Himelander Mafia Thread (Over! Scum Win!)

[Kefit]

And please remember to ##Unvote.

What in the world have you guys done to this poor game. It's like you've turned this into a bizarre court battle where everyone can have the chance to scramble and uncover meaningless procedural errors in the misplaced hopes of mustering a vain appeal. I get enough of that crap at school.

##Unvote Pesco
##Vote Bardiche

In case there is any confusion left after this post, this means that I want Pesco to die and Bardiche to live.

[UncertainJakutten]

What in the world have you guys done to this poor game. It's like you've turned this into a bizarre court battle where everyone can have the chance to scramble and uncover meaningless procedural errors in the misplaced hopes of mustering a vain appeal. I get enough of that crap at school.

This is actually the feeling I'm getting from Bard's posts. Besides his inaccuracies, I'm not sure how what he's saying leads to me being scum outside of supposedly me knowing Pesco's alignment which I don't. I feel that Pesco is playing closer to his town game than I feel Bard is playing to a blank slate townie's game. I realize that meta is going to favor the MotK regulars, but overall I'm not getting good feelings from Bard.

[Chaore]

I'm going with misunderstanding, as seems to be the case as I'm concerned. Mostly because I do not carry things through enough. It is a bad habit I tend to do when explaining.

Further muddling would just result in a sissy slap fight of verbal proportions. If I can properly voice what I'm trying to say, I'll let you know.

[Bardiche]

Misrep.

You threatened to duel Pesco if he didn't duel me and said that it seemed like an amusing thing to you. How am I misrepresenting you when I say you were comfortable with Pesco's declaration of duelling me?

retrospective

You talked about "taking too long" when you already knew Pesco was going to duel me in x amount of times and even applied pressure to him to do so or face your duel invitation. That's not retrospective, that's actively cruising the day into "Pesco Duel".

With posts like that I'm thinking you're a great choice. Which is really hilarious since I was saying the exact same things as town last game. My excuse was that I was trying to irritate Kerigis, who pointed out I was subtly trying to reinforce I'm town. What's yours?

My point was, "You're in a terrible position right now due to the hasty duel declaration and you should feel bad for promoting Pesco to go on with it".

Bullshit.

Just...bullshit. You haven't been reading my posts at all. Actually, you have. And that's what makes this even MORE terrible. I've posted thoughts on both of you. Where the hell do you even get this?

Can you link me to the posts in which you describe your feelings regarding Pesco and my potential scummitude?

Really? I am? Prove it. Everything you've cited has been a miserable pile of contradiction after contradiction.

Yep, everyone I've quoted was a miserable pile of contradiction after contradiction, and I am very happy you acknowledge it. Your support of Pesco shouldn't need my proof, it's evident in the vote record and your actions with regards to him.

You accuse me of one thing and then you accuse me of the opposite.

I've accused you of acting suspicious and I've accused you of being scum so far. I feel that those two are close enough not to be considered opposites.

I really don't understand what you are attempting to do here besides piss me off.

I'd wager a guess on "find scum".

It's like you've turned this into a bizarre court battle where everyone can have the chance to scramble and uncover meaningless procedural errors in the misplaced hopes of mustering a vain appeal.

I prefer it to "fuzzy feelings" based on "first post mind hax", if you'll apologise my condescending tone there. Perhaps the way Mafia is played in other places differs enough from here that my approach may not sit well with you.

So, care to tell me how you usually catch scum here beyond examining the posts and pointing out the things you feel need to be scrutinised?

[Bardiche]

everyone = everything in my latest post, of course. Blame trying to get that out before more posts happened.

If my approach is entirely too offense to you, please tell me and I'll try to accomodate people. If attacking people─based on what they've said that just seems entirely counter to what they're doing to me─ is a course of action discouraged here, please tell me. I should've checked on this before accepting an invitation to play here.

[UncertainJakutten]

You threatened to duel Pesco if he didn't duel me and said that it seemed like an amusing thing to you. How am I misrepresenting you when I say you were comfortable with Pesco's declaration of duelling me?

not that part, the other part. You know, about not reading posts. That's bull. Unless you don't count the skimming as reading, which would be...the opposite of what you said.

And...your second point doesn't address what I said either.

I...what? To the third.

Ok, are you even reading what you are quoting? I...really don't think we are playing the same game right now. Or we are, you just like saying non sequiters in response to quotes.

