Author Topic: Shooter games  (Read 156906 times)

nintendonut888

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Re: Shooter games
« Reply #150 on: September 30, 2009, 10:58:35 PM »
Something tells me the reason why Touhou gets a bad rep (from what I hear) among many shmup fans is that it's DESIGNED so that you can beat it without spending years of work. Like you said, if Touhou only gave you 5 lives to go through, lunatic may very well be arcade shmup difficulty.

Also even though I don't like Dodonpachi at all, I keep getting this sick urge to play Daioujou. Does MAME even run that?
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #151 on: September 30, 2009, 11:03:14 PM »
Touhou also gets some major criticism because of its rather unimaginative environments (substituting fancy backgrounds instead of actual landscape and scenery) and boring stages (let's face it, people play Touhou for the bosses and their danmaku). However, a lot of people don't seem to take into account that Touhou is all done by one guy and his more unique way of making games. If you want a doujin CAVE knockoff, play some of x.x's games, they're fantastic too.

Of course, Lunatic difficulties very rightfully can be considered as hard as an arcade shmup. I like to think of it in this sort of way-- if I can get to stage 4 of a game like Mushihimesama, and I can get to stage 4 on PCB Lunatic, they're similar in difficulty. And in all respects, Touhou Lunatic would be somewhat harder than an arcade shmup if it wasn't for the fact that Touhou shmups hand out so many extends.

Also, no. MAME does not run Daioujou. You can, if your computer can handle it, emulate using a PS2 emulator. And something tells me you do like DoDonPachi a little, or else you wouldn't be giving it this much attention.  :P
« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 11:06:49 PM by Matsuri »

nintendonut888

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Re: Shooter games
« Reply #152 on: September 30, 2009, 11:11:24 PM »
I am not tsundere, shut up. >_> And this computer is fairly new, but would it run a PS2 emulator...and more importantly would I care enough...?

The answer is clearly no. At least to the later.

And BTW, I think the stages in Touhou>the stages in any shmup you've given me. When you have to strain your brain to pick out differences between stages, something is wrong. IMO, Dodonpachi'd be much more fun if the stages didn't feel so copy/paste.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2009, 11:24:47 PM by nintendonut888 »
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #153 on: September 30, 2009, 11:24:55 PM »
Touhou also gets some major criticism because of its rather unimaginative environments (substituting fancy backgrounds instead of actual landscape and scenery) and boring stages (let's face it, people play Touhou for the bosses and their danmaku). However, a lot of people don't seem to take into account that Touhou is all done by one guy and his more unique way of making games. If you want a doujin CAVE knockoff, play some of x.x's games, they're fantastic too.

Of course, Lunatic difficulties very rightfully can be considered as hard as an arcade shmup. I like to think of it in this sort of way-- if I can get to stage 4 of a game like Mushihimesama, and I can get to stage 4 on PCB Lunatic, they're similar in difficulty. And in all respects, Touhou Lunatic would be somewhat harder than an arcade shmup if it wasn't for the fact that Touhou shmups hand out so many extends.

Also, no. MAME does not run Daioujou. You can, if your computer can handle it, emulate using a PS2 emulator. And something tells me you do like DoDonPachi a little, or else you wouldn't be giving it this much attention.  :P

I really do feel like Cave shmups are the polar opposite of Zun's shmups. The stages in Cave games are long- sometimes too long and the bosses in Dodonpachi are 1 trick ponies that fire bullshit at you right before they die. (Stage 2 boss and final boss) Zun's stages may not be all that (some are good, some are plain) but the boss fights are amazing.

Oh how I would kill to have a Touhou game that only gave you 3 extends- I always did feel like they gave you too many lives. Sure, that would mean I wouldn't have 1cc'ed a single lunatic, but it'd be be more challenging but still very fun to play.

