Author Topic: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3  (Read 178266 times)

nintendonut888

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #180 on: February 17, 2010, 08:01:55 AM »
Yeah, I've been using him. Also I'm pretty sure I outlined my Ran buffing strategy here just now. :V

Also, scratch that. Reimu level 139, lol. I got the bright idea that if I want to nuke the final boss, I have to pump more into my nukers' attacks. Patchy and Yugi now have about 2000 more magic and attack respectively. :3
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

trancehime

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #181 on: February 17, 2010, 08:48:04 AM »
Re: Remilia

It seems to be a general consensus that Remilia deserves a higher place than she does where I placed her. And it seems people seem to be going on a tirade against my decision to put her there. I'm not going to deny that she's a solid character. She's great for the majority of the main game. Theorycrafting and mathcrafting are probably going to make her appear very good, too. But there's a great deal of factors that come from practical use.

Quote
If their is a better character then Remi, then please tell me who, cause I used her trhought the game and Plus-Disk and she was fantastic, only being beaten out in dps by
Spoiler:
Sikieiki
, and even then she must use her 1st card to out-dps Remi.

Here are the people I found out-DPS Remi in my game, where practically everyone has over-the-top offensive stats:
Marisa w/ Magic Missile (Deals more damage on single turns)
Chen w/ Hououtenshi w/ buff, Flight of Idaten (Attacks twice to three times more than Remi)
Spoiler:
Aya w/ Peerless Wind God (Attacks twice more than Remi)
Orin w/ Catwalk (Attacks twice to four times more than Remi)
Mystia w/ Illustrado Dive (Attacks twice more than Remi)
Kanako w/ Medeteko Dance (Attacks twice to three times more than Remi)
Yuka w/ Flower Shot (Attacks twice more than Remi)

Almost everyone else deals more single-shot damage than Remi!

Quote
I personally think Remi is one of the best characters, but I haven't fully theorycrafted that material yet, so I wont really argue about it. But I played her post game too, up to level 450, and I cheated myself up to the 600s just to see winner. Now I know I didn't level up quite so much as you, but I really think that level 450 is pretty much the end of the game. I also saw no indication of Remi's dps getting worse.

The main issue is NOT that Remi's damage sucks. Because it's GOOD.

Just... everyone does it BETTER. Remi has innately WORSE base STR than your standard Base 16 STR character as a way to counter-act the powerful STR right at the beginning of the game, PLUS she has a buff. It's enough for her to keep up with the rest, but it's NOT enough for her to do really well on her own.

Quote
It's really dumb. As for her buff, yes buffing that stat is good. However, it comes with a paralize, which is worth it if she's your only source of buffing those stats yes. But there are so many other characters who buff those stats too, WITHOUT a nasty paralize.

This is the same logic I'm applying to for Remi, Remi has good damage, good self-buff, but many characters scale much better on the DPS scale than she does.

...

;-;

Spoiler:
Okay, I just blasted apart all of Mary's limbs, then...then...THAT. Overflowing Natural Power is bad enough, but having Djinn Storm as part of her regular lineup of attacks?! WTF? How much health does she have left at this point?

3.5m + 2.0m HP all in all, 5.5m HP for you to bust through.

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nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #182 on: February 17, 2010, 08:59:13 AM »
You saying that she has 2 million health once her limbs are gone? Greaaaat.

Doing some honest-to-god last grinding of the night, I picked up Scourge. All I can say is +_______+ This brings Yugi's attack over 20k. I do feel as though I'm wasting the huge magic buff it gives, but Reimu's the only person with worthwhile composite attacks, and she's too busy healing and buffing.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

LHCling

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #183 on: February 17, 2010, 09:09:42 AM »
1. *cough
Spoiler:
Dessert
cough* is a composite user and the damn best at doing her job
2. Once you learn the one very "special" tactic needed (which I won't tell, but maybe somebody else will and also not entirely related to 1), then all your problems would be solved. Of course, said tactic also carries certain risks
3. Something that I haven't though of yet

