Labyrinth of Touhou 9F

[Nerv-Faktor]

Is there something I'm missing here or is this just a luckfest?

Iirc, both Scarlet Gold Sword and Start of Heavenly Demise are composite attacks, so characters with both high DEF and MND shouldn't take much damage at all after a defensive buff. Always have a character like Tenshi, Meiling or Remilia in front, Remilia should be able to tank it even if she was built for ATK. Characters with one absurdly high defensive stat, like Patchouli with her astronomical MND, should also survive those attacks after getting a buff from Reimu or Yukari.
According to the wiki you need around 15.000 combined defenses to take 0 damage from Start of Heavenly Demise. That probably sounds high at first, but you should be able to keep a +50% defensive buff on Tenshi active without much trouble, reducing the combined DEF+MND requirement to ~10.000. Remilia shouldn't have trouble to keep herself close to 100% defensive buffs with her selfbuff, reducing the required DEF+MND even further.
You probably won't reach those combined values with Meiling, but it's not like you need to take 0 damage from it, just reduce it as much as possible.
Adjust your equipment! Items that boost both DEF and MND ,like the Robe of Twilight, are very useful here.
If you can you should also switch empty slots in before he gets a turn, in case you already lost characters in the battle.

I like to play an offensive strategy against Rinnosuke, then take a bit of time to buff up when he enters one of his weaker elemental forms (iirc the fire form is pretty harmless), and then just try to blast through his forms as fast as possible.  Try to have someone with non elemental attacks buffed up for his final form, it's probably the most dangerous one. If he buffs himself with WSMR in this phase and then uses Start of Heavenly Demise it'll probably be over for you, so destroy the final form as soon as possible. Nitori is, as always, probably the best to end it as fast as possible here, since her Megawatt Linear Gun is just broken.

[Serela]

Yeah, figured ThLaby2 Rinno's stats were gonna be like that. Maxing any of his High Boosts set his stats up at 100~ish for the defenses (at lv7 scale) and like 120~130 for offense stats. Obviously the offense stats wouldn't be terribly useful unless (until?) he gets his item back, but at least one of them might power up his heal move, and 65% stronger heal from boost max sounds nice.

also general rumia fanboyism etc

[Ghaleon]

Im hoping we get some hatate in thlaby2, im a total sucker for long twintails and shes still not in any fangame i e played qq. I wonder what kinda character people would see her as statistic-wise.

[qazmlpok]

Another update posted to his blog. It has a screenshot of Kogasa and a floor map, as well as a huge block of text that looks like bug fixes he's made since posting the pre-alpha.

One of them is "I was a bit faster movement speed dungeon.", for those that complained of Reimu's movement speed.

Some others;
If you hit the weak point of the enemy, the damage has to be represented in red.
Even when changing formations, capacity changes and abnormalities in a state of the selected character is now visible again. (Someone had mentioned that you can't see buffs until the character's turn; that's fixed now)
Background color and the border of the conversation, right side is bright, the characters were so hard to read, I dropped the brightness on the right side.
Rumia trick performance bug (I'm guessing Rumia actually works now)

and finally,
Next came to play until about 3F 
May issue in the trial version also snap decision.

Im hoping we get some hatate in thlaby2, im a total sucker for long twintails and shes still not in any fangame i e played qq. I wonder what kinda character people would see her as statistic-wise.

Sorry; she wasn't in the list of characters I dumped. I don't think it's very likely that more will be added.

[Ikari]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH YESSSSSSSSSSSSS.

Sorry, but movement speed and map pointers were the two things this game lacked horribly. My joy knows no bound(aries).

To be honest, Kogasa? Keine? Rumia? Hell yeah, awesome character roster so far. It's nice to see "weaker" characters put in the game, kinda like the first LoT did. Anyway, this is looking really good. I can't wait for it to come out.

[Ghaleon]

Nouuuuu, hatate ='(.
I thought that character dump was just a list of those done so far not a planned list on release =(.
Kogasa is cool yes, and yeah id love to see some of the less game implimented characters too like hina, parsee, spider girl (i can never remember her name), etc. i left out the ones laby1 had already name dump included or not.

[qazmlpok]

Nouuuuu, hatate ='(.
I thought that character dump was just a list of those done so far not a planned list on release =(.
Kogasa is cool yes, and yeah id love to see some of the less game implimented characters too like hina, parsee, spider girl (i can never remember her name), etc. i left out the ones laby1 had already name dump included or not.

