Things you Hate/Like about Touhou

[ふねん1]

Just poppin' in to say this is very unlikely, ZUN has been progressing more and more towards additive blending each consecutive game he makes. Very pretty, but unfortunately is a huge pain in the ass to dodge on Hard/Lunatic.

I'm not sure I see additive blending becoming a real problem until UFO actually (haven't played DS yet, so don't know that one for sure). But I agree, the nature of the bullets' appearance makes them harder to dodge than they should be. I'd be perfectly fine with them if they're used for static/micromem. attacks though - then I'd be able to treat them exactly like any other kind of bullet.

Adding "musically synched stages" to my list of loved things in Touhou. Makes Touhou feel so much more organized when compared with other shmup games where they're just a clusterfuck of bullets thrown vaguely in your general direction with no rhyme or reason.

Very much this. I can't believe I forgot to include "when the good points come together" in my "likes" list before - such a feature really makes the Touhou games stand out beyond all others. Shame on me for forgetting about it for even a moment. :V

[Matsuri]

As much as I hate saying it, the more ZUN uses alpha bullets, the more I'm going to dislike playing his games. Yeah, it's all pretty to watch, but a bitch to dodge.

[Tengukami]

It's a dilemma for me. Yes, the glowing bullets are hard to dodge. But if I'm doing a spell card over and over in Double Spoiler, I want it to look pretty. And the glowing bullets do.

[Aisha]

Just poppin' in to say this is very unlikely, ZUN has been progressing more and more towards additive blending each consecutive game he makes. Very pretty, but unfortunately is a huge pain in the ass to dodge on Hard/Lunatic. Let's hope the more micrododgable patterns have some of the few alpha bullets in his arsenal?

Yeah, I noticed them here and there in MoF and SA, but UFO really took it too far. I don't think they would be so bad if they just had a solid outline so they don't become a solid mass of white when they cluster together.

I also don't like the new lasers ZUN uses. Not only do they suffer from the same additive blend shit, making it very difficult to assess their trajectories, but I find that their hitboxes are very unforgiving. I'm now mortified to get near them. And they curve sometimes. :V I was much more comfortable with the lasers used in Touhou 6-8.

[Sen]

I actually think the lasers used in SA were the best. UFO's look pretty, but the curving trajectory makes it almost impossible to read, and MoF lasers are annoying since the hitboxes are rectangle-shaped when the lasers themselves are pointed.

[Iryan]

Like:
Games; Music; Games synchronized to the music; characters; productive fan community;

Dislike:
Memes; Overabundance of fan dumb;


I'm also another member of the crusade against additive-blended bullets.

So... pretty much everything Naut said.

[Tonepoet]

Just off of the top of my head:

Likes:

Disikes:

Tasteful fan-works. [Subjective] The character designs: Simple ones remain distinctive and classy; complex ones don't look too far fetched or busy. Virtually all of them match. The music. Shoot 'em Ups are fun. Lots of the dialog. The unique take on a rural fantasy setting. Magic. Pretty Colors How the games somehow pull off gender imbalance with dignity. [Most other works even coming close have obvious motives and are cheapened by this...]

Distasteful fan-works. [Subjective] Yukurris are a crime against nature. The many complications caused by being an exotic good. C.C.P.G.S.S. Hand cramps. [Yes this is Touhou specific: I don't usually get them playing most other games.]

Can't think of much else right now. If not only for the sake of well outlined writing, I wish I could balance out the list more. However it's only natural that I like it more than I hate it, otherwise I'd not be here. XP

[Aisha]

• C.C.P.G.S.S.
  

Haha.. I remember this. It's ridiculous.I really wish that such a compilation disc were made available for purchase once again. I'd buy it in a heartbeat. It also makes me wonder--does ZUN even own the copyrights to the PC-98 games, or do they belong to Amusement Makers (like I think they do)? It might explain Reimu's name change and why ZUN is a little reluctant to resurrect things from those games.

[Solais]

I already wrote here, but I think that Touhou is better than other shmups, as it has a Soul. When I look at Arcade Shmups I just see mostly bullshit that exist solely to destroy you so you spend more money on the game, while most of the games are really, really just the same game over and over again, with a little different graphics. Even the music is almost the same. But Touhou... it's like the game has a Soul; it was made by one, single man, who poured his free time, love, feelings, talent, and hard work into making a game for an actually very little market, where he sells the games for very little money. And while he makes the games for himself, he actually thinks about the players too; if some of you followed ZUN's twitter around the development of DS, you could see how he suffered to make an enjoyable game to us, and not a sadist game to a few.

[Zengeku]

Likes:

- Generally high quality gameplay
- Consistently awesome music
- Characters that manages to be awesome personalities while being adorable/sexy (may or may not be both simultaneously)
- Effortless lives-systems. (All Touhou games but UFO basically)
- Neat amount of resources that allow relatively painless 1cc'ing while still maintaining the challenge of the gameplay in the shape of perfect running and timeouts. (That's how i see the Touhou challenge anyway.)
-When the stages aren't being long as hell.

