[WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II

[Doll.S CUBE]

Here is something ApharmdB helped me make would be a new design for Nitori so that she is more true to her canon self and not be a gundam. We (As in ApharmdB only) is going to present it to the DotS dev in hopes they like it and change it (Not likely...) and I'm wondering what you all think of the changes. Here goes:

/Nitori stats/
Melee
Str: 19 + 1.8
Agi: 14 +1.3
Int (M): 27 + 2.9
Health: ?
Mana: ?
Move speed: ?
Model (Wishful thinking): On foot with a bag that has robot arms coming out of it
Aspd: ?
Atttack animation: ?
Title: Super Youkai Warhead or Aquatic Engineer

/Skills/

~Innate, Kappa "Exteeeending Aaaaarm"~

Effect: For every lvl gained, increases Nitori's attack range by 10

~First skill, Optics "Optical Camouflage"~

Effect: Turns Nitori sorta-invisible and prevents damage from one attack (Except instant kills) during it's duration
Duration: 8/9/10/11
Cool down: 30/25/20/15 sec
Mana cost: ?

~Second skill, Cucumber Missle Barrage~

Effect: Bombards a area of 300 with missles for 4 secs.
Damage: 75/100/125/150 dps for 4 secs
AOE: 300
Cast range: 600
Cool down:15 sec
Mana cost: ?

~Third skill, Water Sign "Kappa's Flash Flood"~

Effect: Launches a missile that lands after a while in a splash of water that deals 60/90/120/150 magic damage and slows for 25/30/35/40% for 4 secs and pushes heroes from the center of the splash 200 distance with a maximum distance of 280 from the center of the splash.
Damage: 60/90/120/150 magic damage
AOE: 280
Cast time: 0.75 sec
Caste range: 650
Cool down: 15 sec
Mana cost: ?

~Ult, Super Youkai Warhead~

Effect: Launches a homing missle at the target that takes sometime time to activate
Damage: 400/650/900 magic damage
AOE: 325
Move speed: 250/290/330
Unit type: Ward
Health: 400/600/800
Cast time: 1 sec
Activation time: 3 sec
Cast range: 2000
Max range: 3500
Cool down: 90 sec
Mana cost: ?

Also, ApharmdB is thinking of making Nitori like this or something for a future English DotS release. I am so happy Nevermind, just some misunderstandings on my part. Seems he will make a mock version on a map and submit it for the devs. But I'm still happy!

Also, yeah, it ain't really complete but it's only minor details... >_>

Edit: Alright, Nitori is a melee hero. Forgot to add that....

Edit2: Inspiration goes to Gyrocoptor and Tinkerer (Even though there's barely anything of him in the idea) and a thanks go ApharmdB for helping me :>

[Dr Rawr]

Whar the scaling skills

[Bog42]

Yeah

[CloverNaght]

her D skill is UP even for DotA standards

[swdn]

Thinking of a real game with the new Nitori, I'd nerf first skill and buff other three.
What about ultimate missile activation? Is it automatic, or Nitori can activate it during its flight?
Would Nitori remain melee hero (by the definition), after innate skill was maxed (basically, 20 level)?

On a side note, I've tested almost all items on actual bonuses.

• Nuclear Fusion Control Rod still has percentage mana regeneration ability (+100%) (forgot to remove, I guess).
• Lily grants +180 HP and +150 MP (instead of +310 HP and +260 MP).
• Grand Dress does not have +5% magic resistance (messed with IDs in the code).
• Bloomers have additional +5% magic resistance (reason is above).
• ZUN's Glasses grants +28% magic resistance (instead of +30%).
• Sorrowful Violin has standard magic resistance (+10%) ability (forgot to remove, I guess). Also, gives +9 str, +9 agi, +27 int (instead of +10 str, +10 agi, +29 int).
• Red Sword of Distortion grants +9 damage (not mentioned in the item description).
• Cure Star restores HP according to the formula [180 + 120 * cure_star_level] (instead of [150 + 100 * cure_star_level]).
• Cure Star level 2/3/4/5 does not display visual effects on target (not sure about this).
• Cross grants +6 agi (instead of +10 agi). Has different stats in recipe and the actual item.
• Sword of the Gods taunts enemies in 300 range (instead of 350).
• Storm Crow ability has 45 seconds cooldown (instead of 40 seconds).
• Abandoned Umbrella does not grant +11 damage bonus to the item owner.
• Judgement Rod, Pagoda, God's Onbashira, Abandoned Umbrella, Blood-stained Parasol auras have 900 AoE (instead of 600).

