Author Topic: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera  (Read 5991 times)

Helepolis

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2010, 10:49:10 AM »
I remember someone linked Green eyed jealousy to "Hotel california" (or was it another song) and made like an entire youtube movie out of it saying "ZUN STEALS/USES OTHER SONGS AS HIS OWN". Guess what, it was also some 1/10000th of a second in slowed down pitch. Good show...

Quote from: Drake
is just people finding "references" of songs solely because they're consciously looking for a link. People can and will distort realities to conform to their expectations.
I said it before in this thread and I will say it again: "People want to hear what they want to hear".

In case you are dutch (obviously few of you are or none) there is like a whole composition of "Mama appelsap" on youtube that puts dutch text on the screen as a subtitle for a line from a famous song. Guess what, the more you read that text while listening to the part of the song, the more your brain will link to it. And it is not done once or twice, but like hundred times.

Want a real speculative analysis for a song in Touhou? I bet few of you realise the similarity between PCB stage 3 and SA stage 4. Those kind of comparisons are like far more closer to "speculate" than picking out little bits of rhythms and instruments that happen to sound "some what similar/close" to song X.


 


Tengukami

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2010, 10:57:24 AM »
Mary did take pains to mark where she heard what song, though, which I found helpful.

I'm really starting to think that the ability to hear UNOWH in Heian Alien is purely genetic. People either totally hear it or totally don't. It seriously reminds me of the cilantro thing. Which brings me to:

Want a real speculative analysis for a song in Touhou? I bet few of you realise the similarity between PCB stage 3 and SA stage 4. Those kind of comparisons are like far more closer to "speculate" than picking out little bits of rhythms and instruments that happen to sound "some what similar/close" to song X.

Yes, there are going to be stronger and weaker connections to different ears. If someone doesn't hear something you hear very clearly, it doesn't necessarily mean that they're tone deaf, just as someone hearing something that you don't means they're grasping at straws. Maybe it's because I've been spending too much time in language theory classes, but that's how I'm looking at it, anyway.

Having said that, I'm sure there are people who know music theory who could post the measures from two different Touhou themes for comparison and point to exactly what makes them similar. No one here is (or maybe can) do that. I know I can't, anyway. So we have our ears to go on. And as this thread demonstrates, everyone's ears are different, and that's fine.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Helepolis

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2010, 11:14:02 AM »
I have to disagree and agree on a few things here with you Tengu,

To be honest, I think the real issue is here the "fandom". I noticed that people quickly tend to discuss / compare hyped things more often than things people never seen / heard. This is of course a pretty common phenomenon, so I would not hold grudges. This thread and general web speculation on Nue's theme proves and confirms this. Nue's theme is a hype for being compared to other songs. That is why I gave a comparison example from PCB/SA. Stuff that is rarely discussed or heard.

I do agree on the theory of music to compare tracks in their measurement and scales and so on. I am my self a sucker when it comes to theory so I have no choice but to rely on my own ears. How ever, the irked issue in this thread is in fact that Heian Alien is broken apart too much that it sounds like it is no longer a "music theory" but more like "I hear song x in here at time Y"

For my own personal viewpoint, I find it all too far fetched as well. Mainly because it is a overhyped discussion which everybody has their own opinion on it, but nobody wants to agree with each other because they are people with their own moral beliefs.

Edit: 
I think the only person so far who did grand analysis on music was Fightest and that was totally from his own point of view with some basic music theory.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2010, 11:18:05 AM by Helepolis »

Tengukami

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #33 on: September 14, 2010, 11:20:34 AM »
True that Heian Alien's a popular song that people like to speculate on, and other theme comparisons need more attention. I won't argue with that. But if someone hears something that I don't, I tend to either think that I need to listen better, or that I can't hear it. That's all I'm saying.

And because I can, I'll quote myself from page one:

Year-Round Observed Curiosity's opening sounds to me like the Inspector Gadget closing theme, at a slower tempo.

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Helepolis

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #34 on: September 14, 2010, 11:23:23 AM »
But if someone hears something that I don't, I tend to either think that I need to listen better, or that I can't hear it. That's all I'm saying.
Yes but my silly, but some what important, question is: When you force yourself to listen better, will you hear it because you really recognize the similarity or is it just because people told you to listen better to hear the similarity.  :V

QUESTIONS QUESTIONS !

And because I can, I'll quote myself from page one:
I am not going to suffer my self like Drake who cannot unhear that. CHARISMATIC ESCAPE >>>>>>>>>>>>>

Myschi

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #35 on: September 14, 2010, 11:28:05 AM »
I have nothing to add to this except the following:

Damn you, Tengu, for bringing that song back into my head. If I'm humming it all day, I blame you.

