Author Topic: Spellcard Help Topic (Read 145724 times)

Zengeku · « **Reply #240 on:** August 16, 2009, 07:21:33 PM »

Quote from: Drayen on August 16, 2009, 03:56:42 PM

So.. whats the trick with the giant green laser spellcards on ufo stage5? theyre kicking my ass.

What difficulty are you talking about?

OT: How are you supposed to beat Unidentified "Red UFO Invasion of Rage"? Its raping me. Using SanaeA btw.

Sapz · « **Reply #241 on:** August 16, 2009, 07:52:34 PM »

Quote from: Zengeku on August 16, 2009, 07:21:33 PM

OT: How are you supposed to beat Unidentified "Red UFO Invasion of Rage"? Its raping me. Using SanaeA btw.

I find the best way of beating it is to try and blow up at least one of the UFOs, and then go through that gap and head to around the middle as fast as possible before the bullets speed up. Having said that, I haven't tried it with SanaeA, and also it's not like I have a consistent cap rate for that card, so there might be a better way I haven't noticed.

EDIT: Also, has anyone found a good way of beating Blue UFO Invasion of Grief or Undefined Darkness? I have no clue about any way of beating these that doesn't involve excessive bombing and/or dying. <_<

Krimmydoodle · « **Reply #242 on:** August 16, 2009, 09:05:11 PM »

You can check bjw's video for methods on how to deal with the red UFO and blue UFO cards.

His red card method is taken from me, starting from one side to misdirect the red bullets. Which direction you start from is dependent on which direction the UFOs are rotating. Start from the right if they're going clockwise, start from the left if they're going counterclockwise.

For the blue card, it's apparently a matter of knowing which UFOs to destroy. He uses Reimu A in this video though, and this exact method may or may not work for weaker shot types.

?q · « **Reply #243 on:** August 16, 2009, 10:13:20 PM »

If you're using a weaker shot type on Blue UFOs, you need to pay attention to the angles at which the UFOs fire their lasers (the angles circle around the UFOs) and get out of the way. I distinctly remember making a dash to the right sometime around when the above vid of it captured the card.

Quote

[Nue's] noncards are a bit more difficult than the average noncards you find in other Extras,

For the half of the stage that I've played, I didn't think they were that bad at all compared to Suwako's lightspeedmaku and Koishi's walls.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #244 on:** August 16, 2009, 10:17:21 PM »

Is there a strategy for Kogasa's third spell card that I'm not seeing? The trains seems to wall me every time. Can someone give the lowdown on this card?

LHCling · « **Reply #245 on:** August 16, 2009, 10:19:46 PM »

...third? Oh, excluding midboss.

Start right, stream left. When the two trains come up simultaneously, move up/down (as required), then stream right. Repeat.*

*_{Trial Knowledge}

Bananamatic · « **Reply #246 on:** August 17, 2009, 12:58:11 AM »

I'll dump a long list here(all on normal):
MoF:
Sacrifice Sign "Misayama Hunting Shrine Ritual" - the knives catch me too often, usually 2 bombs here.
Heaven's Stream "Miracle of Otensui" - Tried streaming to the side, but it is usually way too dense to pass through.

SA:
Recollection "Double Black Death Butterfly" - Almost as bad as Yukari's. Any trick, or is it pure dodging?
Recollection "Flying Insect's Nest" - I get trapped here way too often, either between the lasers on the sides or by the butterflies.

Cat's Walk - I simply can't dodge it.
Cursed Sprite "Zombie Fairy" - Stay at the bottom and micrododge or fly around her?
Malicious Spirit "Spleen Eater" - Somehow captured it once, but I usually bomb here 2 times since it traps me all the time.
Atonement "Needle Mountain of a Former Hell" - Can't see where these rings even drop, so usually either a ring hits me or I don't pay enough attention to the bullet walls.
"Rekindling of Dead Ashes" - Once again, simply fly around or is there some uber tactic?

