Labyrinth of Touhou 2 - 16F

[RegalStar]

You have Meiling, Minoriko and Reimu; you should have no problem whatsoever.

[Validon98]

Hilariously, I also restarted my LoT1 run because the previous run I mentioned before became so painful with 5 Plus Disk characters that I just redo it. The only problem ended up being that my only healer in my team now is Reimu (the team being Meiling, Kanako, Sakuya, Marisa, Reimu, Youmu, Kaguya, Reisen, Tenshi, Ran, Renko, and Remilia), but I have pretty insane debuff potential so the only bosses that'll give me trouble are ones that resist debuffs I'm fairly sure (if I actually see this run through).

Otherwise, that team sounds fairly solid, might be a little troublesome early on because of the usual early game SP concerns (which is the main reason why Plus Disk characters are absolute garbage early game, even Eiki is no good when you can only afford to have her attack once or twice per boss fight, no matter how strong her attacks are) but nowhere near as bad as my great idea to have 5 Plus Disk chars in one party whose name isn't "Mystia" (the only Plus Disk char in my opinion who doesn't suffer nearly as bad as the others early game and can pretty much last you the game because she's just great all-around).

[elminster1372]

Well, I once tried a healer-less run even (with RNG-ed chars, no less). It's not THAT bad, but... some fights can get pretty brutal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J90aIV2EYhw

EDIT: If you want I can upload Rinnosuke too if you need to see more of my suffering^^

[Serela]

Maybe the weirdest choice in this entire list is Orin, but I wanted a faster character and she's more viable lategame than Chen/Aya because her damage is constantly good while the other two peter off towards the end.

LoT1 Aya actually explodes in usefulness as you get towards plus and her SP soars; she's the plus disk version of Chen after she can afford to spam the hell out of Peerless Wind God, keeping a maxed speed buff up to make up for higher delay (You just need Iku out to keep refreshing her atk). Chen definitely starts petering off as you head into plus, but it's where Aya starts picking up. I used her all the way through WINNER and, while sadly there's a lot of WND resistant bosses in plus, she actually -still- did rather high damage against them (not including the serpent of chaos' 500(?) wnd resist... RIP yuyuko too for that fight, another Plus Disk bloomer). It was really good.

But yeah, Orin's a nice speedster. Blazing Wheel is helpful for randoms and does well in bosses. While your team might be slightly low on element variety, you've always got the character's non-main-nuke moves, so it's not a big deal.

Ran is a fabulous attacker if you choose to build her that way, by the way. Soaring En No Ozuno is stronger than you might expect once you buff up, and it's got a wonderful delay you don't see on many good attacks in LoT1.

[ZoomyTsugumi]

Yeah I remember trying out Aya in plus and she got really good, however I haven't really decided if I'm taking this team to plus, and Orin's way better for maingame than Aya, and she can still hold her own in plus too.

I'm stuck deciding whether to take ran as an attacker or a tankier character. So far I've put 5 levels in Mag and 5 in Def so I could probably go either way but I guess with the amount of bulk and buffs I have I could afford to let her attack more than support.

I might also see how far I can get Reimu to deal good damage with only a minor extra investment into her Mag than usual. She puts up really fantastic numbers early game tbh and I know she falls flat really fast but its quite nice while it lasts.

Also I feel like if there's one character I'm going to come to regret it'll be Yuugi. Could've probably chosen better there.

[Nyxnyx]

Kaguya can become more durable than expected, her MND is actually -very- good, as are her affinities (and her DEF isn't beyond saving with gems, surprisingly), but she has perhaps the second lowest HP in the game to deal with. It basically REQUIRES a first aid kit to fix, but if you do, you can start getting somewhere. Give her an HP boost tome too!

Lv1 stats are pretty much completely meaningless, by the way. But it would be too much effort to completely remove them from the wiki. We mean the base growth. This can be viewed ingame on the second page of the status screen, one of the buttons scrolls it, but the wiki is generally easier.

