Author Topic: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center  (Read 33669 times)

So nice you've been working on this! I've been holding off playing DoD and NoR until there is some sort of story translation. Would also be happy with a google-translate at this point :)

Wow I'm impressed at the amount of work that has gone into this, including the animation. Mucho Kudos.

Validon98

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DoD detailed patch is also in progress but I dunno when I'll get it finished. All I know is man, the text space gives you a lot to work with.
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Validon98

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DoD detailed patch is almost done, still need to go through all the weapons and adjust things for Slayers and status effects, etc. However, there was another patch I ended up working on thanks to some inspiration from PrinnyAce. So, GoSV exists, it has a lot of differences that are impossible to replicate in the PC version without recoding the whole thing. What I can do however is port over the new stat growths.

See, in GoSV, they made it so that your stat growths start about the same, but at level 70 they're about the level of the PC version's level 99, and then go further beyond that to level 99, where some characters actually manage to cap their most powerful stats. I can't say the growths are 100% accurate to GoSV, and there are some other calculations that seem to have been changed to compensate for the higher overall stats, but it's still something that might be interesting-ish to try?

I don't know what other changes to GoS were made in the Vita version that I can more reasonably implement, like higher drop rates and changed synthesis recipes, but if there's any other changes I can reasonably implement, I'd like to make a "GoSV lite" patch, which offers as many of GoSV's changes as possible. Of course, there's also needing to make a detailed patch to go alongside it since GoSV is where the detailed power/accuracy/speed information first started, but that will come eventually.

Also, I made a sliiight edit to one of the image files, the one that displays what target and element a thing are. There's some other images I could probably edit, but that might be a bit rougher to do. Fixing a lot of the typos and mistakes in the images, and doing an overall retranslation of some things might be in the works, but it's definitely not on the forefront. GoS is very much "after handling DoD/NoR stuff". And even then, this is very much a "on my own time" thing, I'm not promising anything, but if I get stuff done I'll post it.

Posting to the downloads thread in a moment. Going to have to change the name of the thread too to match, since this is for a not TARC using game! Also not a translation thing so, something something "Translation and Gameplay Changes" patch?
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Validon98

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #94 on: May 05, 2018, 05:59:35 PM »
Okay I lost the post I was going to make but basically, yadda yadda got some NoR image stuff done but it's minor enough to not warrant a patch immediately, wanted to ask some advice on retranslating Clock Tower of the End and Demon Castle of Chaos from DoD, ideas are as follows:

Doomsday Clock Tower, Armageddon Clock Tower, Frashokereti Clock Tower (this refers to the Zoroastrian end times)

Pandemonia/Pandemonium
Castle Pandemonia/Pandemonium
Pandemonic Castle

Suggestions appreciated, little steamed that the internet ate my original post but what can you do?
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Jouhei

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #95 on: May 05, 2018, 06:46:38 PM »
Apocalypse Clocktower and Pandemonium sound good
"Surely you don't mean to imply I need a reason to control manipulate and kill! How about this? Seems good enough: I do all the wonderful things I do because I just love seeing the faces of people like YOU groveling in Despair, Grief, Sorrow, Dismay and all other sorts of?? Unpleasant Nouns. Oh, sorry 'bout that, guess I won't be able to see your miserable old face now will I?"
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R. P. Genocraft

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #96 on: May 05, 2018, 08:46:24 PM »
Doomsday Tower and Pandemonic Castle sound simple yet cool

Validon98

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #97 on: May 10, 2018, 05:00:16 AM »
No patch or anything right now, but I'm nearing the end of the game in DoD with testing the half element XP patch. I've realized now that the issue is not with the overall XP requirements, but rather the curve. Upon some analysis and comparing to NoR, I found the reason why.

In NoR, the curve rises sharply after element levels 30 and 40, 30 being roughly the breakpoint of where you'd get all of your endgame skills (which is achievable right as you reach Tower of Babel), and 40 being the breakpoint for most of your postgame skills (achievable in the midst of the expansion).

In DoD however, there are sharp rises at 20, 25, 30, and 40. The sharp rises at 20 and 25 might make sense for the sake of the somewhat sharp rises of element XP gained from Pandemonic Castle enemies (that translation is what I think I'm going with for that, btw), but the increases of element XP from Pandemonic Castle enemies does not match how sharp the increases are at 20 and 25. In short, the curve overcompensates.

