Dwarf Fortress Mafia: Game Over - Town Win

[Serela]

So, NS. What exactly are you trying to prove with that post? Is there some point you want to make?

At first I was expecting to come out of it thinking "Oh FAV is so scummy", and then that... really didn't happen. And don't even try to tell me I should have just deleted the whole thing after it didn't come to a conclusive result, that was way too much work, it must be good for SOMETHING ;_;

It's an analysis, at least. You can draw new points from it that I didn't notice, and it's got links to all of FAV's posts, literally. Except the "Going to bed." during Sudden Death.

[FinnKaenbyou]

When Post 162 rolled along and Zakeri came back with people pressing him for his case on huh what, he was promising rereads and a new case, so what was the point of pressuring him about his earlier case then? He had his own word out there that new content was coming, me yelling at him for it wasn't going to expedite the process; in fact, it was very likely to distract him by making him get mad at me, and that doesn't help anyone. (Look at how he reacted to Roukan.)

Since when did you have to hold yourself responsible for other people's focus on their cases? Cowering away from making an opinion because it could slow down his reread is not Townie, and it's definitely not Town!Kilga.
Besides, all the reread would do is give him a new case and a new target. You said yourself here that moving a vote doesn't make earlier transgressions disappear, so why does that line of thinking suddenly stop applying when it comes to Zak? And thirdly, there's a difference between yelling at him unnecessarily and acknowledging the case exists and even just saying 'waiting on Zak's reread'. ##Unvote; Vote: Kilga

Neo produces...a wall of nothing but IIoA. Wow.

[Serela]

Neo produces...a wall of nothing but IIoA. Wow.

...so I really should have just not posted it when it ended without enough evidence for a vote , then? Greeaaat ;_;

Maybe I'll do just Kilga next. And try to keep it a lot shorter.

[Pesco]

Rat cut:
Neo: You make a big post of words on a player.

So what?

It has not been good for anything and is full of obvious crap that we can figure out on our own if we read her posts.

Still think Neo is scum and from end of day wagon analysis, I think Excal is likely town. ScumNeo and Zak being on Excal would be retarded play for a bus. If we didn't have people disappearing at deadline, even a tripleDeath could have happened with how the votes were spread.

Sodium's jump on Neo felt pretty throwaway since the pressure on him looked good enough to secure a lynch. This is still with the mind that Neo is scum, and Sodium isn't above a kneejerk bus reaction when the odds start looking bad.

Now the Kefit wagon, I have much rage for Kefit not hammering Neo and just getting a replacement. Especially when he talked about how a townie should simply vote the other guy in such a situation. I'm still not really seeing anything wrong with Kilga. In the event that he is scum, it's not likely we can catch him so early. I really need some more time to look over HW's voting to figure it out.

Enough with the cuts!

##Maul Neo

[Sodium]

HW:
PESCO ASKED ME TO CLARIFY. I THEN PROCEEDED TO TRY TO CLARIFY. CAPS, ATTENTION, ETC.

Read Post 93 again.

Lurkers should be given some attention as well I believe; I'm counting 3. Cut by a scamming booth with pretty much the same idea.
Speaking of, I would like their opinion. NS? HW?

this seemed to me like it was encouraging people to vote moar lurkers.

Okay, why the hell was me voting Excal scummy? I said that he was second on my list of people I found scummy.  I voted him instead of NS first because I was waiting for NS to post. Once he did, I moved my vote to NS because that wall was not good.

It's as if he wanted to distance himself from a scumwagon as much as possible before his death so it could not be held against him

I have no idea what the hell you mean here. Why would scumMe want to distance away from a wagon that would flip scum?

Uh yeah, I think you just repeated Rou's case with moar words and with terribad things added. How nice.
---
FAV, there are lots of fish to fry, but Kilga isn't one of them. Rou, you too.

Excal, no posts, etc.

Meh. Rou and Pesco are neutral, leaning town. I base this on Roukan is doing some hunting, and that it wouldn't make much sense for scumPesco to bank on town following his case. Still don't like Baity for some odd reason, probably gut.

I don't really like HW for putting out a bunch of words that say what Rou said, with added nonsense such as attacking me because I didn't add anything onto the Excal case when I had 3 hours left, and Excal hadn't posted for 24 hours. There's other stuff, like how he didn't read what I said above my Excal vote(hint: It'll answer your question of why I didn't vote NS first). His interactions with Zakeri were also odd. Read Kilga's post for that.

No one's scummier to me than Excal currently though.

Huh, Pesco just killed Neo I think. Waiting for flip then.

This post took way too long.

