Hey, everybody! It's your pal Letty here to yell at the lot of you!

[Kuma]

Why, yes, miss Yakumo, I am!

[Hello Purvis]

I guess we all have to post here?

Jerk mods make the best mods because they're more likely to uphold rules and not worry and hurting feelings.  If your feelings are hurt because you got probated, deal with it.  You broke a rule and you got punished.  Don't like it?  Don't do it again.  Simple as that

CPMC was a lot better before that Vic Viper guy came around, can't we do something about him?  EUUGH!

I completely disagree with this. Friends are far more important than rules. If you're not blatantly trying to be an ass, ala Seniwac or Pedo, there's no reason to coldly drop the hammer. Treating that person like an errant friend would do.

Also, Ijiyatsu did not cause anything. CPMC was very much like it is before Ijiyatsu happened; it's simply a creative outlet and a harmless bit of doing nice things for friends. If anything, it's actually helped us get more peoples in, as it got Gappy to show up around here and contribute a lot more.

[Matsuri]

wait, hold on

the Mode Tells About CPMC thread was moved to Community Fanworks? i figured it should stay here because it's about CPMC too

You have a point. I'll move it back.

EDIT: Okay, it's back.

[helvetica]

I completely disagree with this. Friends are far more important than rules. If you're not blatantly trying to be an ass, ala Seniwac or Pedo, there's no reason to coldly drop the hammer. Treating that person like an errant friend would do.

But if your friends are tearing the shit out of your stuff and you've asked them nicely to stop before, when do I draw the line at "friend" and "mod"?  And why should we play favorites?  Just because we know you more?  That sounds horrifically partial and biased.  If anything personal feelings towards someone should only determine HOW you approach the person causing problems, not whether or not you do it at all, or what consequences they face.  If I am not completely impartial in my decisions, despite my familiarity with the person involved, then I am a horrible judicator and mod.  Favoritism is never acceptable, even if it's just towards your friends.  Everyone deserves the same playing field no matter how much I may like or dislike them.  It's because of favoritism that some issues have boiled over way too long instead of actually taking care of them when they started.

Basically what I'm saying is, if you're being an idiot, it shouldn't matter if you're my friend or my worst enemy.  I'm going to call you out on it and deal the same punishment to either of you.  Only thing that being a friend matters is 1) I'll probably have a better chance of getting through to you and 2) I'll know a more appropriate way to address it.  Just because you're my friend doesn't excuse you from "getting the hammer" dropped on you if you're causing issues.  Trying to talk to a friend about an issue they're causing is probably the hardest part of my job.  I don't enjoy it.  I'm far more comfortable telling someone I don't know they're causing problems than to chastise someone I do know.  But at the same time, would it be fair for me to beat up on the new guy I don't know and just give a slap on the wrist for my buddy? :\

[Gappy]

If anything, it's actually helped us get more peoples in, as it got Gappy to show up around here and contribute a lot more.

I found this odd till I thought about it a little more....

And true, I hardly posted on MotK outside UGW until ijiyatsu came along ^^;; I guess it was a nice creative outlet for drawing and writing.

Honestly, I wasn't at all aware of anything wrong until all this came along. I'm sorry that what we were doing was upsetting people. I simply had no idea. I was just having fun ^^;;

Now that the art threads are gone, I guess have no more business in CPMC XD Well, I see the moving of the art threads as an opportunity. It was about time I stopped drawing this stuff anyway. It's high time I returned to my DA. So with that, thanks for supporting my art, (soon to be former) denizens of CPMC ^^ I hope you all enjoyed ogling them as much as I enjoyed drawing them.

Again, my apologies that they were causing some people grief ^^;; As I said, I never realized. Oh, don't worry (particularly certain people who brought this up with me on IRC last night), I will draw for MotK again from time to time, but most likely not ijiyatsu fan art.

Also, I guess everyone else has said what needs to be said. Thanks to the mods and admin for their fearless efforts in bringing the forum closer together. As I said, I had no idea these things were happening, and it takes courage on their part to do what needs to be done to fix what needs to be fixed. It's one thing to do the right thing, it's another to do it when you know you might be wrongly antagonized by doing it. For that, they earn our respect.

I'll be sure to drop by CPMC again whenever something interesting happens, like the dating challenge coming soon. Till then!

