Labyrinth of Touhou 9F

[Validon98]

I mean, my team was extremely defense oriented (which is ideal IMO).

Uh... my team isn't besides the usual tanks. I mean, I have started putting a lot of level up bonuses into stuff like Reimu's MND and everything... but the only ones who can survive a Start of Heavily Demise are Meiling and Tenshi. Everyone else sort of just dies.
EDIT: Just tried again, and Reimu can BARELY survive one. Still not everyone, though.

[Zil]

Trying to remember my team, I think it was:

MND Reimu
MND Yukari
MAG Alice
MND Kaguya
MND Ran (probably)
MAG Patchy
DEF Meiling
DEF Remilia
DEF Sakuya
SPD Cirno
ATK Nitori
ATK(?) Suwako (probably)

I think my first move in every boss fight was double defense buffs with Reimu and Yukari.

Not to say that's the "best" team or anything. Pretty sure it's what I had though. At some point I ditched Ran or someone for Mokou out of sheer waifuism but I think it was after I beat the game.

[Ghaleon]

Use defense buffs from reimu, after you do, it should be like his weakest move (that's the one I was talkinga bout earlier which pawns your face if he casts it right at the start, but once you got def buffs it's weak)... For example, patchy should take no damage from it after a def buff or two.

[Serela]

First form is definitely scariest by a long shot. You make it through that one and suddenly he's far less scary. Well, and the final, I guess.

Also Minoriko is fabulous assuming she's in a mind build. -So tanky-. She only falls off in Plus Disk because Reimu has the sp to spam her skills indiscriminately and her heal should sufficiently heal almost anyone at that point.

[Validon98]

Okay, I grinded up a bit (Reimu is at 98, I think?), and I started using Yukari as well. Yeah, Start of Heavenly Demise does nothing now. Of course, it gets REALLY annoying when he silences people and paralyzes them in his Cold and Wind forms respectively... *sigh* Time to reorganize my equipment again.

[SirChaotick]

Start of Heavenly Demise does nothing

Start of Heavenly demise always did 0

Use defense buffs from reimu, after you do, it should be like his weakest move

How?! How, I ask of you, HOW!!!
I am Reimu level 100, I refuse to grind any higher, and that thing tramples me every single time! Sure, when I've got everyone's defences buffed with like 80% it's completely neutered, but that's not exactly a luxury I can afford when I also have healing to do, let alone actually lay a hit on the guy!

I guess I'll go and list my team:
-Reimu (duh)
-Meiling (re-duh)
-Nitori (triple duh)
-Remilia (comparatively fast and durable)
-Suika (can take a hit, wind nuke)
-Kaguya (spirit nuke, versatile)
-Minoriko (amazing healing, people tell me she's a good mind tank)
-Suwako (nature nuke, also only cold attack worth the trouble)
-Komachi (aggressive tank)
-Patchouli (all of the elements)
-Ran (pretty beefy, pretty much my strongest attacker)
-Iku (sweet buff for Ran, people tell me she's a good mind tank, is a good mind tank)

Not sure how to improve on this - maybe switch Suika in for Yukari or something, but that's about all I can think of. Enlighten me, MotK, and forgive me, for I know not what I do.

[I have no name]

My party was Meiling-Remilia-Youmu-Reimu opening party (Youmu can be a tanky nuke), with Patchy, Marisa, Suika, Komachi, Yukari, Ran, Kaguya and Sanae in reserve.  My strategy for the start was Curse of Tepes+defense buff+Slash of Eternity, and then attackattackattacksurvive.  That's really all there is to the fight, there's billion teams that can work really well, you just have to find what ends up working for you.

I would like to note that in my team though I had 8 characters capable of taking hits unbuffed-only Patchy, Marisa, Kaguya and Sanae would insta-die.

I am seriously looking forward to this in my draft run.

[Zil]

Not sure how to improve on this - maybe switch Suika in for Yukari or something, but that's about all I can think of. Enlighten me, MotK, and forgive me, for I know not what I do.

