The PNP-Theory: Drug Abuse in Gensokyo

[OkashiiKisei]

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CAUTION - CAUTION - CAUTION
A WALL OF TEXT
IS FAST APPROACHING
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EDIT: This thread was originally titled 'Theory: Suika isn't the only giant', with as subject the notion that Touhou's grow in size when they are bosses and/or use powerful spellcards. The thread has spriraled so far from the original notion that the name is changed to fit the current subject more. This first post will still be about the Boss Growth theory, but after that, starting from Sakana's post, it's about the Gensokyo Drug Abuse theory, or PNP-Theory (Power aNd Point items). It would still be important to read this first post to understand the theory completely. Without further ado, read on.
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We all know Suika's main use of her density powers is making herself ginormous, right?

This ability seems to be unique to only her, but recently I have noticed something that might not make it so unique after all.

When looking at the sprites of the characters (particulary PoFV), I noticed one major difference between player sprites and boss sprites.

Boss sprites are three times larger than player sprites.
Alright, let's all ignore any gameplay and/or production oriented answers for this, and use Gensokyo logic instead.
I theorise that all magic users in Touhou grow in size when exerting a large amount of their strength.
Think about it. The boss characters have loads of health and use extremely complex and powerful spellcards and patterns. They need lots of power to do all that. The player meanwhile only shoots a few bullets and go down with one hit, only able to use spellcards that go on for a short limit of time. They use way less power. In other words, when being an 'attacker' the girls use a small amount of their power, staying their normal size. But when they have to be a 'defender', they need to exert way more power for their flashy moves. This results in them growing in size.

In PoFV, every character has this. On your side of the screen, they're midgets, but when using a spellcard your character appears three times her normal size on the enemy's screen, using devastating moves. Characters stay their normal size in the fighting games because they mostly use physical attacks and small spells, instead of their usual Bullet Hell danmaku fighting. Thus, they exert less power, and stay normal size.

Suika is just capable of growing bigger than that whenever she wants to. Others can only do it at times of extreme power exertion.

I know it's a wacky theory, but I thought it might be fun to consider.  :V

[Stuffman]

The notion that all touhous acquire HUGE GUTS when they declare is a hilarious mental image.

[E-Nazrin]

:ChoMarisa.jpg:

[Nyyl]

I dunno, I'm pretty sure the boss sprites are just bigger so you c--

Alright, let's all ignore any gameplay and/or production oriented answers for this, and use Gensokyo logic instead.

Bawww, that's cheating XD

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Gensokyo logic? As in 'nonsense theories are welcome'? Well, why not~  :V

WARNING! Wall of text approaching!

*fixes glasses*
Ahem, so students, today I'm gonna talk about what your classmate OkashiiNaito asked yesterday. Let's see...

Ok, so my guess is that it has to do with this red and blue pills that we know as power and point items. If we assume they're a kind of power-enhancing drug, combined with your argument that using power makes the character bigger, it all makes sense.
As we know, the player characters take in those pills (not in PoFV, but whatever) to strengthen themselves, but only up to a certain amount. There's a threshold after which they would probably grow in size as well, that's what we know as 'Max Power'.
It would also explain why (in some games) you get extra lives for points: It shows the accumulated power that is enough to revive a person after being hit by a bullet.

Now where do we get those pills from? Yes, from the enemies, the fairies as well as the bosses.
Remember, not only the bosses are bigger than the player, usual fairies also appear bigger than they should be in comparison to a human. But when they die, or when a boss loses a good part of her strength, those pills become freed from their body and float around until they're taken in by somebody else.
That also applies for when the player dies, as we all know.

So, in conclusion, the fairies as well as the bosses have taken those drugs before each and every battle, thus increasing their size.
If we reverse this theory, then a fairy that could survive the player's onslaught and grab the pill it lost it could grow in size and attack again. In the same fashion could a boss regain strength if she were to recollect the pills she loses after a spellcard or were to take in those dropped by a player on death. A frightening perspective indeed...

So, this concludes my lesson on drug-abuse in Gensokyo  :V

(Btw, just to avoid a wrong impression, I'm not laughing at Naito's theory, I just wanted to present my thoughts in a humourous manner. I see what I said as one possible theory to explain the phenomenom described in the OP)

[Bias Bus]

I have a buddy that thinks Byakuren is like 8 feet tall, because of her boss sprite :V

[Helepolis]

When a large Tewi enters your screen as boss mode, you know you are screwed.

