Author Topic: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II  (Read 212909 times)

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #300 on: June 07, 2011, 02:24:34 PM »
Hmm sounds a good idea i was one of ppl who "pick hard carry like no tommorow" but now i start picking another heroes
Why people keeps picking the very same girls lol we got 57 girls to choose so why picking the very same girl again and again and again and again

It's the way games are. Back in CS, everyone played de_dust and de_dust2 like it was going out of style the next day or something, despite other maps being a lot more interesting. Some heroes are just easier to figure out and use than the others. Although it's not a bad idea for someone new to the game to stick to one hero for a while too... I probably haven't tried half the heroes myself. Maybe it's due to the memories of playing a melee squishy hero back when I had 3-5 seconds of lag... :P

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #301 on: June 07, 2011, 06:14:39 PM »
i think its cool that aph plays meiling. she's so attractive she deserves to be picked every game.

Dular

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #302 on: June 07, 2011, 08:59:12 PM »
This is why I typically random or if the other team is a jerk team(or if I feel jerk), counterpick.  Fun>Winning
Quote from: ApharmdB
i think its cool that aph plays meiling

I've done carry with China before though.  China against carries which are usually squishy tends to have China winning if you do her right and a bit of luck.

I beat up a freaking Nazrin with her shields up as China.  Rar!

Stuffman

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #303 on: June 07, 2011, 10:04:50 PM »
I beat up a freaking Nazrin with her shields up as China.  Rar!

Was that me? I think that was me. I was like WHY IS SHE WINNING D:

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #304 on: June 07, 2011, 10:06:41 PM »
KICK, PUNCH! IT'S ALL IN THE MIND! :V

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #305 on: June 07, 2011, 10:52:13 PM »
This is why I typically random or if the other team is a jerk team(or if I feel jerk), counterpick.  Fun>Winning
I've done carry with China before though.  China against carries which are usually squishy tends to have China winning if you do her right and a bit of luck.

I beat up a freaking Nazrin with her shields up as China.  Rar!

Wut? How was that my quote? :P China's pretty fun to play, but she's a bit like canon Youmu - really quite powerful but surrounded by even more overpowered jerks. The way I see it, she's pretty dangerous if she gets lucky with her F skill since it ignores armour (i.e. screw nazrin's shield). But if you get games where you can count on one hand the number of times her bash procs.... :V

Dular

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #306 on: June 08, 2011, 08:31:28 AM »
Wut? How was that my quote?

I don't do transitions very well.  In a different forum, I started talking about sharks when the topic was about MMO skinner boxes.

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #307 on: June 08, 2011, 09:04:37 PM »
Wut? How was that my quote? :P China's pretty fun to play, but she's a bit like canon Youmu - really quite powerful but surrounded by even more overpowered jerks. The way I see it, she's pretty dangerous if she gets lucky with her F skill since it ignores armour (i.e. screw nazrin's shield). But if you get games where you can count on one hand the number of times her bash procs.... :V
for me before her nerf (when spin has hawt AoE etc etc) shes a beast.But they nerf semi-OP heroes and buff obv gayOP ones (momigay and ayagay everyone?) i alr almost give up on playing her (from replay thread you can see my meiling went ghgm build and for me its her core LOL)
Behold the power of love instagibbing, ze!!~

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #308 on: June 09, 2011, 04:07:53 PM »
true meiling goes double bra, to support her bountiful bust during combat.
no other items needed.

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #309 on: June 09, 2011, 04:09:27 PM »
What about the dragon star   :derp:

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #310 on: June 09, 2011, 06:10:08 PM »
Anyone have experience with Lyrica yet? She looks really fun.

I think Ran and Chen were more interesting when they were together though D:

CloverNaght

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #311 on: June 10, 2011, 12:08:13 AM »
true meiling goes double bra, to support her bountiful bust during combat.
no other items needed.
oh u
Behold the power of love instagibbing, ze!!~

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #312 on: June 10, 2011, 04:52:00 AM »
Anyone have experience with Lyrica yet? She looks really fun.

I think Ran and Chen were more interesting when they were together though D:


lyrica is hella boss.
she's a really good support hero and also has a very strong lane presence. also her nuke combos well with a lot of things, especially right click spikers like nitori.


but that d skill is so good.

CloverNaght

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #313 on: June 10, 2011, 07:11:17 AM »
Anyone have experience with Lyrica yet? She looks really fun.

I think Ran and Chen were more interesting when they were together though D:
lyrica=really cool INT support hero but when devs made her, they went drunk mode and put AGI as her primary attribute so yea
Behold the power of love instagibbing, ze!!~

Pesco

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #314 on: June 10, 2011, 10:16:26 AM »
The poll is stupidly long. Gonna remove the girls with 0 votes every once in a while until we got the main hated list of carries.