Leveling spellcards increases damage (or healing) by 5%. So Satori copies deal about a quarter less damage than the max leveled attacks you'll likely have at that point in the game. Her non-awakening passive only barely fixes that up if she hits weakness. If you aren't copying the small handful of special spells (Last Judgment, Avici), there's not really any point to using her now that she can't even gamble for a 90% damage boost, and even then it's dubious- and her awakening -only- helps if she's hitting weakness with those attacks. Basically, RIP Satori.

About HP build Satori... it's sad to hear that ;_; On the upside, it's completely defense/affinity ignoring damage, and if you do pair her with a low-delay move user it's not half bad (although likely more effort than it's truly worth against all but the tankiest bosses- but at least it's good against those?). Well, it's something; when you consider she can use support skills AND deal that damage, it's vaguely...? Ah, oh well. But yeah, that's... a little too many tanks. Rinnosuke is kinda redundant if you're using Keine though I think, he's sorta outclassed in general for Plus unless you run Shou. And whilst Reimu is REALLY good after awakening, there's a reason I'm trying to drop her and use Rumia+Mari for MT heals instead; so many support characters! (We'll see if I can get away with it... Reimu tank looks incredibly helpful, and also enables a powerful offense tokiko)

Well, at least we might be able to count on these buffs that are coming out for some characters. 3peso might see that our poor satori needs help and need something to save her from mediocrecy, aside from the earth spirit party buff. Things would go better for her if she weren't so squishy since the ability that helps other frontliner do more damage with weaknesses would see more use. A possible set up for her can be 1 2 slots for tanks and buffers, 3rd one for Okuu or Koishi, preferably Okuu since Koishi, at least IMO, is kinda unreliable lol as much as I love her as a character. Her main damage with low delay has -10 acc, it tends to miss in crucial moments and evasion is not something you want to rely on when boss can one shot your best girl. With the 4th slot Satori, we can use Okuu to a higher degree with Satori do whatever she's capable off.

As for lot1 I haven't played it so I can't really comment

[Serela]

I'm kind of surprised with how squishy Satori is considering her blue mage status. She can't do enough damage now that gambler's out to justify her being so squishy. She's got really high HP, but nothing in her kit actually helps her make that work apart from the max hp damage awakening- which delegates her into an unusual support instead. (It could be really neat if she was a little more suited to tanking, but as I said- nothing helpful in her kit) I'd -like- to use her because I really like Satori, but I just can't see a reason to; it was fun to run Gambler Satori before plus, though. (With waifu-grade tweaking and the full earth spirits team for synergy boost you can give her durability, but that's a lot of rare def/mnd gems...)

Also, inaccurate attack moves really aren't a problem. Just make sure one of Koishi's equips has some accuracy bonus on it. It's on plenty of nice enough equipment. And Koishi, at least with some tweaking, can take a hit. Okuu is a bit more suited to it though, yeah. Okuu's main problem is just she needs a few turns to ramp up (Fighting Spirit, Overheating, and High Blazing all rely on it- time to use attack a few times first? Maybe even sub Sorc for it instead of transcendant for bulk up? She could use the bulk though, depends on preference)

He seems to be paying a good bit of attention to bringing up the characters who are lagging behind (and it's actually working- Tenshi's awakening was COMPLETELY revamped and even flipped roles from tank to attacker and is really cool looking now! Flan grade atk with Iku out, dang!), so maybe Satori will get something or another after awhile. It can be hard to judge her when she's a blue mage, though, but... her blue magery mostly falls off in plus with it all being lv0 >.> I was surprised she didn't get "Recollection Enhancement" or something to boost up their levels, but as she is, that's not quite enough anyway... it'd help though. (She could copy aya's turn move then *coughs*)

[nyttyn]

Edit: I dabbled around with Satori some more since I had a feeling my memory was off, having her not be a gambler and with no family bonus - and I have to say she's probably not worth bothering with if you don't give her that massive bonus proof of kinship provides, and even then it's fairly shaky. Even with such great formulas, it turns out that not having much in the way of passives to back you up along with high level difficulty and not super-great base stats is pretty crippling. Even her Master Spark was pretty ho-hum.

