~Hakurei Shrine~ > Touhou Projects

Legends of an Eastern Wonderland - A Magic: the Gathering Touhou set (take two)

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Roonerspism: --- Quote from: KennyMan666 on August 18, 2017, 10:45:47 AM ---Quite possible. Balancing burn spells is probably not my strong side. Made it more expensive, at least. I tried to make some things, namely the sparks, more interesting than just straight burn by giving them X costs, but I might have gone overboard with that. So maybe I should rethink them. Master Spark should be the baseline, Double Spark slightly weaker but do two things and Twilight Spark a more expensive, souped-up version. If they're going to have X costs, maybe they should just hit creatures - I mostly liked the flavour of a big fuckoff beam piercing through the creature line and hitting the controller in the face as well. --- End quote --- I went to bed thinking of giant laser beams (as usual) and I reminded myself of Bonfire of the Damned, which does actually do Twilight Spark's effect at mythic-rare for XR, although Miracle is hard to rely on compared to Deathbomb. So if Twilight Spark was Sorcery and the non-deathbomb cost was XXR, it would still be better than that card (and I believe Bonfire of the Damned was already pretty great even in constructed) but there would be precedent. --- Quote ---So if you're questioning why the card is called that[...] --- End quote --- Oh, cool. --- Quote ---And here I didn't want to seem like I was playing favourites by making my favourite Touhou too stronk. She was blank for the longest time, I knew I wanted her to make dolls though. And throw ing dolls for direct damage seemed red to me. So how2balance? Hm. --- End quote --- Oh, if anything people would assume you're really in to all of the new characters. Alice is your favourite and she's friends with the actual coolest characters, so I'll do a deeper analysis of set balance beginning with her. Bitterblossom is a hell of a card. It comes up in the Vintage Cube a lot - anyone in black will heavily consider picking it up. The Stacks player (if they exist) is especially interested, which I only mention because I love anyone who drafts Stacks. Alice has various upsides and downsides over this card, but I'd say she's about as good as it. She could find a home in Vintage Cube. You'd have to start tearing out functionality pretty hard to get her down to, say, the usual level of a limited-playable uncommon: She makes one doll on enters-the-battlefield. She makes one doll per turn with spell circle. She can't throw them. (4 power, 3 toughness for 4 mana, and some of it flies. Neat. I'd pick it.) But is that the best course of action? Well, if you're making a set that's supposed to be balanced for limited, probably. "If a card can run away with the game on its own, it has to be rare or mythic", "You already have a bunch of big powerful cards, so increasing her cost/rarity and keeping her this strong is off the table". These rules* are ones that you're ignoring on purpose, to make a more fun and exciting set, right? But you follow them sometimes, to make the set feel more legitimate? I hope I'm not misunderstanding what you said earlier about the origins of these cards. And then, because of all of that, uncommons like this show up and I don't know whether it needs a huge nerf to get in line (with cards like Merlin - she really sticks out in my mind for some reason) or whether it can remain as is because everything's just kind of powerful around these parts. At any rate, Alice is near the top of any reasonable scale of Magic card power levels, unlike the 6 or so of them that I've called out as above the top of that scale. She could be nerfed a bit, she could be nerfed a lot. It's hard to tell. *(that I just made up, although based on my own study in set design, but you get what I mean) This took a while. I'm taking a small break then checking out some green cards.