[OkashiiKisei]

So, this concludes my lesson on drug-abuse in Gensokyo  :V

Win, my friend. Absolute win XD

[OkashiiKisei]

Ok, so my guess is that it has to do with this red and blue pills that we know as power and point items. If we assume they're a kind of power-enhancing drug, combined with your argument that using power makes the character bigger, it all makes sense.
As we know, the player characters take in those pills (not in PoFV, but whatever) to strengthen themselves, but only up to a certain amount. There's a threshold after which they would probably grow in size as well, that's what we know as 'Max Power'.
It would also explain why (in some games) you get extra lives for points: It shows the accumulated power that is enough to revive a person after being hit by a bullet.

Now where do we get those pills from? Yes, from the enemies, the fairies as well as the bosses.
Remember, not only the bosses are bigger than the player, usual fairies also appear bigger than they should be in comparison to a human. But when they die, or when a boss loses a good part of her strength, those pills become freed from their body and float around until they're taken in by somebody else.
That also applies for when the player dies, as we all know.

So, in conclusion, the fairies as well as the bosses have taken those drugs before each and every battle, thus increasing their size.

Perhaps what makes the player character avoid growing in size is because they only absorb fragments of the drug, while the bosses and fairies have probably taken a very potent version of the drug, increasing their size. Another explanation is that the bosses are going all out, and thus exert the power of the drugs in full, making them grow, while the player is trying as hard as possible to keep going and to conserve energy to make it through subsequent stages and bosses, concentrating to maintain their size. When concentrating, they are able to surpress the growth of their bodies and unleashment of valuable power, and instead siphon the power into extra lives.

This discussion is starting to make me wonder what would happen when a Touhou overdoses on the drug....transformation into ones feral youkai form perhaps? Most youkai used to be beastial before becoming loli's.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Oh god, we're making a drug-based theory of Gensokyo, and the worst thing is that it wokrs pretty well  :V
So, let's continue for a bit.

Hm, in fact I think we can even tell where the drug concentration takes place in the users body: The hitbox.
If we accept that, then it would make sense that the hitbox is the only vurnerable place on a character. Hitting the concentration point of the drug makes it dissolve and exit the user's body, therefore she loses power and 'dies'.
Because the bosses have taken an overdose, as you have theorized, the drug diffuses in their body, creating the large hitbox that we know. (Guess for yourself what that would mean for Letty  :V)

Perhaps what makes the player character avoid growing in size is because they only absorb fragments of the drug, while the bosses and fairies have probably taken a very potent version of the drug, increasing their size.

It could also be that the constant shooting uses enough power to prevent the growing effect. A balance between intake and outcome.

This discussion is starting to make me wonder what would happen when a Touhou overdoses on the drug....transformation into ones feral youkai form perhaps? Most youkai used to be beastial before becoming loli's.

Well, taking your last statement we could guess that, first of all, contact with the drug makes a non-human being or object change into a humanoid loli carrying signs of her former appearance (ears, tail...). That would be the process of becoming a youkai, giving the being individualized special powers in the process.
As for how even further obverdosing would change an already drugged being, I cannot imagine right now. But seeing as some of the stronger youkai have a more adult body, maybe it makes them not only grow in size, but also results in aging, leading to a much mature appearance if one has taken more of the drug.

What is now on my mind is: Is that drug leading to addiction?
Because if it is, we might have to closely reexamine the reasons why Reimu goes on a regular rampage against fairies, youkais and other strong beings.
Is it really to save Gensokyo, or is it her need for something else?  :V

[OkashiiKisei]

Well, taking your last statement we could guess that, first of all, contact with the drug makes a non-human being or object change into a humanoid loli carrying signs of her former appearance (ears, tail...). That would be the process of becoming a youkai, giving the being individualized special powers in the process.
As for how even further obverdosing would change an already drugged being, I cannot imagine right now. But seeing as some of the stronger youkai have a more adult body, maybe it makes them not only grow in size, but also results in aging, leading to a much mature appearance if one has taken more of the drug.

What is now on my mind is: Is that drug leading to addiction?
Because if it is, we might have to closely reexamine the reasons why Reimu goes on a regular rampage against fairies, youkais and other strong beings.
Is it really to save Gensokyo, or is it her need for something else?  :V

Ok, for the first point, it's starting to seem like the point drug has an Bishonen Line side effect. From beast/in-animate object to loli, to giant loli, to bishoujo, and who knows what lies beyond that? When looking at the Bishonen Line graph on TV Tropes and we assume that bishoujo isn't the final stage, they will probably turn into godly beautiful beings, and be just as powerful. But if the bishoujo stage is indeed the final stage then, according to the Bishonen Line, they will turn monstrous again before returning to humanoid. So for example Remi would turn into a Dracula-esque dragon bat if she would overdose. Yukari would either turn into Azatoth or Giratina :V