Edit: Fixed that part when I talked about the bosses.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 03:20:54 AM by BoLaD »

Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #154 on: September 30, 2009, 11:36:30 PM »
I am not tsundere, shut up. >_> And this computer is fairly new, but would it run a PS2 emulator...and more importantly would I care enough...?

The answer is clearly no. At least to the later.

And BTW, I think the stages in Touhou>the stages in any shmup you've given me. When you have to strain your brain to pick out differences between stages, something is wrong. IMO, Dodonpachi'd be much more fun if the stages didn't feel so copy/paste.

Don't shoot the messenger-- I'm just telling you some of the stuff that I see on Shmups forum regarding Touhou. =<

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #155 on: October 01, 2009, 12:08:36 AM »
donut: depending on what bullets you're referring to, there are ways to destroy them.
- if you use a Laser-type ship, your laser goes through small destructible missiles (examples: Stage 1 boss' frontal shots after it has lost its side satellites; Stage 2 boss' side gunners)
- in stages 3 and 5 (and 2, before the tank midboss), certain enemies clear the bullets on the screen when they're destroyed; the more bullets they clear, the more points you gain

now, about chaining, there's one chain meter at the upper-left side of the screen, above your chain counter. It's a bar that goes down when you're not destroying/lasering enemies, and going up when you destroy enemies (either by shooting or lasering). If you're lasering enemies, the bar goes down up to a limit (the reason you see people avoiding -- most of the times -- the Power Up item before the midboss in stage 1, is because picking it will interrupt your laser, and most of the times this will interrupt your chain). When the lasered enemy is destroyed, the bar goes up a bit just like it would normally go after destroying an enemy. Chaining, say, 50 hits twice will yield less points than one chain of 100 hits. Boss Hits don't count (if I haven't said it already) for the 2nd-loop criteria.
neku: now for something important.
Translations.
How much time do you guys think it will take for HM to be translated? Besides everyone's story modes and the whole menus, there's also the fact that the way HM's programmed is different from all other games. I bet it'll take two months.

lusvik: I don't mind about playing HM in japanese. The language of punching other people is international.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
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Re: Shooter games
« Reply #156 on: October 01, 2009, 12:17:31 AM »
...Well, so much for my thoughts that the helicopter wasn't worth my time. I swear this guy is on steroids or something. In a game with so little precision compared to Touhou, how can these people be so perfect and flawless in their movements in the face of so much crap? And I haven't even seen the second loop in this video yet...I can't wait to see what's (hopefully) in store for me in the future.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #157 on: October 01, 2009, 12:27:37 AM »
It's very likely that the people doing the superplays have managed to optimize MAME for input lag, and are using their arcade sticks as well. That helps more than you'd think. These games aren't made for keyboards like Touhou is. I can't wait to get an HRAP EX for Mushi Futari. :P

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #158 on: October 01, 2009, 12:31:22 AM »
Or they're playing the actual PCB.

Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #159 on: October 01, 2009, 12:55:26 AM »
That too. :P

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
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Re: Shooter games
« Reply #160 on: October 01, 2009, 01:08:28 AM »
'kay, just finished watching that superplay.

Where's the suicide button mapped to? D:

Also that's so mean-spirited it's awesome. Even if you 1cc, the game still has to have the last laugh and send you off with GAME OVER. :P
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #161 on: October 01, 2009, 01:19:38 AM »
Heee. Now watch a Daioujou superplay or a Mushihimesama/Futari superplay. :P

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
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Re: Shooter games
« Reply #162 on: October 01, 2009, 01:41:49 AM »
*sigh* After watching that superplay and trying for myself, I wonder why I bother? I tried various things that superplay did, like standing still for the stage 5 boss' first attack, and it simply didn't work. The worst part is somehow the commander (what's his deal anyway? I've read up the plot of this game but I don't get him) saying "Nice try kid." It's like the game's patronizing me. >_<

Oh yeah, and my highest chain was 148. With C-S. I have no idea what I'm doing wrong.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 01:45:37 AM by nintendonut888 »
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #163 on: October 01, 2009, 01:47:03 AM »
You don't have to be the best at everything, you know. Just do what you can and work at getting better as you go.