Roonerspism: --- Quote from: KennyMan666 on August 18, 2017, 06:38:29 PM ---Focus has a number of issues, the two chief ones being that keywording a pumping effect is... questionable, and I'm not sure that the way it's currently written ever makes it worth actually using. --- End quote --- Man, WotC kind of came over and ate your lunch with Exert, huh? You're right that Focus is rarely worth using, but only because of your opponent respecting the threat of Focus. It's not like they'll do a bad block and dare you to spend mana to kill their blocker for free. Focus X is weird, but I think I like it? If anyone was ever stupid enough to block this card, my thoughts would start racing. "Do I flush in all of my mana, expecting a combat trick, or do I do nothing because they would only do this if they had a kill spell ready anyway?" It could lead to some really cool bluff moments. --- Quote --- --- End quote --- Oh, this card's cool. --- Quote ---Anyway. Focus is the one that's most up for a redesign. I've been considering making it use +1/+1 counters instead so it could build up over time - either just making it static, so that you may choose to add a +1/+1 counter whenever it becomes blocked and then it doesn't untap, or keep the value and cost and add a variable number of +1/+1 counters, still with the not untapping. That would technically more be getting power items rather than focusing, but Focus is a good name. Bleh. --- End quote --- Yep, agreed. I had hoped I'd think of something cool for you over the course of my post, but I didn't. --- Quote ---But talking about counters segways us nicely into the big green enchantment: --- End quote --- That first ability should have a "may". I'm not sure how it would even resolve as written, because I might have no creatures in hand and it doesn't say "or reveal your hand if you can't". --- Quote ---Other than that, green is good at making creatures grow. --- End quote --- Dango Influence suuuucks, i hate sorcery speed pump, i want to go home, someone let me off Well, it could probably be officially printed as-is, but it seems weak-ish even for limited. If you want to buff it, don't just make it instant. Or do, but it would be kind of a boring way to improve it, right? Slash of the Eternal Future is weird. Only pumping power makes its usefulness a bit narrow (Like, it only really gets you value if it turns a "body check" - a block where neither creature dies - in to a kill) and also makes it colour-bleed in to red a bit. Designing good pump spells is hard. --- Quote ---Someone who got to inspire a number of spells mostly because I found good pictures to use for them. --- End quote --- Parsee herself is really, really cool. Green-Eyed Invisible Monster - How many creatures do you think your opponent is going to control!? This could be +X/+X, I think. Shiro's Ashes - Fine as is, but can it be reworked to be "when an opponent taps a land for mana"? Like with Mana Drain's templating, or something. Let's lean right in to the theme. Large Box and Small Box - Oh, what is it now!? The Sneak Attack alarm is going off. I have a lot of Magic-related alarms in my house. This should probably be Sorcery. Also, there's a bunch of ways this card can go very wrong in real Magic (Blightsteel Collosus, anything super-huge + Flicker) or maybe just give unreasonable value (my good friend Griselbrand, Sundering Titan). Be careful out there when designing your own huge creatures. While I'm saying "haw haw what if they were all based on jealousy of your opponent", this card would be cooler and less abusable if it was "opponent reveals hand, you sneak attack with one of their creatures". But that comes with its own problems (colour bleed in to black, how would you even balance the cost, sometimes it whiffs and you feel bad) --- Quote ---Also, introducing who probably is the strongest stage 1 boss in the whole set. --- End quote --- I like these cards. --- Quote --- --- End quote --- I'm not sure how I feel about Letty... one of those cards that's either too good or too bad depending on what's going on. Aww man, I found some burn that was way too strong and some absurd countering and ridiculous removal... but your ramp creatures are basically reasonable. You even remembered to say that the forest has to be untapped for Minoriko. This sucks. Does every Faithbound card need to have such high colour requirements? I mean, I say that but I can't really think of which ones I'd change. Just something to think about. --- Quote --- --- End quote --- Be wary of infinite combos, if you're not going to say "non-token" here. --- Quote ---The Powerful Green Planeswalker - Yuuka. --- End quote --- Master: The two abilities don't feel strong... The 0's fine, but it doesn't help me kill my opponent on its own, so it feels bad even though it's balanced. The +1... ramping from 5-6 to 7-8 is useful for some decks, I suppose... I can't get excited or scared about this card in quite the same way I can for your other rares. Maiden: Okay, one ramp ability on a planeswalker is fine, but two? Surely this is overkill. Even so, I would probably be happier playing this planeswalker than the other one, just as a draw engine. --- Quote --- (tbh that last one is a mess) --- End quote --- I was honestly surprised to find "Ouphe" on the MTG wiki. When you put Roc Fist right after Rabies Bite like that, it makes me think "haha Trampletouch will be pretty easy to achieve in this set" and also "Roc Fist seems a little overcosted". My logic being that Rabies bite even on a small creature makes a safe block on them impossible (deathtouch) and a one creature trade unlikely (+3/+3), whereas Roc Fist says "if you don't control the biggest creature, this spell won't really help". Lure effects on common cards is a little dangerous, but apparently it's happened before. Putting a lure on an opponent's creature to force it to attack is going to be very funny when it backfires horribly. That last card is a mess.