Funnily enough, I can beat Utsuho with 1 life loss and captured 3 of her cards on my last practice attempt.

RainfallYoshi · « **Reply #247 on:** August 17, 2009, 02:01:41 AM »

EX-Kogasa isn't as bad as I imagined she would be. 1st card is just simple horizontal dodging, 2nd card is somewhat chaotic vertical dodging that sometimes makes me bomb. 3rd card is a mind and eye rape, but it actually isn't too hard as long as you stay focused. Wheel of ~~Fortune~~ MIND WARP.

The issues I'm having are mostly with the stage itself. I've gotten to Nue once and got pwned on her Red UFO card of doom.

?q · « **Reply #248 on:** August 17, 2009, 02:11:13 AM »

Quote from: Bananamatic on August 17, 2009, 12:58:11 AM

I'll dump a long list here(all on normal):
MoF:
Sacrifice Sign "Misayama Hunting Shrine Ritual" - the knives catch me too often, usually 2 bombs here.
Bomb this terribly made spell card with no regrets.

Heaven's Stream "Miracle of Otensui" - Tried streaming to the side, but it is usually way too dense to pass through.
Bomb this terribly made spell card with no regrets.
Otherwise, the standard tactic is to stream toward the center of the screen, then charge for the top corner of the open area for maximum bullet misdirection, and repeat.

SA:
Recollection "Double Black Death Butterfly" - Almost as bad as Yukari's. Any trick, or is it pure dodging?
It's worse than Yukari's. Watch the colors->directions and prepare accordingly.

Recollection "Flying Insect's Nest" - I get trapped here way too often, either between the lasers on the sides or by the butterflies.
You have to stream the butterflies, which are aimed at the moment you hear the chime as they hit the wall (so you know when to start paying attention). Don't forget that you can move slightly up or down.

Cat's Walk - I simply can't dodge it.
Pray and/or bomb.

Cursed Sprite "Zombie Fairy" - Stay at the bottom and micrododge or fly around her?
Fly around Orin enough to keep the fairies away. Bomb it if you want it to go faster, but make sure the zombie fairies are not at bottom center when you do so.

Malicious Spirit "Spleen Eater" - Somehow captured it once, but I usually bomb here 2 times since it traps me all the time.
Don't dodge it at the bottom of the screen, and force yourself to keep near the center of the screen. Don't run into the familiars if you can help it - sometimes you'll destroy them before you collide with them; other times...

Atonement "Needle Mountain of a Former Hell" - Can't see where these rings even drop, so usually either a ring hits me or I don't pay enough attention to the bullet walls.
When you hear the GOAST WEELS being fired, move out of the way. Take a brief look up to get the general idea of where they're going.

"Rekindling of Dead Ashes" - Once again, simply fly around or is there some uber tactic?
I don't think anyone actually knows how this spell works. But the more damage you can inflict before the zombie fairies kick in, the better. I personally recommend flying around Orin until the zombie fairies get out of the way, but that seems to trigger explosions of red bullets for you to dodge.

Funnily enough, I can beat Utsuho with 1 life loss and captured 3 of her cards on my last practice attempt.

Concise help edited in.

Drayen · « **Reply #249 on:** August 17, 2009, 05:24:44 AM »

Quote from: Zengeku on August 16, 2009, 07:21:33 PM

Quote from: Drayen on August 16, 2009, 03:56:42 PM
So.. whats the trick with the giant green laser spellcards on ufo stage5? theyre kicking my ass.

What difficulty are you talking about?

OT: How are you supposed to beat Unidentified "Red UFO Invasion of Rage"? Its raping me. Using SanaeA btw.

im playing normal, but i think itd apply to all other difficulties, i dont know how to place the green lasers properly so its easier to dodge.

Azinth · « **Reply #250 on:** August 17, 2009, 05:30:11 AM »

Quote from: Drayen on August 17, 2009, 05:24:44 AM

im playing normal, but i think itd apply to all other difficulties, i dont know how to place the green lasers properly so its easier to dodge.

