Author Topic: Yume Nikki Mafia - Waking 2  (Read 71180 times)

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #270 on: May 19, 2009, 01:34:18 AM »
I'm getting tired of trying to analyze what Pesco was trying to do, and what Roukanken is trying to say (Apparently, I was wrong on that five or so times in a row, which either means I'm doing a very poor job, or Rou is changing his tune with no one noticing.) so I'm going to leave it at this: Why can't it be "Because Rou is voting him"?
Because scum-Rou does not guarantee town-pesco in this scenario, no matter what you think.

Quote from: Zakeri
Since I believe Roukanken to be Scum, Pesco by corollary is Town.
No, no, no, NO! So what you're saying is that a scum vs. scum argument, like the one that happened in Bamboo Forest (which I might add you modded) is impossible? Or for that matter that basic bussing is impossible?

Your reasoning is enough to justify perhaps a scum-Roukanken, but it does not justify a town-pesco to the degree of vehemence that you claim.

On a side note, I dislike the large amount of ties. I do not want 4 people lynched today.
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #271 on: May 19, 2009, 01:37:02 AM »
I was about to say that Zakeri had shown some mild suspicion of Pesco earlier in the day, so the mason pair theory fell through.

Quote
I wanted a Roukanken Lynch more than I wanted Pesco to get lynched, which is why I started off with the assertation that Pesco was town, and then somehow evolved to forcing me to prove it, which is impossible without certain proof.
"Here's the conclusion. What evidence can I find to support it?"
Hypocrisy - you accuse me of twisting facts so Pesco is scum, but you've just admitted to twisting facts so Pesco is Town.

Quote
Why can't it be "Because Rou is voting him"?
Because you're immediately assuming two things: I'm scum, and I'm not bussing.

Quote
Roukanken has gotten this far by pressing Pesco based on a misunderstanding he made that he never gave up, which strikes to me as trying to get a mislynch and possibly save Beilos (whether as scum to to mislynch later).
WHY ARE YOU STILL PRESSING THE 2D6 POINT? I'VE SAID ALREADY THAT THERE ARE SEVERAL STRONGER POINTS I'VE MADE AGAINST PESCO, AND YOU ARE IGNORING THEM ENTIRELY.

Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #272 on: May 19, 2009, 01:53:09 AM »
Quote
You think Rou is scum because he's voting pesco because you think pesco is town and you think pesco is town because rou is voting him because rou is scum.

I ... this is embarrassing that I can't think of a way to refute this.

Quote
No, no, no, NO! So what you're saying is that a scum vs. scum argument, like the one that happened in Bamboo Forest (which I might add you modded) is impossible? Or for that matter that basic bussing is impossible?

I'm definitely certain that this goes way beyond basic bussing. I still think that that this point it's okay to rule out that both sides of the argument were scum because it wound up making such a lasting debate, and Roukanken is still pulling up points long after Pesco had given up.

Quote
"Here's the conclusion. What evidence can I find to support it?"
Hypocrisy - you accuse me of twisting facts so Pesco is scum, but you've just admitted to twisting facts so Pesco is Town.
Okay, it was a mistake to assume Pesco was town because the case on him was bad. I had made the post in light of my analysis from the first four pages, and somehow roped myself into halting my analysis to rescue someone who looked like he was on the business end of a bad lynch.

I agree with Alice that the vote count as it looks like now is bad. Since I only need to see how Pesco and Beilos Flip for what I'm looking into, I'll ##Unvote

Nietz

  • NEETz
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  • Normal Person
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room)
« Reply #273 on: May 19, 2009, 02:00:03 AM »
Vote count:

pesco47 (2): Edible, Kiro, Roukanken, Alice, BaitySM, Roukanken
Roukanken (1): Serpentarius, Kiro, Zakeri.
Alice (0): Carthrat, Zakeri, Affinity
Kanguya Yaraisan (2): UncertainKitten, Affinity, Serpentarius
Serpentarius (1): Mr. Alert, Carthrat, Roukanken
Affinity (0): BaitySM, Serpentarius, Kanguya Yaraisan
Zakeri (0): Alice
UncertainKitten (0): pesco47
BaitySM (4): pesco47, BaitySM, Affinity, UncertainKitten, Zakeri, Kanguya Yaraisan, BaitySM

Not voting: Alice, Zakeri, Mr. Alert.

Presently Set for Lynch:
BaitySM: 4 votes
pesco47 and Kanguya Yaraisan: 2 votes

1 hour remaining.

