Himelander Mafia Thread (Over! Scum Win!)

[UncertainJakutten]

Hi Alex. Can you explain why what I'm saying is ridiculous? Or do you just like claiming things out of the blue and hoping people follow them?

Sorry, I'm sick of people accusing me of being scum without backing anything up with a case. It'd be nice to know what I stand accused of and why.

Honestly, your sorting algorithm of scumminess makes me quite dubious about your alignment, Alex. You know, the fact that instead of actually looking for scumtells, you are assessing people by "the intelligence of what they say"

That's...not scumhunting.

[Chaore]

Wait wait wait.

I'm speaking of throwing myself into a bonfire (Hell a moment away from doing that when you popped in) and UK is more ridiculous than I?

...alex? Yah lost me. :V Whats up with that analysis?

[Kitten4u]

First, Chaos, don't refer to UK or myself as kitten.  Seriously, whenever you say stuff to UK I get all confused.  I'm just like "whut, I didn't say that." 

Second, I have come to a conclusion about trying to break the set-up!  It's dumb.  It took me a lot of thinking about all the strategies that people have posted, but I really think it's a complete waste of time and I will probably smack the next person that does it with a stick.  I don't find it scummy, just silly and a waste of time.

Using my ability today seems silly unless we want to kill one of the people that can't challenge/be challenged, so I don't think I'll be using it.

Onto people

##Fakevote someone I think is townish vs Chaos

Yep, he's still suspicious.  What I said D1 and what other people have already said covers why.  I don't really see the need to repeat it.  He could still be scum with Ciato because the attack came out of nowhere and wasn't very strong, so I don't think Ciato's comments about him have any bearing on his alignment.  Is probably not scum if UK is scum.

Still mildly suspicous of UK, but not as much as I was before.  Certain attacks just look like reaching to me (see attack on Alice) and that wall flung around a ton of suspiciouns, enough to make me a wary.  Also has the "quick challenges are okay" mentality that I don't like (though, I suppose I should get clarifacation here, exactly how quick is quick UK?).  Is probably not scum if Chaos is scum.

Midly suspicious of Kefit.  I'm not super impressed with his content and I don't like that he volenteered himself to be on the "winning" side of a duel.

I feel a lot better about El Cid after the reread.  Still really, really dislike that he was volenteering himself to be on the "winning" side.  But he has some good posts, so I'm willing to give his power a shot.  I really do wish he would just claim though since scum doesn't seem to have a NK.  I consider him an acceptable challenger for today.

Rou is being Rou and therefore is probably town.  I think Serp is town too.  Same with Alice.  All are mostly gut reads so I can't really say anything more than that.

My read of Bardiche was definitly colored by my scum read on Pesco.  He doesn't look nearly as good as I thought he did after the reread, but I don't think he's scum.  Him being scum with both Ciato and Tom is just weird imo.

I still think that only one of Ciato and Alex were scum, so that means Alex is probably town.

Everyone else hasn't done anything to make me think they're town or scum.

---

Ugh, I'm starting to succumb to apathy.  Rereading the game and posting this was painful.  Sorry for the wall.

Ninja'd by people.

Please don't refer to me as kitten Alex.   We really don't need kitten konfusion around here.  I agree with most everything else he said, though I'm willing to cut Kiro a bit of slack for being on vacation and Alice not posting often is normal for him.  I agree that they do need to post more though.

[UncertainJakutten]

Still mildly suspicous of UK, but not as much as I was before.  Certain attacks just look like reaching to me (see attack on Alice) and that wall flung around a ton of suspiciouns, enough to make me a wary.  Also has the "quick challenges are okay" mentality that I don't like (though, I suppose I should get clarifacation here, exactly how quick is quick UK?).  Is probably not scum if Chaos is scum.

Quick is "Within 20 hours" at this point, since apparently people allow other people to take over the challenge when we start to reach 24 hours and everyone's thumb is up their ass. I do rescind my opinion that a four hour challenge was EVER ok, since people can't seem to see past the two contestants and actually scumhunt.