The lasers' placement seems to be based on your position; she summons a spell circle on top of you every once in a while and the lasers home in on that location. I think it's just a matter of staying as close to Shou as possible so they stay near the center of the screen. If the lasers end up moving to a far side or a corner then you're basically fucked, there's no way to keep up with them.

?q · « **Reply #251 on:** August 17, 2009, 11:47:45 AM »

I think Azinth is correct. The center of the "bars" will move to spell circles placed on at your current position, and they don't swing so quickly around the screen if you're close to the center (where Shou is). Naturally, Shou is shooting bullets so getting close is moderately suicidal.

Now consider that you have to pause your circling around to damage the boss. (I thought it was a timeout card the first time I played it.) It's easily the worst spell card in the game, so circle Shou a few times and then bomb it.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #252 on:** August 18, 2009, 05:39:05 AM »

NUE'S SECOND SPELL CARD. HOW? I'd rather not spend two bombs beating this every time I face it. I seriously cannot even fathom how you're supposed to do this. Even at max power Reimu A can only destroy one or two UFOs before they come and rape her.

Krimmydoodle · « **Reply #253 on:** August 18, 2009, 06:56:12 AM »

Quote from: nintendonut888 on August 18, 2009, 05:39:05 AM

NUE'S SECOND SPELL CARD. HOW? I'd rather not spend two bombs beating this every time I face it. I seriously cannot even fathom how you're supposed to do this. Even at max power Reimu A can only destroy one or two UFOs before they come and rape her.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDmNnfx7H4Y#t=4m40s

bjw demonstrates it pretty well. Simple misdirection. Start on one side (right if they're circling clockwise, or left if they're circling counterclockwise), then, after the UFOs have passed and their bullets have been aimed to the side, swing around to the bottom center to deal damage.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #254 on:** August 18, 2009, 08:38:41 AM »

See, you'd think that video'd help...but it somehow doesn't at all. Let's be calm (GOD FUCKING DAMN IT THE REST OF NUE IS SO EASY BUT I CAN'T GET ANYWHERE BECAUSE OF THIS PoS SPELL CA-Ahem) and ask for some elaboration:

Where (please don't say "watch the video") should I be to misdirect the bullets best?

Do the UFOs always spin the same direction on the same wave (as in, do they always spin clockwise on the first wave, or is it random?)

Most importantly: How EXACTLY do you know when to move out of the misdirecting spot and start avoiding the UFOs that WALL YOU WITH NO CHANCE OF ESCAPE MOTHERFUCKER?

And also: Is Kogasa's first spell card as hard for everyone else?

I get walled constantly by these bullets (they had such a nice and forgiving hitbox in IN, why did they have to change?)

bjw · « **Reply #255 on:** August 18, 2009, 08:49:19 AM »

Quote from: nintendonut888 on August 18, 2009, 08:38:41 AM

Where (please don't say "watch the video") should I be to misdirect the bullets best?

Do the UFOs always spin the same direction on the same wave (as in, do they always spin clockwise on the first wave, or is it random?)

Watch the video. Even better, copy it.

The card is static. The first wave will always be clockwise, so start on the right end of the screen. The second wave will be counterclockwise, so stick to the left. This pattern will constantly rotate. Why not be on the left when it's going clockwise? UFOs will charge into you. Same goes for why you shouldn't be on the right side when they go counterclockwise. Where should you be located when misdirecting bullets? Uh, well, anywhere other than the middle would be a good idea. If the middle isn't safe, then it would be tough to deal damage.

Quote from: nintendonut888 on August 18, 2009, 08:38:41 AM

Most importantly: How EXACTLY do you know when to move out of the misdirecting spot and start avoiding the UFOs that WALL YOU WITH NO CHANCE OF ESCAPE MOTHERFUCKER?

