Author Topic: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP  (Read 12871 times)

AuNaturel

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Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« on: September 26, 2010, 09:09:56 PM »
Hello, my friends! 
My next project in Touhou is going to be to 1cc Subterranean Animism.  I need some help, though.  I've grown to like using Reimu B, and I would like to know if that is a good idea.  If you guys could give me any tips to help me through, I would greatly appreciate it!  Mainly getting through stages 3-6, as that's usually when I begin to have trouble.  I play on Normal by the way.

Thanks!   :derp:
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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2010, 09:12:47 PM »
As far as shot types go, you're best off with ReimuA or Reimu C.  MarisaA if you don't mind no-focusing against bosses and having crappy bombs.  ReimuB gets a lot of hate, but it does more damage than MarisaB and about the same as MarisaC while having combined half-homing as well as piercing, so...yeah, I dunno.

I can't really help with the stages though, since SA's one of my worst games. :derp:

Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2010, 09:15:38 PM »
Okay. First of all, ditch ReimuB. She is not horrible but her damage output is seriously WEAK. And her bomb suck. Pick ReimuA. A solid, powerful forward-focus type.

Then. This game is quite often about streaming. Remember that and spend a little time in stage practice to work out how to play the stages.

Remember that you have a lot of bombs at your disposal. In stage practice, figure out what you can consistently do and what you are bad at and plan bombs ahead. Of course also use them when you feel like you are about to die.

Be happy that Stage 1-3 is super easy. Stage 3 takes some learning though. Yuugi's lasers isn't always nice to everyone.

AuNaturel

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2010, 09:51:41 PM »
Thanks for the help, guys!  And yes, I know about Yuugi's accursed lasers... they always seem to catch me off guard while I'm focusing on something else.  I suppose I'll be hitting stage practice with Reimu A and work on them!
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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2010, 09:54:47 PM »
Stage 3 gets a lot easier if you learn where the laser-shooting yin-yangs spawn and gun them down before they get a chance to shoot too much.  Even if you can only wipe one side, that's half the lasers to deal with, and they'll only be coming from one side.  Though that might be easier said than done, considering I usually use MarisaB and can just sit in the middle with the wood shot to clear both sides at once.

Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #5 on: September 26, 2010, 10:04:55 PM »
Lasers on Yuugi's stage are static, at least during the stage part. Pretty sure the ones on the boss battle are random. If there are any differences in the lasers, it's due to how you moved.

ふねん1

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2010, 10:44:13 PM »
First of all, use ReimuA. I would say don't use anyone else, but I won't be playing the game for you. MarisaB could work if you like spread types. As for ReimuC, people say her bomb is good. I haven't tried her myself, but here's a tidbit for any character: there's enough Power items in the game to provide you with over 40 bombs. Use them wisely though, and always keep the Power trade-off in mind.

One of the things to know about this game is that there's a multitude of attacks (perhaps more than other games) that can be "learned". Some attacks are static, and technically the ones that involve streaming can be micromemorized too. Whether or not you choose to memorize said attacks, remember that Practice Mode is your best friend. Spent plenty of time doing stages in Practice until you feel comfortable with them.

Lasers on Yuugi's stage are static, at least during the stage part. Pretty sure the ones on the boss battle are random. If there are any differences in the lasers, it's due to how you moved.
They're static during the boss too. That's how people supergraze them so easily. Though I don't know if the lasers the orbs release at death are aimed or what.
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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #7 on: September 26, 2010, 10:58:17 PM »
First of all, use ReimuA. I would say don't use anyone else, but I won't be playing the game for you. MarisaB could work if you like spread types. As for ReimuC, people say her bomb is good. I haven't tried her myself, but here's a tidbit for any character: there's enough Power items in the game to provide you with over 40 bombs. Use them wisely though, and always keep the Power trade-off in mind.
ReimuC's bomb is extremely good, nearly as powerful as MarisaB's while being way easier to use.

I think you meant MarisaA and not MarisaB; MarisaB makes ReimuB look strong, and while it has lots of versatility the damage is absolute trash and requires shotgunning with the wood type to do any real damage.