Even with half XP requirements, the breakpoints are very noticable. I've just beaten Eirin and Kaguya and I've got 25/26 for element levels on my main physical characters. They have notably swapped their weapons around a tiny bit, so they raised completely different physical elements, and even then I can only estimate them being maybe around 27-28. This doesn't quite match up with the rough level 30 "this is where you should be at the final dungeon" from NoR.

So if I were to spend some more time on this, I'd rebalance the numbers so that the curve is flattened out up to level 30, then only breakpoints at 30 and 40. I'd need to do a lot of number finagling to make a new curve, though I can take the existing curve from 1-20 and extrapolate from there to 30 on a roughly linear curve, and then do a similar thing for levels 31-40 and 41-50.

Lots of words, tl:dr- will need to do a lot of work to fully fix the element XP curve to make sense.

EDIT: Oh, looked at it again, also there's another soft cap I forgot going from element level 9 to 10. There's so many of these, geez.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2018, 05:04:30 AM by Validon98 »
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Validon98

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #98 on: May 13, 2018, 07:59:11 AM »
Making a separate post for this since it's unrelated to the previous, but back to NoR and the potential for making other patches for it, I was curious and looked back in the enchant files, and noted that, huh, the enchants all have a "class" variable, what if I changed all the rare enchants to the same category as one of the other types?



Not only does it work, but I looked a bit more into it and each of those rare enchants, while not having an item associated with it, has an item amount associated with them. Not only that, but there is a dummied out item called "Barrier Stone" which has a description referring to rare enchants. So the thought process is that, if I were to make a drop patch, I think I'd undummy out Barrier Stones and adjust rare enchants to be able to be made with them. Probably only in the Dream Corridors, to make them an appealing place to maybe grind to actually get rare enchants, but not sure yet.

Ironically, the most expensive to make enchants, in terms of Barrier Stone cost, are the normal item drop ones. :V

As for the drop patch in general, there would be a multi-step process in "making it work" since the main issue is "trying to manipulate how much rare drops happen." And that would mainly be by adjusting the effects of the rare drop enchants to be more powerful ("rare drop up" just means "flat chance to make a chest gold when wearer of the rare drop chance up kills an enemy"). And then other than that, just adjusting chest drops rates to be higher, and screw drop rates to be higher to compensate for less screws overall appearing, while also slightly adjusting the screw drop tables to include Barrier Stones as a potential item.

For fun, since I dunno how I'll handle enchants, just going to list the in-game intended amount of Barrier Stones per enchant:

Drop Rate (Small)- 25
Drop Rate (Medium)- 30
Drop Rate (Large)- 35
Rare Drop Rate (Small)- 10
Rare Drop Rate (Medium)- 15
Rare Drop Rate (Large)- 20
MP+- 1
HP Drain- 5
Instant Revival- 25
All Attack- 25
Double Attack- 25
« Last Edit: May 13, 2018, 08:02:00 AM by Validon98 »
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Serela

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #99 on: May 15, 2018, 02:57:27 PM »
Lots of words, tl:dr- will need to do a lot of work to fully fix the element XP curve to make sense.
Yeah, in play, it didn't seem that bad until you started getting kinda far in and you just don't gain weapon levels anymore. It's mostly just the curves that need to get adjusted (with a minor overall reduction). It's mostly fine before 20, then the curve at 20 was kinda steep but you get there, but the curve at 25 is just insane, and at 30 you just plain stop gaining levels even with end-postgame grind.

However, even with grinding for shikigami you're pretty much always limited by your skill level and not monster levels, so it -does- need somewhat of a global decrease to match NoR.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Validon98

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #100 on: May 15, 2018, 05:59:00 PM »
I think I've finally figured it out, more or less. I went in and took the existing curve, took it out basically to the third derivative, and adjusted the values of the third derivative of the function to be more like a smooth exponential curve. The requires for element XP are still highish at the 40+ range, but the requirements, due to the new curve, are roughly 1/3rd that of the base game. The curve is slower than the half XP curve at first, but after level 10 it smooths out due to removing the large jump in needed XP, and eventually becomes faster than the half XP curve in places.



On the left is the original curve, on the right is the new adjusted curve. I'll post this up as a new patch shortly-ish. Also included will be a bit of a test of the detailed patch I was in the middle of making because I'm a little lazy to edit it back to being the old, not detailed patch. So that's a bonus? Maybe?

EDIT:

Though I put up the patch, I think I'm going to make one small edit. I started the required amount of XP for the first level as the same as base game, at 1000 element XP, but I think I'm going to quickly cut that to 500, same as is needed in the half XP patch. Ultimately this won't change much in the long run, but in the short run it'll make gaining element levels a little smoother. 1000 XP for the first level is just too high in general. I'm also going to make the initial increase in XP needed for the level after a bit smaller, but again, it will only mainly affect the early part of the curve.