You get a general feel for it over time, but uh, I like to move towards the middle once two specific UFOs allow me to do so. Which UFOs am I talking about? Look at the pattern carefully, and note when the UFOs begin to diverge and make their way off the screen. One will completely miss you, and the other will curbstomp you. Move in rhythm with these two, staying between them, and once you get to the center, you're home free.

Quote from: nintendonut888 on August 18, 2009, 08:38:41 AM

And also: Is Kogasa's first spell card as hard for everyone else? I get walled constantly by these bullets (they had such a nice and forgiving hitbox in IN, why did they have to change?)

Don't underestimate it? And use vertical movement to get above the slow bullets from previous waves. Last thing you want is a bunch of slow bullets trapping you between faster bullets.

Sapz · « **Reply #256 on:** August 18, 2009, 11:09:32 AM »

Quote from: Drayen on August 17, 2009, 05:24:44 AM

Quote from: Zengeku on August 16, 2009, 07:21:33 PM
Quote from: Drayen on August 16, 2009, 03:56:42 PM
So.. whats the trick with the giant green laser spellcards on ufo stage5? theyre kicking my ass.

What difficulty are you talking about?

OT: How are you supposed to beat Unidentified "Red UFO Invasion of Rage"? Its raping me. Using SanaeA btw.

im playing normal, but i think itd apply to all other difficulties, i dont know how to place the green lasers properly so its easier to dodge.

I find it's best to not consciously try to place the lasers; rather, just try and stay at the bottom of the screen for as long as humanly possible and fly around the top half as quickly as you can, and the lasers tend to re-arrange themselves in vaguely helpful positions without you having to spend too much effort worrying about them.

A replay with a Normal green laser card capture. Hope it helps.

Zengeku · « **Reply #257 on:** August 18, 2009, 07:12:17 PM »

I'm going to have to take a look at bjw's strategy. I don't know if it will work with SanaeA but then i'll just have to unlock extra with MarisaA or ReimuA. That shouldn't be a problem

@Drayen:

Are you playing on Normal? Well, as far as i know there isn't any trick to the green lasers. Its pretty bad. Its one of those things that just keep preventing me from getting a perfect Syou battle.

A: Circle around as fast as you can while keeping an eye on the bullet Syou fires at you.

B: Make Baity figure something out.

Flay_wind · « **Reply #258 on:** August 18, 2009, 07:57:08 PM »

Need help with Captain of Phail Boat a.k.a. Minamitsu Murasa's survival card. Tried many different ways and always ended up clusterfucked. -_-

Zengeku · « **Reply #259 on:** August 18, 2009, 08:40:21 PM »

Quote from: Flay_wind on August 18, 2009, 07:57:08 PM

Need help with Captain of Phail Boat a.k.a. Minamitsu Murasa's survival card. Tried many different ways and always ended up clusterfucked. -_-

Stay close to the edges of the screen and circle around. Its really quite simple up until the final few seconds.

OT: Okay. I've got the red UFO thing down. Plain and simple and it works with SanaeA even though she doesn't destroy the UFO's as easily as ReimuA does.

Now i'll need to figure out how to do the blue UFO one with SanaeA. I made it up to her final spellcard with SanaeA and i'll beat it with her.

Oh and i captured Nue's survival card first try! Now it'll be exciting to try and see if i can do that again.

Bananamatic · « **Reply #260 on:** August 18, 2009, 10:17:08 PM »

Managed both MoF and SA 1cc now, and trying to beat Koishi(beat Suwako already)....
....and she's hard. It's hard enough to reach her...

No real problems at the stage(except for the green crap after Sanae) but Sanae herself is hard enough....

First spell is ok, second is a bit harder - what is the general strategy to use there? I can capture it, but not consistently.

The third one makes me lose even 2 lives at times - from what I've noticed myself and from replays, stay in the middle and move once she aims the shot at you, but I keep getting hit since I'm afraid of the random stray bullets that might hit me.

For Koishi herself, I can capture the first one, but I usually mess up since I either don't move away from the side fast enough and the laser hits me from behind, or I move back too early and I can't get to the middle, that's just a timing issue I guess....