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #274 on: May 19, 2009, 02:03:57 AM »
Lots of new posts to analyze, but getting my combined thoughts on the early game out there first since we don't have much time.  Skip if you don't want the information and just want the analysis:

---

Alright, analyzing Roukanken's initial accusation of Pesco, here.  Pesco provokes BaitySM into making scummy nonsense posts, and Roukanken votes him for it.  You all know what I say about early votes.  Neither the accusation nor the move that provoked it is scummy, in my opinion.

Roukanken discusses optimal lynching numbers with Carthrat, yet manages to avoid WoT-syndrome, here.  I think he misinterprets Pesco's "I'm sure he knew what he was getting into" as a statement about the self-voting, as opposed to joining a Mafia game in general, though Pesco oddly doesn't clarify very well.

Kanguya does setup speculation and manages not to say anything new here.

Affinity attempts to make sense of Baity's bizarreness here.  I make my prod of Affinity here, and then Pesco and I discussed it immediatley after.  Pesco is posting a lot, and actually addresses Roukanken's points, albeit kind of abrasively.

Kiro helpfully points out that Baity's WIFOM sucks.  Affinity continues to explain why BaitySM's behavior is both scummy and incomprehensible.

Kanguya shows up for an incredibly unhelpful post here.  Gets called out by Pesco and starts humping my leg, following my Affinity vote while seeming to miss that I considered Affinity a scum only if Baity was too.

Pesco makes an alright defense post here, responding to all the points against him, though not really as directly as I'd like.  Also tells KY to do better.

UK then posts a series of half-sentence paragraphs.  Ugh.

Roukanken starts pressing Pesco pretty hard here, then calls everyone else out to make some comments.  I lay down the foundation for 48 hours of defending myself here.  Pesco then starts being inflammatory, but also asks me for clarification regarding my standing aside, gets the response I've been giving you all since then, and accepts it.

Zakeri gives me a vague pass here.  Manages to mix it in with valid points regarding other stuff.  Starts taking his stance against Roukanken here.  KY follows it a few posts later by managing to say the same stuff less usefully.

Alice finally shows up here and notably goes Pro-BaitySM, Pro-Roukanken, anti-Pesco.  Points out that my case on Affinity is weak, followed by Affinity showing up and making some good points and pushing Pesco to stop baiting Roukanken and start scumhunting.  Affinity manages to beat me to voting Kanguya, which I was intending to do even before I saw his post.

Kiro analyzes PvR here and goes so far as to vote against Roukanken.  Pesco shows up immediately after and pointedly ignores Roukanken while responding to everyone else.

Carthrat shows up and makes a case against me here.  I manage to get in and switch my vote to KY, and then respond to Carthrat's accusation.  Carth gives an absolutely lackluster response, but keeps his vote there.  Lots and lots of analysis by Roukanken here, defending his actions pretty well and pointing out some suspicious moves.  He and I start to go off on our takeover of the thread.

KY shows up here and digs himself a hole.

---

Alright, those are the first five pages.  Early game analysis:  In retrospect, I see Zakeri as showing the same scumtells Kanguya does, but being more eloquent about it, which is interesting since he needed to have the fact that that is a scumtell pointed out by me later.

Lack of participation by Edible.  I don't like UK's style either.  Carthrat put a vote on me and then just let it sit there without talking about it.  He's not done much but speculate on the setup and cheerlead whoever voices suspicion of me.  Affinity and Kiro didn't make many posts, but made some good points.  Nothing overtly suspicious from Roukanken and Pesco in the early game.  Mr Alert:  bleh.  BaitySM:  megableh.  His more recent posts muddle things.  Kanguya:  my opinion is unchanged.  Almost forgot to put Alice on this list.  I find his criticism of walls of text amusing.

At the moment I'm still favoring BaitySM and Kanguya for a lynch (after reading his roleclaim: I think Baity is either full of it, or really really deserves to get lynched anyway), though Pesco's continued absence and the way he stopped defending himself after Roukanken and I started going at it doesn't speak in his favor.  I guess I'm feeling that Pesco is getting more scummy every minute he doesn't show up.  The triple lynch mentioned in the most recent count probably isn't going to go through, but if Pesco doesn't show up, it'd be nice if it would.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #275 on: May 19, 2009, 02:06:39 AM »
:/

I'm not liking how we have a tie for second place on 2 votes each. WAY too much of an opening for scum

Basically, we're gonna have to choose between Pesco and KY for second lynch, or somehow raise it to 4/4/4. The latter's never gonna happen, and I'm fine with switching to KY if Town doesn't want to lynch Pesco today. I'll do it closer to deadline so scum can't screw things up.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #276 on: May 19, 2009, 02:11:53 AM »
Votecount is fine as is, I think.  If scum tries to screw with it, they'll either need to last-minute-vote Pesco/Kanako to prevent the lynch of the other, or vote a single person twice.

