SWR and IaMP - Story Mode Spellcards

[nintendonut888]

For some reason it doesn't feel proper to ask this in the spell card help thread.

Anyway, in case it isn't clear, I SUCK at the fighting games. Especially IaMP. Yet I want to 1cc lunatic modo. Due to various reasons I will only be using teh Yukarin for this, the biggest one being that the AI's penchant for charge attacks makes them fodder for Yukari's signs. Even though I cannot combo or even pull off 421/623 moves half the time I have beaten hard mode thanks to this. However, lunatic is definitely made of harder stuff...or at least I assume so, because I can't even pass the first stage. D:

tl;dr, I need info on how to deal with lunatic spell cards using Yukari. I can't make heads or tails of Bad Lady Scramble, the very first spell card Yukari faces. I also can't find any lunatic run on Youtube that uses Yukari. Any help would be greatly appreciated for that or any other spell card. If you don't know, here is the order of opponents in Yukari's scenario:

Stage 1: Remilia
Stage 2: Alice
Stage 3: Youmu
Stage 4: Marisa
Stage 5: Reimu
Stage 6: Yuyuko
Stage 7: Suika

[Esoterica]

Of course this is with Yukari, I doubt I can beat lunatic with her   She's just way too awkward in IaMP, I can't control her at all.

Anyway...Remilia's spellcards are all garbage (though I shouldn't need to tell you that).  However, if you're using Yukari, I think her Quadruple Barrier cards have invincibility frames.  If they do, you can just enter spelltrance and use those on her (I'm assuming you'd use them, anyway, since Ran and Chen are only useful if you can combo, and the fireballs are pretty worthless overall). Otherwise, best advice I can give you is to use 421A and gap out of the way and try hitting her with 2B after.

Alice is almost entirely just grazing and landing a quick bullet or melee hit at any chance you can get.  There isn't really a character specific strategy for her.

Youmu's first card is absolute bullshit, use spellcards if at all possible.  Note that the clones' attacks are considered bullets, meaning you can graze them, and they'll do spirit damage if they're blocked.  Again though, Yukari can gap away from harm.

I don't remember what Marisa's like at later stages.  First card just 421A to her other side or jump over her, and hit her when she lands.  Normally I'd say "don't try to hit her if you land late after jumping", but Yukari can actually chain her 421A/C off of any landed ground hit/bullet, so if you have spare spirit you can pretty much hit her whenever.  Second card, just graze everything when it gets too dense and slam her with 2B or 5C.  On the Master Spark card, hold up and back when she's about to attack; you'll harmlessly bounce on the top of the spark.  I don't remember if she has anything else.

Don't remember a Reimu fight this late on either, first card you want to hit her as early as you can, second card you can hit her with 2B after each teleport, but I can't help beyond that.

Yuyuko, again, lacks character specific strategies that I'm aware of.  First card just dash against her and slam her when she's done shooting, second card graze a lot so you don't get raped by the ghosts, third card do the same.  Last card has almost no HP, so just spam it.

Suika I'm not even going to try to explain.

If it helps you out, you can watch my Patchouli 1cc.  Fights that should help you out the most are Alice (stage 3), Yuyuko (stage 5), and Suika.  Marisa I probably fight too early on to really help you with anything, and I had a desync against Youmu (stage 4, it still shows me as winning at least :V).

EDIT: Well, maybe not Yuyuko.  Rewatching it, God I did terrible against her in that run.

[nintendonut888]

Hmm, gapping is really hard for me because of my aforementioned deficiency for 421s and 623s, but that helped me to finally beat Remilia without dying. Now I'm entering stage 3 for the first time. Inb4 Youmu completely rapes all my lives with Double Pain. D:

Amazingly, only one life was raped. Marisa's easy, so I'm currently at Reimu with 2 lives. Another spell card I need help on is that Yin Yang King or whatever it's called when she fires a freaking huge yin yang orb. It's too big to graze through or jump over.

Reimu's probably the most difficult opponent outside of spell cards because she's the only opponent Yukari faces that doesn't rely on charge attacks. I lost one life. I fully expect to lose both my remaining lives to Yuyuko's second spell card because that one is absolutely horrible.

...lol. I get past Remi without dying for the first time ever and I can suddenly reach Suika. Yuyu took yet another life, leaving me with none. I know for a fact I won't be defeating Suika, not a chance, but this is interesting...and proof that Yukari's signs break the AI. I don't think I should get "no use another character or u no legit" because me using this is just like one of those good players/people who know what the hell they're doing punishing a noob trying the same move over and over again.