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Shooter games
« Reply #164 on: October 01, 2009, 01:51:57 AM »
Oh, I know that. I never went into Touhou with the intentions of becoming so good, and frankly it scares me that I am. ._. I think I can equate my reasons for wanting to do this to why I beat SoEW extra (keep in mind that at the time there was one known clear of SoEW extra outside of Japan): To prove to myself that it's possible. Obviously this is much harder than that stage, but relative to my skills back then this is much the same. Except much longer and agonizing. And that rather than 1ccing I just want to second loop. The second loop is the whole reason I want to play anyway: I want to meet the infamous Hibachi for myself.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

moozooh

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Re: Shooter games
« Reply #165 on: October 01, 2009, 01:52:43 AM »
and the bosses are 1 trick ponies that fire bullshit at you right before they die. (Stage 2 boss and final boss)

This is somewhat misguided, assuming you've based this opinion on all of Cave's bosses and not just DoDonPachi. Cave bosses have 5-10 entirely different patterns that repeat in cycles or start at a certain damage percentage (now, if you count an average amount of different patterns with a Touhou boss, you aren't going much above that, if at all). They aren't very pretty or geometric, but they're more effective at killing you, and thus more challenging to dodge. In general, Touhou's Lunatic patterns are considerably easier to dodge than Cave's patterns. But it's not a problem because Touhou is about aggressive play that rewards putting oneself in dangers unnecessary for pure survival. However, there is one Touhou game that has a lot of patterns on par with Cave's level of difficulty in regards to dodging, and it's Shoot the Bullet. Actually, if you comprise a game entirely of StB's high-level patterns, you'll get yourself DoDonPachi DOJ Death Label #2 easily.
<nintendonut888> Mountain of Faith, or "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb."

Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #166 on: October 01, 2009, 02:05:10 AM »
Oh, I know that. I never went into Touhou with the intentions of becoming so good, and frankly it scares me that I am. ._. I think I can equate my reasons for wanting to do this to why I beat SoEW extra (keep in mind that at the time there was one known clear of SoEW extra outside of Japan): To prove to myself that it's possible. Obviously this is much harder than that stage, but relative to my skills back then this is much the same. Except much longer and agonizing. And that rather than 1ccing I just want to second loop. The second loop is the whole reason I want to play anyway: I want to meet the infamous Hibachi for myself.

Well in all honesty, a DoDonPachi 1-loop 1CC is quite an accomplishment in and of itself.

Also, Aki > Hibachi :V

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Shooter games
« Reply #167 on: October 01, 2009, 02:13:39 AM »
Meh, Aki actually looks very easy outside of that one attack. Or is that just another illusion of the superplay?

Also there needs to be Hibachi x Aki yaoi. :V Unless Aki isn't the bug thing.

BTW, I feel like I'm spamming. :<
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #168 on: October 01, 2009, 03:09:59 AM »
Major illusion. I've continuespammed my way to Aki and he is not as easy as he looks. Oh, and that final pattern is pretty much impossible unless you're some sort of expert, because you can't hurt him if you die or bomb, because he gets a shield for as long as you do, and actually sends a huge wave of bullshit bullets on top of the patterns if you shoot him while your shields are up.

And no, Aki isn't a bug, unless you count all characters in the game as bugs, including Reco, the 'insect princess'. *shrug*

I wonder if there's any PalmxAki incest yaoi...

And no, this isn't spam. It's discussion, and it's relevant. :V
« Last Edit: October 01, 2009, 03:13:16 AM by Matsuri »

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Shooter games
« Reply #169 on: October 01, 2009, 04:14:32 AM »
I did it! :D I second looped, I made it to Hibachi, and I KICKED HIS ASS!

