Author Topic: Lesson #1  (Read 10639 times)

Cirno

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Lesson #1
« on: April 21, 2009, 07:47:28 AM »
We'll start out simple:



As you should already know, this is the formula used to deal with simple particle tunneling. Really, it's common knowledge. However, I have provided it here in case you are one of those anti-erudites who failed out of elementary school.

The question is simple:

Marisa has a great big wall of stars in front of her. Alice is trying to shoot through it with her laser. Her laser is at 4.7 power. The wall of stars is composed entirely of the big stars - one star thick, but they are close enough together that nothing can get through them.

Shanghai had a cold yesterday, but she seems to be getting over it.

Marisa dropped her hat earlier in the battle and now her head is kind of cold.

Alice really just wants to give Marisa a hug but she's being all tsundere about it.

It's Wednesday. Ash Wednesday to be exact.

What is the probability of Alice's laser penetrating Marisa's eldritch barrier? And what will be the consequences if Marisa is nailed with entirety of Alice's fiery temper powered magical load?

This is ostensibly an open book exam, but I don't think any notes will help you. Good luck.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2009, 04:36:53 PM by Letty Whiterock »

Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #1 on: April 21, 2009, 07:51:43 AM »
Quote
This is ostensibly an open book exam, but I don't think any notes will help you.

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2009, 08:01:32 AM »
Hi, I don't think you are Cirno, proof or GTFO
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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2009, 08:03:47 AM »

♛ Apher-Forte

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2009, 08:09:24 AM »
IMPOSSIBLE!

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2009, 08:26:05 AM »
What is the probability of Alice's laser penetrating Marisa's eldritch barrier? And what will be the consequences if Marisa is nailed with entirety of Alice's firey temper powered magical load?
I am going to answer with: 0 because there are no buses in Gen- *gapped in train*

Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #6 on: April 21, 2009, 08:31:36 AM »
sorry, I couldn't calculate and provide the answer, but I've gathered some elements that might help one elaborate a formula that might bring someone closer to an approximate result..

- A is the stars' average resistance (it may sometimes be stronger than edible danmaku)
- B is the atmosphere's pressure (it's supposed to affect the stars and lasers' speed; also, humans such as Marisa are much more vulnerable to cold than youkai magicians)
- C is the environment's temperature (their attacks might be blotting out the sun)
- D is the amount of time the fight has been going on (knowing that, as mentioned before, Marisa is more vulnerable to cold, Alice should aim to tire her out -- a.k.a. turtle her way to victory --, while Marisa should aim for a faster conclusion)
- E is the amount of magical energy Marisa's using on that spellcard
- F is the amount of magical energy Alice's using on her attack
- G is the remainder of Marisa's magical energy
- H is the remainder of Alice's magical energy (not factoring in the dolls' arsenal, since some of them were found in other occasions to contain powder -- like in SA)
- I is Shanghai's current temperature
- J is the angle at which Alice's laser is attacking the circle (Alice has these options: attacking Marisa through the star belt, which means attacking the star belt through it's weakest spot, should the belt be rotating around Marisa; attacking the star belt at its tangent to either weaken it or to cause some imbalance, hoping to create a weak point in it; moving to another position where either Alice can attack Marisa directly, or snipe her; simply wait until Marisa's protective barrier is timed out)
- K is Marisa's current stamina
- L is Alice's current stamina

there are other things that could factor into this formula, like Marisa having some offense plan (like baiting Alice into firing her laser, and then blinding her or Spark her to take advantage of the lesser reaction time, or summoning a laser from under Alice; or bombing, then taking advantage of the invulnerability time to smack Alice with her broom; or using some uncommon resources/elements that she happened to come across; or she might choose to defeat her dolls first) and them using the environment to their advantage..
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Translations.
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Prody

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #7 on: April 21, 2009, 12:06:18 PM »
Zero.

Because there are no buses in.. oh wait.
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Benny1

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2009, 01:49:44 PM »
Let's see, so Shanghai just had a cold?  That means Alice is using Hourai today, and Hourai is stronger, take that into account.

It's Ash Wednesday, but we're in Japan so nobody cares.  It is Wednesday though, so everybody is at their peak, because Wednesday is the middle of the week.

