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Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 18F

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Serela: Nitori isn't mandatory, but she's pretty insane. Glass cannons are a lot harder to use in LoT2 and she deals glass cannon damage while being as durable as your main tank, while running a full attack build. Also once you start getting the better postgame gear she gets literally twice (or more) the attack of any other member of your party for a very significant portion of the game, which is quite frankly, broken as all getout and other characters don't start catching up until well into the 1000s.

seeker3218: --- Quote from: charliebobson on July 27, 2018, 04:54:38 PM ---so whats the general consensus on labyrinth of touhou 1? is it better or worse than 2, is it still worth playing after 2? --- End quote --- I've only played 2, so I don't have an opinion on 1, but I'll give my thoughts on 2. I like the game, and I love the variety it gives, especially with skills and gems to boost your characters.  I'm of the type that like to use a set number of characters that work well together in a game with many characters so that I can fully invest in them and use their full potential.  However, there are times where this was counterproductive, especially in postgame.  As many people have said, it's horribly unbalanced, especially with bosses.  You need a certain combination of characters to beat them, or I'm just a terrible player.  Yeah, Nitori and Meiling tower above everyone else because of how insanely powerful they are.  It's like if you're mising out completely if you don't use them, and them there are useless characters like Youmu. If the postgame bosses and characters were better balanced, this would've been my favorite game of all time.  Personally, I wished the postgame would better integrated into Plus Disk, like how the upper floors and basement floors were connected. I read from one of the posts that TH L1 did a better job at character balance than 2, but the too simple design drives me away.  I'm not really tempted to play it anytime soon.

Serela: The original postgame (non-plus) is ridiculously unbalanced and I shamelessly overleveled to wipe them out when I was doing my second play with Plus Disk. It was vaguely OK when they were the BIG SUPERBOSSES but once they're not the end of the end, it's way too much. The plus disk bosses are way more handle-able. Futo is a huge exception holy crud, but other than that. I can't speak too much for balance in Plus other than Futo because Nitori just trashed everything way too hard, and then the late bosses where Nitori is slightly less obscene seem... mostly not that bad. However it seems like a focus on many small, short, dangerous bosses, with some gimmicks sprinkled here and there. Which is kinda nice, actually. A lot of people commented that Spoiler: Winner is kind of -easy-, although at least in the full version it'll keep scaling up until you find a version that puts up a fight? I hope for a bit more out of the superbosses we'll see in the final patch. The infinite corridor fights were especially disappointing because their HP wasn't scaled properly. (It was only scaled for level, it seems, not for your heightened library values.- e.g. someone commented the 250f boss has roughly the same hp as the 100f boss, when at equivalent level.) When you're killing all the end bosses with 0~2 character losses in a game like this, it's definitely sort of disappointing. King has some presence, but his pressure mostly just comes from the fight having forced time limits between a party-one-shotter and a fullheal that you can totally avoid. It'd be interesting if the party-one-shotting move was less avoidable, considering Akyuu's invincibility and resurrection/guts/etc exist, along with his attack-up afterwards turning up the heat. I guess that would somewhat restrict party composition though, and that late in the game it starts to be a lot to ask people to possibly swap in other characters.

LonelyGaruga: --- Quote from: Serela on July 28, 2018, 02:40:32 AM ---- e.g. someone commented the 250f boss has roughly the same hp as the 100f boss, when at equivalent level.) --- End quote --- Ah yeah that was me. Going off the levels in Keine's Library (184), the bosses look like this. -100f boss: 8,041,183 -250f boss: 8,269,155 Though, I've no idea how the stats are calculated, so in practice the HP difference might be totally unalike. The levels shown in Keine's Library for Corridor bosses scales up with your progress in the Infinite Corridor, so I tried experimenting with that a little to see if I could figure out the HP scaling formula, and there was no really easy way to figure it out, it wasn't anything simple like "X * level" increases. I think that different level ranges have different scaling too, which further complicates things. As I recall, 3peso had to adjust Corridor enemy ATK/MAG at the higher levels twice (IIRC) because it was getting out of control. On the topic of base game's postgame, I didn't think it was that bad outside of The Great "C" (solely because in theory one could use Black Universe and another "C" Falling From The Sky to unavoidably defeat a character, but they're more likely to just repeatedly Black Universe the same character) and Guardian of the Crystals (and looking back at how I fought it, I see tons of room for improvement in my strategy, although I think it'd still be one of the harder bosses in the game), but admittedly I don't really remember it that well because I just beat the Shadow bosses without even considering trying to learn the fights and record them.

General_Milky: Adding in my 2 cents. I think Labyrinth 2 is the far better game overall, but it's missing some elements of the first game I dearly miss. Labyrinth 2 has (for my money, anyway) a far better roster of characters, many more interesting ways to use each one, and double at LEAST the amount of interesting strategic choices to make for each one via the Skills menu. Labyrinth 2 even goes the extra mile by making each and every character worth using at some point, I think in a typical unlimited playthrough of the game, I get legitimate, natural use out of every single member in the cast, until the plus disc characters anyway. In labyrinth 1, that used to never happen for me. It was so much more rigid, basic, and clear-cut who you should stay with and who was just kind of not worth it. What Labyrinth 2 lacks, however, is some of the brutal battles of the first game. Despite Labyrinth 2's much more complex and free system, or maybe even because of it, it's very rare to have a boss fight that actually poses a significant problem for you to get around. There are exceptions of course, and there are a few instances where the enemy strongarms you into a particular strategy that can be "fun" to figure out, but for the most part you can tackle any boss in 2 "easily" in a dozen different ways ore more, between all the characters, their skills, situational and permanent boosts, who has what items, subclasses as a whole... Labyrinth 1 ends up being harder to overwhelm just because you have significantly fewer options to power everyone up on your side, so if Labyrinth 1 has a gimmick fight, it's REALLY something you have to buckle down for and struggle through. 2 doesn't really have these. Especially apparent in the endgame, 2 more often than not has "stack ALL THE DAMAGE on 1-2 star players via every means necessary, and wipe." In the end, I'd rather play 2 any day, but labyrinth 1 still has a brutal appeal to it I wish carried over into 2 a bit more often. The closest Labyrinth 2 gets to feeling like the first game in my eyes, is the mirror/magatama battles on floor 12, and the final boss on floor 20.

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