Author Topic: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure  (Read 254415 times)

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #870 on: August 22, 2017, 04:21:11 AM »
> Can command seals be simply relinquished, in the event that we can't get them from him? (I'm not sure how a surrender would play out.)

>This is a fuzzy area that hasn't been well explored. You know that the church could do it. But they are questionable entity in this event.

>_

Stuffman

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #871 on: August 22, 2017, 09:22:03 PM »
So is it just taken for granted in Grail Wars that the masters are going to get killed, even though their deaths serve no practical purpose?

Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #872 on: August 22, 2017, 09:54:05 PM »
I think it's pretty common, generally speaking. And the thing is, there actually is a practical purpose to them being dead. As I understand it, even without a Servant, a Master remains a potential Master and there are ways in which they could reacquire a servant and get back into the game - something which happened multiple times in F/SN and F/Zero alone. Koch in particular might easily be able to convince someone else to sell him their servant - it didn't work on us, but there's plenty of people $20 million (or even more, if he's more desperate) would work on, and then suddenly he's a major threat again who already knows who we are and many of the capabilities of our Servant (while we might know none of his). There are means to forcibly take someone else's command seals and Servant too (which we don't know and he probably doesn't, but theoretically could gain access to).

Basically, leaving another Master alive is always a kind of security risk and it's a matter of how you rate their likelihood of wishing you harm and likelihood of having the resources to make good on this. I'm all for Lily trying to be as non-murderous as possible, and sparring / attempting to ally with anyone where this seems like a reasonably doable idea, but I don't trust very much of what Koch said to us in the limo and he's already (unlike most masters are likely to) demonstrated plenty about his character outside the game itself and the picture isn't a good one.

Stuffman

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #873 on: August 23, 2017, 03:30:44 AM »
Well! Seeing as there's no practical way to get rid of his command seals, guess we have no choice but to murder the evil billionaire CEO!



It would probably be unethical to try to wring any information out of him knowing we're going to kill him anyway, so I think the best thing to do is just have Archer make it as quick and painless as possible. Right between the eyes.

> Struggle to come up with fitting one-liner before we kill him.

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #874 on: August 23, 2017, 03:36:06 AM »
> Struggle to come up with fitting one-liner before we kill him.

>You resolve to end it now. You just need the right thing to say, something to really ram home what a shit he is...
>Archer continues ahead as the parachute finally vanishes behind some buildings a couple blocks away. ?He won?t get far,? Archer says. ?I?ll let you take the lead once we find him, I?ll just be ready for anything nasty.?
>You continue on for a block and a half. Then you see a figure emerge from some trees ahead, coming out into the illuminated circle of a streetlight near an outdoor cafe that has closed for the day. He is clearly an older man, and very clearly dressed in a fine suit. He seems a bit disoriented. ?That?s him,? Archer says, as she sets you down.
>The two of you approach him, when some motion from the side catches your eye. ?Look out!? Archer cries, as the air around you seems to take on a kind of heaviness. Looking toward the movement, you see a smallish, thin man languidly standing standing up from one of the seats; was he always there?! Dressed in close-fitting black clothing, your eyes are immediately drawn to the half-mask that he wears, shaped like a skull. His lower face is exposed, revealing pale white skill and a thin mustache. Then your eyes are drawn to the gun he smoothly draws. It is a pistol, looking somewhere between antiquated and modern. In the back of your mind, you know you should be doing something, anything, but you can only watch.
>The gunshot is almost too quiet, just a sort of soft crack. You can almost imagine you see the bullet streaking through the air. It strikes Charles firmly in the chest, and the old man crumples to the ground with nary a sound, falling back a few feet from the force of the impact. You can feel a sort of wrenching sensation in the pit of your stomach, as if the world had just tilted on its axis. Then suddenly you can hear the background noises of the city again, as the man in black turns and runs the direction that Charles had just appeared from.

>_

Stuffman

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #875 on: August 23, 2017, 03:52:16 AM »
> YIKES

like, from a pragmatic standpoint we should probably chase him, especially because we were lucky enough to see Assassin expose himself, but back-to-back fights is nerve-wracking as hell, and we should also consider getting back to our car before Berserker starts wandering this way...

> How are we and Archer feeling, energy/mana wise? We know she was slightly injured earlier.

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #876 on: August 23, 2017, 03:57:25 AM »
> YIKES
> How are we and Archer feeling, energy/mana wise? We know she was slightly injured earlier.

>It takes you a moment to even realize you can move again! That sort of axis-tilting feeling is still with you...
>You can't vouch too much for Archer. As for yourself, this is the most active day you've had in ages. You're unhurt, though a bit roughed up, and still have a respectable amount of mana.

