[WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II

[eronar]

No, I am behind my words
I am proving how useless they are in team fights. Even if they farm safely, get kills and get away with that, they cant unlock the true potential of items they get. If you are annoyed by their farming/tower diving/ganking potential don't play the game by their rules, just push their towers. You can't counter everyone with same strategies, just adept to the situation. And still, the objective of the game is destroying the enemy shrine, and you cant achieve this without pushing.

Lets say opposing aya is raping squishies here and there, and you decide to push. But their okuu single handedly stops your push with some meat shield help, then aya comes in and kills the survivors. Which one do you think is the OP one? Or you are pushing and Merlin taunts your melee agility and their team rapes it, after that aya comes and the fight turns into a 3v4 from 4v3. Who do you think won the game now? Or their suwako ulti+aoe stuns your team for 4 seconds, while aya destroys people without opposition. Any carry can do that. She could just dash/blink in and get  destroyed in 1 second even with the help of her teammates . Now if Byak was doing the same thing, she could stun everyone, tank lots of damage and nuke the squishy. And she can do this with half the items aya has. Also gold is not infinite, if you can get away with less farming, your teammate can make use of that gold instead.

[BallerSupreme]

Eronar, i have a serious question.

Do you not buy any defensive items on your carry heroes?

[Rikter]

Momiji was great before getting her Innate. She has a very long stun and her wolves are extremely good for harass or outright killing. If she can get the stun off and have wolves out she pretty much has already won against almost anyone early.

[Dr Rawr]

again assuming teams, in a general situation tengu's will pick off any squishy(int or not) before a siege will occur and get away with it because of there mobility. As i said before in mobility is a huge factor in dots. at some point this leads to tengu's being over farmed, be able to put out dps and still survive. team support means shit if your support is dieing do to some tengu ninja. only reasonable counter would be chain disables from enemy team, but again tengu also has allys so wasting everything you got on aya just to kill her isnt viable. also note ganking/tower diving plays a huge role in dots, in almost all the games ive seen if a tengu gets a chance to come and gank they will. also please quit assuming teams, for all we know aya may show up from a random.

Also adapting and such isnt viable we play for fun not competitive everyone having to go out of there way to just counter one enemy girl is so trouble some and with new players showing up having to deal with hard to kill carrys such as the tengus/nitori/flan isnt very viable.

your comparison seemed to prove that tengus have team support huh?

[CloverNaght]

Obviously I'm the one who voted Eiki, I don't actually expect anyone to ban her, I just fucking hate everything about her. :V

Did getting that crit passive really make Momiji that good? The wolves aren't a deadly threat by themselves and Momiji herself you can see coming, I don't recall ever being in a game where I was scared of her; she can't really burst out of nowhere and fuck you up like some other agi girls. I think Nitori is much worse, if you're at half health she can just fly across the map from anywhere and murder you. Flying is a cute gimmick on Mystia, but Nitori's noclip is just bullshit. Same deal with Aya.

the thing is, Momigay for me is one of best solo laner in game even shes AGI melee (agi melee supposed to be WEAK at early game but not for momizi which is dumb)because wolves can pretty much screw everyone's farm at early.Ok so we tower hugging but problem doesn't solved at all.Tower hugging=no exp for ya since denying in dots=no exp at all which is another fail devs job and she go tralala i'm in heaven 12 mins adamantine.decent farmed momizi at mid game can instagib every squishies ingame or even some str's.Don't forget her underused reveal skill (which suprises me why that skill is underused lol) can be devastating just like hatate's reveal

for eiki well after they give her new 3rd skill i can see why.With hp stacking and aspd items she can pretty much kill everything (but you still need tank to do that tho)

[CloverNaght]

Eronar, i have a serious question.

Do you not buy any defensive items on your carry heroes?

good question i was wondering that too

[eronar]

Yay, everyone is teamed up against me

I mostly build defensive or support items, because I almost never play carries. What I am wondering is how  your support/squishies die that fast, are they building offensive items?  And I am not defending tengus because I like playing them, I am defending them because they are innocent    They excel at doing annoying things ,thats why people think tengus are the reason they lost. People always remember that aya that killed them when they were running to safety.

-If a team cant kill a tengu trying to kill their squishy they deserve to lose, because they have no team coordination.
-Momiji's wolves are powerful, she may force you to tower hug, but that also makes her easier to gank. Just put someone who can hold their own against her.
-Of course tengus will have team support too, but they are medicore in straightout fights. That is not an opinion, that's a fact, it's just siting there at the corner, like the Law of Gravity.

[Dr Rawr]

Yay, everyone is teamed up against me

I mostly build defensive or support items, because I almost never play carries. What I am wondering is how  your support/squishies die that fast, are they building offensive items?  And I am not defending tengus because I like playing them, I am defending them because they are innocent    They excel at doing annoying things ,thats why people think tengus are the reason they lost. People always remember that aya that killed them when they were running to safety.

-If a team cant kill a tengu trying to kill their squishy they deserve to lose, because they have no team coordination.
-Momiji's wolves are powerful, she may force you to tower hug, but that also makes her easier to gank. Just put someone who can hold their own against her.
-Of course tengus will have team support too, but they are medicore in straightout fights. That is not an opinion, that's a fact, it's just siting there at the corner, like the Law of Gravity.

-having to pool all your resources into one hero is dumb
-momiji isnt easily gankable do to her forever stuna dn ms
- medicore how? they have dps with out even trying do to aspd crits and passives

you keep ignoreing the fact that they have DPS, MOBILITY,  and SURVIVABILITY

maybe the reason everyone is against you is beacuse your dead wrong and playing the game actually shows how wrong you are k?

