Author Topic: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II (Read 212904 times)

Helepolis · « **Reply #510 on:** July 30, 2011, 07:59:45 AM »

Quote from: Pesco on July 30, 2011, 07:58:49 AM

Might as well tell people to PM you their votes then.

PM spam, too troublesome =.=

Dular · « **Reply #511 on:** July 30, 2011, 08:00:15 AM »

I'm for sunny getting unbanned. With that nerf hammer hitting her hard, her role seems obvious. Strong early game, harasser, and late game she is designed to simply stun and pick off low hp heroes. Her no cost only screams "You harass a lot!" at me.

Wriggle though? Hah. Not until they hit her hard with the nerf hammer.

Helepolis · « **Reply #512 on:** July 30, 2011, 08:02:49 AM »

Voted sunny milk only , the nerf looks reasonable enough to test her out in combat. Wriggle they just increased the scaling again of her insects so gtfo wriggle :[

why don't they just nerf her beetles and fade time then she is goddamn fine.

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #513 on:** July 30, 2011, 08:05:56 AM »

Voted for Sunny Milk only.

Tapsa · « **Reply #514 on:** July 30, 2011, 08:08:10 AM »

Sunny should be unbanned because I haven't even seen in the first place why she is so bad.

Doll.S CUBE · « **Reply #515 on:** July 30, 2011, 08:26:52 AM »

What is the Sunny Milk nerf?

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #516 on:** July 30, 2011, 08:29:27 AM »

Not much, mostly reduced movement speed bonus and removal of bonus damage from her windwalk.

Dular · « **Reply #517 on:** July 30, 2011, 08:43:04 AM »

Sunny was banned in the first place because no mana cost and quite possibly the strongest early game of every hero, which I think at the time, meant due to how Wriggle is, made us all afraid that we'd have another wriggle.

Except her skills don't scale so well.

Edit: At least I think that's what happened.

Yukarin · « **Reply #518 on:** July 30, 2011, 08:58:37 AM »

I am noob, and I don't know what the fuck am I doing.

What are good characters for first-time noobs like me?

Also, I'm planning to Yukari it up. Any tips?

Dular · « **Reply #519 on:** July 30, 2011, 09:11:18 AM »

The best entry character would either be Utsuho, Yuugi, or Tenshi. They are simply to play and can have big payouts with their skills.

Additionally, look into our IRC channel #DotS-Meido(located in the Getting Started thead, which is stickied and just above this thread!) for where we organize games and we'll give you a proper hazing. A trial by fire if you will.

Additionally, please use our Dots wiki(http://en.touhouwiki.net/wiki/Defence_of_The_Shrines) to research what a girl can do, what skills say, and items. They are all translated, so feel free to look up what you want BEFORE you start playing. Because knowledge is power!

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #520 on:** July 30, 2011, 09:19:10 AM »

~~Alice~~

Tenshi can be a fairly good character to start off with.
All you need to really learn with Tenshi is how to manage your MP when you don't have a lot of it to spare and map awareness.
Having both of these things will help out when you start playing other characters too.
Okuu is a decent starter too, she's fairly hard to punish.
It all depends on how you want to play, though.

Pointers on Yukari:
If you don't do something about it, your survivability sucks. You should probably try to fix that.
Your auto attack sucks. Don't bother with it.
Always keep a tab on how many creeps you have.
Be aware of the timings on your skills.

Thanuris · « **Reply #521 on:** July 30, 2011, 10:16:21 AM »

Another alternative might be Ran, since she pretty much needs no items to be useful and you only need to press a key to help in teamfights (well, maybe two :V)

tbax704 · « **Reply #522 on:** July 30, 2011, 10:33:51 AM »

Sunny unbanned only. Her skills doesn't scale that much and she's pretty killable even in early-game.
As for Wriggle, still banned. She instagibs ints by sneaking near them then attacking with D (which silences), use F, and there you go, easy kill. You can kill other girls easily by doing this.

For new players, I recommend Suwako, she can farm fast and also with your ult, you can learn to pay attention to other lanes and also learn to save allies from ganks.

Pesco · « **Reply #523 on:** July 30, 2011, 10:35:24 AM »

Ran is squishy. Minoriko rather because heals are cool.