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #315 on: June 10, 2011, 11:18:56 AM »
lol pesco i just meant for a y/n poll  :yukkuri:

also lol ex-rumia

Dormio Ergo Sum

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #316 on: June 10, 2011, 12:36:47 PM »
<Akiyama_dorMio> just ban all agis, excluding mystia, and rumia
<Akiyama_dorMio> problem solved

Lunaca

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #317 on: June 10, 2011, 12:37:02 PM »
someone chose to ban eiki
thats sick!
The "Bystander" of #dots-meido with a curious lack of "meido"

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #318 on: June 10, 2011, 12:40:37 PM »
It cant be as bad as banning reisen  :getdown:

Rikter

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #319 on: June 10, 2011, 01:47:38 PM »
5 votes isn't enough.

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #320 on: June 10, 2011, 01:55:07 PM »
I don't think that tengus are OP. They are very mobile but thats it, they have weak early game (aside from wolves), and they don't  scale very well late game. Also, dont forget that the bash hammer is nerfed. Banning the tengus will make countering invisible girls/ substitution doll even harder.
The real Op girls are okuu, byakuren, yuuka and maybe merlin and suwako. They cant be countered. Okuu deals twice the damage of a nuker with twice the durability and her ultimate is golden. Byak is just op, she has godlike scaling. Yuuka can get only tanky items and still deal super high damage, which also scales into infinity. Suwako can become very tanky, deal good damage and disable like a boss. And Merlin is the ultimate troll.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 01:59:13 PM by eronar »

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #321 on: June 10, 2011, 02:06:26 PM »
Basher still stuns for 1.0s on melee heros, 0.4s on ranged heros fyi.

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #322 on: June 10, 2011, 02:16:24 PM »
obviously someones bad at this, no death = no down time in farming/exp = more farmed hard agi carry = pick on an int squishy and win. All those things tengus can do easy do to there insane ms/aspd. Saying there stats dont scale well is all retarded  aya gets around 100 agi late game which then her passive stirs shit and causes people to die easily while she laughs away dashing across the map, momiji early -> late game again gains criticals, have invisible wolves go around trolling squishy ints and that 4second stun to pick anyone off laning. Hatate free maphack, max aspd, and pure damage buff, oh look a blink, AND LETS NOT FORGET HER FREE ESCAPE FROM DEATH NO MATTER WHAT. byakuren no doubt has shitty early and mid game and wtf do you mean she scales well? she has a bad attack animation and just to make up for that she has to buy all this aspd. Yuuka yea i admit she can drop towers pretty fast but you know buying an iae makes her pretty useless in any situation, and buying ghgm which is in almost every game allows us to remove any unnecessary clones from the battle field. okuu is lol yea she can have a good early game but that doesnt make her god like. buy zun glasses and a couple kebabs and babysitting ur carry could probably allow you to outfarm her and troll her the rest of the game, or hell take the extra step and buy a green dam and get 6seconds of lol'ing at her. Merlin yet again zun glasses/green dam or hell even a stun allows her ult to do nothing and lets you step away for a couple seconds and then go back in and start killing stuff. About the no counter to invis/subdoll ever buy a tengu/wards? yea they hard counter them pretty well. saying tengus have bad early game doesnt mean anything, if there getting pressured by someone they can always just jungle(which there all good at) and just come out for ganks on the weakest enemy hero. Also katana makes a sad frog.

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #323 on: June 10, 2011, 04:05:08 PM »
And just tower hugging/team pushing makes all tengus useless. They have no utility in team fights. They cant blink out of the game when the other team is pushing. This is supposed to be a team game, right? And I am talking about Merlin's taunt, its just game breaking if used right. Byak has superior scaling.She can get a peach and get some beautiful int items with clickies, and still tank like a boss.  And she brings and aoe stun+flying saucer to team fights.

If tengus get green dam, dragon star or both, your teams agility carry can just destroy them, since tengus have 1-2 skill dedicated to scouting-mobility and not bring much to a real fight.

Rikter

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #324 on: June 10, 2011, 04:11:33 PM »
Hatate and Momiji have no need for second to destroy things and the main point of using Aya's "Scouting skill" is to get Pure Damage bonuses. Also Momiji has a 3.5 second stun which brings quite a bit to a fight.