She still probably has potential, but without gambler there's some serious need for buffs here, though I unfortunately forsee him being conservative on her simply due to the fact she can access such bonkers shit that was intended to be balanced by people who couldn't use them effectively.

I think the trick to using Satori is pairing her with people where she can abuse and make the most of multiple things - for example, if she was in a front line with Reisen and Maribel, you could have her use Grand Patriot's Elixir to go super sayian, then abuse her newfound super stats with Liberated Abilities to have twice the Void. Or use her in a front line with Renko to get 2x Charge off super quickly, and then be able to actually abuse the 202% MAG - 28% T.MND formula of Galaxy Stop with Satori's much higher magic. Or, say, Suika's Gathering and Dissipating, which is 4(+1) MP Wind Row 400% MAG - 100% T.MND. Komachi has a similar move in Narrow Confines, 400% MAG - 100% T.MND spirit that hits all for 6(+1) mp, along with a pretty fantastic 300% ATK - 75% T.DEF 6(+1) MP Physical attack, and she's a tank so no going out of your way to have them both out. Meiling's absurd 320% ATK - 40% T.DEF 3(+1) MP Physical Mountain Breaker comes to mind as another fantastic move (and you don't really have to go out of your way for it since Meiling is already a tank). There's also ran's (150% ATK + 188% MAG) - 75% T.DEF 4(+1) MP row attack with extremely low delay. You can also double up on the Poison chances at the start of the fight with her and Wriggle out, double the chances to instant death with her and Yuyuko out, and double the Shackles with her and either Yuugi or Alice out. You get double the Super Scope 3D or Master Spark too!

While I still need to try her further, I feel like you're underselling Satori a bit in the plus disc. Sure, Gambler nerfs suck, but she still has access to some pretty fantastic attacks if you're willing to jump through varying degrees of hoops that will correspond to how much effort you're willing to put in (and at the worst you can get either Komachi's or Meiling's attacks if you use either of them as tanks and they have some pretty incredible formulas), and if nothing else she's unusually flexible in what she can do during an average turn. Though I do hope that she gets a awakening skill that helps her out generally while still keeping that flexiblity - some sort of tank enhancement would do well for her, I think.

[jaxter0987]

I maybe also didn't need Minoriko since I've always gotten through the maingame just fine with only Reimu as a healer but I figure Minoriko can't hurt for extra heals and buffs and I couldn't really think of anyone else to put in her place anyway. I needed Keine to supplement Iku's offensive buffs since Ran could not reliably help cos of SP issues.

Sanae should have been a strong consideration over Minoriko, since strong / fast healing isn't as important when you have Reimu and Meiling and having a secondary way to heal status ailments would be nice.

Edit: Finally did some testing with Satori and the results were as expected. She can only do comparable damage to dedicated nukers (Kaguya and Eiki with SPI) when the she's copying silly formulas like Komachi's Narrow Confines. This was done against the main game final boss. This isn't good enough especially when the only tank I use with silly formulas is Komachi.

Edit2: Did some more testing, this time comparing Knockout in 3 Steps with Yuugi versus atk built Satori using Mountain Breaker and the damage is also comparable but I don't use Meiling at all so.... And although the damages are comparable when you compare post use, its not like I want Satori staying out after using Mountain Breaker anyway because she can't take any hits...

Here's to hoping Satori gets some bulk or something because this is just sad. Maybe she can get a skill that lets her copy spells at a reduced cost rather than raised cost. Or a skill that lets her copy spells at full power, which isn't actually too crazy. She'd do as much damage as dedicated nukers but she would lack the lopsided defenses to balance out her flexibility. Kaguya has respectable MND and Eiki has respectable DEF and other nukers are under similar cases.

