Author Topic: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER  (Read 120164 times)

PX

  • School Idol?
  • *
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1260 on: April 06, 2011, 04:51:56 AM »
God dammit NeoSerela

Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1261 on: April 06, 2011, 04:54:43 AM »
God dammit NeoSerela

He got a damned amazing death scene though.

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1262 on: April 06, 2011, 04:56:17 AM »
I pegged Zak a survivor when I asked him if he was a survivor  :(. Then I said we should kill Bard because he's probably a serial killer if he had vig powers.

No. next time someone claims to have a third party role, and then claims killing powers, WE KILL HIM.

Dormio, what exactly was your power? We were kind of relying on it.

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1263 on: April 06, 2011, 04:57:02 AM »
He was a roleblocker, for real. But Bard's power is to bypass roleblocks.
That and he's the radio spy. And he backups his team's powers, so he gets multiple night actions. >_>


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

PX

  • School Idol?
  • *
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1264 on: April 06, 2011, 05:01:03 AM »
Well, the first 6 hours were the best part of this game. 5 new posts every 5 minutes :V

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1265 on: April 06, 2011, 05:01:41 AM »
The Good

Affinity  -  Vanilla Townie.  Honorary bodyguard for drawing the NK to himself N1 in lieu of any of the more powerful roles it could have hit.

capt. h  -  Vanilla Townie.  Ironic that the one doing so much role speculation didn't have a role himself.

Colt  -  Town Bodyguard.  One of the town's less powerful roles.  The Hitman shot would bypass it, leaving Colt unkilled and his ability ready for another shot.  Otherwise, if shot by NK or by UK, he'd block the shot but take a mortal wound, meaning that he'd be alive and voting for the following day, but would die alongside the day's lynch.  This meant that his ability didn't have any long-term effect on the raw Town vs Scum numbers, and was best used to protect pro-town, confirmed, or power roled townies.  His ability could still be decisive, though, either in LyLo with one scum left where he could buy time for the last lynch, or by protecting Zakeri and stopping scum from screwing themselves out of another day before LyLo (which almost happened).

Conqueror  -  Town Lawyer.  Another lesser role.  In its original form, would actually be verbose enough to skip the whole next night phase to give the confirmed townie a day in which to be guaranteed safe (and it was for this that the command was called #Fillibuster), but I decided that this was too powerful with everything else on the table.  At its best, his role could give the town an extra lynch, either by catching scum and taking it down with him, or else by giving scum strong incentive to kill the confirmed townie whose role was now public.  It's because scum could just immediately NK the target confirmed by this role that I don't deem it very powerful, although it could have some synergy with the Bodyguard.

Dormio  -  Town Paralyzer.  Could ##Prick another player by PM during the day.  The target would be roleblocked during the day without notification, and would then be notified upon the start of the nightphase that they were roleblocked.  Both these aspects were intended to make the role somewhat pro-scum.  First, scum had no day abilities whatsoever, so dayblocking could only hurt town.  Secondly, a town power role that was blocked isn't really helped by being told he's blocked, but if scum are blocked and notified, they can make sure they have someone else send in the NK.

Still, if scum were hit, it'd almost always inconvenience them by keeping them from using their full set of powers.  Due to Bardiche's role and to the fact that scum don't have to kill, it wouldn't ever really give a fullclear or confirmation.  Investigative roles are never to be completely trusted, and attempting to shoehorn a non-investigative role into a perfect cop is a shenanigan that ought to be thwarted often enough to make folks stop doing it.

Kilgamayan  -  Vanilla Townie.  I am so sorry you did not get a cooler role to go with the one you got last game.

Pescible4u  -  Town Biologist.  This is the role that has probably received the most scrutiny, and folks have called it both too strongly anti-town and too strongly anti-scum.  I believe it to be neither, nor even especially swingy, although I would still call it the game's strongest investigative role.

Because of Hourai, and because of his ability, inherited by Bardiche, that acted as an antiFramer, potentially as few as two scum could be vulnerable to the test at any one time, and only by having done enough good scumhunting to include those specific two in his pick of five could this role get a positive result.  If you're curious about the math, there was about a 25% of getting a positive result if shooting randomly, and that would fall to about 10% if Hourai's ability was used as an antiFramer - worse odds than a Cop can expect to have, and for less information.