I could link them if I felt like it. I might do so later.

Yep, everyone I've quoted was a miserable pile of contradiction after contradiction, and I am very happy you acknowledge it. Your support of Pesco shouldn't need my proof, it's evident in the vote record and your actions with regards to him.

Good job being a smartass. You knew what I meant. So respond to the post or try to actually make a real case. Which you can't, by the way.

I've accused you of acting suspicious and I've accused you of being scum so far. I feel that those two are close enough not to be considered opposites.

Um...no?

So, care to tell me how you usually catch scum here beyond examining the posts and pointing out the things you feel need to be scrutinised?

Actually, I fail at catching scum. I just exist as a cute kitty that people can't bring themselves to lynch unless I'm doing egregiously bad. Yet somehow I get the feeling I'm right for once.

Quite frankly, your last post reeks of attempting to incite rage in a person as opposed to actually resolve your case. You don't really counter my points except once or twice, and you mix in so much taunting I honestly can't believe you aren't trying to piss me off.

I have no need to respond to you until you are civil and actually make points germane to the game.

Til then .

[FinnKaenbyou]

Oh sweet jesus what the hell is this

We're less that 24 hours into Day 1 and already we're getting WoTs all over the place

Pesco is terrible for doing nothing useful, Bardiche gets credit for moving onto UK but HOLY CRAP.

Honestly this day has been a trainwreck. We get a challenge 4 hours in, no-one has any useful information to work from as a result, we're getting overwhelmed by WoTs and best of all 4 people haven't even posted yet - namely, Alice, Jam, Alex and K4U.

In short - What the hell?

[Chaore]

Oh sweet jesus what the hell is this

We're less that 24 hours into Day 1 and already we're getting WoTs all over the place

Pesco is terrible for doing nothing useful, Bardiche gets credit for moving onto UK but HOLY CRAP.

Honestly this day has been a trainwreck. We get a challenge 4 hours in, no-one has any useful information to work from as a result, we're getting overwhelmed by WoTs and best of all 4 people haven't even posted yet - namely, Alice, Jam, Alex and K4U.

In short - What the hell?

I'm going to have to say Day 1 happened. Just far poorer than other games.

[El Cideon]

In short - What the hell?

Most intelligent thing that's been said this game.

And Alex has posted, actually.

[FinnKaenbyou]

Still want to hear how Siralex would break the setup he made. That's useful info for the town he's holding back.

Okay this is also bull. You assume first of all that Carth would keep the setup the same knowing that Alex was playing, and secondly that he would allow it to be used at all if it was broken. Asking him this ahead of useful hunting is horrible.

##Vote: Bardiche

At least he's getting off his ass and doing something. Plus your meta feels way OTT this game. Even Town!Pesco is more contributory than this.

And Alex has posted, actually.

Oh whoops, he's Ranmilia. My bad. :S

[UncertainJakutten]

At least he's getting off his ass and doing something.

But what if that something is unproductive and the cause of most of these WoTs?

Either way, how does Pesco's meta feel...ok, what does OTT mean?

[Chaore]

But what if that something is unproductive and the cause of most of these WoTs?

Either way, how does Pesco's meta feel...ok, what does OTT mean?

Over the top.

[EvilTom]

Bard is posting too many walls of text. My vote therefore goes to Pesco.
##Vote Pesco

This is how I (t)roll!
Whatcha gonna do about it Pesco?  :V

Mmm look at that butt.

[UncertainJakutten]

Ok, so Over the Top. I guess you could say that but actually it feels like a throwback to the bad old days. Not sure I LIKE it but I want to see where it goes just for the sake of seeing where it goes. I'm definitely not liking Bard, but that's pretty obvious in my previous posts. Oh hey, speaking of which I should link what I promised.

Well, sore ga un da

Speaking of which, I think your initial reaction posts to pesco oozed of "I'm going to pretend I know I'm town and try to seem reasonable without really doing much to further it". Which doesn't sit well with me.

We'll throw this in and point out I said PROGRESSIVE thoughts, as you two kept posting.

But, I did never directly post my thoughts on Pesco. I figured it was manifestly obvious I found him town.

And actually, I don't think you really gave me anything to comment on after I said that.

But, I'll admit, I say less than I should have after making that proclamation. Overall I guess I figured I already covered what I thought of you, and since I got in this tango with you, I've been posting my thoughts on you.


