Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F

[Nyxnyx]

During my plus characters excluding Koishi, Akyuu, and Shou, Miko has been a liability with her massive skill costs and average stats along with squishyness that maintainaince can't really cope with since early game equips are so weak and I'm not at floor 20 grinding spot yet, so no money for those library levels. So yeah, it's a bit hard to comment on her performance now.

[RegalStar]

Plus characters' main game performance generally are subpar anyways since they all require a lot of skill points for their skills. Even then I found that Miko is actually quite good, pretty much just a magic nitori except goose cannon isn't as ridiculous as super scope (but then it's a lot better in randoms since it's AoE). Divinely Appointed Stateswoman is kind of finicky though; you're basically never going to get Evil realistically unless you just got World Devouring Calamity'd, and you have to keep your party in tip top shape to get Good, though if you do her first spell serves as a decent all-debuff option (it seems to be pretty accurate too; at least it sticks more often than Futatsuiwa Clan's Curse). She probably would be a lot better once I can actually get a whiff at Sage of Toyosatomimi (lol 40 SKP). She's pretty much completely limited to SPI though, so you'll need subclasses if you're fighting something that resists it (Taur Magician, Murakumo, etc.)

Oh and she's great in random too. Asuka Heritage Attack and Divinely Appointed Stateswoman - Good are automatically in effect as long as you aren't outsped (I'm using Tactician+Monks for first strike), so you get 24% more MAG and enemies get 40% less MND. Goose Cannon does cost a stupid amount of MP though.

[Serela]

I was looking at Ame-No-Murakamo's special subclass; there's an important difference from the original data leak and the released version.

It's drain passives still drain the same amount... but you get twice as much benefit. For draining a small 5% hp from the other frontliners, you gain a massive 30% hp regen. This is no laughing matter >.> Getting 6mp by draining 1 from other members is slightly more problematic, but because swapping is a thing, it's not half bad either. Or go as alt-gambler and it's even easier to maintain max buffs, but that's probably only good on a couple characters.

...hmm, actually, I think the HP drain actually heals by the -amount- drained (times 2), so you can't use it to make HP walls immortal. It still sounds wildly effective for a more conventional tank, though. Throw it on Reimu, who already possesses a healing skill to offset potential damage and gets heavily tanky after awakening, and... oh jeez. Or just make your attacker of choice regenerate quite a bunch of HP, as it's still quite useful on offensive characters. (If you have an HP wall out, then... however, it does say 30% max hp is the limit of healing.)

certain attackers could regen up to like 48~58% hp each turn considering blood sword rofl. This also makes Sanae tank look again like a half-decent option in a moriya party, because she really would have nigh-infinite mp to spam support and emulate Byakuren and plenty of HP regen to keep her going- she could even regularly use World-shaking Military Rule (that skill name...) albiet it's 16% buff isn't the most thrilling thing ever, but it keeps things topped off.

[RegalStar]

That's not a difference, that's me being unknowledgeable in Japanese  :blush: But yeah the HP and MP drain heals by twice their amount; I just didn't realize the wording meant that.

Also I just did a quick test, and the skill heals the user by twice the number of HP drained, not 10% per character drained. Test subject Maribel with some points thrown in HP drained 9k off Komachi with 170k HP total to heal herself for around 18k, when her own maxHP is 65k.

[Serela]

It happens!

And yeah, uh, that's... that's one hell of a passive. 5% max hp off frontliners when drain is needed, is an affordable loss. I said Sanae (or *coughs* edited it in after your reply...) but... oooh... the vitality that could rush through HP wall awakened-Minoriko's veins as a speedy ultra-regenerative buffhealer tank. Or the potential large burst in bulk on your favorite bulky hitters. Suddenly it really does sound like a glorious subclass, for... almost anyone.

edit:Okay, maybe it's overkill on Minoriko esp. as an hp wall who can't use the drain as well, although actually she's got the stupid mp flow to afford some Military Rule (lol minoriko plz) which'd let her cover spd/atk buffs a little. She's probably best suited for a party mostly featuring MAG users though (and probably a couple atk users who can either maintain their own buffs or, you know, minoriko isn't the -only- buff character you'd probably have; mnd-piercing characters are almost as good as actual atk ones tho.)

[Nyxnyx]

If we get the skill "Three swords of Divine Era" and use something with heavy manacost like Start of heavenly demise, would it be a bit too much Mp draining for other frontliners? Since it seems to me like that lol. The damage would be high, but i doubt it can be sustained. I don't think even the magicians can pull through such heavy use of Mp.

That skill seems best used with someone that has moderate attack power spell with reasonable Mp cost to delay ratio.

