Author Topic: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II (Read 212892 times)

Dular · « **Reply #360 on:** June 13, 2011, 06:56:19 PM »

Now I'm just a stupid ol' person who hasn't played dots for a week now, due to massive gaming on my end, and I certainly don't like facing Momiji too much(unless I'm Koakuma or Merlin or something), but I've never had too much of a problem with Aya or Youmu or Hatate. Youmu is entirely physical, picking up a Myon or something else high armor really invalidates her, and 3D escaping yourself(or her!) makes her cry. Aya and Hatate suffers from a similar problem, although as you guys said, mobility is high with these two which helps their game tremendously.

Instead of me rambling on, I'm just going to put it like this. The heroes that people favor right now are particularly weak to these three. There are a slew of characters that are also strong against these three, but nobody picks them because they'd rather also pick similar characters.

CloverNaght · « **Reply #361 on:** June 13, 2011, 07:42:21 PM »

Quote from: Dular on June 13, 2011, 06:56:19 PM

There are a slew of characters that are also strong against these three, but nobody picks them because they'd rather also pick similar characters.

obv some of us do that but...

Quote from: Dr Rawr on June 05, 2011, 02:40:58 PM

Honestly yea i can counter pick, yea i can counter with items such as iae, ghgm, hsa but having to do this every game takes the fun out it for some im sure.

this

CloverNaght · « **Reply #362 on:** June 13, 2011, 07:49:16 PM »

...except you not aiming for fun in playing DoTS at all (why do you think this game is a really good media for having fun anyway more like good media for anger management training)

BallerSupreme · « **Reply #363 on:** June 13, 2011, 11:43:56 PM »

i think the main arguing point about certain heroes is how much countering they require.

Some carries don't really require additional countering aside from +armor, but then there are those like Rumia that specifically need stacking slows or mass disables.

as for 3d, i like the idea but while it stops you from getting killed by Aya, it doesn't stop Aya from escaping if you use it on her, nor does it stop her from killing someone else if you used it on yourself. it's definitely an awesome item though, you're right that more people should get it.

also i actually don't mind hatate at all. the nerf to basher and her r hit her hard, and even before then she wasn't a particularly outstanding carry hero. Her scaling is spike damage from R, so if you don't get gibbed by the R (which can be done by getting armor), then she's an agi hero with nothing to boost her dps. I think her mobility is very reasonable in that respect.

HOENA · « **Reply #364 on:** June 14, 2011, 03:05:21 AM »

I've seen the game, dots, I think really what is needed is some corrections to some characters: Rumination. koishi and Wriggle.
the latter could not do as Rikimaru

I see a serious flaw in this Playlands terrasque because it does not regenerate anything: S

As for the tengus we could wait out an item like Orchi.

I have a question. the item You Sure That's Enough Armor?, really good, because it does not cure state, which state no more cure. I use it when I am poisoned with full bar and nothing happens, it's a bug perhaps?, this item is used for cases other than to revive faster.

Night4ce · « **Reply #365 on:** June 14, 2011, 05:45:02 AM »

I myself haven't used 3b much at all... I'll be trying it later to feel it out.. As for "You Sure That's Enough Armor".. Says it removes all negative statuses from you with the exchange of a full charge... Maybe a bug.. or maybe Poisson or anything that isn't a negate on a stat *armor, strength, dexterity* isn't affected because it isn't a "Negative" status.. It's a effect..

ApharmdB · « **Reply #366 on:** June 14, 2011, 06:54:08 AM »

So I've been surfing the touhou.cc forums more these days to see what they actually think of the various heros. Less srsbsns discussion there and more derping around, which is why if you guys play with the Chinese/Taiwanese, you're more likely to run into people who're just there to get in a game and mess around with their favourite Touhou character instead of actually defending a shrine. Also, different playstyles as everyone here already knows. I thought this one was funny, and also demonstrates how an early ward might pay off if creatively used (mental note: I need to get these things more often), so I'm sharing it here (taken off http://www.touhou.cc/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=39254&extra=page%3D1)

Suika's starting items for the day...

Ward the high ground!

Don't really know how she did it, but Suika stalling creeps...

Target decided - the old hag's gotta go.

Come closer baby...