Until then:
:munch: I will enjoy watching you squirm
Spoiler:
Sorry, just an emotional high today

By the way, I couldn't help but feel rather disturbed about the concept of investing the Lv Up point into SPD. Thoughts?; is it worth it in the long run?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 09:11:53 AM by Baity »
[16:25] <Kuruminut> Shut up MS Word, "fangirlism" is totally a word
<>
[07:59] <Sapz> ベーティさんは馬鹿っぽいだろう、この「っぽい」好き者

nintendonut888

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #184 on: February 17, 2010, 09:13:56 AM »
For some reason I refuse to use that character. Maybe because everyone else uses her? Because she deals a little too much damage? The fact that a light breeze will OHKO her? I dunno, but I'm not using her.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #185 on: February 17, 2010, 09:22:39 AM »
By the way, I couldn't help but feel rather disturbed about the concept of investing the Lv Up point into SPD. Thoughts?; is it worth it in the long run?

I used to think this was a good idea. Because on paper moving faster is better than hitting harder. This is because if you move faster, you can also focus faster, and switch faster, and buff faster, etc.

However, later on I felt that this was not a good idea. The reason why is because of how speed gets converted into actual action bar filling potential. It's
100 speed = 1% per tick
200 speed = 2%
400 speed = 3%
700 = 4%
1100 = 5%
etc.

Early in the game, like 10 level up bonuses probably wont even equate to 1 point of speed since it ignores that first 100%.. Later in the game, each point of speed loses it's potency. Late in the game, characters with like 5X the speed as another character, BARELY move twice as fast, if that.

To make matters worse, because battles progress via "ticks", and you reach points where you're regenning over 10% of your bar per tick. You often have wasted speed, it doesn't carry over after your move. So For example, chen's buff with 99% action guage afterwards (I think it was 99%, I'm not sure atm), would delay you the exact same amount as though it had only 90% delay.

In the end, I feel spending a level up bonus on speed is even less valuable than spending it on an offensive stat, which in turn, is already inferior IMO to defensive stats.

For some reason I refuse to use that character. Maybe because everyone else uses her? Because she deals a little too much damage? The fact that a light breeze will OHKO her? I dunno, but I'm not using her.

Probably already figured this out, but after the first add goes down (by first I mean the one that spawns first, not the one you kill first), the boss is completely incapable of performing any sort of physical attack. Which means characters like patchy and yuyuko will suddenly become tanks, don't hide them in the back anymore.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 09:25:00 AM by Ghaleon »

trancehime

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #186 on: February 17, 2010, 09:25:03 AM »
You saying that she has 2 million health once her limbs are gone? Greaaaat.

No she has 2m HP once she uses Overflowing Natural Power

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Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #187 on: February 17, 2010, 09:28:58 AM »
Here's my fixed save file, everyone is 0 now, yay
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CJ38R646

I'll take this for a spin

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #188 on: February 17, 2010, 09:31:31 AM »
I'll take this for a spin

Lemmie know if it's 0 for you too or not, I'm rather confused about that other person's post mentioning skill levels being cranked, I have no idea what could cause that, if they are a druggy, or if they're talking to someone else (which no matter how I look at their post, I simply cannot see who else they could be replying to =\ )

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #189 on: February 17, 2010, 09:35:42 AM »
If there's any fixing needed, I'll reupload.

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #190 on: February 17, 2010, 12:02:34 PM »
Back at level 210 I went and murdered Final Boss again so the 100 item star would activate; wondering, she doesn't get that 2m HP reset if she doesn't use Overflowing Unnatural Power, right? I killed her before all her limbs died  :V

As for Ver.2, I actually was doing better against it then I thought I would (Considering people beat it 25 levels higher then my level), but then... I have one thing to say about that boss now. Rankain.

...I haven't played in a few days >: I'll get right to it after school! I'll try to resist playing on that uploaded NG+ save much.