Even with a positive result, there would be a few townies there (especially with the concern of a Miller) to make sure that the Town couldn't just lynch their way through the list.  So, it was definitely painful for scum to get hit by this, but the limited degree of certainty in targets was a proportionally reasonable payoff for the scumhunting required to get that result, and the role would get less and less effective as scum numbers dwindled.  It was at best a scumhunting aid, to steer the town in the right direction.

As far as hurting the town goes, I don't think anyone would call a Cop a liability to town just because scum has a Framer/Godfather.  Investigative results should always be taken with a grain of salt, and should never trump scumhunting.  If the town had gotten a misleading result, and then proceeded to take that result as the gospel, it would have deserved to lose for that mistake, just like letting a Godfather cruise through LyLo from a Cop check.

NeoSerela  -  Town Radio Operator.  A pretty fun role, although there never really was any secret information transferred to make use of.  NeoSerela's only part in things was picking who the two radios would go to in the Pregame phase (he could have kept one for himself if he had wanted, but this would have made his eavesdropping ability pointless).  If a player with a radio died, it would go to NeoSerela if he didn't have one, or else to the player who had last voted the dead radio holder, regardless of whether it was a lynch or a NK.  The reason that messages were only passed every 24 hours was so that no inferences about identity could be made based on timezones.

Also, while it's true that passing the radio took a night action, if a lone scum came into possession of a radio, he'd be informed that he could barely manage to pass it off to someone else on his way to the NK and it wouldn't use his night action.  An obvious rule patch to stop the town from confirming two of its number every day when one scum remained, but I wanted there to be a reason not to pass the radios for town, and I sure as hell wasn't going to allow them to exploit that to catch scum without hunting.

PX  -  Vanilla Townie.  Another one.  I wanted to include enough that scum wouldn't really draw any extra suspicion for claiming it themselves.

Shadoweh  -  Town Heroic Vigilante.  Was hoping that this potentially unlimited dayvig would be a present to someone who was really wanting it, but it worked out pretty well anyway.  The original concept for this was a measure to prevent excessive newbtown from bringing the Town down - sometimes the most pro-town thing to do is shoot someone who may be townie, but is causing grief for the town.  This role is actually motivated to shoot the townier of two lynch options, because it means that the town may have an extra kill the next day too.

UncertainKitten  -  Town Cowboy Cop.  An investigative counterpart to the Kevorkian Doc that I'm surprised I haven't seen before.  Could investigate on even nights, or kill to forfeit all future investigations.  The odds of the game lasting until Day Five, let alone the cop surviving that long, were pretty small, so in practice this role basically boiled down to getting one investigation N2, and then shooting on N3.  Still, it was the only role capable of getting a good result on both Hourai and Zakeri, so that's something.  I'm always sad to see a new role die N1.

The Bad

Bardiche  -  Zombie Eavesdropper.  If I hadn't come up with most role names at the last minute, I would have called him 'Zombie Scavenger'.  He had a few abilities, all of them more useful later in the game.  Firstly, so long as he was alive, scum would automatically receive a copy of all radio communications.  Hourai let the Town know that there was potentially a listener out there, though, so this didn't get much use.  Secondly, Bardiche would inherit the abilities of dead scum.  Thirdly, he got to use an ability each night without actually using up his night action.

Basically, he was intended to be scum's weapon against excessive setup speculation.  "Scum couldn't have done that, the one with that kind of ability is already dead."  "Scum couldn't have done that, they have to spend an action on NKing."  This role was meant to prevent that sort of thing from being valid.

Hanged Hourai  -  Traitor Mad Scientist.  For the record, I named this role Traitor first, and only afterwards looked on the wiki and saw that the word was already used to describe basically what I intended, and I didn't want the town to know for sure whether he could talk with scum, since the town is never supposed to be sure about scum communication limitations in general.  Anyway, his mind control beacon was kind of a one-way Bus Driver.  He picked two targets, and anything trying to hit the first at night would instead hit the second, with no notification for the user that a redirect had happened.