You obviously haven't been reading my posts. I do create a solid suspicion set of five people, so I'm not "just throwing around accusations everywhere", though I do take notes of everything. Alice actually looks a lot better after my reread, only that one post was bad.

My read of Bardiche was definitly colored by my scum read on Pesco.  He doesn't look nearly as good as I thought he did after the reread, but I don't think he's scum.  Him being scum with both Ciato and Tom is just weird imo.

Why so? Perhaps I missed something?

And K4U, do you agree with his "scumhunting" methods involving just trying to kill "whoever says the most ridiculous stuff"? Further, do you agree with his list of ridiculousness?

[Ranmilia]

UK?  Massive walls of text, which are anti-town and deliberately obfuscating, combined with "scumhunting" which I can't make heads or tails of.  It looks like she's rambling on in her own world making up tons and tons of irrelevant non-content to hide behind, then trying to give herself credit for it by repeating her "Well I'm 2 for 5!" line.  She's not 2 for 5, she's 0 for 0, I've been trying to read her posts but I haven't seen a single coherent case from her. 

That sounds harsh, and it is!  If she is town I'd like to urge her to do better.  Can she summarize her current cases in, say, one to three clear, understandable sentences each?  (For that matter can anyone else do so?)

The 2 for 5 self congratulation is certainly a scummy thing in my book.  Keep in mind that we're looking for members of a team containing Ciato and Tom, who made a break with the team to pull their gambit.  The other members coasting and trying to not get involved and build credit for themselves is something I can very much see.

The other people I listed aren't that much better, though, I'd be fine with Cid > Serp or Chaore as well.

K4U distinction noted.

[Edible]

Can she summarize her current cases in, say, one to three clear, understandable sentences each?  (For that matter can anyone else do so?)

I can!

No one has issued a challenge.  You have ~17 hours to do so, before we do it for you.

[El Cideon]

Hmm. There's some persistent low-grade weirdness in that big Serp post that bothers me.

I want to emphasize this:  None of this strategy is dependent upon my personal alignment, and it only very loosely restricts the town's pool of actions.

Why does that first disclaimer need to exist. Mostly those last paragraphs trying to read into the mind of team scum that bother me, though. Finding it hard to articulate why, just the net result seems to spending a good deal of time speculating on what-ifs that can't be cleared up without killing people I'm not totally comfortable with killing. Appearance of contributing without saying anything useful or concrete.

~

Mildly unnerved by Chaore's willingness to step in front of a truck, but this isn't as bothersome as him suddenly talking as though his death is bound to reveal scum. Not seeing the logic here and I suspect there isn't any.

Since UK asked where I'd mentioned Chaore previously: reply #364, near the top of page 13.

UK/Alex doubleninja. Sec.

[Kitten4u]

Quick is "Within 20 hours" at this point, since apparently people allow other people to take over the challenge when we start to reach 24 hours and everyone's thumb is up their ass. I do rescind my opinion that a four hour challenge was EVER ok, since people can't seem to see past the two contestants and actually scumhunt.

Glad I asked then.  I don't fully take back the point because you did agree with it earlier, but it doesn't bug me as much now.

You obviously haven't been reading my posts. I do create a solid suspicion set of five people, so I'm not "just throwing around accusations everywhere", though I do take notes of everything. Alice actually looks a lot better after my reread, only that one post was bad.

Mostly just has to do with the way it was said.  It doesn't feel as solid to me as you claim it is.  Certain parts where, yes, but not all of it.

Why so? Perhaps I missed something?

A lot of it's gut, but I'll explain where I think it's coming from as best I can.  It's just the way they voted for Pesco.  There were plenty of good reasons to vote against him if they wanted to bus, but they didn't use any of them.  So, it doesn't look like a bus to me.  Ergo, Bardiche must be town.  Two people attacking a scum buddy like that just feels weird to me, so I consider it more likely that Bard is town.

