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| Touhou Project 17 「東方鬼形獣 ～ Wily Beast and Weakest Creature.」 |
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| R. P. Genocraft:
Honestly, I feel like the whole point is that the protagonist was dragged into a completely external conflict they didn't understand. It makes sense that it doesn't have much repercussion. Honestly, it's the same as LoLK. And you know how influential Doremy was to AoCF's plot, so just wait until ZUN puts one of the new characters in a fighting game. |
| CyberAngel:
SWR is interesting PRECISELY because it expands on topics touched upon in PMiSS. For SA, your partners all know about Old Hell, plus that's where Suika's oni buddies hang out. LoLK... come on, lunarians have already been a huge deal before. But let's expand this to other main games. UFO reintroduces Makai, the holy grail of "PC-98 IS CANON" crowd. 10D is an explicit direct result of the previous game, plus fans instantly picked up the idea of a "religion war" coming after that. DDC was set up as a Gensokyo-wide revolution. HSiFS introduces another one of Youkai Sages. Really, questioning the importance of any of the previous games is just plain ignorant, even if it's just for the sake of argument. WBaWC, on the other hand, TEASES you with current Hell's events but ignores them completely and shoves a story with no hint of previous relevance in your face. Even the heroines are just like "I have no idea what's going on but let's go along with it". I mean, that was kinda true several times in the past as well, but at least the PLAYERS usually came out with a good idea of what was going on. This time ZUN's excuse is literally just "plot-enforcing magic because ANIMAL YAKUZA LOL". This is just plain lazy and could have been done better, even for his usual storytelling style. Again, not denying that something else might be built upon this stuff later. Doremi and Hecatia's role expasions were a pleasant surprise, not gonna lie. But this game just doesn't catch my interest, so I'll end up caring less if something like that does happen. |
| MrNoobomnenie:
--- Quote from: CyberAngel on September 14, 2019, 10:15:03 AM ---LoLK... come on, lunarians have already been a huge deal before. --- End quote --- But Dream World wasn't. This was a completely new made up concept, that had never been mentioned anywhere before. Just like the Beast Realm. No, not even like that - Dream World had a very secondary role in the plot. And we all know, how this ended up... --- Quote from: CyberAngel on September 14, 2019, 10:15:03 AM ---Makai, the holy grail of "PC-98 IS CANON" crowd. --- End quote --- Do this people know, that Makai is not a Touhou-original concept, and came out straight from Buddhism? Basically, they are just saying something like "PC-98 and Windows both have Hell - PC-98 IS CANON!" |
| CyberAngel:
--- Quote from: MrNoobomnenie on September 14, 2019, 12:04:43 PM ---But Dream World wasn't. This was a completely new made up concept, that had never been mentioned anywhere before. Just like the Beast Realm. No, not even like that - Dream World had a very secondary role in the plot. And we all know, how this ended up... --- End quote --- Do I really have to point out inherent difference in expectations between a stepping stone midgame stage and the endgame goal location? Because when the latter literally comes out of nowhere the only impression it leaves is "why the hell am I supposed to care about this, again". |
| TresserT:
Tbh, I think a lot of the salt comes from the fact that this was the first time the bait and switch was an outright lie. IN was a similar case where it was an external conflict that Gensokyo didn't need to get involved in, but it still had ripples that affected Gensokyo. Reimu didn't go out looking for Lunarians- Reimu saw that the moon was gone and went looking for the source. She still had her own initiative- the fact that the conflict wound up being something else doesn't change Reimu's goal. In this game it feels less like we're going out to solve an incident that's bothering us and more like we're being dragged around and used like tools. Even in LoLK, we started with one goal and just changed that goal partway through once we learned about the conflict. This time around, we never get to understand what's going on and are just doing what the animal mob tells us. There is no "incident affecting Gensokyo that we go out to investigate"- the incident is that all these animals came looking for us. Reimu has no initiative this time, she really is just a tool. And that doesn't feel good to me. As for music, trying to claim that people who don't like this game's soundtrack are ridiculous is ??? How can anyone claim that their taste in music is better or worse? Personally I find the game's soundtrack to be a bit empty, particularly the boss themes. Idolatrize World is the worst offender. One thing I like about touhou music is that you can usually tell what kind of character a theme belongs to. Byakuren has a powerful, emotional theme that's got hints of sadness but has an underlying feeling of hope. Kokoro has a theme so over the top in its melancholy you can't help but feel it's a bit melodramatic- but that's the point, Kokoro doesn't understand her subtle emotions, she's only capable of showing her feelings with over the top caricatures. It doesn't help that Keiki is a character who isn't fleshed out much, but her theme just seems like a bunch of unrelated parts mashed together. I feel like you could take her theme and apply it to any generic rpg boss and it'd be fine. Can't tell at all what kind of character this is supposed to represent. I had the same issue with Junko's theme initially, but Junko could kind of get the excuse of her theme being a pure action theme with nothing behind it. I don't think Keiki's theme has any reason to be so generic. |
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