Edit: Oh and my plus run mostly rely on Mamizou and Kokoro to plow through many things, with Hina and Reisen for some high def bosses like Tenshi.

[Serela]

The skill that makes all other frontliners use up their MP when you attack is a somewhat imited-use skill. Especially because the subclass has options for letting a star character stay out in front a -lot-... which would mean regularly pumping through your front row's mp. IMO it's more suited if you're giving the subclass to someone you plan to use like a gambler instead (so it's only an occasional, high-reward heavy nuke); but it feels like you should probably just actually give them gambler, so that the Murakumo class can go to someone else.

It's IS a workable option for anyone whose main attack doesn't have too bad of an mp cost, but unless your tanks are like, awakened Sanae/Byakuren/Minoriko, it's gonna really inconvenience you to be blowing through their mp TWICE as fast. If it's a damage race fight and you just -really- need that damage, maybe.

[Nyxnyx]

Actually some plus boss fight was a damage race for me lol. Notable, or rather only two I can think of right now would be Futo and the corridor

Spoiler:

Momiji

. Both bosses are fast, especially Futo, and their attacks would cut you down one by one and it's impossible to sustain through their constant damage. But the worse of the two was

Spoiler:

Momiji

since her

Spoiler:

Rabies bite

is so ridiculous it oneshot ANY tank I tried to set up, and I wasn't underleveded at all, considering the 300 or more physical resist and the 500k damage to my byakuren, who has like 150k Hp at that time. My last resort was using mokou with stacked evasion and pray that she doesn't go down before I beat her. Once mokou is down I bring out alice and pray that she dodges one or two attacks before the boss starts to eat my backlines.

So yeah there are bosses that I think could be a damage race.

[RegalStar]

Well someone seemed to have goofed badly here. With level 4 Super Incantation Akyuu is supposed to do (1.5+0.6*4)=3.9x damage, which means she's supposed to get 290% boost, but she got a 390% boost instead, so basically it lets her do 100% (of base) more damage than it's supposed to  :V

[Serela]

If Akyuu actually maxes at 550% damage then... :V That's 2.75x per turn, instead of the previous 2.25x (which some characters like Kanako could actually sorta compete with -and- be bulky), which makes silly builds like Ame-No-Akyuu casting Start of Heavenly Demise look a little less dumb to use. Hah.

...it's still pretty questionable to do, though. Good for blasting through a panic phase by stocking up the charge ahead of time, but apart from that? It's kind of funny that a character with 550% damage is dubious even when trying to use it, but all her stats are terrible, so. The best argument I can imagine other than panic phase bursting is "I want her support spells, but plan to use them non-majorly enough that I'd like damage out of her too", which considering her resurrection, isn't that unreasonable of an argument. It's also a great argument for offensive Reimu (legitimately useful idea after awakening) and Sanae, and part of why Rumia is cool.

[Danmakugamer]

Dat feel, when everyone plays LoT2+ already, and u ar waiting for english patch (and new updates?) ;_;

[Validon98]

I'm waiting on both the updates and for like, a gathering of all of the stuff that has been translated in a more organized manner. None of the awakened skills are on the wiki, for example, only half the Plus Disk characters are on there, and none of the new skills that the old characters got were added either (which, by the by, I noticed a lot of people who got new skills were those that didn't have six skills already, only those that had five, meaning outside of the stat boosts and XP boosting skills, no one has more than six passive skills at the most). I wanted to try to do something myself to gather everything in one place, but there's a lot to trawl through. What I did do though was start on a basic spreadsheet that'd have information on at least everyone's skills (since that's really the big thing that is important to have translated and collected in one place) and subclass stuff. It's not really filled out that much because I don't exactly feel like going through this thread to find everything, but I'll link it for anyone who wants to gather information for it. It's just mostly for having something to reference before an English patch comes out.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tJY6i41C5BdLY5ZBqk-c_SqSXEye5Eg1vcFEDVYrVoU/edit?usp=sharing

EDIT: Checking real quick, seems like the JP wiki is coming along on stuff, seems like there's information for all the characters at the least, including a list of changes from v1.203 going into Plus Disk 1.103. Least there's that.

[Serela]

Once I'm back to my time off work I might add another character or two onto the wiki within the next few days, it's a little tedious but I'd really like to have them on there

I've been too lazy to figure out how to do a [hide] thing so that the awakened sections could be added, although I guess anyone who's looking at the wiki prooobably doesn't care about that sort of spoiler that much anyway? but it feels like it should be that way

I know where all the info and such is in the thread(s), but I haven't gathered it together; maybe tomorrow, right now I'm on my break at work :V

Adding all the new non-corridor passives to the wiki is a very good point and not that hard to do either tbh, should get to that too

[elminster1372]

Why don't you make a separate page for awakening skills, Serela? A quick introduction about what they are, and a list for each character. This way you can keep people relatively unspoiled.