Yukarin · « **Reply #524 on:** July 30, 2011, 11:19:37 AM »

Anybody from the girls who mostly acts like Nevermore from DoTA? I'm quite good with him, and I think I can do the same in DoTS.

EDIT: OMG PATCHOULI YOU ARE INVOKER NO I WILL NOT USE YOU

tbax704 · « **Reply #525 on:** July 30, 2011, 11:35:53 AM »

Err, no. There are no skills in DotS that matches to Nevermore's, except the armor reduction aura. Kogasa has it.

For using Yukari, gap your own creeps, not enemy's because it will reduce your exp gain. If you gap your own creeps, the person laning against you will lvl up slower. Yukari plays a role in team fights, so you can't gank solo with her.
Your job is to gap escaping enemies and dropping 1 creep on them so you can get kills, massive creep drop in team fights and also saving teammates with your ult.

Dr Rawr · « **Reply #526 on:** July 30, 2011, 12:14:52 PM »

I honestly dont even understand why she was banned before.

- She has bad str growth
- Takes extra damage from everything
- Doesnt scale at all
- Her being a early game harass is a joke, she need all of her skills max to even harass properly else its weak
- Her ult is also terrible, with hero armour spell reduction and zun glasses it does sad damage. would probably need 30+ balls to do enough damage to someone(assuming you hit with all of them)

Im guessing some people got owned in a game or two by sunny do to her play style being new to us, but banning her was a pretty dumb ^^.

CloverNaght · « **Reply #527 on:** July 30, 2011, 12:27:39 PM »

Unban Wriggle (and maybe Sunny too?) only someone like Momigay and Youmulame seems more fitting to added in banlist

Quote from: Yukoishi Yakomeiji on July 30, 2011, 11:19:37 AM

Anybody from the girls who mostly acts like Nevermore from DoTA? I'm quite good with him, and I think I can do the same in DoTS.

Kaguya and Shou
Kaguya plays her "razes" quite different but not rewarding anymore like what it used to (reason:uber nerf)
Shou quite resembles SF but you only have 2 razes and it works like slayer's stun+raze

tbax704 · « **Reply #528 on:** July 30, 2011, 12:35:52 PM »

Quote from: Dr Rawr on July 30, 2011, 12:14:52 PM

- Takes extra damage from everything
- Doesnt scale at all

Takes extra damage from everything

Her ult scales, her str affects the number of balls she shoots.

Quote from: M-Reimu on July 30, 2011, 12:27:39 PM

Kaguya plays her "razes" quite different but not rewarding anymore like what it used to (reason:uber nerf)
Shou quite resembles SF but you only have 2 razes and it works like slayer's stun+raze

Oh, I didn't realize, sorry Yukoishi Yakomeiji...

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #529 on:** July 30, 2011, 12:37:40 PM »

Quote from: tbax704 on July 30, 2011, 11:35:53 AM

so you can't gank solo with her.

I disagree, as will anyone that has fallen victim to gap->massdrop.

Captain Infinity · « **Reply #530 on:** July 30, 2011, 12:41:03 PM »

Quote from: Dr Rawr on July 30, 2011, 12:14:52 PM

- Her ult is also terrible, with hero armour spell reduction and zun glasses it does sad damage. would probably need 30+ balls to do enough damage to someone(assuming you hit with all of them)

Now this is a big laugh, I remember Sunny's ult doing extreme damage when I used her and I got hit by her. Something like 1K burst damage was taken and enough to wipe people out.

Quote from: Dr Rawr on July 30, 2011, 12:14:52 PM

- Her being a early game harass is a joke, she need all of her skills max to even harass properly else its weak

I was able to outlane Yuyuko and Tenshi in the same lane when I was alone pretty easily just by using R.

Quote from: Dr Rawr on July 30, 2011, 12:14:52 PM

- Doesnt scale at all

Not true, her ult scales according to her strength.

Quote from: tbax704 on July 30, 2011, 11:35:53 AM

Yukari plays a role in team fights, so you can't gank solo with her.

What? Yukari can't gank solo? The heck.

Just gap the hero you're ganking and then mass drop on the area where they've been gapped.

Just wondering but have you ever played Yukari or seen Yukari being played by a real player?

