FIFA 2010 World Cup - South Africa or BZZZZZZZZZZZ

~Beyond the Border~ > Sara's Audio-Visual Import-Overflow Retail

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Kilgamayan:
See, the interesting thing is that I spend the match with the denizens of /sp/. They almost unanimously agreed that de Jong should have been red carded - and they still were outraged every time Spain decided to go to the ground like they'd been shot. The problem I (and probably many other Americans) have with diving and embellishment is that we don't see it as a valid style of play, we see it as cheating and cowardice. (This is actually reflected pretty well in the USA national team, which basically refuses to embellish/flop outside of Altidore) Physical play is what it is - it has positives and negatives, and they're both fairly clearly outlined from the beginning, both from personal experience and simply from the rule book. That's fine, you know what you're getting into with it. Faking injuries has almost zero drawback despite being against the rules, and it never gets called despite the number of players/countries that do it. It's resorting to playing the people instead of playing the game. There's no sportsman ship in it whatsoever, whether or not it's in response to physical play.

Americans don't care about trying to right what one team perceives as a wrong with another wrong, they care about seeing a quality match, which this was far from thanks in large part to Spanish acting. If what you described about FIFA's internal operations is true, then it's definitely a problem on a corporate level and needs to be fixed on that corporate level, but as far as I am (and many others are) concerned that doesn't make gaming the system the cheating way the Spaniards did any more acceptable.

tl;dr Two wrongs don't make a right, and higher-level wrongs don't excuse lower-level wrongs. Whether or not Holland played overly physical, whether or not FIFA is fucked in the head, I saw Spain go out there today and cheat their way through the match. I wish Germany/Uruguay had been the finals match, that match was a lot better in almost every regard.

(Also, I don't think the Villa-drawn foul was a yellow at all, so I guess that's an agree-to-disagree situation.)

--- Quote from: lmagus on July 12, 2010, 02:02:38 AM ---i second every word you said, except for soccer. it`s football =)

--- End quote ---

The term "soccer" is British in origin.

Alice★f:

--- Quote from: lmagus on July 12, 2010, 02:02:38 AM ---i second every word you said, except for soccer. it`s football =)

--- End quote ---
F?tbol

Kilgamayan:
Given I'd had some time to think about it, I feel an important distinction needs to be made, else I look like I'm setting up a double standard.

I have no problem with aggressive, physical play - I see it as a valid tactic, with the players knowing the risks (higher chances of earning fouls/cards) as well as the potential rewards (intimidate opposing team, get them to back off/tire them out). Playing with the intent to injure, however, is just as cheating and cowardly as faking fouls and injuries, if not more so given someone may actually get injured. The guy several games ago that cleatstomped an opposing player in the back of the knee (a surgically-repaired knee, no less) while they were on the ground? THAT is cowardly play and deserving of scorn.

That being said, I do not believe de Jong kicked with the explicit intent to injure, given the path the ball was taking.

ebarrett:
Anyway, if we had a few more efficient German referees* around, both the rough play and the flopping would certainly be punished equally.

*and dramatic Italian Western music

edit: also, this gem for the ages.
(edited again, changed link for better quality)

Helion:

--- Quote from: Kilgamayan on July 12, 2010, 06:00:33 AM ---I have no problem with aggressive, physical play

--- End quote ---
Despite agreeing with you earlier, I must oppose you here. Football is a game of finesse, pushing and trying to intimidate is not what you should be doing to take control of the ball, rather you should try outskilling your adversary. That, I think, is why you see so much diving from the "good" teams like Argentina, Spain, Italy and so on.

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