While I certainly do hope they try, it'll be pretty obvious...

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #277 on: May 19, 2009, 02:12:08 AM »
Basically, we're gonna have to choose between Pesco and KY for second lynch, or somehow raise it to 4/4/4. The latter's never gonna happen, and I'm fine with switching to KY if Town doesn't want to lynch Pesco today. I'll do it closer to deadline so scum can't screw things up.
On the contrary, I want scum to screw things up and very blatantly out themselves in the process.

Would like both KY and pesco to be at 3 votes though, just in case.
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

FinnKaenbyou

  • Formerly Roukanken
  • *
  • blub blub nya
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #278 on: May 19, 2009, 02:13:56 AM »
On the contrary, I want scum to screw things up and very blatantly out themselves in the process.
The problem here arises if either of Pesco of Kanako are scum, since all they have to do is move their vote from Baity to the other one and they survive for a day. Town gains nothing from giving them this opportunity.

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #279 on: May 19, 2009, 02:19:02 AM »
I doubt that'll be an issue.  Both Alice and Zakeri are around and will, assumedly, continue to be around for the next 40 minutes.

Kiro

  • Drinks: Everything
  • Sleeps: Anywhere
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #280 on: May 19, 2009, 02:26:10 AM »
Hrm, the thread's moving pretty fast now.

I had more to say about Rou, but on Baity's roleclaim and Pesco's conspicuous silence, I am re-evaluating Pesco. Knowing that Pesco is rather crafty, I now wouldn't put it past him in figuring out Baity was a Bomb in Baity's very first game post.

Basically  =x

---

I roll a die twice, and get two 3's. That means I choose "6". Of course, to make it fit into the 12 criteria, I've excluded myself from the sample (for now).

##Vote Affinity

Now, why Pesco would out someone he thinks is a suspected Bomb, makes much more sense from a Scum perspective. Because Scum would never be able to NK him. So he needs to get mislynched, otherwise he rides through confirmed the rest of the game and unkillable. Granted, this logic fails if a) Baity is a Scum Bomb or b) Baity's roleclaim is a lie. In either case, Baity would need to be lynched. Given he's revoted himself again, I'd believe Baity's claim. Whether people want to unvote him and spare him because they think he's a Town Bomb over a Scum Bomb is not something I have much control over now.

So yeah, I'll switch things up. I'll reevaluate Roukan tomorrow.

##Unvote Roukanken
##Vote Pesco47

Nietz

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Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room)
« Reply #281 on: May 19, 2009, 02:30:03 AM »
Vote count:

pesco47 (3): Edible, Kiro, Roukanken, Alice,BaitySM, Roukanken, Kiro
Roukanken (0): Serpentarius, Kiro, Zakeri.
Alice (0): Carthrat, Zakeri, Affinity
Kanguya Yaraisan (2): UncertainKitten, Affinity, Serpentarius
Serpentarius (1): Mr. Alert, Carthrat, Roukanken
Affinity (0): BaitySM, Serpentarius, Kanguya Yaraisan
Zakeri (0): Alice
UncertainKitten (0): pesco47
BaitySM (4): pesco47, BaitySM, Affinity, UncertainKitten, Zakeri, Kanguya Yaraisan, BaitySM

Not voting: Alice, Zakeri, Mr. Alert.

Presently Set for Lynch:
BaitySM: 4 votes
pesco47: 3 votes

30 minutes remaining.

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #282 on: May 19, 2009, 02:36:14 AM »
I am fine with lynching KY on top of BaitySM and pesco47: does anyone object to me voting KY?
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #283 on: May 19, 2009, 02:37:59 AM »
Eh, the second five pages are mostly SvR.  My impressions of the other stuff happening:

---

Kanguya jumps on the Baity wagon here.  Points deducted for the fact that he says nothing new.

More analysis by Kiro here.  My response was lackluster, in retrospect.  Hopefully I've explained those points better since then.

UK misuses quote tags, posts some low-content walls of text, and KY compounds the problem by adding his responses in red text inside quote tags.  I just lost my other eye by looking at it again.  Not much substance from UK, but nothing bad either.  Meh, it's activity.  KY begs for a lynch and I'm too preoccupied defending myself to respond to it 'till it gets my attention later.

I finally call on Roukanken to drop the Pesco case [url=https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php?topic=408.msg13338#msg13338]here
due to approaching deadline.  Pesco doesn't help by showing up and firing off a bunch of one-liners at Rou.  I then get around to defending my initial prodding of Affinity.  Pesco pressures UK, but it's lost in everything else happening.