Dislikes:

-The games have a pretty large amount of attacks that gives me painful frustration. Attacks that destroy you and isn't nice about it either making it feel as if its the game that's being badly designed even if it was your own mistake.

- The UFO scoring/resource grinding system. To be honest, its not at all a problem for me as a scoring system but too much bad blood is between the UFO system and my playing of the game. I just want my resources given on a silver platter and then use them to the best of my ability. I hate having to work for them. - And this is regardless of what you can do to simplify the process.

-When ZUN sacrifices gameplay in favor of aesthetics. Those glowing bullets are pretty but make things needlessly harder.

-UFO Lasers. I don't care if there are any nerds tactics that works wonders. I don't care if i'm just being a horrible player (yeah, those perfect boss runs doesn't mean that one should at least have a chance in the new game does it?). The sight of that crap disgusts me and that will probably never change.

UFO Stages. I don't know why but for some reason the stages in the latest installment of the shooter series are just plain bad compared to the good old days. I can't argue for it either. Its just preference.

Myself and everyone i ever spoke to. After reviewing personal posts and others posts i spot similar tendencies. Complaining about stuff we are no good at. People who call Yuugi bullshit and me calling Ichirin bullshit despite the fact that both have been proven to be perfectly manageable. Often the sucking comes from lack of practice. I know i often do this myself and i am often left ashamed of it later.

Also, Banamatic. He exists.

Oh and Formless for beating me to that timeout of Ghost Wheels and for liking UFO

Myself for not having perfected Utsuho, Satori, Aya and Kanako yet.

Last three of course not being serious.

[LHCling]

The main thing I don't like about Touhou is that each game feels so derivative
enemies that are integrated into the backgrounds

What about PC-98? LLS had TurretFairies^TM in various stages. Though, I do wish ZUN recreated the games or at least brought back concepts that were present and then dropped later on. Also, I believe that UFO is actually quite different as well in terms of "gameplay", don't you think so as well?

Boss Milk

エスプレイド

I think I've said enough there.
Likes:

• ~10% of the Fanbase
• (Most) Music
• (Most) Characters
• Some Score Systems
• AB (Additive-Blended) Bullets in most cases
• Curvy lasers
• Dialogue / Story
• "Macrododging"

Dislikes:

• Excluding the ~10% above, ~30% of the Fanbase (so 27% of the total for those interested in the whole %age)
• The rest of the Score Systems
• AB Bullets in the very few cases where things get stupid
• Random Boss Movement
• "Micrododging"

[Zengeku]

What is an AB bullet?

[LHCling]

additive-blended bullets

Sorry about that. I thought that because people used the term a ridiculous number of times in the thread already, I concluded that I could use an abbreviation and hope that people made the connection. Obviously, I wasn't thinking straight seeing as I'm really, really tired at this point (RL-related; on a Sunday of all things). Editing.

...I think this is probably a good point for me to get to sleep.

[Zengeku]

Sorry about that. I thought that because people used the term a ridiculous number of times in the thread already, I concluded that I could use an abbreviation and hope that people made the connection. Obviously, I wasn't thinking straight seeing as I'm really, really tired at this point (RL-related; on a Sunday of all things). Editing.

...I think this is probably a good point for me to get to sleep.

Yeah, go home and sleep forever!
Oh that kind of bullet... i think i'll be needing some sleep as well.

[Aisha]

What about PC-98? LLS had TurretFairies^TM in various stages.

Since then I think ZUN has forgotten that the ground exists. :V

Though, I do wish ZUN recreated the games or at least brought back concepts that were present and then dropped later on. Also, I believe that UFO is actually quite different as well in terms of "gameplay", don't you think so as well?

Eh.. At first I thought that UFO was taking a step in the right direction, but as I've reflected on it more, I've concluded that's it's just more of the same. UFO is different in that it gives the player a choice in how they want to progress, but I didn't find it substantial enough to drastically alter the gameplay; in other words, I didn't find myself playing it any differently than I do any other Touhou game. The scoring system itself is also just the one used in SA, but repackaged as a UFO. In both games, you graze to increase the value of the point items, and cash-in by collecting above the POC or by utilizing the game's gimmick. Sure there might be (many) differences when it comes down to intricacies, but I think the general formula is pretty much the same. When I said that I want to see ZUN deliver a different and fresh experience, I meant that I want to see a difference in gameplay as stark as the one between DoDonPachi Dai Ou Jou and Espgaluda.

[Tengukami]

Since then I think ZUN has forgotten that the ground exists. :V

.... what does this even mean?

[Sapz]

.... what does this even mean?

Means no grounded enemies; things like turrets, tanks that move along the ground, things that pop out of the ground, etc etc. They move (or don't move) independently of the screen scrolling, basically, so you usually want to go out of your way to destroy them before they get too low on the screen. I'd like to see some of these as well, I think they could make the stage sections a lot more interesting (at the minute they're pretty weak compared to the boss fights, IMO). Kind of difficult with the abstract background thing ZUN's got going on at the minute, though. :V

[Tengukami]

Oh, that. I guess that'd be a neat gimmick but I can't say it's something I find missing from the game.

