Tewi vs Momiji, who is the hardest midboss?

[Helepolis]

VS

After picking up IN lunatic again, I forgot what kind of a real pain in the ass Tewi is. But then again, on IRC when discussing with Anthony and Baity, they also mentioned Momiji. So I would like to know from an objective (patterns/mechanics)  and subjective (experience) point of view who is the hardest mid-boss in Touhou shmup series.

I would appreciate if you would motivate your vote, if you do vote. Else it makes the poll kind of useless. Thanks.

Note: Don't count StB or DS, as they are not the shmup versions

[LHCling]

[19:47] <Helepolis> Also nobody beats Tewi
[19:47] <Helepolis> Tewi must be the most fucking annoying hardest midboss ever in entire Touhou
[19:47] <Helepolis> or am I wrong
[19:48] <Anthony> momiji
[19:48] <Helepolis> I think Tewi is even more of a bitch
[19:48] <Helepolis> but Momiji is also hard
[19:48] <Baity> tewi is barely manageable because her attack has bullets crossing over
[19:48] <Baity> coupled with that aimed burst, that first attack is quite dangerous

To add to what I said previously, only Tewi's first attack contains this brutal nature. So when comparing Momiji and Tewi, it'd simply be between Tewi's first, and Momiji's... just Momiji. At this point in time (i.e. several minutes of trial attempts), I would say that Tewi is harder. Despite the fact that Momiji's attack has crossing-over elements as well and is more dense than Tewi's. While dying on the second attack does happen on occasion, it's not really notable in this argument (for me, anyway).

This however, is bias to me not regularly playing IN, and I've forgotten how do to everything but sight-readables.

[Zengar Zombolt]

I have to vote Momi. From a survival-kind of player, Her barging into the screen like she does always catches me underhanded. At least you can see Tewi coming to bomb her, or something.

[Bananamatic]

Tewi is a fucking asshole.
Normal, Hard, Lunatic, never perfected her.

[Sen]

Dunno. I think Momiji has harder danmaku, but you have MoF!bombs which decimate her instantly at no cost. Sure, IN bombs are pretty broken too, but Tei's not really that hard overall for me, on any difficulty. I'll say Momiji's the harder midboss.

I fucking hate Tei anyway so I'm biased against her :V

[Ghaleon]

Momiji causes me more grief. Tewi's attack is intimidating, but I find it tricks you into thinking it's more dangerous than it really is. Momiji's pushes me around and inevitably walls me in one of those giant circle things.

[Zengeku]

I'm not really sure. I have timed out Momizi but never Tewi. I don't practice Stage 5 in IN much anyway because everything but Tewi is incredibly easy and Reisens spellcards can be played in Spell practice. As for Momizi i have to play through her to face Aya so i naturally have more practice with Momizi.

A challenging question this one. I'll go with Momizi because of density and still proving a threat despite a lot of practice.

[Formless God]

Both are retarded tbh. But I've perfected Tewi once so ...

[Helepolis]

The thing I personally distinguish is the barrage pattern of Tewi and Momiji. As with Momiji you can apply a dodge tactic to evade the spiral patterns, and make sure you evade the rest (or w/e they are called), but with Tewi you cannot perform this and have to go through the barrage no matter what. Even though Tewi's first non card is a bitch, her 2nd might be less aggressive but still pretty tricky to perform.

From a personal point of view I vote for Tewi, it doesn't matter how you try to do it. It keeps getting me. Then again I haven't really played that much MoF to judge it better.

[Alfred F. Jones]

I gotta say, evil as she is, I loooooove Momizi's stage presence. She comes onto the screen and whooooooooa the screen just FILLS with bullets. It's cuhaaaaaaaazy. Went with Momizi for that reason.

Tangent/related note: Ah, good to see the poll function finally being put to good use.

[Zengeku]

I did a bit of testing on Tewi just now and while i did manage to perfect her i just couldn't time her attack out. You seemingly have to judge where the blue/red bullets are coming from and then dodge the barrage of smaller bullets in an area where they blue/red waves won't interfere. Because of how their nature, the red/blue ones are hard to read properly while Momizi's circle things are much more straight forward and never hit the center of the screen which make it so you only have to concentrate on the dodging. Hard mid-bosses both of them. IMO its a tie.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

Isn't Tewi static? I have captured both midbosses before, but Tewi is more likely to happen.

I still suck at her though, but Momizi is much harder.