KennyMan666: --- Quote ---Man, WotC kind of came over and ate your lunch with Exert, huh? --- End quote --- Heh, I hadn't considered that before, but I guess Exert really kind of is the current incarnation of Focus but done better. So the alternatives for Focus I guess would be: Focus n - <cost> (Whenever this creature becomes blocked, you may pay <cost> to put n +1/+1 counters on it. If you do, it does not untap during your next untap step.) Focus n (Whenever this creature becomes blocked, you may put n +1/+1 counters on it. If you do, it does not untap during your next untap step.) Focus (Whenever this creature becomes blocked, you may put a +1/+1 counter on it. If you do, it does not untap during your next untap step.) --- Quote ---Does every Faithbound card need to have such high colour requirements? I mean, I say that but I can't really think of which ones I'd change. Just something to think about. --- End quote --- Well - they've mostly been costed by more or less considering what mana cost they'd regularly have, and then turning one generic mana into one coloured mana. While I'm sure there might be some dumb reason to do it anyway, the idea is that you won't play those creatures unless you control at least one Shrine - so they'll cost one less mana. And if you manage to keep up multiple Shrines, your reward is that you get to play deities for really cheap. That said, they should probably cost at least one mana, so Shizuha's 1GG now. Okay, there's Junko and Chang'e, but at the point you're keeping enough Shrines alive to cast them for free, you should probably have won the game several turns ago anyway. --- Quote ---Be wary of infinite combos, if you're not going to say "non-token" here. --- End quote --- Changed that to nontoken. --- Quote ---Trampletouch will be pretty easy to achieve in this set --- End quote --- I mean, you can do it for a lot cheaper than with those two, if you're playing Green/Black... Beauty of Nature is getting a redesign. Next bunch of posts are going to be about the remaining odds and ends that don't fit into any of the five colours specifically.

KennyMan666: Colourless Well - a few things left. You'd think that primary among them would be multicolour, but we're starting on the other end - the colourless cards. There's not a lot of them - since when I say "colourless", I don't mean artifacts. The most known colourless creatures in regular Magic would be the Eldrazi, and, weeeeeell... Yeah. Then there's a card that I made once upon a time that I don't know if it even has a point anymore because I don't think it's ever worth playing and has been redesigned like three times, and a card that... might maybe be worth using. I don't know. Might also just be a pointless common you'd never want to open. I am realizing that Invocation might be redesignable into a colourless entry in the large Enchantment cycle. And speaking of cycles! I also mentioned we were only almost done with the cycles. So here's the two colourless entries in them. Or one-and-a-half. So Kedama was meant to be the colourless entry in the common small fry enemy cycle. It ended up being not quite that and I have my doubts about its current version. And then we have the colourless Wizard instant - which leads me to our next bit. Multicolour I'm sure you've wondered when the payoff for all those Wizard spells is going to come, and the answer to that question is right now. So that, and introducing us to the multicoloured section, is one of two engines of a theoretical Wizard deck - and it is of course... We've seen six Wizard spells so far, six Wizard instants. That's not all of them, though. Two engines, I said. The other one would be this here little thing that doesn't technically concern itself specifically with Wizard spells, but... It actually used to have a requirement of paying WUBRG at your upkeep or it'd be sacrificed. I did remove that but I'm realizing it might need some kind of way to deliberately destroy it to trigger that ability. Also not part of a cycle, but this is what the Prismrivers lead up to. Some multicoloured deities. Hecatia is... a thing. I'm not sure it's worth all that effort to make sure only 3 can exist at one time. Might rejigger her some. Shiki got some spells, too. Then, well... there's not a whole lot thematically connected left in the multicolours. Auras. Creatures. Spells. And last but not least, here's Mamizou's best friend. Two more categories to deal with - we'll get into those tomorrow.