[?lice Bl?ckb?rn]

I also wouldn't mind seeing him take the next step forward and put a bit more into the stage backgrounds. Having different types of enemies that are integrated into the backgrounds (yes, like an arcade shooter) would bring so much more life into the stages and make them a lot more interesting. Currently I just find them so abstract and usually unmemorable. Stage 4 of MoF is one of my favorites in the series simply because it has enemies emerging out from behind a waterfall.

I actually like this a lot. I have bad/weird eyes with notoriously bad contrast sensitivity, and a lot of shmup backgrounds are so goddamn noisy that my eyes at times stop being able to differentiate between bullets, enemies, portions of the background that *won't* kill you for a change, and medals/point items/powerups/1ups/bomb items/etc. It all blends together into this weird mess. With the Touhou backgrounds, that's not an issue, they're usually very simple and made predominantly of solid colours, and thus it's virtually always easy to see when something is moving overtop of the damn things and if it's a bullet or a 1up/point item/power item/etc.

Other things that I like:
THE PATTERNS. Probably the biggest draw of Touhou for me is the complex patterns that boss spellcards have that add a puzzlegame aspect to the shmup gameplay.
Fairly consistently good gameplay, for that matter.
The amount of lives is nice, warrants less grinding for a 1cc while still letting you pull off stuff like No Bombs 1ccs if you really want to put a crapton of time into playing the games.
The music. The music is simply excellent.
For that matter, the synchronization of the games to the music - this is something that needs to be done more often in shmups, it alone makes playing a given stage approximately 10x more awesome for me.

Dislikes:
Virtually all of the fanbase. Jesus Arc-Welding Christ, the fandumb just gets to ludicrous extents half of the time.
BOSS MILK/STAGE MILK-based scoring systems. Blargh. And people wonder why I don't play Touhou for score at all :V
UFO curvylasers. What was ZUN drinking when he designed those?
UFO's power system, for that matter. Losing a whole 1.xx power upon death? What the shit, way to make recovering from a death in UFO like 10x harder for absolutely no good reason, ZUN.
Speaking of fandumb, virtually all of the memes, but that's neither here nor there.

Indifferent:
Characters, plot, doujins. Meh. Really couldn't care less about the vast majority of this stuff, it isn't terribly interesting. Especially the doujins, which I find are all terribly boring and usually also fairly asinine, tbqh.

[Helion]

Love:
-THE MUSIC - it's what got me into the games
-The gameplay, when it's hard but fair type
-The boss fights, especially Extra stages

Hate:
-The stages, they are generally boring and falling asleep through them means chances for retarded deaths and downward spirals. PCB stage 4 is a particularly bad offender
-Everything to do with memorization, especially micromemorizing patterns.
-Safespot attacks

Indifferent:
-Bananamatic's arguments: I like Touhou AND Dodonpachi, your arguments count as preaching to che choir.

[theshirn]

LOVE:
STORY OF EASTERN WONDERLAND

HATE:
EVERYTHING ELSE

see, that's trolling

[Trinket]

Like:
The characters
The danmaku patterns
The music

Dislike:
Yukari not being a loli.
Phantasmagoria characters (Not that there's anything wrong with them, but I just somehow don't take those games seriously enough to get to know the characters.)
In PCB, when you get that cherry border, and then you feel all "Ahh, safety" and then it goes away~
Suika not appearing enough.


Something like that, I didn't put much thought into it

[KrackoCloud]

I honestly don't have much to say in this.
I really like Touhou for its great music, extensive cast, and pretty patterns.
I don't like how you're pretty much always forced to start over from the beginning when you lose in the games. I mean, it makes sense and there's not many good alternatives, but... It just bothers me how I have to start at Stage 1 when all my problems start at Stage 4.

[Tengukami]

It just bothers me how I have to start at Stage 1 when all my problems start at Stage 4.

1. Study your replays for mistakes.
2. Spam continues until you unlock Stage 4 in Practice Start.
3. Practice til you got that sucker down.

[Ghaleon]

1. Study your replays for mistakes.
2. Spam continues until you unlock Stage 4 in Practice Start.
3. Practice til you got that sucker down.

This, you realize Touhou is one of very very few shmups that has a practice stage mode? (talking to kracko here). I'm not really sure what you expect.

[Chaotic Phoenixma]

That's helped a bit to a lot on every stage 4 except PCB, where I still fail the stage every time.

[Aisha]

Plenty of shmups outside of MAME have a stage practice mode.

[Ghaleon]

Plenty of shmups outside of MAME have a stage practice mode.

I know, most shmups are on mame though >=P
edit: Just remember I even mentioned that as a benefit for being a non-arcade shmup.

[Azinth]

And MAME has savestates , which gives the player way more practicing options than just about any kind of stage practice can. :V

[Ghaleon]

And MAME has savestates , which gives the player way more practicing options than just about any kind of stage practice can. :V

That's a feature in Mame, not the actual game itself. You could theoretically use a cheat program for a non-mame game to give you unlimited lives or continues or whatever else but that wouldn't really count either.

*mumbles* I can't get them to work in my mame games either.. gah.