[FallenAngelVI]

Rou: No it was not clear that no-one was willing to make that jump. Baity suddenly re-read Neo and switched from Zak just before deadline; why is it so implausible that someone else could've done the same, going from Kefit to Zak? Alice said Zak was his 2nd suspect, huh what had expressed previous suspicion of Zak, Excal could've reappeared having read Zak's entire day 1 and switched. Neither I nor anyone else can tell whether people're suddenly going to switch their votes. Zak was still a viable lynch pending one person on the Kefit wagon switching, and how is the fact that I stayed on my main suspect (who was scum) who I'd been on the entire day when he was still a viable lynch a point against me?

As for Neo SK: We had a second kill last night and now Pesco claims day-vig in #285 (he's clearly not claiming night-vig because there's no reason to). Day-vig is obviously verifiable and therefore he's unlikely faking. If day-vig Pesco is town (which I'm more inclined to believe, partially because of the nature of the role and because he's claiming now rather than holding on for a LYLO-snatch win or using it to kill town when he's in danger of being lynched) then there's almost inevitably an SK in the game, because I don't see town having a day-vig and night-vig. Again, from reading a metric ton of games, the 1-shot BP ability is an incredibly common ability given to an SK to give them a fighting chance (otherwise a random NK on them = loss). SK is an anti-town faction that needs to be lynched/killed for town to win... so, uh, if I think he's an SK I'm going to say he's an SK. It's a theory and one I'd rather propose now while I'm still alive. The 1-shot BP claim really makes me suspect he's an SK as opposed to fake-claiming scum, because a) 1-shot BP might as well be in the dictionary definition of SK and b) if he were scum, why would he fake-claim 1-shot BP following a hammer unnecessarily like he did, and run the risk of a counter-claim/claim which casts doubt on his? I also said I vaguely understand the reasons for the dropped suspicions on him; my inclination is that, if he were scum, his scumbuddies wouldn't really take any serious risks for him, but it's an inconclusive gut feeling, and if he were SK instead of scum then it would explain why his non-existent buddies seemingly didn't try to bail him out somehow.

Carth: I basically hadn't looked at Neo at all at that point; I'd practically forgotten he was playing and his wagon/case came up late while I was typing up #225 (which was eaten by IE the first around). By the time I'd posted it I had no intention of reading anymore, and I still saw the Zak lynch as viable for the reasons I've set out to Rou at the top of this post. In #238 I volunteered to read Neo and make the casting vote come morning, because it was 1AM, I was exhausted and I flat out didn't care at that point. Then Baity posted and I realised it was probably better to use as much of the time as we could. Then Kefit self-destructed while I was asleep and... yeah.

Neo in #297: God, seriously? If I had more time I'd fill you in on the backstory of why I'm in this game and why I've been absent from the internet for the past year. Cut by ISO on me which actually made me laugh; thanks for that. Also cut by Pesco vigging you.

[Serela]

Next Mafia, I need to think less and vote more, because I'm obviously doing everything wrong. Bleh.

*waits for Serp to modconfirm my dea-oh wait a minute

if I'm a one-shot Bulletproof, doesn't that mean I live through Pesco's vig? Honestly I'm ready to die at this point since I've dug myself into a hole already, but I just realized that.

[Pesco]

Since we don't know when Serp is coming, are you town or scum or whatever the hell else?

[FinnKaenbyou]

how is the fact that I stayed on my main suspect (who was scum) who I'd been on the entire day when he was still a viable lynch a point against me?

You've misinterpreted me here. I was not saying that your staying on Zak was a point against you, I was just struggling to understand why Kilga said that you were good for it and then said me jumping late when the case had basically stopped being talked about makes me look worse. I'm holding to this - no-one had declared intent to switch to Zakeri, no-one had seemed more interested in voting Zakeri than who they were already following, Zak wasn't adding anything new to use as a case against him, and so moving to the Neo lynch instead makes perfect sense to me.

I was getting confused. I thought Pesco had been claiming to be responsible for the Zak kill last night, which I could easily believe given how hard he followed him. And now he's apparently killed Neo and Serp needs to show up and tell us what the hell just happened.

[Serela]

Since we don't know when Serp is coming, are you town or scum or whatever the hell else?

Town. But even if I live through the vig due to my ability and somehow don't get lynched afterwards, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do, since apparently I'm nearly as bad as Zent was at playing.

[Pesco]

Sodium would have been a more likely kill if I was night vig.

Town. But even if I live through the vig due to my ability and somehow don't get lynched afterwards, I don't know what the hell I'm going to do, since apparently I'm nearly as bad as Zent was at playing.

That's fine enough for me. You aren't dead because I didn't use my proper kill command. Your reaction time eases my read on you. Now start paying attention and actually analysing stuff.

Still have my kill for the day. Considering Sodium, HW or FAV after a reread.

[Excal]

Blarg, catching up.  Will make post before leaving today.