Or just keep her the same offensively but raise her defenses to not be toilet paper levels. By jumping through a few hoops, Satori can deal less damage than dedicated nukers but have more bulk than dedicated nukers which sounds perfectly acceptable.

That said, the only two spells currently worth a damn are Narrow Confines and Mountain Breaker. Suika's Gathering and Dissipating is too impractical to actually realize. Ran's composite spell actually won't do much since experience has told me that splitting resources between ATK and MAG isn't viable. Even if you went pure ATK / MAG and used a composite spell, after seeing how underwhelming pure MAG Galaxy Stop is, there's almost no way Ran's composite spell will fair much better on Satori.

[Shinkenrui]

A couple of notes to add to the satori discussion:

I havent fully tested this yet, but the damage bonus from trauma recollection seems to stack multiplicatively with most other damage bonuses, so as an offensive support she works very well with other characters that have a ton of damage boosting skills of their own, although unfortunately this doesnt help her own damage very much.

Probably more importantly, spiriting away appears to work just fine for satori, and as it so happens small MP recovery is wildly broken on a character that can use that spell  :V

[Serela]

I think the trick to using Satori is pairing her with people where she can abuse and make the most of multiple things

Unfortunately most of those pairings don't work that well. Double Charge is 66% hp damage to the row (VERY not good), Galaxy Stop will still eat the front line's ATB (it's formula pierces some mnd but really isn't special, and she'd have lv0 status infliction rates), and sadly, without possessing any damage boosters (apart from weakness boost to let her hit "normal" damage instead of lv0 damage... if she can hit weakness), her bad level rate, and her only moderately good offense stats, 300% attack formulas really will only do about as much (or more likely, less) than what any good attacker can do.  The 400% attacks, Judgment/Giga Flare, and 3D Super Scope/Master Spark are the only truly -useful- copy attacks, and two of those are only special against the really tanky bosses. Even Mountain Breaker just manages keeps up with what other characters can pull off- which is not good considering Satori can't take a hit where most characters can, unlike LoT1.

...speaking of that, oh, huh, using her with Yukari's Spiriting Away is actually nice. I suppose in very specific parties (Yukari+Nitori+Marisa+Eiki and/or Utsuho) you might collect enough useful blue mage moves to justify a party slot. With the right equips her HP can be enough to keep her out in the front safely for a short while, so if the value of piercing defense is enough, or if you need a second Spark... (Or you're being silly and Spiriting Away a bunch, which sounds potentially neat) ...but there's still the issue that she's only a little better than a glass cannon, and the actual glass cannons generally do better and are hard enough to use as it is until you get awakened Keine. Spiriting Away is what manages to tip the scales a little.

Ran's composite spell actually won't do much since experience has told me that splitting resources between ATK and MAG isn't viable. Even if you went pure ATK / MAG and used a composite spell, after seeing how underwhelming pure MAG Galaxy Stop is, there's almost no way Ran's composite spell will fair much better on Satori.

You always go all in on the higher offense stat for composities, and then use equipment that boosts both when you can. That being said, the move isn't half bad (A decent rule of thumb for composites with roughly equal base offense stats is, cut the influence of the lower offense stat in HALF, and add it to the other, so it's roughly 265%, which is... not bad, but not special. Sorc can make it good with +30%, but since it's on Satori, it's not like she can use the low delay much.) It's great on Ran but stay-out attacks don't really work for Satori who must get in and back out or just die.

and yeah, boosting the front row's weakness hitting is nice, but with her durability it only works in HP Wall Form. If she had some more tanking ability it could be pretty nice. As it is, it's -possible- you might get decent damage out of running her as a wall when you combine Awakening HP Damage, boosting weakness hits on the party, AND doing some form of support herself (herbs of awakening?). She ignores all the self-buffing bosses in postgame, but she has no damage reduction or regen to synergize with her HP... :T Even as a "tank", she looks to capitalize on weakness boost and HP damage to, in actuality, be an extremely unorthodox attacker herself.