Well, I'm honestly not entirely sure what that name dump is. It's just a list of character image files I took from the archive. Some of the characters have <Name>_L, _S, and _SS images, while others are just _L. I assume that this means that some of the characters are just intended to be used for story purposes, but Akyuu is actually one of the girls with an _S portrait, which you should only see in battle. I guess Akyuu could appear in combat, but it seems kinda odd for her to show up and not, say, Reisen.

Again, this is just from what I took from the archive. I can't guarantee that he won't add on to it, but he has a ton of characters in there already that are just placeholders, so it would be strange for him to add more.

also, Yamame.

[Rukoto]

-Allows Rumia to ignore defenses entirely against enemies with extremely high defenses

I wonder what 'extremely high defenses' is going to translate into. Would this be relative to her attacking stats? Her level?

Nice to hear about some bug fixes as well. One thing that might not have been mentioned that was bothering me was the direction Reimu moves with each arrow key in relation to the direction she faces. If I recall correctly, she's facing down and to the right of the map onscreen, but pressing the down key moves her down and to the left. It'd be nice the direction she faces was in sync with how she moves.

[Raikaria]

good to see that Team Baka runs are a reality.  All her unique skills cost 5 and the max lv on all of them is 2 so I'm guessing that's incomplete.

They were in NG+ of LoT2. So far we only know Rumia is in, and I guess you can probobly count Kogasa as Team ⑨ since she's pretty goofy and childish as well, but we don't know about Wriggle, Mysti and Cirno yet. [Although the odds that Cirno is NOT in are slim to none]

To be honest, Kogasa? Keine? Rumia? Hell yeah, awesome character roster so far. It's nice to see "weaker" characters put in the game, kinda like the first LoT did. Anyway, this is looking really good. I can't wait for it to come out.

Wasn't aware that Kogasa and Keine were considered 'weaker' characters when both are Extra Stage Midbosses. Especially Keine, who technically can erase someone from existence.

[Pesco]

Game stage placement means nothing about power levels. As do canon characterisation power level discussions meaning nothing about power levels. If we're talking power levels in LoT2, that's fine. Any other power level discussion gets nuked by site rules.

[Ghaleon]

Game stage placement means nothing about power levels. As do canon characterisation power level discussions meaning nothing about power levels. If we're talking power levels in LoT2, that's fine. Any other power level discussion gets nuked by site rules.

Really? I dont remember that being a rule, not that i mind cuz those debates are dum-buh. Regardless though, some characters have a really strong presence in fangames (like china and cirno), while others not somuch (minoruke, wriggle, etc). Its really cool how Lot1 included so many characters you generally dont see as playable in other fangames =).

[Nerv-Faktor]

when both are Extra Stage Midbosses

I think it's almost universally agreed upon that stage placement doesn't mean anything, like Pesco already said. I mean, Yuyuko is both a stage 6 and stage 1 boss. Yuugi is a stage 3 boss and certainly not weak at all.


But back on topic:
So Rumia seems to have the same kit as in LoT1?
What about Marisa, Reimu and Youmu?

Are the returning characters almost the same as they were in LoT1 or is Rumia an exception and the other ones got redesigned?
Also, is EVA already implemented and working in the demo?

[Serela]

Marisa and Reimu's skills  (and others) are already covered in-depth a few pages back in the thread, as well as their passive abilities. (They're mostly the same as ThLaby1 with some small differences)

this is the post (Rumia and Kogasa, as well as Youmu's passives, are later in the thread) http://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,13990.msg954889.html#msg954889

Raikaria:They're in, because Rumia has a passive ability whose description says it activates when they're in the party.

[Fishin]

All the returning characters except Keine are almost identical to their labyrinth 1 selves (Rinnosuke is not Mannosuke so he doesn't count).  The max number of spells seems to have gone down from five to four but I don't mind, I can't think of a single character in the first game that had 5 spells that I used all of regularly.  Changes to the demo look good, aside from what was already mentioned, bloom effect is reduced and apparently more controllable, options actually save instead of resetting after you close the game, and you can skip that annoying stage name that pops up for a couple seconds whenever you enter the dungeon.  Also I love different font color upon hitting a weakness (it was awesome when it glowed blue in DoD).