[helvetica]

I think you're completely misunderstanding things.  Your Ijiyatsu art threads weren't a problem at all, they were just in the wrong place :\

Don't think of this as a clamp down on CPMC.  If anything we just want you guys to branch out more, and make CPMC's naturally exclusive culture more inviting.  Look at poringleaf, didn't even have enough posts to post in CPMC but still drew some amazing Ijiyatsu art.  Same with Rika's Garage, what if a really talented DMF scripter hangs out there or finds it and wants to participate but can't because of the 10 post wall.  Why should we exclude people like that?

Really, the only reason the ten post limit exists is because there are tangible security issues at play here, and CPMC/UGW by their nature encourage posting a lot.  Avatars and PMs are restricted to people with 10 posts or more due to several possible security exploits, and to curb spam (real spam not CPMC spam).  The ten post limit on CPMC/UGW was to stop people from being able to just drop in there and spam their 10 posts without actually interacting with the community.  It was never meant to be a barrier of entry to stop new people from being able to participate in CPMC/UGW.

So by moving Ijiyatsu and other stuff out of CPMC, this allows the culture of CPMC to reach other parts of the forum who may not be familiar, as well as bridging a gap and giving new people a chance to fit themselves in.  Really how we see it is that a lot of the other subforums aren't very enticing to post because why post out there if the same threads are in CPMC but with the people you're familiar with?

Simply it's just a measure to get CPMC to break out of the current isolationist shell it's in, and to get the rest of the forum to also be able to participate.  And to really share what kind of talents the CPMC members have.  CPMC was never meant to be "All of MotK except with a 10 post barrier", it was meant to be the silly off-topic humor forum.

[Letty Whiterock]

To be honest, this community is A LOT better than most other communities I've been on, and not only will I thank the mods and admins for this, but for the majority of the members here that made it so. You guys are fun to hang with. I don't know how this place became the place where most kids got shoved out of /jp/, but again, never went on that place so no comment there.

Your standard is Flash Flash Revolution. Your outlook on other communities has nowhere to go but up.

(That said, I still think you shouldn't have to spend months Getting To Know a moderator before they don't come off as an egotistical prick.)

The way I see it (and have seen it for a while not only here but in other forums as well), if a moderator comes off as anything but a stoic judge who knows his power and lets everyone know of it as well, users will test you to see how far they can go. Showing any semblance of softness as a mod can and usually will result in poor moderation decisions through favoritism, fear of hurting feelings, or not wanting to rock the boat. As a moderator, I cannot allow that, and the best way to nip that problem in the bud is to become the jerk mod that I am while still being a reasonable and fun user second.

Moderator positions are often thankless ones due to the fact that we do have the power and sometimes exercise it much to our own dismay, and either because people don't agree with the decision or don't like authority in general, we are the bad guys that everyone wants to hide from. It's an unfortunate truth.

Also, the "egotistical prick" persona is really very much a personal thing as well. As it turns out, I've had people in real life wonder if I hate them or not because of my sense of humor and how I act, and eventually they come to discover that not only do I like them, but they can turn to me for pretty much anything. It may some social defect of mine, but I really do mean well.

The only create.swf comic I follow is yours. How many of them have Koishi in them. Only three

It worries me that you've kept count.

[Suikama]

I am so tsundere.

It's cool

[Gpop]

Your standard is Flash Flash Revolution. Your outlook on other communities has nowhere to go but up.

Not counting that place. Thank god it's dead now (literally).

It worries me that you've kept count.

Kinda easy when when the number of fics I read are just a little over my finger count.

(also, I might PM you about the pack and you submitting files if you're still interested).

[Nobu]

*phew* Finally read through this whole thing. Trying to keep a social life outside the forum happy when ZOMG stuff is happening here is difficult. Anyway. I'll try and keep this short since it'd be hard to find something to say without being redundant at this point. :x


Letty: I'm happy you did this. Not only did you dispel a lot of the unintentional intimidating aura around you, but you gave everyone a chance to communicate with each other directly. Really, a 'public callout' for those that'd like to call it that is the only way to effectively resolve conflicts of these natures, because there's no way to fix a lack of communication without communicating, and this makes sure everyone's on the same page.


