JmLyan's Project: Extra Bosses

[JmLyan]

I am currently making extra bosses in danmakufu. So far, Patchouli and a teamup of Reimu and Marisa have been done. My Komachi extra boss is next and soon done, but after that I have nothing planned so any suggestions are highly welcome.

Patchouli Knowledge: http://www.mediafire.com/?wd6l5j2t0abhps4 (Has way too many much additive bullets)

Reimu & Marisa: http://www.mediafire.com/?chukc1i70hs0hwf

Minoriko Aki(ph3): http://www.mediafire.com/?yhw2t7l7cujsg8d

[Hyouga Kazu]

You might want to hand over StageFunctions.dnh or include it in the boss folder itself.

Rather, read the tutorial on relative paths.


EDIT: It's still missing some file or another. PatchouliSpell03Familiar.dnh is what it's called.
EDIT: You have absolute paths leading to this file twice.

[JmLyan]

Modified it so that Stage Functions and the like are in the boss folder.

EDIT: It's still missing some file or another. PatchouliSpell03Familiar.dnh is what it's called.

That one shouldn't be missing. I have double checked and it is included in the boss folder.

[Hyouga Kazu]

Check the second edit. (I edited it while you were posting :V)

Okay, review!

Non-spell 1
This one was quite fast, but it was nice. It led the player to one side though, you might want to make the directions of the bullet streams alternate.

Burning Leaf Storm
The fireballs were nice, a little on the fast side but keep it that way, just reduce the speed and/or amount of the random bullets. They make this spellcard nearly impossible.

Non-spell 2
WHOA! Huge rings! Might want to give the player some more time to prepare here. That, or reduce the ring size. They were huge.
Other than that, nice non-spell, don't change too much on this one.

Border of Day and Night
The dodging area is pretty small. That, and glowing bullets that are hard to see in the stream of bullets fired by the player.

Non-spell 3
Hokay, it's an attack on my sanity. I like this one.

Element Fury
After getting this to work, what do I see? Randomness + multi-angle micrododging. Bad combination overall.
I do like the idea behind the spellcard, but make dodging the circles a little more reasonable please.

Non-spell 4
Your non-spells seem to be fine most of the time.

Raging Ammy
The lasers appear too fast. If one spawns on top of the player, it's instant kill. And those glowing bullets again... I can't even see what I'm hit by most of the time.

Non-spell 5
I fail to see the point of this attack. The rings seem to appear randomly and crash into you with 5 at a time sometimes, blocking all ways to get through.

Phase Shift
I had some trouble getting through the ring of aqua fireballs that appear at the shift. This one is actually really good.

Non-spell 6
What the?! Aah! How is anyone supposed to dodge this? I don't see any way to get through alive with her dashing all over the place.

Earthquake Stones
The 'stones' jump around the place, creating a lot of small bullets that just seem to freeze and fall down out of nowhere. You should make this less random.

Non-spell 7
Another fine non-spell. It's just a little too easy, seeing how difficult the previous ones were.

Waterlily Season
Two things: too many bullets. And they gloooow. :derp:

Non-spell 8
Again, pretty nice for a non-spell.

Silver Star
Impossible. *Reaches for the I key*
The small bullets are too dense, you can't get through them except for when you're really lucky.

Spell Marathon
Too long, didn't bother.  :V
Seriously, it's too long. The first phase has lasers spawning too fast. The second phase has a bullet spawning laser coming too close for me to feel comfortable. Third phase, too much fast-paced randomness. Fourth phase, too much of everything. Fifth phase has a small dodging area and too fast horizontal movement. Sixth phase, impossible. The lasers spawn too fast after one another and the center spinner spins too fast to keep up with without running into one of the laser webs. Seventh phase is the only one I really like, partially because of the UFO extra boss reference.

Ancient Danmaku Art
Too much randomness. Can't say anything else about it.


In short, less randomness, more toning down. The patterns are good, but the difficulty is too high for Extra in most cases.

[JmLyan]

Non-spell 1
This one was quite fast, but it was nice. It led the player to one side though, you might want to make the directions of the bullet streams alternate.

I'll consider alternating the directions of the streams.

Burning Leaf Storm
The fireballs were nice, a little on the fast side but keep it that way, just reduce the speed and/or amount of the random bullets. They make this spellcard nearly impossible.

I'll go for speed reduction. But I probably won't change it that much because it already is one of the easiest Spellcards.

