Still, see response to Conq,

[Pesco]

If you're going to use reasons like 'You're a good player' again we're not going to get very far in this game. It's certainly not a titled I've ever pushed on myself. I've never been good at Day 1. Frankly on the topic of metafights, I think you're wrong, and that you'd make a superb lynch. You aren't a townread to me, either. I believe I have been scumhunting. 

As for Dan, I changed my mind. This is how I collect reads. I accuse and see how the interactions go. Something in his tone was different in his second post that made me regret my wishes to see him dead. Now I'm going to push Serela until either he's lynched or he does the same.

So you mean that it's always town vs town unless Pesco is one of them? Not being good at Day 1 does not give you a pass to be JOB until Day 2. You've been called out by not just me for not scumhunting.

The change of mind is only what you say here because I don't see where the read became different in your voteswitch post. When you responded to #170 you also didn't say anything to indicate the changed read. You're voting for the heck of it and that's why your votes have been opportunistic.

It should also be noted that you've admitted to voteparking on Serela. He's not going to get lynched unless you've got a case to convince the rest of us. And quite frankly, the pressure you've tried to put on people all day has never been worth responding to when it's so easy to make you remove your vote.

[Shadoweh]

It has a high percent chance of being town vs town and my views of the people arguing substantiate my claim. You don't do early game arguments so the question of if you were town to be involved in one has never come into being before. After you've made this point it would be WIFOM in the next game.

Apparently my change of mind was easy enough to read in my intent that other people could tell how I felt. I'd say I'm surprised you didn't see it but you're horrible at reading me.

As for voteparking, no, I believe Serela has a decent chance of being lynched today. I've not voted for anyone I think is a lost cause.

[Shadoweh]

In other news, I figured out why I can't read! I've gotten used to viewing black text on a white background and trying to read the font here is hurting. I'll try and fix it tomorrow so I can see all the delightful tidbits I get left.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Oh, right, mafia. That's what that nagging feeling at the back of my head is coming from.
That, and my eyes also hurt right now.
Oh well, whatever.

Conq you never responded to me like you said you would.

These anti-Shadoweh sentiments are ones that I can really get behind.
Like I said in #81 where I switched to Conq, that did not necessarily mean that I liked Shadoweh any more.
To be honest, I kind of ignored Shadoweh from her #131 opinion post onwards, so I'm doing that reread now.

Well, Affinity is scummy, but that's like saying people need air to breathe.

What the hell is this statement, anyway?
You say that your vote is in a good place, but you never explain how so.

Why is huh what at like five votes for being hyperactive? Shutup with your this isn't my case on him, he's the one replying to as many posts as possible, of course he sounds disjointed.  Just look back at what you're doing and realize this wagon looks incredibly silly.

I also find this defence of HW to be highly interesting.

Rawr's response is adorable. I'm doing it because I want to watch you squirm. Do you think I'm scummy for this? Is there a problem with my posts you wish to address beyond where my vote has landed? You are uninvolved, I'm practically doing you a favor by prodding at you.

Rawr: Hold on, let me read your adorable cut. That's some hilarious flailing there. Unrelated to your alignment, are you a native english speaker? Unrelated, why don't you understand BT's case on Dormio when you agree with his vote?

Would lynch: Serela, Rawr, Pesco

This is a thing and it feels bad and Shadoweh should feel bad.
I think that Shadoweh is manipulating Rawr to her very best to try to trap him in some weird ass conclusion thing.
For example, branding Rawr's demands for her to unvote him when she voted Rawr for pretty much no reason as "squirming" and "flailing". Naturally, these words have their own connotations attached. I think that this is rather heavy handed for Shadoweh.
In addition, I feel like you're trying to misrep Rawr with the whole "why don't you understand BT's case on Dormio when you agree with his vote?".
I'm only saying this because I don't think anyone else has pointed it out, but where did Rawr say that he agreed with BT's vote?
Surely you're not going to tell me, Shadoweh, that by voting for me Rawr was agreeing with BT's opinion. Because, you know, different people can vote the same thing for different reasons.

In short Dan is town enough that quickwagons are strange.

Well, that was an interesting change of heart.

though it's hard to find it because of the annoying quotebox wall you're doing

You seemed more than content to quotewar with me last game. :wat:

As for voteparking, no, I believe Serela has a decent chance of being lynched today. I've not voted for anyone I think is a lost cause.

And what of your votes on myself, DrRawr and ActionDan? Also, I just feel like sticking this quote in here, since Shadoweh was talking about who she votes for and why and stuff.