On the note of bombing though; stage 5 post-midboss pretty much vomits power items.  Run it with ReimuA or ReimuC and you can bomb literally the entire way  from midboss to boss and only lose about 1 power in the end.

Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2010, 11:49:08 PM »
I generally had easiest time clearing the game with ReimuC, even though I don't like using her because of the awkward shot. What makes her good is the fact that she's the only type in the game with a bomb that deals decent damage (well there's also MarisaB, but her bomb requires planning and it basically doesn't do anything if you end up having to bomb too far from the boss).

ReimuB is just bad, she's a homing type without proper homing and her bomb sucks. Because of the non-working homing shots, ReimuA simply does everything better.
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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2010, 12:19:06 AM »
I cleared it with Reimu A, as I have a hard time aligning the shot for Reimu C, and I didn't want to learn Marisa B.
Stage 3 is basically streaming while trying to stand away from the lasers,
which of course can be memorized.

You don't need homing (Reimu B, which isn't even proper homing) anyways because the bosses generally like to stand still right in the middle for the whole fight, and you don't need to kill all the enemies in the stage.

AuNaturel

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2010, 12:41:32 AM »
I appreciate all of your suggestions!  Any advice on silly stage 5?  That's usually as far as I get!
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ふねん1

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #11 on: September 27, 2010, 12:44:12 AM »
I think you meant MarisaA and not MarisaB; MarisaB makes ReimuB look strong, and while it has lots of versatility the damage is absolute trash and requires shotgunning with the wood type to do any real damage.

On the note of bombing though; stage 5 post-midboss pretty much vomits power items.  Run it with ReimuA or ReimuC and you can bomb literally the entire way  from midboss to boss and only lose about 1 power in the end.

My point with MarisaB is that she can kill enemies during stages better than anyone else. MarisaA would truly be good, if her focused/unfocused shots were reversed. She plays more like Youmu solo in IN (from a scorerunning perspective), so if you're good at staying focused only when you need to move, then go for it.

The only sections past midboss-Orin that are really a concern are the "pellet hells", but only the second one actually gives you Power. And if you're playing ReimuA, just gap the shit out of it (the second one, anyway). The enclosed streaming section can be done pacifist, and the part before the boss is simple streaming (read: no need to bomb unless you really screwed up). If you're really concerned about regaining Power, here's a few more stats to keep in mind:

Second "pellet hell": 2.8 Power (56 items)
Enclosed streaming: 1.7 Power (34 items, 20 of them from the two yin-yang orb enemies)
Closing section: 1.2 Power (24 items)

This assumes you actually collect all of the items (and that's a very big assumption if you don't have a spread).
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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #12 on: September 27, 2010, 12:55:10 AM »
My point with MarisaB is that she can kill enemies during stages better than anyone else. MarisaA would truly be good, if her focused/unfocused shots were reversed. She plays more like Youmu solo in IN (from a scorerunning perspective), so if you're good at staying focused only when you need to move, then go for it.
True, true.  Which shot do you usually use during stages if you're using MarisaB?  I usually end up finding water to not be killing things fast enough and end up playing just about every stage considerably further up the screen with wood instead.

ふねん1

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #13 on: September 27, 2010, 01:35:15 AM »
True, true.  Which shot do you usually use during stages if you're using MarisaB?  I usually end up finding water to not be killing things fast enough and end up playing just about every stage considerably further up the screen with wood instead.
I've yet to use MarisaB myself (though all this talk is making me want to try), but I believe things like Wood can also help if you want to spread your shots out even more. Water is meant mostly for getting rid of the weaker enemies. Some of the stronger ones usually can't be killed with other shottypes before getting bullets out anyway (think the "amulet fan" Great-Fairies in Stage 4), so you'll still be doing the same kinds of dodging with MarisaB.
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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #14 on: September 27, 2010, 01:41:20 AM »
I havent even 1cc'd normal with Raymoo A
Reimu C took the cake for my first 1cc of SA
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 05:22:16 AM by omnomnom »