If there's any fixing needed, I'll reupload.
All the characters on the 4th Page and Plus-Disk(5th) Page have the exact same affinities D:

From what I hear, this might be something that always happens when you do a New Game+.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 12:19:59 PM by NeoGenesis »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

trancehime

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #191 on: February 17, 2010, 01:27:17 PM »
Back at level 210 I went and murdered Final Boss again so the 100 item star would activate; wondering, she doesn't get that 2m HP reset if she doesn't use Overflowing Unnatural Power, right? I killed her before all her limbs died  :V

Yeah, she doesn't get it if she doesn't use OUP.

元素召唤 || pad & msl news translator robit
twitter xx motk resident whale

Serela

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #192 on: February 17, 2010, 01:30:37 PM »
By the way, after thinking I found a Feb.9th update on 2.06 (Afterwards I called myself an idiot because it was October 9th last year, it said 2/9 >: ), I realized the download for 2.06 I gave was outdated. The latest is 2.06b which might fix the NG+ issues.

http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/thLabyrinth/thLabyrinth_ver2.06b.zip
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 01:32:24 PM by NeoGenesis »
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Rikter

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #193 on: February 17, 2010, 02:08:03 PM »
Wait, my save file has skill levels on some of the characters?! gahh. I'll try and fix that too.

update: They're all zero for me.. You talkinga bout my save file? Everyone has 0 skill points and zero skill levels for me, does anybody else have that problem?

No no no everything is 0 I just want to use CE to make one character ridiculously overpowered for goofing around.

EDIT: Well I beat Yuugi I got lucky early on because she was using Irremoveable shackles most of the early battle. I also managed to lower her Mind with Alice's Holland Doll and Chen was able to switch in enough death Fodder for Knockout in 3 Steps for Patchy to use Silent Selene enough.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 02:55:51 PM by Hell Rikter »

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #194 on: February 17, 2010, 02:54:49 PM »
Wow. I must have used MASTER SPARK at the exact right moment in the
Spoiler:
Yukari
battle, as two Spear the Gungnirs with a completely unbuffed Remilia was enough to defeat her after her second Djinn Storm...

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #195 on: February 17, 2010, 02:58:12 PM »
No she has 2m HP once she uses Overflowing Natural Power

Somehow I have trouble believing you when you imply she's invincible before then. :x A video I saw of someone who massively overleveled for the fight killed her before she got a single hit off from Overflowing Natural Power, and most definitely did not deal 2 million.

Also, does Tenshi's sword thing work against Overflowing Natural Power? I'm not really planning on changing my team now, but it'd be good to know if it did destroy the buff.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

trancehime

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #196 on: February 17, 2010, 03:06:27 PM »
Somehow I have trouble believing you when you imply she's invincible before then. :x A video I saw of someone who massively overleveled for the fight killed her before she got a single hit off from Overflowing Natural Power, and most definitely did not deal 2 million.

Also, does Tenshi's sword thing work against Overflowing Natural Power? I'm not really planning on changing my team now, but it'd be good to know if it did destroy the buff.

Her first stage BEFORE using Overflowing Power is 3.5m HP or roundabout there

USING Overflowing Power resets the HP to 2m

errata: it is possible to defeat the boss before she uses it, but this is quite hard unless you intentionally over-grind

errata 2: overkill damage can be achieved

Also, Sword of Rapture is a FIXED PERCENTAGE to work. You can try to use it but you may see it miss a bit
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 03:10:26 PM by TranceHime »

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twitter xx motk resident whale

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #197 on: February 17, 2010, 03:11:17 PM »
...I see. D: Thanks for that clarification, I guess I'll use the time once the last limb goes down to prepare for her (though it always seems to coincide with her battle gauge being nearly ready DX) If it's 2 million though, I must have been fairly close that one time...

Today. When I come from school home today, I will grind until she goes down. This ends...TODAY!