TSO, Purv: About the debate of being a 'friend' over being a 'mod', I don't think you two are as on opposite sides as you think. I doubt Purvis means to play favorites, and I don't think TSO is arguing that it's okay to be a jerk.

Purvis was responding to Vic's comment, which basically said "it's cool to be a Jerk mod". But is a mod really being a jerk if their punishments are justified? If I were to blatantly disregard the rules, it shouldn't matter who I am when it comes to punishment. In my shoes, I might be like "Oh man what a jerk", but anyone else looking at the situation can see that it's not jerkiness if it was justified. 

As is made clear from this post, there is NO intention of the mods being jerks for the sake of being a jerk. Or if you want to look at it at a different fashion, the mods treat even the newest and unfamiliar member the same way as they would treat their closest friend, when it comes to administrating. That makes it sound a lot more appealing, heh.

[Gappy]

I think you're completely misunderstanding things.  Your Ijiyatsu art threads weren't a problem at all, they were just in the wrong place :\

I can see where people are coming from with ijiyatsu being a form of 'elitism'. Anyhow, even if that were not so, I somehow have my doubts people outside CPMC would understand ijiyatsu and appreciate ijiyatsu art. Let's face it. Frankly, it's art for what is essentially a big self-insert fest.

I don't think they are obliged to try and understand either and I would wholeheartedly understand if they either laugh at the very idea or even feel creeped out by it. It is, in all senses of the word, silly, and the only thing that made it okay to do was because it was being done in a subforum where silly was not only okay, it was encouraged. Now that it's in what I believe is very much a serious subforum, well....

Long story short - ijiyatsu is fun, yet silly, and it was okay because it was done in a silly subforum. Now the art thread is out there in what is a serious subforum amongst other serious threads with serious artists. You get the idea. 

[Letty Whiterock]

(also, I might PM you about the pack and you submitting files if you're still interested).

Sure, I have some things lying around that need homes. IMing me is also acceptable.

I can see where people are coming from with ijiyatsu being a form of 'elitism'. Anyhow, even if that were not so, I somehow have my doubts people outside CPMC would understand ijiyatsu and appreciate ijiyatsu art. Let's face it. Frankly, it's art for what is essentially a big self-insert fest.

I've sent people who don't even post here pictures of A-F's version of Ijiyatsu Letty and TSO. Believe me, it interests them.

[Kilgamayan]

I've sent people who don't even post her pictures of A-F's version of Ijiyatsu Letty and TSO.

What

You fuckass >:|

[GMOFucker: Makin' GMOs To Fuck 'Em]

Anyhow, even if that were not so, I somehow have my doubts people outside CPMC would understand ijiyatsu and appreciate ijiyatsu art. Let's face it. Frankly, it's art for what is essentially a big self-insert fest.

Ijiyatsu was one of the first things I ever saw here and I found it pretty interesting, if that counts for anything.

[Gappy]

I've sent people who don't even post her pictures of A-F's version of Ijiyatsu Letty and TSO. Believe me, it interests them.

Point is - art that was supposed to be completely for fun and gags is being placed in a place where art is taken seriously.

[Suikama]

I am also tsundere.

[UncertainJakutten]

And that has WHAT to do with anything?

[helvetica]

I can see where people are coming from with ijiyatsu being a form of 'elitism'. Anyhow, even if that were not so, I somehow have my doubts people outside CPMC would understand ijiyatsu and appreciate ijiyatsu art. Let's face it. Frankly, it's art for what is essentially a big self-insert fest.

How do you know?  Once again I'll bring up poringleaf who had never posted in CPMC prior and didn't even have enough, and yet still created fanart.  Just because it has CPMC members as the main focus doesn't mean there's no appeal outside of CPMC.  If anything it has very wide appeal considering it's one of the first major Western DMF projects.

I don't think they are obliged to try and understand either and I would wholeheartedly understand if they either laugh at the very idea or even feel creeped out by it. It is, in all senses of the word, silly, and the only thing that made it okay to do was because it was being done in a subforum where silly was not only okay, it was encouraged. Now that it's in what I believe is very much a serious subforum, well....

CF is a serious subforum?  When did that happen?  It's just a subforum for people to post their writings and art.  There's absolutely nothing "serious business" about it.