[RegalStar]

I think we can do it like JP wiki did; add an entirely new section below what we have containing all the awakened spells, skills and comments.

[Serela]

Yeah, keeping the skills next to the actual character's data like RegalStar said makes it easier, otherwise you'd have to swap between two different pages for everyone. I just don't know how to do a Hide thing? It's not super critical to do a hide thing though I guess, since you're already looking up all the wiki info you probably want to see it? It'd be nice tho

I still have 4 more characters to add onto the wiki before I even think about that, in any case. Probably will do at least one in the next few days once I'm off work. Probably going to add the new non-corridor passives and a "buffed in plus" clause below damage formulas of relevant skills before I think about awakenings as well; we already have every awakening skill in one convenient list on the last time RegalStar posted it, so it's not a big priority for me. (Having it on the wiki will be nice to also have reviews on them though)

[RegalStar]

I've updated Characters 1 to include plus disk related changes, awakened skills, and some comments on them. Unfortunately, I don't know how to hide multiple tables under one heading, which makes Rinnosuke's section look really stiff since him getting a spell necessitates another table. If someone wants to try and fix it, feel free.

The problem now is characters whose spells and base stats have been adjusted in Plus Disk. Should we change them? If we do, should we note the old data (until Plus Disk has a menu translation at least)? Where do we leave the old data then?

[Serela]

Oooh, looks perfect! Rinnosuke's thing is a little clunky but only a few characters have a new skill, and it's hidden the rest of the time anyway, so I think it's fine.

JP wiki also suggests subbing enhancer on Rinno to make Precise Information notably more powerful, and add some healing to Battle Command. (I'll probably go through and add little notes like this myself later, though)

Whenever postgame subclasses are added, they'll need a new column for skp cost on leveling. JP wiki doesn't mention it so I assume the awakening skills have normal 5 cost, though.

Hmm, and where to note the characters with higher than normal max attack levels... maybe just add another column in for them too. I'll think about it later


edit:Oh, the new spells... the damage formula line isn't one with crowding issues, so just linebreaking and putting the new dmg formula (or the guess...) for it beneath it with some kind of tag is probably good. Base stats is slightly more awkward, although at least only 2 or 3 characters were tweaked (Flan, Iku... anyone else?). That category isn't crowded in the least either though, so it might be fine to, again, list them both.
Let's see, that's...
Hell's Tokamak, Giga Flare (mp/delay also adjusted iirc)
Supernatural Phenomenon, Knockout in Three Steps
Cat's Walk (Delay adjusted too),
and all three of Flandre's attacks.
And Byakuren's duplication scroll? And Aya's go-first spell had an mp cost increase.  Also, Tenshi's NTR attacks both got debuffs added in. edit:And I think Cirno's Diamond Blizzard got more PAR???

edit again:Minor review edits to the first character page~

edit MOAR:Going through the new Awakened Skill reviews; so, with Komachi's composite skills, one thing I wondered is where in the formula the ATK/MAG influences are being put in. Assuming they're just turning the attacks into "normal" composite skills, the new ATK/MAG increases are also boosted by the multiplier; this gives Avici actually, like, 160% Atk and turns it into a really good skill (since even with her low MAG, 400% is enough to boost it into a fine power all-target with a plethora of effects)

[Nyxnyx]

I can help gather what was translated and put it in the wiki, if that doesn't require any coding knowledge. Also I requested the Username but got no reply so far. Anything can I do?

[Serela]

Nah no coding, you just take the table from a character who has it, copy-paste, and rewrite the text. If they have a skill you can copy-paste off Rinnosuke from the first page.  I think there's nothing to do about the account but wait until it's approved, but that shouldn't take too long in my experience?

Any help is super appreciated <3 It's great that progress is getting made on the wiki~

[RegalStar]

JPWiki's Patchouli page seems to think that 5*12% is 80%  :V

[Serela]

Yeahhhhh I noticed that :VV I was really confused.

[Nyxnyx]

I think your description for Marisa's awakened skills are a bit off since I think the 2 hakkero modes doesn't work with each other. You should go check.

[Serela]

Oh, that part isn't mentioned, you're right. I went in and fixed that just now.

