[WC3 - Dots] General discussion thread II

[Reverie]

balance in imbalance   :V
edit:
no. i dont want to argue.

[Dr Rawr]

Well trance i still hope you come by the channel for non-related dots fun, or if when ever you're in the mood for dots :3  :toot:

[Dular]

Murasa does some good ol' fashioned stomping, even to late game Aya, also intly antics.

Hakurei
Whitewish(Suwako)
Murasa(Dular)
DollS(Hina)
Herasy(Medicine)

Moriya
kactaplb(Meiling)
hero999(Aya)
Pesco(Eirin)
Sodium(Satori)


Disclaimer: Regardless of what I say, mean, smell, or what other people say, everything I say and/or type should be taken with a bit of salt, satire, or great hilarity at other peoples expense.

[trancehime]

Well trance i still hope you come by the channel for non-related dots fun, or if when ever you're in the mood for dots :3  :toot:

i doubt i'll ever play DotS again to be honest but thanks i guess.

[kactaplb]

hoho. so there was a thread.

i doubt i'll ever play DotS again to be honest but thanks i guess.

Sad to read hear it- it was your post/guide that led me to dots. And am I enjoying it. I certainly hope I don't end up so jaded.

Some fresh perspective, but for me, it's the opposite. Games like dota and lol have become so focused, that the matchups have become stale. Sure, they might be more fair, competitive and balanced,  but the process closes off choices. True balance means everything is the same-which is boring. But really, how fun is it to play your favorite girl in a rofllolspam ability fest? I should film myself playing this, really I can't stop laughing, even as murasa/DORMIO anchors me to my death. yamame spider SPAM. rin zombies on fire. yukari gap. hj is even better-minoriko potato lolheal. What other game can boast even a percentage of this? Don't mix things. Dota is dota. Dots is dots. Besides, is dots the type of game you want to be competitive at? Thought people flocked to the land of gensokyo for their waifus, not ego. dots. op. unfair. always fun if you make it so. wouldn't have it any other way.

anyways, give it a second...or third/fourth. chance~  Remember what made you like dots in the first place.

Plus, I'll feed you plenty if that isn't more incentive.

[Pesco]

You haven't fed me at all. Jerk :ohdear:

[trancehime]

Some fresh perspective, but for me, it's the opposite. Games like dota and lol have become so focused, that the matchups have become stale. Sure, they might be more fair, competitive and balanced,  but the process closes off choices.

I disagree.

Have something called "imagination." It'll get you places.

Not-so-subtle ad hominem aside, I can see where you're coming from. DotS does offer something "new" to the table. I'll respect that much. What I can't respect is that the game itself promotes a playstyle that is not conducive to why I found DotA/LoL/etc. enjoyable in the very first place. I started playing DotA because it was an addictive team game that required more skill than just being able to kill creeps, farm and destroy your opponent in that way. Sure, you can argue that DotS was intentionally made to be the way it is, but that's why I'd just rather play HJ DotS instead because that's actually hilarious. There is a clear difference between trying to be serious with a map and completely FAIL at it than to just throw it out all at once like what the HJ ver. devs did.

Don't mix things. Dota is dota. Dots is dots

Kind of hard not to do that when I've been playing DotA for over 6 years...

[Ace-Royale]

Eh... I'm going to be taking a break from gaming for a while, including DotS / IRC. School-related stuff and such, and it seems like I've been wasting too much time on the computer lately :/. It'll at least be a month before I come on again, so yeah~

Whatever, hopefully DotS will be a bit more balanced by the time I'm back

[Pesco]

Merlin the anti-carry tank :V

[attach=1]

Innate - Every 4 attacks will give her a bonus on the next attack it seems.
D - nuke with some small aggro enabler kind of thing.
F - Buffs damage and ms, debuffs mag res and armour. Castable on anyone
R - Passive HP regen boost based on HP remaining I think.
W - Damage return if it's damage from a target girl. Return percentage and duration increases per level.

[Rikter]

Hatate seems lame. Pics of skills included in attatchments.

D - BLINK
F - AoE Bunbun but doesn't seem to give pure damage
R - Attack speed buff of some sort
W - No clue what this does some buff?
C - Gained with ult Goes invincible then teleports back to fountain in 3 seconds.

Has something setting her MS to a value. I was stuck at 360 most of the game. Also her Cellphone kills things,

[ApharmdB]

Just saying, Merlin's max hp increases by 1 every time she kills something. It's part of her passive, besides the added dmg every 4 hits. Start last-hitting....