For the second point......sweet Byakuren. It is all so clear now. The reason why Reimu attacks innocent youkai (R.I.P. Orange), is the first to act on incidents, has not much contact with humans......it's all because of her power hungry drug abuse. Think about it: she's incredibly lazy, and why do people take steroids? Because they are to lazy to train. The points are hyper magic steroids. It all clicks together. Reimu will keep collecting points without end, until she's either the most powerful being in Gensokyo or if she too turns monstrous. And since she only hangs out with other youkai and magical humans who use the exact same stuff, they will only SUPPORT her! No human being would be able, or dare, to stop her from her mad lust for power. We have unraveled Reimu's goal! Her driving point! And if you look closely....the same is happening to Sanae too.......

[Dead Princess Sakana]

I have to save that thread once we run out of ideas. That might make for some nice fiction material in the future  :V

Just some small additions now before I go to sleep:

Bishonen Line

We should make that 'Bishoujo' or else I fear for our cute Touhou girls. Unless the drugs ultimate effect when overdosed was genderswap, which would be horrible.
Though it would make [:ChoMarisa:] fit into the theory pretty well.

they will turn monstrous again before returning to humanoid.

We might see a case of this here. A frightening perspective indeed. Though it would be hard to determine into what the ones that have not been an animal before would turn into. That would actually be a rather large part of the cast, if not the majority. And I can't think of anything monstrous that, for example, Cirno would turn into.

And if you look closely....the same is happening to Sanae too.......

Though her case might be even more tragic, seeing as we could speculate that she was forced into taking the drug by her godesses in order to gather faith. Losing against Reimu & Marisa could then have made her use so much of the drug that her powers and addiction reached the level at which she could qualify as a player character.
That would also take the whole 'Youkai-Nazi' point from her. Rather should her excitement be explained by the intake of the drug and the following disappearance of withdrawal effects.

And since I mentioned Marisa:
Notice that she runs on shrooms in addition to the drug, meaning she gains an extra power boost.
That can easily be perceived when she releases the overflowing energy in the form of her favourite move 'Master Spark', or even worse 'Final Spark'. There are no other spellcards that I can state right now that have about the same amount of pure destructive power as those.
Also the absurd-power-laser-Marisa in MoF might have been far from a programming error, but rather the effect of her drug-consumation that resulted in an uncontrollable power leak. Would she have tried to hold that energy in, then she would have likely grown to the size of a boss.
And if we accept the existance of [:ChoMarisa:], something I hardly want to do, we can easily see the effects that overdosing the drug has on a human body (if we take magicians as humans), though it might have different results on a youkai.

[OkashiiKisei]

I'm already having some ideas about how we could turn this into a story

Sorry, I just used the official term from TV Tropes. I didn't mean to give you the idea the drug causes gender swap too. Perhaps it is for the better we use Bishoujo Line when regarding Touhou characters. And indeed, I don't like the idea of Cho Marisa either....*shiver* Though the Mushroom thing really does explain Marisa's overpoweredness.

We might see a case of this here. A frightening perspective indeed. Though it would be hard to determine into what the ones that have not been an animal before would turn into. That would actually be a rather large part of the cast, if not the majority. And I can't think of anything monstrous that, for example, Cirno would turn into.

Well, I already do have some ideas of what the characters could turn into. As already mentioned, Remi would turn into a dragon bat that seems at home in the Castlevania games, and Meiling would make a good Chinese dragon (may it either be the multi headed brute in the picture, or a more anthropomorphic form).
I imagine Cirno and the other fairies to turn into blazing entities, completely composed of the element they represent. They would also sport more diabolical wings and have slight inhuman features like long claws. Their face would be completely obscured by the blaze, save for piercing, glowing eyes. They would quite literally be Energy Beings.
For Patchy, I imagine her to turn into a purple version of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtzkVuQTDbM
Flan's a vampire like Remi too, but her wings suggest that she isn't really of the normal kind. Instead of a dragonic vampire bat, I think she would rather turn into a horrific crystaline flea or mosquito (hey, they're blood suckers). And Rumia would be some tentacle monster made of darkness.
With enough time and a tiny bit of 'imaaaagination', I think it would be quite easy to make monster forms for almost all the girls (with as possible exception the humans).

[mew77]

I think that rather than trying to make a story out of this theory.

We can make it more sceintific...

The realist's guide to gensokyo or something.

A compilation of theories that explain the inner workings of the fantasy universe.
It would be more entertaining than just a story.