And K4U, do you agree with his "scumhunting" methods involving just trying to kill "whoever says the most ridiculous stuff"? Further, do you agree with his list of ridiculousness?

Depends on if the ridiculous things are scummy or not.  Second part you should be able to answer yourself since I just put up my opinions on like everyone.  But so you don't have to go back and reread, I agree with him on you and Chaos (though I don't think you two can be scum together), I disagree on Serp and Rou and I have no opinion on Jam.

[UncertainJakutten]

UK?  Massive walls of text, which are anti-town and deliberately obfuscating, combined with "scumhunting" which I can't make heads or tails of.  It looks like she's rambling on in her own world making up tons and tons of irrelevant non-content to hide behind, then trying to give herself credit for it by repeating her "Well I'm 2 for 5!" line.  She's not 2 for 5, she's 0 for 0, I've been trying to read her posts but I haven't seen a single coherent case from her. 

If you can't read my posts, then :dealwithit:

It's pretty coherant if you bother to read it, and the tl;dr at least half explains for those who are too lazy to play fucking mafia.

That said, I might summarize my cases when I'm on a better computer tomorrow. I'm on the downstairs one where I have to use two mice. Not conducive to what I'd like to do.

Depends on if the ridiculous things are scummy or not.  Second part you should be able to answer yourself since I just put up my opinions on like everyone.  But so you don't have to go back and reread, I agree with him on you and Chaos (though I don't think you two can be scum together), I disagree on Serp and Rou and I have no opinion on Jam.

that's not what I asked. What I asked was if you agreed that what the players he named were saying were ridiculous.

A lot of it's gut, but I'll explain where I think it's coming from as best I can.  It's just the way they voted for Pesco.  There were plenty of good reasons to vote against him if they wanted to bus, but they didn't use any of them.  So, it doesn't look like a bus to me.  Ergo, Bardiche must be town.  Two people attacking a scum buddy like that just feels weird to me, so I consider it more likely that Bard is town.

Don't forget this is a large game.

Mostly just has to do with the way it was said.  It doesn't feel as solid to me as you claim it is.  Certain parts where, yes, but not all of it.

Sorry, let me clarify solid. I take a solid stance on 5 players I think are scum.

[Kiro]

Ergh, lunch break to check the game... figured I'd have to read a lot. Quick thoughts before I go out again:

I support the initial Cid vs. Chaos in a sense. Chaos is willing to sac himself which Scum in this situation would probably not do considering they are 2 down already. And my read on Cid still holds from earlier. So the impression is it's Town v Town. As such, I'd rather swap Chaos for someone else who I think is more scummy. I'd advocate Serp over Chaos.

Regarding Serp: I'm getting confused on how I disliked your plan and then approved Kefit's was a problem. The core issue is that it was seeming likely that Kefit could not possibly gain a Town head and it turned out he was right due to Ciato being Scum. It doesn't discount him from being Scum himself, but ScumKefit didn't really boost the win condition for his team by stepping forward. LYLO is still going to be awhile away. He's now out of an excuse to gain another kill so that neutralizes him in such a case. I'll get more in probably in 5 hours or so.

[Kitten4u]

that's not what I asked. What I asked was if you agreed that what the players he named were saying were ridiculous.

Oh okay.  In order

You: Yes
Serp: Yes
Chaore: Yes
Jam: No
Rou: Yes

But they're not all scummy.  Lynching people for saying silly things alone...I can't get behind that as I said.  If said silly things are scummy then it's obviously good.

Don't forget this is a large game.

Yep.  Possible?  Sure.  Probable?  Not really.

And ideally I really do think that you should be able to condense your opinions on people into under five sentences, but whatever.  I obviously can't force you to change the way you play.  I don't know how you do it though, I mean I felt like a horrible person for posting my mini-wall and it's not even that long compared to some of the stuff you type.

[Chaore]

Sorry. Force of habit, Kitten just seems like the appropriate nickname.

