Author Topic: Periodic Touhou tournament discussion thread (TEST RUN OVER) (Read 44202 times)

moozooh · « **Reply #90 on:** October 15, 2009, 04:32:11 PM »

Most of these should suffice, although I'd probably take this one for Easy mode.

LHCling · « **Reply #91 on:** October 15, 2009, 08:05:52 PM »

Bah, and I did a SA Lunatic 1cc as well with MarisaC. Guess I'll have to do it again...

ebarrett · « **Reply #92 on:** October 15, 2009, 08:14:36 PM »

To be honest I expected something other than a half-assed score challenge where you don't have to score, but still must go through the ridiculous scorerunning crap. :V

moozooh · « **Reply #93 on:** October 15, 2009, 08:55:36 PM »

I thought stuff like pacifist SA Reimu-C would be too much for the pilot tourney. :D

Anyway, this isn't really a score challenge because you don't have to actively score. You don't have to survive to beat the games either, if you find good tradeoff spots for required points. For instance, burning all remaining lives on Utsuho's 1st and 3rd regulars does seem viable in this competition as opposed to conserving them to beat the game.

I promise that the next challenge week won't have anything to do with grazing.

8lue Wizard · « **Reply #94 on:** October 15, 2009, 09:05:43 PM »

Wow, I had no idea there were so many grazing opportunities just in S1 alone. Just pulled off 1k+ in practice mode. (Now to work on doing it without dying 5 times. :V)

LHCling · « **Reply #95 on:** October 16, 2009, 12:03:46 AM »

donut should join :V

That SA grazefest is actually pretty fun. I'm going to work on that alone I think.

mikeKOSA · « **Reply #96 on:** October 16, 2009, 04:11:45 AM »

Quote from: Heartbeam on October 15, 2009, 12:50:55 PM

Wording sounds a bit off. Just increase it by grazing bullets while your supernatural border is active. Increases by 30 per bullet grazed unfocused, 80 unfocused, and 10,000 for letting the border time out naturally. But of course, let the wiki do the work!

thanks!! sorry my english sucks

Bananamatic · « **Reply #97 on:** October 16, 2009, 01:26:20 PM »

fgsfds
if there is one thing I'm worse at than grazing, it's supergrazing.
And if there is anything I'm worse at than supergrazing, it's UNFOCUSED supergrazing.

Not to mention that I'm much more of a Reimu user in PCB, so all of my PCB Phantasm deaths were "how the fuck did that hit me" or "what the hell hit me anyways, I swear there wasn't anything"

Heartbeam · « **Reply #98 on:** October 16, 2009, 01:55:37 PM »

Quote from: mikeKOSA on October 16, 2009, 04:11:45 AM

thanks!! sorry my english sucks

No, sorry. It was directed at the challenge requirement. It was sort of implied (not your post, that came second) there would be a cap to reach with the CherryMax and I thought 'highest' would be better suited, but after thinking on it a little it sounds fine. I merely jumped on the first impression with that comment.

LHCling · « **Reply #99 on:** October 17, 2009, 09:38:11 AM »

Quote from: Heartbeam on October 17, 2009, 09:10:45 AM

By the way, there's something curious that happened around the 34 second mark for Utsuho's opener if anyone would like to explain. Is it an exact spot to the very pixel?

That looks like an exact spot to me. I would have no idea to how to get onto that spot every time though.

I reckon going beyond 30k Graze is possible for SA Easy. ~~Though, just barely past it.~~ Screw that, you can probably go 33k Graze with enough precision. That's assuming low consistency for entering Utsuho's blindspot in the opener.

However, once I find some sort of marker to get into that spot, then I could perhaps allow a greater room for error elsewhere...

ghost333 · « **Reply #100 on:** October 18, 2009, 11:34:15 AM »

what the hell my cherry on lunatic on stage 6 is about 500.000+ only...

Garlyle · « **Reply #101 on:** October 18, 2009, 02:16:44 PM »

Argh I can't even do this and I have NO EXCUSE D: running into Parsee's crap is just... argh. Running into Parsee herself is even more argh

Also all of Baity's replays desync after Utsuho, guaranteed (Regardless of stage started on and the usual suspects) so... I don't know even in theory what I'm gonna do vs Utsuho to get that last 10k+ Graze potential T.T;

Heartbeam · « **Reply #102 on:** October 18, 2009, 05:52:45 PM »

Just to be sure, if you were to start the replay on stage five and speed it until the end of that stage but leave the entirety of stage six running at normal speed...does it still happen?