Now to make huh what doubt himself by sheeping to him.

As you may have been able to infer, I don't particularly like how Shadoweh looks out of the recent Shadoweh v Pesco exchange.

How many votes is Shadoweh at now, anyway? It's actually rather difficult for me to quickly scroll through the topic to check right now.
Well. ##Unvote
##Vote Shadoweh

[Shadoweh]

How many votes is Shadoweh at now, anyway? It's actually rather difficult for me to quickly scroll through the topic to check right now.
Well. ##Unvote
##Vote Shadoweh

Three.

I forgot about the vote on you. That's the only one that doesn't count. Rawr is a newbie and would be easy to lynch if I felt inclined to push it. Are you implying Dan was somehow not a wagon? My point stands. Quote waring with you was stupid and we should have stopped ten posts before we did. Also note it was town vs town and I got lynched for it. Why would I want to repeat that?

I always read Affinity as scummy, even when he's town. That's what it means. I don't think Rawr would be a bad lynch, his chances of being flailing scum are decent considering he hasn't been jumped on for his antics. Huh what is town, you got a problem with that besides calling it interesting? Interesting isn't an opinion one way or the other, and you use it twice.
 

This is a thing and it feels bad and Shadoweh should feel bad.
I think that Shadoweh is manipulating Rawr to her very best to try to trap him in some weird ass conclusion thing.
For example, branding Rawr's demands for her to unvote him when she voted Rawr for pretty much no reason as "squirming" and "flailing". Naturally, these words have their own connotations attached. I think that this is rather heavy handed for Shadoweh.
In addition, I feel like you're trying to misrep Rawr with the whole "why don't you understand BT's case on Dormio when you agree with his vote?".
I'm only saying this because I don't think anyone else has pointed it out, but where did Rawr say that he agreed with BT's vote?
Surely you're not going to tell me, Shadoweh, that by voting for me Rawr was agreeing with BT's opinion. Because, you know, different people can vote the same thing for different reasons.

You accuse me of machiavellian intent denied by my vote-switch. I think it's fair to ask someone why they suspect someone for making a case on the person they're voting. His answer was effectively what you're saying, which I took as good enough.

You post gives me the impression you're following the new wave. I supose it's a more interesting wagon then whatever you were on before. I don't agree with anything you've said though.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I forgot about the vote on you. That's the only one that doesn't count.

Okay.

Rawr is a newbie and would be easy to lynch if I felt inclined to push it.

Do you really believe that?

Are you implying Dan was somehow not a wagon? My point stands.

Your point that, what? You only vote people that you think are easy to lynch? :V

Quote waring with you was stupid and we should have stopped ten posts before we did. Also note it was town vs town and I got lynched for it. Why would I want to repeat that?

My only point there is why did you need to feel the add that little snippet there. I mean, you've accused Pesco of being passive aggressive, but that statement you made right there about the whole quote box thing was rather passive aggressive too, was it not?

machiavellian

What the hell does this word mean?

[Shadoweh]

Of course I do. Rawr was doing some flaily things that looked suspicious. The fact that he isn't being pushed makes me more suspicious then his own actions. You were the one arguing I was voting for nothing. My votes are placed where I think suspicion should pick up. Uhm, I'm not sure what you mean about the quotebox thing. Toning down the snark is why I went to bed before posting the first time. I find it aggrivating that the response to me actually sitting down, reading the thread and setting out reads is to be voted for having none. It makes me wonder why I'm not playing Kingdom of Loathing or sleeping instead.

Mach?i?a?vel?li?an
   /ˌm?kiəˈvɛliən/ Show Spelled[mak-ee-uh-vel-ee-uhn] Show IPA
adjective
3: characterized by subtle or unscrupulous cunning, deception, expediency, or dishonesty: He resorted to Machiavellian tactics in order to get ahead.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Well, just like how you have your opinion, I have mine. And that's what I think of how you dealt with your vote on Rawr.

As for the quotebox thing, I dunno. Just seemed a bit hypocratic, ya know?

[Dr Rawr]

Honestly i dont like you

You leave your vote on me at the start as an excuse to get all of us posting. Then still decide to not post any form of scum hunting or any cases and then use the actiondan bandwagon. You switch over to the imaginary serala wagon once people get on how your vote was quick, even though you were so ready to lynch actiondan. Then you decide to bring up affinity looking scummy and how you could easily get me lynched. If that doesnt sound desperate idk what is then.