[eronar]

Nah, if the majority was always right, we would be living in utopias right now.

[Dr Rawr]

no because majority != everyone so it wouldnt be called utopia because minority wont admit there wrong

[BallerSupreme]

stop arguing
theorycrafting is pretty retarded, because you never have enough context.

Ero, you stopped playing with us anyway, why don't you start joining the irc again?

[eronar]

Majority believes in 'strength in numbers' , they think their word is law, because they have power, but don't forget, power corrupts. If you want to ban tengus, ban them because they are annoying/unfun to play against, not because they are OP. I cant play DotS much anyways, and I almost never play with tengus. I also never had problems with tengus (Even when hero/WW were playing with them). I couldn't care less . But I am doing this for the sake of justice. Yeah, justice for video game characters... its still justice.

[eronar]

Had some final exams/ takehomes. Going to join you soon 

[Thanuris]

Flandre dies to every nuke in the game,(unless you get more HP by items, but the tengus can do that too right) Utsuho lanes against something with regeneration and she sucks, Merlin can't tank everything because her str growth is pathetic for a "tanky" character(also if your enemy isn't stupid he can just hold out the taunt). Byakuren is a good character IMO but she isn't a good carry either, at late game she needs to hope that an actually good carry like nazrin/hatate/reisen got farmed. Also, mobility is IMPORTANT, in DotS and DotA and all the AoS that you can think about, since that if you can't pursue a hero, you can't kill it (if an aya with adamantine isn't dumb you won't be ganking her anytime soon, or escaping from her... you can't even juke her because of bunbunmaru!)

Don't you think that if you towerhug the whole game so you can avoid getting killed by momiji/aya/hatate the other team is going to farm the other lanes or go to neutrals?

Also this:

-If a team cant kill a tengu trying to kill their squishy they deserve to lose, because they have no team coordination.

You can't expect the whole team to be together early game, and that is the moment where heroes like momiji must get the upper advantage. Only thing that you can do is put wards in the jungle/jumpspots so you can avoid the ganks, but in a public game that won't be happening anytime soon

Anyway i think that you are theorycrafting too much, we say that the tengus are dumb because we saw them ruining games(but i still think that the dumbest hero is nitori )

EDIT: Dang this panda too fast

[Dular]

... So uh, them Minamitsu innate.  What is it?

[BallerSupreme]

Ghost Sign "Super Ship Crashing Skills"

When Murasa is in the ship when it dies, if it's over land she is slowed for a long duration. If the terrain cannot be unloaded on, she dies.
She is the captain, and goes down with the ship.

[Dular]

Ghost Sign "Super Ship Crashing Skills"

When Murasa is in the ship when it dies, if it's over land she is slowed for a long duration. If the terrain cannot be unloaded on, she dies.
She is the captain, and goes down with the ship.

I thought Innates were supposed to be good!  For days, weeks I eagerly awaited Murasa's innate.  Who knows what it would be?  Wider hooks?

And then they give us boat crashing that will troll me at least once?  The only way this is useful is if I want to troll myself and die to prevent the enemy from getting the final shot.  Boo T_T

[ApharmdB]

I thought Innates were supposed to be good!

Cirno would like to have a word with you

[CloverNaght]

Ghost Sign "Super Ship Crashing Skills"

When Murasa is in the ship when it dies, if it's over land she is slowed for a long duration. If the terrain cannot be unloaded on, she dies.
She is the captain, and goes down with the ship.

oh hoo more nerf semi-OP or balanced girls and buff more OP ones eh?

[Ace-Royale]

Well didn't Murasa die anyway if she was on water, and slowed if she was on grass when ship went down with her on it? So afaik nothing changed with addition of this passive.

[BallerSupreme]

Yeah, as Ace said, it's not actually a skill. It's just like a tooltip that explains what happens when the boat crashes.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Aya/Momiji/Hatate. Useless in teamfights.
Excuse me, I'll be laughing over there.

[PX]

5 is not enough votes to get rid of the Agi carries.

[Teetoku]

Haven't able to get on the comp *sigh*

And ban Aya & Momiji! *votes*

Cirno would like to have a word with you

That's a actually a good thing.

[Helepolis]

None of the girls have to banned if they would have just balance out their skills.

Wait, something in my previous line makes no sense.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

>DotS
>Balance

도대체 무슨 말 하고 있냐?
What the hell are you to say?

[Helepolis]

- We could all write essays on how the balance should be or not.
- We could summon 50 threads talking about dots
- We could create dozens of polls to "investigate" certain things.

The problem is: we are not the devs, it is not our project, aka: We have to DWI or simply not play.

We all know how these so called "Community projects" unfold. Dots is the proof of it. I gave up the hopes long ago (all the way in v952). Dota has no passive abilities for the girls, LoL has. Failure to imitate as well.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

We have to DWI or simply not play.

Yepyep.

I gave up the hopes long ago

Wait, you had hopes of DotS being balanced?
:V

[Helepolis]

Between 949c and 952 or so, there were useful tweaks and bug fixes. As well as tweaking out some stuff on some girls. It made the games more enjoyable. We barely raged back then, remember?

Of course, there was never the real obvious balance (as Rumia still remained gay with Koishi and Nitori) but Wriggle was not banned back then, remember?



TL DR;  There was never balance, but it wasn't as fucked up as it was since 0.952.

[Pesco]

Poll narrowed down.