Speaking of. You've actually mentioned me only in passing. Care to prove me wrong in that? I'm feeling rather drunbk right now, so I don't doubt I missed something.

NinjaCid:

Uh. Hold on. What? You spent a huge fucking WOT explaining why your power will be good and you're acting as if it won't catch scum?

Que? QUE? You were willing to die after using it, but its not even going to catch scum? Cid what the hell should I be expecting then?

NinjaKiro:

I'm honestly worried you think I'm townish from the fact I am throwing myself into the bonfire. I get the logic, yes. But the fact you came in with it...

Thats a pretty terrible reason to think I'm town, frankly.

[UncertainJakutten]

And ideally I really do think that you should be able to condense your opinions on people into under five sentences, but whatever.  I obviously can't force you to change the way you play.  I don't know how you do it though, I mean I felt like a horrible person for posting my mini-wall and it's not even that long compared to some of the stuff you type.

I'm actually working on it. It's just I can't convey some things without stream of consciousness. Well...perhaps I could. I have an idea I'll implement in the future.

At any rate, why are the things I'm saying ridiculous, if I might ask?

[El Cideon]

Various small things.

-Bard stop with the protestations of your own towniness. It doesn't help anything. We shouldn't have to say this by now.

-UK: To some extent I have to agree with Alex. WoTness does a lot to make you a blur in my memory and the tone of some of these lengthy arguments you've had with a couple people don't really help. See D1 Bard slapfight for reference. Being extremely confrontational doesn't necessarily equal scummy, but it does color my perception in a way that contributes to me remembering your demeanor more than what you actually say. Seconding the request for concise summary of thoughts, hopefully it'll help solidify my opinion of you.

Second, I have come to a conclusion about trying to break the set-up!  It's dumb.  It took me a lot of thinking about all the strategies that people have posted, but I really think it's a complete waste of time and I will probably smack the next person that does it with a stick.  I don't find it scummy, just silly and a waste of time.

I can't second this enough.

~

Apropos of nothing, Rou's new avatar scares me.

More ninjas. Sec.

[Kitten4u]

Speaking of. You've actually mentioned me only in passing. Care to prove me wrong in that? I'm feeling rather drunbk right now, so I don't doubt I missed something.

Assuming this is refering to me.  Yeah, I mentioned you on D1 and that's about it.  We had bigger fish to fry with Tom and Ciato, so I didn't see the need to add more words to the game saying "Yup Chaore is still suspicious."

At any rate, why are the things I'm saying ridiculous, if I might ask?

Uh, well the fact that you seem to get all angry, get into spats over silly things and swear at trivial things strikes me as silly.  The fact that you burried your cases into huge WoT that no one wants to read is silly.  As for actual content I think I've already covered that.

[El Cideon]

Chaore: Much of your speculation about the possibility of me being scum read as though you were only considering the situation from the perspective of what flips from those involved in the match would tell us. Is this a misreading?

[UncertainJakutten]

Uh, well the fact that you seem to get all angry, get into spats over silly things and swear at trivial things strikes me as silly.  The fact that you burried your cases into huge WoT that no one wants to read is silly.  As for actual content I think I've already covered that.

I do, admittedly, have a more emotional playstyle in shorter games. Even in longer ones I can get into fights, I just have longer to cool off. I'm not sure how much of my confrontation is intentional to see where a player goes faced with a wall of rage, and how much is genuine feeling of "GOD DAMMIT BALLMONT PEOPLE!". There's definitely a seed of rage I do sometimes conflate a bit.

Yeah, I'll try to post the concise summaries in about 11 hours.

[Chaore]

Chaore: Much of your speculation about the possibility of me being scum read as though you were only considering the situation from the perspective of what flips from those involved in the match would tell us. Is this a misreading?

Quite possibly as I didn't understand a word of what you just said.

You being scum pretty much plays out as 'Cid does not put up, thus does not have a power and was just trying to get a scum kill'. If I flip Scum or not would actually -not- change if you were scum. It is mostly based on your power claim. The flip part mostly came from a misread from UK and myself.