I think not using Yukari is questionable in general, but yeah, you should probably add her for this fight at least. Keep your defense boosted over 50% at all times. Also, I think if you've buffed someone's speed to 100% and throw them into the back, they recover their energy super fast, so you can afford to keep using the buffs. Maybe. I always thought Sakuya was great but people here seem to hate her so maybe I'm wrong about that.

I'm not really sure what the appeal of Suika is supposed to be. Any dedicated damage dealer is playing second fiddle to Nitori, and as far as I'm aware she brings no special effects to the table.

But really just use Yukari. There's no reason to pass up that defense buff and "take two turns in a row" thing.

[SirChaotick]

I'm not really sure what the appeal of Suika is supposed to be. Any dedicated damage dealer is playing second fiddle to Nitori, and as far as I'm aware she brings no special effects to the table.

But really just use Yukari. There's no reason to pass up that defense buff and "take two turns in a row" thing.

Well, she doubles as a pretty good 2nd slot.
Still, I will switch her out for Yukari and see if that works better.

[Ghaleon]

How?! How, I ask of you, HOW!!!
I am Reimu level 100, I refuse to grind any higher, and that thing tramples me every single time! Sure, when I've got everyone's defences buffed with like 80% it's completely neutered, but that's not exactly a luxury I can afford when I also have healing to do, let alone actually lay a hit on the guy!

Eh, I guess I remember based on my typical def builds.
I DID have a recording of myself doing the fight on my one run I was super aggressive party (just to experiment with, I did a game like that). You can see me do cootie-suke at reimu 92 in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY2wHrgnFpw

Even though I have aggressive specs on everyone, start of heavenly demise is still not THAT nasty a spell after the defense buffs roll in (as you can see in my playthru I like defense buffs lol, even with my offensive builds, I'm still pretty defense-buff obsessed).

[SirChaotick]

Eh, I guess I remember based on my typical def builds.
I DID have a recording of myself doing the fight on my one run I was super aggressive party (just to experiment with, I did a game like that). You can see me do cootie-suke at reimu 92 in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FY2wHrgnFpw

Even though I have aggressive specs on everyone, start of heavenly demise is still not THAT nasty a spell after the defense buffs roll in (as you can see in my playthru I like defense buffs lol, even with my offensive builds, I'm still pretty defense-buff obsessed).

I don't get it. I really don't get it. I've tried several times with almost literally that party, that level, and got my ass handed to me. And it goes so smoothly. So smoothly. Why aren't they dying. WHY AREN'T THEY DYING. THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE DYING. OUT OF SP. PARALYZED. GRAARGH.

Guess what, though, I have a file with Reimu level 91, so I can set back my overleveling somewhat. I'll go at it at that level and see if he's really that easy.

edit: HE ISN'T
SOMEONE KILL ME PLEASE

[Ghaleon]

Well are your skillpoints invested in defense as much? I make a point of showing all my stats at the start of the vid.
My super offensive builds was really just levelup bonuses all goong into offense (except for china, raymoo, and kaggy cuz i think kaggy's bowl move is besteresterest), but i normally keep my skillpoints between attack and defense pretty even (i measure based on skp till next upgrade, not the actual skill levels). Naturally i dont blow much skp on patchy's defense, yuugi's mnd, etc, but i dont neglect them either.

[SirChaotick]

Well are your skillpoints invested in defense as much? I make a point of showing all my stats at the start of the vid.
My super offensive builds was really just levelup bonuses all goong into offense (except for china, raymoo, and kaggy cuz i think kaggy's bowl move is besteresterest), but i normally keep my skillpoints between attack and defense pretty even (i measure based on skp till next upgrade, not the actual skill levels). Naturally i dont blow much skp on patchy's defense, yuugi's mnd, etc, but i dont neglect them either.