Here's a practice run showing the rough outline in case you can't get the others to work. No need to explain the grazing hotspots, but use of bombs and lives are another matter. Varying on how many resources you have left at this point and I think it's worth it to spend some on Orin's ghost wheels. Most suicides should go to her opener because it yields less graze the 'regular' way compared to the third noncard. Then you have death timing which, based on this run, should be much earlier to benefit more from sitting in the middle. If you can safespot it that's a plus, but expect the worst.

Garlyle · « **Reply #103 on:** October 19, 2009, 03:45:24 AM »

Thanks a lot; I'll try my damndest to get out a good run at work tonight. 8D

LHCling · « **Reply #104 on:** October 19, 2009, 10:03:28 AM »

Stage 6 Demonstration / Test for SA (Easy).

This only shows the tactics to be used in a future run. Very unlikely that I'll be able to pull that off though. Additionally, most of the non-spells ended too early from bomb / death damage. Potential Graze count for Stage 6 should be easily 14k+, and with enough precision (something that I lack: see Me and super-grazing Ichirin's opener), I reckon 20k+ is possible.

Not going to tell you the safespots by the way :V

Garlyle · « **Reply #105 on:** October 19, 2009, 11:19:59 AM »

Thank you both. Managed to get a run that at least went to Utsuho and 10k+, and I've got a VN I need to be writing so I can't spend forever retrying @_@ I'm satisfied with myself for now.

Anyway though, PCB. I have not played it in months and my experimental runs which know shit-all about how to optimize CherryMax in terms of route... I'm terrible 8D (Aside from knowing "Get SNB faster by going unfocused, graze like a crazy mofo during it to boost value, don't get hit!")

With that said, gonna sit down and release a couple as laughably amateur runs 8D 'Cause someone has to place on the bottom~

LHCling · « **Reply #106 on:** October 22, 2009, 11:30:13 AM »

Screwed up a run by shooting during "Hell's Artificial Sun". Lost waaaay too much graze because of it. Couldn't even safespot the opener right. Messed up Stage 4 lasers 4 times. Total Graze amounted to a measly 29,900. I don't even know how to graze the GOAST WHEELS properly; perhaps I should look into that first.

EDIT: Alright, now I know. No wonder why I was only getting 100 a go.
EDIT 2: And I should probably practice grazing certain non-spells that I was trying to graze before (and failing at)

By the way, circle grazing is fun.

Heartbeam · « **Reply #107 on:** October 22, 2009, 06:20:28 PM »

Completely lost track of the days left in this challenge. What is there to say? The low turnout I would guess to be from being too scoring-centric with less-than-favored shot types. It may have been the primary target for the first tourney but you can survive well enough in the game and sweep half the board. This one is much more nitpicky and such.

I do like circle grazing as another way to 'chase' bullets without endangering yourself much, but when you're trying to make away with something as large as Parsee's rings it's something that can't be picked up immediately like Yuyuko's penultimate spell or Lunasa's second noncard. I remember watching one of HS参謀's runs with Reimu where he did something of the sort with Alice's last noncard. He had to stand so far away just to not get caught by the expanding attack and didn't cover more than 15% of the surface.

shadowbringer · « **Reply #108 on:** October 22, 2009, 07:31:01 PM »

sorry for not being much participative.. (and perhaps for what I'll say now :p)

When I started playing for both challenges, I had difficulties in spotting potential graze sources (for SA) and CherryPointMax improvements, there were materials (replays) but the games seemed to have way more keypoints (and some/most of them felt unobvious to me) than I'm normally able to recognize. So all I did was improvise/experiment for the most part, and try to take advantage of certain patterns that I were expecting beforehand (but still not knowing much what to do about them). Here I'm more like, complaining about not having a strategy guide to read (some games with simpler scoring mechanics such as Varth and Thunder Dragon 2 may not require more than one decent gameplay video -- or an input file from a STGT teammate, in the case of Varth :p), some days ago I was complaining more about grazing :p (and again, these games prove to be more enjoyable -- like most shmups I've played -- when you do get through the first stages, since the latter stages have better potential for cherry/graze and I was directing too much effort into executing the first stages well. I was feeling that, since the graze count on the first stage was disappointing, I should risk myself more, and didn't notice that the game didn't reward me well enough for the risk taken in stage 1, which was/is the main cause of my restarts)

Garlyle · « **Reply #109 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:23:34 AM »

Quote from: Heartbeam on October 22, 2009, 06:20:28 PM

Completely lost track of the days left in this challenge. What is there to say? The low turnout I would guess to be from being too scoring-centric with less-than-favored shot types. It may have been the primary target for the first tourney but you can survive well enough in the game and sweep half the board.