>_

Stuffman

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #877 on: August 23, 2017, 04:37:40 AM »
I'll leave the decision of whether to chase to someone else.

In the meantime:
> The gun wasn't a revolver, right?

This may help narrow down the time period to guess his identity.

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #878 on: August 23, 2017, 04:39:17 AM »
> The gun wasn't a revolver, right?

>While you don't know much about guns, you are very sure it wasn't a revolver.

>_

Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #879 on: August 23, 2017, 04:41:05 AM »
>Us feeling stunned in place wasn't just a natural shock reaction, right? But something supernatural?

As for chasing, I'm not certain if we didn't get attacked because Assassin doesn't know we're a master or because Assassin specifically doesn't want to tangle with another servant or because Assassin's master gave them specific orders regarding this. If it's the first of these, racing after them seems bad for our health. I'm additionally concerned that whatever 'freeze' effect Assassin appears to have used might also be effective enough on Archer to allow Assassin to kill us at their leisure if we decide to engage.

Of course, there's always the possibility that Assassin's master doesn't actually want to kill us at this point for some reason....

Stuffman

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #880 on: August 23, 2017, 04:42:48 AM »
I kind of want to guess Gavrilo Princip but the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand was such a hilarious clusterfuck that I don't think I would be able to take him seriously.

If we're feeling leery about engaging, another reason would be that we should really get back to our car before the police (or Berserker) start crawing the area.

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #881 on: August 23, 2017, 04:43:24 AM »
>Us feeling stunned in place wasn't just a natural shock reaction, right? But something supernatural?

>You aren't sure, but you haven't had that much trouble with shock up until now... So you want to believe it was something else.

>_
« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 04:45:45 AM by Purji Costavis »

Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #882 on: August 23, 2017, 04:46:02 AM »
>Did you feel that?

Tashi

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #883 on: August 23, 2017, 04:46:43 AM »
//I'm re-reading the whole game again, so I should be back on track with this again by tomorrow. Oh dear lord what just happened.
ALL HAIL PROPOSALING-SAMA. SURPRISE FOR HIM.

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #884 on: August 23, 2017, 04:47:36 AM »
>Did you feel that?

>"That was a Noble Phantasm, I'm sure of it," Archer sends. "I could only watch, I'm sorry. He caught me completely off guard. What do we do now?"

>_

Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #885 on: August 23, 2017, 04:49:44 AM »
>Are we close enough that it seems almost certain that someone like Assassin would have noticed we were here?
>If so, should it also have been obvious to another servant that we had a servant with us?

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #886 on: August 23, 2017, 04:53:15 AM »
>Are we close enough that it seems almost certain that someone like Assassin would have noticed we were here?
>If so, should it also have been obvious to another servant that we had a servant with us?

>Yes.
>You think so. If nothing else, you've recognized Rider nearly immediately, and you are certain that you recognize this as Assassin as well. So, in theory, he ought to have at least noticed the lady beside you in the green cloak and leather boots.

>_

Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #887 on: August 23, 2017, 05:05:20 AM »
Okay, so we have to assume that he knew Archer was here and yet elected not to shoot us. It seems impossible to know whether he didn't want to risk provoking Archer, whether he was given specific orders to target only Koch, or specific orders not to kill us, whether his noble phantasm is more limited than it appeared to be on first glance and he can't maintain it long enough to have shot the both of us, or his master is ideologically similar to us.

And whether or not chasing him is a good idea depends on the answer to this question and also the range and duration his noble phantasm can reach. Like, I considered sending Archer on ahead of us so that he couldn't use his freeze attack and just shoot us (Archer might be able to tank a shot, for instance), but it's also conceivable that he could then freeze her for long enough to come back and kill us now that we have no protection. I genuinely don't think we have the information to make a sane call here, but one thing we probably can assume is that Assassin wasn't worried about being noticed by us or he could have elected not to present himself.

...which honestly makes it sound like we ought to retreat for now, regardless.

Stuffman

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #888 on: August 23, 2017, 09:31:39 PM »
The only reason I might disagree is that if we run into him again and we haven't ID'd him, we still won't know how his power works and we'll probably be dead. It might be best to press the advantage while he apparently can't attack us, and at least try to get another clue to his identity.

Also, most servants don't have that fancy Independent Action ability, right? So we might be able to get a look at his master if he's nearby.

Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #889 on: August 23, 2017, 10:46:21 PM »
I don't think you need Independent Action to rove fairly far away from your master - at least servants in F/SN went halfway across a city without it. As I understand it, it's their ability to sustain themselves even without an existing contract with their master - typically if that master is killed, but also under other circumstances where the contract is somehow broken directly. So Archer will stick around for a while even if Assassin kills us, but that's small comfort to us. And I don't think it implies that Assassin's master need be nearby (though of course they might be).

