Star Wars Episode VIII: My favorite Star War is that gay robot

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Mеа:

--- Quote from: commandercool on December 18, 2017, 03:02:31 AM ---Spoiler: See I was way into the Sith funhouse mirror. I think it may have been my favorite moment in the movie. The way I see it, it shows Rey that she can resist the dark side because it doesn't offer her anything she wants. She has a question that needs answering and the dark side just isn't about that. It's so self-centered that all it has to offer her is introspection, which she doesn't need. So she can resist it in favor of the light side, which is all about "knowledge and defense", emphasis on the knowledge.
--- End quote ---
Spoiler: hmm that's a good take on it, haven't considered that. It's interesting then because this is the first time that someone's considered falling to the darkside for something as 'pure'(?) as wanting a parental figure in your life. And also interesting that despite her willingness to go that far, the dark side has nothing to offer on that end. Really pretty interesting actually. Wish it was made clearer to me at least. I was gonna say that I wish they brought it up again when Rey finally refused Kylo's offer to join him in his new rule, but now that I think about it, that had nothing to do with the Dark side or anything. Kylo wasn't all "join the dark side and rule the galaxy", it was just "I value you, let's do this sort-of-evil thing together". The Sith seem to be gone almost as much as the Jedi are at this point.

--- Quote ---Spoiler: I would argue that there are two twists. The resistance story basically ends with Poe's plan being a total failure and the revelation that Admiral Holdo was basically right the whole time. In a Star Wars movie the crazy scheme that involves doing a bunch of unlikely stunts always works, so Poe getting smacked down by reality and realizing that maybe he doesn't have all the answers after all is kind of a big deal.
Spoiler: I guess it's pointless in the sense that they didn't win but they didn't really lose either, but it's not pointless in the sense that the resistance does not return to status quo at the end of the movie. They lose their entire fleet, almost their entire membership, and find out that their allies have abandoned them. So they're definitely in a different place in the last scene than they were in the first.
--- End quote ---
Spoiler: Technically yes, they lost their entire fleet and the (main) Rebel team is on their last ropes (only sort of, since they still have a lot of allies in the outer rim apparently), but from a narrative perspective nothing really changes for me. The main main cast doesn't change, or their position and what not. The scenario is still the same, with the First Order, the 'Empire', hounding down the comparatively pathetic Rebel forces, that's not changed. Not that it's got to change but we had this same scenario in the original trilogy so I would expect something to be different by this point at least. In 5, Han was frozen and captured, Luke suffered a big defeat and had his arm cut off, not to mention the big reveal of his dad which changed the dynamic of the whole story and what direction it could lead to. The big dynamic changing deal in this one is the First Order switching hands from Snook to Kylo and we still don't know what's gonna happen to him so it's a little hard to judge now but. He's gonna make or break this trilogy he is, Kylo. He's the one gripping the plot steering wheel now. And that's what I meant by pointless, that it didn't take the story in any new direction. I feel like subverting the crazy 0% odds shenanigans is about all it did. And of course, it could turn out that this switching of reins into Kylo's hands is a huuge deviation game changer in the story, but that'll have to be something to determine in hindsight after the trilogy concludes.

Stuffman:
Just got back. I'll be honest, I really loved it, the movie is full of intensity, a handful of dumb bits aren't enough to ruin it for me. But then, I allow my suspension of disbelief to go a lot farther than most people.

Scattered thoughts:
Spoiler: - There are a few gags that are a little too flippant for my tastes, like Luke just tossing away his lightsaber. I expect Star Wars to have at least a little class.
- I don't think anyone will disagree the whole codebreaker business was completely out of place, the only interesting thing about it was how the plan failed. I do like Rose though.
- I am really really disappointed that they aren't doing anything with Chewie as a character. He really didn't go out to interact with Luke the whole time he was on that island? I know the audience can't tell what he's saying, but come on, it shouldn't be that hard to characterize him. (Also I will forgive the birds since I'm sure they were ordered by some Disney exec for merchandise purposes.)
- While I do enjoy the prospect of repeated Finn/Phasma dustups, I was a bit annoyed that they just trotted her out to have them fight rather than it being anything proactive on her part. In the next movie I want Phasma to show up and wreck Finn's shit at the worst possible moment.
- I was cackling with glee when I realized what Holdo was up to. Too bad she didn't have the idea sooner.
- I was 100% certain Luke would die in this movie so no surprises there. I couldn't be happier that they gave him a DBZ moment as part of his sendoff.
- I am pretty sad Kylo didn't do a face turn. Lost opportunity. But then they'd have needed to establish a new villain, so I guess they didn't have much choice. It's not all bad, since it's rare to see such an emotionally-driven villain.

commandercool:
So do we think Spoiler: Snoke is actually gone from the story? This whole thing smacks of some kind of scheme. My best guess is that his plan was to let Rey and Kylo fight it out and then steal the body of whoever won, possibly by goading them into killing him and then having his spirit jump into their body. I don't think he intended to die like he did, but maybe he ended up splitting his essence between the two of them because he was getting ready to possess one of them or something? I think he probably still exists in some kind of form and is going to reappear at some point. Maybe he'll be a ghost haunting Rey in the next movie while Luke is a ghost haunting Kylo or something.

Not sure if having him pop back up would be cool or lame, but I feel like the plan is that he'll resurface a little eventually. Probably not as the main villain or anything, but as an obstacle someone has to overcome.

MatsuriSakuragi:
Spoiler: I'm fine with him being dead, honestly. Having him be the big bad in the next movie would steal Kylo Ren's opportunity to really shine as a villain in his most intense form as the true final bad guy of the main series. I didn't really find Snoke interesting and more just a plot device, so he's better off dead now than expanded upon in the next movie. I feel like it'd be filler by that point.

Mеа:
Spoiler: Like with many things, if Snoke was going to be an interesting character, this was the movie to do it in. But I also was super expecting him to come back to life after being split in half and laugh at Kylo's futile attempt at his life. Which, didn't happen, and surprised me a little that he just stayed dead and the plot moved on without him. Like Matsuri says, I do hope that Kylo stays the main villain since he's the most interesting one. I do think that they may need to bring Snoke back in some form to help explain how he influenced Kylo's corruption in the first place which is pretty important. Kylo's whole downfall right now was hinged on that pivotal moment when Luke almost tried to kill him and we need more context on that from Kylo's perspective to really understand his character. Stars wars has the nice precedent so far of setting up a galactic conflict in the first two movies and winding it down to a more intimate, personal confrontation in the finale of the trilogy, so I hope this is a road they cross.

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