Considering this theory though, I'd like to expand on it.
(Hold for wall of text)


Back in the forst couple windows games bosses released 1UP,s upon defeat. This changed in SA, and bosses only gave out pieces of star on defeat. The stage one bosses in SA were signifigantly harder than their equivalent in MoF.
If the theory still holds that extra lives are also a manifestation of the PNP(Power aNd Point items) WHy did bosses from before MoF release 1Up;s and later bosses only relinquishing pieces of 1UPs? The answer is that as bosses became more difficult, their bodies retianed more and more PNP each use. They were adapting to it, much like drug addicts in our world adapt to their substance. So the amount released when a boss is weakened is less. Fairies are unaffected by this principle however and release the same amount of PNP when killed. This could be why stages are harder in UFO. Or at least that's why I think. Reimu, Marisa and Sanae needed more of the substance so they purposely coose to fly the long route in order to find more generic enemies to get thier fix. Reimu and marisa must have learned in SA that bosses release less PNP, and so they had to find more enemies.

A bomb is like an sobering draught. It releases accumulated power into an attack. If everyone was addicted to PNP(Hey my new term is quite catchy) then why would they wish to expel it? Because the body can only handle so much of it. Hence max power. Or perhaps the player character is restraining themselves. Going by the theories of everyone else on this thread, that seems the most likely case. On that note bombs are essential to these fine folk, as a way to quickly expel excess power. Strangely this makes it seem like binge drinking, but it's really not.

Now UFO's, when summoned they collected PNP from the surroudning area until satiated and then released more PNP when destroyed. Especially blue ones which would release up to 8 times. How do these fall within the theory?

And what is the origin of PNP anyway. What is the history of drug abuse in Gensokyo?

I'm sure that together we can find an answer.

Wow, this is starting to sound like a discovery channel show now...

[Dead Princess Sakana]

We can make it more sceintific...

The realist's guide to gensokyo or something.

A compilation of theories that explain the inner workings of the fantasy universe.
It would be more entertaining than just a story.

I wouldn't have a problem with that. Though we should take it to the Community Fanworks in that case, because I think we're already straining the borders of Addict Recovery Center here  :V
Should we PM one of the mods and ask if a thread for us to discuss those theories would be ok in the Fanworks?

PNP

I approve of that term. So our first theory shall now be known as the 'PNP-Theory'  :V

I'm already having some ideas about how we could turn this into a story

Do it, do it , do it! I'd be willing to help out if necessary as well.

[mew77]

Good...well, I guess we shall have to move it.

Call it the hitchhikers guide to gensokyo or something like that.

Oh I've got it.

The Outsider's Guide to Gensokyo.

And print that on the front with big friendly letters.

And I'm glad that you like the term I coined 

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Alright, I will get to it in a few hours and create the thread in the Fanworks. I'll put together all parts of the theory that we have created up to now and throw them in there as well so we can continue where we left off or start the next theory. We'll see how it goes.
Also, I think Outsider's Guide is alright, so we'll stick with that.

[OkashiiKisei]

Well, I still need some more theories before it would be a good story. I'm also not very experienced with writing yet, so I'm not sure if I would be any good at making a fine story. Your 'Outsiders Guide to Gensokyo' idea looks very promising though. It's going to be hard to reach the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy's humor though. The 'PNP-Theory' is an awesome name by the way

Now UFO's, when summoned they collected PNP from the surroudning area until satiated and then released more PNP when destroyed. Especially blue ones which would release up to 8 times. How do these fall within the theory?

And what is the origin of PNP anyway. What is the history of drug abuse in Gensokyo?

I'm sure that together we can find an answer.

I think I already have a theory how PNP comes to existance. Gensokyo is one of the few places in the world left with any form of magic. Considering that outside of Gensokyo (and it's adjacent worlds/countries) man hardly beliefs in magic (or even divine interference), it might be quite possible that magical energy is becoming very scarce. When the world used to be more faithful, there was more than enough magical energy for all youkai and sorcerors. They could easily just absorb the magic from the air around them to power their spells.
But now, with an unfaithful world, magic has started to decline. There isn't enough magic left for youkai to freely absorb whenever they want. The only creatures who are still capable of absorbing magical power are fairies and various F.O.E.'s. They process the magical power into the infamous PNP. So, for youkai to maintain their strength, they will be forced to hunt fairies, F.O.E's and sometimes even lesser youkai to obtain more PNP. That's why fairies swarm and are prone to attack when a powerful youkai is around: They are afraid....afraid they will be the next to be 'devoured'. Like various kinds of fish, they gather together and try to defend themselves. Sometimes they aren't capable of distinguishing the attacking youkai from other creautures in the vincinity, and start attacking them too. That's why Reimu gets attacked by swarms of fairies right before she faces the boss: They think she's an enemy too. Thus, Reimu counters the attack to defend herself.
This also explains why bosses have so much more points than you: while you were flying through the stage, they were on a fairy killing spree, getting more and more power to prepare for battle. Sometimes Reimu catches a youkai while she's still charging and hunting, resulting in a mid-boss battle. Eventually the youkai retreats, having underestimated the foe, to collect more power, before returning with far more dangerous attacks.