Anyway in regards to the poll, I accidentally clicked to keep both banned but I'm in favor of unbanning both :V Sunny's been nerfed enough that I don't mind, still wish she had some mana cost to her skills. Wriggle is meh.

tbax704 · « **Reply #531 on:** July 30, 2011, 12:44:46 PM »

Quote from: Ran Yakumo on July 30, 2011, 12:37:40 PM

I disagree, as will anyone that has fallen victim to gap->massdrop.

Oh right, that combo hurts, but the fact that she's vulnerable still remains. Just don't gank in dual lanes.

Well, I'm not that pro anyway, so I make mistakes often T_T

Dr Rawr · « **Reply #532 on:** July 30, 2011, 12:54:58 PM »

None of her skills scale damage wise, my bad, and yet again her play style is new too people, shes easily counterable. Ive played many games against sunny milk and as sunny milk, she isnt easy do to her squishyness and her not scaling part. also to get 1000+ damage wouldn need 20+ balls so unless who your facing is a complete retard and wants to take damage, moving around in a circle dodges most of them. Her skills are terrible early game, her stun is 200~ aoe at early which is trying to hit with satori nuke only a little better. her laser does meh damage on its target and only deals decent damage on its one bounce. her invis seems only good right when you get it to level 4 because of being able to semi-maintain it. Did i forget to mention shes squishy? buying a tengu = gg agi carry will have fun with you all game.

Captain Infinity · « **Reply #533 on:** July 30, 2011, 01:02:47 PM »

Quote from: Dr Rawr on July 30, 2011, 12:54:58 PM

None of her skills scale damage wise, my bad, and yet again her play style is new too people, shes easily counterable. Ive played many games against sunny milk and as sunny milk, she isnt easy do to her squishyness and her not scaling part. also to get 1000+ damage wouldn need 20+ balls so unless who your facing is a complete retard and wants to take damage, moving around in a circle dodges most of them. Her skills are terrible early game, her stun is 200~ aoe at early which is trying to hit with satori nuke only a little better. her laser does meh damage on its target and only deals decent damage on its one bounce. her invis seems only good right when you get it to level 4 because of being able to semi-maintain it. Did i forget to mention shes squishy? buying a tengu = gg agi carry will have fun with you all game.

As I said I'm willing to see how she is now that she's been nerfed.

Quote from: tbax704 on July 30, 2011, 12:44:46 PM

Oh right, that combo hurts, but the fact that she's vulnerable still remains. Just don't gank in dual lanes.

Well, I'm not that pro anyway, so I make mistakes often T_T

Quick tip, get more experience before saying things.

She's not really vulnerable if she's the one ganking... She just needs to gap -> mass drop which doesn't leave a good Yukari vulnerable.

Teetoku · « **Reply #534 on:** July 30, 2011, 02:31:28 PM »

Keep them banned~!

Rikter · « **Reply #535 on:** July 30, 2011, 02:53:49 PM »

I'd say unban sunny for awhile and see how that goes. Once people accept that true sight is a viable counter to invis and wards are not a massive resource drain then we could try Wriggle.

As for wasy starting characters Tenshi is easy. She's pretty much Earthshaker with Zeus's ultimate.

Tapsa · « **Reply #536 on:** July 30, 2011, 04:41:57 PM »

Sunny Milk's ult sounds similar to Hourai dolls' infamous danmaku spam, except the point where Sunny Milk doesn't do pure damage but magical and thus will never be able to even scratch a hero.

edit:

Quote from: Dr Rawr on July 30, 2011, 12:54:58 PM

...moving around in a circle dodges most of them.

Wait, you can even dodge them? Another reason why the ult sucks compared to Tripwire's converging green orbs of death...

Helepolis · « **Reply #537 on:** July 30, 2011, 07:49:10 PM »

SunnyMilk is now unbanned from regular games, just like Koishi for experimental reasons.

Night4ce · « **Reply #538 on:** July 31, 2011, 01:13:27 AM »

Soo.. Who is on the banned list as of now..?

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #539 on:** July 31, 2011, 01:20:21 AM »

Quote

<%Rinnosuke> Banned item/girls: Wriggle Rumia LunarBow Camera Weather Lunasa BrownBeta Alice

Alice is only on there because she's bugged right now.