Non-spell 2
WHOA! Huge rings! Might want to give the player some more time to prepare here. That, or reduce the ring size. They were huge.
Other than that, nice non-spell, don't change too much on this one.

I really think this is the easiest among both non-spells and Spellcards and probably will leave it as it is.

Border of Day and Night
The dodging area is pretty small. That, and glowing bullets that are hard to see in the stream of bullets fired by the player.

The only Spellcard I have captured. It was pure luck though so I'll widen the dodgin area.

Non-spell 3
Hokay, it's an attack on my sanity. I like this one.

I always fail really badly at this one...

Element Fury
After getting this to work, what do I see? Randomness + multi-angle micrododging. Bad combination overall.
I do like the idea behind the spellcard, but make dodging the circles a little more reasonable please.

I'll try reworking that one a bit.

Non-spell 4
Your non-spells seem to be fine most of the time.

Thanks.

Raging Ammy
The lasers appear too fast. If one spawns on top of the player, it's instant kill. And those glowing bullets again... I can't even see what I'm hit by most of the time.

I tend to abuse glowing bullets, although those are fireballs and not glowing bullets. I'll increase the laser delay slightly.

Non-spell 5
I fail to see the point of this attack. The rings seem to appear randomly and crash into you with 5 at a time sometimes, blocking all ways to get through.

The interval between rings is indeed random. I'll probably make them appear slightly less frequent.

Phase Shift
I had some trouble getting through the ring of aqua fireballs that appear at the shift. This one is actually really good.

Thanks. It tends to be really mean sometimes and keep the same direction several times though and that usually kills you.

Non-spell 6
What the?! Aah! How is anyone supposed to dodge this? I don't see any way to get through alive with her dashing all over the place.

Easy when you know how to dodge it. Just stay close to Patchouli and move around unfocused and pass by the bullet streams with the largest gap as soon as you can. She moves at regular intervals so you can try to predict when she's going to move and be extra careful at those times.

Earthquake Stones
The 'stones' jump around the place, creating a lot of small bullets that just seem to freeze and fall down out of nowhere. You should make this less random.

My sister thinks this one is extremely easy. A slight paradox because I'm better at touhou than her but constantly fails at this Spellcard. I'll try to reduce the randomness but I am a random abuser.

Non-spell 7
Another fine non-spell. It's just a little too easy, seeing how difficult the previous ones were.

It isn't too hard I agree, but if the bubbles appear as the fastest type of bullet, you usually haven't got enough time to react so it can still kill you.

Waterlily Season
Two things: too many bullets. And they gloooow. :derp:

I'll reduce the amount definitively. It is WAY too hard. But glowing bullets will stay as an annoyance to anyone who uses Reimu A.

Non-spell 8
Again, pretty nice for a non-spell.

Thanks.

Silver Star
Impossible. *Reaches for the I key*
The small bullets are too dense, you can't get through them except for when you're really lucky.

It's quite strange that one of the few (if not the only one) that has absolutely no randomizing relies so much on luck. I'll make the bullets less dense.

Spell Marathon
Too long, didn't bother.  :V
Seriously, it's too long. The first phase has lasers spawning too fast. The second phase has a bullet spawning laser coming too close for me to feel comfortable. Third phase, too much fast-paced randomness. Fourth phase, too much of everything. Fifth phase has a small dodging area and too fast horizontal movement. Sixth phase, impossible. The lasers spawn too fast after one another and the center spinner spins too fast to keep up with without running into one of the laser webs. Seventh phase is the only one I really like, partially because of the UFO extra boss reference.

First phase: Luck. I'll increase delay yet again.

Second phase: Easy unless you're unlucky. It was about twice at dangerous when I first made it however.

Third phase: Again, luck. I'll increase the interval between bomb spawn.

Fourth phase: Another increase of spawn interval.

Fifth phase: Next to easiest of the phases, i find it very easy to dodge. I will probably not make it easier.

Sixth phase: PURE LUCK!!! I'll reduce the amount of stopping lasers but the spinning one is easy to dodge if you more or less follow the edges of the screen while unfocused.

Seventh phase: Way too easy, but danmakufu lags if I make it harder so it'll stay this way. But it isn't actually a Nue reference as I had only played against her once before making that pattern and had completely forgotten she had it. It made me laugh how much easier hers is when I played against her again.

EDIT: I'll shorten it a bit too. I know it is ridiculously long for a survival card.

Ancient Danmaku Art
Too much randomness. Can't say anything else about it.