Your stats seem about the same, except for a couple. Your Remilia and Meiling seem to be way better than mine on all categories somehow. The Ran's more defence-oriented than mine, my Suwako has balanced ATK and MAG and your Kaguya is obviously more geared towards mind. Still, it isn't really significant.
As for skillpoints... yep, sounds about right. I upgrade Patchy's defence as well from time to time, as well as other pretty much useless categories on other characters, when they've become obscenely cheap.
Then again a lot depends on dick moves I guess. Ran getting Rasetsu Fisted and dieing right out of the gate, stuff like that.
I'll just have to persevere.

[Pesco]

Final area of difference is what your team's equipped with. The big items available to you are either from chests (which everyone has) or drops (you won't have if you weren't lucky). Most offensive gear can be patched up via normal drops. So do you have all the defensive drops and who are they on?

[Starxsword]

Your stats seem about the same, except for a couple. Your Remilia and Meiling seem to be way better than mine on all categories somehow. The Ran's more defence-oriented than mine, my Suwako has balanced ATK and MAG and your Kaguya is obviously more geared towards mind. Still, it isn't really significant.

There has got to be a difference if you are taking damage and he is not. As far as I can tell, Start of Heavenly Demise does no damage most of the time. For his non-elemental form, the scariest thing is Reiatsu Fist, then I think Mystic Form might be kind of scary, but I don't remember.

[SirChaotick]

There has got to be a difference if you are taking damage and he is not. As far as I can tell, Start of Heavenly Demise does no damage most of the time. For his non-elemental form, the scariest thing is Reiatsu Fist, then I think Mystic Form might be kind of scary, but I don't remember.

I know there has to be and I can't find it! Either that or I'm just unlucky and get suckerpunched when my defences are down. Which accounts for like 80% of my fails.

Final area of difference is what your team's equipped with. The big items available to you are either from chests (which everyone has) or drops (you won't have if you weren't lucky). Most offensive gear can be patched up via normal drops. So do you have all the defensive drops and who are they on?

I am positive I have all the chests, at the very least. Most of the good stuff is on Meiling (Pailsen Files, Shuttle Body, Power Dragon Scalemail) because she's the best at self-sustainability. The rest doesn't really have a lot of dedicated defence items since I simply don't have enough of them.
You just gave me an idea, though - maybe there's some good stuff left on some of the characters I'm not using. I'll go and see.

Still... after all number-crunching, I think the thing I need most is a good bit of luck. I'll just suck it up and ram into him over and over.

[Raikaria]

I agree that due to the damage race nature of this battle at times, and the use of non-elemental attacks, Remilia is one of the better tanks to be using here.

I guess another option if putting up a copy of your save file, so someone else can try on it, and tell you their opinion better.

Of course you could just be unlucky.

[Serela]

For who asked, the application of Suika is that she has a SPD debuff, decent MND for taking a hit, and most importantly in that she self-buffs her own ATK. (The spd debuff is resistable)

However, since her damage isn't as good as just having Iku buff a better attacker, she's not usually a best choice in practice.

[Validon98]

However, since her damage isn't as good as just having Iku buff a better attacker, she's not usually a best choice in practice.

I'll have to remember that myself. I guess in my case I can throw either Aya or Sakuya in there instead of Suika for speed buffs. I haven't built Sakuya as a tank (or Remilia, for that matter), which means that Sakuya could only be out there for about five seconds before being wasted by Rinnosuke. Fun times.

[Serela]

Aya isn't very good for speed buffing IMO. She's not good until she serves as Chen 2.0 in Plus Disk with her higher MP pool to spam Peerless Wind God with Ikubuffs.

I'd keep Suika until after Rinno, as you already have her in your party, since her WND nuke can help waste his ntr form.

[Raikaria]

Aya isn't very good for speed buffing IMO. She's not good until she serves as Chen 2.0 in Plus Disk with her higher MP pool to spam Peerless Wind God with Ikubuffs.

I'd keep Suika until after Rinno, as you already have her in your party, since her WND nuke can help waste his ntr form.

Does that make Mytsia Chen 3.0?