I'm not sure I read Assassin's actions as those of someone unable to attack us, but rather unconcerned about us following them (for whatever reason).

Don't forget there's plenty of chances for other masters/servants to intervene regarding Assassin in the meantime - even if only in a context that allows us to learn more about them.

But yeah, there's good arguments to both chasing and not chasing, and I'm not sure any of the questions that determine which option is best are even knowable to us at the moment. Withdrawing seems safest to me since Assassin shows no outward signs of concern towards us at the moment and I don't see how it makes us more vulnerable (and we might have additional knowledge or resources by the next time we meet - 'reroll' the encounter, as it were.) But certainly there are routes where this is the incorrect move, too....

(It's also occurred to me that we MIGHT be able to use a command seal to allow Archer to bypass this noble phantasm the next time, but I'd hesitate to spend one without knowing if it will work or if it would even be necessary, for several reasons)

Stuffman

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #890 on: August 24, 2017, 12:11:20 AM »
Quote
I don't think you need Independent Action to rove fairly far away from your master - at least servants in F/SN went halfway across a city without it. As I understand it, it's their ability to sustain themselves even without an existing contract with their master - typically if that master is killed, but also under other circumstances where the contract is somehow broken directly. So Archer will stick around for a while even if Assassin kills us, but that's small comfort to us. And I don't think it implies that Assassin's master need be nearby (though of course they might be).

Oh, okay. I'm not well-read on Fate stuff at all so I'm bound to make a few misunderstandings.

If there's no reasonable assumption that we'll run into his master if we follow him, it's a lot less attractive to do so since even if we straight-up killed the dude his master would still be on the loose with command seals to spare.

Screw it, we already made one crazy risk tonight sniping Rider, let's just back off.

That doesn't mean we can't gain any more info, though!

> Scope the scene for clues - check where Assassin was sitting while Archer inspects Koch.

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #891 on: August 24, 2017, 12:41:16 AM »
> Scope the scene for clues - check where Assassin was sitting while Archer inspects Koch.

>"Let's not linger too long," Archer says, as you direct her to investigate the dead billionaire's remains.
>You look around the area were Assassin was sitting. Nothing seems particularly awry with it, it is just a normal wrought-iron seat connected to a wrought iron table by a metal cable. Frankly, you're surprised that has stopped anyone from stealing them. It seems Assassin was just waiting here.
>"What the-, is this gold?" Archer says.

>_

Stuffman

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #892 on: August 24, 2017, 12:42:39 AM »
> "Gold what?"

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #893 on: August 24, 2017, 12:57:36 AM »
> "Gold what?"

>"Gold this," says Archer, as she holds out a glass tube about as long as her forearm. Inside it is what appears to be a long, twisty length of gold.

>_


The ⑨th Zentillion

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #894 on: August 24, 2017, 01:57:38 AM »
>Take a look at it. Do we have any knowledge on what this is?
Did you bring a light?
...No...


Smash the Fash; The far right belongs in the TRASH.

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #895 on: August 24, 2017, 02:24:24 AM »
>Take a look at it. Do we have any knowledge on what this is?

>Leaving the cafe behind, you head over to examine the tube. The length of gold is at least a foot long, maybe more. Its entire surface looks rough and gritty, it takes you a moment to realize that the surface is covered in little crystal facets.
>You don't really know what this is, but it is clearly important if it's being kept in a tube like this. "I found it inside of his coat, set into a little pocket with a loop to keep it in place," says Archer. "It feels like there's a lot of mana in this thing."

>_

Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #896 on: August 24, 2017, 02:36:11 AM »
>Could it be a mana-store like our vials are or do we think it might be an enchanted object of another purpose?
>If we had some time and materials, do we think we have the means to identify any enchantments on it, if they exist?

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #897 on: August 24, 2017, 02:48:33 AM »
>Could it be a mana-store like our vials are or do we think it might be an enchanted object of another purpose?
>If we had some time and materials, do we think we have the means to identify any enchantments on it, if they exist?

>That sounds entirely plausible. Given its apparently crystalline nature, it is definitely suited for such.
>Definitely.

>_

Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #898 on: August 24, 2017, 02:53:35 AM »
>"Definitely. I'll have to take a closer look at it when we have time - figure out what it is. Find anything else?"

Hello Purvis

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Re: JoJo's Bizarre Grail War - A Fate/Z-Machine Adventure
« Reply #899 on: August 24, 2017, 02:55:41 AM »
>"Definitely. I'll have to take a closer look at it when we have time - figure out what it is. Find anything else?"

>"Well, he was shot in the chest, and he's definitely dead," says Archer.

>_