Also, Tokiko innate does not gain proper refund from almost half of the items.

[Dular]

In this changelog, agi now no longer have a passive stunning item, making characters like Mokou very very bad at what they do.

And now like everything gives massive resistance to counter scaling ints.  As Apharm put it, "It's League of Legends with Diablo Balancing(make everything stronger and stronger)."

[ApharmdB]

Not to mention the bazillion other items which have mistakes in their displayed costs... I made a translated document of all the items, ready to import into the stable version when the time comes to do the English translation, and if I'm to believe the math in there, well... screw math education yeah

That version of Nitori was conceived based on an idea of balance that doesn't exist in 0.977 :V

Edit: Oh dear god, I just opened up the 977a map to see the changes. The tower/rax changes were sofaking lazy and retarded!

[swdn]

Checking the code...
What I see: Pad - Reduces incoming non-hero damage by 50%
What I get:

Code: [Select]

if UnitHasItemOfTypeBJ(target,'I02V')then
    set phyduce = phyduce * (1 - 0.40)
endif
Also, bug with Grand Dress and Bloomers is not fixed. Now with more magic resistance on latter!

Code: [Select]

set resist = resist * GetUnitItemResists(v, 'I018', 0.09)
set resist = resist * GetUnitItemResists(v, 'I018', 0.14)// developers just have to replace 'I018' with 'I015' in the first line to fix that bug

ZUN's Glasses seems to be only "fixed" item from the bug list posted earlier.

Yeah, the way it should be. :colbert:

[CloverNaght]

Thinking of a real game with the new Nitori, I'd nerf first skill and buff other three.

allofmywhy.gif
the skill only blocks one attack (i assume it can block both physical and magical damage btw) and it has long cd and like i said its UP even for dota standard (DotS>DotA in terms of imbaness). Imagine how sad that skill vs someone like yamame/nazrin/rumia and everyone who has multihit spells/passives

That version of Nitori was conceived based on an idea of balance that doesn't exist in 0.977 :V

lol

[Doll.S CUBE]

allofmywhy.gif
the skill only blocks one attack (i assume it can block both physical and magical damage btw) and it has long cd and like i said its UP even for dota standard (DotS>DotA in terms of imbaness). Imagine how sad that skill vs someone like yamame/nazrin/rumia and everyone who has multihit spells/passives

Well, my first thought for that skill, I was thinking it could return 100% of the mana used if you don't hit while it was activated and 50% mana if you do get hit as well but then I thought that was a bit too much....

Edit: Actually, if you all could help as well and think up suggestion and tweaks for the skills it be neat. Also, the missle activation delay thing is it taking it's time to launch from the platform Nitori would set up for it.

[ApharmdB]

I should add that the reason why DollS mentioned that her D skill turns her "sort of invisible" is because it's not meant to be the usual kind of invisibility that Wriggle/Sunny has. It's supposed to remove her model and shadow and health-bar, turn her targeting priority to 0 and remove her from the mini-map, i.e. the only way you're going to know where she is is if she attacks something, and even then you need to figure out where to click to target her. It's a little iffy though, because although it's doable, making a skill like that relies on exploiting a (long-standing) bug in the WC3 engine.

Checking the code...
What I see: Pad - Reduces incoming non-hero damage by 50%
What I get:

Code: [Select]

if UnitHasItemOfTypeBJ(target,'I02V')then
    set phyduce = phyduce * (1 - 0.40)
endif
Also, bug with Grand Dress and Bloomers is not fixed. Now with more magic resistance on latter!

Code: [Select]

set resist = resist * GetUnitItemResists(v, 'I018', 0.09)
set resist = resist * GetUnitItemResists(v, 'I018', 0.14)// developers just have to replace 'I018' with 'I015' in the first line to fix that bug

ZUN's Glasses seems to be only "fixed" item from the bug list posted earlier.

Yeah, the way it should be. :colbert:

Mm.. will post that in the dev group. Thanks. There're so many of these typos and bugs because they didn't bother to playtest changes one by one  :wat:

[Pesco]

But in effect, even true-sight items won't reveal her then.

[ApharmdB]

Yep, it's meant to be like that so that countering the skill requires manual observation (yeah, not always easy) instead of buying true-sight items/wards. Makes it more useful for running away (hey she's a shy kappa) too. The damage-block part of course has its counters (not as easy to counter with Yamame as one might think though), but that's why the skill has 2 effects.