Garlyle

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #15 on: September 27, 2010, 03:06:01 AM »
I've yet to use MarisaB myself (though all this talk is making me want to try), but I believe things like Wood can also help if you want to spread your shots out even more. Water is meant mostly for getting rid of the weaker enemies. Some of the stronger ones usually can't be killed with other shottypes before getting bullets out anyway (think the "amulet fan" Great-Fairies in Stage 4), so you'll still be doing the same kinds of dodging with MarisaB.
MarisaB's shot types can do a lot of interesting things

In all honesty, she doesn't pack the power of ReimuA at forward focus, but nobody does.  It's not a huge difference, however, and the water-style spread is excellent enough to help a lot during the enemies.  But if you pay attention to the stages you can do some horrific things to them by using the right shot type at the right time.

Also it makes the Parsee fight fun as hell.

The hard part about MarisaB is more learning how and when to use the different formations (And the fact that her bomb, while really strong, is limited-range, so you have to be moving to use it before you need it if you want to bomb something away), adding an extra level of learning to do on top of what SA already has; but honestly that complexity makes it my favourite in the series.

Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #16 on: September 27, 2010, 03:21:05 AM »
In all honesty, she doesn't pack the power of ReimuA at forward focus, but nobody does.  It's not a huge difference, however.
What.  Fire type is only x1.4 base damage at max power.  ReimuA max power is somewhere slightly below x2 (too lazy to check the shot type thread).  By comparison, ReimuB and MarisaC are about x1.55 base.  The ability to have five different formations is nice for utility, but the damage is...bad.

Not that I mean to discourage people from using my favorite shot type, I'm just saying it's not ReimuA/ReimuC/MarisaA tier.
« Last Edit: September 27, 2010, 03:28:01 AM by Esoterica »

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #17 on: September 27, 2010, 03:27:36 AM »
I'm pretty sure RaymooA is slightly op. Not like Sakuya in PCB op, or border team in IN. But definately better IMO. Not only does she have the most powerful forward shot type, she also has arguably the most special ability. Granted swaping between screens is pretty useless once you become familiar with the game. It's totally great for when you're new and learning and fail to recognize a stream spot and find yourself cornered.  I'm rather fond of the bomb too. It's not the most damaging. But the invincibility timer on it is great, and combined with her already powerful shot type, you can still dish out plenty of damage to almost trivilize any spellcards you need to bomb thru.

ReimuC....ugh, I remember hating that type badly when I tried it, but that was when I was struggling with normal myself. I suppose I should try it again. I've recently tried ReimuB (and have a pretty cool Yuugi lucky dodge video that came out of it), and I actually found it pretty good. I did NOT feel that her power was actually weak for a homing style character. The fact it has piercing too was kinda cool. But I didn't really notice it help to great effect when you'd expect it to. (those thingies lining up during each orin midboss encounter, the sparky-things during stage 4 shooting lasers, etc. I did not notice them getting trounced by piercing bullets despite being lined up).

People also like MarisaC for newbies (that's the nitori one right?). But I'm not sure it's really a good idea to get used to the refund-bomb thing. It takes a completely different mentality of bombing to take advantage of, and well...it might hinder your general Touhou sklils for other shottypes/games.

I hate MarisaB. I see how she can be good, but I personally just can't get used to it. Plus it requires too much memorization for me, I don't stick with a Touhou game long enough to remember those details.

ArteShy

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #18 on: September 27, 2010, 11:20:03 AM »
In my opinion, ReimuA is the most useful shot type. It's shot does biggest damage out of all shot types (except MarisaA unfocused) and you can teleport through the gaps (By double tapping the arrow key on left or right side of screen.).

AuNaturel

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #19 on: September 27, 2010, 01:01:25 PM »
I decided to play for a bit, and I got to stage five!  But Orin ate all of my supplies.  She took about five lives...  Any suggestions about what could help me deal with Orin?  Or should I just hit practice.
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ふねん1

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #20 on: September 27, 2010, 01:39:00 PM »
Congrats on the progress! Stage 5 is tough, so yeah, go to Practice and see if you can get more comfortable with Orin's attacks. Don't be afraid to consult replays or Youtube vids if you're stumped on something.