I have a feeling the natural score-based matches will have a larger turnout XD

Oh well, I loved it anyway. It's a good excuse to look into and learn Touhou tricks and showoff techniques, which are always fun 8D

Anyway, I'm all for two-per-month in the current format. It may be better to offer more varied options for week two though - one based on survival or limited resources or something, and the other based on maximizing a potential of some sort. Erm, if that makes any sense XD

Also, hahaha, did I just win a category by default? 8D

Also? I'd love to see some Single-Stage special challenges for Week 2, as opposed to Full Game. Having to work entirely on one stage changes some tactics depending on game, as you can't benefit from Barrier/UFO carryover, for instance - but it's not as time consuming as a full-game challenge to learn and master from scratch.

LHCling · « **Reply #110 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:30:50 AM »

Quote from: Garlyle on October 23, 2009, 04:23:34 AM

Also? I'd love to see some Single-Stage special challenges for Week 2, as opposed to Full Game.

This. This this this this this.

ghost333 · « **Reply #111 on:** October 23, 2009, 12:25:43 PM »

Quote from: Baity on October 23, 2009, 04:30:50 AM

This. This this this this this.

agree

Bananamatic · « **Reply #112 on:** October 23, 2009, 04:59:38 PM »

Quote from: ghost333 on October 23, 2009, 12:25:43 PM

agree

that.
I didn't do anything this time since I hate grazing. :V

ghost333 · « **Reply #113 on:** October 23, 2009, 06:13:21 PM »

btw i have already some plans in my mind for next week
i wonder if i should host this time

Sodium · « **Reply #114 on:** October 25, 2009, 03:06:35 AM »

Whoops. Forgot about this in my week of VoWG Lunatic timeouting. =V

Desert · « **Reply #115 on:** October 27, 2009, 05:01:49 AM »

The one I wanted to join, and my internet decides to die right before it started. It's kinda funny in a sad way.
Also going to agree with there being some single stage challenges. Maybe during week 2 having one full game and one single stage.

lmagus · « **Reply #116 on:** October 28, 2009, 01:45:01 PM »

I think the scores in this Tournament should go to the High Scores forum!

That forum is so abandoned, only the same people seem to post there.

Would be great to have a lot of activity...

I keep posting my scores there, no matter how bad they are, everyone should do the same, if they could =)

moozooh · « **Reply #117 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:29:36 PM »

Okay, I finally got around to updating the rest of the submissions. Let's see what issues/criticisms we have.

1. Special challenges are too scoring-centric.
Well, yes, as it was largely my original intention. I now see that more variety is needed, so that will be accounted for in future tourneys. I like Garlyle's idea of one restriction-based and one maximization-based challenges per week.

2. Special challenges are too long (i.e., full-game).
Quite probably it is better to restrict [some of] them to a single stage. So far I like the idea of doing one full-game and one single-stage challenges in a week, but that seems rather imbalanced. I need more opinions on this.

ghost333:
You can PM me your ideas, and it might be that they end up in the tourney.

I don't know when we're ready to host the next tourney. Shall it be November, 1st, again? Is everyone ok with that? Also, I would like to request some updating help from lgb because I'm not very quick when it comes to mass submission processing (laziness, etc.).

Garlyle · « **Reply #118 on:** October 30, 2009, 02:19:27 AM »

Quote from: moozooh on October 29, 2009, 08:29:36 PM

Okay, I finally got around to updating the rest of the submissions. Let's see what issues/criticisms we have.

1. Special challenges are too scoring-centric.
Well, yes, as it was largely my original intention. I now see that more variety is needed, so that will be accounted for in future tourneys. I like Garlyle's idea of one restriction-based and one maximization-based challenges per week.

2. Special challenges are too long (i.e., full-game).
Quite probably it is better to restrict [some of] them to a single stage. So far I like the idea of doing one full-game and one single-stage challenges in a week, but that seems rather imbalanced. I need more opinions on this.

ghost333:
You can PM me your ideas, and it might be that they end up in the tourney.

I don't know when we're ready to host the next tourney. Shall it be November, 1st, again? Is everyone ok with that? Also, I would like to request some updating help from lgb because I'm not very quick when it comes to mass submission processing (laziness, etc.).

I'm all for starting on the 1st 8D And I can probably try to keep an up-to-date-ish score list too. You'd just have to double-check everything later @_@ Anyway though, I still am all for one full-game special challenge and one single-stage - the main thing is that challenges like these have to be learned from scratch, mostly, or at least relearned to be at their most effective.

Quote

I think the scores in this Tournament should go to the High Scores forum!

Also, I totally agree with this.

Garlyle · « **Reply #119 on:** November 01, 2009, 02:42:29 AM »

So, uh, it's the 1st.

Author Topic: Periodic Touhou tournament discussion thread (TEST RUN OVER) (Read 44202 times)

ebarrett

mikeKOSA

Bananamatic

Heartbeam

Heartbeam

Heartbeam

Bananamatic