* Donut raises his sword in the air
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #198 on: February 17, 2010, 03:29:10 PM »
By the way, after thinking I found a Feb.9th update on 2.06 (Afterwards I called myself an idiot because it was October 9th last year, it said 2/9 >: ), I realized the download for 2.06 I gave was outdated. The latest is 2.06b which might fix the NG+ issues.

http://www.geocities.jp/aaa_3peso/thLabyrinth/thLabyrinth_ver2.06b.zip

According to 3peso's blog, besides the usual warnings that it may be a "trap patch" that breaks things, the only thing 2.06b does over 2.06 is handle compatibility with DirectX9 (Direct9.0c and before users may have problems). And that it MIGHT fix problems that Windows 7 compatibility errors, though he's not sure.

Rikter

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #199 on: February 17, 2010, 03:56:59 PM »
Wait does Tam's Foe just do Flowing Hellfire at random? Because it used it twice in a row on me...

Guess Grinding will be very needed.

Garlyle

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #200 on: February 17, 2010, 05:21:56 PM »
Wait does Tam's Foe just do Flowing Hellfire at random? Because it used it twice in a row on me...

Guess Grinding will be very needed.

It shouldn't.  I know LATER Foes (Yes there are more later...) can potentially repeat it, but the first one shouldn't.

If it did, that's just horrible luck.  It should be waiting 3-4 attacks between uses.

If you build yourself a tank with high FIR Affinity and SPD (Meiling?), you should be able to survive it, then just swap your other characters back into hiding after it uses a couple turns and drag them back out after it uses it again.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2010, 05:30:29 PM by Garlyle »

Jaimers

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #201 on: February 17, 2010, 06:27:15 PM »
Only once? ...ehehehehe :V

Umm, yeah... wow.
She added another... thing, then buffed herself again and again and again and again. D:
So far
Spoiler:
Yukari
is being harder than
Spoiler:
Great Stamp and Flandre
combined. It's that damn last phase. She drains all my sp and then goes on a rampage!
I probably have to fire a Spark before she does the second Dojin Storm but that's going to be tricky to time well. :S
The Dojin Storms happen at scripted times, right?

Anyway, should I have
Spoiler:
Kaguya
at this point? I remember Donut talking about her earlier than 16F, but she's still having a daaaamn good time on 12F.

Pesco

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #202 on: February 17, 2010, 07:04:45 PM »
Lemmie know if it's 0 for you too or not, I'm rather confused about that other person's post mentioning skill levels being cranked, I have no idea what could cause that, if they are a druggy, or if they're talking to someone else (which no matter how I look at their post, I simply cannot see who else they could be replying to =\ )

Only thing I see wrong is that everyone has the same resists, affinities and recovery. It's going to take a while to fix all that :/

Garlyle

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #203 on: February 17, 2010, 07:39:48 PM »
Only thing I see wrong is that everyone has the same resists, affinities and recovery. It's going to take a while to fix all that :/
Notice that they're all Reimu's basic resists/affinities/recovery?  @_@

Anima Zero

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #204 on: February 17, 2010, 07:57:39 PM »
Umm, yeah... wow.
She added another... thing, then buffed herself again and again and again and again. D:
So far
Spoiler:
Yukari
is being harder than
Spoiler:
Great Stamp and Flandre
combined. It's that damn last phase. She drains all my sp and then goes on a rampage!
I probably have to fire a Spark before she does the second Dojin Storm but that's going to be tricky to time well. :S
The Dojin Storms happen at scripted times, right?

Anyway, should I have
Spoiler:
Kaguya
at this point? I remember Donut talking about her earlier than 16F, but she's still having a daaaamn good time on 12F.

Djinn Storms are scripted most likely.  It gets used after the first 1/3rd of her HP is gone, then again is used at 2/3rds roughly.  At least that's my assumption.

Kicker is that it is possible to take her out after a Djinn Storm, but before she gets her next turn afterwards if you're lucky enough.

Also she is vulnerable to stat debuffs incase you're unaware. 
Spoiler:
Reisen
is a good choice for this with
Spoiler:
Discarder
.