[RegalStar]

Keep in mind Charge is -33% of current HP. Double charges eats away 55% of current HP, not 66%. (This is also why Enhancer Charge is actually not -17% all the time; it's less if the targets have less than max HP, and in cases of if you use it when someone just ate a Black Universe or something it will even heal them.)

But yes Satori with Spiriting Away is potentially silly. I saw on a Chinese forum once that someone noted that if she has 99 max MP she can potentially set up a finite loop with Murakumo's Blessing subclass, Yukari, Aya, and some attacker (number of loops is dependent on Aya's MaxMP).

[Serela]

Hah, that's pretty funny. Although keep in mind Spiriting Away eats one's entire max mp pool, so she'd -have- to be swapping. Also, with double mp boost and 10 mp gems at like lv420 I think she only gets to about 65? You get equips to help, though.

At that level of mp she can also really get somewhere with reisen burst damage off max hp.

[RegalStar]

According to @wiki, your characters do have hidden, different levels of resistance to VOI element. Apparently, Kaguya takes about 20-30% more damage, Nazrin/Eirin/Eiki takes 33% less (though the numbers show up as red), Komachi takes about 40% less, Parsee/Flandre/Koishi/Akyuu takes about 50% less, and Mari takes about 75% less.

[LazorPagoda]

You know how I said my team was weak, right? Well... now after Yuyu's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana + Aya + Reisen farming floor 21, I am getting like 5 levels, per run, and with the INSANE item drops  (for my level, ONE 400% Def item made Tenshi unkillable). So, the new weak people grinding spot is officially floor 21, just with a bit of rng, you get alot of profit!

[Nyxnyx]

Also, inaccurate attack moves really aren't a problem. Just make sure one of Koishi's equips has some accuracy bonus on it. It's on plenty of nice enough equipment.

I just want that slot to be something that boosts more damage or tankiness lol. Yeah it's a minor frustration but it still is.

Satori might be kinda sad right now but at least I have good things to say about the earth spirit party, namely Okuu and Orin both awakened. Both of them are really dependable as of now. Orin might require a bit of luck but once she decides that she wants to attack many times, it's rainin' needles. On physical weak bosses once she saved with 4 times needle, instantly won a losing boss battle.

Okuu is great once you get a fews turn going. Hells tokamak debuff mind and has higher multiplier in plus, I think. This deals huge amount of damage after 2 turns, the boss doesn't even have to be weak to fire. And giga flare really feels like you're nuking a boss with the effect and number on screen. Needless to say she's great in damage race.

You know how I said my team was weak, right? Well... now after Yuyu's Saigyouji Flawless Nirvana + Aya + Reisen farming floor 21, I am getting like 5 levels, per run, and with the INSANE item drops  (for my level, ONE 400% Def item made Tenshi unkillable). So, the new weak people grinding spot is officially floor 21, just with a bit of rng, you get alot of profit!

Yeah that was how I grind floor 21 lol.

[RegalStar]

Plus Disk in general have encounters designed like 20F depths; difficult battles with big rewards. Of course they're only difficult if you take on them honorably; using Aya or Tactician+3 Monks will still trivialize most of them.

[Serela]

I just want that slot to be something that boosts more damage or tankiness lol. Yeah it's a minor frustration but it still is.

Well yeah- but once I cared enough to look I realized a lot of equipment I would have been interested in -anyway- also has accuracy bonuses on it. I can't say what Plus Disk equips would do it, but page 6 has the Compact Arm and Cobra Sniper Rifle with mag/hp/mnd bonuses in addition to lots of acc. (From what I saw of plus equipment it blows all the earlier stuff out of the water pretty fast, though)

[Nyxnyx]

Plus Disk in general have encounters designed like 20F depths; difficult battles with big rewards. Of course they're only difficult if you take on them honorably; using Aya or Tactician+3 Monks will still trivialize most of them.