And for Danmaku Paranoia, how small is the space I'm allowed to move in? I'm not brave enough to test it myself >.>

EDIT: made some progress, got from Danmaku Paranoia to Genetics of the Subconscious, which I suppose is a huge jump in one attempt....

For some reason, I was able to understand the heart danmaku cards rather fast and got past both with 1 bomb and the phallic card wasn't too hard either, but Youkai Polygraph.....no idea how to get past that.

Had 35 seconds left on Genetics since I wasn't hitting her at all.....

Azinth · « **Reply #261 on:** August 18, 2009, 11:08:52 PM »

Just two things:

Forgive me if I'm out of date, but has anyone found a way to make Kogasa's first boss card on lunatic somewhat manageable? Like, is there a way to not get walled five seconds in or just tips to surviving it in general. (not that it really matters I guess... I'm definitely bombing this in a real game run)

And for Ichirin's final spell, is it better to stay at the bottom and go up to avoid the fists or stay up and drop down? Or is there a better way?

I've yet to get past stage 5 yet, so I figured I might as well learn to not fail at 2-4 before trying to jump too far in. I'm not really in the mood for another continue-spamfest right now anyway.

Seiryuu · « **Reply #262 on:** August 19, 2009, 12:30:47 AM »

Quote from: Bananamatic on August 18, 2009, 10:17:08 PM

Managed both MoF and SA 1cc now, and trying to beat Koishi(beat Suwako already)....
....and she's hard. It's hard enough to reach her...

No real problems at the stage(except for the green crap after Sanae) but Sanae herself is hard enough....

First spell is ok, second is a bit harder - what is the general strategy to use there? I can capture it, but not consistently.

The third one makes me lose even 2 lives at times - from what I've noticed myself and from replays, stay in the middle and move once she aims the shot at you, but I keep getting hit since I'm afraid of the random stray bullets that might hit me.

For Koishi herself, I can capture the first one, but I usually mess up since I either don't move away from the side fast enough and the laser hits me from behind, or I move back too early and I can't get to the middle, that's just a timing issue I guess....

And for Danmaku Paranoia, how small is the space I'm allowed to move in? I'm not brave enough to test it myself >.>

EDIT: made some progress, got from Danmaku Paranoia to Genetics of the Subconscious, which I suppose is a huge jump in one attempt....

For some reason, I was able to understand the heart danmaku cards rather fast and got past both with 1 bomb and the phallic card wasn't too hard either, but Youkai Polygraph.....no idea how to get past that.

Had 35 seconds left on Genetics since I wasn't hitting her at all.....

With Miracle Fruit, you need to take your eyes off your hitbox for a few seconds as the fruits burst. Since they move straight, they're not going to be going around the screen a lot. Make little movements.

I'm not really good with Bumper Crop either, but from what I've seen, you should feint and turn so that the grain stalk (the multi-bullet line) is tricked into your last position and move across to the other side and repeat, while making sure you don't eat any stray grains.

A tip for Ancestors Standing Beside Your Bed: For odd-numbered lasers in the sequence, go straight up to shotgun her, then slowly herd the bullets to the left, and make your way back to the middle slowly as soon as you hear the charging sound.

Danmaku Paranoia will make you paranoid, but with mid-sized bullets like those, you can move almost an entire character hitbox into the bullet without getting pwned.

Youkai Polygraph is all about tricking the "polygraph" into forming gaps via unfocused speed. Works best when you can move diagonally, or up, down, left and right to the edge of the screen in one move.

LHCling · « **Reply #263 on:** August 19, 2009, 01:20:47 AM »

Quote from: Azinth on August 18, 2009, 11:08:52 PM

Forgive me if I'm out of date, but has anyone found a way to make Kogasa's first boss card on lunatic somewhat manageable? Like, is there a way to not get walled five seconds in or just tips to surviving it in general. (not that it really matters I guess... I'm definitely bombing this in a real game run)

And for Ichirin's final spell, is it better to stay at the bottom and go up to avoid the fists or stay up and drop down? Or is there a better way?