[Pesco]

Excal probably deserves to get shot too. Forgot he existed.

[Excal]

Won't hold it against you, but honestly, don't you think that it'd be slightly better to use that ability for a second Town lynch rather than just heading off on your own?

[Pesco]

Hence why I'm rereading instead of shooting you first. Give these guys time to get over what I just did.

[FinnKaenbyou]

In terms of huh what, while I can't deny that his position on Zakeri is bordering on the convenient, I prefer Sodium as a suspect because HW made an effort to contribute, and I prefer Kilga as a suspect because mentioning the case and agreeing with it but finding someone else scummier seems more likely to be derpTown than not mentioning it at all.

[Serela]

I hit enter while partway through typing this and the page went into the void. Huh. It doesn't seem to have been posted so whatever.

Looked over Sodium, he seems fine to me. I don't see anything scummy about him other then that he isn't posting quite as much as others; but I don't see it to be an extreme amount like Kefit/K4U/Furienify/Alice from last game.

Excal, there's hardly anything to look over. He's one of the people I'd like to lynch, but we've gotten so little from him recently that I can't justify this feeling; unless that lack of contribution continues and becomes justification for a vote in itself.

Pesco, if he's a Day-vig roleclaiming+using it, I really don't feel like he's scum. Plus that mindhax he just pulled on me... I seriously don't think scum would be bothering with that stunt to make me look less scummy.

Need to look over HW, and my brain isn't together enough to pull out any kind of judgement on Kilga right now. Waiting on a post from Excal, who is currently my prime target for voting as soon as I can actually justify the action.

[Serela]

...am I doing it the right way, now? D:

[Excal]

Ugh...  hate these dives.  Alright, got about half the material read, and I'll have to let it digest for a bit before I can get anything I have full trust in.  But, general status report, and notes to myself.

Don't think I've noticed anything that's been missed by other people.

My opinions on Rou have basically flipped.  Why?  Solid argumentation, and the way he was pushing for Zak early on.  That doesn't have the hallmarks of an early bus.

Pesco...  I cannot get a read on, at all.  And not for the usual reasons.  Second biggest source of culture shock outside of the acronyms.

Benny, there's something about his interactions with Zak and Pesco around the end of the joke votes that caught my eye.  Still not entirely sure what it is, but I want to read it over.

Kilga, Rou's points about him are...  definately some signs of it early on, with a sharp attack on someone looking at Zak, and the way he blew off the case.  still not convinced, but it sounds like I haven't reached the damning bits of evidence yet.

Serela, still not seeing the case, and vaguely wondering how they got into a sudden death.  Might change as I finish the trawl though.  Though, definately feeling some worries about how primed he is to vote for me.  I mean, if the lurking charges aren't enough (and I definately deserve pressure votes to put up at this point) then I fail to see how being ready to pounce on possible flaws in my reasoning is a desireable thing.  It just makes you sound like you've already made up your mind, and you're just waiting for me to give you a reason that you think will look good to jump on me.

[Pesco]

Sodium: Zakpass, forgets about Zak, votes Excal which puts him ahead of Zak. I think this one is a more telling wagon swing move to let Zak slip.

HW: IffyZak, place Kefit over Zak. The stuff in the posts aren't exactly selling well, as if the intention was to push the Kefit wagon.

Kilga: Zak is uninteresting - Also starts the Kefit wagon in this post. But not a point against him as scum would not take risks like starting a wagon. Kilga as scum isn't ballsy enough to do that sort of thing on D1.

Excal: Kefitjump looks pretty weak in retrospect if you claim that you had been reading. Zak voting Excal to even the wagons swings me to reading town here.

Benny: Fluffed around with this post. Of the 5 mentioned, 1 known town and scum. Excluding myself, I read the other 2 as town atm. Benny just hasn't been giving me good feelings.

Carthrat: Anyone else think this might be coaching?

FAV got onto Zak and held on early enough. I think that's enough for a tentative clear.

Baity and Rou are good for the time being.

In summary, most willing to vig one of Sodium, HW or Benny.

[Serela]

Sodium: Zakpass, forgets about Zak, votes Excal which puts him ahead of Zak. I think this one is a more telling wagon swing move to let Zak slip.

Excal: Kefitjump looks pretty weak in retrospect if you claim that you had been reading. Zak voting Excal to even the wagons swings me to reading town here.

Hmm. Okay, Sodium isn't looking as good as I thought.

And man, I can't believe I didn't even reread Zak's posts after he was confirmed scum. I guess I can get off of Excal's back, but I'm still not feeling awesome about him. Then again my instincts are terrible and I should ignore them

Went back and reread all of Zakeri's posts. Jokevote+FoS on huhwhat and MSB could be distancing. His Kilga guilt trip comments doesn't make me feel any better about Kilga. He jumps on Benny, Rou jumps on Benny, Zak supports Rou and the Benny case in general.