There is no honor in being pulverized by generic mobs lol.

Well yeah- but once I cared enough to look I realized a lot of equipment I would have been interested in -anyway- also has accuracy bonuses on it. I can't say what Plus Disk equips would do it, but page 6 has the Compact Arm and Cobra Sniper Rifle with mag/hp/mnd bonuses in addition to lots of acc. (From what I saw of plus equipment it blows all the earlier stuff out of the water pretty fast, though)

Yes plus equips, even the worst ones, make normal game equips a joke. But for some reason, that "quartz charm" or was it? That +20 damage done and -20 damage recieved with some 100 resistance showed up on one of my (!!!!!) sign in the endless corridor. Either that item is actually good later in the game, or I had a really bad luck since one of those (!!!!!) sign could be a Tokugawa doubling gold, which I got one through such luck, or some 500+ stats item. 

[Serela]

Either that item is actually good later in the game

-20% damage taken is pretty good, paired with +20% damage up too >.> Now, admittedly, when you're looking at +500% equips I can see why it wouldn't be. It's at least great on hp sponges like Komachi/Satori/Mamizou?

For all the shit I've been giving Satori, if you gave her two quartz charms, a first aid kit (or something- there's a blood sword to drain hp on attacks, right?), and an equipment similar to Grand Title of Master Breaker (pumps affinities and all stats) then, well, might fix the durability issue. ALTHOUGH, I'd still probably rather give it to Mamizou, or try to run Komachi tank with it. I guess +20% damage done up might not be good versus 400% mag equips. >_> That'd make offense characters harder, so Komachi tank...

[RegalStar]

Some plus disk equip equip that gives ACC exists, although they aren't easy to obtain (I only have two of them) and all but one of them are ATK based (and the one that isn't doesn't give any offensive boosts at all). On the other hand, Plus Disk makes it so that every character can get Accuracy Boost if they want, which effectively raises the baseline by +20 I believe.

[Serela]

Oooh right, Accuracy Boost! That's even better.

...does ANYONE innately have accuracy boost? XD I don't think so!

edit:I'm actually getting curious about postgame offense Komachi. Avici gets a 160% ATK addition to it's formula (80% plus avici's x2 multiplier) which, combined with 400% MAG (even if her mag is fairly low, that's... not a trivial amount, esp. with a little base mag tweaking as all her attacks are now composite) actually makes it look like a very useful attack in randoms and lets Komachi target MND and get a strong alltarget, and Scythe That Chooses The Dead is still a solid physical skill with a good enough formula to make up for not having offensive passives.

Except she does, in that she's got a fairly strong counter passive, along with one that passively keeps her ATK buff rising. Good element coverage (Short Life Expectancy's good delay makes it work, Ferriage is a row atk so it can be boosted, and she can get NTR/WND as Monk with additional regen or a strong fir+cld by subbing Warrior), etc.

With a Blood Sword main equip she can significantly increase her regen, and use a Quartz Charm, to actually start looking like someone who can stay out for a decent while sometimes. Interesting. Granted, there's still probably better bulky attackers, but it sounds definitely good enough to use if you like Komachi and if you also use Shiki, then it's good for synergy. (Komachi doesn't need it much, but Shiki's a bulky attacker and can use the +10% on all stats better)

Mami can still compete as hp sponge offense because her awakening and always-hits-weakness makes her more powerful than Komachi and gives her a 20% damage reduction, but in exchange Komachi's got even more HP and innate regen. Komachi's higher regeneration versus Mamizou's damage.

[Nyxnyx]

-20% damage taken is pretty good, paired with +20% damage up too >.> Now, admittedly, when you're looking at +500% equips I can see why it wouldn't be. It's at least great on hp sponges like Komachi/Satori/Mamizou?