Take a ride

No need to say anymore...

Side note: Someone posted a link there to a map with ex-rumia unlocked, but I decided to go for lunch first and download it later instead. When I got back, the post was locked... *facepalmheaddeskargh*

Dular · « **Reply #367 on:** June 14, 2011, 07:33:14 AM »

Quote from: ApharmdB on June 14, 2011, 06:54:08 AM

So I've been surfing the touhou.cc forums more these days to see what they actually think of the various heros. Less srsbsns discussion there and more derping around, which is why if you guys play with the Chinese/Taiwanese, you're more likely to run into people who're just there to get in a game and mess around with their favourite Touhou character instead of actually defending a shrine.

Does not compute. dots, dota, LoL, HoN is srs bsns only.

CloverNaght · « **Reply #368 on:** June 14, 2011, 07:38:07 AM »

Quote from: ApharmdB on June 14, 2011, 06:54:08 AM

wall of pics

that becuz yukari is insanely stupid why she meleeing suika lmao
also i needs teh map *drools*

EDIT:maybe they doing that on purpose my bad lol

ApharmdB · « **Reply #369 on:** June 14, 2011, 08:23:58 AM »

Quote from: WhiteKaguya on June 14, 2011, 07:38:07 AM

that becuz yukari is insanely stupid why she meleeing suika lmao
also i needs teh map *drools*

EDIT:maybe they doing that on purpose my bad lol

Actually from the previous pic, I think Yukari attacked Letty for some reason and in that one attack, Suika closed the distance and tossed her up. Yukari didn't move from her initial spot at all and we know the kind of latency (or lack of) that these guys play with...

I need that map too.

If only I weren't so hungry earlier on... Posts there about EX-Rumia tend to get locked and deleted the moment a moderator comes online, especially if they involve modified maps... Argh!!!! >.<

Quote from: Dular on June 14, 2011, 07:33:14 AM

Does not compute. dots, dota, LoL, HoN is srs bsns only.

Heh this is the crap that goes on in their games... (from http://www.touhou.cc/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=39295&extra=page%3D1)

Quote

(Translated)
Just had a public game...
The opposite team's Keine just finished a gank and headed back to the shrine using the lower jump pad (Moriya's side) with almost no health. Our team's Mokou was at the jump pad too and silently watched Keine retreat into the distance...

Our team scolded the Mokou player for not using her dive skill to finish Keine off there and then....
He replied "I will be very sad if Mokou kills Keine"
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
This is love!
I was in tears after hearing that!
How will I ever deal with such sadness in future?!

:V

Reminds me of Sengoku Gensokyo and its affinity bonuses/debuffs. Using Keine to fight Mokou in that game reduced their abilities while once you had Mokou on your team, putting her alongside Keine raised both their stats, sometimes to rather crazy levels. It was rumoured that the DotS devs were considering putting such a feature into the game back in the days of the 0.95x versions since characters with affinities/enmities for each other were already nicely grouped. No idea what happened to that. I suppose they took the route of "the more characters the better".

Helepolis · « **Reply #370 on:** June 14, 2011, 09:19:04 AM »

What DrRawr said about fun and what WW agrees on is what I have been shouting like for dunno-how-many-versions.

@ Aph, the whole setup of Dots is obviously becoming more a "fuck around" style. I did notice the average play time has dropped from 40 minutes to 25 or so. Games quickly take a one-sided balance thus causing steamrolling. I've seen various chinese videos where their items are meant for solo-fucking-around.

Yesterday's game I played proved how stupid a once sided game can be. We got steamrolled in like 20 minutes, but defending 30 minutes or so while the loss was obvious. Stalling a loss, I think I am going to stop doing that from now on as well.

Also @ the screens, that Yukari is fucking stupid to get trapped there.

BallerSupreme · « **Reply #371 on:** June 14, 2011, 02:36:09 PM »

that mokou player...

he understands the true meaning of manliness.

ApharmdB · « **Reply #372 on:** June 14, 2011, 03:38:16 PM »

Quote from: Helepolis on June 14, 2011, 09:19:04 AM

What DrRawr said about fun and what WW agrees on is what I have been shouting like for dunno-how-many-versions.