This role was basically meant to be used as either a Godfatherizer, or a Framer, and the two functions could be switched between freely.  Also, while Hourai would automatically protect himself from scum NKs, if he was hit by the Rolecop he'd become a true zombie, wouldn't lose his ability, would be able to post in the scum QT, and would begin showing as a zombie to Edible's test as well.

huh what  -  Zombie Investigator.  If I hadn't come up with most role names at the last minute, I would have called this one 'Zombie Creeper' or something.  Investigative roles are generally less useful for scum than for town, so this one was made extra powerful.  He'd get the full role PM, the full list of actions used so far over the course of the game, and the full list of actions used on that person over the course of the game.

The purpose of this role was roleclaim fodder, the other big meta-related thing scum have to worry about in role-heavy games.  With this role, the zombies would have a much better idea of what was out there, and they'd be able to counterclaim or think up new roles more convincingly.  Also, this role came with an implicit guarantee that there were no Watchers or Trackers in the game, which freed the scum team up to claim whatever night actions they wanted without worry of being disproven.

Schezo  -  Zombie Hitman.  This role could perform an extra, unblockable NK on any night.  What more do you want?

The Wily

Zakeri  -  Survivalist Profiler.  Another role I like.  A survivor with the ability to perform a limited rolecop - and he becomes immune to his rolecopped targets' actions.  He shows as Town to Edible's investigation in the first place.  If hit by UK's investigation before he scans her, he shows up as third party, and if after, then he shows up as town.  If UK tries to vig him after being scanned, the shot fizzles but she keeps her abilities.  Likewise with Shadoweh.  Dormio's roleblock can only stop his scans if he pricks Zakeri before being scanned, and even while roleblocked Zakeri's gathered immunities remain.  Conqueror's ability would appear to reveal Zakeri's role PM as that of a vanilla townie if he had been scanned by Zakeri first.

Any scum who Zakeri had scanned would fail to NK him if they were the one to send in the role PM - this includes Schezo's Hitman shot.  After scanning Hourai, his future scans would ignore all attempts at redirection.  He'd be immune to a scanned ability even if Bardiche was the one using it.  huh what's investigation wouldn't be affected one way or the other, however.

This role was prevented from being too useful to the town by (and he was informed of this as well) the fact that if he investigated scum, even despite gaining immunity to their scum abilities, he wouldn't actually know that they were scum.  Each scum had a pre-provided fakeclaim, and if Zakeri scanned them before they claimed any role in the thread, he'd find them to be their fakeclaim (Bardiche = Vanilla Townie, huh what = Watcher/Tracker, Schezo = Kevorkian Doc).  After claiming a role in public in the thread, Zakeri's scan would instead return a result of that role.  In either case, scum would have been notified in the QT that they had been rolecopped and of the result of that rolecop, but not who had copped them.  In retrospect, it might have been a bit more fair for scum if I had informed them from the start of a living rolecop, and just required them to always have a fakeclaim they wanted to appear as.  In any case, these limitations would mean that Zakeri's ability wouldn't do much to find scum before the LyLo massclaim, and once the town was in LyLo, Zakeri would be smart to try and get town lynched too.

I am so sad that this role didn't end up being useful, but that's partly my own fault for allowing so few scans.  If I used this role again, I'd probably give it two or three scans per night.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1266 on: April 06, 2011, 05:02:46 AM »
I pegged Zak as the survivor because Serp didn't MK him. D:

(That and his insistence on staying in because lol dignity.)
Neither of these are true.

I survived the MK because I sent in a role action.

I would have stayed in when I came back no matter what.
Though If I was town, I probably wouldn't have left in the first place.

I was all for lynching Bardiche back on day three, but that would involve me trying to counter claim a non-town role when I was already on the path to being a (useless) town role.

Bardiche had the ability to completely nullify all attempts to not play the game properly during Lylo
Sucks for town, don't it?

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1267 on: April 06, 2011, 05:13:51 AM »
Quote
Bardiche had the ability to completely nullify all attempts to not play the game properly during Lylo
Sucks for town, don't it?
Well, claiming third party was pretty sly, and I don't think without a counterclaim most people would have thought otherwise. Although people should probably have considered the possibility more, but eh.

Dead QT here: http://www.quicktopic.com/46/H/RD4QhTLSLPayx


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1268 on: April 06, 2011, 05:15:27 AM »
Welp.

