Author Topic: Touhou RAGE Thread (Read 176784 times)

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #150 on:** May 04, 2009, 07:05:06 AM »

ZUN is notorious for never fixing his games once they are released. >_>

Vile Lasagna · « **Reply #151 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:00:57 AM »

Regarding MoF Marisa B I can only think of:
1 - It's a REALLY weird and hardcoded bug that would require ZUN to distribute fully recompiled exectuables and he is for some reason reluctant to do so
2 - I made a thread about this one...

Naut · « **Reply #152 on:** May 04, 2009, 08:55:47 PM »

Quote from: Kefit on May 04, 2009, 05:38:57 AM

Donut, you may have some highly pure view of how these games should be played, but that doesn't mean that your views are line with the greater community standards of what is and isn't acceptable in these games.

Not to be an ass, but were you not telling me how to play these games just a few posts prior...?

...

I find using the Malice cannon makes things harder anyway, with the constantly varying speed, I dunno why people would want to use it on any spellcard you move alot in. Not game breaking, but I think it's a bug none-the-less, though nothing to really care about. I mean, if the card's easy enough that you can stand in nearly one spot and smash shift furiously, then it's probably too boring to be worth the time you would've spent on it without the extra power.

bjw · « **Reply #153 on:** May 04, 2009, 09:51:20 PM »

SP · « **Reply #154 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:19:12 PM »

Timing out Phantom of the Grand Guignol is Danmaku Bounded Field all over again, this time with about 6x the memorization per wave (and more waves) $:-\$

Azinth · « **Reply #155 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:40:23 PM »

Quote from: SP

Timing out Last Words

As the person who succesfully 1cc'ed Shuusou Gyoku on Lunatic, I must say: Are you some kind of fucking masochist, what the hell is wrong with you?

Keep fighting, you brave, brave soul.

Generalguy · « **Reply #156 on:** May 04, 2009, 10:49:44 PM »

I'm pissed off at Mountain of Faith (the spellcard) for some reason. I know it's design on easy makes it harder than the normal version, but damn, the bullets are so slow I can't help but feel like I can capture it.

I tried figuring out a pattern, or at least know what the next wave will be like, but those single amulets always block the view so often I'll only notice the waves just before I graze them. And their colors give me a headache. Blue over red is so annoying.

As for the run itself, I died on stage 2 while testing the scoring system by a bullet I never saw, because I lost track of like half the screen.

But I got two lives at the same time in stage 3 and it sounded pretty cool.

theshirn · « **Reply #157 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:08:47 AM »

Quote from: bjw on May 04, 2009, 09:51:20 PM

CREEPY CREEPY YUKKURIS

Fix'd.

No, seriously, am I the only one that's just entirely creeped out by those...things?

Also: Damnit!

Kefit, donut, Azinth, SOMEBODY, is there any trick at all to VoWG to avoid getting consistently walled by the blue/green wave, or am I just horribly unlucky? Because she KEEPS DOING IT AND IT'S PISSING ME OFF.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #158 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:18:00 AM »

I hate yukkuris more than you know.

Ahem...VoWG has this thing. Once the attack goes into hyper mode (you know when), it will send walls at you that will be virtually impossible to dodge. You have to learn to predict these walls, and move out of the way. Ideally, you'll eventually learn to read the pattern and figure out when one of these is coming, and optimally you will eventually be able to see the individual bullet walls and find the opening then. One thing that you have to learn though is that you will need to move a considerable distance to avoid these walls when they happen.

Vile Lasagna · « **Reply #159 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:20:12 AM »

Quote from: nintendonut888 on May 05, 2009, 12:18:00 AM

I hate yukkuris more than you know.

They're the doom of all that lives u.u

Except the Utsuho one with the three spinning legs... That one is simply brilliant (but still disturbing, regardless)

Azinth · « **Reply #160 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:22:24 AM »

There are no walls in VoWG. There are only gaps that are very small and take a lot of skill/experience to find. The dark/light blue waves are the most randomly placed, and they are the most likely to kill you. Stay slightly high up in the screen to give yourself room to move down, which will give you more time to read the bullets. Whenever you see those dark/light blue waves coming, get looking for some openings, because you are gonna need them. Not much more advice for it, other than practice more.