Rou votes me at the top of Page 7.  Zakeri actually questions me below that.  Edible actually posts some good content here.  I start to get a little pissed here and Roukanken and I finally start getting to the underlying issues behind our disagreement.  Kiro (Hey, he did notice that I brushed off that question I mentioned in my last post.  Amusing.) posts good analysis.  Affinity posts good analysis.  Responses by Rou to Kiro and Affinity make him look a bit tunnely.  Baity continues to make a fool of himself.  Pesco and UK's discussion disappears.

Rou and I go back and forth for most of Page 8.  Zakeri goes the whole (9) yards.  (Sorry, you didn't make the pun, so...)  Then we get into the end of day hijinks.

Alright, final verdict:  All things considered, and looking back on it all with an open mind, I still want BaitySM and Kanguya lynched.  Won't object to a Pesco lynch, especially considering his late day absence.

Ninja'd by several people:  BaitySM, Pesco47, and KY should make a fine group of lynches.  Go for it, Alice.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #284 on: May 19, 2009, 02:39:07 AM »
No objection here either.  Can you wait until the last few minutes?

Kanako Yasaka

Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #285 on: May 19, 2009, 02:43:07 AM »
Well I do, but there's nothing I can do to prove my innocence. So uh...yeah.

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #286 on: May 19, 2009, 02:45:20 AM »
So between your last poast and now you did not have enough time to poast anything?

Really. Come the fuck on.
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Nietz

  • NEETz
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  • Normal Person
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #287 on: May 19, 2009, 02:45:36 AM »
15 minutes remaining.

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #288 on: May 19, 2009, 02:46:31 AM »
At minimum, could you please roleclaim?
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Kanako Yasaka

Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #289 on: May 19, 2009, 02:47:51 AM »
So between your last poast and now you did not have enough time to poast anything?

Really. Come the fuck on.
Well I did but I had nothing of use to contribute that hadn't been stated already.

Cut by Alice: Monoko, vanilla townie.

Nietz

  • NEETz
  • *
  • Normal Person
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #290 on: May 19, 2009, 02:50:36 AM »
10 minutes remaining.

Affinity

  • hoho
  • ... but I have promises to keep.
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #291 on: May 19, 2009, 02:51:02 AM »
Just dropping in quickly between classes to say that I'm fine with Alice voting KY.  Rou's and Serp's defences, on first glance, look good, while Kiro's sudden switch seems very forced, but I'll evaluate them tomorrow.  Lastly, I'm okay with the triptych of lynches today... though I didn't give too much thought into pesco, his play has been slightly.... weirdening as of late.

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #292 on: May 19, 2009, 02:52:37 AM »
Kiro's switch does seem very forced to me for some reason, and there's something slightly worrying me about Edible. Will need to evaluate both of these people in detail tomorrow.
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Carthrat

  • HITLER OF LURKERS
  • MEIN MAIDENKAMPF
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #293 on: May 19, 2009, 02:54:31 AM »
Fuck me, I'm late for deadline. Um. Shit.

No time for a long post. Does anyone live? I'd rather see KY lynched than pesco, myself. Fine with baity. Not thrilled about lynching pesco at this point.

Nietz

  • NEETz
  • *
  • Normal Person
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #294 on: May 19, 2009, 02:55:05 AM »
5 minutes remaining.

?lice Bl?ckb?rn

  • The real Alice Blackbarn!
  • *
  • "OH DESIRE"
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #295 on: May 19, 2009, 02:55:52 AM »
##Vote: Kanako Yasaka or however you type his name.
"Oh, great. Another game where I get screwed by Kilga." ~ Carthrat

Serp

  • It's all about overwhelming force and irresistible style
  • And in a pinch, style can slide
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #296 on: May 19, 2009, 02:55:59 AM »
We've got the plan set, Carthrat.  Please don't change your vote from me.
[15:13] <Sana> >:<

Carthrat

  • HITLER OF LURKERS
  • MEIN MAIDENKAMPF
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #297 on: May 19, 2009, 02:57:21 AM »
There's a plan to triplynch, then?

Edible

  • One part the F?hrer, one part the Pope
  • *
  • It's the inevitable return, baby
Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #298 on: May 19, 2009, 02:58:22 AM »
Indeed.  *pokes Nietz for confirmation that we'll be lynching pesco, KY, and Baity*

Re: Yume Nikki Mafia - Dream 1 (The Guillotine Room) [Replacement Needed]
« Reply #299 on: May 19, 2009, 02:59:11 AM »
yep. that's the plan.