Made it to Supermassive Conflageration. Trying again through practice though, it looks like Pandemonium is going to be an extreme run stopper. It actually seems pretty manageable...until the black hole appears. Then I can't get a single blow in before losing every one of my lives.

[shadowbringer]

http://rapidshare.com/files/296688391/replay000.rep.html
not a 1cc, but weren't for some wasted lives (seeing Reimu and Yuyuko for the first time after not playing the Story Mode for a long time), I would reach Suika with more lives. Dunno if there's strategies that you can use, though

[shadowbringer]

http://rapidshare.com/files/296929251/replay002.rep.html
Stage 1 notes:
- 623 isn't very useful against Remilia (she will stuff it on most of her attacks due to faster startup on her part, I think), might work a few times, when she's dashing (since she has a delayed startup from grazing), but I rely more on the B and C projectiles (sometimes the A ones too), and the long-range pokes (and the j3A), since if I can't compete with her faster startup on moves, I'll keep some distance from her and attack beforehand from a distance, where her regular moves can't reach me, in order to attack her if she tries to come closer (yes, I'm taking advantage of the AI )  my aim here is to get at least 3 super gauges to use on her first spellcard, and that's earned by shooting her (simply shooting away from her won't increase your meter), attacking her (preferably when she's blocking) or defending her attacks. Normally I try to get super gauges and bring my life down before making Remilia activate the first spellcard.
- when she activates the first spellcard, there are two situations in which you may use yours (the Charming Quadruple Barrier): when you're cornered and Remilia hasn't initiated her walljump from a jump (because if you try to use your super when she's too high on her wall, your super will whiff, because she'll land behind you, where she becomes vulnerable, and will not be hit), and when you feel she's going to attack you with regular attacks (for example, if you see her sliding or jumping towards you). In this replay, Remilia fell for my f5Bs, so I didn't need the other supers
- when she activates her second spellcard, there are two easy ways to get behind her: by jumping normally (if you're right next to her) or by doing a single highjump forward (you'll want to avoid airdashing, since it halts you in the air for a little). You may even be able to spend a super on her.

Stage 2 notes:
- I must test if Yukari's 66A will always beat Alice right at the beginning of the fight, have forgotten to try on this run
- I must test if Yukari's 66A can be spammed on Alice during her first spellcard :p
Note that the most dangerous part of this spellcard is when she jumps backwards while throwing the explosive dolls. One way to get past the explosions if you're near her is to dash forward, then jump forward before the graze ends, and then airdash forward (you can see I got hit once when doing this, because my graze ended while I was on the air, and then another of the same pattern caught me). If she's on the ground, swinging her arm to throw the dolls upwards, you can hit her twice before the explosion can harm you from behind (your hits will push you backwards, towards that explosion :p)
- though the B projectiles are efficient against her second spellcard, I should've allowed Alice to win the first round, so that I could finish her faster through the supers

Stage 3 notes:
- Youmu has faster startup than you, but lacks the speed of Remilia's projectiles. When she does the 33B move (the one where she jumps forward while hitting the opponent with her knee), you can hit her with your A button (against an human opponent, you would have to be careful to not eat Youmu's 623A, but the AI doesn't use it after that move, so, exploit the AI ). You can also try to use j3A if/when you feel that Youmu will come forward or when you're trying to do a crossup when she's on the ground (and hasn't used 5C or 2C)
- against her first spellcard, be patient, get out of corners as soon as you find an opportunity to, pay attention to the clones (if they're not attacking, wait for them to attack, then after their 3 swordslashes or whatever other attack they'll use, they'll have a delay). If you can, use projectiles from afar (be careful of the clones' jump/dash attacks). It's okay to activate spellcards here in order to gain more health, you'll be able to build super meters after this spellcard
- against her second spellcard (assuming that you've built enough meters, here I used 3), you may want to spend supers here, since her last spellcard is easy enough. Keep distance with projectiles, and Youmu will not use her blue sword. If she manages to corner you or get close, she may want to use it, try to use your super so that the sword goes through it, instead of using your super before (like I did. I was afraid of missing the timing, and be hit before I could use the super). If you have some time advantage, though, there's also the option to jump behind her (think of Remilia's spears, except that this time you shouldn't do regular jumps) to avoid the sword and then use super. But if she uses regular moves instead, she can knock you down and then the situation can get out of control, temporarily.
- the last card is solved much like you did the former (keep away through projectiles, then instead of doing single high jumps, you do high jumps and airdashes to graze the bullets shot by Myon, then you get Youmu from behind)