I don't have much to say, really. D1 and D2 were enjoyable (albeit irritatingly lengthy for re-reads, but it was a large game so what can you do), but I slept through most of D3. I hate to say it, but I think I would have been under a motivation slump at that period of time even if I were a townie - really, guys, playing the set-up is an effective way to kill interest. As somebody who is not particularly skillful at logic puzzles, claims that "town can win without any scumhunting" cause me to lose all motivation, since I have very little to contribute to those sorts of discussions. It does not help that nearly everybody beat me to the obvious suggestions as well.

I found the set-up to be interesting, but it was also incredibly stressful to watch everything related to it unfold from the PoV of scum.

Zak, what were you getting at with your D1 Schezo vote, anyway?

Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1269 on: April 06, 2011, 05:18:39 AM »
It was literally the best case I saw all day.

Also, those kinds of days I live for as scum, because it means I don't have to do any work. It's like the Town's lynching themselves.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 05:20:35 AM by WHMZakeri »

Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1270 on: April 06, 2011, 05:20:09 AM »
Oh wait, I just realized I won. :V Hooray!

I dunno, it feels like Bard did all the work this game. I didn't do anything notable following D1 aside from getting Kilga lynched because MotK loves their intricate fullclaims.

Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1271 on: April 06, 2011, 05:23:59 AM »
Hey, you got Kilga lynched. Despite my reassurances, even. Even though my reassurances turned out to be absolutely worthless.
Seriously, Neoserela going "I'm confuse." over your fake claim is, like, 85% of the reason why I yelled at NeoSerela for being too Naive. Even though he thought I was yelling at him for believing Capt.H was town.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1272 on: April 06, 2011, 05:24:46 AM »
Town was in LYLO on day 3 despite killing one scum per day, and lost on night 4.  This should not be possible, ever.

Game was ridiculously swing, sorry Serp.  Giving scum a full counter for every role is broken, giving town a weird psuedo-supercop was broken, making said supercop actually booby-trapped leans heavily toward bastard moddery, foisting upon town two self-destructive roles.

You could play this setup a million times and get a million different results just by having every player flip a coin each day to determine who to vote for, rendering scumhunting completely unnecessary and downright irritating in the midst of information and misinformation.  It's no surprise that everyone lost interest in the game partway through day 2.

Schezo

  • en-counse
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1273 on: April 06, 2011, 05:26:48 AM »
Yay winning when it looked hopeless.

Wait... No matter what Zakeri could still come back from no modkill 48 hour rule when he vanished for a week? But wow his role made him survive just about everything but a lynch if he poked the people who could harm him first? :V

Not much to say about this game otherwise since I already vented the multicop and was disspirited to do a lot since I got pegged and couldn't see a way out. I hope I don't do that badly again. Sorry to my fellow partners but I tried my best to play out day 2 and try to set up as many town as I could to take with me, even though it was rather lackluster play.

Dormio Ergo Sum

  • MotK's Official Idlebot
  • *
  • I don't bite... much.
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1274 on: April 06, 2011, 05:27:26 AM »
huh, what?
PX I BLAME YOU, SCUM.

Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1275 on: April 06, 2011, 05:29:12 AM »
Hey, you got Kilga lynched. Despite my reassurances, even. Even though my reassurances turned out to be absolutely worthless.
That doesn't mean much when I was the only one with a case on him. :V Seriously, weren't the rest of the votes basically "gut, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, hammer to get a lynch"?

Conqueror

  • Here I am, dirty and faceless
  • waiting to heed your instruction
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1276 on: April 06, 2011, 05:29:58 AM »
That doesn't mean much when I was the only one with a case on him. :V Seriously, weren't the rest of the votes basically "gut, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, hammer to get a lynch"?

It means you had a ridiculous fakeclaim. :V


On tue un homme, on est un assassin. On tue des millions d'hommes, on est un conqu?rant. On les tue tous, on est un dieu.
Every saint has a past and every sinner a future.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1277 on: April 06, 2011, 05:30:20 AM »
That doesn't mean much when I was the only one with a case on him. :V Seriously, weren't the rest of the votes basically "gut, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, hammer to get a lynch"?

I had a case on him as well.  Also meta.  But yeah, your fakeclaim didn't hurt.