Long story short - ijiyatsu is fun, yet silly, and it was okay because it was done in a silly subforum. Now the art thread is out there in what is a serious subforum amongst other serious threads with serious artists. You get the idea.

I consider your art serious art and you a serious artist.  Stop self-depreciating yourself so much.  Just because the concept art is personifying members of MotK doesn't make it any less "serious" than someone doodling Koishi.

[Kuma]

"The vague existence of reputation" sounds like the title of a touhou game :V

I have nothing inteligent to add.

[Furienify]

So why are we all acting that now that, ok, some threads have moved out of CPMC, we all need to like... pack up out bags and bid farewell?

Guys, the forum still is a click away. I load the page in milliseconds. Same stuff's more or less here. There's no need to say goodbye or even act like much has changed.

[Pako]

UK calm down, otherwise this will probably not end well and we don't want that to happen.

And by gosh, this is turning into a warzone.

[Kilgamayan]

Oh, well then.

[Alfred F. Jones]

I'm at a public library and as such I don't have much time to offer anything of much importance, BUT I do feel compelled to reiterate one point, then (no doubt inspired by where I am) offer a suggestion.

CPMC is not the whole forum. It has been said over and over again. There are lots of other places where you can go and have fun discussing Touhou or enjoying the danmaku, and yes, find newbies and the like who can't post in CPMC that you may have missed up until now because you've been spending all your time here.

I don't think I've been spending much time here myself lately, and that brings me to my suggestion:

OH GOD FANWORKS NEEDS SOME FANS PLEASE. THEY'RE STARVED FOR ATTENTION OVER THERE. SUPPORT THE STARVING WRITERS AND ARTISTS PLEASE. ;_;

I maintain at least two ongoing pieces of fiction over there (I'm pretty sure I won't be able to write Kurumi and Elly again, btw) and it pains me to glance through other writers' threads and see how little feedback they get. I am half convinced that the only reason I get reviews is because of my "position" here in the CPMC community, and not because of the actual quality of my work. Don't get me wrong: I love it when you guys read Sweet Dreams and tell me that you are eagerly waiting for my next installment. But I am not the only person who writes in fanworks, and neither is Roukanken, or Muffin, or UD, or Mima.

Anyone who writes-- hell, anyone who pursues a creative endeavour, be it music or art or literature-- knows how much it stings to see that their work goes unnoticed. I've seen too many writers insert messages like "I would love to see reviews if anyone is actually reading this" at the end of their latest update. While I think it's part of growth as an artist to keep going even though no one cares, I know from personal experience that it feels great to get recognition. To use a flowery simile metaphor, when I was first starting out writing on the old forums, seeing someone post in White Rose saying "I love your work and I want to see more" made me want to leap out of my chair and dance amongst the clouds.

I cannot stress this enough: there are lots of quality works in Fanworks that could use just as much attention as any thread in CPMC, and I do think they need more attention than they currently recieve. It's gotten to the point that some people have posted their fanworks here and not there, and here I will unfairly single out Mode and her Ijiyatsu fiction, which is actually kind of justified since Fanworks is reserved for Touhou fanworks, not Ijiyatsu. To use a better example, I will point to A-F's and Slaves' art threads, which have been moved to Fanworks because that's where they should have been all along (even though effectively half the content in there isn't Touhou-related, I think it's justified because artists do like to post unrelated stuff sometimes to see the reactions).

In any case, I reiterate my plea: Get out of CPMC more often and check out the content on other portions of the site. And no, not just Fanworks; Outside World could use some more attention. Go there and talk about the news or what books you read or the latest stupid law you've seen pass on the evening news. Everything Else exists for a reason, and so does Touhou Addict Recovery Centre. The latter especially is home to a lot of newbies who would love to get to know this site better but are denied the chance because none of the really vivacious personalities go there anymore, preferring to stay holed up in CPMC. This place will not lose its tight-knit nature and it will not implode overnight if you stop paying attention to it for a while. There are plenty of other boards, sub-boards, and threads that would really love your patronage, too.

Warning - while you were typing 10 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

For the love of god, will you people just stop arguing amongst one another? UK, I like you a lot, but you really need to stop jumping at every slight criticism of your behaviour and attitude, because it is not unwarranted.

Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.

Ugh, forget it. I wanted to say what I wrote above, and whether or not anyone notices (and I would bet money that they won't, but I've given up gambling) I've said what I wanted to say and I'm through here.