Stage 4 notes:
- Against Marisa, watch out for her f5A laser
- Against her first spellcard, it's easy. Use high jumps upwards, two airdashes forward to avoid the stars, wait for Yukari to face Marisa, use 5Cs (I used 5Bs because I thought I would have time to high jump cancel them)
- against her second spellcard, B projectiles will easily get you through it.
- against Master Spark, it's only a trouble if Marisa's cornered when she uses it. After watching the replay again, I'm considering letting Marisa win the first round before the first spellcard, and use the supers on the spellcards for more points (I just have to remember to use the supers when Marisa's falling after her broomride, not during it).

To be continued..
edit: I think I need to think for a while in order to improve these runs, even if slightly, and then give a proper advice. From Reimu's stage till the end of the game, there's nothing really special/unobvious that would be worth noting..

[nintendonut888]

Frankly I need the most help on Pandemonium. I can't even land a single blow on Suika once she brings in the black hole before I lose every last one of my lives.

[nintendonut888]

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

WTF PANDEMONIUM IS THE BIGGEST PIECE OF SHIT I'VE EVER SEEN. HOW DO YOU DO IT. SOMEONE PLEASE TELL ME. I CAN'T EVEN BEAT PRACTICE MODE ALL BECAUSE OF THIS SPELL CARD.

Also the game requiring more than one button to activate a spell card is really fucking annoying, and has got me killed MANY times all because I can't freaking make my loli activate a spell card.

[Esoterica]

It's been way too long since I've dealt with it, but I'm pretty sure triangle grazing until you see an opening and going for a melee hit is the way to take it out once you run out of cards to spam.

* Lifespring Infinity points back at his videos.

[nintendonut888]

What the fuck is triangle grazing?

Also, it doesn't matter WHAT you do, you are SCREWED. That big ball is IMPOSSIBLE to avoid. Even if you get lucky and graze through it, it doesn't make a big of difference, because the bubble bullet burst will counter you, knock you into a long loop with the spinning attack, which will throw you at the corner JUST in time for the NEXT ball to beat the crap out of you because FOR SOME ARBITRARY REASON YOU CAN'T GUARD AND EVEN IF YOU DO IT WILL JUST GUARD BREAK YOU AND THIS REPEATS OVER AND OVER.

FUCK. THIS IS WHY I HATE THE FIGHTERS. I CAN'T DO A FUCKING THING TO AVOID GETTING HIT. SUPER CONFLAGERATION IS THE SAME FUCKING STORY.

* Donut storms out

[Esoterica]

Dashing, then immediately jumping and backdashing, then dashing forward when you land, repeat.  I'm pretty sure that's what it's called anyway, it essentially puts you in a permanent state of graze.

And Supermassive Conflagration's completely doable until you get hit.  Once you've lost your momentum it's almost impossible to get it back.

[nintendonut888]

I know for a fact that that is a lie. The attack will knock you out of that loop during the back dash part.

And how does one avoid getting hit during Supermassive Conflageration, hmm?

[Esoterica]

I know for a fact that that is a lie. The attack will knock you out of that loop during the back dash part.

And how does one avoid getting hit during Supermassive Conflageration, hmm?

Again, replay.

And Yukari has noncontinuous graze in her dash in UNL, that might apply to IaMP too.

[nintendonut888]

HAH.

BRAH.

*snaps Suika's neck*

I...finally...did...it...

It looks like your triangle grazing thing might work, but it requires someone who isn't bitterly hated by the game engine. Seriously, fucking game doesn't register my button inputs 3/4 of the time. I would chalk this up to an error on my part, but when it happens OVER and OVER and OVER again, after I CLEARLY do it correctly, I'mma place the blame on the game. Anyway, I discovered that if I block, there is one brief instant where Suika leaves herself open. But really, it's just ludicrous how difficult this attack is, especially since you have to get all the way through the game just to get to it.

[Esoterica]

Oh thank God, I was just about to open IaMP and see if I could figure Yukari out in 15 minutes.  Thanks for saving me some pain, and congratulations. :V

And in a bittersweet turn of events, I accidentally saved over LLS by clicking something in Anex86 when deciding to play that instead. :c

[nintendonut888]

Shouldn't it still be in the recycling bin?