For all the shit I've been giving Satori, if you gave her two quartz charms, a first aid kit (or something- there's a blood sword to drain hp on attacks, right?), and an equipment similar to Grand Title of Master Breaker (pumps affinities and all stats) then, well, might fix the durability issue. ALTHOUGH, I'd still probably rather give it to Mamizou, or try to run Komachi tank with it. I guess +20% damage done up might not be good versus 400% mag equips. >_> That'd make offense characters harder, so Komachi tank...

Well, that still doesn't fix her damage since she would still deal much less than most stayin attackers with that build, I think lol. 40% damage can't really beat 100k stats difference, especially when you put most points into HP to help her stay alive.

I think Mamizou has "cheaper" awakening than Komachi. 40% damage increase with 20% less damage after few turns and Majesty to slower the buff decay, with the ability to work against any boss. Komachi needs much more investments on gems for magic to really make difference on her now composite nukes, but it might work if you really put some waifu grade adjustments to her.

Some plus disk equip equip that gives ACC exists, although they aren't easy to obtain (I only have two of them) and all but one of them are ATK based (and the one that isn't doesn't give any offensive boosts at all). On the other hand, Plus Disk makes it so that every character can get Accuracy Boost if they want, which effectively raises the baseline by +20 I believe.

Wow thanks for reminding! I just put one for my Koishi, should solve the problem!

Anyone beat the lastest corridor boss.

Spoiler:

That purple thing I don't know what it's called. It's attack and magic seems to dwarf previous bosses since it tends to one shot my tanks. But the main problem is, once it hits a certain HP, it swaps all my front liner, and use some void element damage that hits my team for 200-300k damage on everyone. This kills anyone if it's not evaded. Anyone have some way to beat this?

[Serela]

I think Mamizou has "cheaper" awakening than Komachi. 40% damage increase with 20% less damage after few turns and Majesty to slower the buff decay, with the ability to work against any boss. Komachi needs much more investments on gems for magic to really make difference on her now composite nukes, but it might work if you really put some waifu grade adjustments to her.

Mamizou's definitely stronger, but Komachi has the better regen and more HP to use it off. She doesn't need to care -that- much about her magic- it's gonna be low either way, but putting MAG boost and if it's not too much a bother to put some gems, in to boost up Avici, etc. Although, how good that is depends on how much survivability Komachi actually has with 18~22% regen in an attack build, I wouldn't know >.>

But yeah, you're right about Quartz Charms. One is probably good for the defense, but two solidifies them as probably trying to run tank Komachi >.> Even then, you might want one affinity-based equip and a super HP pump, or even just two of one of those categories... hrm. I guess Quartz Charms really do get a little underwhelming, actually. >_> Maybe eventually the equip bonuses are lower versus levelup/library bonus adding to stats? I'd have to test a bunch to see how the formula goes.

Speaking of hp sponges with regen, I wonder how well Minoriko works out postgame after throwing hp boosts and a first aid kit on her with that new 18% regen and self overhealing. 16% mag party buff each turn, infinite mp, and a 70% delay powerful buffheal isn't half bad. Potentially sub

Spoiler:

dragon god

due to all the turns she gets or just go Herbalist to use the infinite mp with placebo and herb of awakening. But it's hard to tell how well she'll survive when her base hp isn't the best? At least she's got high mnd unlike other sponges.

[Spiffspoo]

According to @wiki, your characters do have hidden, different levels of resistance to VOI element. Apparently, Kaguya takes about 20-30% more damage, Nazrin/Eirin/Eiki takes 33% less (though the numbers show up as red), Komachi takes about 40% less, Parsee/Flandre/Koishi/Akyuu takes about 50% less, and Mari takes about 75% less.

This is dumb, everyone is suppose to have the same resistance to it.  Do enemies have this as well?  I would assume the shadow versions would have this as well.