Spoiler:
In Donpachi. God, what a waste of an hour >_>
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #170 on: October 01, 2009, 04:19:59 AM »
1CCing the first loop of DonPachi isn't anything to be ashamed of either =<

nintendonut888

  • So those that live now, pledge on your fists and souls
  • Leave a sign of your life, no matter how small...
Re: Shooter games
« Reply #171 on: October 01, 2009, 04:27:25 AM »
1cc...Donpachi...? BAH HA HA HA HA HA. No. I'm not EVEN going to try that. I seriously feel less like living after playing all ten areas.
nintendonut888: Hey Baity. I beat the high score for Sanae B hard on the score.dat you sent me. X3
Baity: For a moment, I thought you broke 1.1billion. Upon looking at my score.dat, I can assume that you destroyed the score that is my failed (first!) 1cc attempt on my first day of playing. Congratulations.

[19:42] <Sapz> I think that's the only time I've ever seen a suicide bullet shoot its own suicide bullet

trancehime

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Re: Shooter games
« Reply #172 on: October 01, 2009, 02:36:10 PM »
1cc...Donpachi...? BAH HA HA HA HA HA. No. I'm not EVEN going to try that. I seriously feel less like living after playing all ten areas.

Well at least now I know I'm better at Donut at something.

Sadly they do not involve the words "Touhou" and "Windows" in the same sentence. :V

Alright, all jokes aside, first loops aren't TOO bad, but really, you will tear your hair out if you even want to 1cc the entire damn thing from start to finish. 1cc'ing the first loop sounds terrible enough (the best I could muster was a 2cc of Dodonpachi on my first few tries, but then I managed a 1cc soon enough) but seriously 1cc'ing the second loop is a royal pain in the ass :/

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Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #173 on: October 01, 2009, 03:11:34 PM »
I don't even intend to get to the second loop of any of the DonPachi series. One is enough for me. xD

Besides, working on 1CCs of Mushihimesama Maniac and ESPGaluda is ideal, because neither of them loop.  :P

moozooh

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Re: Shooter games
« Reply #174 on: October 01, 2009, 05:10:26 PM »
Watch Battle Garegga WR holder KET play Battle Garegga (and some other games occasionally):
http://www.ustream.tv/channel/garelab

People said he played Mountain of Faith once, and I remember him streaming Perfect Cherry Blossom music on a couple occasions.
<nintendonut888> Mountain of Faith, or "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb."

Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #175 on: October 01, 2009, 05:14:00 PM »
How do you unlock all the extra stuff in Garegga? I might be willing to give it a second chance. Might.

Bakraid will always be better though

moozooh

  • Your grandfather
    • Touhou world record tracker
Re: Shooter games
« Reply #176 on: October 01, 2009, 05:25:56 PM »
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=351
http://www.world-of-arcades.net/R8zing/Battle_Garegga/BGaregga.htm
There's also Zakk's patch that unlocks Mahou characters.

Also, Bakraid's scoring system makes Mushihimesama's feel intuitive.
<nintendonut888> Mountain of Faith, or "How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb."

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #177 on: October 01, 2009, 06:07:46 PM »
I don't know if I'm weird for saying this, but I find Garegga's score system more appealing than Bakraid's.

Matsuri

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #178 on: October 01, 2009, 07:47:29 PM »
I don't care as much about scoring in Raizing games than I do CAVE games, so I just play them for fun more than anything-- and if I get a good score, that's cool with me too.

I did play a little bit with the Mahou Daisakusen characters, and the game is a little more... dare I say, fun. :P

Re: Shooter games
« Reply #179 on: October 01, 2009, 10:49:29 PM »
RAHHHHHHHHHHHHH! THIS STAGE 5 BOSS IS SO RAGE INDUCING. I'M TALKING ABOUT OVERHEAT YOURSELF, POP A BLOOD VESSEL RAGE. (I haven't popped a blood vessel yet but I've almost overheated myself) Ugh... I seriously need to take a break, but I want a 1cc of this game before the end of the weekend.