[Matsuri]

Gonna have to go with Momiji. I can manage Tewi at least half of the time, when Momiji is an autobomb for me.

[Esoterica]

I'm going to say Tewi, because Momi's the only one of the two I've managed to perfect on lunatic.

[Zengeku]

I did some experimentation with the Normal and Hard version of the two midbosses and came to the conclusion that Tewi doesn't really start getting any bad at all before her Lunatic version. At Hard mode and below the bullet barrages come slower and they appear in simple patterns unlike the lunatic version where half the barrages fired are different... somehow.

Momizi though is quite a bit more intimidating than Tewi on lower difficulties. I also recall from my time as a newb to have more trouble with Momizi Normal than Tewi Normal. Same thing with Hard mode.

[Drake]

Talking about Lunatic here. I would have to say Tewi is harder, just based on her pattern being extraordinarily difficult to read. Momiji's pattern is hard, definitely, but I find it's more of a pathfinding pattern, where if you see a path you pretty much get through. Tewi's is more of a do-or-die kind of thing.

At least Tewi makes up for the rest of Stage 5 being piss easy.

[orinrin]

For me, Momiji is quite doable on Normal/Hard, whereas Tewi will almost 90% of the time, make me eat a bomb/life.

[Jaimers]

LLS stage 4 midbosses at max rank.

Momiji, hands down.

You only have to make one difficult dodge on Tewi, one that can be dodged by standing still 90% of the time anyway whereas Momiji is hard dodging all the way through.

[theshirn]

LLS stage 4 midbosses at max rank.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF---

[Esoterica]

LLS stage 4 midbosses at max rank.

Thread's over, everyone can go home.

[Nobu]

Gonna have to go with Momiji. I can manage Tewi at least half of the time, when Momiji is an autobomb for me.

And what clinches it is when you bomb to escape from from Momiji, you have to endure those zig-zag curtain attacks for longer, since the crows that come in from both sides always have the same timing with the music. >_>; Damned if you do, damned if you don't for me.

[Zetzumarshen]

Tewi's 2nd is non-existent, so no need to compare it.

I'll have to say Momiji's harder, just because it's longer. And Tewi's more fun to dodge so it alleviates some of the pressure.

[nintendonut888]

I've perfected Tewi only like two or three times, so I'd say her. I hear her first attack has a trick, but I can never remember it. Momizi is hard, sometimes even impossible (I refuse to believe some of those waves are dodgeable), but I've beaten her loads more times.

[Naut]

Momiji is rather simple criss-cross dodging but scares you away with those bigass rings, whereas Tewi has a little more complex criss-cross dodging but no real messing around... I find myself putting more effort into Tewi's battle than Momiji's, so I'd have to say she's the harder of the two.

[Chronojet ⚙ Dragon]

I think Momiji's attack is harder than Tewi's two, actually.
I find micrododging a hell lot easier than
OMFG. I GOTTA GET OVER TO THAT OTHER SIDE OF THE FIELD OR I D-- *pichu~n*

[ark]

Tewi, on both Normal and Hard. I don't know about Easy or Lunatic. I occasionally screw Tewi up even on Hard, while Momiji is cake on Hard. I've only fought Momiji on Lunatic once, so I can't say.

のののののののののののののののののののののののののののののののののののののののの

[Tapsa]

I don't know the exact reason why I voted for Momiji, been a lot of time since I played touhous last time. I do remember that the screen got filled with huge bullets when she appeared

[MysTeariousYukari]

I've only fought Momiji once, but she gave me HELL that one time. Tewi I have fought a few times and she was never any real threat, even the first time, compared to Momiji. I find that a bit Ironic, Momiji is the Stage 4 Midboss, correct? While Tewi is Stage 5 Midboss... Thank Yukari neither have Homing Cards... for what little I remember... I hope...

[8lue Wizard]

I don't recall Momiji being particularly challenging. Tewi? If I pass her attacks, it's because of blind luck. I absolutely cannot read that attack at all.

EDIT: *sees "lunatic" qualifier* Whoops. Never played either of 'em higher than Normal.

[MTSranger]

Momiji
but consider I haven't played much MoF lunatic...
In normal, they are similar.
In lunatic, somehow Tewi walls you in easily.
but Momiji is like WAHHHHH and you have no time to react and dash away from the big bullets
Good thing? One MoF bomb kills it. (Tewi needs 2)