Speaking of returning characters, the ones from the list posted earlier (which doesn't guarantee them a spot in the game) that weren't in the first game are Byakuren, Hina, Kasen, Nazrin, Parsee, and Satori, plus Kogasa and Momiji.  I was hoping for Koishi and/or Nue myself but it looks like a solid lineup.

I wonder what 'extremely high defenses' is going to translate into. Would this be relative to her attacking stats? Her level?

Relative to the rest of the enemy's stats, or it's level I would assume.  It might just be those who effectively have infinity in one defensive stat like Bloody Papa, it would be interesting to see those as regular enemies.

[Ghaleon]

Iirc the floating gem things on 17f in thl1 had nearly inlenetrable magic defense

[Nerv-Faktor]

All the returning characters except Keine are almost identical to their labyrinth 1 selves (Rinnosuke is not Mannosuke so he doesn't count).

Well, I hope Remilia at least gets a new spell.
Something like a mediocre row target attack would be fine. A single target attack with better formula than Gungnir would probably be too good if she retains her high stats, but I'd really like something that makes her decent on random encounters.

[Ghaleon]

Contrary to many opinions, I find Remi to be a super amazing character in laby1. Sure she doesn't do anything unique, nor are her numbers really high. But by golly, she's like ALWAYS my mvp or 2nd mvp in like every boss fight in terms of sustained damage, and if not, she did the majority of the switch botting, while tanking...She's pretty much the only fast switcher in the game that can take a 2nd slot hit, or 2, or 3, or 4. A new spell? Well I wouldn't complain, but I'd rather her keep her previous ownage in her way than get a new spell and lose anything =)

Laby2 is totally hijacking dis thread =P

[Nerv-Faktor]

Contrary to many opinions, I find Remi to be a super amazing character in laby1. Sure she doesn't do anything unique, nor are her numbers really high. But by golly, she's like ALWAYS my mvp or 2nd mvp in like every boss fight in terms of sustained damage, and if not, she did the majority of the switch botting, while tanking...She's pretty much the only fast switcher in the game that can take a 2nd slot hit, or 2, or 3, or 4. A new spell? Well I wouldn't complain, but I'd rather her keep her previous ownage in her way than get a new spell and lose anything =)

Laby2 is totally hijacking dis thread =P

I agree, Remilia is a great character for bossfights. Curse of Vlad Tepes is insane on her, she has some of the highest (maybe even the highest?) overall stats in the game and Curse is spammable and cheap.
But on random encounters she's pretty much only useful for sniping one of the faster enemies before it gets its turn, she's also the only character with just 2 spells.

[I have no name]

Funnily enough Withhelde and I were talking a bit and for a speedrun Remilia's tanky damaging/switching isn't as good as Sakuya/Ran's tanky buffing.

I figure I should link the thread I made on SDA for this game.  I'm totally serious about this segmented run, put 11 tries into the first segment last night (it's hard to spam tries at because it's half text mashing...)

[Ghaleon]

Yeah i cant say i try to challenge myself via speed. Just by no grinding (or grindinf as little as possible for maribel/30f). Bu while i love ran in this game, and rhink she makes a super important character... I just never was able to make her tanky enough to survive slot two for very long like i could remi (at my lower level requirement). I mean she COULD, especially with healing support, but itd be pretty nerve wracking for fights with powerful row attack physicals like baal avatar, or yugu's flying swallow whatever. Plus iirc there are a couple bosses who can ratsetsu fist slot 2, not just1, but maybe my memory fails me and im just mistaking it for steel slashers, triple slashes, utsuho's op dives.

[Serela]

If you build Ran with DEF levelups, she's second slot material for sure.

[I have no name]

I'm only going through Maribel in the speedrun anyway so Baal Avatar, swallow thing and Utsuho are non-issues :V
Rinnosuke would be the biggest pain for that strategy but he's a pain no matter what.  I can just manipulate no Rasetsu Fists in the first phase anyway.

[Nerv-Faktor]

Quoting your post on SDA:

Need to decide how to spend levelups though.
Reimu-MAG
Marisa-MAG
Remilia-ATK?
Sakuya-DEF
Patchy-MAG
That's what I think so far.

