My theory about Touhou and Gensokyo [Episode 1]

[Toushiro Scarlet]

And you don't think there's other, more mundane, less tenuous explanations for any of these things?

I list them out simply because there aren't any other possible solutions, and they are just simply too suspicious to ignore.

[Tengukami]

there aren't any other possible solutions

I mean ... yeah it's neat to consider "what if a completely fictional character stole my potato chips" but saying there are no other possible explanations for your chips' disappearance than Yukari is maybe kinda stretching it?

If anyone, it was Yuyuko.

[the old guy]

Yeah i agree with Amaterasu, I doubt it was Yukari who did all of those things, i mean:

One night, when I was about to leave the house with my mom for an appointment at 4am, I forgot the phone and went back into my house, and it was locked. At that time, no one except my dad was in there, and he was fast asleep at that time. (Actually, my mom interrogated him about locking the door and he said he didn't). I clearly remember that, none of us had locked the door when we went out of the house. So who did it?

Your dad was fast asleep when you got back, right? Maybe he was really tired and locked the door on reflex when he came home?

The second thing is that, when I play Touhou, my computer constantly crashes and glitches if I did badly. In one occasion, I yelled "Stop messing around with my computer, Yukari!" and the glitching stopped (for a while).

When did it stop glitching? If you had just started the game, then what happened was probably just an coincidence. Of course, even if it didn't stop glitching when you had just started it, it still could have been an coincidence.

The last thing, which just happened recently. My bags of potato chips have gone missing after leaving it in a plastic bag for about a month. I clearly remembered there are two bags of potato chips when I first leave it there, but there's only one when I discovered that bag.  (I'm certain that my parents didn't eat it).

If it was there for an month, then there was plenty of time for one of your parents to take it and then forget about it, or for you to have eaten it and then forget about it.
Or Yuyuko did it.

[Toushiro Scarlet]

Your dad was fast asleep when you got back, right? Maybe he was really tired and locked the door on reflex when he came home?

Actually, my dad was in the bed for the whole time since it was only 4am at that time. He only woke up when we discovered the door was locked and my mom called him out for it. That lock is fairly new and never went wrong before (and even after it!)

When did it stop glitching? If you had just started the game, then what happened was probably just an coincidence. Of course, even if it didn't stop glitching when you had just started it, it still could have been an coincidence.

It stopped glitching right after I told Yukari to stop messing with my computer. Actually, that major kind of glitch (If you played Undertale, it's like the "one day, they all disappeared without a trace" glitch in the Neutral Route right after Flowey crashes your game and overwrite your save file). never even happened before (and it never happened so far after I told Yukari to stop). All I got before was just minor lagging sort of stuff. and 90% of them are actually caused by forgetting to change my Chinese input into English one. (The rest 10%? idk ) Like you said, it could be just a coincidence. But it's quite suspicious anyway. (And why, just why, does the game crash when I constantly dies? It never crashes whenever I earns a high enough score though. Probably Yukari doesn't want Reimu got hurt over and over again?)

If it was there for an month, then there was plenty of time for one of your parents to take it and then forget about it, or for you to have eaten it and then forget about it.
Or Yuyuko did it.

My chips was stored under my bed, in my room. It was school holiday during that month, and you know, I'm an otaku with no life, so I literally got to stay in my room the whole day. My parents won't just break into my room and take my chips because they likes peanuts better (and they have heaps of them). I didn't eat any snack at that time because I had poor appetite, and it became hard for me to even finish my dinner.

I actually blame Yuyuko for this one as well, but Yukari could also just gapped my chip and ate it, or showed it to Yuyuko.

Besides, as I mentioned before, Yukari and Yuyuko is the only two that can travel across the barrier and into our world.

[Hope ♦ Metal]

My chips was stored under my bed, in my room. It was school holiday during that month, and you know, I'm an otaku with no life, so I literally got to stay in my room the whole day. My parents won't just break into my room and take my chips because they likes peanuts better (and they have heaps of them). I didn't eat any snack at that time because I had poor appetite, and it became hard for me to even finish my dinner.

I actually blame Yuyuko for this one as well, but Yukari could also just gapped my chip and ate it, or showed it to Yuyuko.

