Powercreep and Dragons Thread XXVII: Making Juggler less OP all day everyday

[Suikama]

SKILL FUSION WHAT THE FUCK

YOU GET A DKALI ACTIVE AND YOU GET A DKALI ACTIVE EVERYONE GETS A DKALI ACTIVE

Also holy moly ult urd is hot :V


Huh looks like the second inherted skill has a CD penalty equal to their base CD

Which means Isis is one of the best inherters BV

And also gunma lol

[Chaore]

Also holy moly ult urd is hot :V

for once yeah

jesus shit not gonna lie urd stepped her game way up

[MatsuriSakuragi]

AWOKEN PANDORA AND SUPER ULT URD SO PRETTY AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA


Also I did roll godfest, and went 3/4 unique rolls:
1) Arcline (instasell, Sun Quan is better for healers and Thor is better for Light)
2) Amaterasu (finishing off JP1 collection, and I've been wanting Awoken Ammy as a sink for my shynpy overload)
3) Kaede (a little too late for me to really need her, but definitely some of my favorite art ever and I'd love to raise her. A shame her skillup will be changed to Sonias soon most likely...)
4) Pollux (super pretty and I guess the game wants me to step my Light game up)

[Chaore]

i propose we start riots for awoken taquito

if we're loud enough i might atleast get a chance to fly to japan to punch yamap

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I'm beginning to think yamap had a traumatic fire experience as a child and that's why fire is super neglected and forever doomed to farming teams

[Espadas]

People on other forums are already firing up discussions over A.Pandora possibly screwing up other teams like Yomidra (since she would enjoy D/D Haku, instead of Awoken)
I look at my 2 Pandora AND 2 Haku...... and laugh uncontrollably  :smug:

That AS fusion looks incredibly game-changing.... there will be horrific requirements i'm sure  :V


EDIT: Uh, did my one yoloroll for this godfest and out come..... FREYR. But the only real fire team i possess is A.Shiva.

Is A.Freyr useful as a sub for A.Shiva?
I mean, he boost fire and have 2 TPA so he certainly fit well but i already have:

Hino Kagutsuchi
Set
Valen
Urd
Cao Cao
Rozuel
Yamato Takeru

i practically have all the best subs bar Femme.... would Freyr ever get a spot?

[Ruka]

Decided to roll until I got tired or ran out of gems.

Sakuya (ok. Not bad)
Red Tsubaki (good)

And....



HOLY SHEAT

[Jq1790]

One roll, and not bad at all.

>GOdin

About time I get one of the normal ones of him.

[commandercool]

It's less the playstyle and more either "whoops you picked a BAAAAD color for that" or "maybe back to the drawing board for new strats".

Pick yourself up, figure out if there's some way to rectify your issues you had, then go back at a later Challenge and kick Vish to the curb!

Once again I'm getting less of a "bad color for that" feel and a "bad color period" vibe from the game right now. Every game design sensibility I have is driven fucking crazy by the fact that this game has five colors and two of them are just straight up, literally better than the others.

Maybe I'll figure it out, but right now the answer looks like "don't play the shitty useless colors" and I'm not really okay with that. I'm sorry, this is just me being cranky some more, please disregard it.

You do realize that there is actually a way to change this, if not immediately available due to funds...

Yeah, potentially. But there are two problems with that. One is the aforementioned funds, since I couldn't be farther away from affording one of those right now. And the other is the fact that my team is pretty tight on actives already. It's not like I just have a useless member who doesn't do anything that I can cut to handle one specific enemy, especially since I have to deal with Shiva afterward. Maybe that inflexibility means my team just sucks and will never succeed, but I don't have room. Except...

SKILL FUSION WHAT THE FUCK

I will refrain from commenting on this until we know more about it.

Also holy moly ult urd is hot :V

Goddamn, yeah she is.  :V

Also decided to do one REM pull today because my 600 day login bonus is soon and I actually kind of really like the constellations, so another one of those (especially black or red to replace the black and red Valkyries I really wish I had but don't) would be great.