Now, assume each star needs X amount of damage to be broken through.  Since it's 1 star thick, but they're big stars, x is obviously an enormous number.

Alice's lasers are weak, even at 4.7 power.  We all know she relies on Malice Cannon to not be the worst character ever conceived, so take that into account!

Now, Marisa dropped her hat, which will just make her more mad, even if her head is colder, so the stars increase in power.  This means it's like 2x to break through a star, which is indeed a huge difference.

Alice is being tsundere, so her power is actually lower.  Like 4.5.  This is probably a good thing for Marisa.

Tsundere does last for a long time though, but if you look at Alice's hourai beam in IaMP, where imaginably she was doing quite well because she was very well fed, it's really not that long of an attack.  Let's say a star has 75 HP normally, so it has 150 now.  I think this is reasonable with Marisa's familiars in her IN attacks.

I will take 4.5 to mean damage per second, each hourai beam lasts two seconds.  She can have up to 9 power bars, going by IaMP's rules, and maybe she has a secret spellcard hiding that can do 20 damage.

Unfortunately, since Marisa lost her hat, there is a 0% chance that Alice will win.

But wait!  Let's say there is a 30% chance that Reimu will stumble upon this battle.  There is also a 75% chance that Reimu is mad at Marisa and would rather help Alice than Marisa.  Therefore, Reimu will obviously put the hat back on and suddenly, Marisa will eat laser.  26 damage if the secret spellcard is used, 6 if not.

The consequences are probably pretty small.  Alice will feel bad and make up for it anyways, so what does it matter?  But in the end, a 22.5% chance of her winning isn't bad.  Yay.

Alice

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2009, 03:14:13 PM »
It is DIFFICULT. ⑨

FinnKaenbyou

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #10 on: April 21, 2009, 03:44:36 PM »
This question gives incomplete information. If the wall of stars is being created through normal magic it is immaterial and thus Alice will penetrate it with a 100% probability. If it's from a spellcard - say, Stardust Reverie - then the odds of Alice penetrating are zero as the card will absorb the laser well before it comes close to Marisa.

As for consequences in terms of damage, again we have incomplete information - are we running from the Parker-Clinton-Boule theory, or the Immanuel-Nicholson theory? For Parker-Clinton-Boule, Marisa can be expected to suffer immediate death if the laser connects, while for Immanuel-Nicholson she will survive for several seconds before showing any sign of difficulty.

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Gpop

Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2009, 04:05:17 PM »
Answer is 9.

Because I fucking said so.

Moogy

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #12 on: April 21, 2009, 04:17:08 PM »
firey
learn to fucking spell question invalid

Letty Whiterock

Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #13 on: April 21, 2009, 04:37:06 PM »
learn to fucking spell question invalid
revalidated

Young Demon Lord

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #14 on: April 21, 2009, 05:39:06 PM »
What is the probability of Alice's laser penetrating Marisa's eldritch barrier? And what will be the consequences if Marisa is nailed with entirety of Alice's fiery temper powered magical load?

The answer is, the answer is, zero chance, zero chance.
That's because, that's because...
Alice isn't the one with the Master Spark!
An array of angled lasers and bubble waves.
The only problem is that your hitbox is so small....

Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #15 on: April 21, 2009, 06:02:07 PM »
quantum mechanics
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Demonlord Pichu

Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #16 on: April 21, 2009, 06:12:40 PM »
You say Marisa dropped her hat? That means her power's been subtracted because everyone knows (most) Touhous can't function properly with those silly hats/hair ornaments.

And Alice is being tsundere about something? Hmm~

Final Answer: 10.8% chance of penatrating (shut up) the barrier and if it does get through the damage would most likely be minimal.

Is this wrong? Of course it is, would you expect anything less from someone who sucks at this sorta subject?

Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #17 on: April 21, 2009, 07:22:07 PM »
Quote
It's Ash Wednesday, but we're in Japan so nobody cares.  It is Wednesday though, so everybody is at their peak, because Wednesday is the middle of the week.