Besides, as I mentioned before, Yukari and Yuyuko is the only two that can travel across the barrier and into our world.

Clearly the bag of chips turned into a youkai and escaped.

[aListers]

All right. Now here is a point. Ever since I join the great church of Touhou, weird "supernatural"stuff keeps happening in my house.

The same kind of things happen to me but they've been happening for so long that I don't take a note of them - that coupled with the fact that I don't know when I started believing in this stuff (Which was likely before I even discovered Touhou) means that I have no proof that any of them are Yukari. A lot of them I've simply blamed on Ghosts.

The only 2 I can remember are the one time that it was proven not to be Yukari or a Ghost (My flatmate moved the fridge) and some point recently when my computer turned itself on.

[Sophilia]

As Sherlock Holmes said, once you have eliminated all the impossibilities, whatever remains must be the truth.  However, what Holmes didn't say is just how much process of elimination there has to be.  And believe me, it's a lot, especially when you start considering the supernatural.  Why assume Yukari other than bias?  Lies, spirits, demons, coincidence, ESP, gods, faulty memory, aliens...so many things could have been involved. 

Also, just gonna say it, a person being inspired to create a thing by the very thing they created seems like a nasty time loop to me.  Yukari probably wouldn't want any part of that business, she's had enough time screw when she was mortal already.

[Toushiro Scarlet]

The same kind of things happen to me but they've been happening for so long that I don't take a note of them - that coupled with the fact that I don't know when I started believing in this stuff (Which was likely before I even discovered Touhou) means that I have no proof that any of them are Yukari. A lot of them I've simply blamed on Ghosts.

Yeah. My life used to be really peaceful (which is last year)  before I actually tried to get in touch with the grand church of Touhou. Right after I made a vow saying that I will dedicate my life to protect Gensokyo, the weird stuff that never happened before just came out of nowhere. The lock, my computer, my chip, weird sound, my first Astral Projection, and even Yukari talked to me in my dream. I mean, there are a few ghosts in my house and I saw them when I first came in (which is around 2012), but how do you explain that those stuff NEVER happened before I became a faithful Touhouist?

[Tengukami]

but how do you explain that those stuff NEVER happened before I became a faithful Touhouist?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

[Hope ♦ Metal]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_razor

I don't know why that reminded me of the cognitive bias that I was thinking of, but here it is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

clearly the answer is magic

[Toushiro Scarlet]

Hmm.. Quite interesting

[Phantasmal]

Well, you're obviously a bright child. What's considered grade school again? 1st-5th? Right..? (I honestly can't remember lmao)
I've been thinking the same thing as you, really. The thing that knocks me down all the time is the message that ZUN always puts in the loading screen of each game. "This is a work of fiction, all objects and characters have entered Gensokyo."

But, could that really mean something else, too?
I don't know, it's fun to theorize. If Gensokyo is indeed real, I'd visit it any day. (risking your life is so cool lmao don't eat me rumia-san)  :V :ohdear:

[AzyWng]

Well, you're obviously a bright child. What's considered grade school again? 1st-5th? Right..? (I honestly can't remember lmao)
I've been thinking the same thing as you, really. The thing that knocks me down all the time is the message that ZUN always puts in the loading screen of each game. "This is a work of fiction, all objects and characters have entered Gensokyo."

But, could that really mean something else, too?
I don't know, it's fun to theorize. If Gensokyo is indeed real, I'd visit it any day. (risking your life is so cool lmao don't eat me rumia-san)  :V :ohdear:

To be honest, I just think that he put this in here to try to remind people not to get too upset about this.

I don't know how things are in Japan, but in the United States, there's an awful lot of people who can be surprisingly thin-skinned.

[Toushiro Scarlet]

Well, you're obviously a bright child. What's considered grade school again? 1st-5th? Right..? (I honestly can't remember lmao)
I've been thinking the same thing as you, really. The thing that knocks me down all the time is the message that ZUN always puts in the loading screen of each game. "This is a work of fiction, all objects and characters have entered Gensokyo."