Maybe a bit too hard considering its length. I'll again probably increase interval a tiny bit.

In short, less randomness, more toning down.

As I said, I am a random abuser. Any time a pattern ends up having a safe spot or is way too easy, I tend to randomize it a bit. I'll try to compensate for the heavy randomness in some way or another.

 

The patterns are good, but the difficulty is too high for Extra in most cases.

Maybe better of as a phantasm boss?

EDIT: Removed the absolute file paths. Sorry for missing those.

EDIT: I have tweaked the spellcards and attacks a little bit now so it shouldn't be as hard.

[Hyouga Kazu]

I tend to abuse glowing bullets, although those are fireballs and not glowing bullets.

Fireballs have an additive blending, so they act pretty much the same.

Easy when you know how to dodge it. Just stay close to Patchouli and move around unfocused and pass by the bullet streams with the largest gap as soon as you can. She moves at regular intervals so you can try to predict when she's going to move and be extra careful at those times.

It should be dodge-able with less cheap methods. Anyway, with movement still being random she can still screw you if you're unlucky.

Sixth phase: PURE LUCK!!! I'll reduce the amount of stopping lasers but the spinning one is easy to dodge if you more or less follow the edges of the screen while unfocused.

Spell cards shouldn't be based on luck though. ^^'

As I said, I am a random abuser. Any time a pattern ends up having a safe spot or is way too easy, I tend to randomize it a bit. I'll try to compensate for the heavy randomness in some way or another.

You see that a lot. Many people tend to over-randomize. If a pattern fails, instead of randomizing it, look for other ways to make it better. Doesn't mean all randomization is wrong though. I use it as well, usually in enemy movement, and it adds that little bit of extra challenge to otherwise easy attacks. Using it too much is bad though.

One last question, do you mind if I edit it a bit? Don't worry, I won't release it as my script but I might show it to you.  :V

[JmLyan]

Fireballs have an additive blending, so they act pretty much the same.

I know, but fireballs are actually slightly easier to see.

It should be dodge-able with less cheap methods. Anyway, with movement still being random she can still screw you if you're unlucky.

Yes, she can screw you up but not as easy as most other spellcards.

Spell cards shouldn't be based on luck though. ^^'

Hopefully it isn't that much pure luck now. Still a bit luck based though.

You see that a lot. Many people tend to over-randomize. If a pattern fails, instead of randomizing it, look for other ways to make it better. Doesn't mean all randomization is wrong though. I use it as well, usually in enemy movement, and it adds that little bit of extra challenge to otherwise easy attacks. Using it too much is bad though.

I'll try some more nonrandom patterns in the future, but I like spirals and those are the type of patterns that usually have safespots unless you really put some work into them.

One last question, do you mind if I edit it a bit? Don't worry, I won't release it as my script but I might show it to you.  :V

Not at all! I'd be glad to see how the spellcards look from another point of view. My code's a bit messy though and I'm not a fan of comments because I can usually see what my stuff does most of the time.

[CK Crash]

Add a number like 7.7 or 17.3 to your spiral's angle each shot to prevent easily abused sweetspots. Or, just have enemy movement and aimed bullets :V

[JmLyan]

Enemy movement tend to break spirals unless you implement breaks in the patterns though.

[Hyouga Kazu]

So you shouldn't use enemy movement in combination with spirals.
There are a lot of other ways to make an attack harder yet less random.

[sumisumi]

I think the midspell where you have to go in close is really cool.  She always moves after the same amount of time, so if you plan when to go up you won't be run into.

The last midspell is awful, though.  The spinning lasers add nothing to it, and make it seem exceptionally garbage-y.

Border of Day Night makes lots of noise for the lasers, but the lasers don't do anything and are entirely unrelated to gameplay so it's pretty annoying.

Phase shift was a cool idea, but I can't help but think you could somehow use it in a more clever way? (maybe)  It also killed me tons.

Waterlily Season confused me.  The green bullets are leaves and they are set on fire at the center?  And the lasers are supposed to be.. something else?  Basically, it doesn't look like a 'Waterlily Season'.   (If that matters)

"Spell Marathon"  The danmaku is nice enough, but I'm too distracted by the fact that they are in a totally wrong order.  Really, I was pulling my hair out.

"Ancient Danmaku Art" ....  You pour salt on the wound by calling a random-crap spell 'art'.