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #325 on: June 10, 2011, 04:41:28 PM »
your right they have no support, thats why there hard carrys, that thing thats supposed to kill the enemy team no help yours, comparing a hard carry to a semi carry is dumb. saying its a team game means nothing we dont know the heros and we dont know how experienced they are, but in general game play they can out dps anyone. stats mean nothing tengus use items to kill everything and are able to farm easily, aya is just get agi and her scaling/slow/high proc rate passive will pretty much out dps everyone. your right a farmed byakuren is a dangerous as with ANY OTHER HERO WHO GETS FARMED. merlin taunt is only scary when combo'd with another hero who can abuse it.

Also mid game tower hugging doesnt work, tengus can tower dive and escape if things go wrong.

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #326 on: June 10, 2011, 04:46:52 PM »
Aya's dash= mobility+a little damage
Aya's tornado= real combat skill
Aya's bunbunmaru =real combat skill+scouting/invisible counter
Aya's ultimate=mobility

Hatate's blink= mobility
Hatate's rapid shot=real combat skill (quite a powerful one)
Hatate's spirit photo=real combat skill+scouting/invisible counter (still, 38 damage is not that much)
Hatate's ultimate=troll mobility(nice combat use but very long cooldown)+scouting

Momiji passive=real combat ability
Momiji's wolves= nice combat ability early game (but pretty much useless in team fights)+scouting
Momiji's far sight= pure scouting
Momiji's stun= real combat ability
Momiji's ultimate= real combat ability+mobility (she is not that much mobile compared to other tengus)

Now compare them to some other girls

Nazrin's passive= extra gold (that mouse can get those points hidden under creeps)
Nazrin's rush= little mobility but also low cooldown
Nazrin's passive= real combat skill (much more powerful than attack speed, cause its a different multiplier)
Nazrin's guard pendulum= real combat skill (One of  the most powerful non-ultimate skills, both defensive and offensive)
Nazrin's ultimate=real combat skill+scouting+more gold

Flandre's passive=real combat ability
Flandre's clones=real combat ability
Flandre's lavatein=real combat ability
Flandre's lifesteal=real combat ability
Flandre's ultimate=real combat ability

Also, true damage is not that important when you are attacking squishies.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 04:54:42 PM by eronar »

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #327 on: June 10, 2011, 05:03:12 PM »
Oh i see now that ive proven your other points wrong you changed arguments entirely, in dots mobility is a huge factor and allows more then just "real combat ability": allows escape and chase for kills. both nazrin and flandre have an escape but neither of them are 100%. yet again if you escape you dont lose out on any farming. and saying true damage isnt a factor is yet again dead wrong, girls like reimu or other high armour buffs mean nothing to aya/hatate with there aspd/pure/passive proc. while either flandre and nazrin either have to follow and hope not to get ganked or run away. idk if your trying to compare damage or what but having both high dps and mobility means you can pretty much be anywhere and still get farmed/kills

Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #328 on: June 10, 2011, 05:12:17 PM »
true damage is always relevant, because any bit of armor will lower your dps elsewise.

the reason why aya is considered so op is because she has high damage, fast scaling, and high mobility. Being mobile means being able to gank more often, and avoid ganks.
Specifically, her rush is extremely long range (2100 at level 4, just level 2 is enough to escape from anything), her F adds a huge amount of damage (it's like +67 pure damage, against a hero that has maybe 7 armor, that's the equivalent of over 100 physical attack), and her R deals spell damage and scales very well with her agility. Her C means she can avoid being slowed while chasing someone, or can escape even if slowed. She carries as hard as she does because she has a lot of additional damage that ignores armor, and has enough mobility to get in out of any situation.

Aya is going to end up farming better than most other carries, as the benefits of a kill don't usually outweigh the detriment of dying, which she can avoid.


But really ero, if you want to discuss this, go on irc. I understand where you're coming from, but you're picturing these girls in some sort of 1v1 deathmatch, rather than the context of a longer game.
Edit: specifically, irc because it's easier to discuss these things on irc then on a forum
« Last Edit: June 10, 2011, 05:19:29 PM by Panda NEETori »

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Re: [WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II
« Reply #329 on: June 10, 2011, 05:18:51 PM »
Obviously I'm the one who voted Eiki, I don't actually expect anyone to ban her, I just fucking hate everything about her. :V

Did getting that crit passive really make Momiji that good? The wolves aren't a deadly threat by themselves and Momiji herself you can see coming, I don't recall ever being in a game where I was scared of her; she can't really burst out of nowhere and fuck you up like some other agi girls. I think Nitori is much worse, if you're at half health she can just fly across the map from anywhere and murder you. Flying is a cute gimmick on Mystia, but Nitori's noclip is just bullshit. Same deal with Aya.