[Sodium]

Oh Donut. No one plays IaMP for it's story mode.

[nintendonut888]

Oh Donut. No one plays IaMP for it's story mode.

I'm here to change all that.

* Donut looks off into the distance, failing at looking cool

[Esoterica]

Shouldn't it still be in the recycling bin?

Saved over, not deleted.  Instead of clicking "..." I clicked "New" without even realizing it :c

[shadowbringer]

I tried getting to her again (since 1: you apparently haven't bothered to watch my replay :p and 2: I would try to come up with a different plan for Suika's final pattern), to.. come up with a different plan for Suika's different pattern

If you watch my replay, you may notice that I declare my spellcard on Suika's conflagration pattern, try to hit her from afar (with either 5c or f5b), and when she comes close (and I know I'm not going to get hit by her or the projectiles, and she's going to attack me -- like when she jumps towards you; you may expect her j5a, or her j5c, among other moves. Once you confirm that she's going to attack you, enjoy the invincibility of your super), I use the super if I've got her to attack me (I would rely on the leftover super charges ).
After getting past that pattern, there's one more pattern before the last one (Pandemonium). This second-to-last pattern is easy, just attack her with your 5c attacks, or the b projectiles if you have the time advantage. Be patient, and try to build your super meter.

Now, for the final pattern, it begins easy enough for you to just hit her from afar (5c, or 5b if you have enough time before being hit by her projectiles). When she destroys your gauges, then you activate your spellcard. Get close to her, use it, until she uses her black hole.
When being cornered while in the air, try to not block, since then you'll be guardcrushed and probably take more damage from more incoming patterns (all melee and shot type attacks deal more block damage while spirit drained). Also, even if you still have enough supers to spend, don't spend them if you're right under Suika; use them from a distance, or else she'll attract Yukari and then her super will miss the remaining hits as Yukari stands right under Suika. When you're done using the supers, or if you choose to not use them, (warning: I haven't had a chance to test this) you may try to go to the corner and, if the large ball isn't coming, jump upwards, airdash forward (through the wall of bullets), then use j5c, you shall be falling backwards, then do an additional airdash backwards/forward if needed before reaching the ground. Jumping towards Suika and attempting to hit her with melee will probably not work, because Yukari needs time to recover herself from the melee attack and then dash backwards, more recovery time than when using a projectile and dash-cancel from it. Against the large ball, you'll notice that I tried to lure it away, or simply block it (I thought it would be the source of Suika's largest damage output).

I hope this helps.. (and regarding the inputs, I don't feel such delays, since I tend to hold my keyboard buttons for spellcard declarations/uses)

[nintendonut888]

Thanks, but...I think I really need to just say screw it and stop for the night. I'll look at this next time I feel like hating myself.

I know it's probably been addressed, but WTF @ Double Pain. There's just absolutely nothing I can see that can be done. You obviously can't graze, the clones catch up to you no matter where you go, and they'll surround you if you just try and block. I NEED to be able to beat Youmu without dying, but I can't manage it even once.

And it's not delays, it's the fact that the game is extremely picky about what it wants to count as a correct button input; the chief reason I hate fighting games in the first place.

[Alfred F. Jones]

WTF @ Double Pain

And by that, you mean Triple Pain.

Isn't Youmu a joy on lunatic? :D :D :D

[Esoterica]

You obviously can't graze (Double Pain)

Protip: Ghosts are classified as bullets.

Basically, you want to repeatedly dash-jump over Youmu until the ghosts end up going in a different direction, smacking her once or twice (probably with a 5C/j.2C), repeat.

[nintendonut888]

You mean bullest who have physical attacks. >:[

Also Youmu keeps grazing through my 5Cs. It's not enough that you're triple teamed, but she grazes everything and usually has super armor on.

[Esoterica]

No, bullets with bullet attacks.  Don't let appearances fool you, anything the ghosts do can be grazed and does spirit damage, whereas anything Youmu does can't and will only do spirit damage wrongblocked.

You can't do anything about the grazing aside from waiting (or somehow landing a melee hit), but she only has super armor during her 214 and 623 animations.

All in all though, it's just a huge pain in the ass.  Kind of like stage 4 survival cards.

[nintendonut888]

Okay...I can consistently take out Pandemonium with this extremely high-risk strategy of mine that essentially relies on me not screwing up blocking once. So if I could theoretically ever reach it with an entire life to spare I'd have a decent shot at taking it out. Aside from Supermassive Conflageration being a bitch though, I'm having some troubles with Reverse Black Hole now. Suika keeps knocking me back into it.