Roonerspism: --- Quote from: KennyMan666 on August 19, 2017, 06:49:02 PM ---Colourless I also mentioned we were only almost done with the cycles. So here's the two colourless entries in them. Or one-and-a-half. --- End quote --- Costing two then refunding one, when it's all colourless so it can't fix your mana or anything like that, is weird - it doesn't do anything (I think?) and it makes it fit the cycle less. I think this card wouldn't be too powerful if you just let people play it on turn one by making it cost one without the refund. --- Quote ---Multicolour [All of Patchouli's spells are basically fine] --- End quote --- Even in constructed it seems like wishful thinking to say "I'm gonna make the big Wizard spells deck" but also with enough enchantments and ways to protect a creature to get Patchouli's Spell Circle working. Normally I wouldn't mention it, because when I see a creature's Spell Circle I'm thinking "Pfft that'll never happen, but I guess it's a nice bonus if it does" but in this case specifically the Spell Circle is kind of what holds the card together. The fixing is weak (for a creature you paid anywhere between Domain and 8 mana for), the stats are weak (making getting value off Declare less likely), the Proliferate on Wizard spells is difficult to set up uses for - but it gets easier with the Spell Circle. So this card could be stronger? At least, it could be redesigned to take some power out of the Spell Circle and put it back in to the base-level card - even something as simple as increasing the cost on the tutor but buffing her stats or something. --- Quote ---Also not part of a cycle, but this is what the Prismrivers lead up to. --- End quote --- It's strange how if you were playing a Prismriver-themed deck, this card can do their abilities better than they can - so if you had both them and this in play they would just kind of become textless creatures. Changing the abilities to be different would sacrifice flavour for balance, though. Hmmm... --- Quote --- --- End quote --- Oh god watch out, a rules lawyer is about to jump out of my body and start being a big jerk bluuaarrgh Does Faithbound U/B actually work? "I control 4 shrines, so-" "So she costs 1UUBB. There's no U/B mana to get rid of." It's a new mechanic in a set that won't really be played by Magic turbo-nerds, so even in the worst case you can probably just say "Yes it does work, because I say so." The templating on her enters the battlefield ability bothered me (and there was another card back in white with this problem, I think?) When a permanent does two things on ETB, you have to template it as "When ~ ETBs, draw a card, then target player discards a card." The token doesn't have power or toughness. Whoops. Also, isn't the token missing two abilities if the only change is supposed to be that it's not legen- ow ow ow OW okay, okay, I'm leaving geez --- Quote ---[Suwako and Eiki are cool. Suwako has the same hybrid mana "problem" that Hecatia does] Hecatia is... a thing. I'm not sure it's worth all that effort to make sure only 3 can exist at one time. Might rejigger her some. --- End quote --- Oh, right - I should maybe talk about that and her balance, too, now that the rules lawyer is gone. Her ETB is pretty strong, and the tap ability gives me the ability to keep doing it at instant speed! Main phase and combat phase discard is nice until your opponent becomes empty-handed, but instant speed discard can be done on your opponent's draw step! So limiting the copies of herself she can make is important - being able to say "If you ever become empty-handed (good luck avoiding that, I control a discard engine), you never draw anything again unless you can play it on your draw step" is pretty crazy, and being able to maybe pull it off twice is already very powerful. If you decide to rework her, make sure that the other player is allowed to draw cards. --- Quote --- --- End quote --- Hahaha you can entwine it. Not only that, but I can think of some non-3P scenarios where you'd want to do it, too. Anyway that's funny, but quit printing one-sided Wraths of God, damn it! This only costs one extra mana over it, too! If you really want to kill everything your opponent controls, it costs 9 mana. Okay, if you're committed to three colours and only need one survivor on your end, then it costs 7 mana sometimes. Duneblast can get kind of nuts. Exiling all creatures is even stronger (6 mana for Final Judgement, compared to Wrath of God at 4), and I can't seem to find any card that does a one-sided exile all creatures. So you're exploring new design space, and that's cool, but the design space around here seems to cost about 10 mana. --- Quote ---[There were a couple of huge auras here. I love 'em.] Creatures. --- End quote --- Clownpiece is pretty good - compares to your good friend and mine, Hypnotic Specter. She's probably not broken, but I'd keep my eye out. Tewi is pretty good - compares to your good friend and mine, Shadowmage Infiltrator. She's a 1/1 in a removal-heavy set, it'll probably be fine. Sumireko - Declare kind of sucks on low toughness, no evasion creatures. Yeah, I attack and block with these creatures sometimes, but it's hard to be able to say "I'm so confident in the fact that this creature will attack and block more than once (or god, at least once hopefully) that I'm willing to bet a card on it, one turn in advance." On this expensive and important creature, I'd never do it. I really like Raiko's design! --- Quote --- --- End quote --- stop it stop it stop it Well yeah okay Exiled Doll doesn't just kill everything like those other cards I hate do - there's some pretty big ladies strutting around Gensokyo who can survive an extinction event for everyone weaker than 5/3* - but this card could still probably be more expensive or just hit all players for once Nue's cool. She might dilute the colours a bit in a draft, though - I could be drafting green/white and still basically be fine playing her for 6. *That's how it works, right? I entwine, I choose that the -2/-2 happens first, then we check power?

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