Gentlemen, we have discovered an actual food chain in Gensokyo! The fairies and F.O.E.'s are the plants, the lesser youkai (stage 1-3 bosses) are the herbivores and the greater youkai (stage 4-6+X bosses) are carnivores. The player characters are omnivores!

The UFO's have to be devices created by powerful youkai to easily harvest magic and process it into PNP. They are basically artificial fairies, capable of producing FAR more PNP than a fairy normaly would, and without any risks of it fleeing or attacking. What these powerful youkai haven't taken in regard is the fact that other beings might destroy these devices and take the containing power for their own!

Youkai get addicted because their biological make up had was once used to a constant nourishment of magic. They are addicted to the magic power. Now that their body's are slowly addapting to the lower amounts of magic, they release less PNP. But their minds are now used to collecting large amounts of PNP, so even though their bodies would need less PNP, they still keep collecting to unhealthy amounts. This might explain youkai's sudden jump in power between MoF and SA: They are starting to overdose more and more. Because of this overdosing, their bodies are starting to swell up to contain the extra amounts of energy. Thus the growth of youkai bodies. Maybe that's why most youkai are female: Female bodies can mostly contain more than male bodies (regarding pregnancy, breast growth etc.). Some of these side effects might also be caused by the notion that PNP is slightly corrupted magical energy, since it has been contained in fairies and other beasties. This could have unhealthy consequences.

Great, now it actually looks like a Discovery Channel documentary.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

It's going to be hard to reach the Hitchhikers Guide To The Galaxy's humor though.

I don't think we even intend to reach that level. That's just impossible. But we'll all do our best, I suppose  :V
Also, I won't do the new thread today. I will need some time to gather what we have and write it up a bit, so maybe on Wednesday I'll be finished. Though if one of you guys wants to do it you may as well.

And last: Nice food chain theory, Naito! It fits in well  :V

[Alfred F. Jones]

I have a buddy that thinks Byakuren is like 8 feet tall, because of her boss sprite :V

That would not be completely out of the realm of possibility, using Gensokyo logic. Remember, most of Byakuren's magic is self-augmenting, so if nothing else she sounds like she would be likely to make herself really really tall (probably to match the strength and speed she shows in St. Nikou's Air Scroll, which is a wonderful exercise in FUCK THIS BULLET SHIT I'M GONNA PUNCH YOU IN THE JAW). Heck, St. Nikou's Air Scroll is itself renamed Superhuman for lunatic modo, so again, it's not an entirely crazy idea that Byakuren would be eight feet tall...

And this doesn't need to be moved to Fanworks, as it is not yet a full-fledged fanwork, essay or otherwise. I still think this thread ought to continue in this forum as you gather more theories. However, Sakana, should you wish to post those collected theories in Fanworks later on once you have enough, feel free to do so.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

And this doesn't need to be moved to Fanworks, as it is not yet a full-fledged fanwork, essay or otherwise. I still think this thread ought to continue in this forum as you gather more theories. However, Sakana, should you wish to post those collected theories in Fanworks later on once you have enough, feel free to do so.

Acknowledged. We will then gather more stuff here for the time being.

@ Naito: As you created it, maybe you could change the thread name a bit to represent what we're actually doing in here  :V

[OkashiiKisei]

@ Naito: As you created it, maybe you could change the thread name a bit to represent what we're actually doing in here  :V

Alright, done. Title sounds alot catchier now. :V I also added a notice regarding the large subject slip from the first post to yours and onwards.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Great, thanks  :V

Anyway, I would like to continue the theory, but I don't really know which points we still left blank. We covered the existence of PNP, its effect on youkai and the following evolution, the effects on the bodies of players and bosses, its use in the battles, how it is stored in bodies, in which form it exists in Gensokyo and where it can be found, how it regulates the food chain. Sounds almost complete if you ask me. Anything I missed?