....Ah, these are mostly complaints.  Despite that, though, it's pretty fun.  Could use some toning down, and since I'm getting tired of patchouli extra bosses, it could use a sperate character, but it's pretty good.

[JmLyan]

The last midspell is awful, though.  The spinning lasers add nothing to it, and make it seem exceptionally garbage-y.

Actually, the rings are spawned from the laser ends, but it might not seem that way because of the constant spinning of the lasers.

Border of Day Night makes lots of noise for the lasers, but the lasers don't do anything and are entirely unrelated to gameplay so it's pretty annoying.

It actually affects gameplay if you're stupid enough to not stand in the middle, which you actually might do the first time you see the card.

Phase shift was a cool idea, but I can't help but think you could somehow use it in a more clever way? (maybe)  It also killed me tons.

I think it's good enough.

Waterlily Season confused me.  The green bullets are leaves and they are set on fire at the center?  And the lasers are supposed to be.. something else?  Basically, it doesn't look like a 'Waterlily Season'.   (If that matters)

The lasers are meant to be water, the green bullets are leaves and the red bullets are the flower which are actually supposed to be pink, but there are no pink bullets. Still it's just a name and I know my Spellcard names aren't exactly the best.

"Spell Marathon"  The danmaku is nice enough, but I'm too distracted by the fact that they are in a totally wrong order.  Really, I was pulling my hair out.

I had already made the entire card before considering that there should be a specific order and decided that my code was too messy to do anything about it.

"Ancient Danmaku Art" ....  You pour salt on the wound by calling a random-crap spell 'art'.

I was actually refering to Art as in the art of using danmaku rather than art as in something being beautiful. Still, it's just a name.

....Ah, these are mostly complaints.  Despite that, though, it's pretty fun.  Could use some toning down, and since I'm getting tired of patchouli extra bosses, it could use a sperate character, but it's pretty good.

I probably won't work anymore on it as I'm currently working on another extra boss (Komachi), the reason I started with Patchouli is simply because her danmaku is so varied and you can make just about anything and it will fit more or less. (And I do know it's hard, my record being 13 continues and all...)

[Chronojet ⚙ Dragon]

And I do know it's hard, my record being 13 continues and all...

Don't release a script until you can be sure it can be 1cc'd on the first try by a Normal mode player.


Hey Blargel, you're still the best!

Criticism incoming, just lemme play this script.

Most of them are OK, they're possible. But some of them I'll point out since they stand out.

The nonspells - when do they end!? Stop running away, Patchouli! I can't hit you when I use Marisa A!
Border of Day and Night - lol bad hitboxes. Never try this type of bullet again.
Raging Ammy - Sudden death by fireballs! Again!
The nonspell right after Raging Ama - Ok, you can stand in front of Patchouli and follow her movement.
The nonspell right after Phase Shift - Cannot follow Patchouli since she moves way too much.
The nonspell right after Earthquake Stones - Can get hit by the bullets while they are still invisible.
Waterlily - Why fireballs in a seemingly water-based spell card? Again, bad bad hitbox. Avoid using them.
Nonspell after Waterlily - NOOOOOOOOOOOOO. FUCK THIS. (presses H)
Ancient Water Sign "Frozen Waterfall" - HELL NO.
afwgearehfhjgj "Solar Web" - Lasers are always the wrong speed - I'm either too fast or too slow. Especially with Marisa A.
Danmaku Art - If this is art, my own scripts are one-hundred-twenty-eight-point-five-seven-one-four-two-eight percent (128.571428%) perfection.

Overall: Ok, so this is coming from a parttime Hard/Lunatic player. If this is Extra, I'd like to see how your Phantasms look like. Yeah. I do wonder how that would be possible. ... I'm trying not to think of stomping on your face right now.

[Yuyuko Yakumo]

Pretty fun, pretty scary extra boss. I loved the beautiful patterns you made with the bullets, but like everyone else has said, it's a bit excessive on randomness and luck. I won't go into specifics, but tone that part down a bit.

[JmLyan]

Don't release a script until you can be sure it can be 1cc'd on the first try by a Normal mode player.

It's hard for me to playtest since I am slightly below Normal myself. But I have played every Extra boss while having infinite lives so I was trying to mimic the difficulty of those.

Border of Day and Night - lol bad hitboxes. Never try this type of bullet again.

I will try not to use additive bullets where precision dodging is required.

The nonspell right after Earthquake Stones - Can get hit by the bullets while they are still invisible.