SECOND EDIT:

Upon some more consideration, not going to change the initial requirements since that is caught up to fairly quickly in the normal level curve anyhow, so that won't change, but I did look again at the growth of the curve later on and saw it gets a little too high later on still, so I toned it down again. Going to post that up at least, but initial level is still going to be 1000.

THIRD EDIT (hopefully the last):

And link is updated with adjustments. Did some comparisons and basically while early on the requirements range from 50% to 100% depending on level, later on they're about 30%-40% of the original, for things like 30+ and up. So that ought to be good.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2018, 08:48:09 PM by Validon98 »
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Validon98

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #101 on: September 30, 2018, 01:01:47 AM »
Hurray for a double post, but after a few months of having busied myself with a bunch of IRL stuff, and a bunch of different games, I decided to go ahead and do the drop patch for NoR. I wanted to make it a bit more (read: a lot more) interesting, like being able to make it so that each enemy drops only one type of item for either normal/silver/gold chests, but the way drops are programmed makes some enemies share drop tables and that just got a bit too confusing so instead it's just a general drop rate increase across the board, around double for most monsters and 1.5x for monsters that already have a high drop rate. The screw drop rate is also massively increased, up to 100% in some areas, due to the increased chest rate meaning screws otherwise might drop rarely.

There's some added in testing stuff for other English things I've pushed in, like field descriptions, etc., stuff I would like to add in to the other patches that don't change gameplay but I'll get to it. My plan is to maintain three versions of the patch: the detailed patch (because having all that information like in GoSV/DoDW is much better than not having it), the doppel rate up patch, and the drop and doppel rate up patch. Maybe make the drop rate one separate but I dunno. I imagine if you're using the drop patch you'd want better doppel rates anyhow so why not just a general "all things up" patch.
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Serela

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #102 on: September 30, 2018, 04:54:48 AM »
Sounds like good times! Thanks for all the hard work, Validon <3 I've been using the DoD element level rate up patch.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Validon98

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #103 on: September 30, 2018, 08:28:09 PM »
Never got around to testing the most recent version of that patch, how's the progression on that been? I hope it strikes a better balance for getting levels.
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Serela

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #104 on: October 01, 2018, 12:05:50 AM »
tbh I didn't get super far... I got distracted by all these other games coming out instead of playing DoD like a fourth time XDD
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #105 on: October 02, 2018, 01:24:02 AM »
Livedoor JP wiki translation of DoD Festival (note most of these docs date from 2016, open in notepad if text is garbled):

1 - Collectibles
2 - Bestiary (Ability LV & EXP Points)
3 - Skills (Magic),
4 - Skills (Physical)
5 - Damage (Level Dependent Skill Table)
6 - Damage (Physical & Magic Correction Table)
7 - Element Strength STR Correction
8 - Shikigami Skills + Passive (Part 1)
9 - Shikigami Skills + Passive (Part 2)
10 - Element Damage Enhancement
11 - Element Resistance
12 - Slayer Strength
13 - Final Slayer Strength
14 - Formations
15 - Hit Determination
16 - Statuses (Permanent)
17 - Statuses (Variety)
18 - Statuses (Quick)
19 - Statuses (Field)
20 - Status Attribute Flags
21 - Status Enhancement
22 - Status Enemy Resistance
23 - Status Resistance
24 - Status Success Formula
25 - Spectacle of Destiny Effect ( you're supposed to train exactly like this -> LQ video)

These cover 33/41 pages of the wiki, left out are: 5 regarding damage (including Formula), Surprise Chance %, Turn Order (has the weight table), and the Remarks page partially. The rest of the old docs can be found here (LINK).

It's very likely I introduced a few inconsistencies, the name mechanics used for Hit Determination aren't used in game as far as I remember, however I know they don't match NoR translation ( Certain Hit / Reverse Certain Hit ).

Validon98

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #106 on: October 02, 2018, 01:38:14 PM »
Certain Hit/Reverse Certain Hit probably should be Direct Hit/Reverse Direct Hit. The concept in NoR is that Certain Hit activating will make an attack ignore all evasion and all other accuracy checks, similar to a crit, just that it doesn't then do 1.5x the hits.

EDIT: Reading through the Hit Determination notes, right, yeah Sure-Hit is basically that. Same concept, just with NoR specifically it means all hits go through, not just one.