[OkashiiKisei]

Well, we haven't exactly discussed what would happen to a human if they consumed to much of the drug. Youkai turn into monsters, but we haven't really figured out what happens with humans. Do they go super buff like Cho Marisa? *shudders* No, I don't really like the idea of that..... Do they change into youkai?
Yes....yes.....the points might explain how Alice became a youkai in the first place...... If we assume PNP turn humans eventualy into youkai, it might explain how Alice became a youkai. The requirements of becoming a youkai magician is to learn to abandon all forms of food and other nourishment. Perhaps it is replaced with the need for PNP? Or maybe the absence of a need for food is a product of prolonged PNP absorption? That may be true.
Marisa was raised by a human family, and had thus no family members who could guide her in her study of magic....or provide her with PNP to quicken her growth.
Alice, meanwhile, was raised in Makai (presumably by Shinki), and obviously got pampered in her magic development by being provided with huge amounts of PNP delivered by her caretakers. This made her become a youkai mage quickly.
Marisa is forced to take matters in her own hands and collect enough PNP by herself to reach a prolonged life span. This may also be the reason sge uses the mushrooms: She hopes it quickens the 'youkaification' proces.

If a human consumes enough PNP, they would become youkai. But the dangers lie far greater with humans. Perhaps like normal drugs, an overdose or improper use might result in death for a human, while a youkai would instead transform into a monstrous mockery of itself. That's why humans don't like magicians much, and usualy have no interest in becoming one: They are juggling with their own lives. Even then, overdoses for humans might also be able to cause slight mutations. I imagine Sakuya to sprout bladed spider limbs from her back if she would ever overdose. These horrific changes could be deadly in and of itself, for humans have less stamina than youkai, and would have a harder time surviving the change.

And we also have another poit: Can a youkai change back after transforming from overdose?
Well, since youkai release PNP when defeated, one might be able to change a transformed youkai back by beating them up, releasing the PNP. But the risk is that the rain of PNP that would result of the youlai's defeat could turn youkai in the vicinity into beasts if they're not careful.
Either that, or they need to keep strolling along the Bishoujo Line before they become their cutesy selves again.
This also takes into question if one is still sentient while one is transformed. Or are they completely mindless in that state, hunting friend and foe for more PNP?

Well, do you think we have missed anything else Sakana? What about you, Mew77? Perhaps we can still think something up.

[Dead Princess Sakana]

Hey, that were some more nice points you made there. Good work!
Yes, we should look more at the effects on humans. THere is still a lot of work to do  :V

And now, let me contribute once again:

Perhaps like normal drugs, an overdose or improper use might result in death for a human, while a youkai would instead transform into a monstrous mockery of itself. That's why humans don't like magicians much, and usualy have no interest in becoming one: They are juggling with their own lives.

That was my thought as well, and it makes it easy to cover some more residents of Gensokyo.
Because there has been one person who has succesfully altered PNP so as to prevent death on overdose as well as transformation: Eirin!
I think we should assume that what she calls the Hourai Elixir is in fact a stronger or concentrated version of PNP that was rid of the death- and mutation-effects (though not completely, as Mokou's phoenix shows).
Or maybe it would be possible that it makes an individual skip those steps and raises it to the highest thinkable form: an immortal bishoujo!

In that case we would have to speculate wether only humans can reach that immortal form or wether a youkai would also reach it if she consumes even more PNP after turning from monster to bishoujo.
In fact, maybe a youkai bishoujo overdosing PNP once again will the turn into what we know as a god.

Imagine it like this: A little snake comes into contact with PNP and turns into a snake youkai (I think you can guess where I'm going). It then actively hunts for PNP until it reaches human-youkai form, that of a girl with maybe snake eyes or a snake tail. Upon further consumption of PNP by hunting fairies she then turns into a giant snake monster. In that state it is crucial for her not to make too much of a ruckus, because if she were to be attacked (by a certain shrine maiden for example) she would revert to her previous form. By staying in hiding and hunting more, maybe even fellow youkai, she then gains enough PNP to overdose and turn into bishoujo form. That still not being enough, driven by addiction and thirst for power, she hunts down other strong beings (probaby fellow youkai bishoujo) that have a high concentration of PNP. Finally she overdoses once again and turns into a snake godess, known by the name of Kanako.
It might be that there is a chance that instead of becoming a godess a youkai might also die from the overdose, just like a human.

Also it should be noted that there are many weak gods (like the Aki sisters), so I'm not entirely sure how they would come into existance, because they are certainly not strong enough to take the same path as Kanako or Suwako did.
I think that maybe the amount of PNP needed for overdosing might be proportional to the body size of an individual. Therefore it is much easier for smaller beings or objects to become youkai, but at the same time they are a lot weaker, because they gain less of PNP's power-enhancing effect. That might explain things why things like mouse-, bird- or bug-youkai are usually weak stage 1 or 2 bosses. That could even explain the Akis. If we suppose that they evolved out of inanimate objects, namely grapes and yams, then it makes sense. They could easily become gods (though it is funny to imagine them in monster-form) with a small amount of PNP, but they stay weak despite that.