We can safely rule out the fact that it's wednesday, since both person's power increases in an equal amount. This has no real bearing, since 256x = 256x and x = x are really no different when factoring a power to power conclusion. This will play a major role if either of them get hit by the attacks and we can expect one person to fall out immediately, however we're looking for the chance Alice's attack would hit in the first place, not the damage.

Quote
Alice's lasers are weak, even at 4.7 power.  We all know she relies on Malice Cannon to not be the worst character ever conceived, so take that into account!

We also have to take into account what the Max power is. If we're running from the standard 5.00 Scale, then most likely Alice is already at full power, but will need one more in order to get a free bomb without losing a doll. However, from SA, we know her power under Marisa's use can reach up to 8.00, which means while he main shot is still weak, her basic shot has more power than normal, since she's not focusing more than her maximum power into the Main shots. This is, however also failing to take into account what Alice's Maximum power truly is. We can't assume it stops at 8 because Marisa may not have been use to using dolls. Remember, the most options anyone uses is usually four, but Alice is using upwards of a dozen dolls at once.

Quote
Alice is being tsundere, so her power is actually lower.  Like 4.5.  This is probably a good thing for Marisa.

I forgot to address this above, but if we could determine if Alice had a gift or not, this could be combined with the fact that it's Ash Wednesday to increase her Tsundere. This is especially true since they don't celebrate Ash wednesday, and even if they did, who gives Gifts on that day anyway? This could potentially make Alice more determined to win and hide away that she brought a gift in the first place for such a stupid reason, only to get attacked.

Teacher! o/
Did Alice bring a Gift to Marisa?

Quote
But wait!  Let's say there is a 30% chance that Reimu will stumble upon this battle.
Irrelevant. Reimu never goes out on holiday. Even ones Gensokyo doesn't celebrate.

as far as I can tell, Alice's chance to penetrate is, at a 5.00 scale power, 27.3%, scaling down by 1.2% for every max power above, which taken at 8.00 would be 23.7%

If the gift is involved, the chance increases slightly, but I'll wait for an answer to my question to see if I have to calculate it. It's hard working with the principals of Tsundere.

KumaKinko

Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #18 on: April 21, 2009, 08:27:02 PM »
Alice doesn't NEED to pierce any stars! spell card law says that all danmaku must be doge-able, so Alice just needs to find the gap and shoot through there.

and, according to MegaMari, Alice's laser is a piercing weapon and would just go right through the stars anyways.

E-Nazrin

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2009, 08:51:52 PM »
Just to note, this is the best thread ever.
There was something here once. Wonder what...

Alice

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #20 on: April 21, 2009, 09:22:22 PM »
Alice will di everything to bring back Marisa's hat like in Marisa and Alice. Besides, Alice didn't need to go through wall of stars in the first place, she could go to Hakurei Shrine backyard and start to pound 5 inches nail into Marisa effigies. This should clear up the problem.

Gpop

Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #21 on: April 21, 2009, 09:26:28 PM »
Everyone's over-analyzing this.

I'm telling you it's 9. It's always 9.

Alice

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #22 on: April 21, 2009, 09:27:44 PM »
Everyone's over-analyzing this.

I'm telling you it's 9. It's always 9.
Only Cirno or persons that have same idiocy level as Cirno would answer 9.

Slaves

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #23 on: April 21, 2009, 11:02:55 PM »
I cannot comprehend

Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #24 on: April 21, 2009, 11:14:46 PM »
I cannot comprehend
says the guy with the Suwako is Suwako's Hat's Hat avatar.

Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #25 on: April 21, 2009, 11:22:06 PM »
i also cannot comprehend.
so i get an award?

Slaves

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2009, 12:01:11 AM »
i also cannot comprehend.
so i get an award?

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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2009, 01:43:34 AM »
The answer is definitely (9). (9) ties. A tie.
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Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2009, 03:09:56 AM »
Quote
Cirno
Quote
Idiot Maiden


Re: Lesson #1
« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2009, 09:05:17 AM »
This exam would actually be feasible if we had field notes/experimental data on:

The kinetic and potential energy and mass of Alice's laser particles
The kinetic and potential energy, as well as length, of Marisa's Eldritch Barrier

To Genskyo, for field work!