I'm ambivalent really. given the situation, you could technically be accurate in what you accused me of. On the other hand, there wasn't much to say about you or Pesco after I said that, and I already covered my stance before I said that.

So, I'll drop that point against you.

[Kilgamayan]

I'm not reading all that shit when I could be enjoying Otakon and my new official Pita-Ten art book <3 <3 <3 <3 <3 Post fewer walls plz kthx!

I might check in with a real post once the day is over.

Tom, you're voting for who you want to live, remember?

[Kilgamayan]

Scratch that, I will check in with a real post when my day is over.

Just not now.

mishaaaaaa~ <3

[FinnKaenbyou]

But what if that something is unproductive and the cause of most of these WoTs?

Personally I feel this post was perfectly reasonable. You responded by picking at every little point and minor inconsistency in the attack. If anything, Bardiche is at fault for actually responding to your constant nit-picking.

Either way, how does Pesco's meta feel...ok, what does OTT mean?

As Chaore said, it's Over The Top. Town!Pesco may be reckless normally, but he wouldn't reduce the game to two suspects in 4 hours. Furthermore he didn't just sit back on his Chaore case in RKS - he added to it, found further slipups in his play. He didn't just say 'I'm lynching him because, now get the hell on with it'.

tl;dr:

Post fewer walls plz kthx!

[Kilgamayan]

And by Otakon I meant Katsucon.

[Bardiche]

my new official Pita-Ten art book <3 <3 <3 <3 <3

You jerk! I'd lynch you for that if I could!

[UncertainJakutten]

Personally I feel this post was perfectly reasonable. You responded by picking at every little point and minor inconsistency in the attack. If anything, Bardiche is at fault for actually responding to your constant nit-picking.

Elaborate? How is flat out inaccuracy "reasonable"?

[FinnKaenbyou]

Elaborate? How is flat out inaccuracy "reasonable"?

You didn't read over the short posts properly, like he said.
You insisted that going for a quick challenge is a good idea rather than LETTING PEOPLE TALK.
You see no reason in looking at the people who are at risked of being lynched even when you told everyone else to do so because you're looking at what'll happen in the next day.
You called on me for rolefishing Pesco then insisted I say what I thought he was.

None of this seems inaccurate for me, and I'm not going to sit here and argue minute points with you. IT'S DAY 1, GODDAMMIT.

[UncertainJakutten]

You called on me for rolefishing Pesco then insisted I say what I thought he was.

Well, you were rolefishing. And then it occured to me that I'd really rather find out WHY THE HELL YOU WERE DOING IT. That's not scummy.

You see no reason in looking at the people who are at risked of being lynched even when you told everyone else to do so because you're looking at what'll happen in the next day.

I still don't understand the point here since I don't believe I ever expressed this. So, inaccurate.

You insisted that going for a quick challenge is a good idea rather than LETTING PEOPLE TALK.

Has anyone died yet? No one has been lynched. Further, why is it scummy for me to find a quick challenge refreshing and probably a good thing in a town that tends to punish bad players over actually finding scum?

I don't think there's a point there.

You didn't read over the short posts properly, like he said.

The posts I "didn't read properly" were far from short.

[Kitten4u]

How the heck did you manage to post 5 pages while I was sleeping?  Well, I'll start reading through all of it, give me a little while.  I think I caught the stomach flu so I feel pretty blargh right now.

[EvilTom]

Tom, you're voting for who you want to live, remember?

I am aware of this!

[Ranmilia]

I just read over the signup OP and see Siralex being credited for the setup. Care to explain the optimal play for us all?

This is relevant I guess.  Nightless highlander setup is something I've seen played a couple of times before and I helped Rat with some of the basic concepts involved.  Obviously I don't have any sort of privileged information, I don't know anything about any roles or rules he put in besides what's listed in the OP.  He did however put some things in the setup that are not what I expected - unilateral challenges first and foremost among them, and a relatively high number of scalps needed for scum.  In the highlander setups I've seen, challenges worked with one player declaring they were throwing down a gauntlet and accepting challenges, and then some other player had to challenge them.  The initiating player didn't get to choose their challenger, though.

So this is a bit odd and I'm worried that some of the strategies discussed so far like lynching anyone who wins vs a townie may be able to break the setup.  On the other hand I did bring up similar concerns to Rat about some preliminary ideas, and he's a generally smart guy, so I think it's safest to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he's thought of things like that and the setup is not so easily broken. 