Then again, I just captured the card yesterday, so maybe I shouldn't be talking... >_>

?lice Bl?ckb?rn · « **Reply #161 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:25:29 AM »

Quote from: theshim on May 05, 2009, 12:08:47 AM

Kefit, donut, Azinth, SOMEBODY, is there any trick at all to VoWG to avoid getting consistently walled by the blue/green wave, or am I just horribly unlucky? Because she KEEPS DOING IT AND IT'S PISSING ME OFF.

There always will be a gap around for the green/blue wave, however the window is fairly short when it's fairly clear. You will need to move up and to the side to avoid some of these waves. Sometimes you will be forced to dodge at the side for a couple seconds, don't worry about this.

There really is only one way to learn VoWG and that's to run it something like ~80 times anyway. Time it out if you fail capping it, that way you get to face it longer without having to re-run the stage if you fail it (and you'll figure out the pattern quicker as a result)

bjw · « **Reply #162 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:32:15 AM »

Quote from: theshim on May 05, 2009, 12:08:47 AM

Kefit, donut, Azinth, SOMEBODY, is there any trick at all to VoWG to avoid getting consistently walled by the blue/green wave, or am I just horribly unlucky? Because she KEEPS DOING IT AND IT'S PISSING ME OFF.

Most of the time, you will get "walled off" if you stick to the center. If you are too scared to micrododge the clusters, then you will need to navigate around the screen every now and then, searching for an opening within the separate clusters. When it comes to VoWG, I find it easiest to capture when micrododging clusters; that is, fitting through the wider shots so I can always keep myself under Kanako, thus, always dealing damage. When timing the card out, that's when I fly around the screen having a field day.

My first capture of the card really came down to becoming comfortable with reading and anticipating the wider shots so I could dodge them by fitting between the amulets. VoWG definitely becomes a lot easier once you get this down; when I was shooting for a perfect Stage 6 run back in January, I was averaging something like 1/3 against VoWG (with the occasional 1/15 WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON). Source of Rains on the other hand was on a totally different level of frustration and clipdeath rage >_>

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #163 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:36:56 AM »

Which is funny, because Source of Rains isn't that bad for me. >_>

?lice Bl?ckb?rn · « **Reply #164 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:45:01 AM »

Oh, speaking of 1/15 WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON, that reminds me of last night where I ran MoF stage 6 about 20 times and what started out as a couple VoWG captures and 3/4-death timeouts turned into, well... the last four runs of the stage all had me go into VoWG with at least 7 lives and all either gameover'd or I had a single life remaining at the end of it. Blah.

Also, Source of Rains is godawful. Stupid MoF hitboxes can go die, clipdeaths can go die and that card can basically go die.

bjw · « **Reply #165 on:** May 05, 2009, 12:56:12 AM »

Quote from: nintendonut888 on May 05, 2009, 12:36:56 AM

Which is funny, because Source of Rains isn't that bad for me. >_>

I'd much rather be consistent with VoWG than Source of Rains, derp de derp derp.

Quote from: Alice Margatroid on May 05, 2009, 12:45:01 AM

Oh, speaking of 1/15 WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON, that reminds me of last night where I ran MoF stage 6 about 20 times and what started out as a couple VoWG captures and 3/4-death timeouts turned into, well... the last four runs of the stage all had me go into VoWG with at least 7 lives and all either gameover'd or I had a single life remaining at the end of it. Blah.

Yeah, I've had that happen to me countless times. I'm guessing VoWG has a few patterns setup and just randomly pulls one for you to face against over the entirety of the card's duration, one of which is a lot more difficult than the rest. Having it constantly repeat ends in BAWWWWW. Of course, this is just a guess as to how the card works.

Quote from: Alice Margatroid on May 05, 2009, 12:45:01 AM

Also, Source of Rains is godawful. Stupid MoF hitboxes can go die, clipdeaths can go die and that card can basically go die.