[RegalStar]

The Second Sun has 200 VOI resistance. I don't know if any plus disk enemies have weakness/resistance to it since I didn't use any characters with VOI attacks.

[Nyxnyx]

I think Void attack is kinda bad in general, when you can just hit a weakness and do much more damage instead. Except when the enemy uses it lol.

[Serela]

There's very few VOI attacks from enemies, namely I think NONE before plus. Looks like most characters have a resistance rather than a weakness, too, if either- so it's a good thing more than a bad thing.

The Void attacks specifically state in their descriptions that next to no enemies resist it, so I wouldn't worry too much about it- but some do exist like Second Sun (as absolutely irrelevant as it is, there). If there's a Second Sun V2, maribel won't be using her awakened Liberated Abilities on it :V There's only 2 void attacks as it is, though, and only Maribel's is one of her best moves (after awakening)

cut:Well, the thing is, in random fights (as both of your void attacks are all-targets) the point is mostly that you aren't getting resisted, either, so the damage is stable. With 3~5 different enemies onfield, resistance can be a thing, and even without that Koishi only has a MYS alltarget to pick unless you're subbing her or Mari as archmage, so if they resist MYS, sucks to be you. They're not really boss attacks... until Maribel awakens and suddenly it's a 328% MAG attack, worthy of casting even against a single target boss. Still edged out by subclass attacks hitting weakness, but it's usefully stable and you're often not hitting weakness anyway.

edit:It's also worth noting both void attacks are incredibly accurate. Maribel's has "Never Miss" and Koishi's has +100 acc. They're pretty much the epitome of stable random fight damage, especially once Maribel's becomes surprisingly strong for an alltarget.

[Nyxnyx]

There's very few VOI attacks from enemies, namely I think NONE before plus. Looks like most characters have a resistance rather than a weakness, too, if either- so it's a good thing more than a bad thing.

The Void attacks specifically state in their descriptions that next to no enemies resist it, so I wouldn't worry too much about it- but some do exist like Second Sun (as absolutely irrelevant as it is, there). If there's a Second Sun V2, maribel won't be using her awakened Liberated Abilities on it :V There's only 2 void attacks as it is, though, and only Maribel's is one of her best moves (after awakening)

cut:Well, the thing is, in random fights (as both of your void attacks are all-targets) the point is mostly that you aren't getting resisted, either, so the damage is stable. With 3~5 different enemies onfield, resistance can be a thing, and even without that Koishi only has a MYS alltarget to pick unless you're subbing her or Mari as archmage, so if they resist MYS, sucks to be you. They're not really boss attacks... until Maribel awakens and suddenly it's a 328% MAG attack, worthy of casting even against a single target boss. Still edged out by subclass attacks hitting weakness, but it's usefully stable and you're often not hitting weakness anyway.

edit:It's also worth noting both void attacks are incredibly accurate. Maribel's has "Never Miss" and Koishi's has +100 acc. They're pretty much the epitome of stable random fight damage, especially once Maribel's becomes surprisingly strong for an alltarget.

On the enemy part, that's what I thought until

Spoiler:

the 100th floor corridor boss and

Spoiler:

the kedama goddess.

. It randomly swap my frontline AND use some void move that deals 300k + damage in one move. Even Koishi who's suppose to be resistance to it took 220k damage. There's no defense against this unless it misses and I don't even know if the move is physical or magical.

[LazorPagoda]

So, I tried doing a new game + run using the all characters (plus disk included) save here on this forum, and I deleted my old save. Fml. But, I am using this opportunity to use new characters I didn't use. Before, like Byakuren, Sakuya, Mari and Renko. And some of my favorites of the new cast, Shou (obviously), Kokoro and Koishi, Futo and Miko. And I am going to do a synergy run, which means everyone but my tank, Tenshi and Yuyuko have synergies. But mabye Yuyu and Iku could swap out sometimes.