-Castor

Yaaaaaay. Once we have some skillups for these I feel like this guy opens a lot of doors for black teams. My black monsters have been split down the middle between rows and prongs for a long time, and he plays well with both.

[Suikama]

Wow C10 this time was actually pretty fun, although it did help a lot that I didnt get screwed over by skyfalls this time.

Used DKali, Okuni, Kushi, EXHYDRA as subs, which just goes to show that despite all the meta changes, delay is actually still the most OP active if there are no status shields

I also like 7x6 more than 6x5 because there's much less chance of orb trolls and way more board to solve. Like going Vishnu into Shiva was super tense since I had to solve a board that was flooded with jammers with no active but it was still clearly possible thanks to 7x6. It was also a lot more possible to get by with just one DKali active because again, low chance of orbtroll


also incoming wall of text on skill fusion because every time gungho announced a new mechanic i just cant help myself

and also because it's basically the biggest isis buff ever (and likely not so much for everyone else)

[MatsuriSakuragi]

I think it would be a good idea to reserve assumptions on the mechanic until we know precisely how it works

[Edible]

no eschamali ;_;

come back eschamali, I didn't mean what I said ;_;

[commandercool]

It just occurred to me that Shinji is a marginally acceptable NepDra sub. I can't really justify cutting something for him, but I really want to...

Edit: Just spent a long-ass time tinkering with my PADHerder and it should be up to date for the moment. Not that anyone probably cares, but if for some reason you do now's the time to look at it before it becomes woefully incorrect again.

[Suikama]

I think it would be a good idea to reserve assumptions on the mechanic until we know precisely how it works

too late :getdown:

So here are the facts that are known so far

• There is some way to transfer active skills
• You can transfer the active skill of REM cards, as they showed Bestsis with Dkali active oh baby
• Using one active resets the cooldown of both actives
• The second skill will have a higher cooldown than normal (DKali's active on Isis has 10cd)
• The CD of the added skill seems to be equal to it's base CD + your other active CD (they showed Isis with DKali active +3cd and Gunma with aHades active +1)

So gameplay wise the only thing we don't know is how you get to pick one active over the other in battle.
I think that either :
a. there's some way of picking when both cds are charged, like double tapping on the card for the second active or something. However from the screenshot it doesn't look like there's another button.
Or
b. the second cd basically takes over the first when you've charged enough. So like at turn 3-9 Isis has her shield, but at turn 10+ her active is replaced with DKali.

If the first is true that would actually be quite OP. Not only does every card get potential unparalleled utility (like Ra Dra with DKali active, Sakuya with LKali active, etc.) skill delays basically become useless since your second skill protects your first from ever being delayed unless gungho starts adding 10+ cd delays. Also you'll have up to 20 actives to pick from in coop mode LMAO
If the second is true, then on top of the fact that the CDs get added, this makes the skill inheritance system actually pretty useless for most cards. For cards that have crucial actives like dkali, you don't want to risk having your active being replaced at a bad moment. Meanwhile for Isis it's not such a big deal if her active gets replaced, especially if its by something like a stronger shield (Indra active on Isis yess plsssss). It would also make Gunma a very interesting sub as it basically becomes an option to add whatever active you want with only a 1 cd penalty

Hey trance can you translate this image :derp: http://i.imgur.com/iU9W0WV.jpg

[Thaws]

From what I've read it's close to your 2nd assumption.
So you'd go --(3 turns later) --> Quick Guard --(10 turns later) --> All drop change --(3 turns later)---> Quick guard ---->.... (repeat)

Which does make it seem annoying as you might get Quick Guard when you needed the board flush, or All Drop change when you needed to unbind.

However, they did also say the details will be revealed on the 2/19 stream so nothing is set in stone until then.

[OverlordChirei]

One other thing I should add, is that this greatly benefits stall/tank teams, as they can easily tank out for the additional CD if it is needed for a crucial breakpoint, like say if ccool wanted to put Charite's active on gabe. 20+ turns to use it that one time is no big deal, since you're probably just going to use it that one time and then gabe's regular active the rest of the way.