You're free to take your claim straight back if you're worried you won't be able to hold it up. It'll just speak for itself. You're also free to adjust it for whatever misgivings I seem to be having here.

[Serp]

Why does that first disclaimer need to exist.

I'm growing frustrated with people claiming that I look scummy not on the basis of relation to flipped scum, not on the basis of self-serving tactics, but on the basis of believing that we should follow a certain strategy.  Scum are naturally going to support strategies that make it easier for scum to win, so every strategy from an un-confirmed player should be viewed with suspicion, but when the argument against it is that it's somehow too dangerous to try to keep scum from their win condition, I don't think I can be blamed for trying to dumb it down and state every little point explicitly.

Mostly those last paragraphs trying to read into the mind of team scum that bother me, though. Finding it hard to articulate why, just the net result seems to spending a good deal of time speculating on what-ifs that can't be cleared up without killing people I'm not totally comfortable with killing. Appearance of contributing without saying anything useful or concrete.

People are calling Alex confirmed town off of what could very easily be a scum gambit.  Maybe Tom really did just panic, but assuming that your opponents are stupid is an easy way to lose just about any game.  Very frustrating to need to say this as well.

Regarding Serp: I'm getting confused on how I disliked your plan and then approved Kefit's was a problem. The core issue is that it was seeming likely that Kefit could not possibly gain a Town head and it turned out he was right due to Ciato being Scum. It doesn't discount him from being Scum himself, but ScumKefit didn't really boost the win condition for his team by stepping forward. LYLO is still going to be awhile away. He's now out of an excuse to gain another kill so that neutralizes him in such a case. I'll get more in probably in 5 hours or so.

Literally anyone could have killed Ciato and not added a head to scum's bag, with Ciato as scum.  Apparently you were more certain of that alignment than I was, but whatever.  The point is that Kefit then does this same "trying to break the game" that some people are accusing me of, here, claiming (falsely, as I pointed out here) that scum will find it impossible to win if we follow his strategy.  And while mine is apparently bad enough to make Kiro call me scummy for it, Kefit's makes Kiro trust him enough to give him a head.

And all that aside, I should point out again that Kefit is still as eligible as any of us to go into a fight, since his kill of Ciato will not count towards the scum victory condition.

[El Cideon]

If I flip Scum or not would actually -not- change if you were scum.

My turn to be confused, because I'm not sure what this particular line means even in context.

My only real worry here is that your willingness to be sacrificed is hard to reconcile with my idea of you being scum and I do not want to kill a townie to do this. Paranoia says your attitude may be scum smokescreening, of course. Opinions from the group as a whole on this possibility would be welcome. Guys?

[Chaore]

Essentially, if I did flip scum you could still by what logic I'm assuming, turn out scum. Certainly if I flipped scum this would make you definitely far townier, or mean your power was so scum beneficial i killed myself for it. My death over your claim is much more miniscule compared to how your actual claim pulls out.

My mind is getting less coherent over time, apologies if that ended up just more confusing.

[Ranmilia]

I am astonished by Chaore's interactions with UK and my instinct is to say kill both of them and be done with it.  Apparently UK has some case on Chaore that is so killer even Chaore agrees to die for it, but dig as I might I can't find what exactly this case actually is, and apparently it will take 11 hours to even get back a summary, but Chaore is still willing to get challenged and die right now despite still not even saying why himself?  Crazyland. 

What I'm much more concerned about right now is what exactly we are going to get out of Cid's alleged power.  I can understand the desire not to share details beforehand but it IS going to be something of substantial help that you WILL be able to offer at least convincing circumstantial proof of having taken place and being a protown ability after the fact, right?    Because if not I'd suggest just throwing down something like Chao vs UK. 

[El Cideon]

People are calling Alex confirmed town off of what could very easily be a scum gambit.  Maybe Tom really did just panic, but assuming that your opponents are stupid is an easy way to lose just about any game.  Very frustrating to need to say this as well.