[Serela]

I have no idea why people keep comparing Chen to Mystia when

they don't do the same fucking thing at all

Mystia is a great character, and not a bad idea at all to replace Chen with because Chen falls off some in postgame (Not that she's -bad- to keep using), but they really don't have similar uses. Unless you mean using Chen's row attack in randoms regularly? But who cares, the point is boss battles, where Chen's point is self-buff and high speed combined with super low delay Idaten. Ill-Starred Fall has nice delay but it's nowhere near good enough to use her like Chen, who can come in, buff herself up, hit the boss three times, and switch herself out before the boss moves.

Aya is Chen 2.0 because her SPD self-buff on Peerless Wind God allows her, even in postgame's speed proration, to achieve Chen-tier rape speed... and while she does need Iku buffing her, the resulting damage is very high, even worth using against WND-resistant bosses. Which is good because Plus likes those for some goddamn reason @_@ Which also hurts Maribel, whom also really could use not being hurt like that, but oh well.

I used Aya all the way through Winner (starting early in postgame after she had SP, definitely not in maingame, ew) to great effect. When Nitori -exists-, being able to say "to great effect" is pretty significant.

[Ghaleon]

Im starting to get the shakes from lack of new taohow laby 2 news qq.

[Raikaria]

I used Aya all the way through Winner (starting early in postgame after she had SP, definitely not in maingame, ew) to great effect. When Nitori -exists-, being able to say "to great effect" is pretty significant.

One stays in and attacks, the other has to swap out every time. One's sustained DPS the other is more burst. They're not really that compareable.

[Also so much resists fire too.]

[Serela]

Fire? Megawatt isn't fire, it's non-elemental.

Aya does have some degree of durability, but it's not a good idea to leave her out to take hits. Her MND is pretty low and her HP isn't good either, a good magic attack can wipe her out if you haven't pumped her affinities yet. In maingame, Chen can tend to take one hit too, anyway (which doesn't happen in Plus until affinity pumping) so it's about the same. She does have enough durability you can risk leaving her out every now and then for the good reward, but that's a small bonus that just contributes further to being 2.0.

Nitori can take a magic hit about as well as Aya anyway :V Oh, but right, her delay is too high to bother.

tl;dr both good

[Raikaria]

Odd. I recall it be...

Oh wait isn't the boss version Fire? I recall stacking Fire resistance and reducing the damage significantly and it having red text. Idk, been a while since I've faced Nitori, and even longer since I've -used- Nitori.

[Ghaleon]

Ueah boss version is fire. I cant remember but i think the description was one of the innacurate ones that stat fire too when it was not. Dunno if that was fixed or not.

[Validon98]

The description for the skill wasn't changed, but it's non-elemental. Then again, the ACC stuff wasn't taken out even after EVA broke, so I guess it used to be Fire elemental as a usable skill.

[RegalStar]

Boss Megawatt is FIR while player Megawatt is non. And yes, it used to be FIR but was changed to non-elemental a long, long time ago (something like v1.03).

[Validon98]

Well, I finally beat Rinnosuke at Reimu 101. Yes, I overgrinded. Even then, the fight was difficult, but I managed to not lose any of my nukers until the final phase. Even though he got off World Shaking Military Rule, I still got him. That's over, at the very least. Meanwhile, I've started the process of F20 grinding so that I can overgrind for the entire rest of the main game. I love how the experience and skill point rates are WAY higher than on F18. Even though I still have to use World Shaking Military Rule + Starbow Break + Hourai Barrage + Yukari's Spiriting Away + Hourai Barrage + Scarlet Gold Sword (if Kaguya didn't kill the enemy by then) + Lavaetein, it's still a lot better than F18's grinding. There's only two groups that I've seen that I can't kill reliably, but I'll be able to kill them soon enough (I'm already at Reimu 106).
EDIT: At Reimu 118. I still haven't killed the four F19 bosses at all. Bliss, thy name is overgrinding. :3
Also, at one point, Flandre had 6666 HP. I found that funny. ^^;