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| 12th Touhou Series Popularity Contest! |
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| CyberAngel:
--- Quote from: Espadas on January 24, 2016, 02:21:26 AM ---Doesn't matter how many votes you have, you WILL have to cut someone out. Sure, more votes means more chances to be voted but it's still a matter of how much you like her. --- End quote --- Ahem. --- Quote from: CyberAngel on January 23, 2016, 12:05:08 PM ---that was true in the past as well, but that didn't stop her from actually gaining popularity over time. --- End quote --- --- Quote from: CyberAngel on January 23, 2016, 12:05:08 PM ---And she has less 1st place votes than she EVER did before. --- End quote --- Could you please read the whole posts instead of just the first two sentences from now on? It's kinda hard to have an actual discussion otherwise. |
| Espadas:
My post wasn't intended as a counter to what you said. I didn't quote the latter part of your post because you made valid points. I was explaining why I personally believe "you can't vote for everyone" is a factor in her mediocre standing. The fact that this time she actually lost popularity and 1st place votes is probably a combinations of many things. This obviously is a shot in the dark, but maybe a part of the people who put her first in the past found the newest characters (like Kishin or Clownpiece) very appealing and "demoted" her to second, third etc place, making her lose points despite being voted by roughly the same amount of people. |
| Raikaria:
--- Quote from: game2011 on January 23, 2016, 04:28:41 AM ---Who says character designers can't decide to say something funny or something wrong (not saying he's wrong, since there can't be anything wrong about this)? If he says something like Kisume's inspiration and character design is actually based off how he envisions himself as a female, decapitating people and all, are you really going to take that seriously? He can say the same thing for Alice, about her being the hitbox for her dolls. Miyamoto once said he is Bowser Jr.'s mother and no "just kidding" afterwards. Yeah... Sure, he more than likely means he designed him and not literally gave birth to him, but I'm sure the interviewers wanted to know Bowser Jr.'s literal mother when they asked that. ZUN's intention was perhaps "I wanted to create a male character for once, but since it's strange for one to be directly attacking male opponents in a female-heavy series (Shingyoku doesn't exist, lol), I've decided to accompany him with a female character who you must hit." Show me what he said, and we'll talk. But even so, change in ideas are clearly made during the development process. If Unzan is supposed to be the actual character, then why doesn't he have any dialogues, character development, and adequate amounts of screentime? Instead, we had Ichirin do all the talking and stealing all the fame. Before creation, one could say that Unzan was supposed to be the actual character, but that clearly is no longer the case by the time the game came out. For a series that focuses on females, ZUN should know better than to create a character duo where the male is more important than the female. To be fair, it can go either ways depending on the point of view. From ZUN's POV, he created Ichirin with the intention of her being Unzan's hitbox, but you cannot deny that he also made her her own character. In the actual story, she's not, like, a projection of Unzan or some kind of growth attached to him. Everything she does and say are all her own. Unzan is not her true identity nor is he using her to express himself, so as far as the series's lore goes, Ichirin is completely her own entity. --- End quote --- Except she hardly had a personality at all in UFO. Her personality was basically 'Why are you following the ship' and loyalty enough to Byakuren to join Shou and Murasa. Her 'personality' on the wiki is one sentence. Unzan has three. And he doesn't even speak. I've not played 13.5/14.5 so I cannot speak for her being fleshed out there, but in UFO, she was hardly even a character. Combine this complete lack of characterization with her in-game purpose [In both UFO and 13.5/14.5; where the attacks performed by her proper are minimal] and the fact ZUN said as much; and you can see why it's hardly a joke to say 'Ichirin is Unzan's hitbox'. A joke is something like Sakuya and Pads; or Yuyuko eating everything [Instead of just being somewhat gluttonous like IN suggests]. I cannot find the actual quote from ZUN himself; but it's mentioned several times on the wiki that ZUN said this is the case. Admittedly the wiki is not 100% reliable; but it also quotes SoPM: --- Quote ---'Essentially, Unzan is the Stage 3 boss of Undefined Fantastic Object, not Ichirin; Ichirin herself came as a way to have an actual character on the screen for an hit box according to ZUN. When trying to think of what type of youkai to call Ichirin in Part 3 of Symposium of Post-mysticism, even Byakuren, who calls herself an expert on youkai, could only hesitantly refer to her as "um... a controller of a giant nyuudou." --- End quote --- Her character is so flat she doesn't even have a species. Even Byakuren basically calls her Unzan's Hitbox in canon. Made even more supported by another SoPM quote: --- Quote ---You stand no chance of defeating Ichirin while Unzan is protecting her, and it is impossible to harm Unzan in the first place. --- End quote --- |
| Spotty Len:
Yay, I was waiting for this. https://twitter.com/kirai_s/status/691194998209925121 |
| game2011:
--- Quote from: Raikaria on January 24, 2016, 11:54:10 AM ---Except she hardly had a personality at all in UFO. Her personality was basically 'Why are you following the ship' and loyalty enough to Byakuren to join Shou and Murasa. Her 'personality' on the wiki is one sentence. Unzan has three. And he doesn't even speak. I've not played 13.5/14.5 so I cannot speak for her being fleshed out there, but in UFO, she was hardly even a character. Combine this complete lack of characterization with her in-game purpose [In both UFO and 13.5/14.5; where the attacks performed by her proper are minimal] and the fact ZUN said as much; and you can see why it's hardly a joke to say 'Ichirin is Unzan's hitbox'. A joke is something like Sakuya and Pads; or Yuyuko eating everything [Instead of just being somewhat gluttonous like IN suggests]. I cannot find the actual quote from ZUN himself; but it's mentioned several times on the wiki that ZUN said this is the case. Admittedly the wiki is not 100% reliable; but it also quotes SoPM: Her character is so flat she doesn't even have a species. Even Byakuren basically calls her Unzan's Hitbox in canon. Made even more supported by another SoPM quote: --- End quote --- Unzan not speaking at all hurts his characterization a bit when compared to someone who actually speaks. The fighting games do offer more insight into Ichirin's personality, such as having something of a temper issue, what with her rage mechanic. Again, Unzan has no speaking roles in those games and does nothing more than acting as her silent servant. Her having a higher ranking than Unzan in the poll makes a lot of sense if you actually know something about her. To say that she has completely zero characterization shows how little you know about her. You can't always rely on the Wiki. Playing the games she appears in will give you more insight about her than a couple of passages on a page that can be edited by anyone. She is the mastermind of the duo, the brain of the operations, while Unzan is nothing more than a silent and obedient servant who does everything she says and will not act on his own. As said before, Unzan being silent hurts his characterization a bit, even if he has some personality. In the fighting games, you are controlling Ichirin, not Unzan, and she has her own attacks. When characters talk to the duo, it is her that is being focused on and exchanging dialogues. You can actually get quite a lot from a character if you pay attention to what s/he is saying. At this point, it's absurd to say that Ichirin is less important and insignificant when compared to Unzan. Even if she does not have a whole lot of characterization, her having several expressions and saying lots of stuff in her appearances make her stand out more than Unzan, who pretty much lacks any form of expression other than looking angry. She rightfully earns her spot on the poll. Even if she is referred to as a hitbox by her creator, she still has her own character and backstory you cannot ignore completely. She has ascended from a hitbox into an actual character. And I'm saying this as someone who doesn't have a whole lot of interest in her. |
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