Dormio Ergo Sum

  • MotK's Official Idlebot
  • *
  • I don't bite... much.
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1278 on: April 06, 2011, 05:31:19 AM »
I assumed we were safe regardless of whether or not Bardiche was a zombie or not, seeing as I had him blocked.
Evidently not.

PX

  • School Idol?
  • *
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1279 on: April 06, 2011, 05:31:30 AM »
Your fakeclaim was indeed ridiculous. Also, you bastards egged me for a lynch when I just got home tired.

NeoSerela, :colonveeplusalpha:

Also, holy fucking Pesco Mindhax

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1280 on: April 06, 2011, 05:34:06 AM »
Well, that was interesting.

Not sure I want to play town ever again though. And scum would be too stressful.

It really took a team effort to lose though. Dormio blocking the kill on Bard and leaving his power dangerously vague for town, Neo for not giving her radio to a safe target and hammering herself in Lylo, me trying to take Edible down with me and dropping my case on Huh What over a role claim, everyone that wanted my head for suggesting we kill the serial killer survivor with vig powers  :V (especially NeoSerela, although he and everyone else may be right in normal circumstances).

I feel a little sick after this game.

Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1281 on: April 06, 2011, 05:35:38 AM »
That doesn't mean much when I was the only one with a case on him. :V Seriously, weren't the rest of the votes basically "gut, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, i believe the other wagon's fakeclaim, hammer to get a lynch"?

Half of that was your fake claim, I'd say you could call it a personal win anytime.

Also, for those interested, I lied completely about investigating Edible. I had actually investigated Colt just before he died :V I had successfully blocked myself from the evils of a Vanilla townie, a Guy who would have ended up protecting me, and a guy who just wanted someone to talk to during the night (And also, Dormio, but that one didn't count.)

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1282 on: April 06, 2011, 05:36:33 AM »
I assumed we were safe regardless of whether or not Bardiche was a zombie or not, seeing as I had him blocked.
Evidently not.

That's another big issue with this game.  Part of the reason I went with the HW lynch on day 3 is that I knew you still had Bard locked down, and if there was no NK we'd know he was scum.

Bard's ability made mine, even mine at full "potential," look vanilla by comparison.  He could literally get away with anything.  Serp, punishing town for using abilities that the setup gave them is ridiculous, and I've seen numerous examples of this in your setup.  Next time if you want to encourage town to scumhunt, do so with an open setup instead of bastard mod role madness.

capt. h

  • Only sane townie
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1283 on: April 06, 2011, 05:39:43 AM »
That's another big issue with this game.  Part of the reason I went with the HW lynch on day 3 is that I knew you still had Bard locked down, and if there was no NK we'd know he was scum.

Bard's ability made mine, even mine at full "potential," look vanilla by comparison.  He could literally get away with anything.  Serp, punishing town for using abilities that the setup gave them is ridiculous, and I've seen numerous examples of this in your setup.  Next time if you want to encourage town to scumhunt, do so with an open setup instead of bastard mod role madness.

To be fair, his fake role claim was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of, and I shouldn't have been the only one to think he was lying.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1284 on: April 06, 2011, 05:41:06 AM »
To be fair, his fake role claim was the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of, and I shouldn't have been the only one to think he was lying.

This was a game that had a player with the ability to cop-check five players at once.

PX

  • School Idol?
  • *
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1285 on: April 06, 2011, 05:42:24 AM »
And actually managed to cop all the scum on the first attempt...

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1286 on: April 06, 2011, 05:44:06 AM »
Pesco is truly a mindhax pro.

Schezo

  • en-counse
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1287 on: April 06, 2011, 05:44:38 AM »
Capt H. I hope you are finished with mafia because or one bad game where you really did get screwed by the setup. You seemed to have the making to get good and I can assure you they don't all turn out like this one did.

PX

  • School Idol?
  • *
Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1288 on: April 06, 2011, 05:45:35 AM »
I'm pretty sure everyone who got "Vanilla Townie" cursed the mod. I know I did.

Re: Zombie Apocalypse Mafia - GAME OVER
« Reply #1289 on: April 06, 2011, 05:48:15 AM »
I hope you are finished with mafia because or one bad game where you really did get screwed by the setup.
what


Also, we should really have another game of Vanilla Mafia.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 05:51:02 AM by huh what »