What concerns me more is how the actives can be selected. I hope they're both just available all the time since using one resets both anyway, because I have heard silly stuff like "it swaps every turn", which would just be horrendously stupid.

[commandercool]

Okay, I said I wouldn't comment until I know more, but I'll say this: If it does indeed disable the original skill at least some of the time I think it will be very cumbersome, even on a stall team that can play defensively to wait for it to become available. I stalled on Vishnu for 249 turns yesterday, and during that time I needed all of my actives much of the time to stay alive. If, for example, Snow White's heartmaking phased in and out of usability periodically throughout the fight it would have made things much more difficult. However I might have been able to win if I had had that option, so it may have been worth it.

There are all sorts of implications of that and I really shouldn't get into them right now, but I think it's safe to say if it does work that way I would have no problem putting the blue puppet's active on Reine. And then probably investing heavily in water resist latents, probably overwriting many of my existing latents to do so.

[Thaws]

What concerns me more is how the actives can be selected. I hope they're both just available all the time since using one resets both anyway, because I have heard silly stuff like "it swaps every turn", which would just be horrendously stupid.

http://i.imgur.com/iU9W0WV.jpg

fyi, the image suikama linked to says

Skill 2: All Drop Change
Change all drops to 5 colors+heart
10 turns until it can be next used (the usual text on skills, I'm not sure what the wording's like on NA PAD)
Would you like to use skill 2?
[Activate] [Cancel]
______________________________________________
Skill 1: Quick Guard
3 turns until skill 1 can be used

I'm not sure if making both skills available would be too OP but having them alternate sounds really stupid to me, and encourages people to raise like different Isis, one with just quick guard, one with all drop change, just for different situations, which is probably what they wanted...

[Suikama]

fyi, the image suikama linked to says

Skill 2: All Drop Change
Change all drops to 5 colors+heart
10 turns until it can be next used (the usual text on skills, I'm not sure what the wording's like on NA PAD)
Would you like to use skill 2?
[Activate] [Cancel]
______________________________________________
Skill 1: Quick Guard
3 turns until skill 1 can be used

I'm not sure if making both skills available would be too OP but having them alternate sounds really stupid to me, and encourages people to raise like different Isis, one with just quick guard, one with all drop change, just for different situations, which is probably what they wanted...

Yeah I had a feeling it said something like that, which is what lead me to think the second skill overrides the first when charged, since there's no button to switch actives. I mean on top of that in the picture you can see a second border surrounding the cards that have thier second active charged.

Also yeah either way this encourages having dupes, which isn't necessarily a bad thing for people who keep rolling a million dupes


Also cards that take advantage of this feature the most (especially assuming the second skill overrides the first):

• Any strong leader with a situational/non-essential active. So like Ra Dragon, Sakuya, Horus etc. Having another skill basically lets you have an option for really hard bosses that need a specific active to beat, such as vs Predras, Vishnu, Illsix etc. This is actually HUGE for Ra Dragon as it lets him beat Illsix with ease in Arena 2 while basically not hindering anything else by stacking Z&H active on his own. It also makes Kali in Arena 1 much easier to the point where you won't need Indra+Resists (omg yes PLS). For regular dungeons the gravity will almost never even come into affect becuase of the huge 55(lmao)-36 turn cooldown, but for arena it's actually viable to stall for that long (hi parvati).
  Isis....Actually it would be hilarious to just stack Z&H on EVERY card on every team. You just get to gravity nuke every single lategame boss like you're goddamn lucifer :V
• Isis of course. She might be seeing spots on a lot more rainbow and water teams now, since the only thing that was holding her back before was the limited power of her active. Now that limitation is gone and she still has the same amazing utility and type coverage with DKali. I should probably get to hypermaxing my second Isis BV
• Gunma, which has a 1 turn cd and pretty solid stats. It's awakenings are still trash though so you are being hindered by slapping him on your team.
• The weapon series. 3 turn cd like Isis with double SB and TPA and decent stats. And they exist for every element
• Ceberus Rider. 2 turn CD with really high attack and double TPA mean he hits hard and cna now bring in the utility for dark teams. He even has SBR.