This pretty much sums up my feelings with Source of Rains.

Generalguy · « **Reply #166 on:** May 05, 2009, 01:05:27 AM »

I said some time ago it's really hard to do anything in IaMP on a keyboard and that I wouldn't play this way again.

Well, that was BEFORE I noticed the d-pad on my controller is a TOTAL PIECE OF *****. Want to do a 6B? Too bad, you did a 236B. Again? Here's a 623B. Want to do a 623B? No, you JUMP.

Not to mention Story Mode is complete bullshit. Don't get knocked down, because they'll throw an unblockable AND ungrazable attack at you. And half the bullets can't be blocked, so you have to graze your way through all that crap, while backdashes (airborne or not) are completely useless because they graze for like two frames. They also have armor, so all I ever manage to do is throw lots of bullets and hope they get hit.

The only fun I'm having in that game for now is watching replays.

theshirn · « **Reply #167 on:** May 05, 2009, 01:28:31 AM »

Quote from: Generalguy on May 05, 2009, 01:05:27 AM

I said some time ago it's really hard to do anything in IaMP on a keyboard and that I wouldn't play this way again.

Well, that was BEFORE I noticed the d-pad on my controller is a TOTAL PIECE OF *****. Want to do a 6B? Too bad, you did a 236B. Again? Here's a 623B. Want to do a 623B? No, you JUMP.

Not to mention Story Mode is complete bullshit. Don't get knocked down, because they'll throw an unblockable AND ungrazable attack at you. And half the bullets can't be blocked, so you have to graze your way through all that crap, while backdashes (airborne or not) are completely useless because they graze for like two frames. They also have armor, so all I ever manage to do is throw lots of bullets and hope they get hit.

The only fun I'm having in that game for now is watching replays.

The only thing that well and truly pisses me off about IaMP is Yukari's second-to-last card. "Infinite Speed Flying Object." A completely and utterly STUPID, unblockable, ungrazable attack that kills you in half a dozen hits and can wall you? What's not to RAEG?

Also, funny how I've captured Source of Rains a good four or five times now, and short of the reds or purples walling me I can usually do it on purpose, but VoWG still pounds my face into the ground...

Kefit · « **Reply #168 on:** May 05, 2009, 04:25:32 AM »

Source of Rains is the worst part of the stage. It's not hard or anything, just really annoying and boring and stupid and what the fuck was ZUN thinking.

Anyway, there are always gaps in VoWG. The trick is to play it a million times so that you recognize every pattern that appears in it, read these patterns while they are bunched up near Kanako, and react appropriately to move into the gaps. These gaps are sometimes very small or very short lived.

For example, 4:26 in this video is an example of a very small gap (it's still larger than trying to micrododge between the individual cards in a given wall). 4:38 is an example of a very short lived gap - the space I dash through is only open for a split second. A similar pattern occurs at 4:48.

Despite these gaps looking very difficult to get into, they really aren't once you can see them coming and have some practice with them. Again, that just takes practicing the card a million times, so that you can familiarize yourself with the finite number of patterns the overlapping card walls can make.

LHCling · « **Reply #169 on:** May 05, 2009, 07:34:50 AM »

...does VoWG get harder as Kanako's HP go down? Or countdowns?

I can survive until what, Kanako's on about ¹/₄~¹/₃ health. Then I waste 1, 2, 3, 4... yeah, you get it (all clipdeaths, even at fullscreen).

Maybe trying to rush a VoWG Lunatic capture isn't such a great idea >_>

Might try another full pacifist SA Stage run.

Kefit · « **Reply #170 on:** May 05, 2009, 07:45:21 AM »

VoWG Lunatic starts out fairly easy. About 20 seconds in it throws in an additional wave that layers on top of every second or third wave sent out. This is when things get really hairy on Lunatic. At this point the difficulty remains consistent, getting no harder or easier before the card ends or the timer runs out.