##Unvote
##Vote: Shadoweh

[Schezo]

Voting:
Huh What (1): Bardiche
Serela (3): ActionDan, Huh What, Shadoweh
ActionDan (3): PX, Serela, Trickysticks 
Dormio (2): BT, Affinity
Shadoweh (4): Pesco, Conq, Dormio, nurse rawr (L-3)

Not Voting: Nobody

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Shadoweh is at L-3

Deadline for day 1 is ~37 hours. (watch timer here)

If a replacement cannot be found for ActionDan, he will be modkilled at the end of Night 1.

[Affinity]

What this day one seems to be degrading into:

1. Find a person who seems to be 'active lurking', and vote him for exactly that.
2. Watch everyone form a bandwagon on him and wait for him to clarify things.
3. If clarification is satisfactory, form a bandwagon on one of the last three who jumped onto the previous bandwagon, accusing him or her of 'not scumhunting' and 'parroting reasons'
4. Go back to 2 until deadline.

Really, everyone might as well be voting rawr and Conq right now for 'parroting' or 'not scumhunting' and stuff like that.  This is utterly ridiculous.

[Dr Rawr]

Also hax dormio is voting 2 people

Schezo: thank you

[Affinity]

Exasperation aside, while I agree that Shadoweh was derpy regarding a few things (e.g rawr's vote on Dormio), I don't agree with the Shadoweh case in general, or the speed in which has been built up.  Some questions:

1) pesco, what is wrong with Shadoweh voting for 'a barely-formed' Serela wagon given that the reason for that here is every bit as decent as the former case on Dan? Is being the second to vote suddenly scummy? 
2) Rawr, if you believe that Shadoweh is desperate, why is she desperate scum instead of desperate town?  Haven't you 'used' the ActionDan wagon yourself too?
3) Dormio, why is Shadoweh suddenly scummier than the Conq case you have been pushing for so long?  How are things like 'huhwhat being town' indicative of Shadoweh being scum?

I'm not asking these questions out of a willingness to defend her, but rather, I think people are jumping onto the wagon for foul reasons.  Given that what had happened before Shadoweh's and Serela's vote on Dan was nothing but a wild goose chase, I don't really have much of an issue with them missing early Day One; voluntarily or involuntarily.  I also feel that both of them chose to vote Dan after consideration after other cases, so I'm not willing to lynch either of them today.  I'm more interested in people like Dormio and rawr who seem to agree sheepishly to every major wagon without much concern for what they were pursuing previously, and so my vote remains on Dormio for these reasons.

[Pesco]

As for voteparking, no, I believe Serela has a decent chance of being lynched today. I've not voted for anyone I think is a lost cause.

You said

As for Dan, I changed my mind. This is how I collect reads. I accuse and see how the interactions go. Something in his tone was different in his second post that made me regret my wishes to see him dead. Now I'm going to push Serela until either he's lynched or he does the same.

Did you want him to redeem himself in some way then? Because you'd only give that chance to people you're prodding. Not so if you honestly wanted them lynched for being scum. Your scumlynching intent is spineless. And I don't think you should do natural childbirth because you clearly don't push.

Of course I do. Rawr was doing some flaily things that looked suspicious. The fact that he isn't being pushed makes me more suspicious then his own actions. You were the one arguing I was voting for nothing. My votes are placed where I think suspicion should pick up.

The bolded part is so wrong that it reads as 'Imma fling whatever sticks and roll with that'. Like how you try and paint Rawr scummy in the same post. He's made a vote and explained why he voted that way. He isn't doing something strange that warrants being pushed, so where would he be flailing outside of 'everyone-looks-like-scum, dunno-who-to-vote'?

1) pesco, what is wrong with Shadoweh voting for 'a barely-formed' Serela wagon given that the reason for that here is every bit as decent as the former case on Dan? Is being the second to vote suddenly scummy? 

The link is HW's case on Serela, not Shadoweh's. See what she says in her voteswitch post.

I don't need more then 'I think you're creepy in a scummy way' to vote you.I didn't really read the thread in detail before everyone posted.

Pre-supposition that someone is scum and voting them with the hope that it sticks. Then ignoring the better part of all the discussion that the game has garnered. I pointed it out earlier when I quoted her vote that she shows no interest in catching scum and lynching them. She just wants a lynch, any lynch will do. That's not good enough for me, I want a scum lynch.

Given that what had happened before Shadoweh's and Serela's vote on Dan was nothing but a wild goose chase, I don't really have much of an issue with them missing early Day One; voluntarily or involuntarily.