Three other spell cards I'm having a ton of trouble with:

Reimu's second spell card. Damn little miko won't let me get a single hit in.

Yuyuko's second spell card: A.K.A lol good luck ever getting a hit in with random ghosts constantly hurting you.

Yuyuko's last spell card (remember that this is unique to Yukari's scenario): There's probably no trick to it, but it's really annoying and is a big reason why I can't beat Yuyuko without dying.

[Esoterica]

Reimu: f.2B after every teleport?  Just gun her down and graze the orbs.

Yuyuko(2): Graze ghosts before attacking to clear space, attack with bullets and always dash/hjc, or abuse spellcards.

I don't even know what the other card is.

[nintendonut888]

So...



Thanks for the help guys. That's 14 lunatics down, 2 to go. Replay coming in a bit so you can see just how noobish I play.

EDIT: http://rapidshare.com/files/298482169/replay049.rep.html

[nintendonut888]

Kyah, me again. >_> After IaMP went so well, I figured SWR would be a snap. Not so much. There are some definite problem cards that threaten to keep me from beating this thing, and I hope some strapping young lad will come to aid me in my quest to punish the celestial. FYI, I'm using Youmu thanks to her 22C/5C being a great asset against those annoying floaty spell cards. Some spell cards that are stumping me:

Komachi's second spell card: This one really confused me after going at it in spell practice. It seems self-explanatory: Don't get caught in the purple fog and dash to avoid the incoming aerial strike. The problem is that I proceeded to evade the fog, dashed...and kept getting hit. No matter how many times I tried, I could not outrun the attack. It being unblockable makes this seem like an undodgeable attack. Yet sometimes when I'm caught in the fog and am just dashing madly I mysteriously dodge it. o_O I'm just confused.

Doppler Effect: AIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. This is possibly the most enraging spell card in the game. Yukari never seems to leave herself open, and a slight quickening in the pattern makes my hard mode strategy (get into a rhythm of jumping above her and j. 2A over and over) useless. It doesn't help that the attack is made to have no openings. The only way I've ever gotten through this is getting a spell card off early and taking most of the lifebar.

Nest of Fireflies: Is there something I'm missing? I have a way to at least survive this attack, but it seems horribly ineffective.

Tenshi's third spell card: To think I laughed at this one back on iiji modo...I'm just not sure how to make an opening with so many things happening at once.

Tenshi's fourth spell card: It's not TOO bad, but I'm sure there's an easy way to deal with it.

SCARLET WEATHER RHAPSODY OF ALL MANKIND: Ironically, I have the laser down pretty well. It's the first two phases that really get me. Those slow moving lasers Tenshi is constantly spitting out seem to leave an impenetrable barrier. By the time I manage to clear the lasers (which block my projectiles of course), she shoots out another wave. D: Then the second phase adds those lasers that do a ton of damage if they trap you...I just don't know what to do.

Tasukete! D:

[LHCling]

Komachi's second spell card: This one really confused me after going at it in spell practice. It seems self-explanatory: Don't get caught in the purple fog and dash to avoid the incoming aerial strike. The problem is that I proceeded to evade the fog, dashed...and kept getting hit. No matter how many times I tried, I could not outrun the attack. It being unblockable makes this seem like an undodgeable attack. Yet sometimes when I'm caught in the fog and am just dashing madly I mysteriously dodge it. o_O I'm just confused.

Story Mode Newbie coming through (in other words, me).

What you do is you first charge out of the field, wait for the scythe to swing down and then charge through. Use 22C / 5C after a quick dash through.

In short; dash, wait, dash, attack, repeat.

And... that's all 3 continues did for me.
Damn I suck at Story Mode. You're probably better off giving me your score.dat so I can mess around  :V

[nintendonut888]

But that doesn't seem to work. :| I'll try it just for you though.

Also, Youmu's sakura blossom sword thingy spell card is PHENOMONAL in story mode. As long as you aren't hit while activating it, it is guaranteed to do damage because the damaging part can't turn into those red shards, and on top of that it will reduce almost any spell card to cinders. I found that I survive better if I take skill cards off that useless double slash move and put more of that in my deck.

Reached Iku's LOL LIGHTNING last spell card before losing my last life. Also I apprently need help on Reimu's second spell card too.