| ~Hakurei Shrine~ > Touhou Addict Recovery Center |
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| Fightest:
--- Quote from: Amaterasu on September 10, 2009, 08:18:33 AM ---I wouldn't say Reimu came across as a "horrible person" in UFO; just a battle-weary, jaded person with little belief in the possibility of human/youkai peace. Sanae, on the other hand, comes across as a racist psycho. --- End quote --- Ooh, gotta play through Sanae's paths then. As for Reimu, I don't know if that take is any better than the "violent jerkass" that I tend to see. Let's not forget that she is the aggressor in the final fight. With the "jaded" interpretation she attacks Byakuren simply because there's nothing else left for her to do, she has to act out her part of "youkai hunter," regardless of the innocence of the opposing party. She's become, for better or worse, Gensokyo's version of Rambo. Oh, and there I go grimdark-ifying things again. I'm satisfied with Reimu being her usual "a bit of a dick" attitude, and attacking Byakuren because she's faced plenty of trickster youkai before, so best fire some warning headshots, figuring that the truth will come out once either of them is beaten. Let's not forget, Spell Card rules are in effect, so no permadeath - Byakuren's unlikely to know of Spell Card rules (that said, goshdarnit ZUN, give us some more background on the things) so it'd have to be Reimu who initiates them, knowing of their nonlethal-ifying effect. [edit]Oh, and requesting someone draw Rambo!Reimu. It must be done. Now! |
| Tengukami:
--- Quote from: Fightest on September 10, 2009, 08:49:22 AM --- --- Quote from: Amaterasu on September 10, 2009, 08:18:33 AM ---I wouldn't say Reimu came across as a "horrible person" in UFO; just a battle-weary, jaded person with little belief in the possibility of human/youkai peace. Sanae, on the other hand, comes across as a racist psycho. --- End quote --- Ooh, gotta play through Sanae's paths then. As for Reimu, I don't know if that take is any better than the "violent jerkass" that I tend to see. Let's not forget that she is the aggressor in the final fight. With the "jaded" interpretation she attacks Byakuren simply because there's nothing else left for her to do, she has to act out her part of "youkai hunter," regardless of the innocence of the opposing party. She's become, for better or worse, Gensokyo's version of Rambo. --- End quote --- What? Rambo? I'm really not seeing it. She's a miko who has had to fight all kinds of youkai in one incident after the other. Every time she reaches the final boss, that final boss has been like "Yes! You have discovered that I am the root cause of [Incident X]! Now we must fight!". So naturally, this veteran reaches the final boss of this incident, and naturally, attacks. And not because "there's simply nothing left for her to do" - she says she intends to seal Byakuren away, to which Byakuren says, "if you're going to seal me away again -- I will resist you with all my strength". This greatly pleases Reimu, because it's a classic final boss trope. Simply because that's how it's always been for Reimu, all her long weary life. It's also why she has little faith in the concept of humans and youkai holding hands and singing as they skip through the forest - she's lived through years and years of dealing with terrible, sometimes potentially catostrophic incidents caused by youkai. Sanae, by contrast, is on her first "mission" here in UFO, and she's all about EXTERMINATE THE YOUKAI. Who knows what her reasons are. Kanako/Suwako told her so? Maybe. I think it's important to not just read the dialogue, but also consider the history behind the characters when we make judgements about them like this. Reimu's history explains a lot about her behavior in UFO. Sanae's very short history in the Touhou canon makes her zealous youkaiphobia all the more weird and intense seeming. |
| Fightest:
Yeah, I know. I have this odd tendency to make everything to be far grimdarker than it should be, but only in Touhou - everywhere else I go for the more optimistic path. There's really no good reason for it, and you're absolutely right about Reimu's attitude - jaded, but not broken. More Hannibal from the A-Team, as opposed to...whats-his-face from Apocalypse Now. Not the best of comparisons, but it's the best I can do at short notice. Gah, I'll get on to Keine and the rest soonish. |
| Fightest:
Keine Kamishirasawa - Plain Asia. I think the piece title doesn't give Keine justice. The piece is far from plain, there are unfathomable depths to it that it doesn't let you investigate simply because you'd drown before you see them all. The introduction offers no hints at what is to come. The melody starts off in a careful and calm piano study, made somewhat aloof by the trumpet that tends to turn upwards into higher pitch. The introduction is quite short, made even shorter by being split into two characteristic parts ? the unassuming Keine and the aloof Keine ? suggesting that, despite her calm demeanour, she is somewhat short-tempered and refuses to be seen as inconsequential. When slighted thus, Keine?s response is to demonstrate just how deep she is. For the first time (possibly ever, I don?t hear it in any game previously) ZUN uses that electronic sound that sounds like unworded vocals ? the closest thing to Ominous Latin Chanting that he can come to reasonably. The melody is gone, there?s only the draw of those long, chanted notes pulling in the listener, who might be surprised at this rather sudden development. The draw ends, and a fast-paced study takes over, completely different from the introduction. The melody is not forceful, not brimming with power, but it?s certainly confident, practiced, slightly chastising of the listener for his assumptions. But this might not be enough for Keine. Before even finishing with this development, she begins to pull even deeper, all the while demonstrating her point in her collected and practiced manner, before realizing her aggression, and rapidly pulling back to safety, to her usual self. However, by now the listener is well-aware of Keine?s hidden depths, and the inoxerable draw is evident behind her unassuming introductory melody. Perhaps she chastises the listener for a while for spacing out, the trumpet adding a bit of exclamation to the end of the track. I?m not too confident about this analysis ? the two melodies are straightforward enough, the transition making the piece unique. So I?ll go with Keine being a person with two sides to her, and possibly more that she hides from the listener. Despite this she is not schitzophrenic ? she is perfectly balanced, perfectly in touch with herself, aware that her mannerisms might scare but willing to use the weirder aspects of her to prove a point ? and she will not push any further: she respects others and any limitations they might have. |
| Hieda no Aya:
--- Quote from: Fightest on September 10, 2009, 07:57:38 AM ---(stuff about Mokou that's too long to sensibly quote) --- End quote --- Oh, I see; that's an interesting interpretation, if a bit too out there for my tastes. And definitely too grimdark. My other counterargument to it would be simply that it's bad writing to have a narrator that completely deluded without any real tells, and I don't think ZUN is a bad writer in general, but then anyone can slip up. Also, much as it'd be nice to get Keine's opinion (aside from her appearances in Inaba, which I personally do take as less canon than other things, though still reasonably canon) surely the fact that she does associate with Mokou and protects her must mean something... even if it were only pity. (And not really related, but as far as the balance of grimdark vs playing by the rules goes, I'm very much liking the impression the Grimoire of Marisa's been giving me of Spell Card battles -- still basically a game, but a pretty rough game that may just edge into dangerous territory if your opponent doesn't care about playing it safe. I don't care for grimdark in my Touhou, but I think it does a good job of being lighthearted without being shallow.) --- Quote ---I'll go with that... except for the youkai-hunting job - from what I understand, her job is to maintain the Shrine so as the border doesn't wear down, and she youkai-hunts for the hell of it. --- End quote --- Hmm, I did overstate that, might have gotten things mixed up. Though incident resolution/youkai hunting is still her job at least in the sense of a career, and it is still apparently traditional for Hakurei shrine maidens -- but to make up for the lack of donations (and Reimu probably has that even worse than those before her since she's terrible about gathering faith). UFO is a bit problematic all around, though to be fair it's problematic for all the heroines. I'm on the side that there were good arguments to be made for them that weren't, or at least it all could have been laid out better, which is frustrating. I guess the best excuse for that is that the heroines are young and impetuous with narrow views of the world, and the stakes aren't high anyway, but ennh. In the end, their fighting Byakuren really didn't seem necessary, but Byakuren also seems to end up changing her mind about them and feeling she doesn't need to oppose them either. But really, the jerkass Reimu thing really is just a generalized pet peeve of mine. And invincible, I forgot that part. Invincible jerkass Reimu. Oh, and Sanae's not that bad. It's her first time trying out the youkai extermination routine, she gets overexcited and carried away. Since it seems like she's a wee bit of a geek, a real-life game of being the awesome hero vanquishing monsters probably appeals to her a lot... |
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