SECOND EDIT: So I had a thought just now regarding the DoD SEXP curve, because it's something I'm constantly thinking about how to nail down. I'm somewhat uncertain at this point about the curve I put in. I'm thinking of doing an alternate patch that involves completely restructuring not only the curve, but the amount of SEXP monsters give.

The thought I'm having I did try before but had issues with because I made the mistake of trying to do it with monsters giving single digit SEXP with small SEXP requirements, but the internal math for that tended to truncate those single numbers into decimals that got floored to zero, making enemies basically drop no SEXP. The solution to that, I realize now, is to just multiply by ten and having "a single point" be internally 10 SEXP.

The idea from there is to try to roughly structure the curve to be roughly attainable in a certain number of battles, then having soft caps at points about where it would be time to go to the next stratum, with those soft caps multiplying the required amount of SEXP by about ten times, while similarly increasing SEXP from monsters in that stratum accordingly to make it so that if you want to level, you either grind heavily in the previous stratum, or just fight normally in the next stratum.

As a practical example, in the prologue players should be getting to about level 3 in their element. From 0 to 1 should be about 15 battles, 1 to 2 in 20 battles, and 2 to 3 in 25 battles, which should make everyone about level 3 by the end of Forest of Magic. Then the required SEXP should be increased heavily, so that it'd take a long time to get to level 4, but once first stratum starts, there would take about 10 battles for 3 to 4, 15 for 4 to 5, 20 to 5 for 6, etc. Level 12 is expected for end of first stratum, so 6 to 7 would be 21, 7 to 8 22, 8 to 9 23, 9 to 10 24, 10 to 11 25, and 11 to 12 25, before once again a major jump in SEXP. I would have to fine tune this, but I have a good idea as to how to do so.

The long and short of it is that it'll be set up more like AP is in FFV or something, at least in general scaling, to make figuring out the numbering and curves easier to figure out. The ultimate goal would to make it that to go from level 49 to 50, it would require killing one of the minibosses in the last part of Black Sanctuary about 20ish times, rather than the hundreds it would take normally.

The general benefit to this too is that characters trying to play catch up will be able to do so extremely easily, making trying new characters much less of a hassle.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 06:32:05 PM by Validon98 »
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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #107 on: October 02, 2018, 06:31:46 PM »
You mean the Sub-Hit system which is unique to NoR, not to be confused with Multi-Hit (e.g.: Agincourt) and Multi-Strike / Multi-Action (Weapon/DoD's Triple-Action), or whatever their proper names are.

EDIT: Thanks for going through the trouble of tuning Element LV EXP, it was one of the weakest points of DoD/NoR, everything else was a breeze to max in comparison.

On second look, the Quick table is missing descriptions for some of the more common statuses, and the F.Slayer Strenght table might not be complete (?).

Minor (but useful) gameplay Status tables from NoR: 1 - Damage Amplification, 2 - Damage Reduction, 3 - Enemy Status Success Rate

Anyone remembers what are the rare spawns in NoR's expansion on main central warp just before the mid-boss (
Spoiler:
Demon Lord
), graveyard area. I saw Darkonium Marisa and Unpolished Mirror, this last is very rare like 1%, but I wanted to know if there are others sub-doppels before proceeding.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 06:39:16 PM by Cjd2524 »

Validon98

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #108 on: October 02, 2018, 08:10:55 PM »
I'm wondering if it's more worth it just to decouple weapon skill learning from element levels altogether, even if that breaks the SaGa spirit of the game. In that case I'd say it'd be better to have weapon skill learning be entirely dependent on enemy level. The big thing that's a problem with going and trying to fix the element leveling curve is that the weapon skills tied to each tier have wildly varying levels at which they are learned. Standardizing that might be a way to make it simpler to do, and decoupling it from element levels would be another (and that in and of itself is also real easy to do, just set required element level for each skill to 0 while retaining the enemy level requirement). This also doesn't nullify the whole weapon skill learning type thing since that affects base chance to learn a move, so different characters will still have different chances at learning.