One thing unilateral challenges does do however is narrow the scope of the game considerably.  There are no nights, scum don't get nightkills, they can't shut anybody up, and town does not have freedom to lynch whatever scum they please.  We don't need to "scumhunt" like a normal game, in other words (which is good since a lot of the normal tells for finding scum don't work here either.)  The only thing we can vote on is the challenge at hand, one person or the other, and policy for future challenges.

We can change that, though.

I propose that in future days challenges should not be issued without a majority or at least a plurality of town approval.  We've got a good 24 hours between challenges, as well as a lot of the time while the current one's going on, to discuss this, and we should cast (fake) votes on what challenges we want to see happen as well.

IF SOMEONE ISSUES A CHALLENGE WITHOUT WIDESCALE TOWN BACKING, WE SHOULD VOTE FOR THAT PERSON TO LOSE THEIR CHALLENGE.  Unilateral challenges are antitown.

I support Bard winning the duel with Pesco today, for this reason and also because, well, it's Pesco.  Not sure what challenges I'd want to see after that.  Tom's post is very striking, I'd like to know why he's voting pro-Pesco and what he's up to.  Ninja'd by more Tom.  Tom what are you doing.

I guess I should throw some RP in here but good grief the posting speed here is an avalanche.  How about if I just strike a Terminator pose and say "Vote with me if you want to live"?

[Edible]

DAY 1 CHALLENGE: Pesco vs. Bardiche

Vote Count
Bardiche (6) - Bardiche, Kilgamayan, Ranmilia, El Cideon, Kefit, Roukanken
Pesco (4) - UncertainKitten, Serpentarius, Pesco, Tom

It takes 9 votes to secure a win.  Remember that you are voting for who you want to -win- the duel.

You have a whole lot of time remaining.

[Kitten4u]

Okay, so stuff first.  Like I said, I'm sick, so my brain is only half-functional.  If something doesn't make sense let me know and I'll clarify.

Thar be two kittens here, so don't refer to UK or myself as "kitten" unless you want to confuse everyone.  So far only Bard's done it a couple of times and he refered to UK as UK before refering to her as kitten, so it's not a huge deal, but I figured I should say this before we get a Communication Breakdance D1 repeat.

What's with all these walls of text?  Sifting through those was not fun.  Keep it up and I might be forced to sneeze on you.

Pesco, why did you challenge someone so early?  It would have been nice if you actually let us talk about stuff first.  I'm also immediately disliking the people that think that challenging early was a good/okay/acceptable thing to do.

Bard can you use simpler sentences?  Maybe it's just the nausea talking, but my simple mind has a hard time reading what you say sometimes.

---

Okay, moving on.  In this game sitting back and watching doesn't seem like a viable scum strategy.  Y'know, since they actually have to win fights in order to win and they can't just get townies to kill each other like they can in a normal game.  As a result, I consider anyone that thinks that challenging people without discussing it and getting everyone's approval is more likely to be scum.  So Pesco loses points right off the bat.

Then he also says some things that makes me think he doesn't actually expect Bard to flip scum (that one post that says that even if he flips town it's all good comes to mind).  I'm not liking some people voting for Pesco either (Chaos, EvilTom and UK stick out).

Bard himself wasn't real impressive at first, but I feel like he's gotten better.  I didn't like his overly defensive nature, but he's gotten better about that since he started attacking UK.  So yeah.

##Vote Bardiche

[UncertainJakutten]

Apparently I'm a liar who needs sleep thanks to involved conversations. Will try to read Rou's early posts tomorrow with a closer eye for attentiveness.

[Chaore]

Goodness. Not even a full day and we're almost to hammer.

I'm going to wait till Pesco returns and see what he has to say. If he lasts that long at the rate the votes are piling. Voting for or against someone who hasn't even been defending himself doesn't sit well with me.

I'll restate what was looked over in favor of a poorly stated observation. Pesco is playing entirely suicidal here. Any reason why doesn't sit well with me. The fact it is being receptively taken so easily sits worse with me.

[Pesco]

I'll reread page 5 a bit later. For now:

Bard: Admit it, you're offended that I challenged you over your first game post.

Siralex: I recall you saying that you'd never play in game with me, quite the hypocrite you are.