[ApharmdB]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgaJi85QO0qzdGJqazhsanBFY0dGZ3hjeXFqdmd1SlE&hl=en_US

For those who don't want to math, after fooling around with the above spreadsheet, one can safely say that Kaguya effectively had about 1.5 to 1.6x her listed health prior to 0.977b, and about 1.4 to 1.5x her listed health in 0.977b with the damage reduction change. Unless you have very high damage attacks, e.g. via Concordia.

Feels less Hourai Immortal-ish now and more Juggernaut-wannabe.

Edit: This also means that if Kaguya's hp regen per second is at least 0.35 x her attackers' dps (after taking into account considerations from armour/pad), it is impossible for her attackers to kill her.

[swdn]

Yuugi's Shackles Sign 'Shackles a Criminal Can't Take Off' movement speed reduction increased from 30% to 45%,
attack speed reduction decreased from 30% to 25% and now does 25% magic damage

That's not correct. There should be written "reduces target's magic damage by 25%".

Also as expected, Momiji still stuns/damages twice with her R skill. :colbert:

Code: [Select]

set w = CreateUnit(GetOwningPlayer(caster), 'n001', GetUnitX(target), GetUnitY(target), 0)
call UnitAddAbility(w,'A09T')            // this ability does 60/90/120/150 damage
call SetUnitAbilityLevel(w,'A09T',level) // and stuns for 2.0/2.5/3.0./3.5 sec
call IssueTargetOrder(w,"thunderbolt",target) // stun cast #1

call UnitMagicDamageTarget(caster, target, 30 + level * 30 + GetHeroInt(caster,true))
call UnitStunTarget(caster, target, 1.2 + level * 0.4, 0, 0) // stun cast #2
Stun #1 duration obviously does not scale with items' passives like Sunflower Hairpin.

On the other note, I discovered an item called "Hourai Branch", which was implemented in 0977+ versions, but have not been added to the shop yet.

[CloverNaght]

Feels less Hourai Immortal-ish now and more Juggernaut-wannabe.

Kaguya swap makes Komachi swap become more shittier than it is

[Dr Rawr]

Kaguya swap makes Komachi swap become more shittier than it is

u dum, kaguya doesnt have a swap

[Helepolis]

Train wreck. These devs are train wrecks.

[Dorakyura]

u dum, kaguya doesnt have a swap

well not a swap but a stupid teleport thing that does either damage enemys or heals allys. It will force the unit to teleport x into the direction the unit is viewing, so you can just "push" enemys into your 5 man ball (which is the idea of swap I guess)

[Dr Rawr]

Its just force staff

[Dorakyura]

Its just force staff

doesn't change the fact that it's stupid

[Dr Rawr]

I didnt say it wasnt....  :wat:,

Also new tower/rax placement looks fun

[ApharmdB]

That's not correct. There should be written "reduces target's magic damage by 25%".

Thanks. Will correct the changelog when I'm back. I really shouldn't be translating or doing any form of reading immediately after waking up... Waitwut.. the Chinese changelog just says "magic damage 0% -> 25%". Bah. I'll just assume that you had a peek at the code for the skill and saw its actual magic damage reduction effect yes?

And yes the Hourai Branch is a future item. The graphic is already in the map, labeled hilariously as neetwood.

Kaguya swap makes Komachi swap become more shittier than it is

The healing potential from that skill makes Minoriko cry. And with her passive, Kaguya is more M than Tenshi :V

[Dr Rawr]

Also i guess this would be version D? If we counted it starting from c. Do they still plan to make anymore major changes?

Less i edit the wiki now, more work in the future orz

[ApharmdB]

Nope this is version b :3

The 0.977di??? versions were just... pre-alpha releases or something. Notice that only 0.977a and 0.977b were posted by December herself. Besides, with the tonne of bugs in the map currently and balance tweaks to be made, I wouldn't expect this to be stable any time soon...

[Dr Rawr]

 :colbert: well crap, i may just edit my own user page and have stuff there so when the time comes i can just copy paste, srsly the work is pileing up and becoming so much :effort:

[CloverNaght]

u dum, kaguya doesnt have a swap

simillar to that but she doesn't sent herself to got raped by enemies and its instant

[Dular]

Hey, would a lot of you be opposed to the idea of taking Renko and Tokiko, some items(probably have to put in a new shop as a result), new innates, and possibly 5v5 from .977 and refitting them for .967?

I think a lot of us would rather play Defense of the Shrines rather League of Maidens.

[Thanuris]

No, this version is best version (it's not like 967 is THAT balanced anyway)

Also let developing to the original devs, some day they will get it right, we just need to wait  :derp:

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Also let developing to the original devs, some day they will get it right, we just need to wait  :derp:

I've been waiting for around a year. All it did was get worse. :V