In my opinion, ReimuA is the most useful shot type. It's shot does biggest damage out of all shot types (except MarisaA unfocused) and you can teleport through the gaps (By double tapping the arrow key on left or right side of screen.).
ReimuA does more damage than MarisaA unfocused (not by much, but you get the idea). And MarisaB Wood shotgunned at 3 Power is the most damaging shot in the game.
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GenericTouhouFailure

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #21 on: September 27, 2010, 01:42:47 PM »
I decided to play for a bit, and I got to stage five!  But Orin ate all of my supplies.  She took about five lives...  Any suggestions about what could help me deal with Orin?  Or should I just hit practice.
>Reimu trivalizestagesbombspamgetliveshaveanicesatorifightandkillbosseswhileatit C
>BOMB SPAM ze!

ArteShy

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2010, 04:40:43 PM »
Congrats on the progress! Stage 5 is tough, so yeah, go to Practice and see if you can get more comfortable with Orin's attacks. Don't be afraid to consult replays or Youtube vids if you're stumped on something.
ReimuA does more damage than MarisaA unfocused (not by much, but you get the idea). And MarisaB Wood shotgunned at 3 Power is the most damaging shot in the game.

That's weird, i always thought it does a little more damage.

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2010, 05:18:24 PM »
That's weird, i always thought it does a little more damage.
Nope.  And since he mentioned shotgun, Marisa!A unfocused is the second most powerful shot when used that way.

At long range Reimu!A is still number one, followed by Marisa!A unfocused, Marisa!C, then Marisa!A focused.
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AuNaturel

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #24 on: September 27, 2010, 06:31:05 PM »
I appreciate all of your help, guys!  I got killed off by Utsuho's 2nd to last spellcard, but I've improved quite a bit!
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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #25 on: September 27, 2010, 07:43:26 PM »
MarisaB's shot types can do a lot of interesting things
Ugh... Earth!Patchy. Anything Earth can do, Water can do better. (Except perhaps damage bosses, but really you shouldn't be using either of them for that)


My first non-ReimuA Normal 1cc featured a no-miss Orin fight, due in no small part to Mecha!Patchy's ability to do damage while the zombies were chasing me around the screen.

Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2010, 12:33:34 AM »
Putting aside the shot types for a moment, the key to success on SA is: Practice, memorize, practice, memorize, practice, and memorize until you see game-accurate patterns in your sleep.

SA has a lot of static patterns, and patterns that are made much, MUCH easier if you know they're coming and position yourself in advance (before the bullets even spawn). It probably has more such patterns than any other Windows Touhou game.

Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2010, 12:40:36 AM »
I highly doubt that.

I think Imperishable Night has it beat in terms of static attacks.

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Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2010, 01:30:49 AM »
Err, so in terms of static attacks...

Wriggle's second boss card and last spell are static on position.
Mystia... nothing much.
Keine. Oh god Keine. Static on position for half of her attacks and static period for 49% of the others.
Marisa... You got me there. Event Horizon is maybe the only one that might be static. Same goes for Reimu.
Tei is static. Reisen has her first card which is lulzy with anyone who isn't Marisa or Alice anyways. The third card as well.
Eirin's midboss openers for both routes are static on angle and position. Omoikune's Brain, and Apollo 13.
Kaguya has... Hourai Jewel? I guess Salamander Shield, her first last spell, and her fourth count as well.
Ex-Keine is more lulzy static stuff. Mokou has Hourai Doll...

And don't get me started on the death fairies. IN Extra, Stage 6 openers...

Re: Subterranean Animism ~ HELP
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2010, 03:25:24 AM »
Ack, sorry for the ambiguity. When I said "such patterns" in the second sentence, I was referring to the "patterns that are made much, MUCH easier if you know they're coming" part, not static ones.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2010, 03:29:13 AM by Poochy »