[OkashiiKisei]

I'm sorry Sanaka, but this new contribution to our theories contains some holes.

That was my thought as well, and it makes it easy to cover some more residents of Gensokyo.
Because there has been one person who has succesfully altered PNP so as to prevent death on overdose as well as transformation: Eirin!
I think we should assume that what she calls the Hourai Elixir is in fact a stronger or concentrated version of PNP that was rid of the death- and mutation-effects (though not completely, as Mokou's phoenix shows).
Or maybe it would be possible that it makes an individual skip those steps and raises it to the highest thinkable form: an immortal bishoujo!

*CAUTION! WALL OF TEXT APPROACHING! CAUTION!*
This highly possible. But there is one minor error in this: PNP didn't exist back then. We have already concluded that PNP came into existence with the creation of Gensokyo and the decline of magic. Back then magic was still everywhere. But Eirin could have achieved the same goal by creating the Hourai Elixer from an extreme amount of pure magical energy, collected over a long time. This makes a human completely skip the youkai and monster stages, and indeed reach the immoratal bishoujo stage (I mean LOOK at Kaguya and Mokou! They have to be two of the most ungodly beautiful characters in the series! Especially their long, silky hair). This might even come back in production errors: Mokou and Kaguya were originally planned to appear in the fighting games, but were scrapped because they were TOO overpowered and broken! This overpoweredness might be because they have reached a stage far beyond most of the other characters!
And indeed, Mokou has retained a small percent of the monster stage, in the form of her phoenix features. That may be because Mokou stole her Hourai Elixer from a normal person, while Kaguya got hers from the nigh omniscient Eirin. Thus, the one Mokou got might have been flawed, and didn't remove the monster stage completely.
And think about this: The Lunarians are highly developed humans. You can see where I am going with this. The Lunarians are the stage between Monster human and Immortal Bishoujo! And that can be seen in their power: The Watatsuki's curbstomped the Touhou gals, and Eirin has been implied to be more powerful than that! They may be powerful though, they aren't completely immortal. Eirin has existed for eons, maybe even millenia! And yet she's till at Lunarian stage. I presume reaching Immortal stage takes loads of magic/PNP. This may also explain why Eirin and the Watasuki's are stronger (in fire power) than Mokou and Kaguya. They have been training and developing for thousands of years, while Kaguya and Mokou skipt it all in favor of immediatly becoming immortal. Kaguya was a young Lunarian, and had thus not much fighting experience, and Mokou was a mere human. Tough they may catch up eventually, this short cut has still stunted their power growth. I presume their is still a true godlike stage beyond immortality.

Regarding Kanako having developed from a normal snake and youkai, I highly doubt that. The youkai develope from magic/PNP, while the gods develope from faith. I assume that gods and youkai are two seperate types of being, who mostly follow the same route, but with different measures. They aparently do share the same starting route, from monster to loli to mature (the serpentine curse gods got owned by our resident frog loli, while she in turn got bested by our local mature snake beauty). I'm not sure if they go monstrous again. The gods look more like they're in control than the youkai. Perhaps, while youkai go the risk that they go feral from overdosing, gods run the risk that man lose faith in them and they dissapear, but they remain mostly calculated throughout. The gods probably go Eldtrich Abomination (faith from a large country) after mature, before going to magnifecent light being (faith from a large number of countries) and finishing at omnipresent entity (faith from all over the world/many worlds).

[OkashiiKisei]

Continuing from last post, since it started to get a bit big :V

This would explain why Minoriko, Aki and Hina are so weak. In the god evolutionairy line, they are still are low level loli goddesses. Tough Suwako is a loli too, she is more powerful because she has a more vital 'position'. She's the Goddess of Earth! Minoriko is a goddess of harvest, Hina of curses and Aki of leaf coloring for fudge's sake. They are obviously far less powerful, being able to be defeated by Team 9. If they managed to develope, they would obtain greater 'titles'. Aki would probably become the Goddess of the Autumn season if she reached mature stage.
This brings an frightening question up: If the Gods become more powerful by faith......how powerful would the Hebrew God be, the God who has THREE religions devoted to Him, and the one God who is believed by many to be actually real! No wonder Kanako and Suwako ran away to Gensokyo....