But, could that really mean something else, too?
I don't know, it's fun to theorize. If Gensokyo is indeed real, I'd visit it any day. (risking your life is so cool lmao don't eat me rumia-san)  :V :ohdear:

~*~To be honest, even I don't want people to think (especially those upper-class people) about that Gensokyo is real. Seriously, just look around the world. What horrible stuff have we done? Polluting the air, chopping down the forest, whipping up wars that costs millions of lives and plunge countries into poverty, endless greed on money and resources... and Global Warming, all at the hands of humans. What if the US Goverment discovers that Gensokyo is actually real? What will they do? My bet is, 95% they will use a well-covered reason like "life-improving research for Youkai and Human" or "Protecting" to invade Gensokyo and set up their military base, build their big companies, snatching our resources and destroy our last sanctuary of hopes and dreams. If ZUN really wants to help out his buddy Yukari, or if he really loves Gensokyo, he would think the same way as me and won't let people recognize the reality of Gensokyo.~*~

That's why I'm now constantly searching for evidence that Gensokyo doesn't exist, to disprove my own theory I made earlier. Sadly, all my attempt had failed. (Either they are completely off the track or logically unreasonable)

[Tengukami]

That's why I'm now constantly searching for evidence that Gensokyo doesn't exist, to disprove my own theory I made earlier. Sadly, all my attempt had failed. (Either they are completely off the track or logically unreasonable)

You're in luck! The burden of proof is on proving Gensokyo exists; not on proving it doesn't.

Take for example the existence of God. One common troll on this subject is "God is real. Prove me wrong." This is exactly backwards. You don't start with the presumption that something wild and fantastical is real until proven otherwise; you need to prove the wild and fantastical thing is real. Until then, it is philosophically safer to assume the thing does not exist until proven otherwise. So rest assured Gensokyo is safe from marauding capitalism.

[aListers]

You're in luck! The burden of proof is on proving Gensokyo exists; not on proving it doesn't.

Take for example the existence of God. One common troll on this subject is "God is real. Prove me wrong." This is exactly backwards. You don't start with the presumption that something wild and fantastical is real until proven otherwise; you need to prove the wild and fantastical thing is real. Until then, it is philosophically safer to assume the thing does not exist until proven otherwise. So rest assured Gensokyo is safe from marauding capitalism.

I would argue that the "proof of burden" argument only gives credit to agnostics - not to atheists. The correct assumption of the argument is that there is a possibility of either being true - as that is all the argument proves. In this case, neither side has any real proof (albeit both sides have arguments which suggest their side is correct) and therefor it will come down to personal opinion. To me, "proof of burden" proves nothing and I treat it as such.

As far as I see it, proof of burden only stops me from spreading my beliefs.  It's only my opinion right now and should be treated as such - it is not a truth that all people should know.

[Phantasmal]

To be honest, even I don't want people to think (especially those upper-class people) about that Gensokyo is real. Seriously, just look around the world. What horrible stuff have we done? Polluting the air, chopping down the forest, whipping up wars that costs millions of lives and plunge countries into poverty, endless greed on money and resources... and Global Warming, all at the hands of humans. What if the US Goverment discovers that Gensokyo is actually real? What will they do? My bet is, 95% they will use a well-covered reason like "life-improving research for Youkai and Human" or "Protecting" to invade Gensokyo and set up their military base, build their big companies, snatching our resources and destroy our last sanctuary of hopes and dreams. If ZUN really wants to help out his buddy Yukari, or if he really loves Gensokyo, he would think the same way as me and won't let people recognize the reality of Gensokyo.~*~

I'm convinced that Yukari herself is enough to stop a military invasion.
Nuke? *gap it back*
Soldiers can't get past the Great Hakurei Barrier, we humans have little to no knowledge in magic and seals, so the entrance would be tiny and easy to close if that was required.
Airstrike? Lol, they wouldn't know where to strike, and they'd never find it because of the previously stated Great Hakurei Barrier, not only does it protect Gensokyo, it hides it, too!

[Toushiro Scarlet]

I would argue that the "proof of burden" argument only gives credit to agnostics - not to atheists. The correct assumption of the argument is that there is a possibility of either being true - as that is all the argument proves. In this case, neither side has any real proof (albeit both sides have arguments which suggest their side is correct) and therefor it will come down to personal opinion. To me, "proof of burden" proves nothing and I treat it as such.

As far as I see it, proof of burden only stops me from spreading my beliefs.  It's only my opinion right now and should be treated as such - it is not a truth that all people should know.