It would be absurdly easy if you couldn't get hit when they are, but they're not completely invisible.

Waterlily - Why fireballs in a seemingly water-based spell card? Again, bad bad hitbox. Avoid using them.

I answered this question above you know.

Ancient Water Sign "Frozen Waterfall" - HELL NO.

This just confuses me. This must surely be the easiest spellcard of them all except for the last part of the survival card.

"Solar Web" - Lasers are always the wrong speed - I'm either too fast or too slow. Especially with Marisa A.

Moving unfocused along the edges of the field makes it much easier.

Danmaku Art - If this is art, my own scripts are one-hundred-twenty-eight-point-five-seven-one-four-two-eight percent (128.571428%) perfection.

Again, answered above.

Overall: Ok, so this is coming from a parttime Hard/Lunatic player. If this is Extra, I'd like to see how your Phantasms look like. Yeah. I do wonder how that would be possible. ... I'm trying not to think of stomping on your face right now.

I'm working with my Komachi Extra boss right now and my goal is to only use random for the nonspell movement.

[Chronojet ⚙ Dragon]

A Komachi Extra boss, you say?

Please make it comparable to an actual Extra boss.
Seeing as I've actually cleared all the Touhou games' extras (aside from those that don't have one) and even made two or three, I should have at least a bit of experience with this. You can release previews and stuff for people to determine if a spell card is too broken or too easy, all that.

And again, additive-blending.

[JmLyan]

It is definitively easier than Patchouli so far, randomness is mostly what made Patchouli difficult.

[Chronojet ⚙ Dragon]

Randomness is not always what makes a boss difficult. Lemme find an example. This one person I really hate.

EDIT: Found. Turns out the person no longer exists. Probably got yelled at.

[JmLyan]

How on earth did you clear that? The patterns were just way too hard.

[Nyyl]

Pretty nice script there, especially for your first serious attempt at a boss. About the nonspells:
- Mewkyuu touched on this already, but the they are painfully long. The main attraction should be the spell cards, nonspells are just transition attacks. I recommend dropping the enemy's nonspell life, I'd dare say by even half.
- The nonspells alone aren't too difficult, but the dramatic amount of random movement added can create some Inescapable Danmaku Situations?. For instance, the big rings in nonspell 2 can sometimes trap you if patchy moves to the side too far

I liked most of the spell cards. Phase Shift was pretty well-designed, and Element Fury was fun. Some of them need a little more preparation time, though. I don't know about everyone else but Silver Star really caught me off guard with its insta-laser  :derp:

Anyway that's my input. Nice job overall, just needs some tweaking.

[JmLyan]

I'll reduce the nonspell length slightly, but some actual touhou nonspells are really long (the one where Kanako becomes invincible when shooting for example).

EDIT: Updated with 20% less life for nonspells.

[Supreme Gamesmaster]

The Remilia and Kanako invincible nonspells are so long because they're their respective games' last nonspells. Normal nonspells definitely shouldn't exceed thirty seconds.

Phase Shift is interesting, and Ancient Danmaku Art is far too easy with far too little curve for a last EX spell. Besides that, everything I have to say has pretty much already been said.

[JmLyan]

Added Reimu & Marisa extra boss. As promised, it is much less random than Patchouli. Link in the first post.

[pokecatch]

holy smkoes, the last spell was derp to me
of course, says the player who can't take on cirno on the lunatic stage.

[Chronojet ⚙ Dragon]

Oh, damn. If it's too hard, it's too hard. I'll try getting a good replay. An acceptable one.
This is it. Final score: 27274095

Oh, and a bug: That "Last Spell" (not Last Word, whoever is getting this wrong somehow) can never be captured as it is treated by Danmakufu as a non-survival spell card (but since you are forced to time this card out...)

[JmLyan]

Whoops, was going to make the lastspell a nonsurvival at first but then I changed it and I must have forgotten making so that you can time it out.

EDIT: The Lastspell is a survival card now.

Oh, damn. If it's too hard, it's too hard. I'll try getting a good replay. An acceptable one.

How can you call it too hard when you only die twice?

[Chronojet ⚙ Dragon]

How can you call it too hard when you only die twice?

Well, if I have to play a script in my SERIOUS DODGING mode, it's too hard.
Otherwise, sure.

[JmLyan]

Finally bothered to finish a ph3 boss, Minoriko Aki. First post updated with download link.

[Ginko]

That's way too hard. Please try to make it at least a little pleasant for your testers ...