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

0.959c -> 0.9601a (FFFFFFFFFFF TROLLAN)

-A SHITLOAD OF BUG FIXES THAT I DON'T CARE ABOUT
-HP gained with STR reduced from 19 -> 18
-Hero base HP improved from 190 -> 220
-Creep bounty changed from 30~49 -> 40~45
-Super creep bounty changed from 15~30 -> 20~25
-Point item drop rate decreased from 20% -> 15%
-Creep EXP increases every 3 waves.
-Base assist bonus reduced from 150 -> 100
-Tower damage improved from 75 -> 100
-Hisoutensoku and Genji's HP regen improved from 8 -> 20
-Final towers now have a chance to stun.
-Total number of rune effects changed to 8.
-Runes are now refreshed every 2 minutes.

CHARACTER CHANGES
-Aya, Tenshi, Yamame, Kogasa and Minoriko can check effects by pressing 'Esc'.
-Marisa's Magicannon "Final Spark" cooldown reduced from 140/110/80 -> 100/85/70
-Flandre's model changed, range improved from 100 -> 130
-Flandre's Destruction "Core Breaker" bonus increased from 12.5% -> 15%
-NEW CHARACTER ADDED: MERLIN PRISMRIVER
-Yuyuko's base damage improved from 21~28 -> 22~28
-YUKARI MODERATE REVAMP
-Keine's Land Sign "Hidden Sacred Treasure - Headbutt" damage decreased from 120/155/190/225/260/295/330 -> 120/150/180/210/240/270/300
-Tewi's Rabbit Sign "Great Fortune Crest" bonus damage improved from 0.75/1.5/2.25/3% -> 1/2/3/4%
-Tewi's Runaway Rabbit "Fluster Escape" duration changed from 2/3/4/5 -> 1.5/3/4.5/6
-Tewi's Runaway Rabbit "Fluster Escape" adds a passive effect to Rabbit Sign "Great Fortune Crest" that reduces the enemy's armor by 2/3/4/5 (1 second)
-Tewi's "Lucky Inaba" activation chance improved from 36% -> 40%
-Tewi's "Lucky Inaba" damage absorbtion improved from 12/24/36% -> 13.3/26.7/40%
-KAGUYA MAJOR REVAMP
-Medicine's Confusion "Into Delirium" cooldown increased from 24/20/16 -> 120/100/80
-Shikieiki's Judgement "Last Judgement" no longer stuns allies.
-Shizuha's Autumn Sign "The Autumn Sky and a Maiden's Sleep" cooldown improved from 60 -> 60/55/50/45
-Aya's "Bunbunmaru" damage changed from 11/19/35/67 -> 15/27/46/67
-Aya's "Wind God Girl" allows"Wind God Girl" to be used for 2 seconds at level 1. (4 seconds at 2/3)
-Sanae gained an innate passive . Every 120 seconds Sanae gains 1 faith and she gains 2 faith for assists.
-Kanako's Rice Porridge in Tube "God's Rice Porridge" landing time reduced from 1.6/0.8/0.53/0.4 -> 1/0.5/0.33/0.25
-Kisume's Well Bucket "Flying in a Well" AGI modifier improved from 1/1.5/2/2.5 -> 1.2/1.8/2.4/3
-Kisume's (R) cooldown improved from 16 -> 14
-Kisume's (R) damage reduction improved from 6/9/12/15% -> 7/10.5/14/17.5%
-Kisume's (R) damage duration changed from 120/180/240/300 -> 120+AGI*1.2/180+AGI*1.8/240+AGI*2.4/300+AGI*3
-Yuugi's Feat of Strength "Wind Blowing Down from Mt. Ooe" activation chance changed from 6/9/12/15% -> 5/10/10/15%
-Yuugi's Feat of Strength "Wind Blowing Down from Mt. Ooe" damage changed from 400 -> 300/350/400/450
-Kogasa gained a new passive. . Adds 1% aspd and 2 AGI under some condition, 30 charge max.
-Byakuren's Superhuman "Byakuren Hijiri" bonus reduced from 20/40/60 -> 15/30/45
-NEW CHARACTER ADDED: HATATE HIMEKAIDO

ITEM CHANGES
-Gum HP increase reduced from 250 -> 230
-ZUN Hat HP increase reduced from 180 -> 170
-Recipes requiring the above two items have also had HP bonuses reduced.
-Heaven Peach aspd bonus reduced from 25/12.5% -> 20/10%
-Lover Card heal amount reduced from 225 -> 210
-Stopwatch MP cost removed.

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

SOME INFORMATION ABOUT THE NEW CHARACTERS.

Hatate Himekaido. Ranged hero.
D - Blink skill, passive effect of adding movement speed.
F - AoE Bunbunmaru effect.
R - Attack speed increases for a short time as if she were insane.
W - Share vision with an enemy. At level 2 gain aerial view. Something about portals.

