~Hakurei Shrine~ > Touhou Addict Recovery Center
Is Yukari and Okina sisters?
Drake:
--- Quote from: Tiamat on August 15, 2017, 06:37:38 PM ---I suspect Okina's insistent terminology that she be called a God and not a Youkai is ZUN's attempt to reconcile it. It's possible ZUN originally intended them all to be youkai, but then changed his mind, and thus threw in that dialogue with Reimu and Okina where Reimu keeps referring to Okina as a youkai and Okina keeps insisting she be called a God instead in order to explain why they were called the youkai sages, basically indirectly making the in-universe reason for "Youkai sages" being that some people like Reimu refer to even gods as youkai in some cases.
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Most of what I'm reading there is just that Okina caused an incident much like a youkai, and their logic for all of this is unintelligible to Reimu, who has recently been known for saying things like "I can't understand youkai at all", so this is more of that. I don't think it should be that difficult for people to believe some gods may have played a part in Gensokyo's establishment.
--- Quote from: Tiamat on August 15, 2017, 06:37:38 PM ---Hmm, I'm trying to find where the deal with the underground youkai was said to be done by the sages (as opposed to just Yukari), in order to see what they were called there, but I can't find any reference to that at all. Was my memory wrong again? Bah.
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Yuugi says 地上の賢者達 in ReimuB dialogue.
Tiamat:
--- Quote from: Tengukami on August 15, 2017, 06:42:31 PM ---It is, and I understand. FWIW, I consider it among the best theories to have arisen from the fandom and one I cite when talking to other people about the creative power of this fandom.
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Thanks ^_^
--- Quote ---Yuugi says 地上の賢者達 in ReimuB dialogue.
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Wow, all the various search terms I was trying didn't turn that up at all. Thanks! Guess my memory was correct after all. I was starting to worry I was going senile.
--- Quote from: Drake on August 16, 2017, 01:48:08 AM ---Most of what I'm reading there is just that Okina caused an incident much like a youkai, and their logic for all of this is unintelligible to Reimu, who has recently been known for saying things like "I can't understand youkai at all", so this is more of that. I don't think it should be that difficult for people to believe some gods may have played a part in Gensokyo's establishment.
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That's definately the in-story context. That it's logical that som gods also played a part in Gensokyo's establishment is true too, but I figured ZUN might not have considered that when he originally called them the "youkai sages". Reimu's confusing of the term (even if just because Okina's incident was similar to what a youkai would have done) conveniently explains why they might sometimes be called the "youkai sages" despite how Okina's... well, not a youkai.
If that's the case, ZUN probably decided that at least one god should be part of the group instead of exclusively youkai a while ago, since they''re now referred to as the "Sages of Gensokyo" in WaHH (possibly even earlier since it's just "sages" in Yuugi's dialogue).
Are gods referred to as youkai elsewhere? My memory on that subject is blurry. I guess there's always instead the possibility that maybe Akyuu and the public simply didn't know some of the "youkai sages" were not actually youkai, especially since Okina is a god of secrets.
Clarste:
--- Quote from: Tiamat on August 16, 2017, 02:10:47 AM ---Are gods referred to as youkai elsewhere? My memory on that subject is blurry. I guess there's always instead the possibility that maybe Akyuu and the public simply didn't know some of the "youkai sages" were not actually youkai, especially since Okina is a god of secrets.
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In UFO, Byakuren argues that gods and youkai are the same thing, just that one is unfairly persecuted.
Anyway, I think it's fairly clear in retrospect that PMiSS was written with the next few works already in mind, which is why it foreshadows things like Youkai Mountain, kappa, celestials, etc. This includes WaHH too, since it talks about hermits and more importantly sages. I think we can say with some certainty that he'd already planned the Kasen reveal when he created her character, so in that sense, the "youkai sages" originally referred to only Yukari and Kasen. However, now we're long since past the point where PMiSS was foreshadowing, and he's drifted towards "sages of Gensokyo/the surface."
andykhang:
Speaking of Okina's godhood...Is there even a thing as a Youkai God, an oxymoron that is? If so, with so many title Okina claim to have, is it possible that she's also be one?
Edit: Also, Youkai could turn into god, and vice-versa...so the Youkai/God boundary thing is abit loose here.
PK:
Also aren't the kishin "oni gods"?