Tengukami

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #36 on: September 14, 2010, 11:28:51 AM »
:justasplanned:

"Human history and growth are both linked closely to strife. Without conflict, humanity would have no impetus for growth. When humans are satisfied with their present condition, they may as well give up on life."

Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #37 on: September 14, 2010, 12:16:47 PM »
And because I can, I'll quote myself from page one:
oh goddammit why :getdown:

Marin The Magus

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #38 on: September 14, 2010, 04:16:51 PM »
Yes but my silly, but some what important, question is: When you force yourself to listen better, will you hear it because you really recognize the similarity or is it just because people told you to listen better to hear the similarity.  :V

QUESTIONS QUESTIONS !
I am not going to suffer my self like Drake who cannot unhear that. CHARISMATIC ESCAPE >>>>>>>>>>>>>


Okay, I'll leave something clear:

It's not like I haven't tried any of what everyone said in youtube. I had. And I have to admit that even though the people said they were similar, I couldn't see it/ hear it. And it's not just with the opinions of the others. I was listening to Satori Maiden (before I even made this post) and I thought that I could hear a little bit of the trumpets of Heian Alien. I was like "No, no... It's impossible" (my usual thought) and I heard Heian Alien and it certainly didn't sound like it. You see, if I wasn't sure that Heian Alien sounded like these songs I wouldn't have posted this.
I just want to say that, even though the others said that  Heian sounded like another song, and even though I tried really hard to hear it, I couldn't. Even though I told myself that a song sounded like Heian Alien I couldn't hear it.

Fightest

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #39 on: September 14, 2010, 05:19:30 PM »
... I thought I had gone over this to a good degree in my analysis way back when. Of course, it is my fault for that thread being lost in the mists of time, and I should update that some point. Still, as someone who likes to think they have a good ear for music, there are elements of other boss themes in there, and I will myself confirm UN Owen, Hartmann and Sanae's theme. Others might be a bit of a stretch.

VIVItheFujoshi

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #40 on: September 14, 2010, 06:25:47 PM »
more similar songs who i know and can found... (melody or maybe tempo or...something XD)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjQAikuBQA  Green Eyed Jealousy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Ar2zajm6E  Mime?s Harp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=12AHLzW4kks  Satori Maiden ~ 3rd eye
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HHlkba7biyk  Voile, the Magic Library  and  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdzFCwTr0ps Locked Girl ~ The Girl's Secret Room  (a mix of the two...in really i don?t know why happen me this XD)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-QacmltD4g  Lullaby of Deserted Hell
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn0CZfeJ3Hc  Legend of Mana OST - Nostalgic Song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csv5j92woHk  Fate of Sixty Years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNa551dR6Rc   Pink Floyd - Pigs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOSg0Mrk_N8  Now, until the moment you die - Sariel's first theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfoIF8zpVCw  Alphaville - Dance With Me
(well, this two songs no sound similar...but i had the idea of combine them and...misteriously...fits well. http://www.mediafire.com/?f7dk8hayhy6y3ga)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02q4YVg6cPE  キュアリアス上海古牌 Curious Shanghai Gu Pai (called Kourindou or Rinnosuke song n_n)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOJ1zo_mEtE  RED ZONE  XD
(meanwhile do a mix of midis with the two songs,discovered who the two have similar structure,was so easy put them together. http://www.mediafire.com/?t4doimdyn1z  ) but...i no was the only one who do the experiment.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lgNNcyaCQo  KORIN ZONE!

 :o ears and mind=fun  :o

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #41 on: September 14, 2010, 06:31:14 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02q4YVg6cPE  キュアリアス上海古牌 Curious Shanghai Gu Pai (called Kourindou or Rinnosuke song n_n)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOJ1zo_mEtE  RED ZONE  XD
(meanwhile do a mix of midis with the two songs,discovered who the two have similar structure,was so easy put them together. http://www.mediafire.com/?t4doimdyn1z  ) but...i no was the only one who do the experiment.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lgNNcyaCQo  KORIN ZONE!
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Marin The Magus

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Re: Heian Alien ~ Nue, the chimera
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2010, 06:40:22 PM »
more similar songs who i know and can found... (melody or maybe tempo or...something XD)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKjQAikuBQA  Green Eyed Jealousy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8Ar2zajm6E  Mime?s Harp


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Csv5j92woHk  Fate of Sixty Years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNa551dR6Rc   Pink Floyd - Pigs

I love those 4 songs :) Especially Requiem. (Mime's my favorite character of Saint Seiya |3) I've gotta say, if you add a few more musical notes to requiem it would sound a lot like Green-eyed jealousy. It's a lil' bit slower, though. The first part of pigs and fate of sixty years are REALLY similar. (and the first part - in both of the songs - is always repeated in the background.)