That's exactly why I began my research on Quantum Mechanics just a few days ago.

I'm convinced that Yukari herself is enough to stop a military invasion.
Nuke? *gap it back*
Soldiers can't get past the Great Hakurei Barrier, we humans have little to no knowledge in magic and seals, so the entrance would be tiny and easy to close if that was required.
Airstrike? Lol, they wouldn't know where to strike, and they'd never find it because of the previously stated Great Hakurei Barrier, not only does it protect Gensokyo, it hides it, too!

Still, that means lots of trouble to Yukari-sama,as well! But it would be awesome to see that happen! (You know how lazy she is, she's on the same level as Sans!)

[Tengukami]

I would argue that the "proof of burden" argument only gives credit to agnostics - not to atheists. The correct assumption of the argument is that there is a possibility of either being true - as that is all the argument proves. In this case, neither side has any real proof (albeit both sides have arguments which suggest their side is correct) and therefor it will come down to personal opinion. To me, "proof of burden" proves nothing and I treat it as such.

This is a false equivalence. The entire Flying Spaghetti Monster meme was created years ago to underline this.

If you step forward with a claim like "the Flying Spaghetti Monster is real", the burden of proof is not on everyone else to prove the contention wrong; the burden of proof is on the person making the claim to prove that it's right. Since people can't seem to get their heads around this idea when you talk about something as socially engrained as God, the FSM was made up to show how ridiculous it is to seriously argue that the burden of proof lies with those who deny the existence of a deity. This is like Philosophy 101-level stuff.

[aListers]

This is a false equivalence. The entire Flying Spaghetti Monster meme was created years ago to underline this.

If you step forward with a claim like "the Flying Spaghetti Monster is real", the burden of proof is not on everyone else to prove the contention wrong; the burden of proof is on the person making the claim to prove that it's right. Since people can't seem to get their heads around this idea when you talk about something as socially engrained as God, the FSM was made up to show how ridiculous it is to seriously argue that the burden of proof lies with those who deny the existence of a deity. This is like Philosophy 101-level stuff.

You still can't prove that it doesn't exist though. It's only through common sense (which can't be taken as proof) that a normal person would deny the existence of the monster. The FSM believer would only be burdened when trying to spread the belief as trying to change somebody's opinion is harder. However, without proof, the believer cannot have his belief disproven. There is still a chance that this sarcastic response could be true and that there is a flying spaghetti monster - even if it does sound absurd. A reasonable response would be "due to the nature of spaghetti as I know it, in my opinion the chance of a flying spaghetti monster existing is low." not "there is no proof of a flying spaghetti monster therefor I'm sure it does not exist." The low chance is still a thing that exists and therefor the other person's argument still stands - even if it does sound silly. Silly things are sometimes true - it once again comes down to personal opinion.

I would argue that the burden of proof lies on the challenger not the believer. If a person tells another that is "X is real" then they should prove it. If a person tells another "X isn't real" then they should prove it. Otherwise the argument cannot be solved.

[Drake]

obligatory mention that the position of atheist is not to claim that some/any god doesn't exist, which ammy probably just assumed people were already aware of

listers is mixing up the nature of belief versus argumentation and equating "you don't have to believe x because y" with "i claim x isn't true because y and so you shouldn't believe x" so this is getting silly fast

[Tengukami]

I would argue that the burden of proof lies on the challenger not the believer. If a person tells another that is "X is real" then they should prove it. If a person tells another "X isn't real" then they should prove it. Otherwise the argument cannot be solved.

I mean, you can believe whatever you like, I guess. But if X says "A is real", yes, they need to show it, but the converse is not that the challenger needs to prove it doesn't. Rather, in the absense of proof A is real, we do not know one way or the other if it is or isn't.

That said, in cases like Gensokyo, I think it would be deliberately obtuse to contend Gensokyo may or may not exist until someone proves one or the other. Feels weird even having to write that out.