Regarding
Spoiler:
Kaguya
, you need to amass enough BP between
Spoiler:
Mokou, Eirin, Reisen, and Sanae
in order to have a chance at her.
"I never cared about justice, and I don't recall ever calling myself a hero..." Zero, Mega Man Zero 4

Rikter

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #205 on: February 17, 2010, 07:59:23 PM »
Tam's Foe Loves Spamming Flowing Hellfire on me. Sometimes it uses it three times in a row...

Anyways where can I get more Bomb Rings?

Barrakketh

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #206 on: February 17, 2010, 08:08:32 PM »
Tam's Foe Loves Spamming Flowing Hellfire on me. Sometimes it uses it three times in a row...

Anyways where can I get more Bomb Rings?
The item page says enemies drop them on 3F.
Cheating? I cannot even wrap my head around the point of it. Wouldn't you know you had cheated? How on Earth could you maintain crisp certainty of your superiority to all others? And if you're unable to do that, what's the point of anything?

Ghaleon

  • Long twintail-o-holic
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #207 on: February 17, 2010, 08:52:06 PM »
Tam's Foe Loves Spamming Flowing Hellfire on me. Sometimes it uses it three times in a row...

Anyways where can I get more Bomb Rings?

I personally found that those bosses were extremely difficult to survive the opener for. But afterwards, were easy. Even if they cast that multiple times in a row, because after the first, I make sure I have defensive buffs up somewhat. Though for the very first one having enough sp on Reimu to keep up def buffs might be pretty difficult

Quote
Only thing I see wrong is that everyone has the same resists, affinities and recovery. It's going to take a while to fix all that :/

siiiiighhhh... good grief.
Is that wink a volunteer? I'll try and fix it myself but I don't want to put myself thru that if you're already doing it, I'd shoot myself if I did it then found out it's already been done >=P.

Jaimers

  • You just did it because you're older than me.
Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #208 on: February 17, 2010, 08:58:12 PM »
Beat
Spoiler:
Yukari
! \o/
Used a Master Spark before the second Djinn Storm and I think it was at the right time, as it didn't take much damage to finish her off afterwards. I think I did about 100k in damage before she died. It's always nice when your last offensive attack before your screwed just happens to be enough to kill the boss.  :D
Used
Spoiler:
Komachi
to debuff the hell out of her. I'll have to see how
Spoiler:
Reisen
fairs in a later boss fight.

But holy shit on a stick, 17F is painfull. Although I have to grind anyway to get
Spoiler:
Kaguya
.

Barrakketh

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Re: Labyrinth of Touhou Discussion #3
« Reply #209 on: February 17, 2010, 09:19:02 PM »
I personally found that those bosses were extremely difficult to survive the opener for. But afterwards, were easy. Even if they cast that multiple times in a row, because after the first, I make sure I have defensive buffs up somewhat. Though for the very first one having enough sp on Reimu to keep up def buffs might be pretty difficult
I made the mistake of focusing too much on Reimu's SP at the beginning.  The bad news is that once I actually needed to use her for healing after going through many floors of not needing to use Exorcising Border it was weaksauce by then, whereas it was really effective the last time I had used it.  The good news is that I can actually cast Great Hakurei Barrier twice without needing to focus and she's using items that boost recovery so I'm reasonably well off in that department:



Sometimes I wonder if I should have even bothered putting points into ATK for Sakuya.  It almost feels like I should have dumped everything into SP so I can just use her for Lunar Clock since her damage output isn't anything to write home about.  Soul Scripture is the only thing that can sweep enemies that don't have high DEF and she only has the SP to do that twice right now before being swapped out.

Another thing I've been wondering...the wiki entry for Reisen mentions that the way the drop system works is that you have to kill her first if you want her drop.  Is there anything like that for random encounters to increase the likelihood of getting the drop from a specific enemy?
Cheating? I cannot even wrap my head around the point of it. Wouldn't you know you had cheated? How on Earth could you maintain crisp certainty of your superiority to all others? And if you're unable to do that, what's the point of anything?