I'm not assuming they're stupid. Personally, I believe Tom acted out of a desire to at least get a kill out of a situation that might have simply resulted in two dead scum if he'd let it continue. A complicated Tom/Alex/Ciato gambit just isn't the kind of theory I entertain when there are simpler explanations available and it doesn't seem fruitful to worry about that possibility right now.

Ninja'd by Chaore. I understand what you're saying but it doesn't really help. Apologies, but...speculating about two voluntary challengers being scum strikes me as rather insane, especially when said challengers happen to be you and I.

Ninja Alex. Will get to it in a sec.

[Chaore]

Hold the shit on. What?

UK isn't the reason, Alex, NO ONE has voiced an opinion on me that is positive. It is very obvious I would be next up to the chopping block. UK does not factor the hell in. I'm choosing to die on that fact, not a fucking thing related to UK.

I've been jousting -against- her. Not with her. You...just hit a massive logic fallacy there, Alex, What the fuck?

NinjaCid:

I'm aware of how this is completely against all sense. Its kind of why it involves me dying.

[Chaore]

Wait. Nevermind, no how is this exactly an insane speculation? Voluntary challenging is specifically scummy in this set up. This would be something you do look at. Me being involved doesn't mean I completely avoid the speculation... I... Iterate how exactly this is something I shouldn't be doing.

Also, I don't even get you in hindsight, Alex. Are you suggesting some insane bussing scheme between me and UK or something? Just...clarify that in a way that does not make me wonder what you're grasping for.

Currently ...fifteen or so till hammer. Logging off for sleep. Comment on what comes in.

[El Cideon]

What I'm much more concerned about right now is what exactly we are going to get out of Cid's alleged power.  I can understand the desire not to share details beforehand but it IS going to be something of substantial help that you WILL be able to offer at least convincing circumstantial proof of having taken place and being a protown ability after the fact, right?    Because if not I'd suggest just throwing down something like Chao vs UK.

Hell with it. Doesn't seem much point in playing coy any longer. Cop.

Primary reason for not fullclaiming has been worries of a framer mucking with my results. With a dozen or so people left tomorrow I suppose chances are good that they wouldn't pick the same target as me if chosen randomly (though of course I didn't want to choose randomly and it would've been easy to pick someone in confidence if scum didn't know exactly what I was doing). Assuming they have such a role, of course, which we certainly don't know for sure but it's a risk I wanted to avoid. (Much like K4U's power, this also only works during the challenge phase. So yeah, more reason to murder anyone quickchallenging.)

What this means, in response to Alex's query, is that you wouldn't see an obvious Word of Mod message saying I've done something. Whether or not my word is enough, I leave up to you guys.

Note: I need to fall into bed within 5-10 minutes, will stay around for immediate responses, though. Someone remind me how much time we have left before deadline? Ninja! Chaore does it. Okay.

[El Cideon]

Wait. Nevermind, no how is this exactly an insane speculation? Voluntary challenging is specifically scummy in this set up. This would be something you do look at. Me being involved doesn't mean I completely avoid the speculation... I... Iterate how exactly this is something I shouldn't be doing.

Any speculation that involves the notion "this is what I'd do if I was scum" just looks inherently weird to me.

[Kefit]

Let's do this with faux legal brief stylings just for kicks.

I. I hold a strong believe that Serp is scum.

Serp Serp Serp. Oh Serp, what's wrong with you? Let's start from the beginning. On day one you proposed this ingenious plan:

Though, it just now occured to me that if two untested people go into battle with each other, and a townie dies, then it might be smarter to have the towniest players go through and kill each other until a scum pops up.  This would hopefully result in a lot of townies being removed from the game before we hit the next scum.  And after that next scum death, the two scummiest players could be picked to fight each other in hopes of killing a scum before he claims a head.