@ Aph, the whole setup of Dots is obviously becoming more a "fuck around" style. I did notice the average play time has dropped from 40 minutes to 25 or so. Games quickly take a one-sided balance thus causing steamrolling. I've seen various chinese videos where their items are meant for solo-fucking-around.

Yesterday's game I played proved how stupid a once sided game can be. We got steamrolled in like 20 minutes, but defending 30 minutes or so while the loss was obvious. Stalling a loss, I think I am going to stop doing that from now on as well.

Also @ the screens, that Yukari is fucking stupid to get trapped there.

Lol that game. Moriya could've ended it a lot faster by sending another pair of sokus, but I guess they were on cooldown or something. That and if Ace wasn't fooling around as Shou so much. Frankly, I don't mind shorter games if they're done right. Like D2, it's a chore to level up early on even though it's part of the game, so I think the devs did the right thing in boosting the experience gain to speed things up. I think there was even a small chance that we could even have made a comeback... if we had a carry of our own.

Also, I wish the map could be more consistent in the way skills interact with each other. :| Gonna do some tests with Shizuha's entangling roots skill when I get the free time - it seems that some skills are disabled while entangled while others aren't.

Anyway, I think most Suika players would've tossed their target somewhere else in that picture so I shared that pic since I thought it was a neat trick if really situational. Yukari may have been dumb by remaining in melee range (Suika with a broom is a lot faster than Yukari btw), but melee heros may not be able to avoid the toss so easily if they want to farm creeps.

Helepolis · « **Reply #373 on:** June 14, 2011, 04:21:16 PM »

Ace didn't really fuck around much, he was on par with my Komachi because I was making his life miserable with souls. I started ganking mid to help out siege, but Shizuha (DrRawR) was already fed as he had melon sword and AGI items.

About Shizuha, you can use Marisa's dash while you are in her roots. Same goes for Aya as well I think.

Pesco · « **Reply #374 on:** June 14, 2011, 04:57:25 PM »

I am most certainly down with a game to play for the love of Touhou fandom and pairings. Yeah let's play more silly and say 'Screw defending the stupid mikos' shrines!'

Rikter · « **Reply #375 on:** June 15, 2011, 01:36:20 AM »

The Miko's would rather destroy their own shrine.

CloverNaght · « **Reply #376 on:** June 15, 2011, 02:21:07 AM »

Quote from: ApharmdB on June 14, 2011, 08:23:58 AM

Heh this is the crap that goes on in their games... (from http://www.touhou.cc/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=39295&extra=page%3D1)

manly_tears.jpg
man that mokou's kindness.....teaches us the true meaning of love

Helepolis · « **Reply #377 on:** June 15, 2011, 07:37:18 AM »

Quote from: Pesco on June 14, 2011, 04:57:25 PM

Yeah let's play more silly and say 'Screw defending the stupid mikos' shrines!'

No wai, my faith in the shrine is always strong.

kactaplb · « **Reply #378 on:** June 18, 2011, 07:02:28 PM »

...speechless. so manly! although if this happened in our games, rage would ensue I'm sure.

needs more theme picks regardless, and less counter picking or worrying about this or that.

srsbsns opinion, I don't think any girls should be banned ~~except exrumia~~ as long as said girls aren't pick every single game yea? Anyways, I rather enjoy playing against jerk picks. It simply means the team has to pick up the slack with skill. YEA! or I'm an m. Anyways...

Dular · « **Reply #379 on:** June 18, 2011, 08:40:43 PM »

Quote from: kactaplb on June 18, 2011, 07:02:28 PM

needs more theme picks regardless, and less counter picking or worrying about this or that.

That's why whenever I'm first player, we do hide pick. And more theme picks would be nice.

Nightkriss · « **Reply #380 on:** June 18, 2011, 08:48:36 PM »

Why won't we host games with modes 2-2 ? Right now players are not choosing girls,which they want to play but just chars to troll other team girls. It's ruining the fun from game.

Ace-Royale · « **Reply #381 on:** June 18, 2011, 10:01:48 PM »

I'm also in favour of 2-2 after a couple games at the Taiwan room. It tends to force people to think about their hero choices and how they synergize, which is better for increasing the skill of players. Also, 1-2 generally leads to counterpick (well, I usually make my hero choices based on other team, so I'm assuming it'd be same for others) which just takes the fun out of the game.