[Gappy]

How do you know?  Once again I'll bring up poringleaf who had never posted in CPMC prior and didn't even have enough, and yet still created fanart.  Just because it has CPMC members as the main focus doesn't mean there's no appeal outside of CPMC.  If anything it has very wide appeal considering it's one of the first major Western DMF projects.

CF is a serious subforum?  When did that happen?  It's just a subforum for people to post their writings and art.  There's absolutely nothing "serious business" about it.

I consider your art serious art and you a serious artist.  Stop self-depreciating yourself so much.  Just because the concept art is personifying members of MotK doesn't make it any less "serious" than someone doodling Koishi.

Thanks, TSO ^^ I appreciate that. Still, it doesn't change the fact that what I've been drawing are self-insert OCs. I'm also a fanfic writer and in fanfic terms it's like writing a self-insert Mary Sue fanfic. Serious fanfic writers wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot stick, unless it was in a very limited gag circle.

The same applies here. As you pointed out, I am a serious artist. I would only draw these things in a gag circle. And you may not see CF as a serious place but artists and writers take what they do very, very seriously. I know. I was the first art poster on the 'post your artwork' thread.

In short - I didn't want to put it this frankly for fear of offending anyone, but not only am I uncomfortable with posting any new ijiyatsu art there, I'm uncomfortable with my ijiyatsu art being in that subforum at all. In fact, I have half a mind to request that you simply lock my ijiyatsu art thread and archive it in the archive section of CPMC. If people want another general ijiyatsu art thread, they can start a new one.

Still, I wholly understand your reasoning behind moving the art threads. It is in every way logical. In fact, my thoughts on the matter might not seem logical at all from the point of view of others and I can understand that. This is irrational behaviour. The other ijiyatsu artists might not see this the same way I do. It is wholly a personal thing and there is nobody to blame but myself for thinking this way. Still, it doesn't change the fact that this is how I feel about my art thread being moved.

[Letty Whiterock]

Point is - art that was supposed to be completely for fun and gags is being placed in a place where art is taken seriously.

Do people not take every piece of art that they make seriously, even if it looks silly like a lot of Slaves's stuff?

edit: Holy crap, what just happened. *plays reading catch-up*

[Gappy]

EDIT: this came out late. Disregard it ^^;;

UK, what the others said. I don't quite understand the overall issue but I agree with you in that, yes, a few things could have been handled with a little more subtlety and care by certain people here. However, responding in kind...or rather, responding with extreme hostility, on your part, simply makes you just as bad, if not worse. Please do calm down. We all know you and love you enough not to see you any worse for whatever people might say. Your reputation cannot be marred that easily ^^

[UncertainJakutten]

I would be happy to split this thread into a new one for you. Is this all right with you?

If no one cares. It might not even be worth a thread.

[Matsuri]

I would say it is if you wish to debate this further.

[Hello Purvis]

OH GOD FANWORKS NEEDS SOME FANS PLEASE. THEY'RE STARVED FOR ATTENTION OVER THERE. SUPPORT THE STARVING WRITERS AND ARTISTS PLEASE. ;_;

<excellent points>

Speaking as a writer who has been internettin' it for about a decade now, this is always the case with fiction, particularly fan fiction. It takes desire, time, and attention to read things and comment on them intelligently. Many people don't care to do it.

You want to drum up attention for people's stuff? (Get someone to) Write a <time period-based repetition> literary review of the works going on there. Give a quick summary, both of the story's events and the type of story, then link it. Then post it up in Math Class or Everything Else or wherever you think people need to see it. Maybe spotlight older works worthy of attention. It'll help people know what's what and what's interesting, and natural curiosity will follow.

If you're really brave, add in some ratings. But be aware this will lead to a huge amount of whining and whinging. But it would be a hella service.

[UncertainJakutten]

I would say it is if you wish to debate this further.

I wish to debate it further. That doesn't necessarily mean anyone ELSE does. Quite frankly, the way I bungled the opening comments does not make many favorably disposed towards debate. I'm basically tempted to request that if they do have counterpoints, just tell me privately and we'll work it out. But, then I lose the advantage of having my stance publically known to avoid misunderstandings. It's rather tricky.