[Toushiro Scarlet]

Still. There's so many things that, in this universe, that can't be explained by using any means. Humans are quite curious species and will always trying to explain them, but even if we did successfully unravels the mystery, we will never know what will happen after it, nor any negative impact that we will bring to them So, sometimes, it's best to keep them as a secret. (Although I hate to say it, but remember, it's actually rationalism that forced Youkai into Gensokyo in the first place.)
But still, it's quite fun to theorize! I don't think Yukari will mind (She haven't shown up lately, both in dreams and in my house. I wonder what is she doing all this time?) so expect more updates!

(Status Update: Somehow, according to Chinese philosophy, I found out that my past life had some connection with Gensokyo, although what the connection is remains undiscovered.)

[R.P.]

So far this is one of the greatest thread I ever read, the three theories so far are all fun and interesting, but I have some doubts, granted that I'm reading this very late in the night (at least in mine country) so I may be missing something or making mistakes; lets start with the questions: The first one is about the first theory (by the way as of now I believe more on the Zun is Yukari friend theory) if Yukari and Gensokyo had been created the way you said didn't it mean that some other author can create something like Yukari and Gensokyo in the same way ?
and if it is true with all the things umans fantasy gave birth to  isn't rather unlikely that someone haven't yet created something with the same dimensional travel skills of Yukari but more notable ? And if Zun was able to create Yukari, what prevents us to try creating a Yukari-like creature with Yukari like powers and the will to inequivocably show itself to us to prove or disprove this theory ?

The third theory and the strange event are also pretty dobious: The whole thing may actually be either you conditioning yourself you are having paranormals experiencies, you being a troll, you slowly getting crazy or something of this type, but that just my common sense speaking here, lets that the rest of me believes/is still dubious about it mostly for the fun of it, maybe tomorrow I will analize it in a more scentific way, since then if you aren't a troll or something and happen to see her again say hello to Yukari for me please

[Toushiro Scarlet]

Thanks for the feedback! I know that I might sound like I'm on drugs or something because literally I'm just a twelvie. But anyway, those things are just theories on my point of view, so inevitably there will be some mistakes being made. Now I have looked more into the old folklores and philosophy work left by the ancient Chinese and Japanese, I have a better understanding of supernatural things. (Again, sorry for the bad logic and horrible grammar!) 

Personally, like you, I also more leaned to the Yukari and ZUN friendship theory. Not only it is more reasonable, but also less ambiguous in some way. I mean, the first time I touched the Touhou franchise I just noticed something different than other work. It sort of, just feel different, like, in a sense, it was too "real". If the other artists were to create a character like Yukari, then there IS a possibility that the character can well, come to life in some way and mess with our dimension. But, consider it, if this could happen, then the terrorists will have a far easier time doing their job. There is still too many doubts about this theory and I will have to look deeper to find the answer (Which could take 100 years!)

Well, there are also many  researches going on about astral projection, and I sort of just experienced it at that time. However, there is one thing for sure in an astral projection that differs it from a normal dream, is that you can remember the dream very vividly, even after a long time, compared to a normal dream, which is almost instantly forgotted when waking up.

[Drake]

how would you be able to tell that you can remember astral projection dreams if you just forget all of the other ones

[Hope ♦ Metal]

If the other artists were to create a character like Yukari, then there IS a possibility that the character can well, come to life in some way and mess with our dimension. But, consider it, if this could happen, then the terrorists will have a far easier time doing their job.

I have no clue how you got to that conclusion. How would terrorists benefit from a character like Yukari? (Besides the obvious using gaps to create chaos or something.)

[Toushiro Scarlet]

I have no clue how you got to that conclusion. How would terrorists benefit from a character like Yukari? (Besides the obvious using gaps to create chaos or something.)

That's the point. The terrorist can create a character with Yukari's power who have an insane personality to help them spreading terror and chaos

[the old guy]

I don't really agree with the Yukari and Zun Are Friends theory, because ZUN called Yukari "Nasty" in a recent interview.

Source:
http://pastebin.com/Kiatum4a

ZUN:[Talking About Danmaku patterns] The very common situation is when I want to create a specific attack I want to create a character for that specific attack.
So if there's a fast attack I make a character that looks fast.
And if it's a nasty-looking danmaku I make a character that's really nasty looking."
Fan: What's a nasty character?
ZUN: "...Yukarin?" (Audience roars with laughter)

[Drake]

obligatory mention that it was more accurately "unpleasant" or more generally something that evokes a negative emotional reaction