But we have one goddess who doesn't seem to be bound by faith: (the Magnifecent) Shinki. My guess she's what is at the end of the Bishoujo Line of youkai: A perfect, divine being, who can create it's own worlds! She probably evolved from a bat or something, following the line you described in your post! From this, we can conclude that both gods and youkai have one end goal, the one and the same final stage, a world creating God. They just use different ways to reach the ultimate states. The youkai through the addictive and volatile PNP magic, and the gods through the risky but more controlable faith.
Celestials follow these routes too. Celestials jump all the way to final stage by reaching spiritual enlightment, which isn't an easy task (Tenshi isn't allpowerful because she just hitchhiked with her familiy to Celestialhood, probably limiting her potential power). You can either reach spiritual enlightment through the meditation way, or through a large number of re?ncarnations (remember, they follow buddism in Touhou). It is possible for a spirit/soul to fall out of the re?ncarnation cycle and becoming a ghost, at which point they can either choose the god route or youkai route to reach ascension. Some doujins state Mima as the new goddess of the Hakurei Shrine, so perhaps a spirit who many have faith in might follow the god path. Perhaps all gods are ghost's who took the job of god when people started to pray to higher powers.

From this I can expect that Marisa will undoubtly go for the youkai route, and Reimu upon death for the god route (I think she's enough of a badass to keep on fighting). Sanae is a mixed case. She's a demi god, and her behavior might suggest she could go either way.

[mew77]

Whoah..when I suggested us make the guide book I didn't expect so much..it's beautiful.

However a few points.

We've covered almost everything that I can safely say this is a complete theory.

However your last couple points about gods is a little hard to follow.

I do not feel gods have an evolutionary line. They are created as gods, and their power is either from their inate magic or developed. Actually I always figured AKi was goddess of autumn. The growth of a diety is directly based on faith as you said, hence the plot of MoF. The Moriya shrine was moved to Gensokyo, I believe due to the continuing rise of the hebrew god. As you said, He has three religions dedicated to Him. Simply stated, all the faith in Earth is hoarded by other religions so certian gods had to move to Gensokyo.

I do not see how the evolution of dieties is related to the PNP thory though.

In conclusion, the PNP thoery is complete and we can move on to what I think the discussion has changed to.

Youkai and Diety Evolution

[VIVItheFujoshi]

well. at least i can say what kind of drugs are used in Gensokyo.
-Alcohol. In parties and ceremonies,alcohol is represented for all the sake and other beverages who appear in the Touhou-Land.
-Opium.Is mencioned for ZUN in the CD story of Dolls in Pseudo Paradise, Shanghai Alice of Meiji 17: "Opium smoke lingers over the town in a cloud, packing its way into every nook and cranny. I'm in the foreign concession. The people dance a waltz in clothes of the most brilliant colours. Your magic won't reach me here."
-Magic Mushrooms.all kinds of them. i don?t know where, but in some part say who Marisa have flourishing green mushrooms next to her home.This kind of mushroom really exists.is named tsukiyotake, one of the more poisonous shrooms of Japan...and Marisa likes collect all kind of mushrooms for her experiments,like a good witch who she is o_n...another hints appears in CoLA, where Marisa, when no have something for change to Kourin, give him mushrooms..."At that time, I saw a fairy sitting on some huge mushrooms. This type of mushroom makes people feel more cheerful, so I'll take some to recover fatigue. He?s always being anti-social and listless, so maybe I should give to him as a gift...The forest's mushrooms grow in a blink, and they always grow in different places. They practically pop out of nowhere and vanish just as fast. The forest is growing, and it?s always changing. But there are things that change even faster than the forest. Like humans. It?s really humans that pop out of nowhere and vanish just as fast." (she was in trip? XD)...probably, another magic mushroom, who is poisonous, but when you dried it for some months can be eated (and enjoy the view XD) or dried even more and turn into a inoffensive comestible kinoko: the benintenkudake, Amanita Muscaria. And this mushroom produce synesthesic effects about the size of the eater and the things who observe, are seen more big or little. (sound familiar to something?) and brings sometimes vigor and make laugh...and hallucinations, too XD. For this, the Forest of Magic is called like that!

"Marisa handed out her hat to me, while wiping her body. It was full of mushrooms inside.Are you telling me to eat these suspicious things? Well, if they are yours then I think it?s fine??



and we have Coca-Cola, who contain caffeine;tea, who have a bit of caffeine too;and tobacco, who have nicotine. and maybe chocolate,who have theobromine.

[Recon 5]

I like where this is going, but just keep in mind that with the way the border works, all this theorizing might just eliminate any chance of it actually happening in Gensokyo.

Particularly once it starts to make sense.