Right, there are a few varied methods.

Using SanaeB, MarisaB, and maybe SanaeA [untested], you try to shoot down as many umbrellas as you can, before they make it down to the bottom half of the screen. Then it's just a matter of reading the bullets (very easy) and either flowing with the pattern of pink bullets, or wall jumping to attempt to stay underneath Kogasa.

Using MarisaA makes things a bit more interesting. You can either zoom around and still do the same thing, or you can decide to just blow up the "front" and "rear" umbrellas. You leave the side ones, and they will circle around below you. This means that you should be a bit closer to Kogasa, but that really shouldn't be a problem. Alternatively, you could use more of the screen to keep distant from umbrellas, but this has the disadvantage of taking longer.

Other shot types are untested. SanaeA is also untested, but it should work in theory. I haven't tested it yet, so :V

The trajectory of the said umbrellas is confusing, so I won't describe them in words. But they do form rather nice and consistent curves, strangely enough.

If you need a video demonstration, name the shot type and I'll give it a go.

Ichirin's final Spell Card can be done many ways. As a general rule, only vertical dodging is really required. There's not much difference from moving up and moving down, apart from trying to dodge lasers. It should be noted that it's easier to dodge the lasers from about a quarter of the screen up, and it's also interesting to note (I have no idea if this is changed or not):

Spoiler:

Funny how the Trial is like an exact duplicate of the full version. It's clearly "balanced".

Bananamatic · « **Reply #264 on:** August 19, 2009, 02:25:22 AM »

Genetics of the Subconscious.
Not really hard(1 life lost, 2 bombs) but I can't figure out how to beat it, so I end up timing it out every time.

For the majority of my runs, I'm usually hanging on my last life, then I get another one, just to lose one on the next spellcard. Got me through all the way to her second to last spellcard, which I've almost instantly failed at the second phase.

Sometimes, I completely mess up both of the heart cards, sometimes I capture both easily.....

And the fact that I barely ever reach her without losing a life. And the constant dying on her nonspells.

Seiryuu · « **Reply #265 on:** August 19, 2009, 04:02:46 AM »

I die on Koishi's spellcards, but...

which non-spellcards are you referring to?

Kanako Yasaka · « **Reply #266 on:** August 19, 2009, 04:13:58 AM »

Not really a spellcard but Byakuren's 3rd nonspell. I always die like 3 FUCKING TIMES on it.

Alice Fact · « **Reply #267 on:** August 19, 2009, 05:06:36 AM »

[StB] 1-1 and 1-6 are urgh. I don't think I could stand those patterns in Raizing games, I really don't

oh wait RAIZING GAMES DON'T PLAY LIKE StB

♛ Apher-Forte · « **Reply #268 on:** August 19, 2009, 05:42:24 AM »

anyone remedied the bendy lasers of Byakuren and Toramaru yet?

I keep dying on those two... like 2 times on each try.

nintendonut888 · « **Reply #269 on:** August 19, 2009, 06:40:06 AM »

I'm pretty sure that the curvy lasers on Byakuren's third spell card are static, because I can dodge them in the beginning the same way every time. Unfortunately, the problem is the same one I have with BoWaP: I DIE the same way every time too. >_<

Also, I am determined to master Nue's red UFO attack! Indeed, telling me which side to start on has made things much easier, but I've run into the obvious second problem: The aimed bullets. Can someone tell me how the aiming mechanism for these works? If you can, I'm sure I'll be able to figure out this spell card at long last.

And is it just me, or is Kogasa's first spell card static? It looks random, but I notice that the first wave has an opening the same place every time. If so, that'd explain why I constantly die to it...

Author Topic: Spellcard Help Topic (Read 145724 times)

Bananamatic

Flay_wind

Bananamatic

Bananamatic

Kanako Yasaka