The addition of the layered wave always happens at ~20 seconds into the card, regardless of whether or not you have been damaging Kanako.

theshirn · « **Reply #171 on:** May 05, 2009, 08:06:00 AM »

Quote from: BaitySM on May 05, 2009, 07:34:50 AM

Maybe trying to rush a VoWG Lunatic capture isn't such a great idea >_>

Oh, come now. I'll race you! I've got a bit of a lead (in that I've epically failed it 40 times already) but a) I have no time the next two days and b) I suspect that you are better at Touhou than I am.

It'll be fun!

LHCling · « **Reply #172 on:** May 05, 2009, 08:49:04 AM »

I seem to be getting used to it. (hope it doesn't desync or some crap like that)

Now to look at the pattern(s) in more detail.

Edit: it's great that I've captured everything else. The last two spell cards (apart from VoWG) are at ⁴/₁₃and ³/₁₃

Edit 2: alright, 20 attempts for today. I'm losing focus.

Naut · « **Reply #173 on:** May 05, 2009, 04:44:01 PM »

Quote from: Kefit on May 05, 2009, 07:45:21 AM

VoWG Lunatic starts out fairly easy. About 20 seconds in it throws in an additional wave that layers on top of every second or third wave sent out. This is when things get really hairy on Lunatic. At this point the difficulty remains consistent, getting no harder or easier before the card ends or the timer runs out.

The addition of the layered wave always happens at ~20 seconds into the card, regardless of whether or not you have been damaging Kanako.

The layered wave isn't additional or different from the first part, the delay between the two versions of each volley is just decreased, making it overlap a little more than it did beforehand.

SP · « **Reply #174 on:** May 05, 2009, 05:04:21 PM »

So far I can only get to 39 seconds on Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana. At around that time the waves mesh together making it almost impossible to even try to dodge $:-\$ I tried to look up the other guy's run and looks like it's been deleted on nico, and I'm fairly lost unless it really does require some crazy mid-wave jumps

Generalguy · « **Reply #175 on:** May 05, 2009, 05:17:12 PM »

I decided to see if you are invincible while Yuyuko explodes on PCB. Doesn't seem so, and it made pretty colors everywhere.

I would have captured her last spellcard (on easy) if I hadn't acted like an idiot at the beginning and tried to go over those lines of butterflies.

But what annoys me is that it was a very good run (1 death) until stage 6. I had to pause the game on stage 6, and when I came back the game was lagging all the time, and there's a 99% chance it was caused by AVG. I mean, I played like twice in the past week, why do you have to update NOW!?

The title screen then ran at 20 FPS, somehow lagging even more than the game itself.

Schpwuette · « **Reply #176 on:** May 05, 2009, 05:42:09 PM »

What the hell. MS Normal, Shinki... she shoots weird fat yellow lines at you, and they are IMPOSSIBLE to dodge. I can dodge one, then another, but then there's one going horizontal so I move up, but suddenly there's one in my face and if I'm REALLY lucky I can move out of its way only to get hit by another one from the side. Geez.
There's gotta be a way to manage them so they're not so bullshitty...

Vile Lasagna · « **Reply #177 on:** May 05, 2009, 06:22:13 PM »

Quote from: Generalguy on May 05, 2009, 05:17:12 PM

there's a 99% chance it was caused by AVG.

The title screen then ran at 20 FPS, somehow lagging even more than the game itself.

And that's why all the cool kids use Avast!... oh wait, it's also way better and gives you update notices at all the best times.

Zengeku · « **Reply #178 on:** May 05, 2009, 08:36:08 PM »

Hmm... i died three times to Hells Artificial Sun. Goddammit i hate that spellcard! ON ALL DIFFICULTIES!

Azinth · « **Reply #179 on:** May 05, 2009, 09:26:05 PM »

Urk. Resurrection Butterfly. I suck at it. Even if it's not the hardest of the mammoth spell cards to capture, it's sure one of the most frustrating. One little wrong movement at any moment for 70 seconds, and you lose.

I had a particularly painful run just now where I died to the very first red wave and then magically managed to dodge all of the others. Is there some kind of method to those red waves other than just dodging and praying? I've tried dodging the waves higher up in the screen, and it...kinda works, but not consistently enough.