Merlin Prismriver. 150 Mid range hero.
Innate passive - every 4 attacks she deals an additional 4% of her max HP as bonus damage. Every time she kills something, she gains 1 max HP.
D - Bonus damage and terror effect. (deals double damage during terror)
F - Increases aspd/ms, reduces armor, bonus damage % on(for?) target.
R - something to do with her HP ratio, all allies around her and herself gains 2 something.
W - Bonus AoE damage when she kills something.Reflect damage.

[trancehime]

Just saying, Merlin's max hp increases by 1 every time she kills something. It's part of her passive, besides the added dmg every 4 hits. Start last-hitting....

yeah and you need like 200~500 last hits for it to make a difference.

good luck getting that kind of cs in DotS! huhuhuhuhuhuhhuhuhu

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

Her D and S seems really good for farming, though.

[trancehime]

Her D and S seems really good for farming, though.

somebody should try

you know my stance on the game...

[Dormio Ergo Sum]

I would have thought that you'd hate Merlin.
Considering how, you know, she's pretty much the epitome of SOLO FARM TO WIN.

Either way, I can't wait until this weekend.
DotS new version coinciding with HELL WEEKS OVER? Hell yes.

[Dular]

Thoughts on Merlin:

She is a troll.  She appears to regen hp based on how much hp she is missing and the aggro skill can really ruin peoples day.  Designed to be part siege due to her 3rd skill massive hp regen it seems.  People put too much emphasis on her innate max hp, but with my best thoughts, at best in an hour long game, I could come up with about 250 bonus hp.  And if you have 250 kills from creeps, your thought isn't on your bonus 250 hp, it's the fact that you probably have almost all your items.  In a typical hour long game?  100, 150 if you put in farming time and last hit/deny like a boss.

Her troll skill can be semi-countered by furiously clicking, more obvious when you know it's coming, which is whenever she is on the screen.  Seriously, it'll be the first thing she does.  You can't run, but at least you won't go to the enemy side.  Cooldown could use a 3 second longer wait time, that'd be enough.

Her ult: I remember hearing that the Chinese prefer 1v1 and 2v2.  Well this hero will probably be banned as a result due to short cooldown.  Due to her strengthness, getting 2000hp early on is easy if you skimp on building a singular item.  Anti-carry, anti-gank, short cooldown.  Crazy useful and borders on hax.  Needs a longer cooldown in my opinion.  Like 60-80 seconds.  If you get ganked, this skill basically goes "You'll kill yourself before you kill me."  Flan is more likely to kill herself before she kills you late game.

Her 2nd skill is a weird one.  It makes enemies gain a lotta damage, attack speed, and movement speed, but they also lose like 10 armor at level 4.  Useful if you have a partner with disables or can easily outspeed them, or physical-heavy attackers, they'll love you for it.  You can also buff your allies with this if your confident they won't get hit or they need the boost to catch up.  This skill is especially dangerous on Youmu if you buff her before she makes Myon.  Quite evil, but also quite useless in just as many situations.  You could potentially skip this skill entirely.


Thoughts on Hatate:

I can see the potential, you can really see the newspaper reporter theme with her skills, which have some relation to Aya.  But her problem is the fact are her skills are basically 'where the enemy is.'  or 'Get outta/into dodge'  Her attack skill, AoE bunbunmaru, doesn't add as much damage and doesn't seem to be pure, so she has to rely entirely on items to do well, unlike most other agi carries who can kill a lot of creeps with just their skills.  I've heard the 'Like Aya' and it rings true, but Hatate, unlike Aya, can chase regardless if the hero blinks/dashes away, subdolls beforehand, and whatnot.  But unfortuantely, Hatate has a terrible strength growth and doesn't have blinking fury, and has to take a beating as a result.  But this is just rambling.

Basically, it feels like she is designed to pick off low hp heroes, and is 100% reliant on items for her killing ability.  But maybe she isn't supposed to kill early game.  Maybe she is supposed to stay back and almost hide while trying to farm faster than everyone else, so she can start participating.  But what do I know, eh?

[trancehime]

I would have thought that you'd hate Merlin.
Considering how, you know, she's pretty much the epitome of SOLO FARM TO WIN.

i'll probably start bitching and moaning about her once i've actually seen her in practice to be honest.

but that's not happening since ~*~i'm not playing~*~

[Ace-Royale]

Why do you hate me so, ojou-sama?! T.T I curse you and your chains of miserable fate~

*Morale Break*

[Stuffman]

Right now Hatate seems like the most mobile friggin character in the game. AGI character with ranged attack with an instant animation and an instant blink and ability that extends sight and an invincible teleport if she actually does get in trouble, I couldn't chase her down even as Nazrin.