There's missing early Day 1 by not participating in it and there's missing early Day 1 by disregarding it. Shadoweh has gone for the latter. We're still on Day 1 and the hours that have elapsed are what we will work with to find scum.

[Dr Rawr]

no i actually didnt hop the actiondan wagon. i would think its desperate scum because i dont think someone who is town would go around saying "i could easily lynch xxx even though i mention that the case is pretty weak". Im really all for lynching shadoweh actiondan or dormio, but shadoweh caught my attention the most when she switched her "i want dan lynched" to "I think serela will be lynched" and then bringing up how easily she could get me lynched.

Dont get me wrong I still think dormio could be scum but i think shadoweh shows it more now.

[Pesco]

Can you people stop posting like you're tsun!

:V

[BT]

I'll also note that I think that BT's case on me is bs.

Kay, not going to let this pass. It was more of a prod than anything else and I think I made that pretty clear. Instead of replying to my post adequately, you dismiss it outright as a "bad case" and pretend it doesn't exist. I'm pretty sure you proceed to never mention me again, too. Nice. Explanation?

I dont understand because he mentions how weak his case is but still votes for him.

I said that his initial, defensive behavior would make a weak case. My entire post after that serves to explain why it's more than that. Have you read it at all?

I want BT to expand on his Dormio case because I can't parse it. Dormio is scummy because he's trying to pursue people who aren't answering his questions?

Overdefensive. Pursuing the (single) same damn thing for bad reasons when it's taking the place of (any) new content, which is terribly counterproductive for town and looks really bad. Case was mainly a prod to make him be more productive.

Enough about that, though.

The hostility towards Tricky is making me squirm. Self-discrediting and hesitation is scummy? Perhaps, but it seems fine for a newbie in my eyes. I acted the exact same way in my first game here and I sure wasn't scum. I realize I'm using someone else's meta here (or, dare I say it, logic) but I'm not willing to treat this as a basis for lynch. ...However, a shoddy vote on ActionDan based off of mediocre reasons (that have been raised already, no less) might be. He almost sounded like he was ready to end the day with that lynch, and I have no way to explain this but a confidence boost given by the people who were already on that wagon. I don't want to see any of this in the future.

Dormio's finally moved on and started giving a bigger picture. Guess my vote served its purpose. ##Unvote. I still want your opinion on other peeps at the given moment, though, especially on Conq who you kind of forgot about.

Thoughts on the Shadoweh wagon: can't say I'm convinced. Shadoweh vs Pesco exchange is looking bad for her but this is definitely not the first time. Accusations of lack of scumhunting are really not that hard to build if you dig deep enough, which is what is bothering me here: people are focusing on single wagons way too early. Of course, I say this partially because I'm not sold yet, as I would have no reason to say this were I confident in scum!Shadoweh. Shadoweh's play is shaky, to be sure, but not something I'd want to bank a lynch on.

Note that I'm not directly opposing the wagon, but opposing the circumstances. Votes on the wagon so far are: Pesco, Conq, Dormio, nurse rawr. Pesco's been critical at Shadoweh from the beginning. Conq's vote change went pretty much unexplained. Dormio "suddenly re-reads Shadoweh to find that he had the reasons to lynch her all along". Rawr's is one big  , seriously. I'm far from happy with the current wagon.

And... why can't I point my finger at anyone? It's almost like people stopped being productive. Oh wait, this is exactly what happened. I'm drawing a blank from the early exchanges so without new opinions from Bard/PX/Conq/HW I'm basically in the dark.

Or I just need to do some major re-reading. But I barely have the time for that. :V

I've never been good at Day 1.

Duffman begs to differ.

[Pesco]

Empty unvotes suck at this stage of the day. Who is scum and why?

[BT]

I don't know dammit

I can't really agree that my unvote is "empty" because I expressed my opinion on the people at large. And by that, I mean Shadoweh. (This is pretty much what I was complaining about in that post.)

Too many people are null reads. I'm doing my best to change this but at the moment I really don't have an answer for you :X

[PX]

Hi guys I'm awake and what did I miss?

Huh What, are you more convinced of Shadoweh scum or Serela scum?

Shadoweh, you seem firm on Pesco = Not Town = Scum. Care to elaborate on why? And why your vote is on Serela?

Uhhh Dormio, do you have anything to say about anyone else?

While the Shadoweh case isn't that bad... it just feels wrong. Suddenly everyone decides to ditch everything else on the game and decided to just gang up on her. It just feels unnatural, and I think there's some scum intent in there.

Oh right, and ActionDan is no longer a thing....
##Unvote