EDIT: I've decided to just make this as a patch, if people figure it might be a good alternate option. It uses the adjusted element XP curve as a basis, so earning levels is still faster, but now sparking skills is entirely decoupled from element levels (they're just set as 0 in the file). You do need to still match enemy level. I may or may not adjust this to make the ultimate, rarest skill of each type (like Flying Wheel) require to match very high levels, like those of the minibosses in the Black Sanctuary, but for now the RNG serves as the lock to those, since otherwise sparking them is extremely hard to do anyhow, even without the level requirement for it.
« Last Edit: October 03, 2018, 02:53:37 AM by Validon98 »
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Validon98

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #109 on: October 05, 2018, 01:24:50 PM »
Seperate post to notice that uh, oops, I accidentally left in something in the NoR drop patch that I shouldn't have from my messing around. I forgot I had made it so that you can just spend 5000 points to get any of the rare enchants. I wanted to do something with that to make it so you can set those at a very high price but I never got around to it so uh, oops, fixing that now and updating the drop patch. :'D

EDIT: And there. Same link, without giving access to enchants you shouldn't. :'D
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 01:29:23 PM by Validon98 »
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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #110 on: October 10, 2018, 07:00:09 AM »
Am I doing something wrong with applying the Nightmare of Rebellion patch? Nevermind, i'm an idiot.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2018, 12:48:21 PM by MsYakumo »

Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #111 on: October 31, 2018, 11:04:44 PM »
I recently tried to use the Genius of Sappheiros V stat growth rate patch, but now the game immediately closes on startup. I'm using version 3.01 instead of 3.00 if that matters.

Fenarth

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #112 on: April 17, 2019, 12:51:40 AM »
Where can I download/buy DoD Banquet for PC (preferably digital download I don't have CD drives)

I remember wanting to play this game like 7 years ago and tried to see if it was translated out of curiosity and here I am

I found a download for ver 2.xx but I can't seem to find banquet 3.03 on anything except Baidu which I have no access to

Serela

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #113 on: April 17, 2019, 03:47:20 AM »
I was able to find it on DLsite. https://www.dlsite.com/home/work/=/product_id/RJ141079.html

I saw it on amazon too where a related product was a dualpack of GoS:V and DoD:W for ps4 ._. I was honestly tempted even though I wouldn't be able to read them....... dang console-exclusive expansions.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #114 on: April 24, 2019, 11:33:00 PM »
Howdy all.
I was wondering if anybody had a place for me to purchase the pc version of NoR.
I just finished up with the switch port of GoS and wanna play the rest of bose's games, but can't find a good place to actually buy them.
I know this is a slightly off place to post but i was unsure which boarrd would be best to post this on.

nyttyn

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #115 on: May 07, 2019, 06:25:01 PM »
To clarify: Is DoD in a playable state? I wanted to give bose's other games a go and I saw the patches here, and noticed the game's half off. I was unable to tell though going through the thread if the detailed patch was ever finished. Would like to know if possible, thank you.

Serela

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #116 on: May 07, 2019, 06:34:36 PM »
To clarify: Is DoD in a playable state? I wanted to give bose's other games a go and I saw the patches here, and noticed the game's half off. I was unable to tell though going through the thread if the detailed patch was ever finished. Would like to know if possible, thank you.
The "detailed" patch was just putting damage formulas and stuff into skill descrptions IIRC; the game has been fully translated (apart from the dialogue) for a long time. It's not the kind of game where the dialogue is necessary to tell what to do, so that's fine; there's no sidequests or other weird things, you just keep exploring and fighting stuff and you're good to go.
I was wondering if anybody had a place for me to purchase the pc version of NoR.
All of Bose's games are 50% off on DLsite until May 13th, I think? Here's a link to NoR. If you want a physical copy, pretty sure they're on Amazon, but it's significantly more expensive. (Actually, looking back, I literally just posted a link to DoD on dlsite... NoR is in the related links on that! XD)
https://www.dlsite.com/home/work/=/product_id/RJ141080.html
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

nyttyn

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #117 on: May 07, 2019, 07:09:00 PM »
Welp, I guess I can't actually buy the games in the first place because they aren't on the English storefront, you can't use a paypal account for JP site purchases, and it's visa/mastercard credit only when I've only got an amex card.

Any other way around that, or is it just a total no go?

Serela

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Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #118 on: May 08, 2019, 10:32:13 PM »
Welp, I guess I can't actually buy the games in the first place because they aren't on the English storefront, you can't use a paypal account for JP site purchases, and it's visa/mastercard credit only when I've only got an amex card.
Buy one of those ~20 dollar prepaid visa/mastercards at a gas station or grocery store imo.
<mauvecow> see this is how evil works in reality, it just wears you down with bureaucracy until you don't care anymore

Re: Strawberry Bose Translation and Gameplay Changing Patch Center
« Reply #119 on: May 13, 2019, 03:33:21 AM »
Anyone have the codes for the reward doppels in NoR? I can't seem to find them anywhere.