Unless they make it only works for REM cards though. They obviously have to have some system that prevent you from just using easy farm mats to give actives to whoever you want. Maybe it will be like guaranteed skillups in that you can only transfer skills of a max leveled ultimate evo card, and since it's gungho you'll probably have to max skill both skills at the same time as well before you can do it, and maybe buy a special transfer item for MP on top of that[/list]

[Suikama]

Okay, I said I wouldn't comment until I know more, but I'll say this: If it does indeed disable the original skill at least some of the time I think it will be very cumbersome, even on a stall team that can play defensively to wait for it to become available. I stalled on Vishnu for 249 turns yesterday, and during that time I needed all of my actives much of the time to stay alive. If, for example, Snow White's heartmaking phased in and out of usability periodically throughout the fight it would have made things much more difficult. However I might have been able to win if I had had that option, so it may have been worth it.

There are all sorts of implications of that and I really shouldn't get into them right now, but I think it's safe to say if it does work that way I would have no problem putting the blue puppet's active on Reine. And then probably investing heavily in water resist latents, probably overwriting many of my existing latents to do so.

Before you screw yourself on latents, fyi the puppets change enemies into the att they are good against, so you'd want FIRE resists not water

[OverlordChirei]

Skill 2: All Drop Change
Change all drops to 5 colors+heart
10 turns until it can be next used (the usual text on skills, I'm not sure what the wording's like on NA PAD)
Would you like to use skill 2?
[Activate] [Cancel]
______________________________________________
Skill 1: Quick Guard
3 turns until skill 1 can be used

That seems really dumb... so the moment one is charged, it starts charging the other one??? I feel like it should just use an internal charge counter and have both actives be available like a super meter, with the second skill on the notably longer CD... it still wouldn't mean you can use it on anybody since it would use up all the charges for either one, but it would allow less-meta teams to finally punch through stuff without some silly alternation mechanic.

Also, this is how it's worded on NA PAD...



I can't wait to be able to have Alraune cast God Gravity or Wrath of God on Kali so I can finally beat Arena...

[The Greatest Dog]

Yo CCool when do we see Freezing Shift on Neptunedora starts?

[Suikama]

oh wait somehow i read that wrong

...so it sounds like it does rotate?

well i guess it becomes a game a skill timer management then?

[Thaws]

Tbh though this sounds very weird right now
The idea itself would benefit bastet alot because her active is currently to nullify time reduction used by very selective bosses and is otherwise only a LS trigger.
Any other alternative active would bump her potential by alot.
Such a mechanics also lets more teams has a better chance at stuff like arena because MPDras pretty much force you to have an ignore-def skill so viable parties are very limited right now. It's impossible for many teams to simply fit all the utility they need for arena within 6 actives.

I hope they do manage to make this work
It's a huge interesting change but a wrong step can break PAD.

[commandercool]

Yo CCool when do we see Freezing Shift on Neptunedora starts?

Uh.

Oh.

Probably never, because I really hope that doesn't actually work.

And I will never abandon Beyzul! Never! Unless it turns out that does work.

[Suikama]

oh i totally forgot i have a pandora

awoken pandora might actually be interesting since i dont have FA luci

[Jq1790]

Got another roll, got Unicorn Rider.  I'm ok with this.

My recent gold rate has been pretty good, have I think a ~7 streak going.

[Monarda]

I looked it up and got really interested to play, went to the Google Playstore and then:

"This App isn't available in your country."
;-; No fair.... It seems so cool, isn't there any other way ?

[commandercool]

So regarding Freezing Shift Neptune Dragon isn't that good after all. I assume swapping back would take what, 22 turns? A lot of the utility of Beyzul comes from the fact that you can quickly change back after he's done his job. Although NepDra/Ryune would obviously be a lot more stable than Beyzul/Ryube for stalling I guess.

[Suikama]

so i was thinking about what actives would be great to add to other cards

stuff like delays, gravities, shields, true damage, and damage enhance

damage enhance

with cards

like


muse





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