Remilia should definitely be built for ATK. Even with no level up points spent in DEF at all, she can still comfortably take slot 2 even on the plusdisk floors. If you're doing a speedrun, you should obviously aim to end battles as fast as possible, so more damage is preferable. Also Remilia's damage is far from pitiful and I don't know how Withhelde has built and used her to make her deadweight past Eientei.  Adding up the damage of all the spears Remilia throws over the course of a bossfights sometimes yields impressive numbers.
But if you aim for pure speed in bossfights, Ran will at some point probably overtake her for this purpose, as buffing every character, even the ones in the backrows, really provides a lot of damage. However, her buff costs 110 SP, so she'll run out of SP after just a few uses in the main game. Also if you're using Iku (and you should for a speedrun) your main nukers will always be buffed to near 100% anyway, so that lessens the value of Ran's buff too.
Sakuya seems like a great idea, since more turns naturally makes the battle faster too, but Lunar Clock is pretty expensive too. She'll recover the SP fast due to her speedbuffs if you switch her out, but then you need another character who can take slot 2 while she's out anyway.

Also, I'm not sure about Rinnosuke. Are you taking him just for WSMR? I don't think it's that useful in the Maribel bossfight since the first phase she barely does damage at all and gives you plenty of time to buff up while simultaneously damaging her. And Maribel is the only real boss left after recruiting him in your playthrough. Without WSMR he's just a gimped Remilia and the same things that apply to her apply to him, but he lacks the selfbuff, has terrible recovery% and has way higher SP cost on his main attack

[Ghaleon]

in a speedrun yeah I don't see why not. But def-build remi is also a very viable build otherwise....Sigh you guys are making me wanna play dis again.

[Nerv-Faktor]

in a speedrun yeah I don't see why not. But def-build remi is also a very viable build otherwise....Sigh you guys are making me wanna play dis again.

Def Remi is more of a slot 1 character for me. Her damage really falls short later if she's not built for ATK.

[Ghaleon]

I've done both, multiple times, was still respectable. It wasn't like its damage got hit by more than half due to boss defense scaling.. it actually only went up by about 30% or so.
Thing is I like playing defensively, and often make many characters have mnd or def instead of atk/mag...This is actually a good thing if you wanna tackle bosses at as low a level as possible, it just takes longer is all (though some trash is more of a pain)...

It does however make baal avatar harder though, simply cuz the increased defenses don't outweigh baal's increased attack over time =(

Edit: zomg i just thought of a great ng+ feature for taohow laby 2:
A kind of boss "score attack" mode where you can set arbitrary amounts of exp for everyone (equal), skillpoints to assign (as you see fir unless they are auto distributed to each member in 2, dunno, if so, equal), abd gold to spend (and assign prices to whatever items that may be treasure, not shop only).

Then you can face off against a boss without going thru the game, at whatever level and such you want. Then people can have "tournament"s or whatever to see who can beat whocher at the lowest levels/cash possible.

Dat'd be sooo cool... Competative turn based rpg.

[I have no name]

I'll probably link the boss fights for my speedrun here when I beat them, but for now have the first segment :V
39 tries to get this thing
I promise I would spam this thread with this stuff and keep it mostly in the SDA thread but will combine videos into probably by floor sections for easy viewing and stuff.
I know it could be a bit faster bit this was hard enough to get and my luck was only average  :ohdear:

[Fishin]

I've always built Remi for defense.  To me her main role is a self-buffing tank who also happens to have high speed so you can switch often and can also do semi-respectable chip damage if you don't need a switch when her turn comes up.  Rinnosuke is similar but actually usable in random battles since he has multi-target attacks, though he's slightly less durable/slower and his buff spell has an entirely different use.

Also when I was talking about there being a vacuum/null elemental in Labyrinth 2 a couple pages ago, it's because I was misreading 冥 as 真.  It's definitely supposed to be Dark or Nether.

[Ikari]

I've always used Remi as a first tanky character, and then as the game went on, focused on her attack. She's pretty decent; Not heavenly, as she's painfully crippling in random encounters, but actually pretty good in boss battles. Decent damage, good resistance and low delays make her a good, consistent attacker than can stay out on the field.

[Validon98]

I think I've been using my Remilia wrong, then. She's practically ALWAYS in my party, especially for randoms. >.<
Speaking of which, what characters are good for randoms? I figure Marisa, Nitori (somewhat), and Ran are, but who else?