Hardest carry in the game apparently :V

[CloverNaght]

not that strong in late game compared to other agi because in late game almost any carries got max aspd imo
but yeah at early-midlate game she is really scary

[Rikter]

3 Carrys vs 2 Anti carrys this can only end well. Game lasts an hour and a half.

Hakurei
Rikter - Reimu
Sodium - Iku
rizock - Hatate
Magnaduelist - Koishi

Moriya
WiteWish - Sikieiki
DollS - Merlin
Stuffman - Nazrin
BrownBeta - Patchouli

[Dular]

Right now Hatate seems like the most mobile friggin character in the game. AGI character with ranged attack with an instant animation and an instant blink and ability that extends sight and an invincible teleport if she actually does get in trouble, I couldn't chase her down even as Nazrin.

Hardest carry in the game apparently :V

None more mobile than Aya.  Dash, blink, dash and your at the other end of the map.

[Helepolis]

All right, hear hear you people:  Kogasa, Yukari, Kaguya skills are all translated on wiki.

Tl dr;  Yukari border invul/silence gone -> became single creep drop.  F gap away nerfed in CD.
Kogasa -> passive,  using her W succesful = ++stats (see wiki for exact info)
Kaguya -> major changes, read wiki :V

Merlin is a bitch and Hatate is awesome.

[Dular]

DOTS 6.61 .96b is out!  And they went "Woah, we kinda messed up on Kaguya!"

BUG FIXES!
Fixed Kaguya's plant unlimited duration.
Fixed a bug with Kaguya's tree planting skill that would destroy the tree if she had a mini hakkero
Fixed a bug with Rumia's "?Is that so?" that gave it an incorrect cooldown
Fixed some incorrect descriptions
Fixed some bugs with runes not giving their described effects
Fixed a bug that scaled the damage of Sakuya's Time-stopping Knife with her intelligence stat by an extra 0.25%


Some skill icons have changed.
The nothing rune should be working once again.


SKILL AND OTHER STUFF CHANGES
Marisa base armor 0->2
Time Sign 'Sakuya's Special Stopwatch' agility increase 4->3.6
Buriallusion Phantasmic Killer agility increase 6.5->6.0
Shanghai Dolls Assault Mode duration 12->10
Merlin's Spirit of Clifford cooldown 9->10
Yuyuko base damage 22-28 to 22-29(whoopee)
Kaguya revive skill 15%mp+200 to 25%mp+200
Kaguya Impossible Request cooldown 75->120
Kaguya Impossible Request cost 300-500-700 to 500-800-1100
Kaguya Impossible Request health 600/900/1200 to 400/600/800
Kaguya Impossible Request Damage Reflection 10/20/30%  to 7/14/21%
Kaguya Impossible Request Health Regeneration 8/16/24 to 5/10/15
Kaguya Impossible Request now floats 300 from 400 around her.
Kaguya Impossible Request Area of Effect 800 to 600
Sanae's Esoterica Forgotten Ritual mana regen 50->30
Sanae's Divine Virtue mana cost 125/175/250 to 200/300/400
Iku Light Dragon Sigh 85/90/95/100 -> 60/80/100/120
Kisume Burning Ring of Fire base protection 120/180/240/300 -> 100/150/200/250
Kisume Burning Ring of Fire scale protection x1.2/1.8/2.4/3.0 -> x1.0/1.5/2.0/2.5
Hatate Far Sightedness Tengu Psychography cooldown 90/75/60 ​​-> 180/150/120
Utusho?s ?Hell?s Artificial Sun??s gravity effect reduced by a factor of 5
*Stolen from Apharm.  Mwahaha*

[ApharmdB]

Well the "0.???a" maps are usually quite short-lived. 0.961b is out - http://www.mediafire.com/?p162j3by6dhbv90

Warning - choo choo i'm a train

Whoops, looks like Dular already pasted the changes from IRC. I only have the following to add then...

Utusho?s ?Hell?s Artificial Sun??s gravity effect reduced by a factor of 5

[Ace-Royale]

Hatate seems like an amazing carry:  blink, extra damage (is it pure?), and with lol aspd, you can just stack proc items, rambo in with that blink, (cast adamantine for good measure even if it sucks even more with that hp nerf) pick off their carry, proceed to tele back to base, and push 4v3.

I'm just theorycrafting, of course.

[PX]

Actually, that's exactly what happens with Hatate.

[CloverNaght]

Hatate seems like an amazing carry:  blink, extra damage (is it pure?), and with lol aspd, you can just stack proc items, rambo in with that blink, (cast adamantine for good measure even if it sucks even more with that hp nerf) pick off their carry, proceed to tele back to base, and push 4v3.

I'm just theorycrafting, of course.

y know fuzzy wuzzieh?give him blink dagger ranged attacks and loltelehome...u got hatate