So I'd rather not be lynching Benny (like Pesco says he might with his vig), I never felt he was scummy in the first place and now there's the confirmed scum that had been going after him.

Anyway, then Zak goes after Huhwhat for jokevotes and "active lurking". Then Zak makes a fluff post and apologizes to HW. It's a fairly weak case, and he then APOLOGIZED about it, so this doesn't clear HW in my eyes at all. He even says again later that it's a bad case. In his next post, he goes after FAV/Excal/Kefit and votes Excal. They're probably all town from what we know right now, which makes sense; and if FAV is town, that also means going after Kilga is genuine and not a scum tactic.

After that, Zak does some boring things, starts going after me, then Sudden Death shenanigans happen and etc.

At this point, Sodium and Kilga are the ones I'm more worried about, and I still need to look over Huhwhat to see how I feel about him.

[Serp]

VOTE COUNT  -  MaullarMaullar Edition

Kilgamayan (2):  FAV, Roukanken
MSB (1):  Roukanken, huh what
Excal (1):  MSB
huh what (1):  Kilgamayan

Not Voting (6):  Pesco, NeoSerela, Baity, Excal, Benny, Carthrat

Six votes are required to hammer.  About 54 hours remain in the day.

[FinnKaenbyou]

But not a point against him as scum would not take risks like starting a wagon. Kilga as scum isn't ballsy enough to do that sort of thing on D1.

This sounds pretty much like a meta clear to me, and one I don't agree with. I see it as being in Kilga's character to see the wagon that everyone else misses, regardless of his affiliation (and especially here in MotK) and he argues it so well that no-one can really hold it against him. I've seen him agree with the running wagons in Meme Mafia as scum, but only after his attempted case on me saw no response.

Neo throwing out his beliefs to agree with Pesco in 'Sodium may be bad after all' makes my forehead hurt. Benny probably needs to show up and say something in response to Pesco putting him on his List Of People He Wants To Maul.

[Serela]

MSB is voting Excal makes me go "hmm" but that's nothing really incriminates MSB or anything. My brain likes the connection though.

Okay, looked over HW. Starts with jokevote on MSB, then votes Zak. Considering how Zak voted HW and FoS'd MSB... they all kinda connect together, y'know? Still a pathetic reason only worth noting and nothing more, moving on. Next, HW goes after pretty much everyone who's posted more then the first few jokevotes, and settles on voting Pesco, who I believe to be town for the reason I said a few posts ago. Then he agrees with me that one of Excal's points against Zak wasn't right; the main point there being that he's agreeing with something clearing Zak.

Threatens to vote Kilga if he doesn't get serious. Attacks Excal and Sodium, and gets on the Kefit case; attacking Excal and voting Kefit are both actions that make me think "scum" right now. The attack on Sodium, I'm not sure what to do with that, though. HW pokes Alice. Posts string preferred lynch string Kefit > Zak > Serela > Sodium > Everyone else; I don't know where to go with that either, honestly. Depends on whether the Zak at 2nd is honest or not, which we'll never know without a HW flip. Then he brings up how Excal hasn't posted, and... that's about it till D2. Sudden Death is boring. In D2 he basically votes MSB, and for good reasons.

I think either huhwhat or MSB are scum. I don't know which. I also want to look at Carth's actions now.

[Pesco]

A bit of a meta clear and a bit of what-is-good-scum-play.

[Sodium]

Dayvigs are fun. Meh, I prefer that you vig HW, for reasons I think should be obvious.
---
NeoSerela: Don't see why Pesco linking posts makes you change your opinion at all if you've been reading and thinking.
Oh, and any good reasons for voting me? Those are Rou's. The rest is either HW not reading, or stating things that are wrong.


Guize, just because Zak was scum doesn't mean his case was good. Last thing I'm going to say about why I didn't feel strongly about the Zak case at all.


Excal's Catchup post is Catchup. Want to see his full reread post, and explain his Kefit vote.


Rou, why does your piece of meta necessarily beat Pesco's piece of meta?
Oh, and Benny is away for most of today anyways.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Rou, why does your piece of meta necessarily beat Pesco's piece of meta?

Because mine is based on the last game that Kilga was scum in, where I saw him trying (and admittedly failing) to start a case on me in the same way he started a case on Kefit here?

As for if it's good scum-play not to bring up new cases, Pesco, does that mean that everyone who started a new wagon is therefore Townie?

[Pesco]

They are most certainly less likely to be scum when looking over the events of D1.

[Pesco]

EBWOP: For what reason would you prefer me to NOT VIG Benny?

[Sodium]

I think Benny's pretty much obvderptown, and he isn't even here right now because of real life.