I also wouldn't mind experimenting with unbanning every girl (fine, maybe not Rumia, she's just dumb.) / item / weather (the +mp / +attack seems cool) just to see if our skill would improve. The games at Taiwan wasn't as rage-inducing as I thought it'd be, even with chars like Youmu being picked frequently there. Those chars force you to play better, to mapwatch, and teamplay. (spamming truesight wards if Wriggle appeared for example, or not overextending if Momizi is mia.) Of course it might lead to gay chars being picked every game, but it's just a thought I had. We rage half the time in our regular dots games anyway :/

Pesco · « **Reply #382 on:** June 18, 2011, 10:25:28 PM »

You guys make me sad with all the Rumia hate. I just like how adorable she is but nobody likes to play with her ;_;

Dormio Ergo Sum · « **Reply #383 on:** June 18, 2011, 10:53:07 PM »

I'd let Rumia eat me up.

Dular · « **Reply #384 on:** June 19, 2011, 01:05:16 AM »

I would LOVE for weather to be unlocked. Adds a whole new dimension of faith using.

That and Tenshi's innate would be useful!

Teetoku · « **Reply #385 on:** June 19, 2011, 04:24:19 AM »

Quote from: Dular on June 19, 2011, 01:05:16 AM

I would LOVE for weather to be unlocked. Adds a whole new dimension of faith using.

That and Tenshi's innate would be useful!

YES! YES!![/Bison] Seconded.

CloverNaght · « **Reply #386 on:** June 19, 2011, 07:48:06 AM »

Quote from: Dular on June 19, 2011, 01:05:16 AM

I would LOVE for weather to be unlocked. Adds a whole new dimension of faith using.

That and Tenshi's innate would be useful!

i suggest unlock only Drizzle weather (the ones which provides +3 mp/s regen) because its the only ones i find not stupid like the rest of weathers.
Also i suggest 2-2 BUT no one randompick (prevents "yo dawg my team randompicks and got rumia koishi momigay aya so no rm plox letz continue ze~)

Quote from: Pesco on June 18, 2011, 10:25:28 PM

You guys make me sad with all the Rumia hate. I just like how adorable she is but nobody likes to play with her ;_;

/me hugs Pesco and cries together ;_;

Dular · « **Reply #387 on:** June 19, 2011, 08:15:17 AM »

Quote from: WhiteKaguya on June 19, 2011, 07:48:06 AM

i suggest unlock only Drizzle weather (the ones which provides +3 mp/s regen) because its the only ones i find not stupid like the rest of weathers.

The only one I might have an issue with would be Spring Haze, which isn't so bad due to it's high faith cost early and middle on. The rest are fairly okay, each having their ups and downs on certain characters, and ALL weathers are situational. If I was China or someone, you bet I'd use me some East Asian Rain right off the bat.

Actually I'm not averse to spring haze either since at least it'd extend dots gameplay as well. No longer would an accidental teamwipe be the end of the game!... Well it still would, because Spring Haze only lasts 25 seconds compared to the usual respawn time of 70 seconds, but the thought is there. It'd also slow down the agi-carries who rely on physical damage a whole lot to do anything.

CloverNaght · « **Reply #388 on:** June 19, 2011, 08:46:24 AM »

Quote from: Dular on June 19, 2011, 08:15:17 AM

The only one I might have an issue with would be Spring Haze, which isn't so bad due to it's high faith cost early and middle on. The rest are fairly okay, each having their ups and downs on certain characters, and ALL weathers are situational. If I was China or someone, you bet I'd use me some East Asian Rain right off the bat.

Actually I'm not averse to spring haze either since at least it'd extend dots gameplay as well. No longer would an accidental teamwipe be the end of the game!... Well it still would, because Spring Haze only lasts 25 seconds compared to the usual respawn time of 70 seconds, but the thought is there. It'd also slow down the agi-carries who rely on physical damage a whole lot to do anything.

Maybe we should unban some (or maybe all) weathers and lets see what happened about 1 week

Pesco · « **Reply #389 on:** June 19, 2011, 08:54:53 AM »

I'm willing to give this a try and see how our metagame changes