...I'ma test Yuugi's powered up formulas. She's looking kind of tempting to put in my party. >_>

edit:this took awhile because my computer crashed and then I had to leave >.> I was gonna do cat's walk but I don't have the time now.
Giga Flare: 5400~6200 (2348 mag) (250% mag? used to be 150%)
Tokamak: 4399~4852  (2348 mag) (200% mag? used to be 180%)
Knockout: 8059~9206 (2618 atk) (330% atk? used to be 260%)
Phenomenon: 4618~5498 (2618 atk) (195% atk? used to be 192... wait. >_> probably a little more but rng numbers is a thing?)
WAIT CRUD
I'M RUNNING 1.102 STILL. So, Yuugi's attacks both have another buff from 1.103. Nevermind. I don't have time to retest right now, though. After considering the 30% buff on physicals though (and all her other dmg boost passives and high atk...) knockout is really a strong move, though.

[RegalStar]

Cat's Walk - 132-58 (worth noting that despite the guy who put it as 140-50 on the wiki, its old formula was 100-50)
Supernatural Phenomenon - 249-75
Knockout in Three Steps - 375-38 (Although it's unstated, its delay is also increased to 0)
Hell's Tokamak - 211-120
Giga Flare - 240-8

From my own testing.

[Serela]

That brings Knockout up to 500% with Yuugi's boost, ignores half DEF, and Yuugi has a lot of really great passives and a helpful awakening... with a solid other move in Phenomenon being well buffed, and she's pretty durable. And Last Fortress + is a -really- huge boost well into a dangerous boss fight. That's... pretty great sounding.

Utsuho can also actually compete with the likes of Kaguya now. She's only got MYS, though, wheras Kaguya can eventually even sub Archmage for many more elements of piercing defense, as can Rumia sort of. In exchange she's got actual durability (and, well, she can blaze away when she doesn't need flares). It may sound disappointing that Giga Flare doesn't sync well with fighting spirit or overheat or whatnot, but Kaguya doesn't get -any- damage boosters, really, and nor does Shikieiki, so... in the realm of defense piercing, it's great now that it's damage is nearly doubled. Tokamak is also now notably more appealing (damage formula is good after blazing), and it's heavy MND factor is lessened by it's nearly unstoppable MND debuff with Sheer Force. Utsuho's been saved!

edit:Added new move info for orin/utsuho/yuugi onto the wiki in parenthesis, underneath the original data. Looks pretty good I think! That leaves, Tenshi, Flan, and Byakuren's move tweaks in the later pages still.

[Nyxnyx]

Yeah I definitely have very good things to speak about Okuu's performance, even something that has a bit of resistance to fire she can still do the heavy lifting with sheer force and huge fire damage up from awakened passive. Worth every single gems spent and the awakening stone on her.

So yeah, any foes not having huge resistance to mystic and fire are easy targets. But the most ideal condition would be a boss that is weak to fire, a few turns with Tokamak and the self damage reving up along with the mnd debuff it really has the damage number of 2 suns grinding the boss.

But for Yuugi, I think she's a bit slow? Since knockout has massive delay and Yuugi is kinda slow for most part so I think she would do more dps as a hit and run character if you're using the knockout, with someone like awakened Keine to switch.

And I got my account. What's left to be edited into the wiki?

[Serela]

Subclasses and the last 4 characters on page 7. Character data is mostly around pages 6 and 7 of this thread (or reference the jp wiki for some.),  Anything you don't see you can just leave for me to add/fix afterwards, a little cleanup duty is easy peasy. I'll probably add a character on there today too so if you're planning on doing one, just gimme a heads up and I'll do a different character :V

subclass data: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19029.msg1233871.html#msg1233871 (damage formula estimates around page 6~7 of this thread as well, but you can also ignore that and let me do 'em if you want to be lazy)
plus disk character passive/skill descriptions: https://www.shrinemaiden.org/forum/index.php/topic,19029.msg1233056.html#msg1233056

Yuugi's Knockout is slow but it also carries the power of a freight truck now- 500% atk after phys boost and she's got a lot of atk/damage up passives and very high base atk. Phenomenon is still a very powerful skill for low-delay spamming, as well as explosive flame sword and whatever else you get from subbing. Since she has a physical damage bonus, monk's all-target normals might be nice in randoms... (or Warrior's empowered normals will just do the damage of a spellcard for cheap, instead of her physical element costing all her mp :V)

[Nyxnyx]

Hmm, I want to add the table in the JP wiki that says how much of the passive boost you get from assigning a subclass. How do you do that? Is it fine if I add the table without the "lines" since that's what I managed to do lol.

[Serela]

It's a pretty useful table, go for it. Without the lines... well, as long as it's still legible? XD