Yes, let's start the game off by killing off as many townies as we can. Nothing works quite as well for the townies as steadily increasing the voting power of the scum bloc, eh? I can understand not worrying about a townie death or two near the start of the game - my ideal course of action for day one even supported the very possible outcome of a townie death. But to propose that we keep killing townies intentionally as the player base continues to shrink? Completely absurd. Especially in light of Serp's response to my plan and duel on day three:

If all four of you were scum, then you wouldn't need to win anymore challenges to win the game.  All you'd need to do would be to stage a few town v. town duels.  You'd just need to get at least two scum to survive through LyLo (and one more scum for every person you named that's actually town).  Scum would clean up the remaining heads, whether or not they're "neutralized."  If we leave you all alive to LyLo, we're basically putting our faith in you to be town.

Kind of funny how he's now suddenly worried about townies killing townies. But wait, there's more! The real fun starts when Serp begins to continually attack my credibility after I killed a scum in a duel following explicit instructions to never let me win a duel again.  Let's start with the extreme rhetoric that he uses to exaggerate and misrepresent my proposal:

Then Kefit shows up, says "Hey guys, I have a foolproof plan for you to follow, it guarantees a town win (except that it actually doesn't) and also requires you to to let me get a kill and then coast 'till endgame (which, despite your revision today, Kefit, it looked pretty clear that that was what you were asking for)."

Dear reader, does this language describe what I proposed? How does my conclusion that "the outcome [of my plan] is still to town advantage" regardless of scum roles involved equate to "a foolproof plan for you to follow [that] guarantees a town win"? How does my desire to live regardless of the outcome (for, as I have said before, I know I am human) equate to "[requiring] you [all] to to[sic] let me...coast 'till[sic] endgame?" And even long after my plan successfully nabbed a scum head he still cast it in the rather negative light of "trying to break the game."

Further attacks to my credibility come with Serp's subtle attempt to push the paranoia theory:

Either scum is leading around the town (look at Alex, Bardiche, Kiro, Kefit), or scum is genuinely being steamrolled (look at Chaore, maybe Rou, plus quiet people).  If there were a mix, then I wouldn't expect things to look so clear-cut.

Casting me as scum while trying to incite paranoia discussion? Not only does Serp have it in for me, he's also suggesting that the townies might want to consider engaging in the self-destructive behavior of succumbing to hesitation and fear.

I dunno about you guys, but I'm getting a strong feeling here that Serp isn't too fond of me! I wonder why that might be. Is it because I took out a scum? Is it because I was able to persuasively rally a majority of players to my side in an effort that has produced some advantage for the town? Man, that sort of ability in a townie really seems detrimental to the scum, doesn't it?

Summary: I strongly believe at this point that Serp is scum.

II. I hold a mild belief that UK is scum.

I don't have much to say here beyond the fact that I agree with Alex's general analysis. However, I'll add that at one point UK attacked the value of my economically reasonable day one post. Seems to me like he was just seeing if she could attack the quality of the post due to the fact that it did not arrive at the correct result for the situation we were in, rather than attacking the course of reasoning applied within it. Not a big deal, really, but hey, every seed of doubt that a scum can fabricate via a fallacious yet facially appealing argument has the potential of paying off big down the line.

III. I propose UK v. Serp in the smackdown cage match of the century.

Preferably with Kilga's ghost as MC. I think he'd enjoy that role. [disclaimer: I'm just being silly here, this line has nothing to do with the game or any roles in it or anything].

Scummy vs scummy is our best bet right now. It lowers the chances of scum nabbing a head while raisies the chances that we take out a scum. Since I feel the strongest scummy feelings from Serp and UK, I humbly propose that they duel.

[Kilgamayan]

Before anyone blows a gasket over Kefit editing his post, I read the initial version of it and can confirm that the game content of his post has remain unchanged. The only edits he made were changing gender pronouns in reference to UK from "he" to "she" after I pointed them out to him.

Carry on.

[Kefit]

Yeah, sorry about that. It won't happen again, as Kilga has now explained to me the proper EBWOP procedure.